What the election REALLY means

[SicEmBaylor]

Well,
Tonight was not a good night for the GOP. It pains me to say that PERHAPS giving the GOP a "timeout" in the corner will be better for them in the long run.

I went to a watch party for the GOP candidate in my district who pulled off what is a major upset in a heavily Democratic district against a highly organized Democratic opponet. I went with my ex g/f who hates politics and wanted to go home after being there for only an hour. I think at that point only 31% of the precincts had reported. So, I take her home and take a couple of calls from friends in Texas letting me know how things were going down there when I see how the State House race is going. I decided to go over there just as they were wrapping up the victory celebration. It was pretty great. A pic of the moment will be up on my myspace (is that redundant?).

[badger]

I talked with some sad, sad Republicans tonight. They need to have a new Contract With America if they want to re-take control.

[Vaevictis]

Maybe they can default on the new Contract too!

[Frozen Sooner]

It'd be nice if the Democrats realize that their majority in the House and whatever they might have in the Senate is as thin as Nicole Richie and act accordingly.

[TopDawg]

It pains me to say that PERHAPS giving the GOP a "timeout" in the corner will be better for them in the long run.


That's pretty much the cycle we go through in this country. One party gets control, they get too big-headed, too far away from center, and we send them a wake-up call.

Rinse. Repeat.

[Vaevictis]

A move to center is warranted. Stick to working on things that are important, and that nobody can argue with -- get the deficit under control, get an Iraq strategy that shows progress (or at minimum demand one!), and get the corruption under control.

Oh yeah, and don't forget their oath of office like the guys they unseated.

[Vaevictis]

Heh, I like John McCain's quote:

"Some think that we came to Washington to change government, and government changed us."

Words of wisdom they are.

[TopDawg]

It'd be nice if the Democrats realize that their majority in the House and whatever they might have in the Senate is as thin as Nicole Richie and act accordingly.

Exactly what the Republicans failed to realize. They just paid attention to the amount of elections they were winning, not how much they were winning them by. They didn't realize it wouldn't take much to tip the scales the other way.

[Frozen Sooner]

Exactly what the Republicans failed to realize. They just paid attention to the amount of elections they were winning, not how much they were winning them by. They didn't realize it wouldn't take much to tip the scales the other way.

Yep.

[SicEmBaylor]

The solution to me remains the same.
If the Federal government got out of the business of imposing uniform social policy upon the entire country by strictly limiting its activities to its specific enumerated powers (and taking a limited view of those powers), and instead allowing the individual states to create their own social policy then it would do well to ease some of the tension between parties and ideologies.

My problem with the Republican Party is that they spend like a drunken sailor on shore leave and have committed themselves to exploiting their power in order to impose their idea of "conservatism" upon the entire nation. This is what they assailed the Democrats for doing for decades.

Let states work things out for themselves. A government closer to the people is a government that is going to craft social policy that reflects the beliefs of those people better than a uniform policy imposed by the Federal government.

[jrsooner]

Let states work things out for themselves. A government closer to the people is a government that is going to craft social policy that reflects the beliefs of those people better than a uniform policy imposed by the Federal government.We won't get that for about 2 years now. The party that thinks the feds need to be in everything we do is now in control of the house and possibly the senate. Look for more federal control being rammed down our throat.

[GrapevineSooner]

This might be the best thing to happen to the Republican Party.

[crawfish]

I wish "the people" would get ticked at BOTH parties simultaneously and mass-elect Libertarians. Seems like they're always gonna get hypnotized by the BS of one party or the other.

[mrowl]

thanks perry folks... :rolleyes:

The future of Texas:

http://www.the-funneled-web.com/images/coal-power-plant.gif

[TexasLidig8r]

lol.. Since election night means getting out, shaking hands with the judges up for re-election, I went to the Republican Election Watch Party at the Radisson here in Dallas... and a wake broke out! Ouch.

Every Republican judge up for re-election or running.. went down to ignominious defeat.

It was poorly attended compared to past elections and the mood was somber.

So... away we went for some great sushi at Tei Tei.

[NormanPride]

The solution to me remains the same.
If the Federal government got out of the business of imposing uniform social policy upon the entire country by strictly limiting its activities to its specific enumerated powers (and taking a limited view of those powers), and instead allowing the individual states to create their own social policy then it would do well to ease some of the tension between parties and ideologies.

My problem with the Republican Party is that they spend like a drunken sailor on shore leave and have committed themselves to exploiting their power in order to impose their idea of "conservatism" upon the entire nation. This is what they assailed the Democrats for doing for decades.

Let states work things out for themselves. A government closer to the people is a government that is going to craft social policy that reflects the beliefs of those people better than a uniform policy imposed by the Federal government.

I really like this idea, but it's just not going to happen. You're asking old people to give away their "hard-earned" power to what they most likely perceive as the country bumpkins of the political world. No, this is an irreversible trend. The only hope we have is to slow it down, which is why I want an independent in the White House, and two different parties controlling the Senate and House. Get the least amount of "progress" out of the government. How sad is that?

[tbl]

I wish "the people" would get ticked at BOTH parties simultaneously and mass-elect Libertarians. Seems like they're always gonna get hypnotized by the BS of one party or the other.
I'm one of the few that shows up on those 3-5% columns... Oh well.

[Xstnlsooner]

What we need is a REVOLUTION!!

[BeetDigger]

A move to center is warranted. Stick to working on things that are important, and that nobody can argue with -- get the deficit under control, get an Iraq strategy that shows progress (or at minimum demand one!), and get the corruption under control.

Oh yeah, and don't forget their oath of office like the guys they unseated.


Oh yeah, the democrats are going to work on all that. They are all that's right and good in 'merica. :rolleyes:

[Vaevictis]

Oh yeah, the democrats are going to work on all that. They are all that's right and good in 'merica. :rolleyes:

Nope, but Bush still has the veto. The fact that we have an oppositional government again may force it center.

That's what I'm hoping for anyway.

[jk the sooner fan]

dean says the election results wont effect him one iota

as the parent of a son about to deploy to iraq....i'm feeling a little different about that

[OklahomaTuba]

Well, your son may get to Iraq, only to find that the money needed to win this battle is cut off by Charlie Rangle.

And I wonder what it will do to our troops morale when the articles of impeachment come flying at Bush???

I hope the dims are smart and don't try to do any of that, but who knows.

Hopefully Bush gets rid of Rummy and brings someone in that shares Colin Powells view on things, which is to flood the country with troops, take out Sadr, and clean some house.

[bri]

Oh man, this board is gonna be some entertainin' readin' for the next few days! :D

Quick question: Do the Democrats' victories yesterday mean that America is now anti-American?

[usmc-sooner]

gay marriages for everyone, and they all hate America.

[OklahomaTuba]

This wouldn't be a problem if those stupid libz had kept their promise and moved to Canada after the 2004 elections.

;)

[C&CDean]

Meh. I couldn't give a ****. The only people gnashing their teeth will be the usual suspects. Just like our usual lib suspects when the elephants won last time. Like I said, meh.

[sanantoniosooner]

I wish I could retroactively go back and waste a vote for Perot.

[bri]

Meh. I couldn't give a ****. The only people gnashing their teeth will be the usual suspects. Just like our usual lib suspects when the elephants won last time. Like I said, meh.

Well, YOU'RE no fun. ;)

Luckily, you're in the minority...just like House Republicans! Tee hee! :D

[TexasSooner01]

I agree with Dean. :D

[usmc-sooner]

now I'm going to have to have to learn to speak Spanish

[OklahomaTuba]

Well, YOU'RE no fun. ;)

Luckily, you're in the minority...just like House Republicans! Tee hee! :D

Don't forget the Senate. ;)

[GrapevineSooner]

Only if Ned Lamont-anti-war-type-Dems-that-Markos-Zuniga-has-wet-dreams over, was elected.

By and large, it seems the Dems that were swept into power are moderate to conservative.

[C&CDean]

Do you really think the policy in Iraq is gonna suddenly change? Do you really think the dems have an answer? Do you really think the kid is gonna over there - and they're gonna issue him a cardboard flak jacket cause the kevlar ones are not affordable any more?

The whole whining about the war in Iraq is simply that. Whining. The dems do not have an answer. They just wanna bitch. Well now they get to do something. Sorta. And they won't do ****. Watch.

[sanantoniosooner]

now I'm going to have to have to learn to speak Spanish
Then you can complain about the soccer team :D

[KABOOKIE]

I for one am happy the dems won the house. This will be enough exposure for them between now and 2008 to ruin it for them. :D

[usmc-sooner]

Then you can complain about the soccer team :D

I think you mean futbol:D

[sanantoniosooner]

I think you mean futbol:D
that would have been funnier.

I am ashamed to have missed the opportunity.:(

[Sooner_Bob]

now I'm going to have to have to learn to speak Spanish

hola!

[usmc-sooner]

Roberto Stoops para el presidente

[1stTimeCaller]

does the might makes right rule still apply?

[OklahomaTuba]

now I'm going to have to have to learn to speak Spanish

Yes, but you will need to add a lisp to it.

And work on that wrist thing while you're at it.

[jk the sooner fan]

wait, was this election about the war in iraq or not? do i think the dems will muddle it up further than it already is? yes

do i think funding will be an issue? absolutely

[homerSimpsonsBrain]

Paraphrasing Will Rogers... With the republicans it was man against man. With the democrats it will be just the opposite.

[sanantoniosooner]

Administration changes have had an effect on my wife's job with the gov almost every time.

New leaders come in, totally change the way everything is being done and cause some crap.

Doesn't matter who it its.

[OklahomaTuba]

does the might makes right rule still apply?

¿Que?

[usmc-sooner]

I think the Dem's will dick up a lot of stuff, especially in the military, but the people have spoken.

[KABOOKIE]

Oh and this is nothing comparing to the cry baby, kicking and screaming by the dems of this board in 2004. ;)

Wait 'tl next year!

[mdklatt]

do i think funding will be an issue? absolutely

Wasn't it the pubz who deployed troops to Iraq without enough body armor? And who insist on cutting taxes while we're trying to fight a war?

[slickdawg]

Do you really think the policy in Iraq is gonna suddenly change? Do you really think the dems have an answer? Do you really think the kid is gonna over there - and they're gonna issue him a cardboard flak jacket cause the kevlar ones are not affordable any more?

The whole whining about the war in Iraq is simply that. Whining. The dems do not have an answer. They just wanna bitch. Well now they get to do something. Sorta. And they won't do ****. Watch.

Nail, meet the hammer.

This election was more about "bush ain't satisfying me". Democrats never said what they were going to do to fix things, they just said "Bush bad, vote for us" and the sheep did.

So they've caught this fish and pulled it in the boat, lets see what they do with it.

[C&CDean]

wait, was this election about the war in iraq or not? do i think the dems will muddle it up further than it already is? yes

do i think funding will be an issue? absolutely

Oh ye of little faith. The people's party is in control now. They don't care about the war in Iraq. It's gonna go on status quo. They just used it to get a few extra dumbasses to vote their way. Where we'll see "muddling" will be things like a few death row dudes getting off, a couple extra free abortions, and much lamenting about evil guns when the next whack job shoots up a school or office building.

The dems don't scare me.

[mdklatt]

I think the Dem's will dick up a lot of stuff, especially in the military

They can't dick it up more than Rumsfeld has done already.

[usmc-sooner]

They can't dick it up more than Rumsfeld has done already.

yes they can, I've served under Dem and Pub give me the Pub 8 days a week.

[C&CDean]

They can't dick it up more than Rumsfeld has done already.

Oh I don't know. They can get some Jane Fonda/Alec Baldwin/Danny Glover types to go over and convince the troops their CIC is really satan and if they're realAmericans, they'll defect to Slovenia.

[homerSimpsonsBrain]

Tell the kid to keep his head down and come home safe JK.

[OklahomaTuba]

Does the word Slovenia make anyone else hungry?

[Scott D]

not as much as Bratslavia

[usmc-sooner]

Does the word Slovenia make anyone else hungry?


makes me horny

[Scott D]

you are a marine, a slight breeze makes you horny

[Vaevictis]

The most likely scenario, IMO, is that civvies at the top of/in charge of the DoD will feel political pressure to generate measurable progress.

In other words, there will be pressure to perform -- something which was sorely lacking when the Congress had their backs no matter what.

If you think that that's a bad thing, you're crazy.

[OklahomaTuba]

They can't dick it up more than Rumsfeld has done already.

What do the dims call it? "phased redeloyment"?

Let the bastards just kill each other, or let Iran or AQ basically take control of the worlds #3 oil producer.

Yeah, that would work out swell. :rolleyes:

[Scott D]

Ok, in all honesty Tuba I'll ask this. Do you see Iraq as a viable democratic entity without it ending up divided into 3 countries separating the Kurds, Shiites and Sunnis?

[usmc-sooner]

Ok, in all honesty Tuba I'll ask this. Do you see Iraq as a viable democratic entity without it ending up divided into 3 countries separating the Kurds, Shiites and Sunnis?

I see it as a great place, I hope to take the family there for vacation in the near future.

[crawfish]

not as much as Bratslavia

I hear there's a nice bush there.

[mdklatt]

yes they can, I've served under Dem and Pub give me the Pub 8 days a week.

What's your take on this (http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-2333360.php):


For two years, American sergeants, captains and majors training the Iraqis have told their bosses that Iraqi troops have no sense of national identity, are only in it for the money, don’t show up for duty and cannot sustain themselves.

Meanwhile, colonels and generals have asked their bosses for more troops. Service chiefs have asked for more money.

And all along, Rumsfeld has assured us that things are well in hand.

Now, the president says he’ll stick with Rumsfeld for the balance of his term in the White House.

This is a mistake. It is one thing for the majority of Americans to think Rumsfeld has failed. But when the nation’s current military leaders start to break publicly with their defense secretary, then it is clear that he is losing control of the institution he ostensibly leads.

These officers have been loyal public promoters of a war policy many privately feared would fail. They have kept their counsel private, adhering to more than two centuries of American tradition of subordination of the military to civilian authority.

And although that tradition, and the officers’ deep sense of honor, prevent them from saying this publicly, more and more of them believe it.

Rumsfeld has lost credibility with the uniformed leadership, with the troops, with Congress and with the public at large. His strategy has failed, and his ability to lead is compromised. And although the blame for our failures in Iraq rests with the secretary, it will be the troops who bear its brunt.

This is not about the midterm elections. Regardless of which party wins Nov. 7, the time has come, Mr. President, to face the hard bruising truth:

Donald Rumsfeld must go.



Waiting for Tuba to denounce this as the ranting of a liberal blog.... :pop:

[Scott D]

I see it as a great place, I hope to take the family there for vacation in the near future.

I've heard that the Baghdad Disneyworld will be all the rage.

[usmc-sooner]

does it list names of these current officers who have a beef with Rumy? If not I wouldn't lend a whole lot of credence to it.

When I was PFC I often privately disagreed with the Sgt who had me scrubbing decks and emptying the trash, or doing Field days.

[Scott D]

dean says the election results wont effect him one iota

as the parent of a son about to deploy to iraq....i'm feeling a little different about that

deploymentwise jk I share your concerns....the girl is set to ship off to basic training either next month or in february.

[usmc-sooner]

I've heard that the Baghdad Disneyworld will be all the rage.


http://www.wdw-photos.com/oct19/bncastaladin.jpg

awesomeness

[GottaHavePride]

Yes, but you will need to add a lisp to it.

Only Spaniards do that. ;)

[Widescreen]

It'll be interesting to see how somebody like Heath Shuler will get along with the Nancy Pelosi's of congress. Heath could basically be a conservative republican and I'm guessing there are going to be some real battles on the Dem side over a lot of issues.

[OU4LIFE]

Only Spaniards do that. ;)

If by Spaniards you mean Thpaniardth then I agree.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Fortunately, I live in Texas where Republicans swept the statewide offices again. Also, I live in Collin County, so I don't have to pay for the 12 bond issues passed in Dallas County (have fun paying for those boondoggles, Dallas Co. friends :D)

I have a cousin deployed in Iraq. He's disappointed by the results, but what can you do? Those on the ground who see the good going on in most of Iraq don't have much of a voice. And, what voice they do have is drowned out by the bedwetting liberals in the press and Congress.

As for losing the House and Senate, it's a good house cleaning. We rid ourselves of pretend Republicans like Chaffee. We also rid ourselves of the few, ignorant anti-ANWR drilling Republicans like Mike DeWine. We also rid ourselves of George Allen and his stupid side comments. It was also nice to see Northup in Kentucky lose after she publicly dissed Bush. Nice try, Ann - but you live in Kentucky, not Massachusetts.

To me, the G.O.P. Senators got what they deserved for blocking so much of the legislation that came out of the House for the last six years. Memo to Lindsey Graham...we didn't send money to the Republican Senatorial get-up chaired by Elizabeth Dole. Usually, we do. And, we won't send any in 2008 or 2010 either if you keep up your shenanigans.

Sit out of power a couple of years or so, Lindsey, my boy. Maybe next time the G.O.P. has control you won't be such a flying dickwedge to your fellow party members. Pass the same sentiment along to Warner, Hagel, and McCain as well. Shenanigans against your own party = no money. Living in Texas where we regularly sweep the state offices, I could care less if your as*ses are left hanging in the breeze out there in D.C.

The most encouraging thing was the South. We held some seats and almost won Foley's even though it was scandal ridden. G.O.P. looks in pretty good shape to take that and DeLay's old seat back in 2008. Many of the Democrat incumbents in the South, what few there are, had tough fights. It'll only be tougher for them in 2008.

Also, many of the new Democrats claimed in campaigning to be conservative (i.e., Heath Shuler in N.C.). So, Pelosi & Co. will not be able to just ramrod through a leftist agenda. Now that the Dems are in control, they'll have to think of plans instead of just making up stuff about Bush all of the time.

It ought to be a fun two years!

[usmc-sooner]

It'll be interesting to see how somebody like Heath Shuler will get along with the Nancy Pelosi's of congress. Heath could basically be a conservative republican and I'm guessing there are going to be some real battles on the Dem side over a lot of issues.

he was a bust in the NFL

[bri]

Don't forget the Senate. ;)

Well, I don't want to jump the gun on that one. I learned my lesson after that awkward Gore victory party I threw in 2000. ;)

[TopDawg]

I like how people who a few years ago were grinning and saying that the Democrats would never be in control again, are now spinning this election as a good thing.

[sanantoniosooner]

I like how people who a few years ago were grinning and saying that the Democrats would never be in control again, are now spinning this election as a good thing.
I like how all the roles reverse every few years and Americans get screwed while the two parties take turns.

[Rhino]

Man, it's gunna be a baby-eatin' buffet.

[Tear Down This Wall]

I like how people who a few years ago were grinning and saying that the Democrats would never be in control again, are now spinning this election as a good thing.

It's called having a positive outlook on life - that is, events outside of my life don't effect my overall happiness. I make a good living, live in a safe neighborhood, have an excellent wife, and a beautiful nine month old boy. Nothing any set of politicians do could touch that. The blessings of God are far more powerful that the schemes of the folks in D.C.

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

Oh and this is nothing comparing to the cry baby, kicking and screaming by the dems of this board in 2004. ;)

Wait 'tl next year!What, all 4 of us?

[mdklatt]

OMFG, an illegal alien had a baby right outside my window! And then she went up to the admissions office to pre-enroll it at OU so it would qualify for resident tution! And the she headed off for a gay wedding carrying an "I HATE THE TROOPS" banner!

[TopDawg]

I like how all the roles reverse every few years and Americans get screwed while the two parties take turns.

Exactly what I was trying to tell these people in 2000 and 2004 when they were claiming that America was going Republican and never turning back.

As soon as one party gets too much power or holds a majority for too long, they muck it up and open the door for the other one to come in and bumble for a while.

[TopDawg]

It's called having a positive outlook on life - that is, events outside of my life don't effect my overall happiness. I make a good living, live in a safe neighborhood, have an excellent wife, and a beautiful nine month old boy. Nothing any set of politicians do could touch that. The blessings of God are far more powerful that the schemes of the folks in D.C.

Nice speech. But it has nothing to do with what I said.

[mdklatt]

I like how people who a few years ago were grinning and saying that the Democrats would never be in control again, are now spinning this election as a good thing.

Maybe the pubz are more like aggies than whorns.

[nmsoonergirl]

Tell the kid to keep his head down and come home safe JK.


Amen to that.

[mdklatt]

I like how all the roles reverse every few years and Americans get screwed while the two parties take turns.

A question for the dimz and pubz on here: Do you at least get a reacharound when your guys are the ones doing the screwing?

[Vaevictis]

I like how people who a few years ago were grinning and saying that the Democrats would never be in control again, are now spinning this election as a good thing.

Well, it is a good thing for the real Republicans. The guys who were in charge the past few years took everything bad about the Republicans, ****-canned everything good about the Republicans (fiscal responsibility), and even tossed in a few of the bad things about the Democrats.

Like I've said, they defaulted on the Contract with America. It's no suprise they got ousted.

[FaninAma]

This result was the absolute worst thing that could have happened to Hilliary Clinton in her quest for the Presidency. Her best campaigning ploy has now been taken away.

And it will be very entertaining watching the Dems try and convince Lieberman that there are no hard feelings after they tried to Soprano his Senate career in the Democratic primaries. :D

For the next 2 years there will be a a whole lot of nothing coming out of Washington which will be fine with me. You think the Republicans had a hard time getting things done in the Senate with a 8 seat margin? Let's watch as the Dems try to get anythnig done with a 1 seat margin + trying to count on a very ****ed off Joe Lieberman to toe the party line.

And it I think it will hit home in a big way as Pelosi and Hilliary Clinton more and more become the face of the Democratic Party.

The GOP has to be licking their chops about the 2008 election.

[Tear Down This Wall]

What's your take on this (http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-2333360.php):




Waiting for Tuba to denounce this as the ranting of a liberal blog.... :pop:

Sounds more like the yankee "Republican" tripe that got the northeastern G.O.P. their as*ses handed to them last night. Sorry yankee G.O.P.ers, Bush pulled you through in 2000, 2002, and 2004. You cut and ran, and got your butts whipped for it, in 2006.

Things is diff'rent when we big South'n dummies don't just pony up cash for ya'll races, ain't it? So, sorry ya'll couldn't have been more cordial to us and our neighbor, W. Have fun shoveling snow at home this winter now.

Ya'll come back now, ya heyah...or not!

[OhU1]

As for losing the House and Senate, it's a good house cleaning.

And locally Thad Balkman and Wes Lane were clensed. David Prater was a Republican who switched to Democrat soley to run against Lane for D.A. Prater is a former Norman police officer and a good prosecutor. He will do a good job in Oklahoma County.

Ernie Istook lost too. No loss there. I haven't heard that Ernie was well loved by many Republicans (as evidence he got what, 30% of the vote in at least a 50% Repub state).

[Vaevictis]

For the next 2 years there will be a a whole lot of nothing coming out of Washington which will be fine with me. You think the Republicans had a hard time getting things done in the Senate with a 8 seat margin? Let's watch as the Dems try to get anythnig done with a 1 seat margin + trying to count on a very ****ed off Joe Lieberman to toe the party line.

The Dems never expected to take the Senate. If they end up taking it, it's icing on the cake, even though Joe waffles back and forth between the parties.

The real key is whether or not Joe will caucus with the Dems or not. If he does, the Dems control the committees, and if they control the committees, they have pretty strong control of what actually gets voted on.

Even if it's not the same amount of power that the Republicans have had the past few years -- ie, the ability to ram anything down the Dems throats -- it's still a lot of power, and nothing to sneeze at.

As I've said, this is the best result possible. One party in control of the White House, and one party with a very slim majority in the Senate and a comfortable majority in the House.

Nobody can ram anything down anyone's throat. They'll have to compromise, and there will be a forced shift back to center.

That is not by any means a bad thing.

[TUSooner]

Not a helluva lot, according to my recent visitor from another realm:
As I was taking my customary ante-meridien power siesta a moment ago, I was visited by the ghost of H.L. Mencken. The Sage of Baltimore was disappointment to learn that I could not light his long-extinguished cigar and that smoking was not allowed in the buildng anyway. But he gave me his short summary of yesterday's election:

From Mencken's Ghost: It won't be as bad for the Republicans as they think; and it won't be as good for the Democrats as they think. Unfortunately, it WILL be every bit as bad as thoughtful people fear. This election and the run-up to it prove once again that the parties and their blind followers only care about the all-too-easy work of making each other look like fools. Not a handful of people give a damn about the big picture and getting the country on the right road, and whenever they start to talk, they get shouted down by the idiots on either side. The whole damn country will be knee deep in a civil war between the Mexicans and the Muslims before most Americans even realize that it's too late for the useless name calling and cheap straw-man arguments that they passionately embrace as a subtitute for sensible discourse. Oh well, that's the way the Great American People always have been and always will be. I couldn't do anything about their rampant bullsh!t and wooly-headed thinking in my day, and you can't do anything now!
Then he said something about going to play pinochle with Groucho. I wanted to ask him if there was any hope at all, but at that moment, from across the hall, burst forth the aural lobotomy that is Kenny Chesney's voice; evidently Secretary Gong has changed her ring tone again. Kenny howled about "[something, something] on the dashboard" and Henry Louis Mencken's Ghost was gone. I feel empty and sad. I think I'll walk across the street and buy a lottery ticket.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

News Flash!! The Democrats are going to exactly what Republicans did for the last 12 years....whine alot.

[mdklatt]

Sounds more like the yankee "Republican" tripe that got the northeastern G.O.P. their as*ses handed to them last night. Sorry yankee G.O.P.ers, Bush pulled you through in 2000, 2002, and 2004. You cut and ran, and got your butts whipped for it, in 2006.



It's like a hornfans.com meltdown.

[King Crimson]

heh.

[mdklatt]

News Flash!! The Democrats and Republicans are going to exactly what Democrats and Republicans did for the last 12 years....whine alot.

Fixed!

[TUSooner]

Do you really think the policy in Iraq is gonna suddenly change? Do you really think the dems have an answer? Do you really think the kid is gonna over there - and they're gonna issue him a cardboard flak jacket cause the kevlar ones are not affordable any more?

The whole whining about the war in Iraq is simply that. Whining. The dems do not have an answer. They just wanna bitch. Well now they get to do something. Sorta. And they won't do ****. Watch.

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/5417/hammernailfz6.jpg


And props to slickdawg for saying it first.

[OhU1]

It's like a hornfans.com meltdown.
:D

[FaninAma]

NM

[Mixer!]

OMFG, an illegal alien had a baby right outside my window! And then she went up to the admissions office to pre-enroll it at OU so it would qualify for resident tution! And the she headed off for a gay wedding carrying an "I HATE STOOPS" banner!

Lock & Load, beyonces.... :dean:

[FaninAma]

The Dems never expected to take the Senate. If they end up taking it, it's icing on the cake, even though Joe waffles back and forth between the parties.

The real key is whether or not Joe will caucus with the Dems or not. If he does, the Dems control the committees, and if they control the committees, they have pretty strong control of what actually gets voted on.

Even if it's not the same amount of power that the Republicans have had the past few years -- ie, the ability to ram anything down the Dems throats -- it's still a lot of power, and nothing to sneeze at.

As I've said, this is the best result possible. One party in control of the White House, and one party with a very slim majority in the Senate and a comfortable majority in the House.

Nobody can ram anything down anyone's throat. They'll have to compromise, and there will be a forced shift back to center.

That is not by any means a bad thing.

Can you give me an example of something being rammed down the Democrat's or anybody else's throat? Of course that doesn't include Barney Frank or Foley for obvious reasons.

To ram anything through the Senate you have to have 60 votes. If anything the GOP will do exactly what the Dems in the Senate did...make sure nothing gets done that the Dems(especially Hilliary Clinton) can take to the voters in the next election.

The stock markets should eat this crap up and I expect big gains in my 401K unless something catastrophic happens in the War on Terror which well might happen since those nut jobs will be embolden by the shift in power. Disclaimer: I am not saying the Dems will enable the terrorists to run amock, all I'm saying is the Islamo-facists will claim they are the reason the GOP lost control of Congress and will try to make an even bigger impact, in their warped style of reasoning, on our nation.

[OklahomaTuba]

Well, Bush did ram this whole phoney war for oil thing down the dims throat after all.

p.s. please, ignore all comments dims made prior to 2003.

[FaninAma]

Well, Bush did ram this whole phoney war for oil thing down the dims throat after all.

p.s. please, ignore all comments dims made prior to 2003.

Yeah! None of the Democrats voted to go into Iraq!

ps. You're sarcasm is noted.

[Widescreen]

OMFG, an illegal alien had a baby right outside my window!

El Niño!!!!!!

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/9782/elninomz8.jpg

[FaninAma]

Oh man, this board is gonna be some entertainin' readin' for the next few days! :D

Quick question: Do the Democrats' victories yesterday mean that America is now anti-American?

This is exactly the kind of comment that really makes the next 2 years likely to be very entertaining now the Dems have to do something other than whine and complain.

The person I would most like to be right now is Joe Lieberman. That guy can name his price. I wonder how the shrew is feeling since she tried to knee cap ol' Joe in the Democratic primaries?

Great stuff headed our way in the next 2 years. :D

[crawfish]

I have a question: if the Dems will have so much power because they control the House, then why do they still blame everything in the 80's on Reagan when they had control of both sides of Congress? :)

[TUSooner]

It took me 10 whole minutes to write that; it ain't going to page 2 without a fight!


:rolleyes:

[Ike]

This is exactly the kind of comment that really makes the next 2 years likely to be very entertaining now the Dems have to do something other than whine and complain.

The person I would most like to be right now is Joe Lieberman. That guy can name his price. I wonder how the shrew is feeling since she tried to knee cap ol' Joe in the Democratic primaries?

Great stuff headed our way in the next 2 years. :D


Yup...Joe probably has a grin a mile wide about now.

[King Crimson]

none of the SO political pundits know who Mencken is/was.:cool:

[TopDawg]

I have a question: if the Dems will have so much power because they control the House, then why do they still blame everything in the 80's on Reagan when they had control of both sides of Congress? :)

Same reason Republicans blame Clinton for stuff?

[TUSooner]

none of the SO political pundits know who Mencken is/was.:cool:


Then I really AM tragically unhip. :(

I even vote Libertarian, too. <shakes head>

:)

[FaninAma]

Joe Lieberman v. Hilliary Clinton = The Jew v. The Shrew.

A battle reminesient of the Thrilla in Manilla.

[usmc-sooner]

OMFG, an illegal alien had a baby right outside my window! And then she went up to the admissions office to pre-enroll it at OU so it would qualify for resident tution! And the she headed off for a gay wedding carrying an "I HATE THE TROOPS" banner!


it begins

[Vaevictis]

Can you give me an example of something being rammed down the Democrat's or anybody else's throat? Of course that doesn't include Barney Frank or Foley for obvious reasons.

Supreme Court justices immediately come to mind. The Dems had enough votes to prevent cloiture, but not enough to prevent the end of the filibuster if it came to that.

The most egregious cases were when the Republican majority would silently change the bills right before people voted on them so that people would vote in laws they didn't even know they were voting in.

(And yeah, it's easy to say, "Well, they should read what they're voting on!", but harder to do when the text gets changed a couple hours before a vote in a 1000 page bill.)

Also the whole, "No, we're not going to provide any oversight whatsoever" thing.

[XingTheRubicon]

I have a question: if the Dems will have so much power because they control the House, then why do they still blame everything in the 80's on Reagan when they had control of both sides of Congress? :)


Well, when "nuckewlar" has his *** kicked back to the ranch in Crawford, then the intellectuals will have the power. 2 years away.

[Mongo]

Well, when "nuckewlar" has his *** kicked back to the ranch in Crawford, then the intellectuals will have the power. 2 years away.

By "intellectuals", do you mean those who make more than Lid?

[usmc-sooner]

the hippies and homo's are dancing in the streets.

[FaninAma]

By "intellectuals", do you mean those who make more than Lid?

Nah, he means those who can talk in flowery, rhyming phrases like Jesse Jackson.

[SicEmBaylor]

We won't get that for about 2 years now. The party that thinks the feds need to be in everything we do is now in control of the house and possibly the senate. Look for more federal control being rammed down our throat.

The GOP was just as bad. Different tune to the same damned dance. I could sit here and list off all the offenses caused to federalism at the hands of the GOP's control of government all day.

Also, perhaps now Bush will...you know...veto something.

[Ike]

Well, when "nuckewlar" has his *** kicked back to the ranch in Crawford, then the intellectuals will have the power. 2 years away.


Unfortunately, this isn't the case. Intellectuals are people smart enough to realize they don't want any part of washington.

[Ike]

The results we got were similar to what I want in an ideal government. Party A in the white house, Party B in control of the house, with the senate nearly spit 50-50 (and thats really what it is with Joe L. as the deciding swing vote in the senate now). Such a configuration makes it nearly impossible for anything to get done without real debate, discussion and compromise...meaning not a lot gets done. Gridlock in washington is the peoples best friend.


Things start to get out of control when one party or the other has full run of the place. Because then they start to think that they should do something. And usually they are wrong.

[dolemitesooner]

now I'm going to have to have to learn to speak Spanish
THATS THE ****ING TRUTH

[bri]

Shouldn't you get the hang of English first? ;)





You're gonna dunk on me for that, aren't you?

[SicEmBaylor]

The results we got were similar to what I want in an ideal government. Party A in the white house, Party B in control of the house, with the senate nearly spit 50-50 (and thats really what it is with Joe L. as the deciding swing vote in the senate now). Such a configuration makes it nearly impossible for anything to get done without real debate, discussion and compromise...meaning not a lot gets done. Gridlock in washington is the peoples best friend.


Things start to get out of control when one party or the other has full run of the place. Because then they start to think that they should do something. And usually they are wrong.

You are absolutely correct.

[BeetDigger]

Nope, but Bush still has the veto. The fact that we have an oppositional government again may force it center.

That's what I'm hoping for anyway.


I don't disagree with the above statement, but your original implication is that the mere fact that the dems have control of congress will result in:


Stick to working on things that are important, and that nobody can argue with -- get the deficit under control, get an Iraq strategy that shows progress (or at minimum demand one!), and get the corruption under control.

Oh yeah, and don't forget their oath of office like the guys they unseated.

Just between you me and the lamp post, the Dems are just as screwed up as, you imply, the Republican's are.

[crawfish]

By "intellectuals", do you mean those who make more than Lid?

I think it means people who know everything in theory and nothing in practice. :D

[TopDawg]

I think it means people who know everything in theory and nothing in practice. :D

So just about everybody in the South Oval is an intellectual when it comes to politics?

[crawfish]

So just about everybody in the South Oval is an intellectual when it comes to (anything)?

Yes, absolutely.

[Vaevictis]

I don't disagree with the above statement, but your original implication is that the mere fact that the dems have control of congress will result in:

Well, what you inferred is not what I intended to imply. That's why I started that comment out with "A move to center is warranted."

IE, it's what should be done, not necessarily what will be done. :)

[sooneron]

certainly

[OU4LIFE]

In a great way.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Heh, I like John McCain's quote:

"Some think that we came to Washington to change government, and government changed us."

Words of wisdom they are.

How nice of McCain to finally look in the mirror after all these years. He's been running the longest failed presidential nomination campaign in the history of the U.S. By 2008, he'll have been running since 1999. Dickwheel.

[usmc-sooner]

So just about everybody in the South Oval is an intellectual when it comes to politics?


most people, probably 99.997% of the people on the South Oval are way below me intellectually, but I make a real effort not to look down on them.

[crawfish]

most people, probably 99.997% of the people on the South Oval are way below me intellectually, but I make a real effort not to look down on them.

As I don't look down on you, either. :cool:

[TUSooner]

Banging head against wall:

Henry Louis Mencken (September 12, 1880 – January 29, 1956), better known as H. L. Mencken, was a twentieth-century journalist, satirist, social critic, cynic, and freethinker, known as the "Sage of Baltimore" and the "American Nietzsche". He is often regarded as one of the most influential American writers of the early 20th century. At one point in his career, he was simultaneously America's favorite pundit and literary critic.

[Tear Down This Wall]

[QUOTE=Vaevictis]

The most egregious cases were when the Republican majority would silently change the bills right before people voted on them so that people would vote in laws they didn't even know they were voting in.
QUOTE]

Gee, that never happened before Republicans took control in 1994. Tip O'Neill anyone? George Mitchell? Tom Foley? Jim Wright? Those blasts from the past jog anyone's memory?

[Vaevictis]

Gee, that never happened before Republicans took control in 1994. Tip O'Neill anyone? George Mitchell? Tom Foley? Jim Wright? Those blasts from the past jog anyone's memory?

He wanted examples of bills being rammed down people's throats, well, that's an example.

That said, it's bull**** no matter who does it.

[bri]

In a great way.

Everyone knows that.

[sanantoniosooner]

Since gdc isn't here, can I play the spek card to claim superiority?

[NormanPride]

How nice of McCain to finally look in the mirror after all these years. He's been running the longest failed presidential nomination campaign in the history of the U.S. By 2008, he'll have been running since 1999. Dickwheel.

Man, you really hate him. Did he kick your dog or something? :P

[jdsooner]

I'm listening to Rush Limbaugh do a melt-down on the radio. He is liberated and no longer has to "carry water for those who do not deserve to have their water carried for them." I would say that Rush thinks the "sky is falling."

He says that Bush will just give in to the libs to make himself look good and increase his approval rating.

[NormanPride]

most people, probably 99.997% of the people on the South Oval are way below me intellectually, but I make a real effort not to look down on them.

I look down on a lot of people. But that's just because I'm 6'5".

[usmc-sooner]

I look down on a lot of people. But that's just because I'm 6'5".

down in front

[Vaevictis]

down in front

Row 28-30, seats 20-30 or so?!? Is that you?!

[NormanPride]

:texan:

[usmc-sooner]

Row 28-30, seats 20-30 or so?!? Is that you?!


geez how many tickets do you think I get? 11 seats and 3 rows?

[Vaevictis]

geez how many tickets do you think I get? 11 seats and 3 rows?

Heh. Nah, there's just some guy in that general area in the section I sit in that yells that from time to time.

[sanantoniosooner]

Heh. Nah, there's just some guy in that general area in the section I sit in that yells that from time to time.
pfffffft

My wife yells "Down in front" all the time.

[Vaevictis]

My wife yells "Down in front" all the time.

:hot:

[NormanPride]

:hot:

You must not be married.

[Vaevictis]

Five years this month. :)

[usmc-sooner]

Five years this month. :)

I thought you were a freshman in college

[Vaevictis]

I thought you were a freshman in college

Heh. Not including thesis, I'm about one semester away from my master's degree.

(Actually, I was a freshman in '97.)

[usmc-sooner]

Heh. Not including thesis, I'm about one semester away from my master's degree.

maybe you posted something about getting a degree and I assumed you were starting college.

this person your married to, female right? :D

[Vaevictis]

this person your married to, female right? :D

Yep. Heh, and if you think I'm a liberal...

[usmc-sooner]

Yep. Heh, and if you think I'm a liberal...


no I thought you were gay hence the married to a female question.








just kidding around with you:D :D

[Vaevictis]

no I thought you were gay hence the married to a female question.

just kidding around with you:D :D

'sok, I don't mind guys like you hitting on me.

I'm secure enough in my heterosexuality that it doesn't make me uncomfortable. :D

[homerSimpsonsBrain]

One of my favorite Mencken Quotes:

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.

[C&CDean]

So, you're singlehandedly gonna get it to 2 pages. I'm cool with that.

[TUSooner]

One of my favorite Mencken Quotes:

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.
We could add, "and endorsed by a large number of posters on the South Oval."
:D

[OUinFLA]

TU, Ill help you move this to two pages,
but you gotta remember to remind Phil to send my Sponsor's gift to the right address this time.

Oh, and what this election means most to me?
I dont have to listen to, watch, or answer the phone to anymore lame a$$ politicians or supporters bashing their opponents for a while.

[C&CDean]

You know what's cool about this election?

All the TV news people will go back to talking about gays, fashion, the environment, and how great the economy is rolling along. Back page for any word on that little operation in the ME. Of course the economy didn't turn great until yesterday...

[Ike]

Aside from the shift in the balance of power, there are some other interesting tidbits to take away from these elections....mostly from the state by state initiatives that were voted on:

a) 6 states had initiatives for raising the minimum wage in their state by at least $1.00. All of these initiatives also had a clause tying the minimum wage to some index for measuring inflation, like the CPI. Every single one of these passed. By overwhelming margins.

b) 9 states had measures on the ballot regarding same-sex marriage. In all of these, except AZ (which is too close to call, per CNN, but the nays are leading so far), the voters voted to either ban it outright, or in the case of colorado, to not grant domestic unions of same sex couples the same rights as married couples. By large margins...except in AZ.

c) 2 states had measures on the ballot regarding abortion. Both of these failed. The SD ban on abortion, and a california parental notification measure.

You can take from these what you will, and granted the overall sense of a people will vary from state to state, but from this I glean the following:

a) Most people believe its time to increase the minimum wage, and perhaps its a good idea to just tie it to inflation through some index.

b) Most people don't like the idea of same sex marriage. Granted, the states that had this on the ballot are typically very red, The margins that these passed by is somewhat astounding. Arizona however, being a near tie, may be either showing off its new, more liberal colors...OR, perhaps the sense of the average voter there is that this is not an issue for government to waste its time with.

c) with abortion, its still a hot button issue, even in a firm red state like SD. I don't know that blanket bans will ever satisfy the electorate by and large anywhere if they don't satisfy the SD electorate. Some bans might, but I think they would have to be grounded by reality (ie, allowing it in cases of rape and incest), or that bans will have to start with late-term abortions before they even have a chance to take hold.

[Scott D]

Michigan has decided to attempt to get rid of Affirmative Action. They've also decided overwhelmingly to fire the first shot across the bow in limiting the extent of Eminent Domain.

[C&CDean]

Michigan has decided to attempt to get rid of Affirmative Action. They've also decided overwhelmingly to fire the first shot across the bow in limiting the extent of Eminent Domain.

Muh****ah, ain't nobody cares what happens in that there Michigan. Ain't nothin' but queers and queers in that Michigan...

[Scott D]

I'd appreciate if you'd quit confusing us with Ohio. Caint be no queers here...we voted that down in 2004 at a rate of like 92% no to gay marraige.

[Jerk]

Ok, in all honesty Tuba I'll ask this. Do you see Iraq as a viable democratic entity without it ending up divided into 3 countries separating the Kurds, Shiites and Sunnis?

I'll answer this question with the correct motherfkn answer.

YES!

Hell YES!

We just need to kill them all, first.

[TopDawg]

the Dems are just as screwed up as, you imply, the Republican's are.

nice caveat

[Sooner98]

http://www.squeezeboxstudios.com/shop%20close/kodos_front.jpg

[Scott D]

that's not a country, that's a vacant lot

[TopDawg]

I'll answer this question with the correct motherfkn answer.

YES!

Hell YES!

We just need to kill them all, first.

I wonder why they don't like us.

[Vaevictis]

I wonder why they don't like us.

It's clearly because of our freedoms.

[bri]

"Tomorrow you're all going to wake up in a brave new world: a world where the constitution gets trampled by an army of terrorist clones, created in a stem-cell research lab run by homosexual doctors who sterilize their instruments over burning American flags." - Stephen Colbert




:D

[C&CDean]

I wonder why they don't like us.

Dude, you make it sound like we wanted to nuke their rag-wearing camel-****ing asses before they began blowing us up. And as for me, I couldn't give a sand flea's *** what they think of me. Not anymore. If they wanted us to play nice they shouldn't have run around crashing airplanes and cutting people's heads off with butter knifes. **** em. Where they breath.

[Jerk]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/dustyc/135392.jpg

Peace on, brutha!

[usmc-sooner]

I wonder why they don't like us.

the last thing I think I'd wonder about standing over a dead terrorist body is "Geeze I wonder if this guy likes me."

[bri]

Like a double cheesburger. ;)

[BeetDigger]

nice caveat


It's not a caveat. Its meant as a "look, who's fooling who here" sort of statement.

[Harry Beanbag]

the last thing I think I'd wonder about standing over a dead terrorist body is "Geeze I wonder if this guy likes me."


Reminds me of a song...


Standing on the beach
With a gun in my hand
Staring at the sea
Staring at the sand
Staring down the barrel
At the arab on the ground
See his open mouth
But I hear no sound

I'm alive
I'm dead
I'm a stranger
Killing an arab

I can turn
And walk away
Or I can fire the gun
Staring at the sky
Staring at the sun
Whichever I choose
It amounts to the same
Absolutely nothing

I'm alive
I'm dead
I'm a stranger
Killing an arab

I feel the silver jump
Smooth in my hand
Staring at the sea
Staring at the sand
Staring at myself
Reflected in the eyes
Of the dead man on the beach
The dead man on the beach

I'm alive
I'm dead
I'm the stranger
Killing an arab

[OUinFLA]

Michigan has decided to attempt to get rid of Affirmative Action. They've also decided overwhelmingly to fire the first shot across the bow in limiting the extent of Eminent Domain.

Florida voted decidedly for somewhat the same issue.
Property obtained by Eminent Domain may not be done so in order to sell it to a private developer. It should be for public use.
It's more wordy than that, but that is the Cliff Notes version.

I think it stems from the day after the US Supreme Court decision last year regarding the Mass. property, there were two developers here in Fla that had some low rent areas in desirable locations condemed by the "new" eminent domain rulling so they could build a slew of high price developments. The county commissioners said it was good for the county as it would significantly increase the property tax roll base.
Of course that was true, but there sure were a bunch of low/fixed income people suddenly faced with having to relocate............oh, and guess what, prices for residences have gone up about 5000% since they bought the ones they were evicted from.
However, the devlopers presold about $140 million in high rises, so all is good.

I do think it pi$$ed off a bunch of people.

[OUinFLA]

Well, I don't want to jump the gun on that one. I learned my lesson after that awkward Gore victory party I threw in 2000. ;)

You should have peem'd me, I would have given you a heads up on that.

[bri]

Well sure, NOW you tell me. ;)

[OUinFLA]

Well sure, NOW you tell me. ;)

I was a little miffed you didnt invite me to your mistake party.

[bri]

Well, in retrospect I see that was a mistake. Which you know, mildly ironic. :D

[OUinFLA]

I dont go to ironing partys.
But thanks anyway.

[C&CDean]

Yes, I'm on a mergeathon. Don't start any new election threads. You're welcome.

[sanantoniosooner]

Yes, I'm on a mergeathon. Don't start any new election threads. You're welcome.
About time slacker.

[olevetonahill]

bump

[sanantoniosooner]

slowest.

merge.

evar.

[bri]

Oh, come on man! My "Sky=Falling" thread wasn't about the election, but rather the tasty meltdown goodness that ensued! ;)

[sanantoniosooner]

I think Dean was afraid to merge all the erections for some reason.

[bri]

:les: DON'T CROSS THE STREAMS!!!

[OUinFLA]

yeah, I havent even received a through appoligy for not being invited to the party that shouldn't have happened, and wouldn't have happened if I had been asked first.

[olevetonahill]

yeah, I havent even received a through appoligy for not being invited to the party that shouldn't have happened, and wouldn't have happened if I had been asked first.
But did you get your koopun yet ?
Man I so want my 49 cent koopun :twinkies:

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Speaking of Stephen Colbert...Did anyone else think the terrorist on the Congratulations Terrorist Cake sort of looked like the Mohammad cartoons.

[TUSooner]

I still marvel at thread mergers.

[sanantoniosooner]

I still marvel at thread mergers.
Dean gave up before he finished the job too.

[FaninAma]

Maybe the Democrats can help them default on the new Contract too!

Fixed.

I've seen you post this a couple of times. Please refresh me on what parts they defaulted on. The courts declared the line item veto unconstitutional. The Dems in the Senate filibustered term limits and the attempt to initiate a Constitutional amendment. Which other parts of the Contract did they not fulfill in 1994?

[FaninAma]

bri, somebody needs to go back and dig up some of the meltdown threads after the 2004 elections. It would be like comparing a tantrum by a 2 year old to an outbusrt by Mother Theresa. But go ahead and enjoy what little "anguish" has been shown by the GOP supporters on the board....for now.

The Democrats are back in power which means the circus is back in town. It will be a very enjoyable 2 years. :D

[bri]

Dude, why would I want to dig up my old threads? :D

[FaninAma]

I see it as a great place, I hope to take the family there for vacation in the near future.

I see Iraq as a win-win in the fight against terrorism. Either the country comes to terms with the opportunity they've been given and a stable democratic government develops as an example for the rest of the region or, more likely, they continue down the road to civil war which is OK with me since the MF's will be fighting each other allowing less resources and efforts to be used against the West.

Every civilized society went through a period of brutality, repression and upheaval before figuring out how to get along without killing or enslaving each other. The US had the Civil War. Western religion had the Inquisition before Luther came out against the Church of Rome.

It's about time the Muslims joined the 21st century and if it takes a period of great turmoil for that religion and their societies to do that then so be it. I don't think the status quo of muslim societies will change without their own "Civil War."

And before anybody defends Islam you need to check out http://savedarfur.org :mad:

[Vaevictis]

I've seen you post this a couple of times. Please refresh me on what parts they defaulted on. The courts declared the line item veto unconstitutional. The Dems in the Senate filibustered term limits and the attempt to initiate a Constitutional amendment. Which other parts of the Contract did they not fulfill in 1994?

Well, the most important one -- which was a campaign issue associated with the Contract but not an actual part of the Contract -- was the implication of propriety. Within 10 years of being in power, they were just as bad as the Democrats were in '94 as far as corruption was concerned.

(Which, if you look at the exit polls, is almost as big an issue as Iraq -- and without that issue, the Republicans probably still control the Senate.)

But as for the Contract itself:

* FIRST, require all laws that apply to the rest of the country also apply equally to the Congress;

-- Remember how the Republican leadership (and the Dems too) had a fit about when the FBI raided Congressional offices?

* SECOND, select a major, independent auditing firm to conduct a comprehensive audit of Congress for waste, fraud or abuse;

-- Tom Coburn ain't an independent auditing firm, and according to my understanding he's the closest thing to this happening in the past few years.

* THIRD, cut the number of House committees, and cut committee staff by one-third;

-- I don't know about this one. Did this ever happen? Keep in mind, until this upcoming January, they've controlled the House for 12 years. This was easily in their power, simply by altering internal House procedures.

* FOURTH, limit the terms of all committee chairs;

-- I think they did manage this for the House early on. I don't think they actually ever attempted this in the Senate... which they could have done -- if they can alter the rules to kill the filibuster on nominees, they can alter the rules to limit the committee chairs.

* FIFTH, ban the casting of proxy votes in committee;

-- Was still happening last I checked. And again, within their power. All it requires is a procedural vote, and thus a simple majority.

* SIXTH, require committee meetings to be open to the public;

-- They violated this six ways to Sunday. According to recent reports I've read, in the House at least, they'd hold an open committee meeting, do nothing, and then find a room to hold the real committee, and do their damnedest to make sure the Democrats couldn't find them. They were shutting out their own colleageus... forget about the public getting in!

* SEVENTH, require a three-fifths majority vote to pass a tax increase;

-- Okay, this one was never really a realistic goal IMO.

* EIGHTH, guarantee an honest accounting of our Federal Budget by implementing zero base-line budgeting.

-- I believe they were still attempting this recently.

Also, if you'll recall, many (if not all) of the signatories of the Contract agreed that they would have a self-imposed term limit of 12 years.

These included DeLay, Foley, Pombo, Doolittle, Barton, Sam Johnson, Lamar Smith, Duncan Hunter, Wally Herger ... meh, after doing Texas and A-California, I'm tired of looking it up.

In any case, there's a buttload of them who were running, ran, or were elected who pledged to oust themselves after 12 years who didn't.

[Widescreen]

Sometimes I wish the Republicans and Democrats would split up into about 30 parties like exist in other countries. It would probably be a bit easier to find a party that more closely aligns with your personal beliefs. I've always been a registered Republican but party loyalties haven't had any meaning for me for awhile now. I'm a conservative and just have to vote Republican for the items I agree with them on and hold my nose with the rest of the BS. I'd much rather see an actual Conservative Party (or preferably several conservative parties since some of them would be so far right, I wouldn't be interested).

[FaninAma]

Well, the most important one -- which was a campaign issue associated with the Contract but not an actual part of the Contract -- was the implication of propriety. Within 10 years of being in power, they were just as bad as the Democrats were in '94 as far as corruption was concerned.

(Which, if you look at the exit polls, is almost as big an issue as Iraq -- and without that issue, the Republicans probably still control the Senate.)

But as for the Contract itself:

* FIRST, require all laws that apply to the rest of the country also apply equally to the Congress;

-- Remember how the Republican leadership (and the Dems too) had a fit about when the FBI raided Congressional offices?

* SECOND, select a major, independent auditing firm to conduct a comprehensive audit of Congress for waste, fraud or abuse;

-- Tom Coburn ain't an independent auditing firm, and according to my understanding he's the closest thing to this happening in the past few years.

* THIRD, cut the number of House committees, and cut committee staff by one-third;

-- I don't know about this one. Did this ever happen? Keep in mind, until this upcoming January, they've controlled the House for 12 years. This was easily in their power, simply by altering internal House procedures.

* FOURTH, limit the terms of all committee chairs;

-- I think they did manage this for the House early on. I don't think they actually ever attempted this in the Senate... which they could have done -- if they can alter the rules to kill the filibuster on nominees, they can alter the rules to limit the committee chairs.

* FIFTH, ban the casting of proxy votes in committee;

-- Was still happening last I checked. And again, within their power. All it requires is a procedural vote, and thus a simple majority.

* SIXTH, require committee meetings to be open to the public;

-- They violated this six ways to Sunday. According to recent reports I've read, in the House at least, they'd hold an open committee meeting, do nothing, and then find a room to hold the real committee, and do their damnedest to make sure the Democrats couldn't find them. They were shutting out their own colleageus... forget about the public getting in!

* SEVENTH, require a three-fifths majority vote to pass a tax increase;

-- Okay, this one was never really a realistic goal IMO.

* EIGHTH, guarantee an honest accounting of our Federal Budget by implementing zero base-line budgeting.

-- I believe they were still attempting this recently.

Also, if you'll recall, many (if not all) of the signatories of the Contract agreed that they would have a self-imposed term limit of 12 years.

These included DeLay, Foley, Pombo, Doolittle, Barton, Sam Johnson, Lamar Smith, Duncan Hunter, Wally Herger ... meh, after doing Texas and A-California, I'm tired of looking it up.

In any case, there's a buttload of them who were running, ran, or were elected who pledged to oust themselves after 12 years who didn't.

I think it the worst form of intellectual dishonesty to imply that all of the failures to completely implement the Contract with America was totally due to failure by the GOP to even try without mentioning that the Dems were obstructionist and totally uncooperative with getting any of the Contract implemented. Even with the bitch-slapped Democratic party screaming like gut shot panthers and acting like oppositional toddlers the GOP implemented most of the Contract.

But hey, we all use selective memory when it supports our opinions.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Well don't promise you will get something done if the dems can block it is my theory. It's like me saying "I will bang Eva Longoria" but then six years later saying well it is her fault for being an obstuctionist. Now I knew from the get go that I wasn't going to bang Eva.

[Vaevictis]

But hey, we all use selective memory when it supports our opinions.

Yep, and your post is a prime example. Blame it all on the obstructionist Dems. About half of the stuff I mentioned as failures either required a simple majority to implement -- which they Republicans have had -- or just required individuals to act appropriately. In such cases, the Democrats had no ability to obstruct -- the Republicans simply chose not to do it.

I will say that they absolutely acted in good faith for the first few years they were in power -- easily up until 1997, arguably up until 1999. You didn't know me then, but I was okay with the Republicans at the time. But when 2000 rolled around, that stopped. And that's when I started having problems with them.

And, as I mentioned, the spirit of the Contract was violated -- the implied promise of acting with propriety -- over the past few years with relative impunity.

The Republican party was perceived by this last election as being no different than what they were initially elected to oust. 36% of those participating in exit polls cited corruption -- again, the main theme of the Contract -- as a major issue.

How many Democratic pickups in the House? 29. How many Senate pickups? 6. IIRC, not a single Democratic incumbent was ousted. It should be pretty obvious who it was that was perceived as corrupt.

Irrespective of success on individual initiatives under the Contract, the overall theme -- fix the corruption in Washington -- obviously was a bust. And that is why I say the Republicans defaulted on it.

[Vaevictis]

Well don't promise you will get something done if the dems can block it is my theory. It's like me saying "I will bang Eva Longoria" but then six years later saying well it is her fault for being an obstuctionist. Now I knew from the get go that I wasn't going to bang Eva.

The thing is, a lot of the stuff, the Dems had no ability to block. Promising to retire after 12 years? Procedural changes that require a simple majority -- which the Republicans had?

After awhile they chose not to restrict the trappings of power because they enjoyed wearing them too damned much.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

Not a helluva lot, according to my recent visitor from another realm:
As I was taking my customary ante-meridien power siesta a moment ago, I was visited by the ghost of H.L. Mencken. The Sage of Baltimore was disappointment to learn that I could not light his long-extinguished cigar and that smoking was not allowed in the buildng anyway. But he gave me his short summary of yesterday's election:

Then he said something about going to play pinochle with Groucho. I wanted to ask him if there was any hope at all, but at that moment, from across the hall, burst forth the aural lobotomy that is Kenny Chesney's voice; evidently Secretary Gong has changed her ring tone again. Kenny howled about "[something, something] on the dashboard" and Henry Louis Mencken's Ghost was gone. I feel empty and sad. I think I'll walk across the street and buy a lottery ticket.

Thank goodness we'll drown before all that comes to pass. And people ask why I want to live below sea level with only the protection of obviously inadequate gub'ment levees.

[FaninAma]

The thing is, a lot of the stuff, the Dems had no ability to block. Promising to retire after 12 years? Procedural changes that require a simple majority -- which the Republicans had?

After awhile they chose not to restrict the trappings of power because they enjoyed wearing them too damned much.

I do agree with you that the GOP was corrupted by the power of being in control of Congress and the Federal purse strings but there was still a lot of obstructionism by the DEMS, especially early after their defeat, and you can excuse obstructionism all you want but until the party out of power is held accountable for standing in the way of good legislation just for political gain then both parties will continue to do it...to the detriment of the country.

And you can bet your last dollar the GOP will be taking a page out of the Dems handbook on how to be obstructionist.

There will be a whole lot of nothing coming out of DC over the next 2 years. The Dems will get nothing of importance out of Congress.

There will be no tax breaks or tax increases. There will be no reform of the tax code. There will be no large troop withdrawal or redeployment from Iraq. There will be no new action on the impeding Medicare and Social Security crisis. There will be no new legislation on health care funding. There will be no new major legislation on immigration reform. There will be no stem cell research bill.

The only important social changes we'll see in the next 2 years will be coming from the SCOTUS.

[Ike]

I do agree with you that the GOP was corrupted by the power of being in control of Congress and the Federal purse strings but there was still a lot of obstructionism by the DEMS, especially early after their defeat, and you can excuse obstructionism all you want but until the party out of power is held accountable for standing in the way of good legislation just for political gain then both parties will continue to do it...to the detriment of the country.

And you can bet your last dollar the GOP will be taking a page out of the Dems handbook on how to be obstructionist.

There will be a whole lot of nothing coming out of DC over the next 2 years. The Dems will get nothing of importance out of Congress.

There will be no tax breaks or tax increases. There will be no reform of the tax code. There will be no large troop withdrawal or redeployment from Iraq. There will be no new action on the impeding Medicare and Social Security crisis. There will be no new legislation on health care funding. There will be no new major legislation on immigration reform. There will be no stem cell research bill.

The only important social changes we'll see in the next 2 years will be coming from the SCOTUS.


See, here's the thing. What you call "obstructionist", I call being a responsible minority party...whether its the Dems or the Republicans. Their consitituents sent them to congress for a reason, and they should fight tooth and nail the things they do not agree with. As much as I hate the modern republican party, I hope upon everything holy that they are obstructionist now that they are in the minority. Thats what they are there for. The situation you describe where nothing gets done...thats what I want to see. That would be perfect. If we really want something meaningful to get done with respect to any of those issues, I think its important to have washington split as it is, so that a solution amicable to everyone can be reached. On many of these issues, sometimes no solution is worse than a bad solution.

[Vaevictis]

My intent is not to excuse obstructionism. I don't believe that the failure to implement the measures in the Contract with America is the problem. That can happen for any number of reasons -- obstructionism, failure to gather a consensus, Presidential veto, whatever.

What I fault the Republicans for is the deliberate abandonment of the Contract. It was, IMO, a good idea and a good philosophy. But, as mentioned, they became corrupt and made a decision to stop trying to follow through on it.