OU's Talent, AD's Injury, and The State of Oklahoma Football

[the_ouskull]

I'd like to start this off by first saying that I AM going to be signing my name at the end of this thread, so if some of SASyou have a problem with that, feel free to stop reading now.

Second, these are just opinions. MY opinions. If yours differ, feel free to state your opinions as well. That's what these boards are for, right? I've been thinking a bit about some of the things I've read on these boards these last few weeks though, and I pieced some thoughts together... this is them.

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First of all, I JUST read something about what Trent Smith was saying... namely, that he wasn't that impressed with our current talent when they were scout team and he was a senior or whatever.

I buy it.

A LOT of the guys that we currently have starting and playing a LOT of snaps for this team are guys that are / were supposed to be backups.

-- How many of our lineman are supposed to be playing right now? I mean, Messner was never a starter, or even really competing for the job until all of our lineman left / got injured, etc... and he's our Senior Leader on the line. I'm not bemoaning him, at all, but, honestly, he's not of the quality that we're used to having on our line. How many linemen did we lose in the 2003 debacle? How many of THEM should be starting for this team right now? Akim Millington was a Top 100 player out of H.S. We'll see him at Illinois next year... Brandon Keith...? Where's he? Brian Zimple? Antonn Reid? These are all guys who should at the VERY least, be in the rotation right now, if not starting and dominating... especially Millington.
-- Thompson, as good as he's been playing, and he's been playing REALLY well, isn't supposed to be our starting QB right now. Tommy Grady is. (Although I'm glad Thompson is, honestly...) And, if not Grady, Bomar...
-- Then there's our receiver play. Kelly is a stud, but he's only a sophomore, and we've had a number of WR's alternate between playing really well, and not playing well at all. This speaks to players playing before they're ready to play as much as their individual talent level. Once again, we can look at the 2003 class. We failed to sign Robert Meachem, who is tearing it up at Tennessee. Tristan Ross? Marcus Johnson? Having these guys on the field, providing depth and leadership would NOT suck. Although when Iglesias is dropping more balls than the Vienna Boys Choir it really doesn't help either...
-- Linebackers? Rufus is a stud. Latimer is playing really well right now. Other than them, we have Lewis Baker, who is on again, off again from safety because he's not big enough to be a linebacker or fast enough to play in the secondary. We have Demarrio Pleasant, who, while nice and all, isn't the quality of player that we're used to at his position. Ryan Reynolds is though... (Injured...) What about Dane Zaslaw? See?
-- The secondary. Other than Reggie Smith, who would you say we can't do without right now? Marcus Walker is (finally) getting back to his pre-injury form. Nic Harris has been playing really well. Honestly, ALL of the secondary has been coming on lately... but, every time I see someone get burned deep, the closest Sooner jersey is always #25. We also have a WR doing some ball-hawking. Sometimes this works out... (Woolfolk.) Sometimes, it does not... (Lewis Baker, D.J. Wolfe, Lendy Holmes...)
-- Defensive lineman. Wow. Every guy that we signed in 2003 is still here, and still playing, but the problem with them is that they're ALL undersized. When you get to college you're supposed to put on some weight. When your ends are undersized, it's okay... they're out there to attack the QB. When your ends AND your tackles are undersized, teams run the ball up the middle against you (successfully) all day long... ALL of the guys we have on the line right now, with the exception of pre-injury Birdine, would be backing up better, more talented players, in most years. NONE of them are starting quality.

THIS is the root of the problem. With all of the attrition from the 2003 class, we haven't had any leeway for the busts that almost always come with every class. Can anybody think of a recruiting class where EVERYBODY worked out perfectly? I can't. That's the thing... we lost so many players from 2003 that, when some of them didn't work out, WHICH IS NORMAL, their slots were filled in with players who are / were better suited to be backups because THEY didn't work out either. This isn't common, especially at OU, but it CAN (obviously) happen. it won't be until next year or the year after that we can get completely back on track. We've had a lot of bad luck with injuries, etc... yes, but our depth is our major issue right now. I feel like Trent Smith was right. I look on the field and I see a lot of guys that simply should not be starting at the University of Oklahoma. Whose fault that is, frankly, is of little importance to me, because the issue exists whether or not fault is assigned to it. But, I have faith in Coach Stoops to correct the problems. I just hope he does it soon. Mack Brown currently has no such problems, and, for us to get back to winning, we're gonna have to cross the tollgate in Dallas in October. Currently, Tejas is working the booth.

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AD's injury. Wow. Just when we were saying to ourselves, "what else can go wrong this year." I've heard all kinds of crap on other boards about how he was diving in the endzone to show off... etc... It makes me sad that these idiots are trying to make AD look bad when it's obvious that his legs were hit AS he dove, but whatever. When you're the best, there are going to be haters. I just hope that we haven't seen him on an Oklahoma field for the last time. However, I think that only two things will get him back in crimson next season.

1) His dad only got to see him play 1 game for OU.
2) NFL teams, as if they didn't already, are going to have even MORE questions about his durability now. He has still yet to play an injury-free season here at OU. That's a big deal in the NFL.

I hope he's back, but if it's not to be, then so be it. We WILL move on because, unlike most of our other positions, RB is NOT one where depth is an issue. Also, his being out for the rest of this year, as many of you have already stated, will allow Thompson and his brilliant play to shine, which he MORE than deserves...

...assuming that, now that the threat of Peterson is gone, teams still bite on our play-action rollouts.

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I think that, as odd as it is to say right now, OU football is at a crossroads. If we win out, with previously unheralded players shining brightly, then we'll be looking pretty good for next year. If we tank and the offense goes from looking decent to looking poor, then we could be in trouble. This year's recruiting class and the development of our existiing (talented) young players will be more important than it's ever been. Another loss to Tejas, and people are going to start grumbling about Coach Stoops. They're ALREADY grumbling about some of his assistants... (ie - BV) And, to date, Bob has proven that he's got NO problem cutting loose players that deserve it... but he's been less harsh with coaches. (Chuck Long...) Is Bob the kind of guy that, if a coach isn't performing, he'll get on him, or does he turn all John Blake, pat-'em-on-the-*** with them...?

Those are the major questions we have heading into next season, IMHO. As for the rest of this year... if Allen Patrick can give us a homerun threat at RB, then I don't see our offense stalling too much. He's no AD... NOBODY is... but the wheels don't have to fall off either.

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Sorry to take up so much of everybody's time. I just felt like venting a bit and getting some thoughts for discussion out there... Take care, all.

the_ouskull

[Jackal]

Very nice post and I agree with everything you say, unfortunately you will probaly get neg repped. It seems if you don't say everything is fine and PT is great, you get bashed for telling the truth on these boards.

P.S. What's up with Igesias, he can't catch aids in a Hollywood bathhouse.

[Egeo]

i dont like trent smith's attitude

*also, i dont think you should close the books on baker, wolfe and holmes career just yet

[StoopTroup]

I think Birdine deserves some OU Soonerfan love for his play yesterday.

He played his A$$ off IMO.

[Scott D]

this thread is going to get very amusing

[SoonerProphet]

D Will looked solid out there yesterday, while Reg, not so much.

2003 and some nimrods for qb recruits has been the big suck for the program.

Hard to replace a DD, but defensive line looked pretty good. I know it is just Iowa St. but before Hicks run at half, and after, we played well.

Just some thoughts.

[the_ouskull]

I think Birdine deserves some OU Soonerfan love for his play yesterday.

He played his A$$ off IMO.

No doubt he did... He's starting to get back to his pre-USC form too...

the_ouskull

[SoonerProphet]

Oh, and we still play 4 quarters like a team dominated by RS. Sophs and true Sophs.

[delhalew]

I think Birdine deserves some OU Soonerfan love for his play yesterday.

He played his A$$ off IMO.

I agree. Larry really stepped up.

[jk the sooner fan]

Jason White staying for the extra year has had a much greater effect on the program (recruiting) than i think alot of people are aware of

[SoonerProphet]

Jason White staying for the extra year has had a much greater effect on the program (recruiting) than i think alot of people are aware of

I concur, especially maybe in the qb development area...and we recruited some morons there as well.

[Scott D]

yeah, it's not like Grady is lighting up the world at Utah :D

[StoopTroup]

Can AD qualify for a Medical Redshirt?

[fadada1]

2 things... actually 3:

1 - i agree with the skull. nothing bad to say about it.

2 - somebody else mentioned it... we've got to get back to recruiting the kids that WANT to win by earning it.. not the kids that think they are ENTITLED to it because they are 5 star players.

3 - my buddy thinks stoops sold his soul for the 2000 season. might be something to it.

[OUstud]

Since Wolfe is getting burned, why not move him back to RB? I believe he was #4 in the country out of HS (a 6A school, one of the Lawtons) so why not give him some carries? Maybe he could be another good Wolfe RB.

[SoonerRoads]

You know, I agree to some extent, but not entirely. I will say this however, the trademark of OU's program since Stoops has been there has been finding talent and developing it. Either making highly recruited players better, or taking players not so highly recruited and bringing out the very best in them. Base talent and natural ability plays a part, but it is coaching that develops talent. I think that there are someissues with coaching at OU. For instance, the same DE's we have this year, were there last year and they were dominate DE's last year. Bobby Jack Wright was coaching DE's last year and then he was moved to coach the secondary for this year. Has that had an effect? I am not sure, but that seems to be the only thing that has changed, unless there has also been a change in defensive schemes. Regardless, it comes back to coaching and coaching decisions.

Offensively, we are operating(again) with a thin, makeshift line, but just as last year, they seem to get better with every game. PT isn't going to be anyones #1 pick as a QB in the NFL draft, but being forced into service as he has been this year, he is doing exactly what they wanted him to do.......not try to make HUGE plays, but just manage the game. I think he has done a great job of that. With Gut hurt early and Patrick having a problem hanging onto the ball, I never could understand redshirting all of those RB's that we brought in that were supposed to be so great, but I am not inside the program, so I have to assume that they knew what they were doing. But I might have kept at least one out and tried to give him some game experience for just this kind of possibility(I mean, AD has been hurt every year at some point where he couldn't play).

I think the D-Line is big enough to get the job done but for whatever reason(scheme, talent, lack of understanding), they are not keeping the opponents O-Line off the LB's. This makes it pretty tough for the LB's to move and make plays like they did last year. I already addressed the DE's and I am stumped as to what is going on there. And I agree that there has been some apparent bad decisions about the secondary positions but they even seem to be coming around a getting better with every game. We can say what we want, but holding Texas to 200 yards and change in total offense is not an easy feat and I think that was a huge game for the D's confidence. Yes, we were beat deep twice late in the second half and that enabled Texas to beat us, but that was two plays. Big plays, but just two out all the plays the rest of the day.

I love the Sooners and I have been a Sooner fan since I was old enough to walk. But I am not one to always drink the "kool-aid" and carry the company line. I call it the way I see it. The Sooners have some issues and have some challenges ahead of them. I think in light of losing AD, they will do just what they did last year and pull together, diversify the offense more and spread the ball around more and we will be a better team for it.

We'll be o.k.

Boomer Sooner

[StoopTroup]

Darrie Williams...

7 solo tackles, 2 assists , an INT and 2 sacks.

Another good day for a Sooner.

[stoopified]

Skull while I appreciate your passion I do disagree on several points.Talent level for one is relative,as we do have many bluechip players.Blue-chip players can be overrated however.Recall that the 2000NC team was blue-collar not blue-chip.Heupel,unheralded juco,Burcham walk -on,Steffen walk-on,Henecke walk-on.Stocker McDoogle was heralded juco o-lineman who had to be rebuilt by Mangino after being a bust in'98. Our dts were Ryan Fisher a 6'1 294 converted o-lineman and Jeremy Wilson-Guest who was a walking hospital advertisement.We had two blue-chip DEs one who played average(Callens) and one who didn't play at all (Bright).We had converts from all over playing WR and DB,a pint-szed unheralded TB.I could go on but you get the idea.

As for OUr lines both Offensive and Defensive they are undersized by design apparently as Stoops has always had lean lineman and has dismissed those who do not work hard enough for him and Schmitty.That is one reason we have had turnover on o-line in particular .Among these casualties are DT Damper(all-world blue-chip but no wrk ethic),OL Millington and Keith who were running 1st and 2nd team but quit the week before the season opener.They both did come back but upon being demoted to scout and told they had to EARN their previos roles,they quit.Millington is starting this year at lowly Illinois,who knows or cares about Keith?

Wrs?TEs are young but talented and Yes KELLY is a stud,and Igleisas isn't as consistaent as we would like but Clayton,Savage,Jones,Peoples,Bradley weren't always perfect.I recall a pass dropped in the endzone by Clayton in the Sugar Bowl for instance.As for Tristian and Marcus,I don't think they would provide any more depth than Chaney,Strong.They both have had academic issues as well.

At QB we have had a myriad of talent that has not worked out for various reasons:Bomar,Rawls-stupid,Grady sought greener pastures.That happens everywhere,OU can't control it.

At LB we would be in great shape if Reynolds doesn't get hurt,but guess what ?Rufus is not playing to his 2005 form and neither is Latimer,is that on them or the coaches? Trust Bob if it is the coaches,action WILL be taken. Dane Zaslaw was a bust at LB was moved to FB and is buried on the depth chart,was still on the team when media guides were printed,As far as underperforming goes that applys to our DEs.last year Thib and Ah You were studs,this year not.We added Williams and Birdine to the mix and yet we are playing less effectively.I can't help wondering if maybe we are playing too many DEs.

As for OUr secondary that is a mystery to me.Wolfe was proably Our best CB the last half of last year and now appears lost,if we had 4 Reggies we would be ALL-World.Unable to do that I think Wiliams and Reggie at S and Holmes and Walker at corner with Harris at Nickel back can be a winning secondary.

As for ADs injury and what it means for this year?I don't know but because I have CONFIDENCE in Bob and the staff I think we can win OUt.If we can just be efficent at TB with Patrick,Gute,and possibly one of our frosh I think we will be all rigght.I say think Kj-Renaldo type TB perfoemance,steady but not spectacular.

I agree this years ending will have an effect on next year and beyond but doesn't it alway?Ut is still an important game but win or lose we can still get talent out of Texas just as UT did while we whipped them 5 straight.
Well Skull and fellow Sooners that is my opinion,trying to cover all points.Skull I can't help thinking you were just at a low ,dark ebb in your psyche as so much of your post was gloom and doom.Cheer up man,WE are SOONERS not whorns or Cowpukes.

[the_ouskull]

Dude, I'm good. Just thinking out loud.

the_ouskull

[dolemitesooner]

No you didnt sign the thread at the end because I dont belive your mother named you THE OUSKULL

[dolemitesooner]

Your saying our program is bad because we didnt sign certain players like Ryan Meacham. We'll **** I can name 10,000 players we did not sign ...You can't get everyone. Lol...your part of the 90%

[Rhino]

Mostly, I think we're seeing some effects from the bastard of a 2003 class. When all four of your top 100 guys (Cade, Grady, Dampeer, Millington) and seven others leave the program, it's really tough to recover from.

Akim Millington was a Top 100 player out of H.S. We'll see him at Illinois next year... He's playing for Illinois this year.

Antonn Reid? Ya know, I heard someone bring up his name in the Sports Animal pregame yesterday. I couldn't believe he was even mentioned. Sure, he was on the team for one semester and everything, but he was a two-star guy with bad grades that we took a chance on. He was never expected to do anything but provide depth. Meanwhile, the guy we rejected for him (Ian-Yates Cunningham) saw immediate playing time at Virginia...and played very well. If only Lewis Baker could have convinced the coaches.

[the_ouskull]

Re: Dolemite.

(And for those of you who don't like the Re: either, **** off... What's it say that, for everything you think is wrong with me, you're talking about me in a place where I can't read it...? Can I move out of my apartment and just continue to live rent-free in your dome or what?)

First of all, you really need to make sure that, if you're talking to me, you address me like an adult. Second, you may want to have someone read to you what I wrote initally, because you obviously weren't capable of doing it correctly on your own.

I said that things like letting Robert Meachem go to Tennessee hurt us, yes, but I didn't say that they are the sole reason that "our program is bad," in part because I did NOT say that "our program is bad," or anything even remotely close to that. The other part being the entire rest of what I said. If you read only one line out of a 1418 word essay, and you can't even get THAT one right, why do you even bother with these boards?

Here's the quote that you were talking about... find me the part where I mentioned Robert Meachem as being the reason for OU's "bad program."


Once again, we can look at the 2003 class. We failed to sign Robert Meachem, who is tearing it up at Tennessee. Tristan Ross? Marcus Johnson? Having these guys on the field, providing depth and leadership would NOT suck.

You'd think you'd have learned your lesson from the last time you tried to talk sh*t to me...

To say that we are a fairly talented team that isn't overacheiving with what they're putting on the field isn't rude, or a sign of "a bad program." It's a fair assessment. We don't have All-World talent across the board on this team. 10 of 11 starters on D aren't going to get drafted. (I'd be suprised if more than 3 do. Reggie Smith, Rufus, and MAYBE Latimer.) We may only have 1 offensive starter get drafted... Malcom Kelly. (I'm obviously not counting AD now that he's no longer starting...)

Part of the reason that we don't have depth is because we have guys who should be backups playing. Another part of that same reason is because our guys weren't going against more talented guys in practice; making themselves better. They were going against, at best, equally talented guys. This is an underrated side of things, but an important one, nonetheless. No matter the activity, the best way to improve, daily, is to test yourself against people who are better than you. We had a group of seniors leave, and then a younger group right after that, so we had a group of underclassmen who never got a chance to play against upperclassmen before they WERE the upperclassmen. I think that, next year, our offensive line will be a strength again because we only lose 1 starter and we'll have (God willing, if we keep them) a group of guys who have been playing together for __ years.

But yeah, we're "a bad program." Whatever.

Just, in the future, if you're going to stick your foot in your mouth, leave enough room to apologize around when you get proven wrong... again...

the_ouskull

[the_ouskull]

Rhino:

I only bring up the Antonn Reid thing because he was another part of that 2003 class gone bad.

Antonn's problem was he preferred skipping class and smoking weed to going to class and working out.

Allegedly.

[jk the sooner fan]

skull - i think more would take you seriously if you took the self love out of your signature ;)

[sanantoniosooner]

skull - i think more would take you seriously if you took the self love out of your signature ;)
stop being SAS.

[Octavian]

stop being SAS.

give it a rest, hall monitor.

[sanantoniosooner]

give it a rest, hall monitor.
Was I called out in the intial post?

I don't intend on setting up camp in this thread, but if you call me out, I ought to get to say something.

And it's real rich being called a hall monitor by someone hall monitoring.

[Octavian]

Was I called out in the intial post?

I don't intend on setting up camp in this thread, but if you call me out, I ought to get to say something.

And it's real rich being called a hall monitor by someone hall monitoring.

wah.

[jk the sooner fan]

i think the people crying about posts being reported would be shocked to find out who actually did report and who didnt

[OklahomaTuba]

Just, in the future, if you're going to stick your foot in your mouth, leave enough room to apologize around when you get proven wrong... again...

The irony of this made me giggle.

[dolemitesooner]

Re: Dolemite.

(And for those of you who don't like the Re: either, **** off... What's it say that, for everything you think is wrong with me, you're talking about me in a place where I can't read it...? Can I move out of my apartment and just continue to live rent-free in your dome or what?)

First of all, you really need to make sure that, if you're talking to me, you address me like an adult. Second, you may want to have someone read to you what I wrote initally, because you obviously weren't capable of doing it correctly on your own.

I said that things like letting Robert Meachem go to Tennessee hurt us, yes, but I didn't say that they are the sole reason that "our program is bad," in part because I did NOT say that "our program is bad," or anything even remotely close to that. The other part being the entire rest of what I said. If you read only one line out of a 1418 word essay, and you can't even get THAT one right, why do you even bother with these boards?

Here's the quote that you were talking about... find me the part where I mentioned Robert Meachem as being the reason for OU's "bad program."



You'd think you'd have learned your lesson from the last time you tried to talk sh*t to me...

To say that we are a fairly talented team that isn't overacheiving with what they're putting on the field isn't rude, or a sign of "a bad program." It's a fair assessment. We don't have All-World talent across the board on this team. 10 of 11 starters on D aren't going to get drafted. (I'd be suprised if more than 3 do. Reggie Smith, Rufus, and MAYBE Latimer.) We may only have 1 offensive starter get drafted... Malcom Kelly. (I'm obviously not counting AD now that he's no longer starting...)

Part of the reason that we don't have depth is because we have guys who should be backups playing. Another part of that same reason is because our guys weren't going against more talented guys in practice; making themselves better. They were going against, at best, equally talented guys. This is an underrated side of things, but an important one, nonetheless. No matter the activity, the best way to improve, daily, is to test yourself against people who are better than you. We had a group of seniors leave, and then a younger group right after that, so we had a group of underclassmen who never got a chance to play against upperclassmen before they WERE the upperclassmen. I think that, next year, our offensive line will be a strength again because we only lose 1 starter and we'll have (God willing, if we keep them) a group of guys who have been playing together for __ years.

But yeah, we're "a bad program." Whatever.

Just, in the future, if you're going to stick your foot in your mouth, leave enough room to apologize around when you get proven wrong... again...

the_ouskull
This is what I am saying jackhole. Losing what recruits we did sign is a problem yes and I argee. But to say that losing players we "could have sign is just bieng stupid and making up what ifs. I understand why we dont have depth and you are right but losing guys to other schools like Meachem has nothign to do with where we are at now.

Oh and I dont need to take my foot out of my mouth cause you didnt prove me wrong on ****.

[dolemitesooner]

And no you never said "bad" but I thought you were smart enough to understand me speaking in retard.

You did in fact say that you agreed with trent smith which was the start of your whole ramble. I for one heard what trent said and he basicly said they were "bad" ...or that he was not impressed with our talent

[StoopTroup]

i think the people crying about posts being reported would be shocked to find out who actually did report and who didnt
PM me the list.

I won't let it get out.

You have my word as a Gentleman and Silver Sponsor. :D

[the_ouskull]

Oh and I dont need to take my foot out of my mouth cause you didnt prove me wrong on ****.

And then his very next line...

And no you never said "bad" but I thought you were smart enough to understand me speaking in retard.

-- Dolemite, hard at work, doing my job for me.

And, honestly I'M not impressed with our talent either. Across the board, we're not nearly as talented as we've been during the rest of Stoops regime, for reasons which I listed. It's not like I'm not an OU fan. It's not like I'm not supportive, win, lose, or draw. (I remember OU / Texas in 84 and 95.) I'm just calling it like I'm seeing it, and, right now, I happen to agree with Trent. Anybody who doesn't think that our talent level is down, primarily due to the reasons I listed, either needs to have an excellent counter-argument, which I'd LOVE to enterain, or they need to shut the f*ck up.

As for you, Tuba... when someone on this board without a musical instrument or reference to the Pride in their nic gives a sh*t what you think, call me, k?

the_ouskull

[jk the sooner fan]

Skull=the most underrated poster in SoonerFans.com history. -- gdc, 09/20/05

the fact that you have that dated just kills me..... :)

[the_ouskull]

Well, when someone who hates Tejas as much as gdc did appreciates my "body of work," then who am I to tell him "no?" :D

...it doesn't hurt that I might be JUST arrogant enough to agree with him.

the_ouskull

[Scott D]

personally I think people are a little too obsessed with the Meachem thing....I wouldn't be surprized to see Ol Rocky Top taking a major NCAA hit within a year or two of Meachem being gone. We're likely better off without that hornet's nest.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Talent isn't the issue. Every DB we have right now probably has better measurable than Strait, Thatcher, or even an Everage. Our D-Line is ALOT better talent wise than Kory Klein or a Ryan Fisher. Our running backs are light years better talent wise than they were even 2 or 3 years ago. The offensive line has talent but unfortunately it is all VERY young talent. Do you want to know why OU lost to Texas. It comes down to very simple things. Texas's offensive line has 3(maybe 4) seniors, 3 of which are going to be first day draft picks in the NFL. Not even Dusty Dvoracek or Tommie Harris would have embarressed these guys even in their prime. They are a great o-line that has played together for a while now. This limits opportunities to seek pressure, if you put your corners on an island and blitz and don't make it(which is more likely because of great line) You now have 6'5" Limas Sweed one on one with 5"11" Wolfe, If I am Texas I take those odds and very happy. OU's o-line on the other hand got penalties, has trouble getting push because they are gelling as a group and about 80% of our line hadn't every been in an environment quite like OU/Texas. As for AD, I love him and he is one of the hardest working players I have ever seen but I honestly think the coaching staff has to alter the way they would coach if he wasn't there. We will attack more, we will be more aggressive.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

personally I think people are a little too obsessed with the Meachem thing....I wouldn't be surprized to see Ol Rocky Top taking a major NCAA hit within a year or two of Meachem being gone. We're likely better off without that hornet's nest.

Probably not, I am sure Fulmer has some Alabama indiscretions in his briefcase "Break in case of Emergency" sort of thing!

[JohnnyMack]

I think our overall talent level is part of our problem. Whether or not it's the root is certainly up for debate.

[the_ouskull]

Talent isn't the issue.

Yes, it is.

Every DB we have right now probably has better measurable than Strait, Thatcher, or even an Everage.

You're talking about two All-Americans and a bowl game MVP who was also one of the hardest hitters to ever play at OU. You're comparing D.J Wolfe to Derrick Strait...? D.J. Wolfe who can't cover ANYBODY and Strait who played in, started in, and helped win a National Championship as a true freshman.

Our D-Line is ALOT better talent wise than Kory Klein or a Ryan Fisher.

In theory, yes, but so far they're not playing like it.[b/]

Our running backs are light years better talent wise than they were even 2 or 3 years ago.

[b]With the exception of AD, not really, no. Is Allen Patrick better than Kejuan? Is Gute better than Reynaldo Works?

The offensive line has talent but unfortunately it is all VERY young talent.

Agreed, but our most talented players have still yet to hit the field, I think...

Do you want to know why OU lost to Texas. It comes down to very simple things. Texas's offensive line has 3(maybe 4) seniors, 3 of which are going to be first day draft picks in the NFL.

They have 3 seniors, a junior, and a RS-frosh. In addition, only ONE of their starting linemen will be a first day pick, and that's Blalock. Maybe 2 if Ulatoski develops well.

I think that a more telling stat is the fact that they weigh, on average, 304.8 pounds, and our defensive line weighs, on average, 275.25. Our D-Line, like I said, is getting pushed around, and likely will, due to being undersized (and under-talented) by everybody else that we face.

Not even Dusty Dvoracek or Tommie Harris would have embarressed these guys even in their prime.

Are you being serious? That's kinda funny. So now, you're forgetting facts, like Tommie and Dusty's dominance, in order to support your argument? Both Tommie and Dusty blew up a LOT better UT linemen than this group...

They are a great o-line that has played together for a while now. This limits opportunities to seek pressure, if you put your corners on an island and blitz and don't make it(which is more likely because of great line) You now have 6'5" Limas Sweed one on one with 5"11" Wolfe, If I am Texas I take those odds and very happy.

Agreed, completely. Well, at least on the Sweed/Wolfe matchup. But, they weren't throwing jump balls to him, they were letting him beat D.J. deep.

OU's o-line on the other hand got penalties, has trouble getting push because they are gelling as a group and about 80% of our line hadn't every been in an environment quite like OU/Texas. As for AD, I love him and he is one of the hardest working players I have ever seen but I honestly think the coaching staff has to alter the way they would coach if he wasn't there. We will attack more, we will be more aggressive.

I agree with you completely. I also think that, honestly, with AD out, our offense is going to have to diversify a bit. I think that, eventually, this will benefit us.

Overall, you're on the right track, but I really do feel that the difference in talent is the biggest issue. Right now, we haven't developed our upperclass talent because they're not on campus (Re: Class of 2003) and our other talent, as I stated earlier, hasn't been going against better players in practice. Our team is a perfect example of what can happen when players who are too young are forced into duty too soon... especially on a stage like OU / Tejas.

I love that all of this is provoking so much Sooner talk. I love football, and I love talking about football.

the_ouskull

[JohnnyMack]

I don't this coaching staff has done the class of '03 (or any other class since then) any favors with the way they've developed players. Go watch the Saxet game, they whipped our *** because they wanted it more. They aren't light years ahead of us in talent, they're just playing like a bunch of slobberknockin' billy-bad-asses against us recently. Kinda like we did to them for 5 years.

Skull wants to say the '03 class did us in? I'll say it's the psyche of the coaching staff which hasn't been the same since the KState game.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

I am talking measurable when i am saying talent. Wolfe is bigger, stronger, and faster than D Strait. IT is the intangible that seperate those two players. As for Texas's o-line. Blalock is the top guard on most list. Kasey Studdard is anywhere from 6 to 10 on most list I have seen at guard. Seindlin is always anywhere from 5 to 8. The way teams draft O-Line help..I would bet they are all gone pretty quick in that range.

[the_ouskull]

I don't this coaching staff has done the class of '03 (or any other class since then) any favors with the way they've developed players. Go watch the Saxet game, they whipped our *** because they wanted it more. They aren't light years ahead of us in talent, they're just playing like a bunch of slobberknockin' billy-bad-asses against us recently. Kinda like we did to them for 5 years.

Skull wants to say the '03 class did us in? I'll say it's the psyche of the coaching staff which hasn't been the same since the KState game.

Actually, I think that we're seeing things exactly the same way. First of all, it was a HUGE part of it, but the 2003 class didn't do us in singlehandedly. Just like JMack just said, "they whipped our *ss because they wanted it more." My point is, they wanted it more because our current players never had any upperclassmen leadership in practice and on the field. They were forced into action before they were ready, and they never had anybody on their *ss about taking their position, because, in a lot of those positions, we had nobody left.

And G_T_G, I understand that, based solely on physical tangibles, our guys now may be better, but that's not exactly all that's going on. Was Bob Stoops a better coach 3 years ago? Well, that's up for debate... BUT, our players were certainly better a few years ago, especially in the secondary, and the players we currently have on our team are, physically, at least, more talented. So, what is the REAL problem here? We have more-talented players playing worse than our previous, less-talented players. Once again, is this a matter of coaching or the psychological makeup of the (new) players in question? I think it's both... I don't think our defense has been the same since Mike left, and I don't think that they're 1) getting the quality of defensive coaching that he can provide, and 2) once again, getting that quality upperclass leadership in practice. Physical skills aside, THOSE are the intangibles that make the difference between good and great; for teams AND players.

the_ouskull

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Well my thing is that D.J. Wolfe is still learning. My guess is he worked on his speed this summer too much and failed to work on turning the hips and being physical at the line of scrimmage.

[proudsoonergal]

For what it's worth, I really enjoy reading these type of threads... minus the name calling/insult hurling part - although that can be amusing, too. :D

Anyway, I agree that we have not been the same defensively since the K-State game/Mike left. The thing I don't get is that we consistently seem to have a problem on our secondary, and have converted several players from another position to corner/safety (some successful, some not). Have we just whiffed big time on evaluating talent in the secondary positions? Obviously I follow OU more than other teams, but do other big time programs have our problems at finding decent corners/safeties out of HS?

[the_ouskull]

I wouldn't say that we've whiffed on evaluating talent in the secondary, so much as we haven't been able to fully develop the talent that we've gotten because of the other reasons I've listed. They've been pressed into service too early and they haven't had any upperclassman leadership. Also, once again, the depth thing becomes an attrition thing. We haven't had the flexibility of letting the guys that "aren't working out" leave.

the_ouskull

[oKOIhoma fan]

Well hell let's just cancel the season.

[Rock Hard Corn Frog]

Talent isn't the issue. Every DB we have right now probably has better measurable than Strait, Thatcher, or even an Everage. Our D-Line is ALOT better talent wise than Kory Klein or a Ryan Fisher. Our running backs are light years better talent wise than they were even 2 or 3 years ago. The offensive line has talent but unfortunately it is all VERY young talent. Do you want to know why OU lost to Texas. It comes down to very simple things. Texas's offensive line has 3(maybe 4) seniors, 3 of which are going to be first day draft picks in the NFL. Not even Dusty Dvoracek or Tommie Harris would have embarressed these guys even in their prime. They are a great o-line that has played together for a while now. This limits opportunities to seek pressure, if you put your corners on an island and blitz and don't make it(which is more likely because of great line) You now have 6'5" Limas Sweed one on one with 5"11" Wolfe, If I am Texas I take those odds and very happy. OU's o-line on the other hand got penalties, has trouble getting push because they are gelling as a group and about 80% of our line hadn't every been in an environment quite like OU/Texas. As for AD, I love him and he is one of the hardest working players I have ever seen but I honestly think the coaching staff has to alter the way they would coach if he wasn't there. We will attack more, we will be more aggressive.

I generally agree with those observations. I think it is tough to give Hook 'em their props but their O-line is senior laded and is good as they have had, possibly ever. DD and Harris would have made plays but I thought our D in general played pretty strong and has for the last 3 1/2 games.

We could play for another 50 years and not have d-backs as good as TRRW or Strait but I don't think we are in that bad of shape. This time last year Wolfe was our best CB, now he is our weakest link.

Our overall talent is probably down a little but I think we were a little spoiled for a few years how good some of our players were as underclassemen. Our O-line and receivers are still young and they will get better yet. Plus we actually may start having depth on the O-line for the first time.

Chances are good that we lose one game along the way that we wouldn't have lost (MU or A&M most likely) but every single game is still very winnable and people will be predictably suprised when we don't mail it in.

Going forward we probably need a Juco QB, we definitely need a CB and probably need a DE. I think this is similar to the situation that we were in about 81-82 and we came back strong a couple years later.

[Partial Qualifier]

Geeze, we're so spoiled.

Look. 10-2, 9-3, even 8-4 seasons happen, even at great programs like OU. We've had some incredibly bad luck the past few years but these aren't symptoms of some big internal problem. Our personnel situation is what it is, we'll overcome it. The program is not on a precipice; we're not at a crossroads.

Some great programs suck for decades, then own for a stretch (FSU, Miami) but most great programs have ebb & flow, ups & downs, etc. and we all know how much luck is involved in winning an outright MNC, even for great programs at peak strength. Be patient, support the team, ...Boomer Sooner!

[snp]

Some of us have signatures turned off for a reason.

SuperNinjaPirate

[RacerX]

Look at 2002-2004 recruting classes. That's where the junior and senior talent should be coming from for this team.

There's a lot of names there that I haven't seen in a long time.

All of these are from Rivals -
Class of 2002
Rufus Alexander (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=4771)LBhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-22154.49-Baton Rouge, LA
Noah Allen (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=59)QBhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-32094.7-Pearland, TX
Larry Birdine (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=85)DEhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-42304.7-Lawton, OK
DaBryan Blanton (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=268)ATHhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-01654.3-Forney, TX
Jason Carter (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=89)DBhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-01784.4-Jenks, OK
Wayne Chambers (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=1093)LBhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-32354.6-Grandview, MO
Abner Estrada (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=1759)OLhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-42755.2-Carrollton, TX
Micheal Hawkins (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=1931)DBhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-11704.4-Carrollton, TX
Pasha Jackson (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=3915)LBhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-32304.5-San Francisco, CA
Davin Joseph (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=741)OLhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-42904.87-Hallandale, FL
Zach Latimer (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=160)LBhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-42154.4-Aurora, CO
Jeff Lebby (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=58)OLhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-52755.1-Andrews, TX
Chris Messner (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=137)OLhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-72404.8-Frederick, OK
Aaron Miller (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=2573)DBhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-21754.4-Fresno, CA
Lance Mitchell (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=2577)LBhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-22404.6-San Francisco, CA
Laenar Nixon (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=885)TEhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-32104.6-Miami, FL
Brodney Pool (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=2912)DBhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-31934.5-Houston, TX
Jejuan Rankins (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=1509)WRhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-01754.41-Windsor, NC
Josh Roberts (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=5231)Khttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-0165--Malta, MT
J.D. Runnels (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=183)RBhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-12304.5-Midwest City, OK
Steve Taylor (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=60)OLhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-73205.1-Purcell, OK
Calvin Thibodeaux (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=2928)DEhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-12404.69-Houston, TX
Paul Thompson (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=2170)ATHhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-41954.5-Leander, TX
Travis Wilson (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=271)WRhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-32004.4-Carrollton, TX

[RacerX]

Class of 2003
Lewis Baker (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=9644)LBhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-32004.5- Lewisville, TX
Tony Cade (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=8369)DBhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-22004.43- Lewisville, TX
Tashard Choice (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=9418)RBhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-12004.45- Lovejoy, GA
Steven Coleman (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=8666)DThttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-52754.9- Dallas, TX
Lawrence Dampeer (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=7178)DThttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-52754.8- Decatur, IL
Alonzo Dotson (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=9309)DEhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-52254.6- Alief, TX
Joe Jon Finley (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=8270)ATHhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-62084.69- Arlington, TX
Cody Freeby (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=12803)Khttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-32104.8- Ft. Worth, TX
Tommy Grady (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=8659)QBhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-62154.9-Huntington Beach, CA
Jacob Gutierrez (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=15673)RBhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif5-71754.4- San Antonio, TX
Marcus Johnson (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=8325)ATHhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-11754.4- Abilene, TX
Brandon Keith (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=9917)OLhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-63205.1- McAlester, OK
Akim Millington (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=8926)OLhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-63205.25- Wheaton, IL
Donte Nicholson (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=11462)DBhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-22104.48- Walnut, CA
Carl Pendleton (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=10548)DThttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-62704.9- Sapulpa, OK
Demarrio Pleasant (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=8363)LBhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-32154.49- Lewisville, TX
Antonn Reid (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=15718)OLhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-3285-- Plano, TX
Willie Roberts (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=11436)TEhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-72404.7- Miami, OK
Tristen Ross (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=8969)WRhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-11904.5- Shreveport, LA
Courtney Tennial (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=9540)RBhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif5-102104.43- Glenpool, OK
Darien Williams (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=8586)DBhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-01904.42- Mesquite, TX
John Williams (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=11897)DEhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-52154.7- Houston, TX
Dane Zaslaw (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=8451)LBhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-22414.6- Edmond, OK
Brian Zimpel (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=9425)OLhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-53105.3- Broken Arrow, OK

[RacerX]

Class of 2004
Remi Ayodele (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=22918)DThttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-33015- Miami, OK
Corey Bennett (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=19601)DThttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-32654.95.4San Antonio, TX
Rhett Bomar (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=12541)QBhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-42054.576.1Grand Prairie, TX
Brett Bowers (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=18574)DBhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-11924.55.8Jacksonville, FL
Brandon Braxton (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=17514)OLhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-63005.16.0oungstown, OH
Quentin Chaney (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=14005)ATHhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-62054.55.7 Tulsa, OK
Alan Davis (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=18687)DEhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-22374.75.8Colleyville, TX
Garrett Hartley (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=20531)Khttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif5-9175-5.5 Southlake, TX
Lendy Holmes (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=15591)WRhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-21804.45.8Dallas, TX
Randy McAdams (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=20082)OLhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-72855.35.7 Leander, TX
Chijioke Onyenegecha (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=13836)DBhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-22004.3- San Francisco, CA
Chris Patterson (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=16741)LBhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-32204.56.1Chicago, IL
Adrian Peterson (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=14848)RBhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-22104.46.1Palestine, TX
J.D. Quinn (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=16846)OLhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-326955.6Garland, TX
Cameron Schacht (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=14092)OLhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-52604.785.5Coppell, TX
Fred Strong (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=15362)WRhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif6-31884.485.6 Austin, TX
Marcus Walker (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=15365)DBhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif5-111804.46.0Waco, TX
D.J. Wolfe (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=13692)RBhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gifhttp://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif5-111804.46.0Lawton, OK

[CU Sooner]

This talk of "they just wanted it more" is load of crap. That is the weakest comment I have ever heard. You think that sweed got by DY because he wanted it more than DJ wanted to stop him. You think DJ thought it doesn't really matter to me if he gets by me. You think our Dt's don't want to get in the backfield as much as the other line wants to keep them out? Everyone wants to win especially there match-ups. Most of the time it is a breakdown in technique or just a better play, but to say they want it more is crazy. The only time that that statement fits is if someone takes the ball away from someone else.
Then there are the comments we haven't been the same since Mike left but if I remember right he was still here when we played KSU and AZ isn't scaring to many people in pac-10. It's called cycles, the last similar to this was in the early 80's and we survived just fine and we'll be just fine now.

[Egeo]

And G_T_G, I understand that, based solely on physical tangibles, our guys now may be better, but that's not exactly all that's going on. Was Bob Stoops a better coach 3 years ago? Well, that's up for debate... BUT, our players were certainly better a few years ago, especially in the secondary, and the players we currently have on our team are, physically, at least, more talented. So, what is the REAL problem here? We have more-talented players playing worse than our previous, less-talented players. Once again, is this a matter of coaching or the psychological makeup of the (new) players in question? I think it's both... I don't think our defense has been the same since Mike left, and I don't think that they're 1) getting the quality of defensive coaching that he can provide, and 2) once again, getting that quality upperclass leadership in practice. Physical skills aside, THOSE are the intangibles that make the difference between good and great; for teams AND players.

the_ouskull

good, so you admit you're probably wrong on the talent issue
(i say probably, because it is subjective and not easily provable)

and tejas oline is arguably the best in the nation - or at least phil steele says so

[Egeo]

on those 3 lists of signing classes

their are 20+ players i know left for some reason or ive never heard of
thats crazy

[birddog]

Well my thing is that D.J. Wolfe is still learning. My guess is he worked on his speed this summer too much and failed to work on turning the hips and being physical at the line of scrimmage.

my question is why is wolfe learning a new position now? what led to his move to corner?