View Full Version : What do you folks think of this?
Widescreen
10/31/2006, 04:45 PM
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/10/31/D8L3PSRG0.html
Elvis Soto's variety store used to make money. But few customers have been walking through his door lately, and his merchandise _ calling cards, cell phones, car stereos, clothing _ is collecting dust on the shelves.
With bills mounting, Soto might have to take another job to stay afloat financially, and may even close the store.
On Wednesday, a tough, first-of-its-kind law targeting illegal immigrants goes into effect in this small hillside city in northeastern Pennsylvania. But the evidence suggests many Hispanics _ illegal or otherwise _ have already left.
That, in turn, has hobbled the city's Hispanic business district, where some shops have closed and others are struggling to stay open.
"Before, it was a nice place," said Soto, 27, who came to the United States from the Dominican Republic a decade ago. "Now, we have a war against us. I am legal but I feel the pressure also."
The ordinance, approved by City Council in September, imposes fines on landlords who rent to illegal immigrants and denies business permits to companies that give them jobs. The law empowers the city to investigate written complaints about a person's immigration status, using a federal database.
Mayor Lou Barletta, chief proponent of the new law, contends illegal immigrants have brought drugs, crime and gangs, overwhelming police and municipal budgets. He announced the crackdown in June, a month after two illegal immigrants from the Dominican Republic were charged in a fatal shooting.
At Isabel's Gifts, owner Isabel Rubio said business is so bad that she and her husband have put their house up for sale, moved into an apartment above their store and started dipping into their savings.
"I am in a lot of stress right now," said Rubio, 50, a Colombian who moved to Hazleton 24 years ago. "Every day, we hope to have a good day."
Opponents sued on Monday to block the law and a companion measure, saying they trample on the federal government's exclusive power to regulate immigration.
"These ordinances are nothing more than an officially sanctioned witch hunt," said Cesar Perales, president of the Puerto Rican Legal Defense and Education Fund, a group representing plaintiffs in the case. They include the Hazleton Hispanic Business Association, several illegal immigrants, landlords and a restaurateur.
The mayor said he would fight all the way to the Supreme Court if necessary, saying the ordinance is "as bulletproof as we can get it."
Hispanics began settling in large numbers in Hazleton several years ago, lured from New York, Philadelphia and other cities by cheap housing, low crime and the availability of work in nearby factories and farms. The city, situated 80 miles from Philadelphia, estimates its population has increased from 23,000 to 31,000 over the past six years, with Hispanics now representing 30 percent of the population.
No one knows how many of the new arrivals came to the United States illegally, but assimilating such a large number of people, many of whom speak little English, in such a short amount of time has been difficult.
Many white residents resent the newcomers, complaining about rising crime and overburdened schools. Tensions have flared over relatively minor annoyances such as loud music and double parking.
"You don't like the big-city stuff coming here," said insurance agent Vincent Santopoli, 49, a lifelong resident. "We're not used to it."
Barletta, who has risen from political obscurity to become a darling of anti-illegal immigration activists nationwide, said he sympathizes with struggling Hispanic business owners. But he said the fact their revenues are down is proof the city had a problem with illegal immigration.
"I've said from the beginning my goal was to make Hazleton one of the toughest cities in America for illegal aliens," he said. "Today, if I was an illegal alien, I certainly wouldn't pick Hazleton as my home."
Police Chief Bob Ferdinand said his officers appear to be responding to fewer calls. But on Oct. 20, a legal immigrant from the Dominican Republic was accused of shooting and killing two Hispanic men, one in the country illegally.
Todd Betterly, 37, who was awakened by the gunshots, said the killings are proof the crackdown is necessary.
"There is absolutely nothing wrong with trying to find out who belongs here and who doesn't," he said. "If we could have stopped one murder by knowing where these people are, isn't it worth it?"
A second ordinance going into effect Wednesday requires tenants to register their name, address and phone number at City Hall and pay $10 for a rental permit. Landlords who fail to make sure their tenants are registered can be fined $1,000, plus a penalty of $250 per tenant per day. The goal is to discourage illegal immigrants from even trying to rent in Hazleton.
A 32-year-old Mexican who slipped into the United States nine years ago to find work said he has no intention of registering.
"What is the mayor gaining by this law? I'm not a drug trafficker, I don't run around in gangs. I do my job and I go home to my family," said the married father of two, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of his immigration status.
Pennsylvania native Kim Lopez and her husband, Rudy, a Mexican immigrant, closed their grocery store Oct. 1 after business tailed off dramatically over the summer. They lost more than $10,000 _ their life savings.
"Everyone was running scared and left town," said Lopez, 39. "We had customers who came in who were legal citizens and they didn't want the harassment and hassle and told us they were leaving."
Personally, it's too bad that some businesses are suffering. However, it's the price that must be paid for actually enforcing the law. Maybe I'd feel differently if I was the one having to pay the price but I don't think so. Kudos to the mayor of Hazleton. You know he's been taking some serious heat from the ACLU.
Scott D
10/31/2006, 04:51 PM
The price to be paid is legitimately legal immigrants having businesses that suffer? Why not just ship anyone who isn't a 5th generation or longer proven caucasian shipped out of town? It'd be just as efficient.
OUDoc
10/31/2006, 04:54 PM
Just get here legally, people. Lots of people do it all the time. End of problem.
Widescreen
10/31/2006, 04:58 PM
The price to be paid is legitimately legal immigrants having businesses that suffer? Why not just ship anyone who isn't a 5th generation or longer proven caucasian shipped out of town? It'd be just as efficient.
Like I said, that sucks. But if a significant percent of your clientele are not supposed to be there, that's the unfortunate result. There may be some safety-net that can be brought to bear for local businesses. I hope they're looking into something like that.
Taxman71
10/31/2006, 05:08 PM
First, I feel bad for the guy to come here, work hard, prosper and then face an economic downturn. At least America gave him that opportunity as well as the next one.
Second, this is just supply and demand of a free market. If you customer base is at risk, then you are at risk and you need to adjust your operations. KrispyKreme franchisees had to bear the brunt of the Atkins diet craze. Tobacco companies have to deal with the premature deaths of their customer base.
Third, I anticipated this backlash when the hispanics did their protest in May. Instead of proving how much we needed them, they called our attention to how many of them were here illegally. Since then, immigration enforcement has become the favorite rallying cry of every legislator as evidenced by the new enforcement statutes and virtually every political ad. Whoever initiated that protest did a disservice to that community. Who thinks a public protest is good when you spend the other 364 days a year pretending like you are not here.
StoopTroup
10/31/2006, 05:11 PM
I remember when many a Russian or East German would defect here and nobody cared whether or not they were illegal.
They asked for refuge and we usually said yes.
Now people come into this Country expecting to come and go as they please.
It's not OK.
Ask to become a citizen and you'll be able to be apart of one of the greatest countries in the world.
If you aren't registared...you'll be deported.
TexasSooner01
10/31/2006, 05:12 PM
Houston has passed new laws too. Now if a Hispanic gets pulled over and is charged w/any type of citation or criminal activity, the PD gets to check their status. If they are illegal they get deported.
It is a good idea. If they want to live here become a citizen.
Mjcpr
10/31/2006, 05:13 PM
Think of how the liquor store owners must be suffering.
GottaHavePride
10/31/2006, 05:13 PM
The thing is, those people asking to defect usually DID attempt to become citizens. Illegal aliens don't.
TexasSooner01
10/31/2006, 05:14 PM
Think of how the liquor store owners must be suffering.
Landscaping Companies too
Taxman71
10/31/2006, 05:20 PM
I remember when many a Russian or East German would defect here and nobody cared whether or not they were illegal.
They asked for refuge and we usually said yes.
The 1980's were a simplier time:
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005QCTY.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
mdklatt
10/31/2006, 05:26 PM
Houston has passed new laws too. Now if a Hispanic gets pulled over and is charged w/any type of citation or criminal activity, the PD gets to check their status.
This is a new law? And you can get a driver's license if you're illegal? :confused:
Vaevictis
10/31/2006, 05:30 PM
If you want to go after illegal immigration, this is how you have to do it: Go after the businesses that support it.
And they need to do more than just deny permits. They need to start passing/using fruits-of-illegal-activity. You make a habit of hiring illegal immigrants, the profits of the illegal activity should be subject to seizure.
But this is not a bad start.
KABOOKIE
10/31/2006, 05:31 PM
The price to be paid is legitimately legal immigrants having businesses that suffer? Why not just ship anyone who isn't a 5th generation or longer proven caucasian shipped out of town? It'd be just as efficient.
Or we could just let anybody come here, earn a living, use our resources and not pay taxes. By golly it's the goodly neighbor thing to do!
sanantoniosooner
10/31/2006, 05:32 PM
Pawn shops may have to find a new supply line down here.
TexasSooner01
10/31/2006, 05:51 PM
This is a new law? And you can get a driver's license if you're illegal? :confused:
Yes they can, not a real one. Where I work I see illegals stage car accidents and sue insurance companies, they have ss#'s and dl#'s. Granted that when we investigated further they were fake, but that dosent stop them from using them. Lots of illegals on the roads w/o insurance too!
Hope it works, get legal or GET OUT!!!!
TexasSooner01
10/31/2006, 05:53 PM
If you want to go after illegal immigration, this is how you have to do it: Go after the businesses that support it.
And they need to do more than just deny permits. They need to start passing/using fruits-of-illegal-activity. You make a habit of hiring illegal immigrants, the profits of the illegal activity should be subject to seizure.
But this is not a bad start.
I agree! Maybe a hefty fine too! :D
1stTimeCaller
10/31/2006, 06:06 PM
The price to be paid is legitimately legal immigrants having businesses that suffer? Why not just ship anyone who isn't a 5th generation or longer proven caucasian shipped out of town? It'd be just as efficient.
quit trying to make this a racial issue. That's not fair and it makes you look like Tuba when he posts pictures of the World Trade Center on fire when talking about social security issues.
royalfan5
10/31/2006, 06:16 PM
If we crack down on illegal immigrants, I don't want to hear any complaining about produce being more expensive and less plentiful, along with meat and dairy products as well. Just to be clear on that.
sanantoniosooner
10/31/2006, 06:16 PM
If we crack down on illegal immigrants, I don't want to hear any complaining about produce being more expensive and less plentiful, along with meat and dairy products as well. Just to be clear on that.
Are you suggesting that we eat Mexicans?
Vaevictis
10/31/2006, 06:18 PM
Are you suggesting that we eat Mexicans?
It's just a modest proposal.
Widescreen
10/31/2006, 06:19 PM
If we crack down on illegal immigrants, I don't want to hear any complaining about produce being more expensive and less plentiful, along with meat and dairy products as well. Just to be clear on that.
I've never been a big fan of produce anyway. Don't mess with my meat, though.
That didn't come out exactly the way I intended.
sanantoniosooner
10/31/2006, 06:20 PM
I hear they're a bit gamey.
Vaevictis
10/31/2006, 06:20 PM
If we crack down on illegal immigrants, I don't want to hear any complaining about produce being more expensive and less plentiful, along with meat and dairy products as well. Just to be clear on that.
The flip side of my views is that I think we should license guest workers at a competitive price, and have an an open license policy -- unless you're a criminal or a "security risk" (vague, I know, but it needs to be addressed), you get one with no other questions asked.
royalfan5
10/31/2006, 06:25 PM
The flip side of my views is that I think we should license guest workers at a competitive price, and have an an open license policy -- unless you're a criminal or a "security risk" (vague, I know, but it needs to be addressed), you get one with no other questions asked.
As long as we have that labor supply, I'm happy.
mdklatt
10/31/2006, 06:56 PM
quit trying to make this a racial issue.
It may not be a racial issue, but it's certainly a "they don't speak English real good" issue. I never hear anybody mention beefing up the Canadian border.
sanantoniosooner
10/31/2006, 07:01 PM
It may not be a racial issue, but it's certainly a "they don't speak English real good" issue. I never hear anybody mention beefing up the Canadian border.
You think language is the main reason?
I feel bad for the guy, but thats life. I'm sure his hispanic brethren have started re-locating to a locale with more lax laws.
As far as the law goes...I'm fine with it with one exception. The penalty for renting to an illegal immigrant. I think its retarted to expect landlords to verify someones legal status, and likewise think its a bad idea to deny anyone legal or not, a place to sleep.
Scott D
10/31/2006, 07:04 PM
quit trying to make this a racial issue. That's not fair and it makes you look like Tuba when he posts pictures of the World Trade Center on fire when talking about social security issues.
I'm not making it a racial issue, it already was one. Until you start reading about Georges from Armenia or Francois from Paris being deported for being illegal aliens, how can it be anything but? Blame the media for only pointing out those whom are hispanics as being the ones taking the brunt of it. They ignore the illegal Chinese flooding into the country unless they are trying to win an award by writing an expose on sweatshops.
Scott D
10/31/2006, 07:05 PM
Or we could just let anybody come here, earn a living, use our resources and not pay taxes. By golly it's the goodly neighbor thing to do!
I get it...let's penalize LEGAL citizens who went through the process. Why don't you the hater of cops get in line to get barcodes on the back of your hand so that you can be more easily monitored by the government as well.
1stTimeCaller
10/31/2006, 07:16 PM
I'm not making it a racial issue, it already was one. Until you start reading about Georges from Armenia or Francois from Paris being deported for being illegal aliens, how can it be anything but? Blame the media for only pointing out those whom are hispanics as being the ones taking the brunt of it. They ignore the illegal Chinese flooding into the country unless they are trying to win an award by writing an expose on sweatshops.
sure you are. did you not post that or did the media post that for you?
I understand your point on the media but why fall in with their message? If those other nationals are not being deported at all then you have a point.
1stTimeCaller
10/31/2006, 07:18 PM
this is no different than when the drinking age was raised to 21. I'm sure some publicans did not like losing out on the 18-20 crowd and lost revenue.
Scott D
10/31/2006, 08:11 PM
sure you are. did you not post that or did the media post that for you?
I understand your point on the media but why fall in with their message? If those other nationals are not being deported at all then you have a point.
Eh, I was being more sarcastic in my first post than anything. It's the Natalie Holloway syndrome imo in regards to immigration and 'illegals'.
Rogue
10/31/2006, 08:25 PM
I honestly think the root of this is a racial issue.
Who would Jesus deport?
sanantoniosooner
10/31/2006, 08:39 PM
I honestly think the root of this is a racial issue.
Who would Jesus deport?
To be more specific I would suggest it's a cultural issue.
Rogue
10/31/2006, 08:41 PM
Fair enough. Flame extinguisher.;)
Scott D
10/31/2006, 09:04 PM
he'd deport the French..duh :D
KABOOKIE
10/31/2006, 09:29 PM
I get it...let's penalize LEGAL citizens who went through the process. Why don't you the hater of cops get in line to get barcodes on the back of your hand so that you can be more easily monitored by the government as well.
1) I hate cops who write nit-nack speeding tickets.
2) I don't need a bar code. I pay ****ing taxes and the gov'munt knows exactly where I am.
3) Reach much?
KABOOKIE
10/31/2006, 09:32 PM
I'm not making it a racial issue, it already was one. Until you start reading about Georges from Armenia or Francois from Paris being deported for being illegal aliens, how can it be anything but? Blame the media for only pointing out those whom are hispanics as being the ones taking the brunt of it. They ignore the illegal Chinese flooding into the country unless they are trying to win an award by writing an expose on sweatshops.
Yep. Only them Messican needs a deportin'. Georges and Francois are good law abidin' white folk and we don't need any more color'd round these parts. Unless they is Chinese. Because them some good peoples right there. :rolleyes:
Vaevictis
10/31/2006, 09:46 PM
I'm not making it a racial issue, it already was one. Until you start reading about Georges from Armenia or Francois from Paris being deported for being illegal aliens, how can it be anything but?
... back in the early part of the last century, it was the Irish and the Chinese. Why? Because they were the most visible , most common.
And so it is with the Hispanics today: They are the most common, most visible immigrants.
It ain't so much a racial issue as it is an anti-immigrant issue. It crops up every so often in the USA, it's just part of the national character. It may look like a "racial" issue, but it's really just a "different" issue.
Mongo
10/31/2006, 09:56 PM
... back in the early part of the last century, it was the Irish and the Chinese. Why? Because they were the most visible , most common.
And so it is with the Hispanics today: They are the most common, most visible immigrants.
It ain't so much a racial issue as it is an anti-illegal-immigrant issue. It crops up every so often in the USA, it's just part of the national character. It may look like a "racial" issue, but it's really just a "illegal" issue.
fixed
Widescreen
11/1/2006, 12:57 AM
... back in the early part of the last century, it was the Irish and the Chinese. Why? Because they were the most visible , most common.
And so it is with the Hispanics today: They are the most common, most visible immigrants.
It ain't so much a racial issue as it is an anti-immigrant issue. It crops up every so often in the USA, it's just part of the national character. It may look like a "racial" issue, but it's really just a "different" issue.
As Mongo said, its an illegal-immigrant issue. I really have gotten tired of people trying to characterize those of us who favor strong border security as being anti-immigrant. Most of these people are not truly immigrants. They are largely here to either sponge off our tax dollars, or, at best, send money back to their native country. And I frankly dont care where they are from - it just happens that, living in Texas, most of the illegals are from somewhere south of the US.
Oh, and when my great-grandfather came to the US from Ireland, he was definately descriminated against. But he worked hard, learned the language (;)) and became a citizen as quickly as he could. He wanted to be an American more than anything.
Vaevictis
11/1/2006, 01:13 AM
I'm willing to buy that on an individual basis. For you specifically, it may not be an anti-immigrant issue. For certain individuals, it may just be the issue that it's illegal immigration.
But in general, I'll just say that based on the history of this country and some of the rhetoric -- Oh no! They're taking American jobs away! Where have we heard that before? Right, in reference to the Irish. -- I'm going with my gut, which says that a large portion of the people up in arms over the issue have anti-immigrant notions at the root of it.
KABOOKIE
11/1/2006, 09:10 AM
Yes, because Americans are just dying to work the stawberry fields. Those Mexicans are taking good paying jobs from us 'Mericans. I think your gut needs to look at the finacial and resource drain it's putting on the American tax payers.
MamaMia
11/1/2006, 09:34 AM
Did the Senate really vote to allow illegal aliens access to Social
Security benefits? I'm not real good about watching the news, but had heard that, and found it hard to believe.
Scott D
11/1/2006, 09:59 AM
Did the Senate really vote to allow illegal aliens access to Social
Security benefits? I'm not real good about watching the news, but had heard that, and found it hard to believe.
Why? you expect elected officials in Washington to do anything good or useful?
Yes, because Americans are just dying to work the stawberry fields. Those Mexicans are taking good paying jobs from us 'Mericans. I think your gut needs to look at the finacial and resource drain it's putting on the American tax payers.
I question whether or not the illegal immigrant population is really putting a financial and resource drain on our country and economy. Yes, this certainly is the case in SOME areas. Their kids use our education system, they may use our health care system, etc. However, we must recognize that they also make economic contributions to this country. Cheap labor allows us to produce cheaper food, which affects everyone. cheaper food means that families can afford to spend more on housing and luxury items...In other words, their contribution in that area basically propogates throughout the rest of the economy.
So while I will give you that they are a drain in some areas, I am not yet convinced that they are a net drain on our economy and resources. I'll need more data to be convinced of that.
Frozen Sooner
11/1/2006, 11:56 AM
Or we could just let anybody come here, earn a living, use our resources and not pay taxes. By golly it's the goodly neighbor thing to do!
That sounds suspiciously like the official platform of the Republican Party, actually.
I can't get past the word "ILLEGAL". These people aren't here legally. People who do things illegally usually have no reason for my support. Come back when you enter legally.
yermom
11/1/2006, 12:30 PM
the big thing that sticks with me is that if they drive, they are basically guaranteed to be uninsured motorists, you are basically ****ed if they hit you. i wish i could drive around with no ID and/or a fake identity, maybe i should find someone that gives out these fake IDs and become Hugo Reyes or something and ditch my credit card companies
my other problem is that they aren't here to be Americans, if you want to be an American, live the American Dream, etc... STOP WAVING THE MEXICAN FLAG!
i have no problem with Mexicans, or Hispanics in general, or even the Spanish language. their culture has been mixing with ours for some time (mmm...Ted's)
if Mexico wants to fight us on border stuff so much, maybe we should make them states 51-60 or something ;)
RACIST!!!!!!!!!
I agree 100%:D
mdklatt
11/1/2006, 12:54 PM
You think language is the main reason?
Lanugage/cultural differences are more of a reason than people want to admit. Calling for our official language to be English and complaining about a Spanish version of the national anthem has nothing to do with illegal immigration.
Lanugage/cultural differences are more of a reason than people want to admit. Calling for our official language to be English and complaining about a Spanish version of the national anthem has nothing to do with illegal immigration.
It has to do with assimulation(?), Why not learn engrish and try to fit in with society? Why do gov., cities, businesses have to cater to a group of people that have no desire to join the "melting pot"? They want to make it Mexico Norte.
the big thing that sticks with me is that if they drive, they are basically guaranteed to be uninsured motorists, you are basically ****ed if they hit you. i wish i could drive around with no ID and/or a fake identity, maybe i should find someone that gives out these fake IDs and become Hugo Reyes or something and ditch my credit card companies
my other problem is that they aren't here to be Americans, if you want to be an American, live the American Dream, etc... STOP WAVING THE MEXICAN FLAG!
i have no problem with Mexicans, or Hispanics in general, or even the Spanish language. their culture has been mixing with ours for some time (mmm...Ted's)
if Mexico wants to fight us on border stuff so much, maybe we should make them states 51-60 or something ;)
Making them states would just take all the fun out of a "Mexican" vacation, though...naw I'm sayin'?
royalfan5
11/1/2006, 01:06 PM
I think people wildly overestimate how fast European Immigrants assimilated into American Culture. Most of the first generation of my family in America spoke nothing but German most of the time. It was easy for them to since they lived among other German immigrants on the plains. It's the second and third generations that truly assimilate, not the first. I think it is naive to expect Hispanic immigrants to be different than European immigrants were.
yermom
11/1/2006, 01:09 PM
Making them states would just take all the fun out of a "Mexican" vacation, though...naw I'm sayin'?
we still go to Vegas :D
I have seen first and second generation still speaking spanish in grade school. That is not being naive. The immigrants need to learn enough english to get by, and not use their kids as translators. To fully function in society, you need to learn the respective language.
Any asian, eastern European immigrant has learned enough english to get by, yes they butcher it, but still they are trying. Mexicans dont try.
mdklatt
11/1/2006, 01:13 PM
I question whether or not the illegal immigrant population is really putting a financial and resource drain on our country and economy. Yes, this certainly is the case in SOME areas. Their kids use our education system, they may use our health care system, etc.
Assuming they're getting paid under the table, the only taxes illegal aliens aren't paying are payroll and income tax. Schools in most places are funded by local property taxes, so unless they're squatters, illegals are paying for schools. They also can't get out of paying sales taxes, which pay for a lot of other local services that they're supposedly "stealing". In states with no income tax, like Texas, the only taxes illegals don't pay are federal taxes. If you believe the pubz, the less taxes we pay to the goverment the more money it makes, so I don't see what the problem is. :rolleyes:
Like you, I think we need to take a comprehensive look at the economic costs and benefits of the illegal immigrants who are here before we just throw them under the bus.
mdklatt
11/1/2006, 01:15 PM
It has to do with assimulation(?), Why not learn engrish and try to fit in with society? Why do gov., cities, businesses have to cater to a group of people that have no desire to join the "melting pot"? They want to make it Mexico Norte.
So you're against all Mexican immigrants, not just the illegal ones.
Widescreen
11/1/2006, 01:16 PM
I agree 100%:D
RACIST!!!!!!!!!
:D
So you're against all Mexican immigrants, not just the illegal ones.
Nice stretch Armstrong, off by a mile. What did you hope to prove with this ASSumption?
I have seen first and second generation still speaking spanish in grade school. That is not being naive. The immigrants need to learn enough english to get by, and not use their kids as translators. To fully function in society, you need to learn the respective language.
Any asian, eastern European immigrant has learned enough english to get by, yes they butcher it, but still they are trying. Mexicans dont try.
YEAH!!!
...stupid, lazy Mexicans...
:rolleyes:
mdklatt
11/1/2006, 01:23 PM
Nice stretch Armstrong, off by a mile.
Yeah, where did I ever get that crazy idea?
Why not learn engrish and try to fit in with society? Why do gov., cities, businesses have to cater to a group of people that have no desire to join the "melting pot"? They want to make it Mexico Norte.
Do you think every legal Mexian immigrant speaks fluent English?
Like I have said in a couple of posts "he who picks out only what he wants" is to learn enough to get by, and not make a nation bend over backwards to accomodate.
royalfan5
11/1/2006, 01:26 PM
I have seen first and second generation still speaking spanish in grade school. That is not being naive. The immigrants need to learn enough english to get by, and not use their kids as translators. To fully function in society, you need to learn the respective language.
Any asian, eastern European immigrant has learned enough english to get by, yes they butcher it, but still they are trying. Mexicans dont try.
Most Eastern European and Asian countries also teach English extensively in their educational systems. The Mexican immigrants tend not to have the same educational background.
Sooner_Bob
11/1/2006, 01:31 PM
Learn our language so you can better function in society and not be a danger to yourself or those around you.
Move to the US and improve your life. Heck, even help improve the community you're living in. Feel free to send money back to where ever it is you came from so your family can join you.
Just do it legally.
Now as far as those who have done it legally and are going to suffer do to some new immigration law, tons of businesses have faced similar situations in the past and some went under. Why treat hispanic businesses any differently because they are affected by this law and not because of a Wal-Mart or Target moving in to town?
mdklatt
11/1/2006, 01:31 PM
Like I have said in a couple of posts "he who picks out only what he wants" is to learn enough to get by, and not make a nation bend over backwards to accomodate.
I still don't see what this has to do with illegal immigration.
crawfish
11/1/2006, 01:32 PM
Assuming they're getting paid under the table, the only taxes illegal aliens aren't paying are payroll and income tax. Schools in most places are funded by local property taxes, so unless they're squatters, illegals are paying for schools. They also can't get out of paying sales taxes, which pay for a lot of other local services that they're supposedly "stealing". In states with no income tax, like Texas, the only taxes illegals don't pay are federal taxes. If you believe the pubz, the less taxes we pay to the goverment the more money it makes, so I don't see what the problem is. :rolleyes:
Like you, I think we need to take a comprehensive look at the economic costs and benefits of the illegal immigrants who are here before we just throw them under the bus.
Or: we could fix the process to make it easier for immigrants to come into the country LEGALLY.
This would be a good thing, even for the illegals. Eventually, somebody is gonna come across the border illegally and do something very, very, very bad on a grand scale and they'll have no choice but to shut the entire thing down.
I still don't see what this has to do with illegal immigration.
They dont care for our nation's laws of immigration, DOT laws, and social programs, therefore they dont care to assimilate and learn our language.
But what the **** do I know, I am against hispanic immigration:rolleyes:
Or: we could fix the process to make it easier for immigrants to come into the country LEGALLY.
This would be a good thing, even for the illegals. Eventually, somebody is gonna come across the border illegally and do something very, very, very bad on a grand scale and they'll have no choice but to shut the entire thing down.
I agree with this solution, and why I also agree that we shouldn't be so quick to throw them (the illegals) under a bus. How many of those would love to be here legally? I don't know, but I reckon its a lot of them. Perhaps they should still pay some retribution for entering illegally, but those that want to become legalized should be afforded the opportunity to do so.
They dont care for our nation's laws of immigration, DOT laws, and social programs, therefore they dont care to assimilate and learn our language.
But what the **** do I know, my posts make me sound like an ignorant xenophobe:rolleyes:
FIXED!
Stereotype much?
Vaevictis
11/1/2006, 01:46 PM
Yes, because Americans are just dying to work the stawberry fields. Those Mexicans are taking good paying jobs from us 'Mericans.
So, if no American wants these jobs, why do I hear people saying, "But they're taking jobs!" Not necessarily on this board mind you, but on the radio and on TV.
FIXED!
Stereotype much?
Please explain!!
Please explain!!
Try not to overgeneralize about an entire race of people, or paint them with the same stereotype of an image you assume to be true of all Mexicans, and you might get your posts taken a little more seriously.
There are 100 million Mexicans, and I'm pretty sure that not all of them hate America and want to drown it's kittens. Or steal healthcare from us...
Try not to overgeneralize about an entire race of people, or paint them with the same stereotype of an image you assume to be true of all Mexicans, and you might get your posts taken a little more seriously.
There are 100 million Mexicans, and I'm pretty sure that not all of them hate America and want to drown it's kittens. Or steal healthcare from us...
Thanks, but i dont need you validation for my posts to be taken seriously or not. I wont overgeneralize a race if you dont overgeneralize your opinion of me (ignorant xenophobe) from a couple of post I have made, OK Pumpkin, now **** off.
Widescreen
11/1/2006, 02:02 PM
There are 100 million Mexicans, and I'm pretty sure that not all of them hate America and want to drown it's kittens. Or steal healthcare from us...
You don't know that for a fact though, do you?
;)
mdklatt
11/1/2006, 02:05 PM
Or: we could fix the process to make it easier for immigrants to come into the country LEGALLY.
That's the best solution. If we're really at "full employment" like the government tells us, we need these people.
Eventually, somebody is gonna come across the border illegally and do something very, very, very bad on a grand scale and they'll have no choice but to shut the entire thing down.
We stopped somebody trying crossing the border to do bad things a few years ago. The Canadian border. Yet where are we devoting all of our attention? Mexico. If there are half a million Muslims living in Canada, I bet that's half a million more than live in Mexico. Mexico is seperated from the US by the inhospitable Sonoran Desert. Saskatchewan is seperated from North Dakota by wheat fields. Any attempt to link illegal immigration to national security is bull**** unless we also do something about the longest border we have.
Tear Down This Wall
11/1/2006, 02:07 PM
Just get here legally, people. Lots of people do it all the time. End of problem.
Yes. Exactly. My wife is a Mexican from Mexico - not one of these half-assed Hispanic Americans in LULAC and LaRaza - and she came here legally.
Yes, it's no cakewalk to immigrate legally, but it shouldn't be. This isn't Mexico. It's America. We've got the right to pass and enforce our own laws.
What Mexico needs to do is quit f'ing around and take care of its own people. The idiot leftists in America are so busy attacking legitimate companies in America that provide jobs and keep inflation low that they don't even look south of the border to see what real business and political corruption looks like.
I mean, seriously, think of this...
We've got idiot leftist in America hounding Wal-Mart on one hand and screaming for amnesty for illegals on the other.
Dear Idiot American Leftists:
The reason there are illegals here in the first place is that the aren't enough businesses like Wal-Mart in Mexico to employ people! Not even close. And, worse, the rich business owners in Mexico don't care. Go protest the Mexican government, morons. They are the ones who have driven their poor up here. It is the Mexican government's responsibility to take care of its people, not ours.
That's the best solution. If we're really at "full employment" like the government tells us, we need these people.
We stopped somebody trying crossing the border to do bad things a few years ago. The Canadian border. Yet where are we devoting all of our attention? Mexico. If there are half a million Muslims living in Canada, I bet that's half a million more than live in Mexico. Mexico is seperated from the US by the inhospitable Sonoran Desert. Saskatchewan is seperated from North Dakota by wheat fields. Any attempt to link illegal immigration to national security is bull**** unless we also do something about the longest border we have.
I agree with you that both borders need to be secured, but he Canadian gov. isnt handing out pamphlets to its citizens on how to get in to the US for the sole purpose for work and economical reasons.
Thanks, but i dont need you validation for my posts to be taken seriously or not. I wont overgeneralize a race if you dont overgeneralize your opinion of me (ignorant xenophobe) from a couple of post I have made, OK Pumpkin, now **** off.
You are certainly right about that. You *don't* need my validation or anybody else's for that matter.
Condescending Sooner
11/1/2006, 03:24 PM
It may not be a racial issue, but it's certainly a "they don't speak English real good" issue. I never hear anybody mention beefing up the Canadian border.
The last I checked, we weren't being overran with Canadians.
The last I checked, we weren't being overran with Canadians.
Yes, we are...you just don't notice it because they blend in. In fact, there are 3 of them working within 50 ft of me right now. Its hard to tell though because they have deviously learned to trim back their usage of the word "aboot"
yermom
11/1/2006, 03:30 PM
have they apologized for Bryan Adams yet? :mad:
Condescending Sooner
11/1/2006, 03:33 PM
Yes, we are...you just don't notice it because they blend in. In fact, there are 3 of them working within 50 ft of me right now. Its hard to tell though because they have deviously learned to trim back their usage of the word "aboot"
How many are there? Are they illegal? If they are, are you admitting your company hires illegal aliens?
How many are there? Are they illegal? If they are, are you admitting your company hires illegal aliens?
they aren't hired by my company. they are hired by other universities at the lab in which I work.
and no, I don't think any of them are illegal.
But they are canadian, and here with the express purpose of stealing our cheese.
Scott D
11/1/2006, 03:38 PM
Ike, you never know when there could be a shortage of Poutine :D
have they apologized for Bryan Adams yet? :mad:
They tell me they won't do so until I apologize for GWB. since I will do no such thing, we've got ourselves a mexinadian standoff.
Vaevictis
11/1/2006, 03:52 PM
But they are canadian, and here with the express purpose of stealing our cheese.
One thing's for sure: They definitely don't want our beer.
crawfish
11/1/2006, 03:58 PM
I don't want to be a Canadian idiot.
One thing's for sure: They definitely don't want our beer.
no, they really don't.
Widescreen
11/1/2006, 04:11 PM
Gee, what a surprise. The ACLU sued to block the law from taking effect. :rolleyes:
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/11/01/D8L4BC3O0.html
A federal judge on Tuesday blocked the city of Hazleton from enforcing a pair of ordinances targeting illegal immigrants, just hours before the measures were to go into effect.
The measures, approved by City Council last month, would have imposed fines on landlords who rent to illegal immigrants and denied business permits to companies that give them jobs. They also would have required tenants to register with City Hall and pay for a rental permit.
U.S. District Judge James Munley ruled that landlords, tenants and businesses that cater to Hispanics faced "irreparable harm" from the laws and issued a temporary restraining order blocking their enforcement.
"We find it in the public interest to protect residents' access to homes, education, jobs and businesses," he wrote in a 13-page opinion.
Hispanic groups and the ACLU sued Hazleton on Monday, contending that the laws trample on the federal government's exclusive power to regulate immigration.
The plaintiffs include the Hazleton Hispanic Business Association, landlords, a restaurateur and several illegal immigrants facing eviction, including children who attend public schools.
Mayor Lou Barletta, who spearheaded the crackdown, has argued that illegal immigrants have brought an increase in drugs, crime and gangs to the city. The city's lawyers on Tuesday cited a 10 percent increase in crime between 2004 and 2005 as a reason why the ordinances should be enforced.
Munley, however, wrote that the city "offers only vague generalizations about the crime allegedly caused by illegal immigrants, but has nothing concrete to back up these claims." The city also failed to provide statistics on the number of illegal immigrants living in Hazleton, he wrote.
Furthermore, Munley wrote, the plaintiffs have a "reasonable probability" of getting the laws declared unconstitutional.
Hazleton's crackdown, which was announced in June, has spurred other towns to pass similar laws. Municipal officials view the Hazleton lawsuit and a similar one in Riverside, N.J., as test cases.
Witold J. Walczak, legal director of the ACLU of Pennsylvania, hailed Tuesday's decision as an important victory.
"I think what's important is the judge recognized that this ordinance has the potential to cause real harm by costing people their jobs, their houses and requiring children to leave schools," he said.
The judge's restraining order expires Nov. 14. He indicated that he will schedule a hearing on the ACLU's motion for a temporary injunction.
Barletta said he is convinced the courts will ultimately uphold the law. He noted his lawyers had only a few hours to prepare for Tuesday's hearing and said he is confident they will "prove our right to defend and protect our citizens."
"I'm not discouraged. They may have delayed enforcement for now, but this too shall pass," Barletta said Tuesday. "We have only begun to fight."
1stTimeCaller
11/1/2006, 04:50 PM
The ACLU or the illegal-ACLU or the non-ACLU?
MamaMia
11/1/2006, 05:52 PM
Why? you expect elected officials in Washington to do anything good or useful?Why what? :confused:
mdklatt
11/1/2006, 05:55 PM
have they apologized for Bryan Adams yet? :mad:
You know what's really sad? Bryan Adams didn't always suck, c.f. "Run To You". It was about the time that Michael Bolton became popular that Adams turned into a *****.
mdklatt
11/1/2006, 05:58 PM
The last I checked, we weren't being overran with Canadians.
Q: Which border country has lots of Muslims, relatively lax immigration standards, and ridiculously easy access to the US?
A: Not Mexico.
yermom
11/1/2006, 05:59 PM
i actually kinda like Bryan Adams :O
but he's not from a real country anyway :P
Vaevictis
11/1/2006, 06:07 PM
Q: Which border country has lots of Muslims, relatively lax immigration standards, and ridiculously easy access to the US?
A: Not Mexico.
You're forgetting the best part: Relaxed access for citizens of nations that are members of the British Commonwealth.
*cough*Pakistan*cough*cough*cough*
mdklatt
11/1/2006, 06:13 PM
*cough*Pakistan*cough*cough*cough*
Really? Well, they do like cricket, so I guess that's not a surprise.
Vaevictis
11/1/2006, 06:21 PM
Really? Well, they do like cricket, so I guess that's not a surprise.
Pakistan is a former British colony; it's the part of India that the Brits reserved for the Muslims when they packed up and went home.
But yeah, Pakistan falls in and out of the Commonwealth; they've left in protest, reapplied and been readmitted, been booted for failure to maintain certain standards of government, been readmitted for subsequently complying, etc, etc, etc.
mdklatt
11/1/2006, 06:28 PM
Pakistan is a former British colony; it's the part of India that the Brits reserved for the Muslims when they packed up and went home.
I knew that Pakistani territory was once under British rule, but since Pakistan wasn't a country until the Brits left I didn't know it was part of the Commonwealth.
KABOOKIE
11/1/2006, 06:47 PM
Q: Which border country has lots of Muslims, relatively lax immigration standards, and ridiculously easy access to the US?
A: Not Mexico.
That's it! Blame the muslims!!
I'm actually learnin' stuff on this thread.
1stTimeCaller
11/1/2006, 08:33 PM
Q: Which border country has lots of Muslims, relatively lax immigration standards, and ridiculously easy access to the US?
A: Not Mexico.
Canada. wow, I'm smrt.
Which country's citizens have used millions of taxpayer dollars worth of medical services and not paid anything to Parkland Hospital in Dallas?
That's why citizens of states that border Mexico are more conccerned with illegal border crossers from Mexico than they are with illegal boarder crossers from Canada.
Yes, I know plenty of American citizens owe Parkland Hospital money but it's funded by American taxpayers for American taxpayers, not other country's citizens.
royalfan5
11/1/2006, 09:18 PM
Just a hypothetical question here, how much of the tax payer cost directly attributable to illegal immigrants is offset buy taxpayers paying less for their food and other services that rely heavily on questionable to illegal labor? I'm sure there are studies out there on this. I'll try and find one and link it.
yermom
11/1/2006, 09:23 PM
but if you take away our slaves our economy will fail... it will end our way of life ;)
nanimonai
11/1/2006, 11:46 PM
They can send the whole mothertruckin' country up here as long as they do it legally.
I don't understand what is so hard about that to grasp for both sides of the issue.
mdklatt
11/2/2006, 11:18 AM
Which country's citizens have used millions of taxpayer dollars worth of medical services and not paid anything to Parkland Hospital in Dallas?
How does Parkland get funded?
1stTimeCaller
11/2/2006, 11:24 AM
How does Parkland get funded?
Yes, I know plenty of American citizens owe Parkland Hospital money but it's funded by American taxpayers for American taxpayers, not other country's citizens.
more specifically Dallas County property taxes.
anyhoo, it's a moot point.
there are legal way to live and work in America. Why should we let them openly and brazenly break the law?
Tear Down This Wall
11/2/2006, 11:54 AM
I just call them "The Pretend People." They pretend that school districts and hosptial districts just magically have money. To The Pretend People, illegal immigrants flooding public schools and hospitals is no problem. After all, money just magically appears for public services in boggled minds of the Pretend People.
The Pretend People never can explain, though, why it is that cities with huge illegal immigrant populations have failing and/or bankrupt school and hospital districts. The pretend that everything is okay while those cities implode economically. Their favorite song is "It's Only Make Believe."
A good simile for the pretend people is Kevin Bacon at the end of Animal House when he keep saying "All is well" when there is chaos all around.
mdklatt
11/2/2006, 11:57 AM
more specifically Dallas County property taxes
Right. Everybody who lives in Dallas County pays property taxes, whether or not they're here legally. This is not a moot point. The illegals are not a drain on the system because they're illegal but because they're uninsured, which makes them no different than, what, 30% of Dallas County residents? 40%? 50%?
there are legal way to live and work in America. Why should we let them openly and brazenly break the law?
There are three seperate issues: illegal immigration, national security, and immigration in general.
Illegal Immigration
Nobody should be here illegally, but obviously legal immigration can't satisfy the demand for immigrants who want to come here to work and our need for them to be here. The solution? Streamline the immigration process, come up with a guest worker program, whatever. For the people already here, you can't just kick them out without effecting the economy. Maybe that's a price Americans are willing to pay, but make no mistake that there will be a price.
National Security
The Canadian border is as big a threat to national security as the Mexican border, if not much more so for the reasons already enumerated in this thread. Have you heard the pubz or the dimz make a big deal about securing that border? No, because they're full of ****. They don't care about national security, they care about getting votes. And hatin' on illegal Mexicans is a good way to get votes right now.
Immigration in General
Most of problems people attribute to illegal immigrants have nothing to do with them being illegal but being immigrants. You don't have to speak English to get a green card (do you?). Immigrants from anywhere tend to flock together regardless of their status, and it's always been that way: Chinatown, Little Saigon, New Braunfels, Minnesota. Poor immigrants are going to be a drain on the system whether or not they're legal, and most immigrants are going to be poor, right?
I just call them "The Pretend People." They pretend that school districts and hosptial districts just magically have money. To The Pretend People, illegal immigrants flooding public schools and hospitals is no problem. After all, money just magically appears for public services in boggled minds of the Pretend People.
The Pretend People never can explain, though, why it is that cities with huge illegal immigrant populations have failing and/or bankrupt school and hospital districts. The pretend that everything is okay while those cities implode economically. Their favorite song is "It's Only Make Believe."
A good simile for the pretend people is Kevin Bacon at the end of Animal House when he keep saying "All is well" when there is chaos all around.
So...
...this wall that we're gonna build to help us "pretend" that illegals won't be coming across any more, who's paying for it?
KABOOKIE
11/2/2006, 02:11 PM
So...
...this wall that we're gonna build to help us "pretend" that illegals won't be coming across any more, who's paying for it?
Hoepfully the artist. They don't need anymore funding. :D
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