View Full Version : Big Bio-fuels breakthrough
royalfan5
11/9/2006, 04:12 PM
http://energy.seekingalpha.com/article/20029
Verasun will be getting bio-diesel and ethanol out of the same bushel of corn. This development will be huge for the continued sustainability of the Bio-energy boom. Unless oil crashes in the next year and the high corn prices chew the ethanol makers up with the cattle and hog feeders.
crawfish
11/9/2006, 04:48 PM
Sure, like we want to be controlled by Big Corn.
achiro
11/9/2006, 04:52 PM
I can't believe how much corn has gone up in price in the last month!:eek:
W is making noise about a regime change in Iowa.
King Crimson
11/9/2006, 04:53 PM
Sure, like we want to be controlled by Big Corn.
lol.
of course, if St. Ronnie (to quote Tuba) hadn't slashed the DOE budget for alt fuels in the early 80's we might have been there 10 years ago.
frankensooner
11/9/2006, 05:04 PM
I hope we can get the same deal with CPEC that we do with OPEC and that Corn will only be bought with dollars.
Vaevictis
11/9/2006, 05:05 PM
The real question is, will this new tech allow us to extract more energy from the corn than we put in farming it?
royalfan5
11/9/2006, 05:08 PM
The real question is, will this new tech allow us to extract more energy from the corn than we put in farming it?
We already do. If you want to believe the report that says we don't based on baselines from Corn production methods from the 70's be my guest, but all modern research puts ethanol production at a 1.4 to 1.6 ratio and rising.
Vaevictis
11/9/2006, 05:14 PM
We already do. If you want to believe the report that says we don't based on baselines from Corn production methods from the 70's be my guest, but all modern research puts ethanol production at a 1.4 to 1.6 ratio and rising.
Hey, that's good news. All of the prior stuff I've seen says 1:1.
~1.5:1 is nowhere near switchgrass or sugar, but OTOH, we already have the infrastructure in place to grow massive amounts of corn.
frankensooner
11/9/2006, 05:15 PM
Wow, Corn need a new tag line.
How about It's not just for Bourbon anymore.
Or, Sure, Corn is in Schaffers and your gas tank.
I just thought of something, would a gas cap now be called a corn-hole cap?
royalfan5
11/9/2006, 05:19 PM
Hey, that's good news. All of the prior stuff I've seen says 1:1.
~1.5:1 is nowhere near switchgrass or sugar, but OTOH, we already have the infrastructure in place to grow massive amounts of corn.
switchgrass is brutally hard on the soil in a production setting as well, not to mention that the transportation and storage infrastructure plus the addition cost of machinery make swichgrass more of a pipedream than anything. Corn stover would be a better option, except for the soil nutrient loss. If we dropped the tariff on ethanol and/or the embargo on Cuba it would make sugar a lot more feasible. Anyway you slice it, the inability of ethanol to go through a pipeline will always hold ethanol back from reaching greater heights.
Hemp. Legalize hemp... and pot. Not for me though... just so we can make some tax revenue, provide an easily renewable source for paper/rope/fiberboard/fuel, plus lower crime and increase penalties for violent offenders.
Is there actually anybody around that is still opposed to legalizing pot? I mean besides a lot of my well-intentioned Christian brethren?
switchgrass is brutally hard on the soil in a production setting as well, not to mention that the transportation and storage infrastructure plus the addition cost of machinery make swichgrass more of a pipedream than anything. Corn stover would be a better option, except for the soil nutrient loss. If we dropped the tariff on ethanol and/or the embargo on Cuba it would make sugar a lot more feasible. Anyway you slice it, the inability of ethanol to go through a pipeline will always hold ethanol back from reaching greater heights.
Why won't it go through a pipeline?
royalfan5
11/9/2006, 05:22 PM
Why won't it go through a pipeline?
issues with water seepage.
Tulsa_Fireman
11/9/2006, 05:26 PM
I am.
It's a mind altering substance that affects the operation of a motor vehicle with no easy to use field test to determine the level of inebriation.
AKA, there's no such thing as a breathalyzer for pot.
And it alters your mental state, making the operation of a motor vehicle highly dangerous for the smoker and everyone around him.
No legalization for weed. I scrape enough sober folks off the highways and byways of Tulsa as it is.
Vaevictis
11/9/2006, 05:27 PM
Anyway you slice it, the inability of ethanol to go through a pipeline will always hold ethanol back from reaching greater heights.
The inability has more to do with the design of the current infrastructure than with a total inability yes? IE, pipes designed specifically for ethanol would work if you kept them in good repair, yes?
Is there actually anybody around that is still opposed to legalizing pot? I mean besides a lot of my well-intentioned Christian brethren?
unbelievably, Las Vegas said no.
royalfan5
11/9/2006, 05:34 PM
The inability has more to do with the design of the current infrastructure than with a total inability yes? IE, pipes designed specifically for ethanol would work if you kept them in good repair, yes?
Maybe, but that would be hugely expensive to build a seperate infrastructure for something can't realistically top 20% of US consumption.
http://www.agmrc.org/NR/rdonlyres/4EE0E81C-C607-4C3F-BBCF-B75B7395C881/0/ksupipelineethl.pdf
NormanPride
11/9/2006, 06:00 PM
I am.
It's a mind altering substance that affects the operation of a motor vehicle with no easy to use field test to determine the level of inebriation.
AKA, there's no such thing as a breathalyzer for pot.
And it alters your mental state, making the operation of a motor vehicle highly dangerous for the smoker and everyone around him.
No legalization for weed. I scrape enough sober folks off the highways and byways of Tulsa as it is.
That's the first really good reason I've heard. Hmm... Dang, now I have to think about this again. :D
OklahomaTuba
11/9/2006, 08:55 PM
Go Verasun! This is fantastic news.
That is a great company that is spending a lot on R&D. I have been to both of their plants in Aurora SD and Ft Dodge Iowa.
Aurora is one of the largest ETH plants in the country. The tour was great. Even got a little drunk when i got to drink some of the ETH. ;)
OklahomaTuba
11/9/2006, 08:57 PM
The real question is, will this new tech allow us to extract more energy from the corn than we put in farming it?
Its not the farming that requires the most energy, but the milling process.
OklahomaTuba
11/9/2006, 09:00 PM
lol.
of course, if St. Ronnie (to quote Tuba) hadn't slashed the DOE budget for alt fuels in the early 80's we might have been there 10 years ago.
Doubt it.
Bio-engineered corn is thanks to recent advances in the medical field mostly.
Besides, St. Ronnie, God bless him, had a democratic controlled congress, and those people didn't do much about it either.
PhilTLL
11/9/2006, 09:08 PM
I am.
It's a mind altering substance that affects the operation of a motor vehicle with no easy to use field test to determine the level of inebriation.
AKA, there's no such thing as a breathalyzer for pot.
And it alters your mental state, making the operation of a motor vehicle highly dangerous for the smoker and everyone around him.
No legalization for weed. I scrape enough sober folks off the highways and byways of Tulsa as it is.
I just want consistency. If those are your reasons for keeping the law, then you should advocate prohibition of alcohol, too. And neither prohibition has worked historically to reduce use, abuse, or deaths.
And, no, there's not a breathalyzer for pot, but cops can currently arrest drivers without breathalyzing them for alcohol. There are research-based reasons to believe that it is significantly less impairing to drivers, anyway (http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/MISC/driving/driving2.htm, http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=5448 ).
I just want consistency. If those are your reasons for keeping the law, then you should advocate prohibition of alcohol, too. And neither prohibition has worked historically to reduce use, abuse, or deaths.
And, no, there's not a breathalyzer for pot, but cops can currently arrest drivers without breathalyzing them for alcohol. There are research-based reasons to believe that it is significantly less impairing to drivers, anyway (http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/MISC/driving/driving2.htm, http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=5448 ).
I have about 6 years of SERIOUS research that would most definitely confirm that driving while stoned isn't near as dangerous as driving drunk. I agree about the consistency argument as well. I'd be curious to know how many people fireman scrapes up that are drunk versus those that are stoned.
Also, while there aren't breathalyzers for pot, you can still run a field sobriety test. If they fail that, that's enough reason to bring 'em in. You might not be able to stick a charge, but they won't be on the road stoned.
Fireman ought to be for criminalizing all pain medications as well, since they impair people much more than pot does. I mean, come on dude. You can keep that line of reasoning going all day. All sorts of things impair people. If cars were not around, I'm assuming you would be for legalization?
If pot were legal, I don't think usage would increase that dramatically. I really don't. Maybe a little more casual pot smoking, but it will never be the popular drug that alcohol is.
OklahomaTuba
11/9/2006, 09:50 PM
My biggest fear is the culture it breeds around it.
A blanket legalization is the last thing we need to be throwing into our society right now IMO.
Having to fight that battle every day with my adopted 17 year old brother who has a problem with pot is a stressful enough to say the least. Last thing I or other parents need is them coming back to me saying "yeah, but its legal".
**** that ****.
Good arguments....:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
StoopTroup
11/9/2006, 10:55 PM
This is great news!
Keep the info coming on this...
I'm all ears...
Despite the legalization of soft drugs, use of cannabis in the Netherlands is not higher than most other countries in Western Europe: 9.7% of young males consume cannabis at least once a month, which rates the Netherlands 7th in the EU after Cyprus (23.3%), Spain (16.4%), United Kingdom (15.8%), France (13.2%), Italy (10.9%) and Germany (9.9%).[1]
Some critics say that the legalization of soft drugs often leads to quicker consuming of hard drugs. Yet, the percentage of the population which ever consumed cocaine in the Netherlands is still lower than that of the United Kingdom, Spain and Italy. The situation is similar for other hard drugs. [2]
BeetDigger
11/10/2006, 12:12 AM
I'm all ears...
Awwww shucks. You beat me to it. :texan:
BeetDigger
11/10/2006, 12:14 AM
If we dropped the tariff on ethanol and/or the embargo on Cuba it would make sugar a lot more feasible.
There's plenty of sugar in beets, dammit!
royalfan5
11/10/2006, 12:16 AM
There's plenty of sugar in beets, dammit!
sure, but the supply in the US is such that it isn't feasible for us to turn sugar into ethanol w/o punishing the food consumer
BeetDigger
11/10/2006, 12:24 AM
sure, but the supply in the US is such that it isn't feasible for us to turn sugar into ethanol w/o punishing the food consumer
Listen boy. Don't you go knocking beets.
StoopTroup
11/10/2006, 12:29 AM
Do you all beet your kids?
BeetDigger
11/10/2006, 12:36 AM
Do you all beet your kids?
No way, I dig my kids. :D
TUSooner
11/10/2006, 07:34 AM
Is there any chance this bio-fuel development would reduce the amount of high-fructose corn syrup that is foisted on us ignorant consumers in so many foods?
OklahomaTuba
11/10/2006, 09:39 AM
Despite the legalization of soft drugs, use of cannabis in the Netherlands is not higher than most other countries in Western Europe: 9.7% of young males consume cannabis at least once a month, which rates the Netherlands 7th in the EU after Cyprus (23.3%), Spain (16.4%), United Kingdom (15.8%), France (13.2%), Italy (10.9%) and Germany (9.9%).[1]
Some critics say that the legalization of soft drugs often leads to quicker consuming of hard drugs. Yet, the percentage of the population which ever consumed cocaine in the Netherlands is still lower than that of the United Kingdom, Spain and Italy. The situation is similar for other hard drugs. [2]
Its almost comical that you are trying to relate the US to a batch of countries that are in midst of major social & economic decline over the past recent decades.
The LAST thing that needs to happen here is turning the US into a socialist "progressive" nanny state where unemployment is sky high, birth rates are plummeting, and economic prosperity is basically a government program so people can sit around and do what ever the hell they want.
Maybe instead of trying to make your case just based on if its a gateway drug or not (which no one will ever convice me it isn't after having my father die of a drug overdose and basically living on streets with a drug addicted mother growing up) maybe you should think about the social and economic consequences legalization may have on this nations culture and its children and their future???? :)
SoonerInKCMO
11/10/2006, 09:41 AM
sure, but the supply in the US is such that it isn't feasible for us to turn sugar into ethanol w/o punishing the food consumer
Bah. If we turned every beet in the country into ethanol that would be a reward to the food consumer.
BeetDigger
11/10/2006, 10:15 AM
Bah. If we turned every beet in the country into ethanol that would be a reward to the food consumer.
Don't you go talking bad about beets. :texan:
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