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Norm In Norman
10/24/2006, 10:20 PM
Which distribution do you guys use? I've been trying to use Ubuntu, but I'm just getting sick of spending all my time ****ing with it trying to get it to work correctly. Getting my onboard sound (NVIDIA SoundStorm) driver to work was a pain in the ***. Getting the ATI driver installed and working was a pain in the ***. Getting MythTV installed was a HUGE pain in the *** and I never got it working correctly. I can't find a decent video editor. I can't get VLC (which I use in windows) to play some of my xvids with AC3 sound. I can't get the Matrix DVD to play in VLC. I could go on and on. I've spent HOURS installing and reinstalling Ubuntu and configuring it. And it's not like I can't handle it, but I've been telling people to try Ubuntu because I heard it was really easy to set up. Well guess what? It's NOT. I wasn't wanting to spend this much time setting things up this time, I just wanted to stop using Windows.

To top it off, from what I can tell, it does some things like Windows does, ie it installs a lot of crap and services that you don't need. That annoys the hell out of me. And there isn't an easy way to upgrade Firefox to 2.0 because 1.5 is integrated into the help system and evidently several other systems. Evidently the newest version of Ubuntu is coming out in a few days and will have Firefox 2.0 installed by default though.

If you want to surf the web, edit documents, and check your email then Ubuntu is fine. If you want to do crazy stuff like video editing, then you are pushing it's envelope. Thank god I don't play high end games.

Basically, I'd like something that has a desktop, will work well with my hardware out of the box but also makes things easy to install (like Synaptic does). Is that too much to ask? Give me a suggestion.

OK, I'm done asking/ranting.

handcrafted
10/24/2006, 10:26 PM
http://www.mac-club.de/Service/F-service/Mac_OS_X1024x768.jpg

YWIA.

the_ouskull
10/24/2006, 10:33 PM
I use Ubuntu and haven't had a problem with it so far... Other than finding an online poker room on which I can play. The ONE (pokerroom.com) that I was able to play on has folded up shop for U.S.-based customers...

the_ouskull

King Crimson
10/24/2006, 10:45 PM
independent of Linux, i used to use VLC player but it annoyed me since it crashed a lot and the volume control dealie is crapola.....and i DL'd a KLM-lite package of codecs with media player classic which (in my experience) is a better VLC player without the headaches and a better volume control. it rocks.

yermom
10/24/2006, 10:53 PM
are any of the poker sites working for US-based customers?

i like Fedora. i haven't had any driver issues with desktop stuff, only with newer wireless cards, but that isn't really the fault of Linux peeps

i've been meaning to try Ubuntu, but haven't gotten to it yet. of course i haven't messed with MythTV, although i'd see what the users of that use, or what is mentioned in the instructions/support the most if i was trying to get that to work

sooner_born_1960
10/24/2006, 11:34 PM
Fedora and Centos.

Vaevictis
10/24/2006, 11:58 PM
Usually I stick to Fedora or Debian, depending on whether I'm doing a desktop/server or an embedded system.

And yes, if you want to take uncommon hardware (or really, any hardware that the manufacturer refuses to publish specs for...) that you've purchased and make it work with any linux distribution, you are pushing the envelope.

The "correct" way to do this is to look at the hardware, find some that supports linux, and pick the one that supports the distribution you most want to tolerate.

When you have multiple uncommon hardware devices, you get to pick the intersection of the distributions, which is even more fun.

Welcome to Linux. Hardware vendors don't give a rats-*** about how good the desktop experience is, so don't expect it to be easy.

The server experience is where it's at.

yermom
10/25/2006, 12:03 AM
that is about my appraisal... for a workstation i like it ok, but for goofing off on a desktop it's not that great

if i could only run Linux servers i would be fairly happy... especially if it was on Sun hardware :D

Norm In Norman
10/25/2006, 07:55 AM
Usually I stick to Fedora or Debian, depending on whether I'm doing a desktop/server or an embedded system.

And yes, if you want to take uncommon hardware (or really, any hardware that the manufacturer refuses to publish specs for...) that you've purchased and make it work with any linux distribution, you are pushing the envelope.

The "correct" way to do this is to look at the hardware, find some that supports linux, and pick the one that supports the distribution you most want to tolerate.

When you have multiple uncommon hardware devices, you get to pick the intersection of the distributions, which is even more fun.

Welcome to Linux. Hardware vendors don't give a rats-*** about how good the desktop experience is, so don't expect it to be easy.

The server experience is where it's at.
Well, I apt-get is really dern cool (especially compared to the hell that RedHat was to get things installed 6 or 7 years ago, which is the last time I installed Linux at home) so I was thinking about trying Debian (it's a debian only thing, right?). As far as I'm concerned, I think the Linux people need to STFU until they come up with something that isn't a pain in the *** to get working correctly. I mean sure, ubuntu worked out of the box with a standard VGA driver and a standard sound driver (with 2 channel sound), but my system is 4 or 5 years old and was a popular system. It shoudln't be that big of a deal to get it going right. Even the new video card I bought is about 3 years old and LOTS of people have them (ATI 9600Pro). It should just work out of the box.

I think Ubuntu's problem is it doesn't give you enough installation options. Basically, you get what's on the live CD copied onto your hard drive. It installs in 20 minutes, but then you are left to toil over configuration for hours if you care about such things. And I do. But again, Synaptic is cool and I like it's "automatic updates". They just need to work on hardware support.

sooner_born_1960
10/25/2006, 08:06 AM
I really like vmware for trying out different installs. Just set up a 10G or so virtual disk, put your cd or dvd (or just mount the image) and start the virtual machine. It really works well.

I_SMELL_FEAR
10/25/2006, 08:35 AM
I use SuSE, mainly because thats what we use at work. I have installed it on all different sorts of Dell Poweredge servers with no issues, of course the Linux came bundled with the server, so the hardware is SuSE compliant. I installed it at home on my system I built with no issues either. It seems to be pretty good. Other software installs seem to go pretty good on SuSE also, for Linux anyway.

Ike
10/25/2006, 09:16 AM
all of my linux uses are at work...my lappy is a windblows laptop due to the fact that I need muthafuggin powerpoint for when I go give talks or to download somebody elses talks...Openoffice just isn't quite there with reading funny characters in powerpoint presentations...

anyway though, at work we use fedora which has never really had any problems...then again, we don't do much in the way of multimedia stuff here at work.

A friend of mine here that is a LinuxGuru-In-A-Can has recommended Gentoo to me...but I've never tried it.

drivers can always be problematic. Especially for hardware that is recent, or for hardware made by companies that think someone is going to steal their mojo if they release an open driver.

yermom
10/25/2006, 09:22 AM
if you want easy, i don't think Gentoo is the way to go :D

i really liked Suse when i tried it a few years ago, but i didn't have anything special hardwarewise

Veritas
10/25/2006, 09:34 AM
I use Ubuntu at home, SuSE to run servers at work.

Simply put, there is no "Plug and Play" easy way to get drivers working in Linux. It takes Googling and some time. :(

Getem
10/25/2006, 05:54 PM
I think Fedora is best at hardware recognition and setup. I tried Debian and Ubuntu a while back and neither would even properly configure X for a run-of-the-mill ATI 9200 video card. If you try it, there's some really good notes at http://stanton-finley.net/fedora_core_5_installation_notes.html

For this latest PC, I am running Gentoo because the hardware is pretty new (core 2 duo, 965 chipset) and all of my install cds would lock up without warning. The Gentoo step-by-step install is pretty involved, but the Gentoo IRC channel has plenty of people who are willing to help. Plus you learn a lot more.

For video editing, I use avidemux2 and transcode (still working on those games, btw. It's a long story). Also, VLC works pretty well, but I would use Xine and Mplayer before it on Linux.

Coming from windows, you might prefer KDE to Gnome, though it is more resource hungry.

GottaHavePride
10/25/2006, 06:03 PM
I dislike Linux because they have such freakin' idiotic names for the different versions. I have never actually used Linux. ;)

Vaevictis
10/25/2006, 06:09 PM
Well, I apt-get is really dern cool (especially compared to the hell that RedHat was to get things installed 6 or 7 years ago, which is the last time I installed Linux at home) so I was thinking about trying Debian (it's a debian only thing, right?).

It comes from Debian. I'm sure there are debian derivatives that make use of it.


As far as I'm concerned, I think the Linux people need to STFU until they come up with something that isn't a pain in the *** to get working correctly.

It isn't a pain in the *** to get it working correctly... as long as you want to use it for servers or embedded systems. Workstation use is passable. Desktop multimedia use, not so much.


It should just work out of the box.

In general, it never has. You think it's bad today, try going back about ten years ago and trying to configure XF86 for a 3dfx Banshee card.

Basically, it boils down to using the right tool for the job. For the job you're trying to do, Linux is probably not the right tool; I'd start with OS X, or maybe Windows if I couldn't swing a Mac.



They just need to work on hardware support.

They do work on hardware support. The problem is:
1. Drivers are often/usually done by volunteers; people who work on what's interesting/important to them. It's possible nobody with the ability finds your hardware interesting enough to take the time to write a driver for.
2. Hardware companies often refuse to publish specs making the volunteers job even harder.

In any case, hardware support has ALWAYS been an issue under the free OS's. This is why I told you about the hardware selection process previously ;)

Norm In Norman
10/26/2006, 09:52 AM
Well, I understand all that, but there seems to be a big push here lately to get people to use Linux as a desktop and it's just not there yet. If you want to set it up for rudimentary tasks like surfing the web or checking email then great. If you want to set it up as a server then awesome. It gets really fuzzy in between though. Way back when I was playing around with Linux last time it was way worse, so I will say it has come a long way. It's still too much for your average user though.

I'm still going to mess around with it because I feel I can probably get it to do a lot of things I want it to, but I doubt I could use it for my main desktop at this time. We'll see. I may go ahead and try gentoo. I'm sure compiling everything from scratch will make setting up ubuntu look quite trivial.

yermom
10/26/2006, 10:09 AM
i've been saying the same thing for a while Norm, and i'd say i'm pretty familiar with using Linux, and quite biased toward it as a server platform

it's only cool as a desktop if you like to constantly tweak stuff and say "look what i can do" ;)

Ike
10/26/2006, 10:33 AM
Well, I understand all that, but there seems to be a big push here lately to get people to use Linux as a desktop and it's just not there yet. If you want to set it up for rudimentary tasks like surfing the web or checking email then great. If you want to set it up as a server then awesome. It gets really fuzzy in between though. Way back when I was playing around with Linux last time it was way worse, so I will say it has come a long way. It's still too much for your average user though.

I'm still going to mess around with it because I feel I can probably get it to do a lot of things I want it to, but I doubt I could use it for my main desktop at this time. We'll see. I may go ahead and try gentoo. I'm sure compiling everything from scratch will make setting up ubuntu look quite trivial.

they probably want you to use linux on your desktop at work so that you won't bother watching so many videos and playing so many games ;)

Norm In Norman
10/26/2006, 09:25 PM
Nah, we're windows here at work. I'm just saying "out there" the Linux guys are pushing for people to use Linux as a desktop. If you go on Slashdot you'll hear nothing but stuff like that. Of course those guys are biased...

I'm downloading the new Ubuntu live DVD right now. Looks like I have my weekend planned out. Maybe if I can get MythTV .20 working I'll be happier.

Stoop Dawg
10/26/2006, 09:44 PM
I bought a new Dell with WinXP about 6 months ago. I pulled it out of the box, turned it on, and it started working.

Then, a couple of weeks later, I bought a wireless NIC (USB). I plugged it in without turning the machine off or installing any software. It started working.

The end.

Getem
10/26/2006, 10:48 PM
I bought a new Dell with WinXP about 6 months ago. I pulled it out of the box, turned it on, and it started working.

Then, a couple of weeks later, I bought a wireless NIC (USB). I plugged it in without turning the machine off or installing any software. It started working.

The end.

That's what a girl would do...

I just salvaged data from my boss's crashed year-old Dell-with-WinXP home computer using a Gentoo Live CD to boot it and burn the recoverable files to CDs, earning beaucoup brownie points in the process.

soonerboomer93
10/26/2006, 11:08 PM
Normally I would just pull the drive, pop it in a different computer, then selctively pull the data I wanted. Then again, I'm into hardware, not software.

OUTromBoNado
10/27/2006, 02:07 AM
I use SuSE. Novell distributed an totally open source OS. The problem with that is that there are no codecs included in the installation for player .mp3 files or other such "non-open source" media.

The fixes are really easy though. About 5 minutes of googling, and another 30-45 minutes of installing and playing around and it works great. If you want to use the free distro of SuSE, send me a PM. I'll send you the website that tells you how to get it all setup for multimedia.

I set up a dual-boot with Windows XP. I haven't actually booted into Linux for about 3 months now. I do too much gaming that requires Windows. I don't think I had a single hardware issues when I installed, and I have a custom built system that I put together myself.

It's kinda cool knowing that I all the software I have on my computer is totally free. That, and Linux gives my something to play around with when I'm bored.

yermom
10/27/2006, 03:29 AM
That's what a girl would do...

I just salvaged data from my boss's crashed year-old Dell-with-WinXP home computer using a Gentoo Live CD to boot it and burn the recoverable files to CDs, earning beaucoup brownie points in the process.

i've used Knoppix to do basically the same thing... only i scp the files over the network :D


i've really gotten away from the dual-boot thing. usually, there is an older machine laying around. i have a Fedora web/file/SSH server running on a 350MHz PII with 384MB of RAM. It doesn't miss a beat, probably has more RAM and proc than it needs for those things... in a pinch it can browse the web or whatever though.

Stoop Dawg
10/27/2006, 02:07 PM
That's what a girl would do...

What? Use an OS that works?

;)

OUTromBoNado
10/28/2006, 12:17 AM
Yeah, I thought about running a separate Linux box whenever I build myself a new computer. Instead, I think I'm just going to build a PVR instead. I'll get more use out of that.

And yes, I know I could build a PVR with Linux.

Norm In Norman
10/29/2006, 09:36 PM
Well, I decided to try Ububtu Edgy. MythTV did not work using the Ubuntu instructions. Figures.

instigator
10/29/2006, 10:59 PM
I have been using Ubuntu at home for a while and it works great. I have my ATI drivers working pretty well and even have my new Dell 2407FPW rocking at 1900x1200. :) Have you used the Ubuntu Forums? I can usually find a solution pretty quickly there. VLC is working well for me too.

I am running Novell SLED 10 at work because we are a Novell shop and I have tons more compatibility issues with it.

Norm In Norman
10/29/2006, 11:04 PM
Yeah, i posted on there last night with my latest problem but nobody is helping me yet. I did end up helping someone else though. Figures. I'm hoping once I get MythTV going I'll be able to do most of what I want to.