Mike Holder has FIVE WORDS for you... [Archive] - SoonerFans.com Message Boards

Mixer!

11/21/2006, 08:52 AM

http://www.newsok.com/article/2974958/

Mike Holder has a message for University of Oklahoma fans balking at paying top-dollar for Saturday's ****** matchup at Boone Pickens Stadium.

If you don't like it ...

"Good, stay home. Don't come," the Oklahoma State University athletic director said Monday. "I don't care if any of them show up. Just bring that football team out here."

"We're not going to discount any prices to try to fill (the stadium) up," Holder said. "If it doesn't sell out, it doesn't sell out. It's not the end of the world. We haven't sold out one all year.

"We don't rely on them for anything. Are you kidding me? Rely on OU?"

But THIS is the capper:

"It's a different world up here now," Holder said. "This isn't the same old Oklahoma State. Look in that (west) endzone. My gosh. Our tickets are less expensive than the ones at OU. They sell 84,000 of them. We should be able to sell 44,000.

"We're not going to cut ticket prices. If we want to compete with the best teams in this conference, we've got to increase our ticket prices. If we start winning, (fans) will come out."

Jesus Christ on a forklift, he has no f*cking clue. :stunned:

Flagstaffsooner

11/21/2006, 09:04 AM

That's some really deep aggy ****.

bri

11/21/2006, 09:10 AM

Sometimes, they really make it TOO easy.

They're not Lowered Expectations State for nothin', folks.

Flagstaffsooner

11/21/2006, 09:17 AM

Sometimes, they really make it TOO easy.

They're not Lowered Expectations State for nothin', folks.Yup you can't make this stuff up.

OklahomaTuba

11/21/2006, 09:26 AM

And thats the best AD T Boone's money could buy?

Wow.

OUDoc

11/21/2006, 09:29 AM

Somehow, not selling out a televised game is better for him.

$600 for a club-level seat for one game at an incomplete stadium that has yet to have a sellout this year?

OklahomaTuba

11/21/2006, 09:31 AM

Thats a half a years paycheck for the average aggot.

Maybe he meant he didn't care if OSU brought their fans, just their football team???

OUHOMER

11/21/2006, 09:41 AM

Are there tickets still available?

bri

11/21/2006, 09:42 AM

Somehow, not selling out a televised game is better for him.

You've gotta love aggy spite.

PhxSooner

11/21/2006, 09:46 AM

No chips on the shoulder here.:rolleyes: Maybe if Holder holds his hands over his ears and says "Nya, nya, I can't hear you" he'll feel better.

fwsooner22

11/21/2006, 09:49 AM

Are there tickets still available?

YES

OUHOMER

11/21/2006, 09:54 AM

may have to check it out. hard to believe, sad , really sad

tomtom

11/21/2006, 09:54 AM

very well put mixer on your comment about holder. he wantsto make a killing from ou fans and he scared off shaggie fans. see tulsa world sports section 11-21-06 go sooners

bri

11/21/2006, 09:54 AM

I would say that plenty of good seats are still available, but there are no "good seats" in that dump.

mxATVracer10

11/21/2006, 09:56 AM

heard on the radio this morning that there is at least 1500 of the $600 club level seats available. :stunned:

Just curious, but when did raising ticket prices make you more competitive in a sporting event????:bsmf:

Mjcpr

11/21/2006, 09:56 AM

I'm starting to think my hillbilly clan won't be the only group of Sooner fans at Boones Farm.

NormanPride

11/21/2006, 09:59 AM

1. **** off fans
2. Raise ticket prices
3. ????????
4. Profit!

OklahomaTuba

11/21/2006, 10:02 AM

1. **** off fans
2. Raise ticket prices
3. ????????
4. Profit!

You forgot the step that includes smoking T. Boones pole to build the idiots village.

Mixer!

11/21/2006, 10:17 AM

http://www.tulsaworld.com/SportsStory.asp?ID=061121_Sp_B1_Highe28742

"If anything, I underpriced the tickets," OSU athletic director Mike Holder said. "We're still seventh in the league in pricing, relative to our competitors. And we're in a stadium that in some cases seats half as many people.

"I wouldn't be satisfied with finishing in seventh place in the league. If we want to play with the elite football programs in the Big 12 Conference, then we need to price our product accordingly."

During his press conference on Monday, Cowboy coach Mike Gundy said he was not aware that OSU was offering ****** tickets priced at $250, $300 and $600.

"There are a lot of things that I have to worry about, and that's not one of them," he said. "That's somebody else's job. What we do is try to put a team on the field so that the six times we play (at Boone Pickens Stadium), people leave here and felt like they enjoyed the game and it's been worth coming to."
and the capper:

"We've all noticed the (empty) seats this year," Cowboy offensive tackle Corey Hilliard said. "It's kind of disheartening, but at the same time, all you can do is just go out there and play. I wish there were a way for our fans to be there without the high prices."

Said OSU linebacker Jeremy Nethon: "It's not about the fans that aren't there. It's about the fans that are there. We're playing for them and for our team."

Incredible. "Must make this much money in order to be an oSu fan."

God, I hate aggy...

I_SMELL_FEAR

11/21/2006, 10:19 AM

I get the feeling that TBone, Holder and the ****** Prez from Tech are going to start alienating a lot of their fans. They are basically taking the line that they could care less about the working man...if you dont have money, we dont need you.

BOOMERBRADLEY

11/21/2006, 10:21 AM

if you dont have money, we dont need you.

Well, in that case the stadium will have about 350 people in it

bri

11/21/2006, 10:23 AM

That many? Man, Atwoods must have a SWEET employee benefits package.

sooneron

11/21/2006, 10:29 AM

It sounds to me like Holder was tired of the stadium having so many OU fans so he made a certain number of tickets so expensive, no one in their right mind would justify going to that ****hole of a town. Then, osu can have some homefield advantage against OU.
It also sounds to me like Holder is retarded and possibly the most well suited AD that osu could have.

Landthief 1972

11/21/2006, 10:38 AM

oumartin

11/21/2006, 10:41 AM

I heard they were gonna let OSU fans bring sheep in to help fill the stadium but figured there might be more of the home team in the stands than on the field.

cvsooner

11/21/2006, 02:25 PM

I've got ten words for Mike Holder:

NOBODY WANTS TO BE AN OSU FAN AT ANY PRICE.

And especially over the century mark.

That's the obvious conclusion.

Ike

11/21/2006, 03:11 PM

I love aggie logic. Its so beautifully stupid.

fadada1

11/21/2006, 03:17 PM

it's funny how we, as humans, can perceive somebody's words so differently from one another. but when it comes to an aggie speaking, it seems the same to everyone - retarded.

OUstud

11/21/2006, 04:48 PM

"This isn't the same old Oklahoma State. Look in that (west) endzone."

That's pretty much all you need to know.

Hate Aggy week>Hate Texas week. So much funnier.

OSUAggie

11/21/2006, 05:09 PM

Pssst... hey Holder... OU's tickets may be pricier, but at least we don't make you inbred trailer trash fast food jockeys buy a packet of three tickets just to get a seat in our stadium, and you don't need a tetanus when you come to Owen Field.

So let's go out on a limb and say God turns his back for a second and OSU wins. The higher-tiered bowl reps who are at the game or watching on National TV look into the stands and see they can't even fill 44,000 seats for their biggest conference game of the year against their in-state rival. Boy, nothing tells a bowl committee "won't travel well" better than that! Way to go Aggies! Pistol Pete shoots himself in the foot for the umpteenth time this year!

OU got their allotment and their fans had an opportunity to buy a ticket for the OSU game just like any other visiting school. The 3-ticket package wasn't to rid the stadium of OU fans on gameday, but to include an affordable "short season" option instead of purchasing season tickets for the entire year. The club seats are worth their price... We allow booze in our club seating/suites.

BOOMERBRADLEY

11/21/2006, 05:12 PM

We allow booze in our club seating/suites.

To numb the pain from all of osu's losses ?

Readyfor8

11/21/2006, 05:13 PM

OU got their allotment and their fans had an opportunity to buy a ticket for the OSU game just like any other visiting school. The 3-ticket package wasn't to rid the stadium of OU fans on gameday, but to include an affordable "short season" option instead of purchasing season tickets for the entire year. The club seats are worth their price... We allow booze in our club seating/suites.

We allow booze in our suites too. And don't pretend like OSU is selling those "short season" packages for anyone but OU fans.

You should ask your AD how he justifies expanding a stadium and funding a team that the fanbase only follows for one game a year. Your stadium is only used for Orange Peel and OU games, 3 times every 2 years is kinda pathetic.

Landthief 1972

11/21/2006, 05:20 PM

OU got their allotment and their fans had an opportunity to buy a ticket for the OSU game just like any other visiting school. The 3-ticket package wasn't to rid the stadium of OU fans on gameday, but to include an affordable "short season" option instead of purchasing season tickets for the entire year. The club seats are worth their price... We allow booze in our club seating/suites.

Great... you gonna give the bowl reps a stiff drink? That's the only way you'll convince them that OSU would be a good bowl team. Imagine the Holiday Bowl or Cotton Bowl reps looking up into the stands and seeing 5,000+ empty seats. At ******. For a game that has conference champ implications. And BCS implications. And the difference between a lower-tier payout, and a middle-tier payout.

You completely missed the point. Mike Holder is going to screw OSU out of better bowl money because he'll be damned if he'll admit that his pricing scale is completely out of whack for a football school of OSU's caliber. But be proud! He may be an idiot, but he's YOUR idiot!

StuIsTheMan

11/21/2006, 05:21 PM

Well it gives their girlfriends...I mean herds somewhere to graze in between classes...

OSUAggie

11/21/2006, 05:30 PM

We allow booze in our suites too. And don't pretend like OSU is selling those "short season" packages for anyone but OU fans.

You should ask your AD how he justifies expanding a stadium and funding a team that the fanbase only follows for one game a year. Your stadium is only used for Orange Peel and OU games, 3 times every 2 years is kinda pathetic.

Quit giving yourselves so much credit. OSU doesn't predicate its success on beating OU. Success is determined based on meeting/exceeding expectations laid forth by the coaching staff/players. The team had 3 goals coming into the year... 1. Win the Big XII South 2. Go to a bowl 3. Beat OU. They have an opportunity to fulfill 2 of those 3 goals. At the very least, they will have fulfilled 1 of their 3 goals, which definitely doesn't lead to exuberance, but it does lend credence to the fact that the program is moving forward.

I expect that next year's team will share the same three goals of this year’s team, and until said goals are met, the expectations will not be any higher for OSU football teams in the future.

Before you people go off on the fact that beating OU is a goal of the team, attempt to step out of your own shoes and view the situation from a different perspective. Oklahoma has many rivals (Texas, Nebraska, OSU) and other teams that their fanbase generally hates (K-State, aTm, Colorado). OSU has 1 rival. That rival is a school that is the epitome of a successful college football program.

It's extremely difficult to compete on the same level as Oklahoma (in football) when there are two major institutions in a state of just a few million people. OSU has laid forth its plan to gain and sustain success in all sports, including football. The goals of the athletic department and the goals of SOME of the fanbase aren't necessarily identical. In general, Oklahoma State fans would prefer a 10-2 season and a loss to Oklahoma over a 7-5 season and a victory over Oklahoma. To illustrate this, most Oklahoma State fans look back @ the 2003 OSU team (9-4 and got drilled by OU) more fondly than they do the 2002 OSU team (8-5 and beat OU handily).

Sorry about the length... Just trying to clarify.

tulsaoilerfan

11/21/2006, 05:30 PM

They should have to pay us to come to that dump of a stadium to watch a game, even if it is the Sooners.

tulsaoilerfan

11/21/2006, 05:32 PM

Quit giving yourselves so much credit. OSU doesn't predicate its success on beating OU. Success is determined based on meeting/exceeding expectations laid forth by the coaching staff/players. The team had 3 goals coming into the year... 1. Win the Big XII South 2. Go to a bowl 3. Beat OU. They have an opportunity to fulfill 2 of those 3 goals. At the very least, they will have fulfilled 1 of their 3 goals, which definitely doesn't lead to exuberance, but it does lend credence to the fact that the program is moving forward.

I expect that next year's team will share the same three goals of this year’s team, and until said goals are met, the expectations will not be any higher for OSU football teams in the future.

Before you people go off on the fact that beating OU is a goal of the team, attempt to step out of your own shoes and view the situation from a different perspective. Oklahoma has many rivals (Texas, Nebraska, OSU) and other teams that their fanbase generally hates (K-State, aTm, Colorado). OSU has 1 rival. That rival is a school that is the epitome of a successful college football program.

It's extremely difficult to compete on the same level as Oklahoma (in football) when there are two major institutions in a state of just a few million people. OSU has laid forth its plan to gain and sustain success in all sports, including football. The goals of the athletic department and the goals of SOME of the fanbase aren't necessarily identical. In general, Oklahoma State fans would prefer a 10-2 season and a loss to Oklahoma over a 7-5 season and a victory over Oklahoma. To illustrate this, most Oklahoma State fans look back @ the 2003 OSU team (9-4 and got drilled by OU) more fondly than they do the 2002 OSU team (8-5 and beat OU handily).

Sorry about the length... Just trying to clarify.
If that's true, then where are all the t-shirts talking about that great 9-4 team in 2003? The only OSU t-shirts i ever see are when they beat OU. :pop:

Gandalf_The_Grey

11/21/2006, 05:33 PM

Question...wouldn't an empty seats during your biiggest rivalry game imply to recruits that your fan base doesn't care about its players?

OSUAggie

11/21/2006, 05:36 PM

Great... you gonna give the bowl reps a stiff drink? That's the only way you'll convince them that OSU would be a good bowl team. Imagine the Holiday Bowl or Cotton Bowl reps looking up into the stands and seeing 5,000+ empty seats. At ******. For a game that has conference champ implications. And BCS implications. And the difference between a lower-tier payout, and a middle-tier payout.

You completely missed the point. Mike Holder is going to screw OSU out of better bowl money because he'll be damned if he'll admit that his pricing scale is completely out of whack for a football school of OSU's caliber. But be proud! He may be an idiot, but he's YOUR idiot!

You're wrong on a few points...

1. Holiday and Cotton Bowl reps, if at the game, will be there for OU, not OSU.

2. There won't be anywhere near 5,000 empty seats. The only empty seats at the game will be club level seats on the north side. 2 sections of them on the East and West ends. Maybe 500 seats.

3. The football budget is already 1,000,000 greater than it was last year, and there's still the OU game remaining. That is greater than the difference between a lower-tier bowl and a middle-tier bowl.

4. Holder is setting the bar for OSU ticket pricing. Fans will adjust to that bar. I respect someone that sticks to their plan, regardless of whether or not I agree with their ideals.

OSUAggie

11/21/2006, 05:38 PM

If that's true, then where are all the t-shirts talking about that great 9-4 team in 2003? The only OSU t-shirts i ever see are when they beat OU. :pop:

I don't know. I don't own "season" or "game" shirts.

OSUAggie

11/21/2006, 05:40 PM

Question...wouldn't an empty seats during your biiggest rivalry game imply to recruits that your fan base doesn't care about its players?

I don't know, we'll see. I've heard that Christian Scott will be up there, so I guess his decision will tell us something about that.

Readyfor8

11/21/2006, 05:44 PM

By your anology, if OSU was in Texas, The Dallas Cowboys would be your rival. You aren't on the same level as us, and just because you are in the same state it doesn't make you a rival.

BlondeSoonerGirl

11/21/2006, 05:47 PM

I just wanted to post in a thread where someone said 'Jesus Christ on a forklift'.

Carry on...

bri

11/21/2006, 05:47 PM

Quit giving yourselves so much credit. OSU doesn't predicate its success on beating OU.

So THAT'S why they made "12-0" medallions and handed them out during graduation in 1996. Because you just didn't care that you beat OU.

Sooner_Bob

11/21/2006, 05:55 PM

That many? Man, Atwoods must have a SWEET employee benefits package.

Well there is that new Linens 'N Things, Belk and Petco across the street from Atwoods.

OSUAggie

11/21/2006, 05:55 PM

So THAT'S why they made "12-0" medallions and handed them out during graduation in 1996. Because you just didn't care that you beat OU.

I think 12-0 in 1995 was a bit different in the sense that we hadn't beat OU since '76. It's ghey, I'll admit, but very different circumstances, I think.

Sooner_Bob

11/21/2006, 05:56 PM

no one in their right mind would justify going to that ****hole of a town.

Ok, for the record . . . I'm tired of this crap. Stillwater is not a ****hole of a town just because "the state's university" is located here. :mad:

Mjcpr

11/21/2006, 05:57 PM

Ok, for the record . . . I'm tired of this crap. Stillwater is not a ****hole of a town just because "the state's university" is located here. :mad:

Then why is it?

bri

11/21/2006, 05:57 PM

I think 12-0 in 1995 was a bit different in the sense that we hadn't beat OU since '76. It's ghey, I'll admit, but very different circumstances, I think.

Yes, you print a t-shirt for that. You don't PRESS MEDALLIONS AND HAND THEM OUT WITH THE DIPLOMAS. That says everything you need to know about your school's teeny, tiny peenie.

Landthief 1972

11/21/2006, 05:58 PM

You're wrong on a few points...

1. Holiday and Cotton Bowl reps, if at the game, will be there for OU, not OSU.

2. There won't be anywhere near 5,000 empty seats. The only empty seats at the game will be club level seats on the north side. 2 sections of them on the East and West ends. Maybe 500 seats.

3. The football budget is already 1,000,000 greater than it was last year, and there's still the OU game remaining. That is greater than the difference between a lower-tier bowl and a middle-tier bowl.

4. Holder is setting the bar for OSU ticket pricing. Fans will adjust to that bar. I respect someone that sticks to their plan, regardless of whether or not I agree with their ideals.

1. Good point. Okay, Houston Bowl? Smurfturf Bowl?

2. So all the 3-ticket packages sold?

3. How much of that budget comes thanks to Nose Pickens vs. actual ticket sales increases?

4. I think it's pointless to raise the bar when you can't even sell out more than half of your home games, and your team yo-yos from 4-7 seasons to 9-4 seasons from year to year.

bri

11/21/2006, 05:59 PM

Ok, for the record . . . I'm tired of this crap. Stillwater is not a ****hole of a town just because "the state's university" is located here. :mad:

Dude.

http://static.flickr.com/96/247492182_ab3f624842.jpg

You just put the "horribly misguided" in "horribly misguided civic pride". :D

Sooner_Bob

11/21/2006, 06:00 PM

Then why is it?

Why I oughta . . .

Sooner_Bob

11/21/2006, 06:01 PM

Dude.

http://static.flickr.com/96/247492182_ab3f624842.jpg

You just put the "horribly misguided" in "horribly misguided civic pride". :D

Heh . . . you thought she made that look good and you know it. :)

Ike

11/21/2006, 06:02 PM

You're wrong on a few points...

4. Holder is setting the bar for OSU ticket pricing. Fans will adjust to that bar. I respect someone that sticks to their plan, regardless of whether or not I agree with their ideals.

You're wrong here. This is aggieconomics plain and simple. Toss out supply and demand and pretend that everything is hunky dory. When it comes to sports, The ONLY way to make money, and more of it, is to expand your fanbase. This is accomplished in two ways (which in the best years compliment each other).
#1 - put a quality product on the field. Nobody comes to see a stadium. People come to see a team, and people like to come and see a winning team, or at the very least, a team that has a chance to win in every single game. This also helps land you on national TV more often. Sure, new stadiums often give a team a shot in the arm as far as attendance goes, but that doesn't last very long.
#2 - under-price your tickets. Not necessarily to the point where you take a loss, but to the point that there is far more demand than supply. The fans will thank you for it, often in the form of buying other team related items. If you are bilking them at the gate just for coming to the game, you can bet that they aren't going to want to buy a Jersey for their kid so that he can grow up being a fan of your university too.

The path you agroids are going down will only have the effect of spiraling your football program down the toilet. Recruits will be less inclined to go there when they visit and see the empty seats in the stadium, and as you lose out on recruits, fans will be less and less inclined to shell out that much money to see a crappy team.

OSUAggie

11/21/2006, 06:02 PM

1. Good point. Okay, Houston Bowl? Smurfturf Bowl?

Independence has already stated that OSU is their 1st choice. "Houston" Bowl is now Texas Bowl, I believe. Indy or Texas Bowl is where OSU will go.

2. So all the 3-ticket packages sold?

Yeah. Probably a lot to OU fans.

3. How much of that budget comes thanks to Nose Pickens vs. actual ticket sales increases?

Pickens' donation is only for construction, not for operational budget. Only what he pays for his suite is going towards the budget.

4. I think it's pointless to raise the bar when you can't even sell out more than half of your home games, and your team yo-yos from 4-7 seasons to 9-4 seasons from year to year.

We'll see. Definitely risky.

soonersam

11/21/2006, 06:11 PM

its hard to believe that anyone from OSU can be cocky like that.. he does realize he's talking about Oklahoma state right???

Is he wanting OU to apologize for selling out 85,000 plus every week?

roostercogburn

11/21/2006, 06:11 PM

osu....................MEDIOCRITY at it's finest.:cool:

jwlynn64

11/21/2006, 06:16 PM

4. Holder is setting the bar for OSU ticket pricing. Fans will adjust to that bar. I respect someone that sticks to their plan, regardless of whether or not I agree with their ideals.

Do you seriously believe that? Your pricing is way out of whack with other programs. I understand that you want to get a certain amount of donations but sell your product first, then the donations will come.

I'm not saying that OU's way is best but they give priority to the highest donors (with exceptions). That way all the tickets are given out even if some of the tickets go to non donors.

Gandalf_The_Grey

11/21/2006, 06:22 PM

This is what I think when reading Holder speak

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c386/kfassanella/pancakes.jpg

GrapevineSooner

11/21/2006, 06:27 PM

Seems like Mike Holder should have attended the Mark Cuban school of marketing.

OSUAggie

11/21/2006, 06:37 PM

Ike,

There are more than 2 ways to run a financially successful football program. Holder's approach has set OSU ticket prices in the MIDDLE of the Big XII. Most non-biased observations would put OSU's football success in the past 5-10 years in the middle of the Big XII. Granted, the timing (coming off a 4-7 season) was less than perfect, but I respect someone that is attempting to develop an attitude among its donors/ticket holders and not changing his mindset during the season.

JW

I believe Holder's strategy (in football) is based solely on the continued progression of the program under Gundy. If strides cease to be made, then yeah, it's a bad strategy. He obviously believes more success is to come, and if that comes to fruition then his strategy will work. I believe that the pieces are in place to make major strides. Time will tell whether or not that happens.

Ike

11/21/2006, 06:47 PM

Ike,

There are more than 2 ways to run a financially successful football program. Holder's approach has set OSU ticket prices in the MIDDLE of the Big XII. Most non-biased observations would put OSU's football success in the past 5-10 years in the middle of the Big XII. Granted, the timing (coming off a 4-7 season) was less than perfect, but I respect someone that is attempting to develop an attitude among its donors/ticket holders and not changing his mindset during the season.

The thing is, nobody (in anything) can expect to have any kind of financial success when they price their product higher than the market will bear. And nobody produces a good product by demanding that their customers (fans) pay more for a mediocre product. It's not just a risky strategy, It's a losing one. Mark it down. I predict 2 things (and you can hold me to this later) will happen because of this strategy. 1) If in 5 years, OSU has not lowered the ticket prices, ticket sales will decrease by AT LEAST 20%. 2) If in 5 years, OSU has not lowered ticket prices, the football team will be surpassed in the Big XII standings by the Baylor Bears.

Gandalf_The_Grey

11/21/2006, 06:50 PM

OSUAggie

11/21/2006, 06:51 PM

The thing is, nobody (in anything) can expect to have any kind of financial success when they price their product higher than the market will bear. And nobody produces a good product by demanding that their customers (fans) pay more for a mediocre product. It's not just a risky strategy, It's a losing one. Mark it down. I predict 2 things (and you can hold me to this later) will happen because of this strategy. 1) If in 5 years, OSU has not lowered the ticket prices, ticket sales will decrease by AT LEAST 20%. 2) If in 5 years, OSU has not lowered ticket prices, the football team will be surpassed in the Big XII standings by the Baylor Bears.

noted... is that 20% in # of tickets sold or %?

Ike

11/21/2006, 06:53 PM

noted... is that 20% in # of tickets sold or %?
20 % fewer tickets sold meaning that if they average 35,000 per game this year, in five years it will be less than 28,000 fans per game. Of course, if they lower ticket prices (as I suspect they will be forced to do before the end of a 5 year period), this number changes.

OSUAggie

11/21/2006, 06:54 PM

wow.... ok, that's pretty bold... i'll keep it in mind

Ike

11/21/2006, 06:57 PM

I know its bold, and I may even be talking out of my *** on this one, but I just don't think that the market will bear a mediocre product at such high ticket prices. fans will stop showing up, and recruiting will get tougher.

OSUAggie

11/21/2006, 06:59 PM

The problem is that he is running the program on a business model. It's like the Yankess can go out and buy better players, hence people will enjoy watching them play more because they will be more successful. In college athletics, it is more causation than investment. Look at Rutgers, stadium is suddenly packed, loud, and a great environment, now did that happen because Rutgers have raised ticket prices up to where they are an elite Big east Program or because their coach has slowly recruited more successful players who have won enough games that fans are actually interested. What they should do is get the house full and rocking and then worry about ticket prices. I would go as far as to give away free tickets to the local high schools so you can get a louder and younger audience at the games. In College athletics, success breeds money not the other way around.

While I generally agree with this, I don't know that it's really possible to compare the current situation @ OSU with anything else in the history of college football, or college athletics, for that matter. I mean, the facilities and structure of the entire athletic department will be 180 degrees from the previous decade within 5 years. If this has been done before, I haven't heard of it.

The football program, specifically, will have gone from easily the worst facilities in the conference to the top tier (OU, UT, Nebraska, A&M). The higher-ups are taking unique approaches in an effort to attract athletes (legally) that wouldn't have previously even considered OSU.

I think Holder's plan needs more time to prove itself (positive or negative) than 11 games and a halfway completed stadium. Not to mention the practice facilities are another few years from completion.

Gandalf_The_Grey

11/21/2006, 07:05 PM

I don't care how nice your facilities are...Tell me a kid that goes to an A&M game and a kid that goes to an OSU game...who is going to be more impressed?

OSUAggie

11/21/2006, 07:09 PM

Readyfor8

11/21/2006, 07:14 PM

While I generally agree with this, I don't know that it's really possible to compare the current situation @ OSU with anything else in the history of college football, or college athletics, for that matter. I mean, the facilities and structure of the entire athletic department will be 180 degrees from the previous decade within 5 years. If this has been done before, I haven't heard of it.

The football program, specifically, will have gone from easily the worst facilities in the conference to the top tier (OU, UT, Nebraska, A&M). The higher-ups are taking unique approaches in an effort to attract athletes (legally) that wouldn't have previously even considered OSU.

I think Holder's plan needs more time to prove itself (positive or negative) than 11 games and a halfway completed stadium. Not to mention the practice facilities are another few years from completion.

Do you think facilities translate into success? While you may pull in that odd 5 star player because he likes the weight room, you aren't going to be putting butts in the seats without winning games.

You pulled in your best wide reciever ever and your best running back ever without those facilities, and these facilities aren't going to turn L's into W's. Win games then spend the money from winning those games. 100 million dollars is nice, but it should have come to keep your god send lester the molester at OSU, you need a Bowden, Snyder, or Paterno. You need to turn OSU from a stepping stone into a career institution.

OSUAggie

11/21/2006, 07:23 PM

Stoop Dawg

11/21/2006, 07:26 PM

The thing is, nobody (in anything) can expect to have any kind of financial success when they price their product higher than the market will bear.

What do you use to evaluate "what the market will bear"?

On the face of it, the fact that they never sell out would make you think that they tickets are already over-priced. However, as you point out, not all consumers are price driven. There may well be a significant population willing to attend if there are nicer facilities. Starbucks doesn't make superior coffee, they sell a superior experience.

Now, I'm not sure OSU can manufacture a "superior experience" using only higher ticket prices and a fresh coat of paint, but it's not a guaranteed loser of a strategy.

And nobody produces a good product by demanding that their customers (fans) pay more for a mediocre product.

Really? Lexus? Acura? These products are not mediocre, per se, but they are no better than their less expensive counterparts (Toyota, Honda). What they really provide is status. And what is OSU really looking for here?

Readyfor8

11/21/2006, 07:28 PM

Our best WR and best RB ever aren't really very good arguments about recruiting. If by best WR ever you mean Woods, he wasn't really highly recruited. If you mean Dykes, we cheated our a$$es off to get him (as did you and the Illini). Sanders was offered a scholly by TU, the Kansas schools and Iowa State.

Facilities do impress higher profile recruits. The way our players eat impresses recruits. Better recruits generally translates into more wins. It's a plausible strategy. We'll see if it works.

You aren't going to land the Adrian Peterson or Tommy Harris of the world without winning games, no matter how nice your bowflex is, thats what I am saying.

Facilities are nice, so is Tradition, Atmosphere, TV Time, Academics, and over all respect for your program.

So far you are 1 for 6 compared to the big boys of the Big XII.

Gandalf_The_Grey

11/21/2006, 07:28 PM

First of all, Ball State's recruits probably eat pretty good. Big recruits are also going to see that your last 10 or so HUGE recruits have panned out to be nothing. You think opposing coaches don't defensive lineman stuff like "Go to OsU and you will end up out of shape and undisciplined just like Xavier Lawson Kennedy.

OSUAggie

11/21/2006, 07:32 PM

OSUAggie

11/21/2006, 07:33 PM

You aren't going to land the Adrian Peterson or Tommy Harris of the world without winning games, no matter how nice your bowflex is, thats what I am saying.

Facilities are nice, so is Tradition, Atmosphere, TV Time, Academics, and over all respect for your program.

So far you are 1 for 6 compared to the big boys of the Big XII.

I think we're @ 0/6 right now... facilities aren't there yet... and you have to start somewhere... Easier to blame the guy not winning if he has all the tools in place with which he can win.

Gandalf_The_Grey

11/21/2006, 07:36 PM

Good point but Jamal Williams was a Simmon's recruit if I am not mistaken. and Kevin Williams was developed under Les Miles, who by the way was the best thing you guys could have had.

Readyfor8

11/21/2006, 07:37 PM

In other words....

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/8163/untitledbd0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

OSUAggie

11/21/2006, 07:39 PM

Good point but Jamal Williams was a Simmon's recruit if I am not mistaken. and Kevin Williams was developed under Les Miles, who by the way was the best thing you guys could have had.

Kevin Williams was made by Karl Dunbar (now working with the Vikings, I believe). Jamal Williams was a Simmons recruit but Gundy hasn't really flopped with any big-time D-Line recruits... XLK was a Miles guy, and he's actually done a pretty good job this year.

OSUAggie

11/21/2006, 07:40 PM

In other words....

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/8163/untitledbd0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

heh

Gandalf_The_Grey

11/21/2006, 07:42 PM

Scott D

11/21/2006, 07:43 PM

Right now, what OSU sells is snake oil and hair gel...

:D

OSUAggie

11/21/2006, 07:49 PM

The thing with Lester though is that he instilled an attitude at OsU that you guys weren't going to back down from anyone. He didn't want to beat OU, he wanted to beat Texas, A&M, and everyone else. He brought the one thing that Gundy and your fanbase currently lack and that is passion.

Right. I believe he was going to take on any sucker or something to that effect. That, and the fact that he still hasn't learned all the plays, is the only thing that bothers me about Gundy. When he was playing, he never beat OU or Nebraska (our only hurdles in the Big 8), and he always choked against them. If not for all his picks in '88, OSU probably beats OU. He also threw a couple of pick-6's to RD in the 4th quarter in '87, as well.

Mixer!

11/21/2006, 07:51 PM

Gandalf_The_Grey

11/21/2006, 07:54 PM

I am not saying that Lester didn't say some stupid stuff but if the 86 Bears lined up across from his team, I don't think he would blink twice. That is what OsU needs, they need someone who expects his team to perform and is willing to light a fire under people. Look at OU, we only got better because we got a no nonsense guy who expected to win every time out.

OSUAggie

11/21/2006, 08:00 PM

I realize your point. I think Gundy still needs some time, as does pretty much the entire OSU athletic department. It's all kinda wait and see at this point. Gundy has a plan, but I'm just not sure if it's any good. I don't mind his attitude at all. He expects to win every game and is a bit cocky and generally well spoken. Those traits are fine with me.

Readyfor8

11/21/2006, 08:05 PM

You need to find the next Mike Leach and keep him.

Gandalf_The_Grey

11/21/2006, 08:54 PM

"We've all noticed the (empty) seats this year," Cowboy offensive tackle Corey Hilliard said. "It's kind of disheartening, but at the same time, all you can do is just go out there and play. I wish there were a way for our fans to be there without the high prices."

It is effecting the current players..how is it not going to effect recruiting?

Cam

11/21/2006, 09:48 PM

4. I think it's pointless to raise the bar when you can't even sell out A home game, and your team yo-yos from 4-7 seasons to 9-4 seasons from year to year.
Fixed

StormySooner-IN

11/21/2006, 10:01 PM

LOL. That is rich stuff right there, thanks for sharing.:D

MikeInNorman

11/22/2006, 12:59 PM

Holder doesn't care about Aggy people.

OUDoc

11/22/2006, 01:49 PM

Holder doesn't care about Aggy people.
Who does?

OSUAggie

11/22/2006, 01:51 PM

George Bush

OUDoc

11/22/2006, 01:56 PM

George Bush
Wrong aggy.

Paperclip

11/22/2006, 01:57 PM

He also threw a couple of pick-6's to RD in the 4th quarter in '87, as well.

I think one of those was to Troy Johnson. Although Rickey certainly had to run a lot farther for his.

I_SMELL_FEAR

11/22/2006, 02:43 PM

it depends on the kid.. if the kid wants to play in front of 85,000, he'll go to aTm, but if that doesn't matter to him, then he'll go to OSU...

Right now, what OSU sells is playing time and how they treat their players...

thats a good point, because I hear all the time from the UT, aTm and OU players of how crappy they are treated, and how if they had only gone to osu, they would have been treated nice.

and there is a lot more to it than playing in front of 85,000...like play for a championship, play in a big rivalry game, play on TV etc.

Seems to me, that players that go to a program like osu for just a few reasons.

A. Scared of competition at their position.
B. Grew up an osu fan, always wanted to play for osu
C. Have no aspirations of playing really big time college football
D. Didnt get as much love during recruiting that they thought they deserved from the other schools.

I really dont think your facilities are going to help land a big recruit. Bad facilities might hurt you, but most big time programs facilities are pretty close and I just dont see that being a major role in the decision...unless, like I said, the facilities are bad.

OSUAggie

11/22/2006, 02:49 PM

and there is a lot more to it than playing in front of 85,000...like play for a championship, play in a big rivalry game, play on TV etc.

aTm has that?

Gandalf_The_Grey

11/22/2006, 04:07 PM

Let's just say great teams have lost or been challenged in Kyle. A&M has been down for a couple of years but they are an away game no one in this country absolutely wants to play. Plus their games with Tech, OU, and Texas are all big time games.

I_SMELL_FEAR

11/22/2006, 04:12 PM

they played for the Big 12 championship and lost in 97, won it in 98.

the Tejas game is a pretty big rivalry. Isnt it?

and they get their share of TV time.

not as much as some other schools, but, yes they do have that to a degree. More so than osu anyway.

stoopified

11/22/2006, 04:41 PM

Quit giving yourselves so much credit. OSU doesn't predicate its success on beating OU.

Previously the biggest lie ever told by cowpukes was:Honest,I was only helping that sheep over the fence.The above statement however takes the prize.This poster is either brain-dead or in EXTREME denial.THE whole of the BIG 12 KNOWS that osu has as its number one priority above else :BEAT OU,all else is gravy.Most of their fans freely admit that BEATING OU makes their season.Not winning championships,not going to bowl games JUST BEATING OU.

jwlynn64

11/22/2006, 05:53 PM

Actually, if you gear your program to beat OU, you will probably end up with a pretty good product. That is why I have come to the conclusion at just this instant that Aggy does not have beating OU as it's first priority.

Since the road to the Big XII south championship runs down I-35 through Norman and Austin, I don't think that they actually have winning the South as a priority either.

OSUAggie, what is your top priority?