Is Rush Limbaugh a total ******rocket?

[mdklatt]

I'll report, you decide:

link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/24/AR2006102400691.html)


Conservative radio talk show host Rush Limbaugh attacked actor Michael J. Fox for inserting his halting voice into the U.S. Senate campaign in Missouri, suggesting Fox was "acting" in a commercial where he's shown shaking while endorsing the importance of stem cell research.

"He is exaggerating the effects of the disease," Limbaugh told listeners, encouraging them to go online to watch Fox's commercial, which first aired Oct. 21 in St. Louis during a World Series game. "He's moving all around and shaking and it's purely an act."

...

"This is really shameless of Michael J. Fox," Limbaugh said. "Either he didn't take his medication or he's acting."





I'm sure it's just unfathomable to Rush that somebody would stop taking pills. :pop:

[Sooner_Bob]

I haven't seen the commercial, but as someone who watched Parkinson's take it's toll on my grandpa I'll take this opportunity to tell Rush to go . . . well, you know.

[Viking Kitten]

You have to admit... the thought of someone hamming up their shaking for effect is pretty funny.

[yermom]

that guy makes my head hurt

IBTwf

[tbl]

I'll report, you decide:
I'm sure it's just unfathomable to Rush that somebody would stop taking pills. :pop:
Say what you will, but that's a pretty funny line right there.:D

[usmc-sooner]

do you guys just go around searching for **** to **** you off?

[PhilTLL]

do you guys just go around searching for **** to **** you off?

Nah, when some ignorant *** accuses a guy with a terrible degenerative neurological disease of faking it, a bunch of other people find it for me because it ****es them off too.

[Jerk]

Here we go again.

Fox admitted in his book "Lucky Man" that he quit taking his prescription drugs before a hearing at a congressional panel to fund research because he wanted to display the affects of the disease. Rush spent nearly 3 hours on this subject today, and even predicted that the libs and media would snip a comment here or there and blow the entire thing out of proportion. The amazing thing is exactly what Fox is campaigning for, which appears to be stem cell research, but the actual law that is trying to be passed in Missouri (via state question) has to do with cloning. Two different things. Stem cell research is already legal. Now, if Fox will admit to not taking his prescription meds before a Senate hearing (which I see nothing wrong with, btw) then what makes anyone here believe he wouldn't do the same dam*ed thing in a political ad? mmk?

Get over it, libs. Pull your panties out of your crotch.

[usmc-sooner]

Nah, when some ignorant *** accuses a guy with a terrible degenerative neurological disease of faking it, a bunch of other people find it for me because it ****es them off too.

so you take Rush way too seriously if you let his comments get to you. I mean he's proven he's a hypocrit, you know he just says crap to get a response and have people talking.

I can't stand to listen to liberals but I don't get worked up over the stuff Bill Maher says.

[yermom]

Here we go again.

Fox admitted in his book "Lucky Man" that he quit taking his prescription drugs before a hearing at a congressional panel to fund research because he wanted to display the affects of the disease. Rush spent nearly 3 hours on this subject today, and even predicted that the libs and media would snip a comment here or there and blow the entire thing out of proportion. The amazing thing is exactly what Fox is campaigning for, which appears to be stem cell research, but the actual law that is trying to be passed in Missouri (via state question) has to do with cloning. Two different things. Stem cell research is already legal. Now, if Fox will admit to not taking his prescription meds before a Senate hearing (which I see nothing wrong with, btw) then what makes anyone here believe he wouldn't do the same dam*ed thing in a political ad? mmk?

Get over it, libs. Pull your panties out of your crotch.

and what part of that is "shameless" or "exaggerating"?

[StoopTroup]

His ratings must be down again.

[Jerk]

and what part of that is "shameless" or "exaggerating"?

Using an illness to promote stem cell research, when the law they want to change actually has to do with cloning, and accusing your political enemies of NOT wanting to find a cure.

Just because Fox is a victim of a horrible disease shouldn't make him above criticism.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

As I understand the situation, the dim in MO is for human cloning, and the republican is not. IOW that was likely a VERY misleading article by the Washington Post, but is that a surprise? The republican has not taken a position against stem cell research, but only against human cloning.
BTW dims, who is more evil in your hateful minds, Rush or George Bush?

[PhilTLL]

so you take Rush way too seriously if you let his comments get to you. I mean he's proven he's a hypocrit, you know he just says crap to get a response and have people talking.

I can't stand to listen to liberals but I don't get worked up over the stuff Bill Maher says.

"****ed off" is probably too strong a phrase, it's more of an :rolleyes: moment.

Here's some Maher, though, just to thread-jack. Disclaimer: I usually can't stand him either, he's smarmy and arrogant and a whole host of other things, but the fact that he makes valid points in 2006 says a whole lot about how effed up the world is today. :)


And finally, New Rule, in two parts: A) You can’t call yourself a think tank if all your ideas are stupid. And B), if you’re someone from one of the think tanks that dreamed up the Iraq War, and who predicted that we’d be greeted as liberators, and that we wouldn’t need a lot of troops, and that Iraqi oil would pay for the war, that the WMD’s would be found, that the looting wasn’t problematic, and the mission was accomplished, that the insurgency was in its last throes, that things would get better after the people voted, after the government was formed, after we got Saddam, after we got his kids, after we got Zarqawi, and that the whole bloody mess wouldn’t turn into a civil war…you have to stop making predictions!

[C&CDean]

Anyone who relies on a TV talking head to feed them their politics is a dildonic loser.

[usmc-sooner]

that's cool Maher can say what he wants it's a free country. I could care less what he thinks, I think he's an idiot so I don't really care about what he says.

[Jerk]

I got a better leftist quote than that!

"We're going to take things away from you for the common good" Hillary Clinton

(over my dead body, biotch)

[Vaevictis]

Irony alert.

[Scott D]

Anyone who relies on a TV talking head to feed them their politics is a dildonic loser.

that seals the deal..william you are a dildonic loser (invoking the dean said it first clause) :D

[Jerk]

Notice when I said Fox admitted to not taking his prescribed medicine before attending a congression hearing so as to let the effects of his disease be shown that it gets no comment from the neo-commies. I need to re-read the FAQ. I need to learn how to type this sh** in real big fkn letters.

[C&CDean]

that seals the deal..william you are a dildonic loser (invoking the dean said it first clause) :D

True enough, but don't leave out PhilTTTCIILILLL. He blows Maher for grins.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

that seals the deal..william you are a dildonic loser :DYou guys "jest can't hep it". You MUST hurl insults and engage in name-calling at every turn. Brilliant!

[PhilTLL]

Notice when I said Fox admitted to not taking his prescribed medicine before attending a congression hearing so as to let the effects of his disease be shown that it gets no comment from the neo-commies. I need to re-read the FAQ. I need to learn how to type this sh** in real big fkn letters.

I don't really remember the events all that well, but I thought he had made it clear to Congress that was his intent.

(edit: from NPR, 04/2002)

FOX: Well, actually, I've been erring on the side of caution--I think 'erring' is actually the right word--in that I've been medicating perhaps too much, in the sense that a lot of times the symptoms that people see in some of these interviews that have been on are actually dyskinesia, which is a reaction to the medication. Because if I were purely symptomatic with Parkinson's symptoms, a lot of times speaking is difficult. There's a kind of a cluttering of speech and it's very difficult to sit still, to sit in one place. You know, the symptoms are different, so I'd rather kind of suffer the symptoms of dyskinesia. . .this kind of weaving and this kind of continuous thing is much preferable, actually, than pure Parkinson's symptoms. So that's what I generally do. . . . . .So I haven't had any, you know, problems with pure Parkinson's symptoms in any of these interviews, because I'll tend to just make sure that I have enough Sinemet in my system and, in some cases, too much. But to me, it's preferable. It's not representative of what I'm like in my everyday life. I get a lot of people with Parkinson's coming up to me saying, 'You take too much medication.' I say, 'Well, you sit across from Larry King and see if you want to tempt it.'

Whoops, I quoted a guy, I guess I blow him. Anyway, the medication-caused dyskinesia he describes looks a lot more like the Missouri commercial.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Give this thread 5 minutes and William will be calling someone a name...but then will fail to see the irony!

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Give this thread 5 minutes and William will be calling someone a name...but then will fail to see the irony!Says who, you da*m grey.

[Scott D]

You guys "jest can't hep it". You MUST hurl insults and engage in name-calling at every turn. Brilliant!

I tried engaging you with intelligent discourse. I got bored waiting for Rush to cover the topic two weeks later.

[StoopTroup]

I love it when folks try to make excuses for two famous people who both have agendas.

I think Michael could still take Rush in a mudwrastlin match.

[PhilTLL]

I tried engaging you with intelligent discourse. I got bored waiting for Rush to cover the topic two weeks later.

You could be waiting a long, long time for that episode of the big show.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

You could be waiting a long, long time for that episode of the big show.I'm just too afraid you guys will convince me to be a pro-abortion and euthanasia loving socialist. Your arguments are so persuasive, we're all better off to just let you present them, than to waste time trying combat them.

[Sooner_Bob]

Cloning, stem cell research . . . who really cares. we've got science and have done things unheard of 25-50 years ago. why stop certain processes or studies?

If something good could come from cloning and save me or a family member I could really care less. It's not like things will go all 6th Day or something.

[Octavian]

Cloning, stem cell research . . . who really cares. we've got science and have done things unheard of 25-50 years ago. why stop certain processes or studies?

If something good could come from cloning and save me or a family member I could really care less. It's not like things will go all 6th Day or something.

that's the kinda thinking that got Galileo in trouble.

[PhilTLL]

I'm just too afraid you guys will convince me to be a pro-abortion and euthanasia loving socialist. Your arguments are so persuasive, we're all better off to just let you present them, than to waste time trying combat them.

I don't think it's a terribly good idea to combat any side of any (even mildly) coherent argument, but for the sake of accuracy, I'm a socially-liberal tiny-govt-favoring libertarian, not a socialist.

Edit: I think we mean "combat" in different senses; I mean "shout down or disrupt" and you mean "refute," which as you might have noticed is one of my favorite things, and everyone's right. So, my bad.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

I'm just too afraid you guys will convince me to be a pro-abortion and euthanasia loving socialist. Your arguments are so persuasive, we're all better off to just let you present them, than to waste time trying combat them.

I agree with 90% of what Rush Limbaugh says and I probably agree with 95% of what Sean Hannity says. My problem with Rush Limbaugh is totally on his presentation of opinions. He attempts to make everyone else to be idiots while he is this supremely benevolent man who is being attacked so unmercifully. I am going to tell you right now...there is lots of really moral and really intelligent people that are Pro-Abortion and if you want to know, If I am being ravaged and can't go to the bathroom or talk and drool all of the time, by God Euthanasia will have my support. I also hate the holier than thou attitude of Limbaugh and Coulter. Like let's say the President had an ad with a Soldier with his leg blown off and him saying he would give up his other leg to help protect us and that he supports President Bush....Coulter and Limbaugh would Praise the courage of the young soldier to stand up to the MSN and be heard. Now the same soldier does an ad that says I lost my leg for nothing...vote Hilary. Oh!!!!! What an Evil and Shameless ploy!!!

[Scott D]

I'm just too afraid you guys will convince me to be a pro-abortion and euthanasia loving socialist. Your arguments are so persuasive, we're all better off to just let you present them, than to waste time trying combat them.

Ok lemme say it in Rushese for you... "blah blah blah...and um uh..uh uh <insert extended stammer> blah blah blah <stammer> blah <stammer> <stammer> blah blah."

Must be so nice to have gotten rich in a speaking job while being a terrible speaker.

[olevetonahill]

Anyone who relies on a TV talking head to feed them their politics is a dildonic loser.
I have to agree , by the way what is dildonic ? ;)
seems like folk are proclaiming their political affiliation . so I will to . i took a political quiz once . thot i was conservative repub :D
Nope , im libertarian border line anarchist
:D :D :D :D :D

[critical_phil]

to answer the original question and get this thread back on topic:

yes.

[Rhino]

Says who, you da*m grey. I'm still trying to figure out what letter is being starred out and what curse word it'll end up being.

[BeetDigger]

Cloning, stem cell research . . . who really cares. we've got science and have done things unheard of 25-50 years ago. why stop certain processes or studies?

If something good could come from cloning and save me or a family member I could really care less. It's not like things will go all 6th Day or something.

The problem is just looking at the positive things that can come from it while ignoring the problems. I think that if we were working with stem cells from adults and not involving embryos, we wouldn't be having all of the debates but rather waiting for the cures (which are NOT guaranteed by. the. way.).

As far as cloning, well I'm not up on the benefits of cloning to really be supportive of it. On the negative side, there just seems like a whole mess of potential problems with it. Hey, if we would have left Hitler alone, this cloning thing may be a good 100 years beyond where it is today. And we could be living with a bunch of Hitler clones.

[handcrafted]

What's shameless is the way that the Dems let MJF shlep himself out like that. Exploitation, pure and simple.

[yermom]

Notice when I said Fox admitted to not taking his prescribed medicine before attending a congression hearing so as to let the effects of his disease be shown that it gets no comment from the neo-commies. I need to re-read the FAQ. I need to learn how to type this sh** in real big fkn letters.

if he is showing congress what the disease is like, you want him to have symptoms or not?

was he dishonest about what he was doing?

[Rhino]

What's shameless is the way that the Dems let MJF shlep himself out like that. Exploitation, pure and simple. You're right. I can't believe they made him film that commercial against his will.

[olevetonahill]

You're right. I can't believe they made him film that commercial against his will.
They held an embyonic stem cell against his head ? :eek:

[KABOOKIE]

that's the kinda thinking that got Galileo in trouble.


Yeah um....The Earth is not the center of the universe vs. It's ok to create a mini-me if it's from MY DNA and kill it when I get a cold.

[Octavian]

Yeah um....The Earth is not the center of the universe vs. It's ok to create a mini-me if it's from MY DNA and kill it when I get a cold.

why do you hate science?

[Frozen Sooner]

C'mon, now.

Nobody's suggesting killing your clone when you have a cold.

Well, unless it'll make you chuckle. Hey, they're clones!

[Octavian]

C'mon, now.

Nobody's suggesting killing your clone when you have a cold.

Well, unless it'll make you chuckle. Hey, they're clones!

heh...yep.

each time you clone a clone, it's a little less sharp than the original

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/2272/multiplicitythreesg3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

they'd be expendable ;)

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I'm still trying to figure out what letter is being starred out and what curse word it'll end up being.HA HA, a typo. Sorry it cost you so much time.

[yermom]

heh...yep.

each time you clone a clone, it's a little less sharp than the original

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/2272/multiplicitythreesg3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

they'd be expendable ;)

which ones of you know the way home?

[GottaHavePride]

Yes.

Oh, wait, this wasn't a yes or no question?

[CShine]

I really LUV the message here. If you have Parkinson's we're NOT supposed to see how bad it can be. You should pay your hard-earned money for drugs and take them and keep your mouth shut. First and foremost, you are NOT permitted to show us how bad Parkinson's can really be because that would be politically inconvenient. You should accept your lot in life because we are NOT going to pursue this line of research which might lead to better treatments.

You should shut up and go away, and MOST OF ALL, you should NOT show us how hard life can be for those who can't afford drugs. Nobody cares. Your disease is a political problem for us and we'd rather ignore you than face the truth. That's the message.

I think I'm gonna throw up.

[Octavian]

I think I'm gonna throw up.

see...perfect example.

if you had a clone, you could make it throw up instead.

[yermom]

wasn't there a movie about this?

[Penguin]

I've never seen a ******rocket before, but I'm pretty sure that Rush would come pretty damn close.


He needs to chill and start popping some pills.

[william_brasky]

don't be messin' with Teen Wolf

[Jerk]

I really LUV the message here. If you have Parkinson's we're NOT supposed to see how bad it can be. You should pay your hard-earned money for drugs and take them and keep your mouth shut. First and foremost, you are NOT permitted to show us how bad Parkinson's can really be because that would be politically inconvenient. You should accept your lot in life because we are NOT going to pursue this line of research which might lead to better treatments.

You should shut up and go away, and MOST OF ALL, you should NOT show us how hard life can be for those who can't afford drugs. Nobody cares. Your disease is a political problem for us and we'd rather ignore you than face the truth. That's the message.

I think I'm gonna throw up.

Nice propaganda, comrad.

Lets blame the capitalists enemy for 'not wanting to find a cure' when the issue that M.J. FOX is campaigning for is about cloning, not stem cell reasearch.

It's the same old line from the socialists - "Republicans don't want to cure diseases...they want people to die!"

Why don't you guys fess up to your communist agenda and run on the issues?

[william_brasky]

hey, you remember Francis from Pee-Wee's Playhouse? He also starred in Teen Wolf as Chubby.

He was born in OKC according to IMDB. How friggin' cool is that?

Limbaugh and Francis do look similar as well.

http://orangeride.com/archives/2004/vermont/pee-wee-600-7.jpg

http://content.clearchannel.com/Photos/male_celebrities/rush_limbaugh/rush_limbaugh_GI.jpg

Francis was a ******rocket. Rush is as well.

[StoopTroup]

Which one is the clone though?

[BoomerJack]

"Is Rush Limbaugh a total ******rocket?"

Is this just now dawning on you?

[sooner_born_1960]

I'm disappointed. He used to be such a nice little Republican.

[OklahomaTuba]

Not to de-rail the Rush luv orgy, but didn't Michael J Fox's commerical run for a candidate that actually voted AGAINST what Michael J Fox is lobbying for?

[KABOOKIE]

Oh boy. As it turns out the democratic senator in MJF’s home state has voted no on the same issue while the Republican candidate has voted for. Yet, there is no commercial showing MJF pimping the Rep. candidate as a champion to cure Parkinson’s. Who's the ******rocket now? :D

Who the **** would want 20 clones of MJF? Call me crazy but, I’m voting against anyone supporting that ****

[Hatfield]

#1 mjf doesn't support cloning.
#2 showing the effects of a horrible disease does not equate to "exploiting" said disease

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I'm for Rush.

MJF is using an issue that isn't even on the Missouri constitution amendment ballot. He is just shilling for the dims. MJF has stated that he has stopped medication at times to exagerate his illness. His testimony before Congress was the most striking example.

Rush is just asking a question the dims think no one will ask. MJF doesn't deserve a free pass just because he has an illness. Maybe I can take my cancer and shill for someone else.

[OklahomaTuba]

#2 showing the effects of a horrible disease does not equate to "exploiting" said disease

Typical liberal hypocrisy.

Funny how its OK to show the bad stuff when a dim is running a commercial.

But when a pub is doing it, well, that's just WRONG!

images of the aftermath of 9/11 come to mind.

[OklahomaTuba]

Maybe I can take my cancer and shill for someone else.

Dude, you have cancer?????

[colleyvillesooner]

I'm gonna need to update this:

http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/5049/lastubanf1.jpg

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Both sides need to shut the **** up

YWIA!!! ;)

[Hatfield]

Typical liberal hypocrisy.

Funny how its OK to show the bad stuff when a dim is running a commercial.

But when a pub is doing it, well, that's just WRONG!

images of the aftermath of 9/11 come to mind.


you are really equating showing the effects of a disease to 9/11? bravo.

and i would have no problem with the mjf commercial regardless which side he was "shilling" for as I don't have a problem with stem cell research (and no i don't support cloning)

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Dude, you have cancer?????

deleted

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Dude, you have cancer?????

Yep.

A mild form of a skin cancer called mycosis fungoides or Cutaneous T-cell Lymphoma (Link, if your interested (http://www.aocd.org/skin/dermatologic_diseases/ctcl.html)). For me, this is will be a chronic issue, something I'll manage with topical medication and watchfulness. As my Doc told me, I'll live a full life and die from something else.

My main prescription is Targretin which is about $1200 per 6 oz. tube. Thank goodness for insurance.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

you are really equating showing the effects of a disease to 9/11? bravo.

and i would have no problem with the mjf commercial regardless which side he was "shilling" for as I don't have a problem with stem cell research (and no i don't support cloning)

Gandalf, I agree with you.

Hatfield, got no problem with stem cell research or in some instances, cloning, depending on what is cloned. I do have a problem with people misrepresenting the issues.

[Hatfield]

and when i say cloning i mean people.

we saw how well that worked out in star wars

[KABOOKIE]

and when i say cloning i mean people.

we saw how well that worked out in star wars


Why are you [head shaking and stuttering] against finding a cure [uncontrollably moving hands] for Parkinson’s?

Sincerely,
Michael J. Fox

[Tear Down This Wall]

The problem is the politization of medicine and science. It's why we'll never find a cure for cancer. We waste time with stuff for political reasons.

For example, we know that jamming the penis in the arse will, over time, cause fags to get AIDS and die. Instead of condemning the action of jamming the penis into an area of the body where waste comes out, we spend billions of dollars to "research" AIDS. Here's the cure for AIDS for free: quit jamming your penis into each other's anuses.

Next, plaintiffs attorneys are suing the crap out of the VIOXX manufacturers. But, they're not suing the crap out of the maker of the RU-486 "abortion pill" that has led to several deaths. Why haven't they sued? Well, geez, killing the unborn is fine in America - even if the mother dies from the cause of the abortion. It's their right to their babies and themselves.

Finally, nothing has come from stem cell research. It's a boondoggle. All we know for sure is that it has caused cancer tumors in rats. It hasn't shown that it can do anything for Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, or any other disease for that matter.

Leftists dragging out Christopher Reeves and Michael J. Fox every two or four years during an election cycle doesn't change anything. There still is no evidence stem cells will do anything but cause cancer tumors in rats. Hello, McFly, we already have cancer as a problem. We don't need more of it.

Stupid.

[Hatfield]

Why are you [head shaking and stuttering] against finding a cure [uncontrollably moving hands] for Parkinson’s?

Sincerely,
Michael J. Fox

classy.

[NormanPride]

So MJF either didn't understand the bill (unlikely) or misrepresented his disease to get votes for a bill. Then he appeared in an ad for a Democratic candidate with what may be the side effects of his medication. Rush then called MJF out for using a debilitating illness to further an unrelated cause.

IMO, what MJF did isn't cool, but isn't horrible either. What Rush did isn't cool, and is potentially REALLY OFFENSIVE, depending on who you are. But that's what he's paid to do.

Really, why do we care? I just clicked on this thread to see who showed up and said what. Looks like the usuals are saying what they always do.

EDIT: THA - sorry to hear about your condition, but I'm glad to hear it's not life-threatening. I guess it's time to vote for people that support better health benefits, huh? ;)

[KABOOKIE]

classy.


I agree. MJF's commercial is about as low as it gets.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

EDIT: THA - sorry to hear about your condition, but I'm glad to hear it's not life-threatening. I guess it's time to vote for people that support better health benefits, huh? ;)

Thanks...

I shudder to think if I didn't have the insurance I did and was able to see the specialists I do. If this was the U.K. or Canada, I wonder if I would have received the same fine care I am now getting.

As a pseudo-academic, I am happy to be participating in a research project to better understand CTCL. Unfortunately, the medical photos were not really fun to take, think pron, but no pay...;). Hopefully, this will help identify a cause to this disease. My MD at MD Anderson thinks it may come from chronic skin infections or athlete's foot. I have had bad acne on my back for years which may be caused by a staph infection, causing the t-cells to go hyperactive resulting in CTCL, so take care of that acne...

[NormanPride]

Yowza... I'll keep it in mind!

[Scott D]

Thanks...

I shudder to think if I didn't have the insurance I did and was able to see the specialists I do. If this was the U.K. or Canada, I wonder if I would have received the same fine care I am now getting.

As a pseudo-academic, I am happy to be participating in a research project to better understand CTCL. Unfortunately, the medical photos were not really fun to take, think pron, but no pay...;). Hopefully, this will help identify a cause to this disease. My MD at MD Anderson thinks it may come from chronic skin infections or athlete's foot. I have had bad acne on my back for years which may be caused by a staph infection, causing the t-cells to go hyperactive resulting in CTCL, so take care of that acne...

it was because you were molested by a Mexican in your childhood and you've repressed it all this time ;)

[Ike]

Finally, nothing has come from stem cell research. It's a boondoggle. All we know for sure is that it has caused cancer tumors in rats. It hasn't shown that it can do anything for Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, or any other disease for that matter.

Leftists dragging out Christopher Reeves and Michael J. Fox every two or four years during an election cycle doesn't change anything. There still is no evidence stem cells will do anything but cause cancer tumors in rats. Hello, McFly, we already have cancer as a problem. We don't need more of it.

Stupid.


wow. just wow. what a complete and utter misrepresentation of stem cell research.

firstly, it hasn't produced much because its a very young field of research. breakthroughs don't just happen overnight you know. secondly, its been hampered by the witholding of federal research dollars on stem cells that come from anywhere other than a dwindling set of pre-existing 'lines'. which means that there aren't enough cells for all of the studies that people want to perform. third, the "cancer tumors in rats" bit is a bit overblown. This was a first pass experiment. Stem cells completely cured a parkinsons like disease in those rats but had the unfortunate side effect that a growing mass of cells that did not become neurons kept dividing in the brain...take note...its a growing mass of cells (a tumor) but not a cancerous tumor...also these were human embryonic stem cells implanted in mice...I wonder what would happen if they used mouse embryonic stem cells? Also, this was a first attempt. It was learned that a) we can make neurons that generate dopamine from stem cells. b)These neurons, when deposited in the brain, cure parkinsons. c) stem cells that 'don't take' to becomming these neurons continue to divide where implanted.

These are important things to know in pushing for cures with stem cells. If you think that they have given us nothing, then you really have no clue how science works.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

it was because you were molested by a Mexican in your childhood and you've repressed it all this time ;)

I'm sure somehow, there is a Mexican in the picture...and they are probably running from the law...;)

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

One must ask why stem cell research is such a passionate issue with the left. Hint-think abortion, their sacrament, with which nothing should interfere, deter or alter.(Why are they so opposed to stopping partial-birth abortion, for example?)

[Scott D]

One must ask why stem cell research is such a passionate issue with the left. Hint-think abortion, their sacrament, with which nothing should interfere, deter or alter.(Why are they so opposed to stopping partial-birth abortion, for example?)

no, you think.

[Hatfield]

One must ask why stem cell research is such a passionate issue with the left. Hint-think abortion, their sacrament, with which nothing should interfere, deter or alter.(Why are they so opposed to stopping partial-birth abortion, for example?)

wow. ignorance should be a crown with which you wear proudly.

[SoonerInKCMO]

The amazing thing is exactly what Fox is campaigning for, which appears to be stem cell research, but the actual law that is trying to be passed in Missouri (via state question) has to do with cloning.

From this statement of yours, can I safely assume that you haven't actually read the proposed amendment?

Here's the text of the actual proposed amendment -

http://www.sos.mo.gov/elections/2006petitions/ppStemCell.asp

Here are a couple of interesting lines from the amendment -



(1) No person may clone or attempt to clone a human being.
(2) No human blastocyst may be produced by fertilization solely for the purpose of stem cell research.

[sitzpinkler]

The problem is the politization of medicine and science. It's why we'll never find a cure for cancer. We waste time with stuff for political reasons.

For example, we know that jamming the penis in the arse will, over time, cause fags to get AIDS and die. Instead of condemning the action of jamming the penis into an area of the body where waste comes out, we spend billions of dollars to "research" AIDS. Here's the cure for AIDS for free: quit jamming your penis into each other's anuses.


Are you serious? Please, tell me you're not serious, and ultimately, not that ignorant.

[Penguin]

******rocket. I seriously need to start working that term into my everyday vocabulary.

[WILBURJIM]

******rocket. I seriously need to start working that term into my everyday vocabulary.
It's been a good day, added two words to my vocabulary: ******rocket and Dildonic.:D

[KABOOKIE]

Here are a couple of interesting lines from the amendment


(1) No person may clone or attempt to clone a human being.
(2) No human blastocyst may be produced by fertilization solely for the purpose of stem cell research.





And it’s from those two lines that I’m sure MJF gets the idea to say the opponent is trying to criminalize scientific research.

[TexasSooner01]

Yes.....he is!

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Well then, Al Franken is a total ******rocket as well...

So there!

[TexasSooner01]

:P

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

One must ask why stem cell research is such a passionate issue with the left. Hint-think abortion, their sacrament, with which nothing should interfere, deter or alter.(Why are they so opposed to stopping partial-birth abortion, for example?)

Please don't plagarize Ann Coulter

[opksooner]

sitzpinkler:

Sie sitzen, wenn Sie pinkeln?

[yermom]

Are you serious? Please, tell me you're not serious, and ultimately, not that ignorant.

you don't like "The Island Solution"?

[TopDawg]

Well then, Al Franken is a total ******rocket as well...

So there!

The difference is that when Al Franken tries to be funny, we get SNL in it's prime. When Rush Limbaugh tries to be funny, it results in a william favor thread. While both certainly have their own comedic value, I'll take SNL in it's prime over the alternative any day.

[GrapevineSooner]

Reason # 7,423 why I...well, I can't say I'm glad over this.

Let's just say it's one of many reasons why I've left the GOP as we know it, today. Instead of handling this issue with a delicate touch, Rush comes off sounding like an insensitive jerk on a subject he really doesn't know much about.

Me thinks Mort Kondracke could teach Rush a thing or two about this horrible, debillitating condition. Since his wife suffered and died from this very same condition.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Please don't plagarize Ann Coulteryou think she's the only person who thinks that? Anyway, thought you didn't like/respect her.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Oh I honestly hope that there isn't many people out there who think the liberals are organized enough to promote any agenda enough to have any basic set tenants and I can honestly say I haven't heard anyone other than Ann refer to the libs as a Church of Godlessness. And I dont like or respect her

[mdklatt]

One must ask why stem cell research is such a passionate issue with the left. Hint-think abortion, their sacrament, with which nothing should interfere, deter or alter.(Why are they so opposed to stopping partial-birth abortion, for example?)


I want to know why IVF isn't an issue with the right.

using embryos for medical research = bad
embryos discarded as part of a fertility treatment = ok

:confused:

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Our psych analysts here at Langley tell us that prominent transsexual Ann Coulter is slowly losing his/her mind.
The so-called “Ann Coulter,” who some 35 years ago exited his/her mother’s womb (or so some folks say – others maintain she was found in a barn) as “Arthur Coltrane” of Pickens County, Georgia, recently appeared on television to publicize his/her latest vicious book, which some soon-to-be-bankrupt publisher thought might sell a copy or two. I watched the tape with one of our psych experts.
“Notice the prominent Adam’s apple bobbing up and down,” our analyst said to me. “Observe the bony structure of the face, and how tightly the skin is stretched over it.” He continued, “Look at the constant blinking of the eyes, and the twitching of the mouth, the constant chewing motions of the lips.” He concluded, “This person craves his mother’s tit to suck on.”
“Miss” Coulter maintained in his/her interviews with TV personalities Matt Lauer and Tucker Carlson that the widows of 9-11 victims and Cindy Sheehan, whose son Casey was killed in Iraq, were actually happy about the losses of their male relatives, because of all the money they have received. He/she said that the widows and mothers should gratefully take their payoffs and shut up complaining about “Miss” Coulter’s hero, George W. Bush, another sexually ambiguous freak with, shall we say, exotic proclivities.
(As the analyst said, this surgical monstrosity, Coulter, is losing her mind. She keeps expecting, against all the evidence, that George W. Bush will some day actually take a liking to her. My own conclusion after watching the tape: She’s a pathetic, artificial woman, and as such she has a misplaced sexual appetite for George W. Bush. You might say she’s a trisexual – she’ll try sex with anyone or anything alive, or even pretending to be alive. She is probably mad at poor dead Casey Sheehan for defending her from the Arabs - perhaps the voracious Coulter is secretly peeved that those dark-skinned and hairy Muslim men won’t be shtupping her anytime soon.)
The analyst at our briefing continued: “Notice, if you will, that Miss Coulter’s rants are all directed at prominent women: the 9/11 widows only – she never mentions the parents or children or husbands, you see - and Cindy Sheehan. And also Hillary Clinton. He/she especially hates Hillary Clinton, who is a woman, with a family, who has achieved fame.”
He said, “It’s glaringly obvious what’s going on – it’s womb envy! Since Ann Coulter doesn’t have a womb, can never bear children, and his/her vagina is just a mere artifact, he/she has a pathological hatred of real women - that is, those who were born naturally as women, and not created on some stainless-steel operating table in Denmark.”
(The public should know that some 20 years ago Arthur Coltrane’s doting mother Darlene, heiress to a hog farming fortune, sent her unhappy teenage homosexual son to Copenhagen for a sex-change operation by the world-renowned surgeon Dr. Magnus Johansson. The ever-obliging doctor acceded to Darlene Coltrane’s request, and following the operation gave her the severed penis in a jar of formaldehyde. She keeps it in her bedroom. Talk about a weird family.)
The saddest part of all this is that Arthur Coltrane/Anne Coulter’s adoration of George W. Bush is far from mutual. George Bush in conversation with his colleagues contemptuously calls Ann Coulter “Grasshopper,” after a rather unfortunate photograph which appeared on the cover of TIME magazine. Condoleeza Rice hates the woman and calls her “Lil’ Miss Yeller,” because of the fact that “Miss” Coulter is ashamed of being one-sixteenth Negro, which one would never suspect – those Danish cosmetics are marvelous.
Some family history: “Miss” Coulter’s Congolese great-great-grandmother Charity was freed from slavery in Pickens County, Georgia in 1857, by the Hon. Ambrose Coltrane, then head of the all-white branch of the Coltrane family. Charity was freed and sent away at the insistence of the then Mrs. Coltrane, and left the plantation bearing two gifts: twelve fine hogs and a bouncing half-white bastard baby boy - “Miss” Ann Coulter’s great-grandfather, Festus Coltrane.
“A classic case of gender dysmorphism and womb envy,” our analyst concluded. “You know, of course, how those sex-change operations are done in Denmark.…they remove the penis –the one which his mother keeps next to her bed - and then they fold the skin inside to create a fake vagina, but there’s not enough material there to make a womb. Besides, why bother – who would want to be the child of a monster like that?” He concluded, “As the Bible might put it, there’s no womb at the inn.”

[StoopTroup]

I think anytime the North Koreans launch a rocket, the media should use the term ******rocket.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I want to know why IVF isn't an issue with the right.

using embryos for medical research = bad
embryos discarded as part of a fertility treatment = ok

:confused:Isn't the former taking an embryo apart, hence destroying the embryo as an entity, while the latter is hardly discarded, but instead given a chance to live?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Hey Gandalf, did you write that post #103 yourself? If not, to what scholarly source do you attribute it?

[Frozen Sooner]

Isn't the former taking an embryo apart, hence destroying the embryo as an entity, while the latter is hardly discarded, but instead given a chance to live?

How many embryos do you think are created during a typical in vitro fertilization? Only one of them gets implanted.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

How many embryos do you think are created during a typical in vitro fertilization? Only one of them gets implanted.Don't know. Could look it up.

[Ike]

Don't know. Could look it up.

the numbers of fertilized embryos that are tossed in the dumpster as a result of IVF, that I have heard, reach into the tens of millions, industry wide, per year. There's no hard number out there, because any two procedures inherently fertilize a different number of embryos, so its just a guess. I have no idea how accurate it is, but I'll take them at roughly their word.




For reference, if the above number is approximately correct, that is roughly 10 times the number of legal abortions performed in the US every year.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

the numbers of fertilized embryos that are tossed in the dumpster as a result of IVF, that I have heard, reach into the tens of millions, industry wide, per year. There's no hard number out there, because any two procedures inherently fertilize a different number of embryos, so its just a guess. I have no idea how accurate it is, but I'll take them at roughly their word.




For reference, if the above number is approximately correct, that is roughly 10 times the number of legal abortions performed in the US every year.So, I suppose that is an(your?) argument for abortion?

[Hatfield]

So, I suppose that is an(your?) argument for abortion?


how do you come up with this stuff?

[TheHumanAlphabet]

The difference is that when Al Franken tries to be funny, we get SNL in it's prime. When Rush Limbaugh tries to be funny, it results in a william favor thread. While both certainly have their own comedic value, I'll take SNL in it's prime over the alternative any day.

Al Franken today and a la Air America is NO comedian. As to SNL, I would agree, but he left that life long ago. The best you could say about his books today is that he is a satirist.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I think anytime the North Koreans launch a rocket, the media should use the term ******rocket.

I'd second that.

Kim Jong "Mentally" Il is a ******rocket and so is that tapidong missile...

[TheHumanAlphabet]

How many embryos do you think are created during a typical in vitro fertilization? Only one of them gets implanted.

In order to increase the chance of a pregnancy, multiple embryos are usually implanted. Often times there may be a theraputic abortion to downsize the potential births. Or so I'm told...

[jk the sooner fan]

i havent read this thread, i'm sure rush has been flamed beyond recognition

but what i find funny is how cynical we all can be about various things...and how its just totally out of the realm of possibility that what he said might actually be true...

i'm not saying he was right.....i have no idea....i'm going to start keeping track of the cynicism on this board.......all the grand conspiracy theories that are pointed out......and when i do, i'll refer to it as the alex keaton factor

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

i havent read this thread, i'm sure rush has been flamed beyond recognition

but what i find funny is how cynical we all can be about various things...and how its just totally out of the realm of possibility that what he said might actually be true...

i'm not saying he was right.....i have no idea....i'm going to start keeping track of the cynicism on this board.......all the grand conspiracy theories that are pointed out......and when i do, i'll refer to it as the alex keaton factorActor Michael J Fox misrepresents the position of a republican politician in MO, and the MSM intentionally misrepresents Limbaugh when he points out that fact. Same old songs.
BTW libs, be sure to vote on Nov. 9, so you can reclaim your birthright as fearful leaders of the USA.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

:D

[Ike]

So, I suppose that is an(your?) argument for abortion?

no. Thats just to give some context. Its quite a stretch to turn that into an argument for abortion. The right tends to beat the drum very loudly with respects to abortion and stem cell research, but ignores the larger number of destroyed embryos from IVF. why is that? If they are going to be consistent, wouldn't they also push to outlaw IVF?

[Hatfield]

no.

because they are too busy hating other americans.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

no. Thats just to give some context. Its quite a stretch to turn that into an argument for abortion. The right tends to beat the drum very loudly with respects to abortion and stem cell research, but ignores the larger number of destroyed embryos from IVF. why is that? If they are going to be consistent, wouldn't they also push to outlaw IVF? It would seem to be so. Maybe it's the intent to create life, rather than to kill that keeps the right silent on that issue?

[Scott D]

Actor Michael J Fox misrepresents the position of a republican politician in MO, and the MSM intentionally misrepresents Limbaugh when he points out that fact. Same old songs.
BTW libs, be sure to vote on Nov. 9, so you can reclaim your birthright as fearful leaders of the USA.

and even with a new name you misrepresent reality...now go away silly knnnnnniggit before I am forced to taunt you for a second time.

[Ike]

It would seem to be so. Maybe it's the intent to create life, rather than to kill that keeps the right silent on that issue?


But if thats the argument then the objections to stem cell research seem hollow, as the intent is to save lives.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

But if thats the argument then the objections to stem cell research seem hollow, as the intent is to save lives.It could be they have not demonstrated the need for using embryos for the stem cell research.

[Frozen Sooner]

In order to increase the chance of a pregnancy, multiple embryos are usually implanted. Often times there may be a theraputic abortion to downsize the potential births. Or so I'm told...

I thought abortion stopped a beating heart?

[Ike]

It could be they have not demonstrated the need for using embryos for the stem cell research.


Only to those who haven't been paying attention.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

silly knnnnnniggit Huh?

[Ike]

Huh?
heh

[Hatfield]

Huh?

he may fart in your general direction

[Scott D]

Huh?

I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper. I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.

[crawfish]

Is this thead still about Rush Limbaugh? I don't wanna mess up the continuity if not.

[Ike]

he may unclog his nose at you.

[mdklatt]

It could be they have not demonstrated the need for using embryos for the stem cell research.

Nobody needs to get pregnant, either.

[Jerk]

All of you guys who believe in embryonic stem cell research...why not pony up the money from your personal bank account to fund the studies. If any cures are to be found, you will be rich beyond your wildest imaginations. I mean, really, there should be no need for the tax payers to fund this stuff. A cure for a disease would mean huge profits$$$

STFU and put your money where your mouth is.

[Ike]

All of you guys who believe in embryonic stem cell research...why not pony up the money from your personal bank account to fund the studies. If any cures are to be found, you will be rich beyond your wildest imaginations. I mean, really, there should be no need for the tax payers to fund this stuff. A cure for a disease would mean huge profits$$$

STFU and put your money where your mouth is.


riiiiight...cause there are only a handful of studies that need to be done.



here we go again with the not having a clue as to how scientific progress is made.

[Vaevictis]

I mean, really, there should be no need for the tax payers to fund this stuff.

That's a silly attitude for someone who makes use of things -- every day -- that would not exist without taxpayer funded research. If there's no need, would you care to give up those things? The internet is one of those things, but we're also talking about more fundamental things like the transistor.

The problem is, a lot of research that needs to be done is fundamental research, which costs a ton of money and sometimes comes decades before any applied research is done. The private sector won't take on such high risk jobs with payback so far out.

A lot of medical research is done in partnerships between the federal government and medical research companies also.

[Sooner_Bob]

The problem is just looking at the positive things that can come from it while ignoring the problems. I think that if we were working with stem cells from adults and not involving embryos, we wouldn't be having all of the debates but rather waiting for the cures (which are NOT guaranteed by. the. way.).

As far as cloning, well I'm not up on the benefits of cloning to really be supportive of it. On the negative side, there just seems like a whole mess of potential problems with it. Hey, if we would have left Hitler alone, this cloning thing may be a good 100 years beyond where it is today. And we could be living with a bunch of Hitler clones.


just say no to hitler clones . . .;)

[Ike]

That's a silly attitude for someone who makes use of things -- every day -- that would not exist without taxpayer funded research. If there's no need, would you care to give up those things? The internet is one of those things, but we're also talking about more fundamental things like the transistor.

The problem is, a lot of research that needs to be done is fundamental research, which costs a ton of money and sometimes comes decades before any applied research is done. The private sector won't take on such high risk jobs with payback so far out.

A lot of medical research is done in partnerships between the federal government and medical research companies also.


you lost most people here when differentiating between fundamental and applied research. Unfortunately, most people don't understand the difference and the significance of that difference.

[Jerk]

That's a silly attitude for someone who makes use of things -- every day -- that would not exist without taxpayer funded research. If there's no need, would you care to give up those things? The internet is one of those things, but we're also talking about more fundamental things like the transistor.

The problem is, a lot of research that needs to be done is fundamental research, which costs a ton of money and sometimes comes decades before any applied research is done. The private sector won't take on such high risk jobs with payback so far out.

A lot of medical research is done in partnerships between the federal government and medical research companies also.

So, if there is any benefit,

1) We don't know what it is.
2) It is "decades" away.

oh yeah..

and

3) Republicans want people to die of diseases.

[Vaevictis]

1) We don't know what it is.
2) It is "decades" away.

1. We know what we'll think they'll be. But you never know. There are tons of things in scientific research that resulted that were entirely accidental. The smallpox vaccine, penicillin, plastics, x-rays, lots of stuff was done during research and was stumbled upon entirely by accident. And then there are the many research efforts that ended up yielding nothing at all. Nobody knows for sure.
2. It could be decades away. It could be years away. It could be centuries away. In many ways, we're still in the "fundamental research" phase in this area.

It is the uncertainty that makes companies immensely relunctant to invest the kind of money that's necessary to get to the applied research phase. Once we get to that phase, companies will be lining up to get in on the action.


3) Republicans want people to die of diseases.

I just think this is a made-up issue by the right to try to energize the base.

As mentioned before, if these fertilized embryos are really humans, why the lack of outrage over IVF, where we routinely fertilize many eggs, and ****can the majority of them?

[Jerk]

1. We know what we'll think they'll be. But you never know. There are tons of things in scientific research that resulted that were entirely accidental. The smallpox vaccine, penicillin, plastics, x-rays, lots of stuff was done during research and was stumbled upon entirely by accident. And then there are the many research efforts that ended up yielding nothing at all. Nobody knows for sure.
2. It could be decades away. It could be years away. It could be centuries away. In many ways, we're still in the "fundamental research" phase in this area.

It is the uncertainty that makes companies immensely relunctant to invest the kind of money that's necessary to get to the applied research phase. Once we get to that phase, companies will be lining up to get in on the action.



I just think this is a made-up issue by the right to try to energize the base.

As mentioned before, if these fertilized embryos are really humans, why the lack of outrage over IVF, where we routinely fertilize many eggs, and ****can the majority of them?

Okay, I admit, I don't know much about this stuff. But when John Edwards said in 2004 "Elect us, and Christopher Reeves will be walking again!" it gives the impression to the average plebian that many cures for many diseases are right around the corner, if we just elect the right people...which is bulls***

[Mongo]

I really like the term ******rocket. It needs a picture.

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/7884/blastoffne7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[opksooner]

I have nothing to add here except to reiterate that

Rush Limbaugh is, in fact, a total ******rocket!

[Ike]

Okay, I admit, I don't know much about this stuff. But when John Edwards said in 2004 "Elect us, and Christopher Reeves will be walking again!" it gives the impression to the average plebian that many cures for many diseases are right around the corner, if we just elect the right people...which is bulls***

yeah, Edwards was full of **** when he phrased it like that, however he wasn't entirely off the mark. With the current attitudes in washington toward stem cell research (primarily in the white house), the cures are farther away than they would be with a more informed approach toward research. Christopher Reeves probably would still have never walked again by electing Kerry and Edwards, but then again, he might have....we can't really know.

Most likely, cures aren't just around the corner. But without doing the research, we most certainly won't find out just how important stem cells are.

What we do know about them now however leads scientists to believe that they hold a lot of future promise. They do some amazing things, naturally, and we have no idea how they do them...yet. The most amazing of all of the types of stem cells are the embryonic ones which have the power to divide rapidly and morph into every type of cell in your body. Adult stem cells can only morph into a few types of cells.

Think about the possibilities there...because they can be endless. Imagine what it would do for soldiers coming home from battle with devasting injuries, like say the loss of one or more limbs. If we could take some stem cells, tell em to become a leg, and let them work in a vat, we may not have to give them prosthetics or confine them to wheelchairs. The possibilities (so far) can be huge...

But in order to do anything with them in a safe and reliable manner, we have to know how the hell they work. How to get them to do what we want them to do, and not anything else that might cause more harm. It's a long road, and in the end we may find that it is indeed nigh impossible make them do what we want them to and only what we want them to. But we'll never know if we don't try.

[Jerk]

Ok, Ike. This is like anything else with science. That's like...if we pour enough money and research into a ballistic missile defense program, we *could* develope a means to do it, but it's not a guarantee. I can understand that. My gripe with this whole thing is that it should never have been politicized. I also can't help but wonder this question again: if there really is a promise for curing many diseases, why aren't companies pouring millions of dollars into this? This would be like me saying..."boys, there's gold in them thar mountains, but we need the federal gov't to dig the mines and find it for us"

Pharmaceutical (i have no idea how to spell that word) companies surely have BILLIONS of dollars for this kind of activity...what you call R&D?

[Scott D]

Pharmaceutical companies spend their money on Applied Research.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Only to those who haven't been paying attention.Please elaborate on the need for embryos in stem cell research. Specifically, what successes have taken place that a) convinces that embryos should be used in favor of stem cells from humans that have lived longer than embryos, and b) that tax dollars should be used to produce more embryos for medical experimentation.

[Vaevictis]

My gripe with this whole thing is that it should never have been politicized.

I can understand why it would be politicized *if* you accept the notion that human life begins at conception. If that's the case, then tearing embryos apart is murder (... and so is tossing them during an IVF procedure).

Obviously, I reject that premise, but if you accept the underlying premise, it's wholly reasonable.


I also can't help but wonder this question again: if there really is a promise for curing many diseases, why aren't companies pouring millions of dollars into this?

The short answer is that the risk/reward ratio is poor compared to other research avenues. There are lots of fields that are ready for applied research that can yield profits with high probability in short order. Think botox, viagra, etc.

If you were a CEO, would you invest billions of dollars in fundamental research that has a very low probability of making an ROI many years down the road if you had other options that were relatively high probability of making an ROI in a few years down the road?

Long term fundamental research is one of those areas that capitalism is not so good at advancing for that very reason.

To use your analogy of gold in the hills, imagine if there were a bunch of hills that might have gold. Some of them, you know have gold just sitting there on the surface waiting to be picked up. Some of them, the gold is just below the surface and ready to be dug up with minimal investment. Others might have gold, and it's relatively cheap in time and money to find out (compared to the following set).

And finally, yet others... well, there might be gold there, but you really don't know. The rock formations look promising, but it's going to take 20 years and billions of dollars of digging before you find out.

If you were an investor, which would you go for? Fundamental research is that last one, where it might look promising, but you really don't know, and it's going to cost you a long time and a lot of money to find out.

Applied research is more akin to the first few.

[Hatfield]

drug companies ain't in the business of finding ways to keep us healthy

[Ike]

Ok, Ike. This is like anything else with science. That's like...if we pour enough money and research into a ballistic missile defense program, we *could* develope a means to do it, but it's not a guarantee. I can understand that. My gripe with this whole thing is that it should never have been politicized. I also can't help but wonder this question again: if there really is a promise for curing many diseases, why aren't companies pouring millions of dollars into this? This would be like me saying..."boys, there's gold in them thar mountains, but we need the federal gov't to dig the mines and find it for us"

Pharmaceutical (i have no idea how to spell that word) companies surely have BILLIONS of dollars for this kind of activity...what you call R&D?

As vaevictis noted, the marketplace is fabulous at taking known principles and doing something creative with them that nobody expected. Known principles can be exploited in a rather short amount of time, and that sits well with the people who are concerned with the bottom line. The market however is pretty crappy when it comes to expanding known principles. Sure, they can expand some of them...the ones that come through product development, but when it comes to answering questions that have very little theoretical framework to begin with, the market sucks. Each little answer often times open up a whole host of new questions that require further study before a 'product' can exploit any new knowledge. Businesses are much more concerned with the next quarter or the next year (in some, but not many, maybe even the next decade), and when your R&D guys keep comming back year after year saying "we're really close to a breakthrough, but just need to answer X,Y and Z" the guys at the top start to wonder why they are wasting their money on it.

On a similar tangent to that...companies suck at sharing data. The competitive nature of business means that not only do questions X, Y and Z have to be answered by company A, but if company B wants to get in the mix, they have to start from scratch too. And if one of those companies goes under, or scraps their program before reaching the goal, that data often gets lost forever if they don't publish, and 99.99% of the time, they wont, unless it's in the form of a patent....they gotta make their money if someone else succeeds, and if they can patent a piece of the pie, they will.

The business environment also tends to bring out dishonest science. The researchers were hired to meet goals X,Y, and Z, and in business the game is to make money...not to be right. Researchers concerned about job security are more likely to fudge data to get that extra raise, which can lead to a ****ty product if the research ever leads to one at all.

This is why undirected research is important. Scientists are free to pursue the questions that they feel are most likely to expand the base of human knowledge. Maybe their answers do, maybe they don't. But in their case, the most important thing is not to come up with that one discovery that revolutionized the world (although everyone agrees that would be nice), but to be right...at least on the experimental side...on the theoretical side, its OK to be wrong (by which I mean you put up a theory that experiment eventually discards) sometimes, because it happens often, and to everyone. Not only that, but its equally important to verify that other people were right. The discovery of something is great, but until someone else verifies, independently, that the discovery is real, it's really not very meaningful.

Businesses won't fund this kind of research because they have no idea at all where it will take them, if anywhere at all. The payout might not come for decades...or longer, and if someone else beats you to the punch, patent wise, you are out a ton of money. But in the scientific community, if someone else beats you to the punch, its not a total loss. you still get to publish, and are likely to be the first independent confirmation of a phenomena, or you may spark a heated debate if your results are in disagreement with previous ones...like I said...it's more important to be right.

[Ike]

Please elaborate on the need for embryos in stem cell research. Specifically, what successes have taken place that a) convinces that embryos should be used in favor of stem cells from humans that have lived longer than embryos, and b) that tax dollars should be used to produce more embryos for medical experimentation.

sigh...

the need for embryos comes from the need for embryonic stem cells. They live in embryos. it is KNOWN that embryonic stem cells can morph into any kind of cell that exists in the human body. It is likewise KNOWN that adult stem cells can only morph into much fewer types of cells, depending on the type of stem cell in question. We have no idea how any of these work. Naturally, if we really want to discover the underlying mechanism for this morphing, embryonic stem cells are the place to look, as they have the largest number of degrees of freedom. Adult stem cells may give us part of the picture, but because they have a much more limited capacity for morphing, are very unlikely to tell us the whole story.


The reasons to use tax dollars are explained above...however, you seem like the type that doesn't want to spend any tax dollars on any research for anything anyway....in which case, can you please give me back your internet?

[Mongo]

You know, modern medicine is a wonder. The human lifespan is at its highest point in human history. What is wrong with letting a human "check out" of this life and quit prolonging it. Science should know that death cannot be avoided. Yes, stem cells could possibly stop diseases, but can it stop death of natural causes?

[usmc-sooner]

can we agree that no Democrat should be cloned? I'm not so much against taking their stems and cells, I just don't want anymore around.

[KABOOKIE]

Dude, if slick-willie's willy fell off from all the gag nasty ho's he was humping in the Oral Office then, I wouldn't want some new medical finding being able to help him replace his donger. **** that!

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

sigh...

.


The reasons to use tax dollars are explained above...however, you seem like the type that doesn't want to spend any tax dollars on any research for anything anyway....in which case, can you please give me back your internet?No, I'm more the type that is a bit suspicious about a cause which tends to support legalized abortions.

[Ike]

No, I'm more the type that is a bit suspicious about a cause which tends to support legalized abortions.


you are putting the cart before the horse there. The pro choice lobby were the ones pointing out stem cell research as though its some reason to keep abortion legal, not the scientists.

Just from the discarded embryos of IVF, scientists have no real problems acquiring cells for their research. I know a lot of scientists, many of whom are actually pro-choice. But not a single one of them would ever claim that they are pro-choice because of stem cell research. Every single one of them is pro-choice because a) they don't feel that a blastocyst is a human being and/or b) they don't think the government should be telling anyone what they can or can't do with their bodies.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

I got bad news too...Abortions are legal...so what is the sense in effecting research over something legal?

[SicEmBaylor]

The fact of the matter is that research on stem cell research that involves creating and then killing a fetus for the purpose of harvesting its stem cells isn't exactly an enumerated power of the Federal government.

If the people of the several states support EMBRYONIC stem cell research to such an extent that they support STATE funds being appropriated for that purpose then that is perfectly acceptable to me. In fact, several states have done that and just as competition is good in the open market place competition for the finest embryonic stem cell research scientists and advances between the states is also a good thing.

I do not support Federal funding of embryonic stem cell research purely because I am not a fan of allowing the Federal government to do anything that the private sector or the states should and could be doing better.

I find it morally distasteful which is why I do not support embryonic stem cell research on the STATE level.

ALL of that being said, I detest the way that various political groups, organizations, and parties parade out individuals who represent a particular need or problem and then seize the moral high ground when those individuals are criticized. Michael J. Fox has admitted to using his Parkinson's disease as a prop for political advancement of his cause. That justifiably opens him up for criticism just as it would open up criticism for anyone the right put up for one of their pet social issues.

[SicEmBaylor]

b) they don't think the government should be telling anyone what they can or can't do with their bodies.

Then can I ask you why they feel it's acceptable to expect Federal tax dollars that are paid, in large part, by a significant number of people who have moral (or otherwise) objections toward that type of research?

The clearest way to solve that problem is by dropping the issue of Federal funding and focus on state funding where state laws are and should be more in line with the moral beliefs and political leanings of their people.

I do bulk at many people who flinch at having the government tell people what htey can and can not do with their bodies, but don't flinch when the government runs their pocket book.

[SicEmBaylor]

can we agree that no Democrat should be cloned? I'm not so much against taking their stems and cells, I just don't want anymore around.

I would be in favor of Federal funding for cloning if we could clone James Traficant.

[SicEmBaylor]

drug companies ain't in the business of finding ways to keep us healthy

Nor should they be required to do.

That being said there is a market for medicine that has to be filled by someone for the purpose of making a profit and that "someone" is the drug industry. They have their problems as any industry does and they certainly aren't clean as a whistle but I think they've done a pretty decent job at developing new medications and solving health problems since the last century or so.

I think anyone who complains about the Pharmaceutical industry as a whole should look back when traveling salesmen sold elixir from the back of a wagon and tell me that drugs and medicine haven't come a long way for the good.

[SicEmBaylor]

.......and yes Rush is a ******.

[Ike]

The fact of the matter is that research on stem cell research that involves creating and then killing a fetus for the purpose of harvesting its stem cells isn't exactly an enumerated power of the Federal government.

ehhh...no. An embryo is created. Not a fetus. there's a big difference there.



If the people of the several states support EMBRYONIC stem cell research to such an extent that they support STATE funds being appropriated for that purpose then that is perfectly acceptable to me. In fact, several states have done that and just as competition is good in the open market place competition for the finest embryonic stem cell research scientists and advances between the states is also a good thing.

I only know of one state, California, that has done that...maybe others too. It's not a lot of money thats available though, as states typically do not tax as highly as the federal govt. The competition aspect of it is a little off though. It doesn't work in science the way it works in the open market.




I do not support Federal funding of embryonic stem cell research purely because I am not a fan of allowing the Federal government to do anything that the private sector or the states should and could be doing better.

Thats the point though. the private sector certainly can't do it better...In fact, they really can't do it at all...not until there is a larger base of knowledge anyway, and while the states can do something, they can't do it better at all.



I find it morally distasteful which is why I do not support embryonic stem cell research on the STATE level.

ALL of that being said, I detest the way that various political groups, organizations, and parties parade out individuals who represent a particular need or problem and then seize the moral high ground when those individuals are criticized. Michael J. Fox has admitted to using his Parkinson's disease as a prop for political advancement of his cause. That justifiably opens him up for criticism just as it would open up criticism for anyone the right put up for one of their pet social issues.

Michael J. Fox's "cause" that he is using his parkinsons disease for is FINDING A CURE FOR PARKINSONS. Is that so unbelievable. Criticize him all you want for that, but I really have no problem with it...even if he was hamming it up a little.

Oh, and because I haven't seen it noted, I heard on the news last night that Rush has issued MJF a formal apology.

[Ike]

Then can I ask you why they feel it's acceptable to expect Federal tax dollars that are paid, in large part, by a significant number of people who have moral (or otherwise) objections toward that type of research?

The clearest way to solve that problem is by dropping the issue of Federal funding and focus on state funding where state laws are and should be more in line with the moral beliefs and political leanings of their people.

I do bulk at many people who flinch at having the government tell people what htey can and can not do with their bodies, but don't flinch when the government runs their pocket book.


I have strong moral objections to Nuclear weaponry, but that hasn't stopped the federal government from using my tax dollars to pay for them.

[SicEmBaylor]

I have strong moral objections to Nuclear weaponry, but that hasn't stopped the federal government from using my tax dollars to pay for them.

National defense is a clear constitutional responsibility of the Federal government, embryonic stem cell research is not.

[Vaevictis]

They have their problems as any industry does and they certainly aren't clean as a whistle but I think they've done a pretty decent job at developing new medications and solving health problems since the last century or so.

I think anyone who complains about the Pharmaceutical industry as a whole should look back when traveling salesmen sold elixir from the back of a wagon and tell me that drugs and medicine haven't come a long way for the good.

You can thank government regulation for a lot -- if not almost all of -- that ;)

[Ike]

National defense is a clear constitutional responsibility of the Federal government, embryonic stem cell research is not.


I'd hardly call levelling an entire city "defensive."

[SicEmBaylor]

I only know of one state, California, that has done that...maybe others too. It's not a lot of money thats available though, as states typically do not tax as highly as the federal govt. The competition aspect of it is a little off though. It doesn't work in science the way it works in the open market.

MA and 3 other states have the legislation in the pipeline. You're right that they don't tax as high as the Federal government, but that is hardly grounds to justify ANYTHING. You could argue a state doesn't tax high enough to pay for all of its road construction so the Feds should step in, you could argue that don't tax enough to pay their teachers an adequate salary so the Feds should step in, you could argue any state doesn't tax enough to do any number of 10 billion different pet projects you'd love for the Federal government to fork the cash over for but at the end of the day the Feds are responsible for the powers that have been constitutionally granted to them and the states responsible for the rest.


Thats the point though. the private sector certainly can't do it better...In fact, they really can't do it at all...not until there is a larger base of knowledge anyway, and while the states can do something, they can't do it better at all.

If they can't do it better than that's even less of a concern for me. EVERYTHING has an open market value and whether or not science can compete and work within that open market is a problem for science to work out for itself.


Michael J. Fox's "cause" that he is using his parkinsons disease for is FINDING A CURE FOR PARKINSONS. Is that so unbelievable. Criticize him all you want for that, but I really have no problem with it...even if he was hamming it up a little.

I have no problem with him doing it at all, but I have a problem with those who think he is above criticism. If you advocate for any political idea then you are not above having it criticized especially when you do something as nutty as go off your meds to make a political point.


Oh, and because I haven't seen it noted, I heard on the news last night that Rush has issued MJF a formal apology.

It wasn't much of one. I'm not defending Rush...I detest Rush but at the same time I'm disgusted by those who act indignant because he pointed out that it looked like Fox was off his meds when doing the commercial when in fact Fox has admitted to do precisely that (in his book he stated that he did this prior to giving congressional testimony to increase the impact of his statements)!

[SicEmBaylor]

I'd hardly call levelling an entire city "defensive."

I would if the threat if the result of not having those weapons is the leveling of 100 of OUR cities.

If you're referring to Hiroshima/Nagasaki it's defensive if it saves the lives of well over 100,000 American troops.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Michael J. Fox's "cause" that he is using his parkinsons disease for is FINDING A CURE FOR PARKINSONS. Is that so unbelievable. Criticize him all you want for that, but I really have no problem with it...even if he was hamming it up a little.

Oh, and because I haven't seen it noted, I heard on the news last night that Rush has issued MJF a formal apology.Rush's complaint was that MJF misrepresented a Missouri politician's position, in order to criticise that politician. He did not criticise MJF for anything but the misrepresentation. I don't know what he apologized for, nor am I certain he apologized for anything.(have you read the apology anywhere?)

[SicEmBaylor]

You can thank government regulation for a lot -- if not almost all of -- that ;)

Which, to some degree I have no problem with. If the drugs are going to be marketed nation-wide then the Feds have the constitutional right to regulate that interstate trade. Now...let's hypothetically say that a drug company opened up in Kansas for the purpose of selling drugs ONLY in Kansas, in that case the state of Kansas and NOT the Federal government would have oversight of those drugs.

If Phizer, for example, really wanted to get out from under the heel of government regulation they'd open up 50 different shops in each state selling only to the people of those states and flip the bird to the Feds...this will never happen becuase their costs would be out of this world having to conform to 50 different state regulations. This is why big business (one of my many many complaints with them) advocates for Federal, rather than state, regulation. It's far far cheaper to work with 1 overriding Federal regulatory body than 50 state ones. This has come at the expense of federalism and is an example of the damage big business has done to this nation.

[Ike]

If they can't do it better than that's even less of a concern for me. EVERYTHING has an open market value and whether or not science can compete and work within that open market is a problem for science to work out for itself.






you might want to think about giving back your internet then...

either that or start learning mandarin.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

The following from MEDIAMATTERS, Oct. 25


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


On the October 25 edition of his nationally syndicated radio show, while responding to criticism of statements he made about actor Michael J. Fox's appearance in a campaign ad for Missouri Democratic Senate candidate Claire McCaskill, Rush Limbaugh claimed: "Daffy Duck could have done a commercial for Claire McCaskill, saying the same things that Fox did, misleading about stem cell research ... and my reaction would've been the same." As Media Matters for America noted, Limbaugh declared on October 23 that because Fox, who has Parkinson's disease, was "moving all around and shaking" in the ad, his physical appearance was "purely an act." Limbaugh then added that Fox "[e]ither didn't take his medication or he's acting," and has since refused to apologize for suggesting that Fox was "acting" in the ad.

Also on the October 25 broadcast, Limbaugh claimed that the media's response to his remarks has been that of "a hysterical mother who is afraid her little boy won't be able to defend himself after he picked a fight." Limbaugh also again claimed of Fox's appearance in the McCaskill ad: "This is a strategy, it is a tactic that the Democrats have used as long as I've been observing politics and, I'm sorry, the days are over where I follow the script." He concluded: "I stand by what I said. I take back none of what I said. I wouldn't rephrase it any differently. It is what I believe. It is what I think. It is what I have found to be true."

On the October 25 edition of MSNBC News Live, host Melissa Slager aired Limbaugh's non-apology and added that "Michael J. Fox has, in the past, admitted to not taking his medication before certain appearances, but he has not said whether or not he took it during the shooting of these political ads." However, according to an October 25 New York Times article, "[a] spokesman for Mr. Fox said his tremors were caused by his medication." Slager made her comment just moments after she aired Limbaugh's similar statement that "I'm just suggesting that if he's done it once, done it twice, could he have done it in the McCaskill ad?" Slager did not address Limbaugh's initial assertion that Fox's appearance in the ad was "purely an act."

From the October 25 edition of Premiere Radio Networks' The Rush Limbaugh Show:

LIMBAUGH: This is not about Parkinson's disease to me, and this not about Michael J. Fox and it never was and, to me, it is not personal and never has been. I don't know him. I've no -- I've never met him. I know of him only through his career as an actor and a political activist.

I think when anyone climbs into the arena of ideas -- the political arena of ideas -- particularly during a heated campaign, they do not get the special privilege of being the only fighter allowed to throw a punch. There are not special people among us who get to enter the political arena of ideas and say whatever they want; they can mislead, they can misquote, they can misrepresent, they can even lie; and yet we're supposed to, if they are victims of something, stand back, be compassionate, be tolerant and understand and not respond.

Sorry, I don't follow the script. Daffy Duck could have done a commercial for Claire McCaskill, saying the same things that Fox did, misleading about stem cell research and Jim Talent, or in Maryland with Ben Cardin and Michael Steele, and my reaction would've been the same; I would have reacted and responded to Daffy Duck.

[SicEmBaylor]

you might want to think about giving back your internet then...

either that or start learning mandarin.

Wasn't the internet initially developed by the DOD and state universities?

[Vaevictis]

Wasn't the internet initially developed by the DOD and state universities?

With federal research grants, in partnership with private entities (BBN mostly). Some of it had to do with the DOD, but the DOD was only one of many interested parties (within the federal government).

[Scott D]

you know, you could replace Rush Limbaugh with Porky Pig and I doubt any of his listeners would notice a difference.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

you know, you could replace Rush Limbaugh with Porky Pig and I doubt any of his listeners would notice a difference.Scott, you're gonna have to do better than that, to make this thing more fun.(to even rise to your standard of "dildonic")

[picasso]

I'm not sure Limbow's statements are any worse than these candidates using MJ Fox for their own elections.

that's the really sick part. I've also seen where the U.S. spent 630 million on said research in 2005.

[12]

That's not enough!! Throw more money, consarnit!

[Ike]

Wasn't the internet initially developed by the DOD and state universities?

The infrastructure was. the net as you know it (aka, the world wide web) was the result of particle physics research.

[Scott D]

Scott, you're gonna have to do better than that, to make this thing more fun.(to even rise to your standard of "dildonic")

You are absolutely right. I am as we speak writing an email of apology to Looney Toons, and one to the late Mel Blanc for ever insinuating that Rush Limbaugh could EVER reach the point of clarity that Porky Pig always had.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Are you serious? Please, tell me you're not serious, and ultimately, not that ignorant.

Yes. Go spend years jamming your penis into the crap end of another man and see what happens to you. You'll die of AIDS.

AIDS never blew up into "everyone's" disease the way gay activists fantasized about. It is still nearly 100% the disease of fags and intravenous drug users.

The question is not whether I'm ignorant, but whether you are too naive. Jamming your penis in the butt is dirty and causes a deadly disease. Period.

Newsflash - physiologically, the butt is final stage in the body's waste expulsion process. It's not an intake area. Surely, you understand this. Or, maybe not.

[Tear Down This Wall]

That felt good.

In addition, buttjamming supporters, adult stem cells have been found to further medicine already. Embryonic stem cell research has proven nothing other than it will cause cancer tumors in rats. Excellent!

It's amazing how leftists cling to nothing in the hopes of something - especially when something else is already working. Or, maybe it's not amazing. They still think income redistribution is the answer to poverty.

Leftists = buttjamming pipedreamers bent on their naive stupidity.

[TopDawg]

TDTW = obsessed with buttjamming

[Hatfield]

That felt good.

In addition, buttjamming supporters, adult stem cells have been found to further medicine already. Embryonic stem cell research has proven nothing other than it will cause cancer tumors in rats. Excellent!

It's amazing how leftists cling to nothing in the hopes of something - especially when something else is already working. Or, maybe it's not amazing. They still think income redistribution is the answer to poverty.

Leftists = buttjamming pipedreamers bent on their naive stupidity.

you know what the definition of research is right?

and it appears you have a firm handle on ignorance, hate, bias, and douchtasticbombastic.

[NormanPride]

Excellent word! ******tasticbombastic. I've gotta use that one somewhere...

[Tear Down This Wall]

I know this:

Adult stem cell research = already proven results
Embryonic stem cell research = cancer tumors produced in rats

I also know this:
Democrats in '04 = Pathetic attempt to scoreboard Christopher Reeves' death
Democrats in '06 = equally pathetic attempt to scoreboard Michael Fox's Parkinson's disease.

Any way you slice it, the Democrats are pathetic in their claims that embryonic stem cell research has proven it can do anything other than make total opportunitistic liars like John Edwards say "elect us and Christopher Reeves will walk."

Pathetic. Just...pathetic. And, sadly, these are grown-ups saying this type of thing who, supposedly, have high degrees of education. Talk about *********s.

[Hatfield]

Excellent word! ******tasticbombastic. I've gotta use that one somewhere...

it just came to me...but it has a nice ring to it

[Rhino]

Fox: I wasn't acting or off medication (http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/10/27/fox.couric.ap/index.html)

POSTED: 5:06 a.m. EDT, October 27, 2006

NEW YORK (AP) -- In a response to charges by conservative talk-show host Rush Limbaugh, Michael J. Fox defended his appearance in recent political campaign ads, saying he was neither acting nor off his medication for Parkinson's disease.

On the contrary, he had been overmedicated, the actor said during an interview aired on Thursday's "CBS Evening News with Katie Couric."

"The irony of it is that I was too medicated," Fox told Couric, adding that his jumpy condition as he spoke to her reflected "a dearth of medication -- not by design. I just take it, and it kicks in when it kicks in."

"That's funny -- the notion that you could calculate it for effect," he said. "Would that we could."

The 7 1/2-minute interview with Fox, whose shaking at one point dislodged the microphone clipped to his jacket lapel, aired in two segments taped Thursday afternoon on the "Evening News" set.

Fox drew some conservative criticism after an ad began running in Missouri during the World Series. It showed Fox visibly shaking while urging fans to vote yes for stem-cell research and Democratic Senate challenger Claire McCaskill -- and no to the Republican incumbent Jim Talent.

"They say all politics is local, but it's not always the case," Fox says in the 30-second spot. "What you do in Missouri matters to millions of Americans -- Americans like me."

Fox, who supports research on embryonic stem cell for a potential cure for Parkinson's, also has lent his celebrity to Democrats Rep. Benjamin L. Cardin, running for the Senate in Maryland, and Wisconsin Gov. Jim Doyle, who is seeking re-election. Both politicians also back stem-cell research.

The ads triggered a backlash, with radio commentator Limbaugh claiming during his broadcast that Fox was "either off his medication or acting." Limbaugh called Fox "really shameless" in his effort to stir up sympathy. Limbaugh apologized later in the broadcast.

Fox told Couric that he did the ads only to advance his cause, and that he doesn't care about politics.

"Disease is a nonpartisan problem that requires a bipartisan solution," he said.

"Would you support a Republican candidate?" Couric asked.

"I have," Fox replied. "I've campaigned for Arlen Specter," describing the Republican senator from Pennsylvania as a "fantastic champion of stem-cell research."

"We have a right if there's answers out there, to pursue those answers with the full support of our politicians," he said.

Fox, 45, who starred on TV's "Family Ties" and "Spin City" as well as the "Back to the Future" films, was diagnosed with Parkinson's in 1991 and revealed his condition publicly in 1998. In 2000, he quit full-time acting because of his symptoms and founded the Michael J. Fox Foundation for Parkinson's Research, which has raised millions of dollars.

At the conclusion of the first segment of the interview, Couric told viewers that her father has Parkinson's and that she has made contributions for research to Fox's foundation.

[NormanPride]

That's from CNN. We can't trust it. They most likely spliced that together from other interviews or completely falsified it.

[KABOOKIE]

******tasticbombastic? Sorry, I’m going to put this in the dildonic category.

[Tear Down This Wall]

The lie is that he says he's supported Republican candidates, then names Arlen Specter as an example :D

[NormanPride]

You have no taste in words, my friend. :D

[Ike]

I know this:

Adult stem cell research = already proven results
Embryonic stem cell research = cancer tumors produced in rats



Adult stem cell research = very limited possibilities. these stem cells just aren't capable of the wide multitude of functions of embryonic stem cells. They are also more difficult to collect, isolate, and grow in the lab. Some kinds of cells may not have adult stem cells that are responsible for replacing them, or at least they have not been found yet. These are just a few of the limitations on the possibilities that adult stem cell research can bring us.

Embryonic stem cell research = free of all of those limitations....and tumors (non-cancerous) produced in mice (not rats) was a side effect on ONE study in a young field. This stuff isn't like smoking where one can say point blank "stem cells cause cancer", because it just isnt true. One method of using stem cells caused tumors. There are many more to try.


But way to go with misrepresenting the entire issue.

[Vaevictis]

AIDS never blew up into "everyone's" disease the way gay activists fantasized about.

Well, not in the United States anyway. Africa and Asia, on the other hand...


In addition, buttjamming supporters, adult stem cells have been found to further medicine already. Embryonic stem cell research has proven nothing other than it will cause cancer tumors in rats. Excellent!

You neglected to mention the other part -- while the embryonic stem cells did cause tumors in the rats, they also essentially cured the rats of the Parkinson's-like disease that they had.

The cancer causing effect was not entirely unanticipated. They always knew it might happen. This is one of the reasons research is needed -- without the research, we wouldn't actually know that (a) that the stem cells could cure the Parkinson's like disease and (b) that it could also cause tumors. And with further research, we may find (c): how to obtain the benefits of curing the Parkinson's like disease while supressing the tendency for unchecked cell division.

Further, these were human embryonic stem cells injected into rats. We still don't know if the effects in humans would be the same -- the good or the bad.

EDIT: Cancer versus tumors is important here. According to a researcher on the experiment in question, the cell growth resulted in non-cancerous tumors. Which is considerably different than cancer.

[sitzpinkler]

Yes. Go spend years jamming your penis into the crap end of another man and see what happens to you. You'll die of AIDS.

AIDS never blew up into "everyone's" disease the way gay activists fantasized about. It is still nearly 100% the disease of fags and intravenous drug users.

The question is not whether I'm ignorant, but whether you are too naive. Jamming your penis in the butt is dirty and causes a deadly disease. Period.

Newsflash - physiologically, the butt is final stage in the body's waste expulsion process. It's not an intake area. Surely, you understand this. Or, maybe not.

I just have to laugh at this because it's obviously a joke. Nobody could be this dumb.

Anal sex will not cause AIDS to just suddenly appear. You don't just all of a sudden contract AIDS because you're having anal sex. The person has to be infected with the virus already, and in that case, it could anal or vaginal sex.

[Tear Down This Wall]

The person has to be infected with the virus already, and in that case, it could anal or vaginal sex.

With fags (anal) or prostitutes/drug addicts (intravenous drug users).

[Mjcpr]

I can't decide if this is Dean or Tuba's troll.

[sitzpinkler]

okay, it's too obvious you're a troll now

[12]

Mr. Apple, are you saying orange isn't good? I sure like oranges.

[jk the sooner fan]

your right, gays didnt get aids in such drastic numbers because they were having anal sex

it was because of their taste in clothing and home design

[NormanPride]

your right, gays didnt get aids in such drastic numbers because they were having anal sex

it was because of their taste in clothing and home design

I think it has to do with their lisp. It attracts the AIDS. The AIDS can hear the lisp like bears smell women when they're... you know. :(

[crawfish]

http://images.chron.com/apps/comics/images/2006/10/27/Dilbert.847.g.gif

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Arlen Specter is obviously a Republican. Only a Republican could come up with something as awesome as a Magic Bullet Theory!!