It's 1938

[Oldnslo]

Some members of my congregation went to hear Netanyahu speak. His theme, often repeated, was, "It's 1938 and Iran is Germany."


Discuss.

[Tear Down This Wall]

McCain is a loudcrapper?

[Fugue]

Isreal waits until the last minute possible and starts blowing sheet up in Iran?

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I TIVOed Glenn Beck last night. I think he is saying the same thing. I think he interviews Netanyahu tomorrow.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Isreal waits until the last minute possible and starts blowing sheet up in Iran?

Hoping so, they are the only country with the guts. I hope they use nuked tip bunker busters...

[Oldnslo]

Apparently, Israel is hoping for a US-led coalition. It seems that Israel feels that the reason that they're a target is because they are Western. Should Israel fall, Islam will find some other Western target.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I saw a Glenn Beck special show about jihaad yesterday. He interviewed Netanyahou(sp?) and said the same thing. Iran has endless money, with their oil.

[OklahomaTuba]

Islam targets Islam nearly everyday as it is.

[OklahomaTuba]

If Bush lets Iran have a bomb and does nothing, he should be removed from office.

We should have begun bombing the **** out of Iran a long time ago. Unfortunatly, if Israel does it, they may not last very long as they aren't as strong as they used to be.

[JohnnyMack]

Scare tactics. Mostly.

[SoonerProphet]

When is Leni Riefenstahl going to do the documentary on Ahmajinidad?

Sounds like typical PNAC bullsh*t.

[OklahomaTuba]

Scare tactics. Mostly.

Of course!

Nevermind the statements from the president and mullahs of Iran that they will wipe israel off the face of the earth, all the while building a nuke program.

[KABOOKIE]

When is Leni Riefenstahl going to do the documentary on Ahmajinidad?

Sounds like typical PNAC bullsh*t.


Which is why I call bull**** because Tehran didn't host the Olympics 2 years ago!

[OklahomaTuba]

You know, it is amazing how similar the SS and Hezbollah are.

No wonder so many liberals and euros want to appease them so much.

[Xstnlsooner]

I have always thought pretty highly of Netanyahu. He's a hawk,
that's for sure and how he lost power in Israel, but there will be
no appeasing of the Palestinians nor of Islam. It's almost like the
dialectic of communism, they posture on the surface, but behind
closed doors, they make plans.

[SoonerProphet]

You know, it is amazing how similar the SS and Hezbollah are.

No wonder so many liberals and euros want to appease them so much.

What? One is the epitome of state power and police control, the other is a state-less organization that has zero power.

[SoonerBorn68]

Scare tactics. Mostly.

I'd like to see some elaboration on that.

I believe it's deja vu 1938 simply because many people think it's scare tactics. Since we now live in a "civilized world" a majority of the people have a false since of security. I'm willing to bet most people believe the old "it won't happen to me" line. This Iranian fockturd believes in the 12th Ahmam (or however the hell you spell it) and believes it's his destiny to bring him back. The only way that happens, according to the Koran, is a massive war killing millions. If the dude's left to be he'll find a way to start it--impressively.

Diplomacy will be futile with these people since they believe in the Calafate--the practice of appeasing your enemies with words but doing whatever you have to do behind their backs to win. Lying is forbidden in Islam, except Calafate. I'd say that would be a great barginning chip. We'll sign a treaty but we have no intentions of keeping it. Sound like 1938?

[SoonerBorn68]

What? One is the epitome of state power and police control, the other is a state-less organization that has zero power.

I think you highly underestimate their abilities.

[OklahomaTuba]

What? One is the epitome of state power and police control, the other is a state-less organization that has zero power.

Hezbollah is a state-less organization with zero power?

Guess you missed that recent war over the summer huh? :confused:

[WILBURJIM]

What? One is the epitome of state power and police control, the other is a state-less organization that has zero power.

Well, the SS existed before they came to power. Iran(translated: land of the Aryans) is named as such, because the shah was loving the whole nazi supremist thing in the 1930s. hezballah is sponsored by Iran. They speak of themselves as belonging to the islamic republic. Not a seperate entity. Stateless? Not that simple.

[JohnnyMack]

Of course!

Nevermind the statements from the president and mullahs of Iran that they will wipe israel off the face of the earth, all the while building a nuke program.

No I just meant that Iran's aspirations aren't towards global conquest as were Hitler's. The "final solution" wasn't really implemented at the outset of WWII, but by 1942 it was fully in gear. Now I'll give you that as early as 1933 the Third Reich was harrassing, boycotting, exporting, etc. Jews out of Germany, but the notion of wiping the Jews off the face of the earth wasn't really something that was addressed until 1941. So Hitler didn't start WWII to wipe the Jews out, rather it grew out of surging Nationalism and an old fashioned power grab. Hitler wanted back what was lost at Versailles.

That's why I think comparing the Third Reich to Iran is silly.

Ask me if I think Iran should be stopped. That would be a better question.

[JohnnyMack]

I'd like to see some elaboration on that.

I believe it's deja vu 1938 simply because many people think it's scare tactics. Since we now live in a "civilized world" a majority of the people have a false since of security. I'm willing to bet most people believe the old "it won't happen to me" line. This Iranian fockturd believes in the 12th Ahmam (or however the hell you spell it) and believes it's his destiny to bring him back. The only way that happens, according to the Koran, is a massive war killing millions. If the dude's left to be he'll find a way to start it--impressively.

Diplomacy will be futile with these people since they believe in the Calafate--the practice of appeasing your enemies with words but doing whatever you have to do behind their backs to win. Lying is forbidden in Islam, except Calafate. I'd say that would be a great barginning chip. We'll sign a treaty but we have no intentions of keeping it. Sound like 1938?

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1661090&postcount=21

[SoonerBorn68]

I'll agree with you JM in the sense that Germany's final solution was a work in progress and the Nazi's were bent on Nationalism. However, both Germany and Iran both had/have the same goal--world domination (secular vs. religous) and eradication of the Jews.

[SoonerProphet]

The SS was the secret police in Nazi Germany...the SAVAK might be comparable or even the current VEVAK. Hezbollah performs no similiar function inside the Iranian government.

Claiming that Hezbollah and the SS are alike in ideology or function is not accurate.

[JohnnyMack]

Claiming that Hezbollah and the SS are alike in ideology or function is not accurate.

Buzz off, we're not looking for accurate, we need scare tactics.

[SoonerBorn68]

After thinking about it some more, Iran and Japan draw closer comparisons.

Both Japan and Iran became the dominant power in their region.

Both had/has the major influence in said region.

Japan had Bushido--Iran, Islam. Of course Bushido was a morph of nationalism & religion, but both were/are fanatical practitioners.

Both claimed the West was unfair in it's assesment of them--meaning they were/are considered second tier countries & wanted to be players. Japan after defeating Russia in 1905 and Iran after the fall of Saddam.

Both had/has sactions put upon them by the West.

Japan has and Iran will inflict a major attack on the US without warning.

[WILBURJIM]

The SS was the secret police in Nazi Germany...the SAVAK might be comparable or even the current VEVAK. Hezbollah performs no similiar function inside the Iranian government.

Claiming that Hezbollah and the SS are alike in ideology or function is not accurate.

Both used violence and the threat of violence to get what they want.

[SoonerBorn68]

Buzz off, we're not looking for accurate, we need scare tactics.

Dude, I'm looking to scare anyone. I see Iran to be a major threat with a nutbag in charge. If you want to live in bliss & turn a blind eye, more power to ya.

[SoonerProphet]

After thinking about it some more, Iran and Japan draw closer comparisons.

Both Japan and Iran became the dominant power in their region.

Both had/has the major influence in said region.

Japan had Bushido--Iran, Islam. Of course Bushido was a morph of nationalism & religion, but both were/are fanatical practitioners.

Both claimed the West was unfair in it's assesment of them--meaning they were/are considered second tier countries & wanted to be players. Japan after defeating Russia in 1905 and Iran after the fall of Saddam.

Both had/has sactions put upon them by the West.

Japan has and Iran will inflict a major attack on the US without warning.

I'll go with that, but I'd add that nationalist sentiment far and away outweighs that of religion. Nationalism was the primary engine of outward aggression in Germany and Japan and we would be wise to recognize this as the primary engine of aggression of the Persians as well.

[SoonerProphet]

Both used violence and the threat of violence to get what they want.

You can say that about the Likudniks and PNACers too.

[Harry Beanbag]

No I just meant that Iran's aspirations aren't towards global conquest as were Hitler's. The "final solution" wasn't really implemented at the outset of WWII, but by 1942 it was fully in gear. Now I'll give you that as early as 1933 the Third Reich was harrassing, boycotting, exporting, etc. Jews out of Germany, but the notion of wiping the Jews off the face of the earth wasn't really something that was addressed until 1941. So Hitler didn't start WWII to wipe the Jews out, rather it grew out of surging Nationalism and an old fashioned power grab. Hitler wanted back what was lost at Versailles.

That's why I think comparing the Third Reich to Iran is silly.

Ask me if I think Iran should be stopped. That would be a better question.


I believe the Final Solution was always in Hitler's plans. He had to wait to implement it for several reasons.

*Make sure he had complete control over all aspects of German life, which meant running off or crushing anybody who may have blown the whistle internationally before it really got going, and cementing the loyalty of his underlings.

*Obtain territory on all sides of Germany which would act as a buffer zone and security to his operation. This territory just so happened to be chock full of Jews just "waiting" to be exterminated.

Whether you guys agree or not, Iran is using parts of the same playbook. The "all Jews must die" thing and "America is the devil and is oppressing us" mantra is just sleight of hand and trickeration IMO. World domination for Islam with Iran at the center is the goal.

History will not look kindly on John Kerry, Chuck Schumer, Harry Reid, etc., etc.. Unless of course they win...

[oilmud]

So Iraq is a strategic move?? Maybe W ain't so dumb after all.

[homerSimpsonsBrain]

The SS was the secret police in Nazi Germany...the SAVAK might be comparable or even the current VEVAK. Hezbollah performs no similiar function inside the Iranian government.

Claiming that Hezbollah and the SS are alike in ideology or function is not accurate.

I think you are thinking of the Gestapo. The Waffen SS were more like special forces. They were part of the Army. (Correction - Not really part of the army) I think the Revolutionary Guard would be equivalent to the SS

[SoonerProphet]

I think you are thinking of the Gestapo. The Waffen SS were more like special forces. They were part of the Army. (Correction - Not really part of the army) I think the Revolutionary Guard would be equivalent to the SS


The Waffen SS was the "armed" wing of the SS. I agree, the Revolutionary Guard might be an equivalent, but I think the VEVAK is part of the Ministry of Intelligence and National Security. More of a state police apparatus.

[JohnnyMack]

Yeah, the Waffen wasn't German Army, they were Nazis. There was a difference.

[Okla-homey]

Yeah, the Waffen wasn't German Army, they were Nazis. There was a difference.

I beg to differ. The Waffen SS fielded combat divisions. Panzer (armor) und panzer-grenadier (motorized infantry.) Thus, they were the Wehrmacht arm of the SS.

just sayin'

I agree that these "Republican Guard" divisions in ante-bellum Iraq were the functional equivalent of the Waffen SS in Hitler's Reich.

As to what role the 'Revolutionary Guards' play in Iran, I don't know if they have a uniformed branch that drives and fights the M-60's and M113's we sold the Shah or not.

[WILBURJIM]

Japan has and Iran will inflict a major attack on the US without warning.
Iran HAS attacked the US. Khobar Towers, US Embassy Beirut, USMC Beirut, all these attacks funded by or perpetrated by Iran.

[Jerk]

There were two SS groups:

Waffen SS
and
Allgemeine SS

Whilst not making an argument that only one was bad, it is the Allgemeine SS who are mostly responsible for butchering people wholesale.

[WILBURJIM]

I'll go with that, but I'd add that nationalist sentiment far and away outweighs that of religion. Nationalism was the primary engine of outward aggression in Germany and Japan and we would be wise to recognize this as the primary engine of aggression of the Persians as well.
The driving force of this outward aggression is Islam, not nationalism. Ahmadinejad says he wants to wipe Israel off the map. This is because Israel is a nation whose leadership are infidels; ruling what was at one time land ruled by muslims. Ahmadinejad wants to restore islamic rule. He does not say these things because Persia should re-establish it's age old empire.
I'll say it again, it is ISLAM, that is the driving force behind this aggression.

[Jerk]

I'll say it again, it is ISLAM, that is the driving force behind this aggression.

The resident leftists here would never have missed that point if they were Christians instead of islamists. It's funny how some people here prioritize what is a threat to them. If Iran were a Christian nation acting the way they are now, you could bet your left asscheak that Stoop Dawg would be here screaming bloody murder.

[JohnnyMack]

I beg to differ. The Waffen SS fielded combat divisions. Panzer (armor) und panzer-grenadier (motorized infantry.) Thus, they were the Wehrmacht arm of the SS.

just sayin'

I agree that these "Republican Guard" divisions in ante-bellum Iraq were the functional equivalent of the Waffen SS in Hitler's Reich.

As to what role the 'Revolutionary Guards' play in Iran, I don't know if they have a uniformed branch that drives and fights the M-60's and M113's we sold the Shah or not.

They may have evolved into combat divisions but they were born out of the Nazi party, not the Wehrmacht. The Wehrmacht may have been in command of them once they got up to division size.

[afs]

in Iran you have 2 military groups, the Iranian Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) and the Islamic Republic of Iran Regular Forces (IRIRF).

The IRGC is tasked with the duties of protecting the supreme leader and the islamic Iran while the IRIRF handles protection of the country. If you wanted to compare SS and Iraqi Republican Guard to Iran compare them to the IRGC as they are the forces most dedicated to the leadership and foundation of the country.

[picasso]

Buzz off, we're not looking for accurate, we need scare tactics.
I really don't get it bro. the election is over. Bushie is a lame Bubba Duck.

the only scaring we should be doing is what COULD happen. I'd rather be wrong and safe than right and f'd up.
Am I the only person that wonders what these freaks would do with some actual weapons?

[SoonerProphet]

Not to sure that the Wehrmacht and the Waffen shared much interest in one another. Folks like Hasso von Manteuffel despised the Nazi's, as did much of the Prussian military establishment prior to Adolf's rise to power. Derisively referencing his corporal status in WWI.

[JohnnyMack]

I really don't get it bro. the election is over. Bushie is a lame Bubba Duck.

the only scaring we should be doing is what COULD happen. I'd rather be wrong and safe than right and f'd up.
Am I the only person that wonders what these freaks would do with some actual weapons?

I didn't say Iran shouldn't be stopped. I said the comparison between Germany in 1938 and today's Iran was innaccurate.

[picasso]

I didn't say Iran shouldn't be stopped. I said the comparison between Germany in 1938 and today's Iran was innaccurate.
it might not be for say, Joe Israel person.

[Harry Beanbag]

Not to sure that the Wehrmacht and the Waffen shared much interest in one another. Folks like Hasso von Manteuffel despised the Nazi's, as did much of the Prussian military establishment prior to Adolf's rise to power. Derisively referencing his corporal status in WWI.


While you are right about that, I think a lot of that had to do with jealousy of the Waffen SS's "chosen" status, their eschewing of many pompous army traditions, and their success on the battlefield. Plus the Wehrmacht didn't approve of the Waffen SS's reckless combat tactics which produced very high casualty rates among the SS soldiers. But the SS divisions were some of the finest, most tenacious units ever placed on a field of battle by any country.

[OklahomaTuba]

BTW, I had a good german meal for dinner in honor of this thread.

Little too much Spaten though.

[Xstnlsooner]

Spaten!! Only had one this evening myself, Oktoberfest....

now, THAT's what beer is supposed to taste like!

Yofi meyod!!

[JohnnyMack]

Little too much Spaten though.

There's no such thing.

[Tear Down This Wall]

This thread is irrelevant because no one in the West has the balls to just go in and waste the Iranian leadership.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. People are asleep again. 9/11 is a distant memory for the ignorant masses. Al-Qaeda leaders coming on to say they want a muslim empire from Spain to Afghanistan hasn't awakened them.

There will have to be another attack on American or British soil before the idiots wake up again. The p*ssies running our country are too busy elbowing for TV time to start their '08 presidential campaigns to seriously deal with Iran or North Korea.

Just be gald you don't live in NYC, LA, Chicago, Miami, D.C. - all cities the terrorists repeatedly mention when they warn us that they will attack again.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I believe the Final Solution was always in Hitler's plans. He had to wait to implement it for several reasons.

*Make sure he had complete control over all aspects of German life, which meant running off or crushing anybody who may have blown the whistle internationally before it really got going, and cementing the loyalty of his underlings.

*Obtain territory on all sides of Germany which would act as a buffer zone and security to his operation. This territory just so happened to be chock full of Jews just "waiting" to be exterminated.

Whether you guys agree or not, Iran is using parts of the same playbook. The "all Jews must die" thing and "America is the devil and is oppressing us" mantra is just sleight of hand and trickeration IMO. World domination for Islam with Iran at the center is the goal.

History will not look kindly on John Kerry, Chuck Schumer, Harry Reid, etc., etc.. Unless of course they win...

These Iranians and pan-Arabia/Islamist were all trained by the Nazi's during WWII and were taught by French inteligencia prior to WWII. Saddam Hussein read Hitler and was a trained by the Nazi's. No coincidence here...

[85Sooner]

So Iraq is a strategic move?? Maybe W ain't so dumb after all.


I've been sayin that since day one. The only problem is W can't come out and say it. Oh well , its in the dems hands now we shall see what they do to address the future.

[Okla-homey]

This thread is irrelevant because no one in the West has the balls to just go in and waste the Iranian leadership.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. People are asleep again. 9/11 is a distant memory for the ignorant masses. Al-Qaeda leaders coming on to say they want a muslim empire from Spain to Afghanistan hasn't awakened them.

There will have to be another attack on American or British soil before the idiots wake up again. The p*ssies running our country are too busy elbowing for TV time to start their '08 presidential campaigns to seriously deal with Iran or North Korea.

Just be gald you don't live in NYC, LA, Chicago, Miami, D.C. - all cities the terrorists repeatedly mention when they warn us that they will attack again.

I'm awake, but no one listens to me. We got lots of perfectly good nuclear weapons sitting around in WSA's collecting dust. Let's pop some!:D

[Mixer!]

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81515

[WILBURJIM]

http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=9275



TEHRAN, Nov 21, 2006 (AFP) - Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has said the world is "rapidly becoming Ahmadinejadised" and global leaders have started following in his footsteps, press reports said Tuesday.

"I have travelled to all the continents except for one and I know what is going on out there. Everybody is eager to hear the Iranian people's message," the reformist Aftab-Yazd newspaper quoted the president as saying.

[KaiserSooner]

Some members of my congregation went to hear Netanyahu speak. His theme, often repeated, was, "It's 1938 and Iran is Germany."


Discuss.

It's a false comparison. For starters, Iran isn't a major world power in either the economic or military sphere.

And for those of you who really believe Iran intends to eliminate Israel:

1.) you overestimate the influence and real power a the president of Iran (Ahmadinejad) has.

2.) underestimate the influence, amount of control, and intelligence of Ayatollah Khamenei and his advisors. They let Ahmadinejad have a great deal of rhetorical leeway, but Khamenei and his people aren't stupid...they know full well that if Iran goes after Israel, it'll be the last thing Iran does.

[SoonerProphet]

It's a false comparison. For starters, Iran isn't a major world power in either the economic or military sphere.

And for those of you who really believe Iran intends to eliminate Israel:

1.) you overestimate the influence and real power a the president of Iran (Ahmadinejad) has.

2.) underestimate the influence, amount of control, and intelligence of Ayatollah Khamenei and his advisors. They let Ahmadinejad have a great deal of rhetorical leeway, but Khamenei and his people aren't stupid...they know full well that if Iran goes after Israel, it'll be the last thing Iran does.

Dude, the comparisons to WWII are so last week. Haven't ya heard, Bush and the fellas have moved on to Vietnam. We'd have won that struggle if we didn't quit.;)

I don't think many realize that Ahmadinejad is just a figurehead in the Islamic Repubic, it is all about the news cycle man. He comes out with crazy populist speeches and most fall pray to his rhetoric. In actuallity he is on a pretty tight leash and the mullahs don't want to jerk it right now cause they are holding the face cards. Like Hezbollah, they just have to hand the West the shovels and we'll keep diggin'.