Do we run up the middle w/AD too much?

[OU-HSV]

After the first few weeks of the season I'm fairly convinced that we run up the middle w/AD too much. Although he's productive w/the ball in his hands anywhere on the field because he's a freak of nature , don't you guys (and ladies) think he's more productive/more of a threat when we let him take it to the outside?
Please vote and discuss

[stoops the eternal pimp]

The reason I say no is because of the way he takes over late in the game....A lot of that comes from him pounding into the dl over and over and wearing them down..he just physically wears them out over the course of the game.....when you start running outside more often than not, LBs and DBs make more of the plays and its not as taxing on the DL

[Mongo]

AD is the first person in a long time to have that blazing speed to round the edge. Get your best player out on the edge and into open space. Not sayin no middle runs, but need to figure out how to get him outside more.

[OU-HSV]

AD is the first person in a long time to have that blazing speed to round the edge. Get your best player out on the edge and into open space. Not sayin no middle runs, but need to figure out how to get him outside more.
That's my thinking about this as well. I mean the guy is a freak and he has and will always break some big ones up the middle, but it just seems like he's got that burst when he gets outside and breaks a tackle and he's gone.

[the_ouskull]

My problem is that 8 yard deep formation that they run him out of. They almost NEVER play-action out of it, and he usually just hits a pile and moves it two yards or so. That's GREAT on 3rd and 1. It SUCKS on 1st and 10.

the_ouskull

[Soonermagik]

I don't mind them running him up the middle every now and then. Even Oregon's coach said their goal was to keep AD between the tackles, because when he gets to the edge he's dangerous.

[stoopified]

How about a little toss sweep action?

[RacerX]

Isn't it really that we try to run him up the middle without a FB too much?

[LilSooner]

Just like the run sets up the pass, running between the tackles sets-up running on the outside.

Some of AD's biggest runs have come from running between the tackles.

-Rhino

[ashley]

Trust the coaches, they know that with the great speed on good teams that on wide plays the defense flows so fast that now days it is hard to break a big in outside. AD is more likely to beake up the middle, on the lead and counter or the tight speep than an outside run. Yes, sometime it will be there but not as often.

[Ash]

I say "too early" only because there isn't another option. I've already heard KW address this question. They've got a number of plays for AD that they game plan for but in all the games so far he's said that once they see what the defense is giving them they try to adjust. Fairly basic. I don't think there's an overarching plan to always run AD one way or another.

[eagleron49]

Maybe they need to spread the offense out and if the defense stacks the line start passing until the middle opens up or send AD out on some screen passes.Also I would like to see a few plays with the wishbone again

[eagleron49]

As far as a rookie :only on this site I have followed with them since the late 60's

[SoonerMajic]

Some things I would like to see more of:

1. The Counter-toss, where PT opens one way and pitches to AD going the other way. WE ran it some against Oregon or Washington.

2. Continuing to run screens with AD, but occassionally using that as a decoy and throwing back to the tight end across the middle.

3. A fake option play like Nebraska used to run, set up with some option plays, where PT runs parallel to the line of scrimmage to just past the tackle and then does a short drop for a pass.

4. PT keeping the ball on a bootleg the other way on some of the plays where we have been handing off to AD up the middle. PT is so good with his ball fakes, and that play was open a bunch last night as Paul carried out the balance of the play after AD had the ball.


5. Remember the play we use to run with Fagin (i think it was him) several years ago where he would go in motion, and be almost at a dead run at the snap, and the QB qould simply turn and hand him the ball. It was somewhat like an end-around. Do that with Kelly, Joquin and maybe even AD.

I hate to complain but it seems like we are too predictable on offense. Obviously, PT's passing sets up AD's runs but I would like to see us use other things to do so too.

Maybe things have been simplied for PT, but it seemed like Wilson's offensive was much more imanginative in the Holiday Bowl.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

My problem is that 8 yard deep formation that they run him out of. They almost NEVER play-action out of it, and he usually just hits a pile and moves it two yards or so. That's GREAT on 3rd and 1. It SUCKS on 1st and 10.

the_ouskullThe definitive answer, IMO.

[starclassic tama]

no and if you think so then you know absolutely nothing about football. you can't run to the outside every play. that's like saying we shouldn't throw less than 30 yard bombs. you have to set up the long passes and runs to the outside by moving the ball effectively.

[westcoast_sooner]

Absolutely right Starclassic. Running up the middle may not yield the number of yards we would like, and aren't as flashy as a long run down the sideline, but they help wear the defense down for the 3rd and 4th quarters.

Linebackers will also have a tendency to cheat up in the middle to set up the play on the edge. IMO, though, we could play action out of that, more.

[boomersoonerdude]

AD swing left or right always resulted in better yardages.... Could someone verify that?

[opksooner]

no and if you think so then you know absolutely nothing about football. you can't run to the outside every play. that's like saying we shouldn't throw less than 30 yard bombs. you have to set up the long passes and runs to the outside by moving the ball effectively.
Yessss.

Every play is not necessarily designed or intended to go the distance, although that would be nice and once in a while you get lucky. Some plays can be run to see the defense's reaction and are just a prelude to what we really intend to do, i.e., play action after a couple successful pops into the line.

[/Captain Obvious]

[rhombic21]

I don't agree that we run up the middle as much as you think.

That stretch play that we run a lot is designed to get to the outside, or have a cutback up the middle if the defnese overpursues, but the problem is that the linemen aren't getting the blocks set up, so it gets blown up before AD can hit the edge.

Personally, I think that we need to use a lot more "power" plays, as well as tosses and counters. The stretch play just doesn't seem to play to the strength of our OL. We have big guys up front, but they aren't especially athletic. Also, the LBs are firing off for AD as soon as the ball is snapped, so I'd like to see some misdirection to try and catch them overpursuing. I also agree that we need to see more tosses and sweeps, especially down near the goal line.

With the way that our FBs are playing (not especially well), I wouldn't be surpised to see us use more shotgun sets, where the pass and QB run game is a bigger threat, to try and strecth the defense out and create some running lanes.

[OU-HSV]

no and if you think so then you know absolutely nothing about football. you can't run to the outside every play. that's like saying we shouldn't throw less than 30 yard bombs. you have to set up the long passes and runs to the outside by moving the ball effectively.
I never said we should run outside every play..it just seems to me that we've ran up the gut an awful lot, and on consecutive plays even. I'm simply saying let's run AD more to the outside and less to the inside. But thanks for questioning my football knowledge, I understand the fact that certain run playcalls set up the passing game and certain passes open up some runs.

[GottaHavePride]

Obviously you can't do all one or the other. It does seem to me that early in the game, getting AD to the outside is more effective. Into the second half, though, when the opposing D-line is wearing down and our conditioning is starting to take over, AD up the middle becomes hugely effective. I do agree, though, AD benefits from either a FB or an extra TE to block.

[goingoneight]

Yes... but only because this team needs him so desperately. You can see how the team performs better when he's alive and thriving in the second halves of games. We can't afford to keep running him into piles of DL men. Even a weakling can bum an ankle or tear up a good knee. Ask C.J. Ah You or AD about getting piled up on... To say I know nothing about football is ludicrous... I saw the Middle Tennessee team beating OUr OL up the middle every snap from the first of the game. This comes with OL problems we knew would show up eventually. Let me ask you... what good is a bull who gets hit by a train? I say, only run it up the middle when you've determined a weakness or tired defensive line... that's called hitting them where it hurts, much better than committing suicide. And I know you all don't expect Allen Patrick to pick it up and own like AD does. God Bless AP, but he ain't no AD...

[stoops the eternal pimp]

another thing is that outside plays usually need a strong fullback,or a quick pulling guard, good wr blocking, and a tackle with good foot speed...such as a jammal brown or wes sims at guard or davin at guard.....and of course jd at fullback.....and mark clayton may have been the best wr at oklahoma as far as in terms of blocking skills....all of those things may be leading to more runs up the middle also

[TUSooner]

The reason I say no is because of the way he takes over late in the game....A lot of that comes from him pounding into the dl over and over and wearing them down..he just physically wears them out over the course of the game.....when you start running outside more often than not, LBs and DBs make more of the plays and its not as taxing on the DL
Eggggg-ZACT-ly!

[C&CDean]

If we weren't running AD between the tackles, PT wouldn't be having near the season he's having so far. Defenses are cheating to the gut, leaving a lot of outside receivers 1-1. Also opening up the tight end passing game.

I say we STFU and let our coaches coach.

[Ash]

If we weren't running AD between the tackles, PT wouldn't be having near the season he's having so far. Defenses are cheating to the gut, leaving a lot of outside receivers 1-1. Also opening up the tight end passing game.

I say we STFU and let our coaches coach.

My thoughts exactly.

[soonertruth12]

its early and i dont think we have seen even half off the plays that will be run this year...be patient and wait for next weekend

[Rufnek76]

Definitely...YES...get him to the outside..PLEASE...I think he had one or two plays to the outside on Saturday....we've got to get him out there against Texass!

[OU-HSV]

If we weren't running AD between the tackles, PT wouldn't be having near the season he's having so far. Defenses are cheating to the gut, leaving a lot of outside receivers 1-1. Also opening up the tight end passing game.

I say we STFU and let our coaches coach.
Sorry, I just thought I'd bring up something that's been on my mind early this season which seems to have drawn some interest from the other posters. Like I said before, I completely agree that running up the gut opens other plays up. I'm just saying that if we'd run AD outside more often than we have been, maybe we'd have even more success on the ground. Maybe the coaches have some more of that in mind for the RRS.