Do Dads matter?

[sooner n houston]

• 90% of runaway children are from fatherless homes

• 71% of high school dropouts are from fatherless homes

• 85% of youth in prison are from fatherless homes

• 90% of inmates on death row are from fatherless homes

Every societal ill from crime to drug use to teen pregnancy has a correlation with fatherlessness. So the next time you feel you don’t matter, take a look around your dining room table. Just being there is everything.

From an email I received today.

[dolemitesooner]

Yep

[Frozen Sooner]

1. Yes, dads do matter.
2. Believing statistics in an e-mail isn't always the best thing to do.
3. Correlation, even strong correlation, does not show causation. You could make a pretty convincing argument that it's not the absence of the father that causes the familial problems but that people with broken homes tend to have bad life decision skills in general and pass those poor skills on to their children.

[Scott D]

I prefer to blame republicans ;)

[sooner n houston]

I just blame Mike Rich! :D

[yermom]

Yep

Exhibit A ;)

(and B)

[Scott D]

in seriousness, I blame the fact that you can get a divorce in this country as easily as you can get a drive thru wedding in Vegas.

I blame the fact that people don't want to take any accountability for their own lives, much less the lives of their children.

[rebmus]

obviously... it's the fault of the mothers. they can't raise the kids worth a damm without a man around to keep them straight.

*sarcasm dripping...

[Frozen Sooner]

I just blame Mike Rich! :D

Seems to be a good plan for all of my ex-girlfriends.

[Scott D]

so are you saying that sooner n houston is one of your ex-girlfriends? :eek:

[sooner_born_1960]

It's not so much the absent father as the present mother that causes most of those bad things to happen.

[Frozen Sooner]

^^

That's what I'm saying.

I mean, sure, it would be much more desirable than the present situation if every child had two loving and capable parents present in their life.

The honest truth, though, is that some dads have no business being in their child's life. The honest truth is that some MOMS have no business being in their child's life. A lot of people with kids have truly bad life skills, and those life skills get taught to their children.

It's really no surprise that women who choose men who don't understand responsiblity and love end up raising kids who run away and get into drugs.

[Soonrboy]

Being a good dad matters. Being a bad dad does nothing.

[OhU1]

I suspect the stats quoted are a little high but the percentage is up there. The difference in social ills statistics between children from two parents homes and those in a single parent home are striking. I can buy causation at a fundamental level.

The child raised "by the village" doesn't generally fare too well.

[sooner n houston]

^^

That's what I'm saying.

I mean, sure, it would be much more desirable than the present situation if every child had two loving and capable parents present in their life.

The honest truth, though, is that some dads have no business being in their child's life. The honest truth is that some MOMS have no business being in their child's life. A lot of people with kids have truly bad life skills, and those life skills get taught to their children.

It's really no surprise that women who choose men who don't understand responsiblity and love end up raising kids who run away and get into drugs.


Do you people have to find the cloud in every silver lining???

DAD's ARE GOOD!!!

Thanks, rant over! :D

[mdklatt]

Fatherlessness is probably more of a symptom than a cause.

[crawfish]

Not to mention, when a dad is an involved parent:

* puberty is delayed in girls by 9-12 months
* sexual activity is delayed in girls by 2-3 years
* girls are less likely to enter (and stay) in abusive relationships
* boys are less likely to be abusive

There are far more positives than this.

IMO, the mom is typically the "protector". She protects her children from the ills of the world - shields them from harm, mental and physical, and focuses on her children's needs NOW. The typical dad is the "preparer" - he knows his kids will have to face a tough world on their own and focuses on his children's needs IN THE FUTURE, when he's not around. The mom provides security. The dad provides confidence. This is when things work right, of course.

It makes sense in the reverse as well. When a dad is bad, he tends to embitter his children and make them unable to cope with life's difficulties. When a mom is bad, she tends to make her children needy and unable to take care of themselves properly.

Not to disparage single parents - that's an incredibly tough job for anybody to do and I hope I never have to - but it's very difficult for one parent to provide both roles. It's also very difficult for a child if both parents fill the same role (one will be better at it).

A healthy society needs healthy, involved dads. No amount of political correctness is ever gonna change this fact.

[TopDaugIn2000]

my parents divorced before I was 2, and my mom raised us alone.

I turned out pretty good, and I haven't done any of those things.........yet

BUT, I do have a helluva time trusting men.

[sooner_born_1960]

Do you people have to find the cloud in every silver lining???

DAD's ARE GOOD!!!

Thanks, rant over! :D
Theoretically, yes. In practice, not so much.

[sooner_born_1960]

All I'm saying is; keeping a dad around just to have one around is no good. An involved, law-abiding, sober dad is a good thing because he servers as a role model for the children. An uninvolved, law-breaking, stoned, drunk, or high dad is better off on the streets. Or, I should say the children are better off.

[OhU1]

^^
A lot of people with kids have truly bad life skills, and those life skills get taught to their children.

It's really no surprise that women who choose men who don't understand responsiblity and love end up raising kids who run away and get into drugs.

Agree. A lot of what we see is the symptom of an underlying problem. Drug addicts are mostly people who make poor choices and have other dysfunctional behavior in their life. The drugs are a symptom not a cause of their behaviors.

[crawfish]

Fatherlessness is probably more of a symptom than a cause.

True. But encouraging fathers to be more involved is a solution.

Sure, there's gonna be bad dads. However, I've gotta think that if SOCIETY encourages men to be good husbands and good dads that the number will go down drastically.

My motto in this: Push the ideal, deal with the real.

[mdklatt]

The drugs are a symptom not a cause of their behaviors.

Unless you're Mark Foley or Mel Gibson. :rolleyes:

[Scott D]

Not to mention, when a dad is an involved parent:

* puberty is delayed in girls by 9-12 months
* sexual activity is delayed in girls by 2-3 years
* girls are less likely to enter (and stay) in abusive relationships
* boys are less likely to be abusive

There are far more positives than this.

IMO, the mom is typically the "protector". She protects her children from the ills of the world - shields them from harm, mental and physical, and focuses on her children's needs NOW. The typical dad is the "preparer" - he knows his kids will have to face a tough world on their own and focuses on his children's needs IN THE FUTURE, when he's not around. The mom provides security. The dad provides confidence. This is when things work right, of course.

It makes sense in the reverse as well. When a dad is bad, he tends to embitter his children and make them unable to cope with life's difficulties. When a mom is bad, she tends to make her children needy and unable to take care of themselves properly.

Not to disparage single parents - that's an incredibly tough job for anybody to do and I hope I never have to - but it's very difficult for one parent to provide both roles. It's also very difficult for a child if both parents fill the same role (one will be better at it).

A healthy society needs healthy, involved dads. No amount of political correctness is ever gonna change this fact.

I hereby blame crawfish for howzit's bizarre childhood.

[Mjcpr]

True. But encouraging fathers to be more involved is a solution.

Sure, there's gonna be bad dads. However, I've gotta think that if SOCIETY encourages men to be good husbands and good dads that the number will go down drastically.

My motto in this: Push the ideal, deal with the real.

You're no Johnny Cochrane.

[soonercody]

My motto in this: Push the ideal, deal with the real.

Isn't that, like, the motto of the Hustler Airbrush Studio?

[Howzit]

I hereby blame crawfish for howzit's bizarre childhood.

The childhood was pretty normal...it's sometime in adulthood that things went very, very wrong.

[Scott D]

The childhood was pretty normal...it's sometime in adulthood that things went very, very wrong.

somewhere in there the influence of crawfish was sure to be apparent. :)

[Ike]

My questions are:
a)How does this compare to the same stats for single parent homes...not just fatherless ones, but motherless homes as well. In other words, is it really the father that matters, or having two parents that matter?

2) is there correlation between these stats and the number of hours any parent (both in one and 2 parent households) spend with their children per week/month/year? I reckon there is. Is there a correlation between the number of children in a household?

3) how strongly do these statistics correlate to income?

[SoonerJack]

Not to mention, when a dad is an involved parent:

* puberty is delayed in girls by 9-12 months
* sexual activity is delayed in girls by 2-3 years
* girls are less likely to enter (and stay) in abusive relationships
* boys are less likely to be abusive

There are far more positives than this.

IMO, the mom is typically the "protector". She protects her children from the ills of the world - shields them from harm, mental and physical, and focuses on her children's needs NOW. The typical dad is the "preparer" - he knows his kids will have to face a tough world on their own and focuses on his children's needs IN THE FUTURE, when he's not around. The mom provides security. The dad provides confidence. This is when things work right, of course.

It makes sense in the reverse as well. When a dad is bad, he tends to embitter his children and make them unable to cope with life's difficulties. When a mom is bad, she tends to make her children needy and unable to take care of themselves properly.

Not to disparage single parents - that's an incredibly tough job for anybody to do and I hope I never have to - but it's very difficult for one parent to provide both roles. It's also very difficult for a child if both parents fill the same role (one will be better at it).

A healthy society needs healthy, involved dads. No amount of political correctness is ever gonna change this fact.

This is quite possibly one of the wisest collections of thought I have seen recently. Well said, Crawfish.

[crawfish]

somewhere in there the influence of crawfish was sure to be apparent. :)

Hey, now. Any weirdness of mine that could POSSIBLY influence anybody in a negative way would make a difference to howzit in the same way tossing a big mac in the ocean would affect a tsunami.

[sooner_born_1960]

Hey, now. Any weirdness of mine that could POSSIBLY influence anybody in a negative way would make a difference to howzit in the same way tossing a big mac in the ocean would affect a tsunami.
I'm not very good at these A is to B as C is to ... games. Are you saying you do or do not make a difference?

[sooner_born_1960]

and, do tsunamis even eat meat?

[crawfish]

My questions are:
a)How does this compare to the same stats for single parent homes...not just fatherless ones, but motherless homes as well. In other words, is it really the father that matters, or having two parents that matter?

2) is there correlation between these stats and the number of hours any parent (both in one and 2 parent households) spend with their children per week/month/year? I reckon there is. Is there a correlation between the number of children in a household?

3) how strongly do these statistics correlate to income?

1) I've seen statistics on this. The effects of not having a mother/father are both significant but different in nature. Can't for the life of my remember any details, though.

2) Unsure of this.

3) Income does not affect the statistics much at all, from the studies I've heard. The biggest problem is that poorer families tend to split apart at a higher rate, but once the dad is gone, the effects are pretty much the same.

[crawfish]

I'm not very good at these A is to B as C is to ... games. Are you saying you do or do not make a difference?

I thought "Big Mac" was more specific - and slightly funnier - than "a rock".

The funnier part should probably be viewed in relative terms.

[sooner_born_1960]

I think throwing the rock at Howzit would be funner.

[Ike]

1) I've seen statistics on this. The effects of not having a mother/father are both significant but different in nature. Can't for the life of my remember any details, though.

2) Unsure of this.

3) Income does not affect the statistics much at all, from the studies I've heard. The biggest problem is that poorer families tend to split apart at a higher rate, but once the dad is gone, the effects are pretty much the same.


So I also wonder...especially for the poorer familes, how strongly the likelihood of a kid going bad correlates to the number of hours the single parent has to work to make ends meet. I imagine in these cases that single mom (or dad) often has to take a second job just to keep up the rent, and I also imagine that this has a devastating effect on the raising of kids.

[crawfish]

So I also wonder...especially for the poorer familes, how strongly the likelihood of a kid going bad correlates to the number of hours the single parent has to work to make ends meet. I imagine in these cases that single mom (or dad) often has to take a second job just to keep up the rent, and I also imagine that this has a devastating effect on the raising of kids.

I see where you're going with this, and to a point, I agree. However, I think a big part of what a dad does - in fact, what a mom does as well - is model proper behavior to their kids. A girl with an essentially good dad will use that as a model for relationships in the world, and will be less likely to accept an abusive/negative man in their life because they expect better. A girl without a positive role model will be more likely to stick around in a bad relationship because she doesn't. Boys also learn how to treat women from their dads - if their dad loves and respects his wife, they will expect that of themselves. As much as a man might want to be in a good relationship, if he has never seen a positive male-female relationship it'll be difficult for him to know how to foster one.

Absent fathers are a huge problem in our country, IMO. It's a problem that will have to be fixed before our society can start to become healthy again.

[SoonerInKCMO]

You're no Johnny Cochrane.

I thought it sounded like Jesse Jackson.

"Push the ideal. Deal with the real."
"Up with hope. Down with dope."

[12]

There are times (thanks to work) my daughter goes to bed without stories being read by her dad. In 9 years, I can count less than 30 nights. It doesn't sound like a big deal, but it is to me. I realize that at 9, she is perfectly able to read to herself, or watch tv until she falls asleep. But that is OUR time together, and I hold it dear. After the chapter, (or book, poem, etc.) we talk about stuff that happened during the day. She asks me about stuff that happened when I was her age and I tell her stories. It always ends with a standard, "You're my favorite daughter" and "You're my favorite papa" and a night-night kiss on the forehead.

If it doesn't matter, I don't want to know. Those moments are the best of my day.

My boy and I are more about being funny and wrasslin' together.

[Ike]

I see where you're going with this, and to a point, I agree. However, I think a big part of what a dad does - in fact, what a mom does as well - is model proper behavior to their kids. A girl with an essentially good dad will use that as a model for relationships in the world, and will be less likely to accept an abusive/negative man in their life because they expect better. A girl without a positive role model will be more likely to stick around in a bad relationship because she doesn't. Boys also learn how to treat women from their dads - if their dad loves and respects his wife, they will expect that of themselves. As much as a man might want to be in a good relationship, if he has never seen a positive male-female relationship it'll be difficult for him to know how to foster one.

Absent fathers are a huge problem in our country, IMO. It's a problem that will have to be fixed before our society can start to become healthy again.

Im not saying I don't agree with you...just that in order to fully understand the effects of not having a father (or mother) on a child, I think we need way more information than what has been given so far. While I do think encouraging men to be better fathers is a value our society should push, I also think there is another facet we should explore (at the very least, collect some data on anyway...) and that is to look at what we can do to ensure that working moms and dads (both married and unmarried...together and split) can manage to both put food on the table (and have a table to put food on), and at the same time have the free time available to actually be role models for their kids. Now, I'll be the first to admit that I don't have any great solutions that do this...yet. However, for the unskilled single mom, theres no way a minimum wage job can allow her to do this. In some cities, theres no way 2 full time minimum wage jobs can allow her to do this either. That much I do know.

I don't know if there is any fix on the economic side for that, but I think its something that should be seriously looked into. I don't want to see handouts to solve this...just something that makes it a little easier for the working poor to raise a good family. Just a little.

[12]

Oh, and my wife is an incredible mom. The best I could have possibly wished for my kids to have.

[crawfish]

I thought it sounded like Jesse Jackson.

"Push the ideal. Deal with the real."
"Up with hope. Down with dope."

Mottos are better if they're catchy. ;)


I got the saying from one of my preacher's clever sermons. :O

[crawfish]

Im not saying I don't agree with you...just that in order to fully understand the effects of not having a father (or mother) on a child, I think we need way more information than what has been given so far. While I do think encouraging men to be better fathers is a value our society should push, I also think there is another facet we should explore (at the very least, collect some data on anyway...) and that is to look at what we can do to ensure that working moms and dads (both married and unmarried...together and split) can manage to both put food on the table (and have a table to put food on), and at the same time have the free time available to actually be role models for their kids. Now, I'll be the first to admit that I don't have any great solutions that do this...yet. However, for the unskilled single mom, theres no way a minimum wage job can allow her to do this. In some cities, theres no way 2 full time minimum wage jobs can allow her to do this either. That much I do know.

I don't know if there is any fix on the economic side for that, but I think its something that should be seriously looked into. I don't want to see handouts to solve this...just something that makes it a little easier for the working poor to raise a good family. Just a little.

Yeah, I'm not about solutions, either. ;) :D

[sooner n houston]

A little data from wikipedia. :D


Statistically, children in single parent homes fare worse than those with two parents. In the United States, family structure contributes to five characteristics of a child’s well being. These include lower birthrates and higher death rates among infants when there is just one parent. Also, the number of children ages 15-17 in school and in good health is much lower from single parent families than from two parent ones. The number of children from single parent families becoming pregnant at these ages is increasing.

There are also signs that children who have gone through a divorce have problems in school, depression, and emotional stress. Problems like this however may not be because of the parent who raised them, but can be linked to other things that are also related to single parenting. Being a single parent and struggling for money often coincide, the consensus of research now suggests that family structure itself is the more significant variable. Financial difficulties are behind many family problems. The effects of coming from a low-income family can include lower education levels, lower economic achievement, isolation, and loneliness.

Single parent homes are also associated with criminal activity in the U.S.A. Children from a single-parent household account for 72% of teenage murderers, 60% percent of people who commit rape crimes and are eleven times more likely to exhibit violent behavior. Reasons for this have to do with the fact that these children are generally less supervised, their actions are less monitored and there is usually less communication between the child and parent, and that most likely they come from poor families (although the effect remains strong even controlling for income).

Most researchers have found that children from single parent homes tend to do worse in school than children in two parent homes, and that concentrations of young people from one parent households produce unfavorable school environments. For example, Suet-ling Pong found that students from single parent homes showed lower scores on mathematics and reading achievement tests. She also found that high concentrations in schools of students from single parent families were associated with lower achievement results for all students. Similarly, Carl L. Bankston III and Stephen J. Caldas found that high percentages of pupils from one parent families were closely connected to poor academic achievement for all students. Bankston and Caldas also found that many of the academic disadvantages of schools with large percentages of African American students could be explained by the predominance of young people from one parent families in these schools.[3] However, researchers generally stress that family structure is only one of many influences on academic performance.

[edit]
Single motherhood
Single motherhood is by far the most common instance of single parenting; in the U.S.A single mothers outnumber single fathers four to one. Single mothers may have a hard time providing for their families. Some studies conclude that women generally have lower paying jobs (though other studies have found that the wage gap, or Income disparity, is largely due to choice, not discrimination).

Thus, single mothers must contend with both financial and child rearing burdens. If a parent makes less money, and thus has to work longer hours, she has less time for her child. Numerous studies have suggested that children raised by a single mother are more likely to use drugs at an early age and to get in trouble with the law. Half of all single mothers live in poverty as opposed to just 15% of single fathers.

[edit]
Single fatherhood
In the U.S., fathers make up about 20% of single parents. The role of fathers, married or single, has been changing. Today, fathers are more likely to help children in a classroom setting and do household chores than in the past. Historically, fathers were not socialized to be primary caregivers, although many men did raise children on their own due to high rates of maternal death.

Single fathers act as positive role models to children. There are no factual studies that indicate that fathers are less capable of raising children than women are. Also, no factual studies show that children raised by men are more likely to use drugs or engage in sex at an earlier age.

Female children living in a single father home are less likely to reach menarche at an earlier age than those living in two parent homes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_parent

[jk the sooner fan]

while i think having a dad in the home is most important....you CAN be a good dad and not be in the home........being involved is the key, and either parent can screw up a kid

[sooner n houston]

For some really good research results, from England, go here: http://www.kn.sbc.com/wired/fil/pages/websinglepja.html

[sooner n houston]

Non-resident biological fathers

Are at risk of losing contact with their children

Twenty to thirty percent of non-resident fathers have not seen their children in the last year. Another 20%–40% see their children less than once per week.

Are more likely to have health problems and engage in high-risk behaviour

Divorced men aged 20 to 60 have 70%–100% higher rates of death than married men.

In a population of young adults, divorced men and women were twice as likely to increase their drinking compared to those who remained married. In this case, there was virtually no selection effect. In other words, heavy drinking did not lead to divorce. Rather, divorce led to heavy drinking.

Divorced non-residential fathers were significantly more likely to smoke marijuana and to drive a car after drinking alcohol.

Divorced men reported the highest rates of unsafe sex, with 15.7% reporting both multiple partners and lack of condom use in the previous year, compared with 3% of married men, 10.4% of cohabiting men, and 9.6% of single men.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Children living without their biological fathers

Are more likely to live in poverty and deprivation

Children living in lone-parent households are twice as likely to be in the bottom 40% of household income distribution compared with children living in two-parent households (75% versus 40%).

Even after controlling for low incomes, children growing up with never-married lone mothers are especially disadvantaged according to standard scales of deprivation.

After controlling for other demographic factors, children in lone-parent households are still 2.8 times as likely to forego family outings.

Are more likely to have emotional or mental problems

After controlling for other demographic factors, children in lone-parent households are 2.5 times as likely to be sometimes or often unhappy. They are 3.3 times as likely to score poorly on measures of self-esteem.

Among children aged five to fifteen years in Great Britain, those from lone-parent families were twice as likely to have a mental health problem as those from intact two-parent families (16% versus 8%).

A major longitudinal study of 1,400 American families found that 20%–25% of children of divorce showed lasting signs of depression, impulsivity (risk-taking), irresponsibility, or antisocial behaviour compared with 10% of children in intact two-parent families.

Have more trouble in school

Children from lone-parent families are more likely to score poorly on tests of reading, mathematics, and thinking skills.

After controlling for other demographic factors, children from lone-parent households were
3.3 times more likely to report problems with their academic work, and
50% more likely to report difficulties with teachers.

Tend to have more trouble getting along with others

After controlling for other demographic factors, children from lone-parent households are three times as likely to report problems with friendships.

Children from lone-parent households are more likely to have behaviour problems or engage in antisocial behaviour.

Boys from lone-parent households are more likely to show hostility to adults and other children, and be destructive of belongings.

Have higher risk of health problems

It has been estimated that parental divorce increases children’s risk of developing health problems by 50%.

In England and Wales during 2000, the sudden infant death rate for babies jointly registered by unmarried parents living at different addresses was over three times greater than for babies born to a married mother and father (0.66 per 1,000 live births as compared with 0.18). Where the birth was registered in the sole name of the mother, the rate of sudden infant death was seven times greater than for those born within marriage (1.27 per 1,000 live births as compared with 0.18).

After controlling for other demographic factors, children living in lone-parent households were 1.8 times as likely to have psychosomatic health symptoms and illness such as pains, headaches, stomach aches, and feeling sick.

Are at greater risk of suffering physical, emotional, or sexual abuse.

According to data from the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children (NSPCC), young people are five times more likely to have experienced physical abuse and emotional maltreatment if they grew up in a lone-parent family, compared with children in two-birth-parent families.5

All studies of child-abuse victims which look at family type identify the step-family as representing the highest risk to children
– with the risk of fatal abuse being 100 times higher than in twobiological- parent families according to international from 1976.

However, the use of the term step-father has become problematic, as, whilst it used to refer to men who were married to women with children by other men, it is now used to describe any man in the household, whether married to the mother or not. An NSPCC study of 1988 which separated married step-fathers from unmarried cohabiting men found that married step-fathers were less likely to abuse: ‘for nonnatal fathers marriage appears to be associated with a greater commitment to the father role’.

Analysis of 35 cases of fatal abuse which were the subject of public inquiries between 1968 and 1987 showed a risk for children living with their mother and an unrelated man which was over 70 times higher than it would have been for a child with two married biological parents.

Are more likely to run away from home

Children from lone-parent families are twice as likely to run away from home as those from two-birth-parent families (14% compared to 7%).

http://www.civitas.org.uk/pubs/experiments.php

[rebmus]

"Divorced men aged 20 to 60 have 70%–100% higher rates of death than married men."

yeah... but the married men are much more willing to die.

[jk the sooner fan]

just proof there are no absolutes

[royalfan5]

In my experince not having a dad really sucks. I never knew my dad since he died when he was 6 months old, however I was lucky for the most part because I had a very good extended family that helped a lot. However, there is still a huge void that I have had to deal with because of that absecense though.

[jk the sooner fan]

i didnt meet my real mother till i was 19 years old

[Hot Rod]

Royalfan,

I didn't have much of a dad growing up as well. My parents divorced early and he was always on the road. Now that I have a family of my own, I'm trying to fill in the gap and do the things that I wish I could've done with him, while trying to be a good father to my boys. It's hard because I can't relive my childhood, but I always assure my kids that they will know that I gave them my best as a dad.

I did the same with my extended family as well. Wish you the best bro!

[Melo]

Hey think about it this way... my dad has always been around, and I turned out just fine... ;)

[BoogercountySooner]

Oh, and my wife is an incredible mom. The best I could have possibly wished for my kids to have.

This post means nothing without pic's!:D :D