Phantom holding during run of the year [Archive]

boomersooner28

11/5/2006, 05:13 AM

WTF?????? :confused: :confused: :confused:

AP had the college football run of the year (Herbstreit: "Was that Reggie Bush?") and they call a phantom hold on Malcom Kelly?

SoonerTerry

11/5/2006, 05:23 AM

Agreed, it looked like a pancake to me.

boomersooner28

11/5/2006, 05:31 AM

Sorry, but I had to get that out....had people over during the game, then we went to the club....I have been steaming all night about that call. Would have been 24-10 at that point, game over.

Rogue

11/5/2006, 08:37 AM

I was taking a bathroom break and missed it. Mrs. Rogue said that I'd-a-been plenty ****ed-off. Anyone youtube it yet?

BoonesFarmSooner

11/5/2006, 08:39 AM

Agreed, the officiating all night was terrible.

The two back to back 15 yarders, then on the kick off return, aggie hits Iglesias 3 yards out of bounds - NO Call.

The pass interference on Lendy.

The holding call on Kelly.

Spotting the ball on both plays on our last drive....

Big 12 Officiating is Bush League

SoonerDood

11/5/2006, 08:56 AM

I was really surprised Herbie mentioned St. Reggie like that.

soonerloyal

11/5/2006, 08:56 AM

I'm beginning to hate anything in zebra stripes...

sooner518

11/5/2006, 10:00 AM

with the way Birdine was getting all held all night, you'd think they would be consistent and let that go.

zeke

11/5/2006, 10:03 AM

If we get called for taunting, WTF do you call what aggie QB did all night?

Loud mouth, cocky, never done anything, cry baby, throw the ball away jack a$$ aggie QB

stoops the eternal pimp

11/5/2006, 10:05 AM

The thing about the Nic Harris call is that he never seems to be looking at the player or mouthing him..he just celebrated a big hit...

jwlynn64

11/5/2006, 10:10 AM

Can't stand over the player. If he would have done the same thing but just to the side, then it's a no call. As soon as he stood over the player, the flag was going to come out.

CobraKai

11/5/2006, 10:15 AM

Can someone explain to me what a pancake block is? I thought that is what Kelly did, but apparently not.

mrowl

11/5/2006, 10:18 AM

it was holding. go look again.

rhombic21

11/5/2006, 10:30 AM

Yeah, it was pretty blatant holding, and it's what got him to the sideline where he made the great spin move. It was a good call.

Sco

11/5/2006, 10:33 AM

^Agreed. It was definitely holding. I hate to say it on such a beautiful play, but he would never have broken free had Malcolm not held.

booomer

11/5/2006, 10:58 AM

If we get called for taunting, WTF do you call what aggie QB did all night?

Loud mouth, cocky, never done anything, cry baby, throw the ball away jack a$$ aggie QB

I thought he acted like a little punk too......emotion is great, but his actions were pure smack!

rb585

11/5/2006, 11:02 AM

Yeah, it was pretty blatant holding, and it's what got him to the sideline where he made the great spin move. It was a good call.

It was definitely holding in the NFL, but the college refs let stuff worse than that go every possession, so it's a shame they chose to call that one.

Allen Patrick is the man, though! Wow!

CRASH 02

11/5/2006, 11:02 AM

The refs were horrible again last night. But hey they finally messed up one that went our way with the PT touchdown.

Frozen Sooner

11/5/2006, 11:34 AM

Had Patrick cut inside Kelly, that would never get called. When he cut outside, the official HAD to call it-Kelly had two handfuls of jersey and was pulling the guy back from the play.

SoonerLB

11/5/2006, 12:12 PM

As far as I'm concerned, that taunting call on Harris was the turning point of the game. We had great MO going, had them on their heels, and were kickin' butt before that call. I was out of my chair yelling at Bob to take his *** out behind the woodshed! That's the kind of crap that gives the whole team a bad name, and there is absolutely NO excuse for it! And we all know what it led to. And we all know where the MO went after that too.
Also really hated to see Patrick lose what would have un-doubtedly been the "Play of the Week" run, what a shame. Kelly, you go to woodshed too!

RADsooner

11/5/2006, 01:11 PM

yeah sry it was def holding- if you look you see the players jersey stretching where malcolm had hold of it.

stoopified

11/5/2006, 01:14 PM

Sooner_Havok

11/5/2006, 01:21 PM

No doubt it was holding, but there is also no doubt that the aggie hit on Iglesias was late. And yeah, Harris's thing should have been flagged, but so should that stupid piece of **** aggie qb ever time he got up, threw the ball and did his first down thing right in front of OUr players!

bluedogok

11/5/2006, 01:21 PM

Since it was out in open space, it was holding but if that had been in the interior line it wouldn't have been called. Somehow I think if the maroon team had been running that play it would not have been called.

Pepper

11/5/2006, 02:06 PM

Sooner_Havok

11/5/2006, 02:20 PM

You forgot about 3-4 intentional grounding instances never called on A&M.

I was just happy for the one they finally saw. At least 3 more of his passes never crossed the line :rolleyes:

tbl

11/5/2006, 02:24 PM

You forgot about 3-4 intentional grounding instances never called on A&M.
I'd say 5-6. That was amazing that they let it go on so long.

LosAngelesSooner

11/5/2006, 02:40 PM

We gonna get this thing on YouTube?

Any chance?

tulsaoilerfan

11/5/2006, 04:37 PM

Had Patrick cut inside Kelly, that would never get called. When he cut outside, the official HAD to call it-Kelly had two handfuls of jersey and was pulling the guy back from the play.
Agreed, Kelly was holding and it was a good call; i sometimes wonder if some of the people on here are even watching the same game the rest of us are watching. :eek:

Sooner98

11/5/2006, 04:59 PM

You forgot about 3-4 intentional grounding instances never called on A&M.

The intentional grounding no-calls were by far the most obvious botched calls by the refs last night. I don't know yet what it looked like on TV, but at the game, I counted probably five times where there wasn't anyone within 15 yards of where he threw it, and he was still in the box every time. The one time that they did finally call it, was the one where he was actually the closest to being outside the tackles, but then on the VERY NEXT PLAY, he threw it away again, inside the tackles. Of course, no flag was thrown on that one. I was just screaming at the top of my lungs for a flag, but I guess the refs didn't hear me. :mad:

Van Wilder

11/5/2006, 08:06 PM

Sooner98 i am so with you on this one. I was screaming my head off about all of the intentional groundings that should have been called. I couldn't believe how many he got away with so i thought to myself i guess they aren't calling those tonight and then after like the sixth time they call one and your right he was pretty close to getting out of the box. Just cracks me up.

soonersam

11/5/2006, 08:40 PM

They got some serious home cookin and our boys still pulled it out.... I'm proud of them

KingDavid

11/6/2006, 01:22 AM

We gonna get this thing on YouTube?

Any chance?

Somebody already posted it. Search for "spin" and you'll find it. It's pretty close to the front of the board.

StoopTroup

11/6/2006, 01:31 AM

We gonna get this thing on YouTube?

Any chance?
Here.

Thanks to boomer too...

SPIN / Hold? (http://youtube.com/watch?v=I221rUccEEI)

I still think the hold was questionable.

boomersooner28

11/6/2006, 10:18 AM

Ya know, lots of peeps on here are saying it was a definite hold. Maybe I have the wrong camera angle recorded on my DVR, I dont know. Maybe, the camera angle is the wrong angle to even be looking at the play. All in know is that I have watched it over and over and over, and all I see is Malcolm driving some dude into the ground, I don't see a hold.

TheHumanAlphabet

11/6/2006, 10:26 AM

with the way Birdine was getting all held all night, you'd think they would be consistent and let that go.

They were consistent, it was against OU - call it!!! Con-clu-to-the-usive!!

SoonerInKCMO

11/6/2006, 10:29 AM

Damn you people bitch a lot.

birddog

11/6/2006, 10:30 AM

i guess i don't know what a hold is anymore.:(

boomersooner28

11/6/2006, 10:32 AM

Damn you people bitch a lot.

Yes, yes we do. Cause we can.

BoonesFarmSooner

11/6/2006, 10:36 AM

Damn you people bitch a lot.

I personally just expect paid professionals to be competant...

Guess that's too much to ask???

The Maestro

11/6/2006, 12:00 PM

swardboy

11/6/2006, 12:25 PM

I'm shocked that so many OU fans on this thread are calling it a definite hold.

People, you can use your hands when you block...you do know that, right?

Kelly did not keep the defender from moving one way or the other with his hands. That's holding. He was merely driving the guy back and it looks textbook to me. Doesn't matter...we won...but just wiped out potentially the play of the year for us.

Agreed....cut Kelly some slack people, he's probably coached to do exactly what he did: Keep the hands to the inside, grab jersey....only if his arms get outside the defender's body is the hold call made. And it's great to see our receivers downfield going all out to make the plays for the runners. Kudos to Kelly!!

CobraKai

11/6/2006, 12:35 PM

I'm shocked that so many OU fans on this thread are calling it a definite hold.

People, you can use your hands when you block...you do know that, right?

Kelly did not keep the defender from moving one way or the other with his hands. That's holding. He was merely driving the guy back and it looks textbook to me. Doesn't matter...we won...but just wiped out potentially the play of the year for us.

Apparently you, like me, are two of the people that were obviously watching the wrong game. Again, can someone explain what a pancake block is, and clarify whether or not the blocker is allowed to use their hands when executing said block?

soonersam

11/6/2006, 12:37 PM

Reminds me of the alleged holding on Mo Little that called back Demond Parkers TD run in 97. Holding him to 294 yards instead of 357.. Oh yeah we lost 24-27..

TheHumanAlphabet

11/6/2006, 12:52 PM

Could someone please enlighten me?

If it WAS a hold (I don't think so) then what is different about this block and the blocks by linemen when they hold the D-lineman's jersey? Hands were within the shoulders, they were in between the shoulders and waist and he was driving into the block. I don't see a difference.

The Maestro

11/6/2006, 12:55 PM

It's like some people think you have to chicken wing guys to block them. Hands are allowed. Just not to keep the defender from getting away when they are trying. That defender was getting slammed by Kelly...he wasn't held.

Finally...some sanity to this thread.

OklahomaRed

11/6/2006, 12:55 PM

What killed me was flagging us for hitting out of bounds, and then the agroids hit Iglesias 3 yards out of bounds, and nothing ?

It was nice to see the 1 yard short spot get overturned. Finally, a correct call on a review. I would not have been suprised at all to see the spot upheld by the replay booth.

:cool:

rhombic21

11/6/2006, 02:00 PM

TheHumanAlphabet

11/6/2006, 02:19 PM

Things that you are allowed to do at the LOS, you are not allowed to do downfield. That penalty will be called almost everytime, because you could clearly see the jersey being pulled, and the defender would have probably cut AP off from getting to the corner had he not been held by Kelly.

Thanks for the reply, is your comment an opinion or is there a rule that states blocking is different downfield than behind the LOS? I'm wondering. When I blocked - way back when and I think we still used single wire face guards...;) we were taught to block with hands clenched and the arms in the "chicken arm" position as described earlier. If we had blocked with open hands, that was holding. The game has so changed...

rhombic21

11/6/2006, 02:46 PM

Thanks for the reply, is your comment an opinion or is there a rule that states blocking is different downfield than behind the LOS? I'm wondering. When I blocked - way back when and I think we still used single wire face guards...;) we were taught to block with hands clenched and the arms in the "chicken arm" position as described earlier. If we had blocked with open hands, that was holding. The game has so changed...
It's the way that it's called, so it doesn't really matter what the rule says.

According to the "rule", OU's 4th down conversion should have been a penalty because the FB pushed PT forward (similar to Reggie Bush vs ND), but that's a penalty that's never called.

It would have been fine if Malcom had let the guy go as soon as AP got outside his shoulder, but since he kept holding onto him even as AP was running outside the guy who was being held, the ref had no choice but to throw the flag.

boomersooner82

11/6/2006, 02:53 PM

Watch Tech's receivers this Saturday. They do the same thing Kelly did on every play and always get away with it.

noobalicious

11/6/2006, 03:00 PM

b. Holding or illegal obstruction by a teammate of the runner or passer
applies to Rule 9-3-3-a:
1. The hand(s) and arm(s) shall not be used to grasp, pull or encircle in
any way that illegally impedes or illegally obstructs an opponent.
2. The hand(s) or arm(s) shall not be used to hook, clamp or otherwise
illegally impede or illegally obstruct an opponent (A.R. 9-3-3-I).

I.e. not what Kelly was doing. He drove the guy back and then into the ground which is called a solid block. He wasn't restricting lateral movement, the guy wasn't even trying to move laterally - he couldn't because Kelly was driving him back so fast. If anything Kelly put him in better position to make a play...because he was driving him back closer to the running lane.

It was a BS call but we won so I think we can let it slide. We all know it was a TD ;)

bluedogok

11/6/2006, 04:29 PM

It is another one of those "judgement" calls by the officials, 9 times out of 10 if the guy in the maroon uniform does it they don't call it, if the visitors do it it gets called. Just like the taunting crap......

There are 2 types of holding as previously stated, in the trenches and outside, they seem to have very different interpetations. The actual "letter of the rule" really doesn't matter because if they actually followed the "letter of the rule" they would call holding on the o-line on every play and I think we know all too well that officials see what they want to see and call something if they feel like it.

Sooner Sig Ep

11/6/2006, 06:37 PM

If we get called for taunting, WTF do you call what aggie QB did all night?

Loud mouth, cocky, never done anything, cry baby, throw the ball away jack a$$ aggie QB

I kept thinking the same thing. We get flagged for taunting but it's OK for their QB to get up in our players faces and talk his noise?

The holding call was bogus too...

SoonerGM

11/6/2006, 10:22 PM

If anything Kelly put him in better position to make a play...because he was driving him back closer to the running lane.

It was a BS call but we won so I think we can let it slide. We all know it was a TD ;)

this is what it looked like to me as well. kelly actually put the opponent in a better position(on the field) to at least sling his arm out and try to make a play. additionally, the only time it looked like the player was trying to get away(kelly stretching his jersey) was when he started to fall down to the ground.

my opinion, they could have easily not called the penalty. im sorry but there was much worse going on saturday than that "hold"

bluedogok

11/6/2006, 10:28 PM

I personally just expect paid professionals to be competant...

Guess that's too much to ask???
If they are wearing black and white stripes and are on a football field, then yes it is too much to ask.