Apparently we missed a few rule changes...

[handcrafted]

The NCAA needs to do a better job of publicizing its rule changes. After reviewing the RRS, here's what I noticed:

1. The ground can cause a fumble.

2. It's illegal for a TE to block a LB.

3. Forward passes which are dropped are fumbles.

4. Backward passes which are dropped can be recovered and advanced by the opposing team.

5. It's legal for the defense to yell out fake snap counts and draw the O-line into a false start.

6. Receivers wearing some variety of orange are allowed to push off defenders during pass routes.

7. Instant replay equipment is being downsized to save money. This year, it's one 80 year old guy with a hand-crank movie camera taking the film out and holding it up to the light.

You'd think they would have told somebody.

[dougsooner]

GREAT POST!

[sooner518]

hehe although Im pretty sure you can advance a backwards lateral. it is a fumble after all. but everything else, well played

I hadnt heard of the UT lineman calling out our snap counts before today. Anyone have any quotes on that?

[RacerX]

It's interesting how pretty much only the guards were affected by the defense calling snap counts

.:rolleyes:

[usmc-sooner]

It's interesting how pretty much only the guards were affected by the defense calling snap counts

.:rolleyes:

or the fact that they've jumped offsides consistantly every game before the Texas game.

[handcrafted]

hehe although Im pretty sure you can advance a backwards lateral. it is a fumble after all. but everything else, well played

I hadnt heard of the UT lineman calling out our snap counts before today. Anyone have any quotes on that?

No linkage, but James Hale on the SA this morning said that Coach had been climbing the refs azz about it during the game, and mentioned something in the post-game press conference. Anyone with linkage please post it.

[NUSooner]

I'm just posting this here because it's convenient...not directed toward any opinions, just all of them I've read:

I believe that we are getting soft as fans. Remember "No excuses"? I do, and I remember when Sooner fans took pride in not having any excuses about losses. Noone made excuses in '99 when we gave up the lead in every game we lost. Noone was making excuses in '01 when we lost to OSU in a devistating game. But times have changed. Yeah, I'll give a free pass for the Oregon game because that was outrageous circumstances. But we've seen the past two years have excuse after excuse out of our fans.

We flat out lost on Saturday, it was embarrassing, but we made mistakes which let it occur in addition to whatever the refs did. Let's just suck it up and have no excuses.

[Tear Down This Wall]

It was only two seasons ago that we were lambasting Texas fans for their "Texscuses." I even seem to recall a T-shirt.

Well, so here we are in the year 2006. Instead of looking at our own on and off the field shortcomings (dismissing offensive linemen and punters when they cross the strength and conditioning coach, not being able to punch the ball in on 1st and goal from the 2 and 3 yard line versus Oregon, not being able to hold second half leads versus Texas and Oregon due to poor coverage by tailbacks and safeties masquerading as corners), we blame referees.

Pathetic.

[BHud]

When did the ground cause a fumble? PEterson put the ball on the ground, and as his knee never touched, it was a fumble. Period.You would have had a fi if he had been caleld down there, had he reversed field and scored.

Backward passes which are dropped have been able to be advanced since the creation of the forward pass. This is not news to most.

The rest of this post sounds like a T-Shirt you boys made a few years ago. "Ex-stoops-es, ex-stoops-es."

[handcrafted]

Okay, I retract No. 4. I was thinking of NFL rules.

Unlike a forward pass, if a lateral hits the ground or an official, play continues. Like a fumble, a backward pass that has hit the ground may be recovered by either side. In NFL rules a backward pass other than the snap, if muffed by a receiver before it first touches the ground, after it touches the ground the ball becomes dead if an opponent recovers it.

[handcrafted]

When did the ground cause a fumble? PEterson put the ball on the ground, and as his knee never touched, it was a fumble. Period.You would have had a fi if he had been caleld down there, had he reversed field and scored.

His arm, with the ball, touched the ground as he was falling. He was down. Ball came out after. Refs call it that way all the farging time when a guy is trying to get to the end zone and tries to reach the ball over the line.


Backward passes which are dropped have been able to be advanced since the creation of the forward pass. This is not news to most.

See my post above.


The rest of this post sounds like a T-Shirt you boys made a few years ago. "Ex-stoops-es, ex-stoops-es."

I stated nothing about the terrible officiating costing us the game. It cost us the Tech game last year, and the Oregon game this year, but not the RRS. I merely point out a disturbing pattern of stuff not being called right.

[mikeb]

When did the ground cause a fumble? PEterson put the ball on the ground, and as his knee never touched, it was a fumble. Period.You would have had a fi if he had been caleld down there, had he reversed field and scored.

Backward passes which are dropped have been able to be advanced since the creation of the forward pass. This is not news to most.

The rest of this post sounds like a T-Shirt you boys made a few years ago. "Ex-stoops-es, ex-stoops-es."
It was not a fumble and had he reversed field and scored it would had been called down. PERIOD. It really doesnt matter if you can advance a backwards pass since the one in question was a forward one. And I am waiting for you to come up with something on our mysterious pass interference call. Oh yeah Sweed did not push off either right? All of which were tremendous momentum killers. Had this BS not been called you and all your horn pukess would be the ones making excuses, and you know it.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Dear fellow OU fans,
It was a fumble. Get over it.

Sincerely,
Tear Down This Wall

P.S. - It was a fumble. Get over it.

[handcrafted]

Okay, look. Somebody post a screenshot of the play. If it shows AD's hand and nothing else touching the ground, then TDTW is right and we are wrong.

I watched all the replays and what I saw was his forearm hitting the ground.

[Tear Down This Wall]

It's really, really sad. Really.

Maybe you guys can get David Boren to write another letter.

[usmc-sooner]

the refs did not lose the game for us. I can live with those calls, it's the Oregon and Tech calls that really boil my blood.

[handcrafted]

You know what? You're right.

Who cares if the rules are followed? Who cares if the officials can call a game right? As long as everybody has fun, what do rules matter? Hell, we should just script the games anyway to make them as exciting and unpredictable as possible.

Welcome to the NCWWF.

[usmc-sooner]

to be honest, I recorded the game and I thought it was a fumble, I thought the pass to AD could have went either way. OU's only arguement was that AD's hand touched the ball beyond the 12 and AD himself said he couldn't remember if he touched it or not.

The only call I thought that was bad was the PI on Joe Jon.

[Frozen Sooner]

handcrafted, I defy you to look through the NCAA rulebook and find anywhere it states that the ground cannot cause a fumble.

A fumble cannot occur once a player is down. Down is when part of the body other than the hand or foot touches the ground. AD put his hand down for balance, and you wouldn't be complaining about him not being ruled down had he recovered his balance and run for a score.

As already pointed out, #4 has always been a rule and has been since they changed incomplete passes from being turnovers.

Five is legal. It's bush for your team to be fazed by it. High school teams do it all the time, and it's the last place it should work.

[Frozen Sooner]

to be honest, I recorded the game and I thought it was a fumble, I thought the pass to AD could have went either way. OU's only arguement was that AD's hand touched the ball beyond the 12 and AD himself said he couldn't remember if he touched it or not.

The only call I thought that was bad was the PI on Joe Jon.

Yep. The OPI on Joe Jon was a bad call. I can't think of any other call in the game even remotely worth complaining about.

The pushoff on DJ was pretty weak and shouldn't have been called.

[IronSooner]

I hate agreeing with TDTW, but seriously, we need to quit bitching about the refs. I have yet to see someone come up with a cogent argument for why we deserved to win this game in the first place. If you turn the ball over 5 times, consistently jump offsides on either side of the line, and give up 5 yards on a QB sneak, you will lose. Period.

We've made fun of UT for years for making up excuses, griping about the refs, leaving the game early, etc. Can we please not do this, take our lumps and move on?

[TexasLidig8r]

http://mb22.scout.com/fouinsiderfrm4.showMessage?topicID=479.topic

http://www.soonerfans.com/shopping/store/images/texcuses2004back.jpg

[BHud]

Texas outphysicalled you guys. Period. Any glance over to the sidelines in the 4th quarter was evidence of this, even to the most novice of football fans.



It was not a fumble and had he reversed field and scored it would had been called down. PERIOD. It really doesnt matter if you can advance a backwards pass since the one in question was a forward one. And I am waiting for you to come up with something on our mysterious pass interference call. Oh yeah Sweed did not push off either right? All of which were tremendous momentum killers. Had this BS not been called you and all your horn pukess would be the ones making excuses, and you know it.

[Scott D]

it was a fumble...quit making excuses.

Be ****ed about the calls at the end of the Tech game, be ****ed about the travesty at the end of the Oregon game. But quit with the whole little brother syndrome.

[crimson&cream]

hehe although Im pretty sure you can advance a backwards lateral. it is a fumble after all. but everything else, well played

I hadnt heard of the UT lineman calling out our snap counts before today. Anyone have any quotes on that?
Merv Johnson on the radio-I listen to even Bob Berry rather than the obvious biased TV game commentators-and he kept talking about "their LB yells out defensive changes in a manner thats really illegal according to NCAA rules. Thats why our OL are jumping in motion"

[crimson&cream]

When did the ground cause a fumble? PEterson put the ball on the ground, and as his knee never touched, it was a fumble. Period.You would have had a fi if he had been caleld down there, had he reversed field and scored.

Backward passes which are dropped have been able to be advanced since the creation of the forward pass. This is not news to most.

The rest of this post sounds like a T-Shirt you boys made a few years ago. "Ex-stoops-es, ex-stoops-es."
As AD put his hand down to brace himself hitting the ground the ball was in that hand and as ball in hand hit the ground it came out according the video I saw, ground can't cause a fumble.
As for the backward pass AD never caught ball as he barely touched it with his had at the 11 1/2 yd line the ball deflected backwards a bit and Paul was standing on the 12 1/2 yd line when he threw it again according to the video I saw.
That being he case both were wrong calls by the refs, however neither of those plays cost the game. it was combination of poor pass coverage on 2 TD passes for Texass, fumbles lost like Jacquin on the Texass 15 yd line, the tripping of AD by Paul on 3rd and 2 in Texass end of the field, and and couple of barely high passes by Paul over wide open reciever's and the motion penalities that put you behind the chains.

[Big Red Ron]

Texas outphysicalled you guys. PeriodThis is pure BS.

I was at the game and it was clear that ut's "superior" lines were being manhandled by our young linemen.

AD was getting 4-5 yards a clip.

It was turnovers folks pure and simple. You cannot turn the ball over FIVE times and win very often.

[GregJackP]

It was turnovers folks pure and simple. You cannot turn the ball over FIVE times and win very often.

Ditto

[usmc-sooner]

Merv Johnson on the radio-I listen to even Bob Berry rather than the obvious biased TV game commentators-and he kept talking about "their LB yells out defensive changes in a manner thats really illegal according to NCAA rules. Thats why our OL are jumping in motion"

so why is it that they jump offsides in every game. Does everyone do this?
Duke Robinson and Messner each do this at least once every game.

[Frozen Sooner]

As AD put his hand down to brace himself hitting the ground the ball was in that hand and as ball in hand hit the ground it came out according the video I saw, ground can't cause a fumble.

No matter how many times we say this it's still not true. This is NOT an NCAA rule and under NCAA rules it was a clear fumble.

Repeat as many times as necessary:

The ground CAN cause a fumble under NCAA rules.


Here's the NCAA rules on fumbles, by the way, straight out of the NCAA rulebook:

Fumble
ARTICLE 1. A fumble is any act other than passing, kicking or successful
handing that results in loss of player possession (A.R. 2-19-2-I, A.R. 4-1-3-I
and A.R. 7-2-2-I).

Ball Declared Dead
b. When any part of the runner’s body, except his hand or foot, touches
the ground or when the runner is tackled or otherwise falls and loses
possession of the ball as he contacts the ground with any part of his
body, except his hand or foot. (Exception: The ball remains alive when
an offensive player has simulated a kick or is in position to kick the ball
held for a place kick by a teammate. The ball may be kicked, passed or
advanced by rule) (A.R. 4-1-3-I).

So yeah, as you can see-this specific situation is addressed by rule and it is a fumble.

[JohnnyMack]

It was a fumble. I think the ball went off Joe Jon's heel as a matter of fact. Someone who has it recorded watch it and see.

[Frozen Sooner]

I think the misconception comes in because generally if the ball comes out when it hits the ground it was either an incomplete pass or the runner was down.

[GrapevineSooner]

I propose a rule here on SF.com.

You may only complain about an official's call for up to 24 hours after the game ends. Once that 24-hour window closes, it's time to move on.

We lost the game not because of the forward pass that was called a lateral, the OPI on Finley, or because Limas Sweed may or may have not pushed off.

We lost because we committed numerous false start penalties with a few other kinds here and there mixed in for good measure.

We also lost because Texas made big plays on third down (all of their offensive TD's came on third down). We had a third down at Texas' end of the field at the end of the half with the score tied 7-7. Instead of marching it in for a decisive TD to end the half, we had to settle for a FG because AD and PT's legs got tangled up and AD fell down.

That's your ballgame. Time to look forward to a very game Iowa State team next Saturday.

[Big Red Ron]

I propose a rule here on SF.com.

You may only complain about an official's call for up to 24 hours after the game ends. Once that 24-hour window closes, it's time to move on.

Yeah, but what about those of us that have lives that do not include a daily dose of SoonerFans.com?;)

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Dear fellow OU fans,
It was a fumble. Get over it.

Sincerely,
Tear Down This Wall

P.S. - It was a fumble. Get over it.Dear TDTW, please stick with politics.

[Ruuuuuufus]

Five is legal. It's bush for your team to be fazed by it. High school teams do it all the time, and it's the last place it should work.

No, it's not legal.

[jwlynn64]

Five is legal. It's bush for your team to be fazed by it. High school teams do it all the time, and it's the last place it should work.

Don't know what planet you live on but it is considered unsportsman like conduct to yell out snap counts. It's bush league to resolt to those tactics to try and win a game, not the other way around.

[Partial Qualifier]

I propose a rule here on SF.com.

You may only complain about an official's call for up to 24 hours after the game ends. Once that 24-hour window closes, it's time to move on.

We lost the game not because of the forward pass that was called a lateral, the OPI on Finley, or because Limas Sweed may or may have not pushed off.

We lost because we committed numerous false start penalties with a few other kinds here and there mixed in for good measure.

We also lost because Texas made big plays on third down (all of their offensive TD's came on third down). We had a third down at Texas' end of the field at the end of the half with the score tied 7-7. Instead of marching it in for a decisive TD to end the half, we had to settle for a FG because AD and PT's legs got tangled up and AD fell down.

That's your ballgame. Time to look forward to a very game Iowa State team next Saturday.

I agree with all that, but would include "bumping whiney threads" to the 24 hr. rule.

And can we get rid of these freaking longhorn emoticons? Sheesh.

[Scott D]

handcrafted forgot rule 8 which is apparently, everything is going to be designed to be against Oklahoma in an effort to make them lose as many games as possible, and put their fanbase on a suicide watch.

little brother syndrome gets old people.

[1stTimeCaller]

I hope, for the South Oval's sake, that Handcrafted is better at interpreting the Bible than he is the NCAA rulebook.

[flopshotjoe99]

you can't afford the stupid mental mistakes by the o-line & 5 turnovers & still expect a W. Sucks that we lost, it's time to get past that & finish 10-2.

[handcrafted]

I hope, for the South Oval's sake, that Handcrafted is better at interpreting the Bible than he is the NCAA rulebook.

Don't you have someplace to pee?