Do ***any*** reviewable calls go our way?

[BoonesFarmSooner]

You have to have substantial evidence to overturn a play, when was the last close call in our favor? It's been Tech, Oregon, and now Texas....


The Big 12 officiating is absolutely horrible and Stoops was beyond ****ed the entire game.

Sweed pushed off on DJ more than Finley did on that play that got called back.

[birddog]

no.

[soonerthanu]

Conspiracy. You call out the replay guy and your a marked man.

[reevie]

That called touchdown catch that wasn't in Lubbock last year.

[GrapevineSooner]

The AD fumble looked like a fumble by virtue of the fact that neither his knee or elbow hit the ground before he lost the ball.

The Iglesias fumble could have gone either way. Unfortunately, it didn't go our way. Just wasn't enough evidence to overturn it.

The forward pass that was ruled a backwards lateral, though, was completely laughable. And I wonder if on plays like that one the refs just assume 'let's let the play run it's course and if we got it wrong, replay will correct our mistake.'

Obviously, replay proves it's incapable of doing that.

So it needs to go.

[SoonerBorn68]

I wonder if it's going to be this way the whole season. I'm not saying we'd have won the game today but:

A forward pass deemed a lateral
A fumble the ground caused
A phantom PI call

I'm glad to see the ABC guys take a stand and basically say the officials made the wrong call. There's a definately monkeys (officials) on our backs.

I wonder when Stoops finally has enough. Will he say F it and leave for the NFL or come out with both barrels and call out the NCAA to fire officials that blow calls?

[BermudaSooner]

The AD fumble looked like a fumble by virtue of the fact that neither his knee or elbow hit the ground before he lost the ball.



The ball came out when it hit the ground. Since when is that a fumble?

[BoonesFarmSooner]

That called touchdown catch that wasn't in Lubbock last year.


I'm not asking if any have been overturned. I'm asking if any "close" calls go our way.


This pretty much makes my point.... Anything close lately has gone against us.


I agree with SoonerBorn68, Stoops looks incredibly frustrated with the incompetance on the field by the zebras...

[GrapevineSooner]

His hand hit the ground, first. Then the ball came out.

Because you're only down when your knee, elbow, or shoulder hits the ground, this was a fumble because he was not down, yet.

Notice nobody on the OU sideline argued about that call.

[oufan1]

That called touchdown catch that wasn't in Lubbock last year.
Speaking of Lubbock Traber said this was the same crew as that game

[BermudaSooner]

His hand hit the ground, first. Then the ball came out.

Because you're only down when your knee, elbow, or shoulder hits the ground, this was a fumble because he was not down, yet.

Notice nobody on the OU sideline argued about that call.

The hand with the ball, or his other hand? I agree his knee, elbow, or shoulder wasn't down. You are arguing, for example, that if a player dove with the ball, and then as his hands and ball hits the ground and the ball comes out, then it is a fumble.

OU sideline didn't argue because it was across the field, I believe.

[crawfish]

His hand hit the ground, first. Then the ball came out.

Because you're only down when your knee, elbow, or shoulder hits the ground, this was a fumble because he was not down, yet.

Notice nobody on the OU sideline argued about that call.

Why have I seen that call go the other way for years? I've seen a guy dive holding the ball with both hands, the ball pops up when it hits the ground BEFORE any other part of his body touches ground, yet they say "the ground can't cause a fumble". I've also seen a lateral pass like that be called incomplete.

I'm not saying it was the wrong call...I'm just saying for years I've seen it called the other way. It makes the think the refs really don't know the **** what they're talking about.

[crawfish]

I want to stress that I am NOT upset with the refs. It was the playcalling...and sheer number of mistakes...that cost us a chance to win this game.

[oufan1]

I want to stress that I am NOT upset with the refs. It was the playcalling...and sheer number of mistakes...that cost us a chance to win this game.
Agreed we didnt lose becuase of the refs we lost because of mistakes, but we dont seem to be getting many breaks either

[jk the sooner fan]

lateral means sideways...it definitely was NOT a forward pass......so as much as it pains me to say it, i think they got the call right on that, as well as the AD fumble

the refs had NOTHING to do with this loss

it was our stupid mistakes, turnover, penalties (drive killers), and a pretty good texas team

congrats you effin horns:mad:

texas still sucks!

[leavingthezoo]

Because you're only down when your knee, elbow, or shoulder hits the ground, this was a fumble because he was not down, yet.

the ground forced the fumble. the ground can't force the fumble. bad ground. bad.

i hate instant replay- i hate it because it causes so many pauses during the game when a team has momentum, and also because... as we know, it doesn't correct the mistakes it is put in use for anyway. bad calls are livable. bad calls confirmed by replay and still allowed to stick are not. replay has only made football less enjoyable IMO.

i also hate the shortening of the game.

and horns. i hate the horns.

no i'm not arguing craptastic instant replay and a shorter game contributed to today's loss. i'm just saying i hate those things. and especially the horns. :mad:

[jk the sooner fan]

isnt the "ground causing the fumble" an NFL rule?...besides, his hand hit the ground and then the ball popped out.....i thought it was a fumble

[tennskier]

The forward pass that was ruled a backwards lateral, though, was completely laughable. And I wonder if on plays like that one the refs just assume 'let's let the play run it's course and if we got it wrong, replay will correct our mistake.'

Obviously, replay proves it's incapable of doing that.


I'm not saying that the bad calls made the difference in the game, but Grapevine, it's becoming more and more obvious that you're absolutely correct about the refs' attitudes. I'm still not ready to dump replay though, but I'm not sure what to do about it either.

[leavingthezoo]

isnt the "ground causing the fumble" an NFL rule?

good question...

someone in the know will have to let me know. i don't watch the nfl. if it is simply an nfl rule, i have no idea why i have knowledge of it. probably from listening to you goofballs. :P

[Getem]

I don't know what the rule is on the AD fumble, but the "lateral" was definitely a forward pass. Paul released it at the 11 1/2 line and AD touched it at the 12. Should have got that on the replay, but "chose not to". Jerks. The penalty on Finley was also ridiculous. Doesn't Bob have the option to request certain refs not get our games? These *******s need to be on that list. It didn't cost us the game like at UO, but it did cost us the chance to win the game on our own.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I wonder if it's going to be this way the whole season. I'm not saying we'd have won the game today but:

A forward pass deemed a lateral
A fumble the ground caused
A phantom PI call

I'm glad to see the ABC guys take a stand and basically say the officials made the wrong call. There's a definately monkeys (officials) on our backs.

I wonder when Stoops finally has enough. Will he say F it and leave for the NFL or come out with both barrels and call out the NCAA to fire officials that blow calls?Agreed. If you don't like that we agree, sorry Charlie.

[nBoSTP]

Limus Sweed clearly pushed off on DJ wolfe on his TD reception yet nothing was called. That was clearly more of an offensive pass interference situation than what Jo Jon Finley did.

[Tear Down This Wall]

You guys, seriously...

Limus Sweed pushed off? Many of you seriously need to step back and understand what is happening:

A TAILBACK NAMED D.J. WOLFE IS BEING PLAYED AT CORNERBACK FOR THE SECOND SEASON IN A ROW!

For the second year in a row, the 'Horn QBs burned him for a TD. Pushing off? Please, guys, get real about what is happening with our secondary.

How many different secondary lineups have we seen this year? Four or five? In five games? It's a problem. It's a big problem.

If they don't fix the problem soon, we'll be in Shreveport on New Year's Eve playing a fellow 7-4 or 6-5 SEC team, m'kay? I mean, really.

[nBoSTP]

He certainly pushed off more than Jo Jon Finlay did. Thats all I'm saying. If what Jo Jon did was PI than so was Limus Sweeds.

[delhalew]

You guys, seriously...

Limus Sweed pushed off? Many of you seriously need to step back and understand what is happening:

A TAILBACK NAMED D.J. WOLFE IS BEING PLAYED AT CORNERBACK FOR THE SECOND SEASON IN A ROW!

For the second year in a row, the 'Horn QBs burned him for a TD. Pushing off? Please, guys, get real about what is happening with our secondary.

How many different secondary lineups have we seen this year? Four or five? In five games? It's a problem. It's a big problem.

If they don't fix the problem soon, we'll be in Shreveport on New Year's Eve playing a fellow 7-4 or 6-5 SEC team, m'kay? I mean, really.

bingo!

[Tear Down This Wall]

Whether or not Joe Jon or Limus pushed off is irrelevant. What is relevant is that we keep running a guy out at corner who can't play corner.

Funny, Derrick Strait, Antonio Perkins, and Andre Woolfolk tended to not get pushed. The reason is they jammed guys at the line and stayed with them if they did get off the line. In short, they knew how to play corner and were very good at it.

It's not D.J.'s fault. He's a tailback. It's the coaching staff's fault for keeping up the charade and running him out there.

[Crucifax Autumn]

While I agree that our dumb playcalling at times in the game contributed to the loss, I also firmly believe that a large part of the blame lies squarely on the fact that every time we got some small amount of momentum going in the second half, bad calls and a slow and flawed review system killed it.

Should we have played well enough to overcome a few bad calls? Yes. Should we have had the mental toughness to move past it? Definitely. Should the refs have done THEIR JOB TOO???? Of course they should...especially when they can review the friggin' plays and when they slow the game and ruin the momentum!

[SoonerSinger3]

Let's face it folks...Sure, there were a few plays that we got screwed on, but this is the worst disciplined team since the stoops era...Fumbling all the time(it could have been worse...reggie fumbled a punt and iglesias had another ball roll outta bounds on a fumble)...next thing is we commited over 10 penalties...Bottom line is this team sucks fundamentally and it's sad because us and texas have same talent, but they are a better coached and disciplined team than we are...Unless things improve dramatically, ou coaching staff will look totally different for the 07 season opener

[SanMarcosCASooner]

WWW.VOIDGAME.COM

....can't cry over this one.

[Texas Golfer]

The AD fumble looked like a fumble by virtue of the fact that neither his knee or elbow hit the ground before he lost the ball.

AD's knees or elbows didn't need to touch the ground for the play to be over. Once the ball touches the ground, the play is over, too, and the ground cannot cause a fumble (unless you're OU).

Had AD spun out and touched the ground with the ball and ran for a TD, they would have called him down where the ball touched the ground. But these officials called it a fumble.

And, with the lateral that wasn't a lateral, there two turnovers that took points away from us and gave points to them. Add the called pushoff by us and the non-called pushoff by them for their TD, there's more points.

We got hosed again!

[sooner518]

My argument has nothing to do with the outcome of the game. Texas played well and beat us. Period. If we had somehow overcome these mistakes and actually won the game, I would still be angered by some of these calls.

When they showed the replay of the forward "lateral", I was relieved because surely there was no way the replay official can't see that the ball travelled forward. ABC had the perfect camera angle.

and on the AD fumble, since when can the ground cause a fumble? sure, it's easy for the on-field refs to make that mistake, but you have clear video evidence that the ground caused the fumble. do your ****ing job and correct the call!!!!

I really dont know what can be done. I dont understand who is watching this crap and what they are looking at up there! How do they keep screwing up such no brainer calls?! I just dont get it.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

AD's knees or elbows didn't need to touch the ground for the play to be over. Once the ball touches the ground, the play is over, too, and the ground cannot cause a fumble (unless you're OU).

Had AD spun out and touched the ground with the ball and ran for a TD, they would have called him down where the ball touched the ground. But these officials called it a fumble.

And, with the lateral that wasn't a lateral, there two turnovers that took points away from us and gave points to them. Add the called pushoff by us and the non-called pushoff by them for their TD, there's more points.

We got hosed again!We could easily have been up 24-7 at halftime were it not for the SORRY-A*S, MAYBE CRIMINAL officials.......AGAIN!

[Cr@zySooner]

We could easily have been up 24-7 at halftime were it not for the SORRY-A*S, MAYBE CRIMINAL officials.......AGAIN!

Agree, but what really upsets me is that no one has the B@lls (Sorry Bevo) to step up and push the issue. But I also know that if someone does step up and push the issue, they will be branded by the NCdumba$$AA and never have a fair game called. It is almost like the NCAA directs what teams they want to win by telling the game officials to make bad calls to help change the momentum of the game.

[Blue]

AD's knees or elbows didn't need to touch the ground for the play to be over. Once the ball touches the ground, the play is over, too, and the ground cannot cause a fumble (unless you're OU).

Had AD spun out and touched the ground with the ball and ran for a TD, they would have called him down where the ball touched the ground. But these officials called it a fumble.

And, with the lateral that wasn't a lateral, there two turnovers that took points away from us and gave points to them. Add the called pushoff by us and the non-called pushoff by them for their TD, there's more points.

We got hosed again!

SOUR ****ING GRAPES.

We Got Beat!

You not only annoy me with the font, now you blame the loss on mis-calls.

AGAIN. WE GOT BEAT.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

SOUR ****ING GRAPES.

We Got Beat!

You not only annoy me with the font, now you blame the loss on mis-calls.

AGAIN. WE GOT BEAT.You can be annoyed and wrong at the same time.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

You are right TDTW!!! I mean Rashaun Woods never EVER did anything against Derrick Strait!!! Thank goodness all those pushoffs he did on them I just totally imagined them! In this bizarro other world, did OU beat OsU in those games too, if so I would like to join you!!!

[Blue]

You can be annoyed and wrong at the same time.

Well you're always wrong.

Are you telling me we would have won without those calls?

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

SOUR ****ING GRAPES.

We Got Beat!

You not only annoy me with the font, now you blame the loss on mis-calls.

AGAIN. WE GOT BEAT.

What is this "we" stuff....Did you play? ;) Maybe you should fire yourself!

[Blue]

What is this "we" stuff....Did you play? ;) Maybe you should fire yourself!

STFU Semantics Boy...:D

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Agree, but what really upsets me is that no one has the B@lls (Sorry Bevo) to step up and push the issue. But I also know that if someone does step up and push the issue, they will be branded by the NCdumba$$AA and never have a fair game called. It is almost like the NCAA directs what teams they want to win by telling the game officials to make bad calls to help change the momentum of the game.Impossible to say that ther is some central direction, such as the NCAA, but is da*n safe to say that we get SCREWED by the officials VERY OFTEN. ..enough to alter the outcome(ie winner) of the respective games.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

[QUOTE=Blue

Are you telling me we would have won without those calls?[/QUOTE]What, you're saying we wouldn't have?

[Blue]

What, you're saying we wouldn't have?

YES.

They were better.

[mfosterftw]

I'm not going to complain about Sweed's TD, because the call would have been as marginal as the non-call Kelly got for his TD against Oregon. I'm not sure extending your arm to establish separation while outrunning the defender is going to get called 95% of the time. The lateral was a 50-50 call. I don't mind being no the wrong end of 50-50 calls... what I mind is being on the wrong end of 99-1 calls that are obvious to anyone who can score a 7 on the Wonderlick.

The Finley PI call was clearly BS, as was the AD ground fumble. My biggest problem with the PI was that the contact ceased before the ball was even in the air, plus the obvious fact it was incidental contact from moving through the line of scrimmage. You could call TEs or Tackle-Eligibles on that all day if you wanted to.

But the fumble shows what is wrong with officiating with the new review system. Grapevine touched on this - there's no incentive for the guys on the field to get it right. At the same time, I want to know the qualifications of the guy in the booth. Is he a former ref that knows the rules, or is he an 80 year old technophobe?

Look, we played like crap in the second half and didn't deserve the win. But I've said it before and I'll say it again, these games are too important to not demand accountability from the third team on the field.

Marc

[MiccoMacey]

Marc,

It's my understanding that was a fumble...it AD had continued and scored a TD, would you say he was down?

I understand the ground can't cause a fumble...but that's from direct contact between the ground and the ball. In other words, if the ball had touched the ground, it's dead, threfore can't be ruled a fumble.

The fact that no one disputed this (the officials, the replay booth guy, and the guys in the broadcast booth) seems that most people agree with this.

[MiccoMacey]

But, yes, the JJ Finley PI call was bogus.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

YES.

They were better.Look, they outplayed us for a while in the third quarter, but we could easily have been up by 14 points or more going into halftime, were it not for the blown calls. The officiating played a MAJOR factor in hte outcome of this game. We get hosed so often by the refs that we begin to doubt that fact-to think of ourselves as paranoid.

[Soonerus]

Look, they outplayed us for a while in the third quarter, but we could easily have been up by 14 points or more going into halftime, were it not for the blown calls. The officiating played a MAJOR factor in hte outcome of this game. We get hosed so often by the refs that we begin to doubt that fact-to think of ourselves as paranoid.

Amen, it was obvious if you were in the crowd,,,

[Blue]

Look, they outplayed us for a while in the third quarter, but we could easily have been up by 14 points or more going into halftime, were it not for the blown calls. The officiating played a MAJOR factor in hte outcome of this game. We get hosed so often by the refs that we begin to doubt that fact-to think of ourselves as paranoid.

It's football, not Liberal-politics. ;)

[MiccoMacey]

Because if we weren't there, we couldn't possibly know or have an opinion...because we don't get to see multiple camera angles...in slow motion.

You're just looking for a reason why we lost. We lost because Texas outplayed us, and we kicked our own ***. The refs didn't lose this game for us.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

It's football, not Liberal-politics. ;)It's pathetic officiating, or criminal officiating......but, HAHA!

[mfosterftw]

Marc,

It's my understanding that was a fumble...it AD had continued and scored a TD, would you say he was down?

I understand the ground can't cause a fumble...but that's from direct contact between the ground and the ball. In other words, if the ball had touched the ground, it's dead, threfore can't be ruled a fumble.

The fact that no one disputed this (the officials, the replay booth guy, and the guys in the broadcast booth) seems that most people agree with this.

Does it matter what part of his body touched the ground? If he went down on his elbow or shoulder (knees/hips not touching the ground), or flat on his back, and the ball pops up/out, the source of the separation is the ground, not contact with another player.

And Griese did seem to think it was down, but wasn't as adamant about the error as Fouts was a few weeks ago.

Marc

[MiccoMacey]

Does it matter what part of his body touched the ground? If he went down on his elbow or shoulder (knees/hips not touching the ground), or flat on his back, and the ball pops up/out, the source of the separation is the ground, not contact with another player.

That's not the way I understood the rule prior to the game, and it got upheld today.

Not trying to be combative...just disagree-ing.

[Soonerus]

The refs got an assist...

[mfosterftw]

I hear ya, Micco, and I'm trying to find a good reference to support either side. The only thing I've found (not looked real hard yet) is a Wiki entry that states A sometimes controversial rule is usually referred to as "the ground cannot cause a fumble." If a player is tackled and loses control of the ball at or after the time he makes contact with the ground, the player is treated as down and the ball is not in play.... but this is by no means an authoritative source.

I'm going to call it a night... would love to see some resolution on this one way or another...

Marc

[Salt City Sooner]

"Does it matter what part of his body touched the ground?"
Absolutely. From page 79, article 3B of the NCAA official rule book:

A ball is declared dead:


"When any part of the runner's body, except his hand or foot,touches the ground, or when the runner is tackled, or otherwise falls and loses possession of the ball as he contacts the ground with any part of his body, except his hand or foot."

http://www.ncaa.org/library/rules/2006/2006_football_rules.pdf

AD was never legally down, & he lost the ball. Hate to admit it, but that's a fumble.

[OUTrumpet]

lateral means sideways...it definitely was NOT a forward pass......so as much as it pains me to say it, i think they got the call right on that, as well as the AD fumble

the refs had NOTHING to do with this loss

it was our stupid mistakes, turnover, penalties (drive killers), and a pretty good texas team

congrats you effin horns:mad:

texas still sucks!

NCAA RULES
Rule 2
SECTION 19. Passes
Passing
ARTICLE 1. Passing the ball is throwing it. A pass continues to be a pass
until it is caught or intercepted by a player or the ball becomes dead.
Forward and Backward Pass
ARTICLE 2. a. A forward pass is determined by the point where the ball
first strikes the ground, a player, an official or anything beyond the spot
of the pass. All other passes are backward passes. When in question, it
is a forward pass rather than a backward pass when thrown in or
behind the neutral zone.

Those 5 turnovers are what killed us.

Those penalites were nails in the coffins.

Texas capitalized on all of our mistakes.

Even when we play well, holding their offense to 1 yard in the 2nd quarter, we found a way to not get things done.

[Echoes]

I don't see how you guys are complaining about the calls.

Personally, I did not think it was a forward pass. I watched it pretty closely on TV. All my buddies I was with thought it was, but it was simply to close ot overturn. Just how it is.

Finley did push off, even if they pushed off more, he still pushed off, period.

And I am not sure about the Peterson fumble rule, but I mean it looked like a fumble to me. He was careless with the ball and we payed for it.

If your looking for an explanation of why we lost, check the 11 penalties, 5 turnovers (Still 3 if you discount Petersons), 3 different offensive plays we ran all day, and the absolutely no energy in the second half.

[Desert Sapper]

I gave you guys all the credit in the world after Oregon..........to bitch about the refs this game when you where dominated the ENTIRE second half is pathetic....

NUT up SOONERS you lost this game ON THE FIELD and there is no one to blame............Except my horns

Congrats on the win. Now go f*** off somewhere else. :rolleyes:


And I can think of a lot of people to blame...I'll give you a hint: They don't wear zebra stripes and they don't wear burnt orange.

5 turnovers and sloppy play won't win a game when the talent base is even. You guys proved that plenty in 2000 and 2003. Good thing your precious whorns didn't have the firepower to make the game 63-14 or 65-13. Now STFU.

[Blue]

I gave you guys all the credit in the world after Oregon..........to bitch about the refs this game when you where dominated the ENTIRE second half is pathetic....

NUT up SOONERS you lost this game ON THE FIELD and there is no one to blame............Except my horns

Your sister has to die....;)

[noobalicious]

I agree that we got shafted on some calls including ANOTHER replay. However, this time we did lose the game legitimately. We played sloppy (penalties and turnovers) and with a lack of desire to win in the 2nd half. In such a huge rivalry game, those two factors will get you a big fat L 95% of the time.

That being said Ruck Feplay! :D

[Blue]

That is going to be long shot from OH..........................................IO.

Good luck brother it has been good debating you.

Quit being a bitch. We haven't begone to debate. You've made comments. That's about it.

[Desert Sapper]

Good thing your school has not had the fire power to actually win the series.


You can't honestly have just won the RRS and still fall back on that tired old 'series dating back to leather helmets and cowpies in the middle of the field when we only played three games all year long and 2/3 of the games were to directional teachers' colleges' bulls***. Man, that's pathetic. I don't feel so bad after all. Hahaha:D

[SGT Park3R]

Unfortunately I think we are going to be getting a tough time from the refs all year due to the Oregon game. We had sooo many plays reviewed that were blatantly obvious. And nic nac penalties. I don't think any refs are going to cut us any slack.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Unfortunately I think we are going to be getting a tough time from the refs all year due to the Oregon game. We had sooo many plays reviewed that were blatantly obvious. And nic nac penalties. I don't think any refs are going to cut us any slack.What makes you say "our little officiating problem" started with the Oregon game?

[SGT Park3R]

Yea you're right. Sometimes I feel like the whole nation is against us and wants to see us lose.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Yea you're right. Sometimes I feel like the whole nation is against us and wants to see us lose.One would like to think that's not so. But, it seems that way to me, too. There really is no reasonable explanation for the officiating we have gotten over the years, and especially the last couple of years.

[FaninAma]

Tennesse won a national championship because Clint Stoener, the Arkansas QB, put the ball on the ground while he was scrambling and left it there. Arkansas was leading and would have run out the clock. It was called a fumble and Tennesse recovered, went on to score and the rest is history.

[Pepper]

Anyone who thinks the pass was a backward pass needs to read the rules. When in question, it is defined as a forward pass. Therefore you need conclusive evidence that it was backwards in order to call it a fumble. Even if it was perfectly lateral, it is defined as a forward pass. The refs said it was perfectly lateral, therefore a backwards pass by definition. That is bull. The rule is exactly the opposite of what they said. I would say the fact that it went to reply defines the play as "in question." Therefore it is an incomplete pass.

Also I have never seen the ground cause a fumble before now. I am not sure about that rule, but years of watching football I always see plays like that ruled no fumble.

[Statalyzer]

Desert Sapper - this rivalry is what it is today because of those guys who started it back in the 1900s, 10s, 20s, and 30s. Cutting off a series at one point just because that point makes the record closer to being in your favor is silly. In 100 years people might be talking about those 1950s and 1970s games you won the way you talk about the pre-1950s games we won.


You are arguing, for example, that if a player dove with the ball, and then as his hands and ball hits the ground and the ball comes out, then it is a fumble.

Yes, that is a fumble.

There is no such rule as "The ground cannot cause a fumble."

If you're going to say a player is down when he's holding the football in his hand and it touches the ground, then you'd have to call the QB down if he's in the shotgun and he picks up a low snap off the ground.

[OKC-SLC]

Tennesse won a national championship because Clint Stoener, the Arkansas QB, put the ball on the ground while he was scrambling and left it there. Arkansas was leading and would have run out the clock. It was called a fumble and Tennesse recovered, went on to score and the rest is history.
nice memory, and great point. Stoerner and Arkie were undefeated at that point, if my memory serves.

[Desert Sapper]

Desert Sapper - this rivalry is what it is today because of those guys who started it back in the 1900s, 10s, 20s, and 30s. Cutting off a series at one point just because that point makes the record closer to being in your favor is silly. In 100 years people might be talking about those 1950s and 1970s games you won the way you talk about the pre-1950s games we won.

I agree that those original football players in the sweaters with no helmets started this rivalry. You just can't deny that. They were tough and they were mean and nasty in an era when Texas was still nothing but cattle country and Oklahoma was Indian territory. My point was that the first thirty or so years of this rivalry matched what amount to club teams. The majority of those games were played in Austin. Beating an OU team whose most memorable win was against the Chilocco Indian School doesn't really carry much weight in my eyes. Using that as a basis of smack talk is ludicrous, especially when you have beaten us now two years running.

I pointed out that you forced 5 turnovers and beat us soundly, but the Sooner team did not melt down to the tune of a record-setting loss a la the whorns in 2000 and 2003. The resulting smack from PlanoUT was about the series record. The same smack that whorns were using when we owned you on the field. Even you have to admit how pathetic that is, considering that the table has shifted in your favor.

As far as games from the 50's to 70's losing credibility, I hope not. At least the game resembled the modern game back then. It really didn't in the first 30 years of this series.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I agree that those original football players in the sweaters with no helmets started this rivalry. You just can't deny that. They were tough and they were mean and nasty in an era when Texas was still nothing but cattle country and Oklahoma was Indian territory. My point was that the first thirty or so years of this rivalry matched what amount to club teams. The majority of those games were played in Austin. Beating an OU team whose most memorable win was against the Chilocco Indian School doesn't really carry much weight in my eyes. Using that as a basis of smack talk is ludicrous, especially when you have beaten us now two years running.

I pointed out that you forced 5 turnovers and beat us soundly, but the Sooner team did not melt down to the tune of a record-setting loss a la the whorns in 2000 and 2003. The resulting smack from PlanoUT was about the series record. The same smack that whorns were using when we owned you on the field. Even you have to admit how pathetic that is, considering that the table has shifted in your favor.

As far as games from the 50's to 70's losing credibility, I hope not. At least the game resembled the modern game back then. It really didn't in the first 30 years of this series.VERY well said. You only forgot to add...buhbye whorns!

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

If you're going to say a player is down when he's holding the football in his hand and it touches the ground, then you'd have to call the QB down if he's in the shotgun and he picks up a low snap off the ground.If the ball was hiked from center, and the QB is not in possession of it yet, and picks it up off the ground, how is that comparable to a player(AD) being in possession, then touching it on the ground. "The ground does not cause a fumble" IS the correct ruling. The pllay is dead when a player in possession touches the ball to the ground.

[OUFan22]

His hand hit the ground, first. Then the ball came out.

Because you're only down when your knee, elbow, or shoulder hits the ground, this was a fumble because he was not down, yet.

Notice nobody on the OU sideline argued about that call.
Nope, the ground cannot cause a fumble. Adrian's hand hitting the ground is what caused the ball to come loose. That's not a fumble!

BTW, what was the penalty comparison. We had a bunch and Texas hardly had ANY!

[Texas Golfer]

SOUR ****ING GRAPES.

We Got Beat!

You not only annoy me with the font, now you blame the loss on mis-calls.

AGAIN. WE GOT BEAT.

Reread the post again. Nowhere did I say the officials cost us the game. I merely noted the several calls that hosed us.

I find it humorous that your are more annoyed with my font than you are being hosed by the officials.

[jester006]

This is my first post on these boards. I normally just listen and learn. However I figured I would pretend as though Bob Stoops reads these forums...and yes, i know that he doesn't.

Mr. Stoops, the game of football or any sport for that matter is just as much physical as it is psychological. There is a psychological relationship between every potential opponent on the field. Player to player, coach to coach, player to ref, ref to coach so forth and so on. The goal is not to just physically dominate your opponent but to psychologically dominate your opponent as well.

Throughout the history of sports we can learn a few things. Whether its baseball, football, basketball or any sport that requires an official, history has proven that the officials can alter the course of a game...they can even go so far as to determine the winner of the game regardless of rules (OU vs Oregon, 1972 USA vs Soviet Union Olympic basketball, Colorado's magical 1990 5th down).

With this in mind it is critical to understand that an official can be the teams worst enemy or biggest ally. Until officiating is carried out by robots rather than humans there will always be the variable of the officials favor when playing a game. It is humanly impossible for an official to judge a game with 100% unbiasedness. If you are yelling and screaming and cursing in the ear of the officials every other play there is a good chance that your competitor is going to win the subconscious or conscious favoritism of the official. So rather than yelling screaming and questioning every single play that doesn't go in your favor try to gain the favoritism of the official. Do some brown nosing, some *** kissing knowing that you aren't an *** kisser by heart but you are playing the psychological game that exists between official and coach. Earn the favoritism of the official and that is one more very important, if not most important part of the game that you have one.

ps. Not saying OU would have won if the officiating was different, congrats to Texas.

[GrapevineSooner]

Nope, the ground cannot cause a fumble. Adrian's hand hitting the ground is what caused the ball to come loose. That's not a fumble!

BTW, what was the penalty comparison. We had a bunch and Texas hardly had ANY!

So when AD's hand hit the ground, was he down?

[birddog]

i've just always been told that when the football being possessed hits the ground, it is a dead ball. i have heard so many variations of the rule and from what i've heard on here, ad could have kept running had he kept possession of the ball after it touched the ground.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

So when AD's hand hit the ground, was he down?I saw AD in possession, hitting the ball to the ground, and the ball pops out upon hitting the ground.