PDA

View Full Version : the sorriness of U2



mrowl
11/4/2006, 11:04 AM
I agree with trying to save on taxes, but to preach about helping poor nations, and then take away the money for your own homeland is sorry.


http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&refer=home&sid=aef6sR60oDgM

Bono, Preacher on Poverty, Tarnishes Halo With Irish Tax Move

By Fergal O'Brien

Oct. 16 (Bloomberg) -- Bono, the rock star and campaigner against Third World debt, is asking the Irish government to contribute more to Africa. At the same time, he's reducing tax payments that could help fund that aid.

After Ireland said it would scrap a break that lets musicians and artists avoid paying taxes on royalties, Bono and his U2 bandmates earlier this year moved their music publishing company to the Netherlands. The Dublin group, which Forbes estimates earned $110 million in 2005, will pay about 5 percent tax on their royalties, less than half the Irish rate.

``Among the wealthiest people I suppose it's the norm,'' Jill Cassidy, 23, said on South King Street near a plaque marking the site of Dublin's Dandelion market, where U2 played some of its earliest concerts. ``In U2's position, it does come across as quite hypocritical.''

The tax move has tainted the image of Bono, nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize, and U2 at home. Now promoting a new DVD, book and album, the band is fighting back. Lead guitarist David Evans, known as The Edge, earlier this month defended the publishing company's move as a sensible decision for a group that makes 90 percent of its money outside Ireland.

``Our business is a very complex business,'' Evans said Oct. 2 on Dublin radio station Newstalk, breaking the band's silence after weeks of public criticism. ``Of course we're trying to be tax-efficient. Who doesn't want to be tax-efficient?''

As residents of Ireland, members of U2 remain liable for personal income taxes. Any Irish-based companies they control will pay taxes on their profits.

`Poor Example'

Principle Management, U2's management company, declined to comment when Bloomberg asked for a statement from Bono.

Dublin-born Bono has been mentioned as a candidate for Nobel Peace Prize since 2003. The Norwegian Nobel Committee on Oct. 13 awarded the 2006 prize to Bangladeshi banker Muhammad Yunus and Grameen Bank for advancing social and economic development by giving loans to the poor.

Bono, 46, has toured Africa, established the pressure group Debt AIDS Trade Africa and become one of the most vocal supporters of the Make Poverty History campaign. In July 2005, he helped persuade world leaders to double aid for Africa to $50 billion a year by 2010 and erase the debt of the 18 poorest countries on the continent.

``I can see no connection between what he is doing and Make Poverty History,'' said Richard Murphy, a director at U.K.-based Tax Research Ltd. and author of a book called ``Money Matters: Artist's Financial Guide.'' ``He is setting a poor example by his tax affairs.''

`Creative' Income

At a concert last year in Croke Park, Dublin's biggest stadium, Bono appealed to Prime Minister Bertie Ahern to raise overseas aid to 0.7 percent of gross national product by 2007 from 0.5 percent now. The crowd responded by booing Ahern.

The political catcalls have now turned on Bono, whose real name is Paul Hewson.

``It seems odd, in a situation where they enjoy an already favorable tax regime, they would move operations to the Netherlands to get an even more favorable rate,'' said Joan Burton, finance spokeswoman for the opposition Labour Party.

For years, Bono and U2 got a better deal than most Irish taxpayers because songwriters paid no tax on earnings from music publishing. That will change next year, when Ireland limits the tax exemption, which also applies to writers and artists. From Jan. 1, artists that make more than 500,000 euros ($625,450) will pay tax on half their ``creative'' income, according to Ireland's Revenue Authority.

Remaining in Ireland would have forced Bono to pay a 42 percent tax on such earnings. Alternatively, the band could have channeled profits through a company to pay the 12.5 percent corporation tax.

Millennium Goals

Wealthy individuals have put about $11.5 trillion in tax havens around the world, according to a 2005 paper by the London- based Tax Justice Network. Unpaid taxes on those assets could amount to $255 billion, the paper said.

``That's five times the amount needed to achieve the Millennium Development Goals, which Bono says he's really interested in,'' Murphy said, referring to a United Nations plan to eradicate poverty and combat the spread of AIDS. ``My answer is, put your money where your mouth is.''

Some fans accept the band's explanation of its tax planning because U2 has been generous in the past.

``They've paid plenty of money up to now,'' said Peter Cooper, 58, who lives in Bray, near Bono's home in Dalkey. ``I think they are quite right'' to move the company abroad.

Paul McGuinness, the band's manager, said in the Oct. 4 issue of the music magazine Hot Press that Ireland itself had benefited from low taxes. The country's 12.5 percent profit tax - - half the European Union average -- has helped Ireland lure investment from companies such as Intel Corp. and Dell Inc.

That reasoning has done little to help Bono ease criticism of the tax move.

``I don't think it's justified,'' said Sean Lynch, a 28- year-old artist. ``Social conscience is the thing I would like to address to them.''

To contact the reporter on this story: Fergal O'Brien in Dublin at [email protected]

picasso
11/4/2006, 11:09 AM
yep, they'll have to explain themselves.

StoopTroup
11/4/2006, 11:12 AM
Sounds like a good business move to me.

As far as social conscience...I think quite a few people initially and some still do think he's way to involved and should stick to making music.

I think he's done an amazing job at balancing the two and not letting his politcal and personal beliefs affect their business.

The guy is pretty amazing IMO.

picasso
11/4/2006, 11:18 AM
Sounds like a good business move to me.

As far as social conscience...I think quite a few people initially and some still do think he's way to involved and should stick to making music.

I think he's done an amazing job at balancing the two and not letting his politcal and personal beliefs affect their business.

The guy is pretty amazing IMO.
charismatic without a doubt. he's been pro-active in trying to get things done without being a pawn for any individual political types.

mrowl
11/4/2006, 11:42 AM
Sounds like a good business move to me.

As far as social conscience...I think quite a few people initially and some still do think he's way to involved and should stick to making music.

I think he's done an amazing job at balancing the two and not letting his politcal and personal beliefs affect their business.

The guy is pretty amazing IMO.

yes, good business move, but very hypocritical, even more so when asking the government to raise the amount of money they give to overseas aid.

1stTimeCaller
11/4/2006, 11:43 AM
Sounds like a good business move to me.

As far as social conscience...I think quite a few people initially and some still do think he's way to involved and should stick to making music.

I think he's done an amazing job at balancing the two and not letting his politcal and personal beliefs affect their business.

The guy is pretty amazing IMO.

I agree with you and I like Bono and U2.

On another note, why is it good business sense for Ireland to give all of that $ to Africa? Or any other country for that matter? I'm seriously asking as I think there might be one but it seems to be more huminatiarian than business sense.

StoopTroup
11/4/2006, 11:50 AM
I agree with you and I like Bono and U2.

On another note, why is it good business sense for Ireland to give all of that $ to Africa? Or any other country for that matter? I'm seriously asking as I think there might be one but it seems to be more huminatiarian than business sense.
The business sense I was talking about was U2 moving their recording studio.

Ireland still has lots of problems. If moving your business out won't change their minds....

Maybe they should try a good car bombing? ;)

I think they are being pro-active.

They tried to compromise and U2 left the table unhappy so they moved their business to save money.

1stTimeCaller
11/4/2006, 12:35 PM
The business sense I was talking about was U2 moving their recording studio.

Ireland still has lots of problems. If moving your business out won't change their minds....

Maybe they should try a good car bombing? ;)

I think they are being pro-active.

They tried to compromise and U2 left the table unhappy so they moved their business to save money.

Right. But what about a country's business sense? If he wants the country to donate money that doesn't make good business sense to do so and then he makes a good business move and it lessens that country's income well, it just doesn't make sense to me.

I'm just playing Devil's advocate.

Xstnlsooner
11/4/2006, 12:48 PM
I absolutely love U2's music and appreciate alot of what Bono has done
politically in the world, but this is real egg on his face! He's got some
'splainin to do....

handcrafted
11/4/2006, 02:55 PM
At the end of the day, being a musician is a profession, and he's doing what's best for his band, not just him.

BTW U2 totally kicks azz and they are better now than they were in the 80s. Name me one other 80s band who has had more success for a longer time and can still make outstanding music. And do NOT mention John Loser Mellonhead and his silly commercial.

1stTimeCaller
11/4/2006, 02:57 PM
Cyndi Lauper?

handcrafted
11/4/2006, 03:00 PM
Cyndi Lauper?

Dead.

To.

Me.

1stTimeCaller
11/4/2006, 03:04 PM
Ohhhh Handcrafted just wants to have fahunnnun

:D

soonerspiff
11/4/2006, 03:07 PM
REM?

Frozen Sooner
11/4/2006, 03:11 PM
At the end of the day, being a musician is a profession, and he's doing what's best for his band, not just him.

BTW U2 totally kicks azz and they are better now than they were in the 80s. Name me one other 80s band who has had more success for a longer time and can still make outstanding music. And do NOT mention John Loser Mellonhead and his silly commercial.


Not that I think any of these artists are as good as U2 or make what I consider outstanding music, but the following 80s acts are still going strong:

Beastie Boys
Madonna (Yeah, I know, but anything she releases will go platinum)
Metallica

I agree with you that there's nothing wrong with U2 making a smart financial move. I'm not sure I understand why it's hypocrisy to argue that your government should spend money on a particular program while doing what you can to reduce your individual tax burden.

handcrafted
11/4/2006, 03:11 PM
REM?

Yeah, good choice. Although I guess they broke up, because I haven't heard much out of them in years. U2 still be goin' on, tho.

handcrafted
11/4/2006, 03:13 PM
Not that I think any of these artists are as good as U2 or make what I consider outstanding music, but the following 80s acts are still going strong:

Beastie Boys
Madonna (Yeah, I know, but anything she releases will go platinum)
Metallica

I agree with you that there's nothing wrong with U2 making a smart financial move. I'm not sure I understand why it's hypocrisy to argue that your government should spend money on a particular program while doing what you can to reduce your individual tax burden.

True about Madonna. Metallica officially sold out several years ago so I do not count them. The 80s were the height of their creativity.

One weird thing about 'tallica, tho. They really suck live. Their sound on stage is just awful. Unlistenable. They are, or were, a studio band.

Frozen Sooner
11/4/2006, 03:17 PM
Well, yeah, Metallica pretty much sucked on everything after Puppets, but my musical taste isn't the arbiter of commercial viability, more's the pity.

Plenty of meatheads out there who still buy Metallica albums.

soonerspiff
11/4/2006, 03:18 PM
REM is still together, they played a few shows just recently actually, and I've heard rumors of them maybe recording a new album.

And by the way, to suggest that today's U2 is better than the 80's U2 is crazy. Did you listen to "How to Dismantle an Atom Bomb"??? It was awful! Joshua Tree is by far and away the best thing they have ever/will ever make.

Frozen Sooner
11/4/2006, 03:19 PM
I don't think anyone is saying U2 is better now than in the 80s. I liked "How to Dismantle an Atom Bomb" but absolutely-Boy and Joshua Tree are better albums.

soonerspiff
11/4/2006, 03:21 PM
BTW U2 totally kicks azz and they are better now than they were in the 80s. Name me one other 80s band who has had more success for a longer time and can still make outstanding music.


.

1stTimeCaller
11/4/2006, 03:22 PM
U2 is no Tears for Fears but they're aiight.

1stTimeCaller
11/4/2006, 03:23 PM
shout, shout, let it all out
these are the things that you do without
c'mon, I'm talking to you

soonerspiff
11/4/2006, 03:25 PM
everybody wants to rule the world - awesome

Frozen Sooner
11/4/2006, 03:27 PM
.

Well, then, I sit corrected. The statement was just so amazingly incorrect that my brain apparently refused to process it.

handcrafted
11/4/2006, 03:30 PM
Atom bomb was average, but All That You Can't Leave Behind RMFO. "Beautiful Day" could very well be the best song they ever wrote. Top 5 at least, right up there with "Gloria" and "Where the Streets Have No Name."

royalfan5
11/4/2006, 06:16 PM
I agree with you and I like Bono and U2.

On another note, why is it good business sense for Ireland to give all of that $ to Africa? Or any other country for that matter? I'm seriously asking as I think there might be one but it seems to be more huminatiarian than business sense.
It's because they feel guilty about being a protectionist economy, and throw aid dollars at Africa instead of trading with them. It would be better for business if they traded with Africa than gave them aid, but the EU doesn't want free trade. Guilt is the main impetus for most of the EU's aid to Africa.

Cam
11/4/2006, 06:46 PM
Sounds like a good business move to me.

As far as social conscience...I think quite a few people initially and some still do think he's way to involved and should stick to making music.
Agree 100% to both points.


I think he's done an amazing job at balancing the two and not letting his politcal and personal beliefs affect their business.
Disagree 100%. His political beliefs are everywhere in his music. Not saying that it's a bad thing, but saying that he's kept his political side out of his music is just way off base IMO.

And everything from auchtung baby on has been only so-so to me.

Frozen Sooner
11/4/2006, 06:53 PM
It's because they feel guilty about being a protectionist economy, and throw aid dollars at Africa instead of trading with them. It would be better for business if they traded with Africa than gave them aid, but the EU doesn't want free trade. Guilt is the main impetus for most of the EU's aid to Africa.

I may be wrong on this, royalfan, but I think Ireland is one of the least-protectionist members of the EU. I know they've worked extremely hard at attracting foreign investment, which is why Ireland has one of the best economies in Europe.

royalfan5
11/4/2006, 07:02 PM
I may be wrong on this, royalfan, but I think Ireland is one of the least-protectionist members of the EU. I know they've worked extremely hard at attracting foreign investment, which is why Ireland has one of the best economies in Europe.
But they still have to play by the CAP rules. The EU's CAP policy effectively keeps African Agricultral trade out of the EU. The EU's Ag policies are horribly trade distorting, and make our look like chicken feed. You can welcome foreign investment and still be protectionist, look at Brazil, Cargill and Bunge own the ag infrastructure but they still have cut sugarcane by hand because of a 100% tariff on imported farm equipment. The United States does the same thing with ethanol production, we have no problem taking petro-dollars to build ethanol plants, but we tariff the hell out of far more efficient Brazillian ethanol.