The "Stoops Era Myth"

[Triumph]

Something has changed, I can't put my finger on it, but it's not the same.

I see less intensity, less gambling, less innovation, less something.


I know I will get neg'd for this, but something is not the same in Sooner land.

Maybe not Boo Blake wrong, but not top 5 program right either.

Can anyone honestly say that watching OU and USC play last night tell me that those two programs are anywhere close to each other.

All excuses aside, we used to be USC, now I'm afraid we are going the way of Florida State and Miami.

There have been whispers about Bob not being happy, I can see it. When Bob was hired he had a dream team of assistants. Not anymore. I think the honeymoon is over for Big Game Bob, and he is at a professional crossroads. It will be interesting to see how this plays out, but my gut says it may be a while before we see another run like we had in 2000-2004.

Many posters have said it and I believe it, our team and program lost more than just a game to suc in the orange bowl. The team has never been the same since. I used to love getting on the message boards and reading about the great things our players and coach's were saying and doing. Now all I read about are "2 or 3 big plays" and prima donna players thinking they are champions just because they signed an LOI to OU.

Don't get me wrong I love OU. But for several years I loved how the coach's and players acted so much it was slightly gay. I don't feel that way anymore.

Maybe Bob is getting burned out, maybe he is the "Larry Brown" of college football. Maybe it was all the assistants. I don't know, but something is different.

I just can't put my finger on it, but it's different.

[Indy Sooner]

Great post... you've captured many of my own feelings regarding the recent direction of the program during the current "Stoops Era".

[Newbomb Turk]

I know I will get neg'd for this, but something is not the same in Sooner land.


Not from me - you make some good points.

[boomrsoonr]

In collegiate sports, there is always going to be down times for teams. Student athletes come and go. Some are the best in the business, some aren't quite there. A coach has to use what he has, and try to compete. It should never be implied that a coach can take a group of average athletes and turn them into superhuman, Godlike, beings. Bob can only work with what he has.

Losing the two National Championship games the way we did obviously has hurt some of our recruiting efforts. Maybe that will change. Maybe it won't. Either way, a good coach will take what he has and try to make them better so the team can be competitive. They won't always win. What they do after a loss is a better test of the team and it's leadership.

Bob is a good coach. The Sooners are an average team. Will they always be this way? I doubt it. People need to remove the crimson glasses and take a look at things. Last year was an amazingly successful year considering all the people we lost to graduation. We beat the #6 team in the country in the Holiday Bowl. This year, we'll have to see what happens. We're still a very young team that has a lot of character. Most of that character I contribute to Bob and his staff. We'll be fine.

[oufan199]

Triumph,

You have said it well. I made the post last night that OU's psyche was wounded in that Southern Cal game and the program has yet to recover. I truly believe that. Usually it comes down to players, but I was a lot prouder of OU's 7-5 season in 1999 (when we led in every game, I think) than I have been of any teams lately. We played with giddy enthusiasm that first year (who can forget going to Notre Dame and playing the socks off them). I guarantee you, the Oregon team we played yesterday is not very good, nor did it even play a very good game (three turnovers to none, yet we still couldn't beat them).

Four years ago, I shuddered to think of Bob Stoops leaving OU for Florida or the pros; now, I'm not so sure that would be so bad. When is the last time we played a good game, much less a good game against a quality opponent? The Colorado Big 12 title game two years ago? Heck, considering what's happened to the Buffs, that game shouldn't even count. OSU was a dropped pass away from beating us in Stillwater two years ago, and they'll probably beat us there this year. I guarantee you there's no way OU would have stayed any closer to USC than Nebraska did last night.

If Stoops really wants to stick around, he should start by hiring a new defensive coordinator. The offense is at least no worse than last year, even without a good quarterback (Thompson is doing his best, but admit it, he's not nearly the type of player a program the caliber of OU should have). Changing coordinators seems to have worked at Texas. But also, we need to get the same psyche transplant the Longhorns got. If they beat us 46-12 again this year, and they might, I think heads had better roll. Stoops won't be fired unless there's three or four losing seasons, but staff changes must be made.

[All_Day_28]

really good post. I have been feeling the exact same way. I just can't figure out what's changed either. It's really heartbreaking.

[SoonerGM]

you make some valid points. but, as you said, we may be going the way of Florida State and Miami... but now, why are they not #1 contenders anymore either? maybe because it is hard to be in contention for a national championship EVERY SINGLE YEAR.

sure those teams are not what they were 4-5 years ago, but they are far from the worst teams out there. so many variables have to come together for a team to go all they way and become the champion. we expect to be there year in and year out. this is not something that is realistic. so ask yourself... is something truly so wrong(and i do not mean do we need to improve things) or do we as fans have our expectations way to high?

[mrowl]

no negging here. Something has changed.

#1. Mike Stoops to Arizona.
#2. How many OL have we lost?

IMO, Joe C better have his "list" up to date. And I hope that Rich Rodriguez, is near the top, cause J. Jones is going to do everything to hire Stoops if Parcells leaves this year.

[TXBOOMER]

We brought the game to the other team with guys like Tommie Harris, Roy Williams, Derek Strait, Rocky Calmus, Teddy Lehman, Dusty Dvoracek, Brandon Everage, Antonio Perkins, Jimmy Wilkerson, Andre Woolfolk and Torrence Marshall. We now let the other team bring the game to us. When you are whipping a dude's *** you kick his teeth in, to end it. If you don't you will get your teeth kicked in every oince in a while by someone that shouldn't even last a minute against you. Stoops is going to have to put his friendship aside and get some attitude back in here.

[ADs_Agent]

they have lost there swagger. OU's defense used to walk on the field and flat out intimidate any offense who stepped on the field with them. Roy Williams and Derrick Strait used to carry themselves where receivers were afraid to catch the ball. Who has that intimidation factor? Now the receivers and opposing QB's intimidate our defense.

[Fraggle145]

I agree with many of the points you make... in fact pretty much all of them, but to call the Stoops era a myth is a little ridiculous I mean we have won ~82% of our games (something like 86-13) under him. I agree we have lost something a big something... people know what to expect from us on defense, its like they know when we are going to blitz and where we are coming from. Maybe we are still trying the same defensive strategies from 2000 and everyone has caught on. we dont seem to be as intense anymore. I saw sparks of it in the second half of the Oregon game, but never is it an all the time thing. I'm not sure what we need. KW has done a good job mashing an offense together and they seem to be playing well enough. I would agree bob seems to have lost some intensity, man i just dont know what it is, but it doesnt change the fact that I am going to cheer my *** off every game till I am hoarse (either in the stands or at the TV) and be jubilant when we win and down trodden when we lose... BOOMER.

[Stoop Dawg]

Ahhhhh, that's more like it. Now there's plenty of room on the bandwagon for me to stretch out my legs and relax a little. All you morons were giving me claustrophobia.

Here's what's changed: expectations.

You were happy with 7-5 in 1999? Why? Maybe because of our record in 1998? You're unhappy with one loss (by one point, on the road, on a couple of bad calls) this year?

Maybe you should go root for Notre Dame. Oh wait, they lost at home yesterday. Looks like USC or Ohio State are your only options - this year. Don't worry, I'll keep your seat on the Sooner Schooner warm so it won't be too uncomfortable when you hop back on later in the year.

[opksooner]

Something has changed, I can't put my finger on it, but it's not the same.

I see less intensity, less gambling, less innovation, less something.


I know I will get neg'd for this, but something is not the same in Sooner land.

Maybe not Boo Blake wrong, but not top 5 program right either.

Can anyone honestly say that watching OU and USC play last night tell me that those two programs are anywhere close to each other.

All excuses aside, we used to be USC, now I'm afraid we are going the way of Florida State and Miami.

There have been whispers about Bob not being happy, I can see it. When Bob was hired he had a dream team of assistants. Not anymore. I think the honeymoon is over for Big Game Bob, and he is at a professional crossroads. It will be interesting to see how this plays out, but my gut says it may be a while before we see another run like we had in 2000-2004.

Many posters have said it and I believe it, our team and program lost more than just a game to suc in the orange bowl. The team has never been the same since. I used to love getting on the message boards and reading about the great things our players and coach's were saying and doing. Now all I read about are "2 or 3 big plays" and prima donna players thinking they are champions just because they signed an LOI to OU.

Don't get me wrong I love OU. But for several years I loved how the coach's and players acted so much it was slightly gay. I don't feel that way anymore.

Maybe Bob is getting burned out, maybe he is the "Larry Brown" of college football. Maybe it was all the assistants. I don't know, but something is different.

I just can't put my finger on it, but it's different.

Would you be posting this if the review official had seen the play our way and OU, a 4.5 point underdog, playing on the road had emerged with a win?

[boomrsoonr]

Here's what's changed: expectations.


Tru dat!

[FormerSoonerProf]

I agree with the original poster... Stoops seems to have lost his intensity.
Perhaps he's getting too much money???
Not hungry to win any more??
Has already proved he can win it all... so what else is there to prove?

And I don't agree with the expectations part at all... Those expectations in 1999 were ok given the talent he had. With the talent he has now (which is several orders of magnitude higher), the expectations will naturally be higher. As a coach, you must motivate the others to mold those talented players to come together and play to win. The defense is sadly TOTALLY clueless. In the Oregon game, they looked so totally confused, it was downright sad.

[CtheB]

Personally, I think that our coaching staff has been in serious transition since the NC year of 2000. My fear is that, beginning with the ****** column, this program's stigma has been chipped away at time after time, leading to what we see today. Will changes be made? And are they necessary? Don't really know, but anyone that thinks we are even close to playing at the level we were at in 03-04 is fooling themselves, and that goes from the top down.

[GottaHavePride]

Would you be posting this if the review official had seen the play our way and OU, a 4.5 point underdog, playing on the road had emerged with a win?

Even if we had won, I'd still be a bit ****ed that three teams in a row (two of which should have been run out of the stadium by halftime) have managed to score nearly effortlessly on their opening drives of the game. That signals major defensive problems to me.

[Stoop Dawg]

Would you be posting this if the review official had seen the play our way and OU, a 4.5 point underdog, playing on the road had emerged with a win?

Remember all the Sooner fans predicting a loss at Oregon before the season started? It's not like this is totally unexpected.

Yes, it would have been nice to win that game. In fact, I think we *did* win that game - everywhere except on the scoreboard - where it counts.

I'm not sure why anyone would call our staff or players out after that game - unless it's sheer lack of intelligence. Of course they could have played better. But IMO, they played well enough to win.

[boomrsoonr]

And I don't agree with the expectations part at all... Those expectations in 1999 were ok given the talent he had. With the talent he has now (which is several orders of magnitude higher), the expectations will naturally be higher.


And just what source are you using that says the talent of today is better than the 1999 season. Especially since the same players in the '99 season are the same players in the undefeated, National Championship season of 2000? Please tell me you're not putting all your trust in the Rivals high school crap.

[sooner94]

Would you be posting this if the review official had seen the play our way and OU, a 4.5 point underdog, playing on the road had emerged with a win?

Exactly. Can't say it any better than that.

[KC//CRIMSON]

It starts and ends with Mike Stoops.

[Newbomb Turk]

I'm not sure why anyone would call our staff or players out after that game - unless it's sheer lack of intelligence.

Personally, I wasn't too happy the way we played defense the last two series. Maybe it's just me.

edit - I probably do lack a little intelligence. :O

[Since71ASooner4Life]

you make some valid points. but, as you said, we may be going the way of Florida State and Miami... but now, why are they not #1 contenders anymore either? maybe because it is hard to be in contention for a national championship EVERY SINGLE YEAR.

sure those teams are not what they were 4-5 years ago, but they are far from the worst teams out there. so many variables have to come together for a team to go all they way and become the champion. we expect to be there year in and year out. this is not something that is realistic. so ask yourself... is something truly so wrong(and i do not mean do we need to improve things) or do we as fans have our expectations way to high?

Amen brother. Anyone unsatisfied with 3 trips to the title game in 6 years isn't old enough to know how special that run has been, and that it's not to be expected every year. Anyone remember how many years it had been before USC's recent championships?

[mightysooner]

I agree something has definitely changed. I think it started with the K-State Big XII debacle though, not the USC game. Something changed that night (I was there) and it's been that way ever since. I can't put my finger on it either. Definitely Mike's departure has hurt us badly and Bob seems more combative and defensive than ever when he's questioned. What I don't see from Bob, that I see in other great coaches, is the willingness to make staff changes that he needs to make.
Chuck Long never should have been here for as long as he was and Stoops defended him to the end. Venables clearly isn't getting the job done either and I think he's going to get a lot of criticism heaped on him this week. My guess is Bob will aggressively defend his boy yet again. Bob has a problem with nepotism and ego and it's starting to effect the program on the field. It pains me to say it but he's definitely lost some of his luster. Something just doesn't seem right with him anymore. He's not the same guy he was 5-6 years ago. I'm stumped......

As for us going the way of FSU and Miami, does anyone here not believe that what's wrong with FSU is also nepotism with Bowden and his failing son as the OC? Does anyone believe that what's wrong with Miami isn't staff ineptitude as well? These two programs could be back up on top in no time flat if they made the changes they needed to make. Same with Penn State.

[Stoop Dawg]

Personally, I wasn't too happy the way we played defense the last two series. Maybe it's just me.

edit - I probably do lack a little intelligence. :O

I probably shot from the hip a little with my remark. I've got no problem with people discussing - even criticizing - our coaching staff. What got under my skin is calling 3 NC appearances in 6 years a "myth". That's just plain stupid, no other way to say it. Especially since we're not even out of the hunt yet this year.

That's right, I said it. If we beat Texas in two weeks (which is very possible, if not probable) I think we've got a real chance at playing for the NC. It probably sounds a little foolish right now, but I don't see another team that's gonna beat us.

[boomer in clear lake]

I think it started with the aftermath of the 2003 A$M game. The negative national attention for running up the score (unjustified) took something out of the program psychologically. Follow that up with Mike S going to AZ, the K-State embarrassment, the first three quarters against LSU etc etc and we begin the shift from top 5 program to top 15 program. Much better than we were in the 90's but not near as much fun as 2000 - 2004.

[OklahomaTuba]

Bob isn't happy??

Whats wrong? Is job security while making millions a year just not enough for the man? Good lord!

If thats true, then it sounds like he is slowly turning into Mack Brown. Hires his buddies for assistant coaches, and then wonders why we aren't as good as we used to be.

Hope I am wrong, cause I love him being the coach here.

[OklahomaTuba]

Much better than we were in the 90's but not near as much fun as 2000 - 2004.
It all comes down to the QB in my opinion. No leadership in 2005.

This year, we have developing leadership, and thats why we rolled in to Oregon and nearly won the game.

The Defense cost us that game.

[Jewstin]

Many posters have said it and I believe it, our team and program lost more than just a game to suc in the orange bowl. The team has never been the same since.

Yeah. After that happened, I remember having a conversation with my dad about how that sort of loss isn't just a loss ... it kills programs.

For us to get absolutely humiliated in our own back yard, the Orange Bowl...

That's when the biggest drop off occurred. The trend started downhill after the KSU Big XII championship game.

[Triumph]

Would you be posting this if the review official had seen the play our way and OU, a 4.5 point underdog, playing on the road had emerged with a win?


To be honest yes I would, and I have felt this way for a while. However like most sooner fanatics, I get a bit emotional and sadly a bit too concerned about a game played by 19 and 20 year olds.

I guess my biggest gripe is that I don't see the freshness and innovation that we saw for so long. I see gameplans that are questionable.

Fact is, take away the hype of the Nike empire, I just don't think that Oregon is that good. We could have and should have beaten them by at least 3 touchdowns. But we didn't.

We didn't not because of blown calls, but because of mental mistakes, lining up wrong, and blowing assignments. Sure mistakes happen, but this is beginning to become a trend. I could live with mistakes last year, young team, blah, blah, blah.

But this team should have been inspired after last year to improve, and quite frankly minus the great play a few individuals, I still see the same mistakes of an undisciplined football team.

Again, please spare me the "bandwagon" comments and the "too young to remember" comments. I'm Sooner fan, but my wife is tired of hearing me bitch, and if I can't bitch here..[Gere] I got no where else to go[gere]

[TheGodfather889]

Over the past month or so I've been wondering the same thing. There is something different about the program but I haven't been able to figure out what it is. I think I have it figured out. It's not one thing, it's a collection of bad things. The bust of the 2003 recruiting class,losing Mike Stoops,getting crushed by USC,losing 27 players after 2004,Brent Venables and alot of lost offensive linemen. Those things have hurt us. It is heartbreaking to not be in the title talk and be considered an elite powerhouse like we used to be. But I guess that's just the way things are right now. :(

[OUstud]

Would you be posting this if the review official actually watched the play instead of lacking the balls to reverse the call and OU, a 4.5 point underdog, playing on the road had emerged with a win?

Fixed.

[The VIIIth]

Man, talk about Vuja De...I made a similar post a short while back on another board. Here's an excerpt from my post on 9/5/06...

"To be frank, there hasn't been any good news out of Stoops camp in a couple of years. He had a huge taste of humility last year, hopefully it was bitter. Big game Bob is no more, his juju is waning and his manna is low...too many blunders on the last three big stages we've been on. Three in a row is John Blake territory. People simply come into Norman now and believe they can win. There is no more intimidation factor.

Something just isn't right, I can't put my finger on it but I really think there is some inner strife we are witnessing. Maybe it's just the constant staff disruptions. 4 position coaches in as many years is not the kind of tradition that big time traditions maintain. Look at who is successful and you'll also see staff consistency. Bob needs to shore up the asst position and make it more of a commitment rather than a stepping stone. Hell, I think we miss Jonathan Jackson more than Mike Stoops and for a lot of reasons. "

[StoopTroup]

It starts and ends with Mike Stoops.
I agree with you about losing Mike.

I think it may go deeper than just Mike tough.

Bob came to Norman with some very good / hungry coaches on his Staff.

He has made good on what I'm sure was looked at as a career path for many of them. Leach, Mangino, Long and Mike are all gone. Spurrier - gone. I can't remember right now any others...I'm sure I'm missing someone.

Anyway...in the last 7 years Bob has had to shuffle his staff around quite a bit. I'd like to see that stabilize for a few years and let the staff mature as a unit.

I know new blood can help sometimes but I think there may have just been a little to much of that in this case and now it's beginning to show some.

This is still a Top Ten Program. Any young HS or Jr. College player interested in competing at a high level in Div I Football would be crazy not to consider OU when Bob comes calling for a commitment IMO.

[JohnnyMack]

Ahhhhh, that's more like it. Now there's plenty of room on the bandwagon for me to stretch out my legs and relax a little. All you morons were giving me claustrophobia.

Here's what's changed: expectations.

You were happy with 7-5 in 1999? Why? Maybe because of our record in 1998? You're unhappy with one loss (by one point, on the road, on a couple of bad calls) this year?

Maybe you should go root for Notre Dame. Oh wait, they lost at home yesterday. Looks like USC or Ohio State are your only options - this year. Don't worry, I'll keep your seat on the Sooner Schooner warm so it won't be too uncomfortable when you hop back on later in the year.

I'm the opposite of a bandwagon fan. I see where Triumph is coming from and happen to agree with him. I think it's fallout from success. So much success so fast led to a rapid rate of departure of very talented assistant coaches and allowed us to bring in the vaunted "5 Star" recruit. You know, the one who wants sunshine blown up his *** more than he wants to fight tooth and nail for the Sooner Nation.

The change in chemistry on the coaching staff combined with too many egos is what's causing this.

[usmc-sooner]

To be honest yes I would, and I have felt this way for a while. However like most sooner fanatics, I get a bit emotional and sadly a bit too concerned about a game played by 19 and 20 year olds.

I guess my biggest gripe is that I don't see the freshness and innovation that we saw for so long. I see gameplans that are questionable.

Fact is, take away the hype of the Nike empire, I just don't think that Oregon is that good. We could have and should have beaten them by at least 3 touchdowns. But we didn't.

We didn't not because of blown calls, but because of mental mistakes, lining up wrong, and blowing assignments. Sure mistakes happen, but this is beginning to become a trend. I could live with mistakes last year, young team, blah, blah, blah.

But this team should have been inspired after last year to improve, and quite frankly minus the great play a few individuals, I still see the same mistakes of an undisciplined football team.

Again, please spare me the "bandwagon" comments and the "too young to remember" comments. I'm Sooner fan, but my wife is tired of hearing me bitch, and if I can't bitch here..[Gere] I got no where else to go[gere]

I think you're hitting the nail right on the head.

Maybe I'm spoiled being a kid in the 70's and 80's but I can't recall an OU team as defensively weak as we are today. I know when Stoops came in he said that no one person is bigger than the school, but now we got Nike jersies no one likes. Rumors that a guy who makes more money than most college coaches dream of, is unhappy.

I'm frustrated as well.

[tbl]

Ahhhhh, that's more like it. Now there's plenty of room on the bandwagon for me to stretch out my legs and relax a little. All you morons were giving me claustrophobia.

This kind of crap is ridiculous to me. How come if somebody has something critical to say of the infallible OU program they're labelled as a bandwagon fan? That is completely moronic, and you know it. The second somebody notices a flaw and has the audacity to point it out, they're automatically a troll, nickzep, or bandwagon fan... even though they most likely have suffered through the lows and stayed loyal to the Sooners their entire lives. I'm not saying there aren't bandwagon fans out there (or on here), but to blanket label everybody who says something negative about the fans is completely ignorant.

[PhxSooner]

What concerns me is not so much the coaches themselves, but what appears to be a certain mindset of the assistants. I would love to have coaches stay with OU for more than a year or two, and see their relationship with the school as more than a stepping stone to a head coaching gig. Don't just be a Sooner's coach, be a Sooner.

[usmc-sooner]

This kind of crap is ridiculous to me. How come if somebody has something critical to say of the infallible OU program they're labelled as a bandwagon fan? That is completely moronic, and you know it. The second somebody notices a flaw and has the audacity to point it out, they're automatically a troll, nickzep, or bandwagon fan... even though they most likely have suffered through the lows and stayed loyal to the Sooners their entire lives. I'm not saying there aren't bandwagon fans out there (or on here), but to blanket label everybody who says something negative about the fans is completely ignorant.

I think the guys who just accept the status quo are the bandwagon fans, most don't realize the high expectations that come from OU football program.
Started with Bud, Barry continued it, now Bob is feeding the monster, just like my beloved Corps being average just doesn't cut it.

Why do you think they say "There is only One Oklahoma" probably the same people who say "The Few, The Proud"

That's what separates us Sooners from Cowboys, Cyclones, and all the rest.

[boomrsoonr]

I know when Stoops came in he said that no one person is bigger than the school, but now we got Nike jersies no one likes.


Okay, maybe I just haven't had enough to drink yet. What does that mean?

[usmc-sooner]

Okay, maybe I just haven't had enough to drink yet. What does that mean?

it means you don't screw with tradition, don't change it. Maybe Penn State should throw some radical color scheme in with their uniforms.... or maybe not.

[wishbonesooner]

Bob himself alluded to this before the season started, that players were assuming because we're Oklahoma, that they were owed success.
Think back to how Bob talked in '99. He left Josh in games that were way out of hand, and he never backed down from the media, he said the team needed the reps, all he talked about was how we needed to get better. He rarely talks that way now.
We all talked about how, if we ever got back to the top, that we'd never take winning for granted ever again. I think we have done just that, and I'm afraid our staff has as well.
This is not Fresno State, or Rutgers, or W. Virginia, by God we're Oklahoma, and we should never look like a poorly prepared bunch of pansies on a football field. And that's whether we win or whether we lose.

[boomrsoonr]

it means you don't screw with tradition, don't change it. Maybe Penn State should throw some radical color scheme in with their uniforms.... or maybe not.


:D Do you have any idea how many different versions of uniforms the Sooners have seen over the years? :D:D:D

[boomrsoonr]

.... all he talked about was how we needed to get better. He rarely talks that way now.


He says that every week. Where have you been? :D

[OUinFLA]

Ladies and Gentlemen, allow me to introduce .....
THE MONSTER

All of you have heard of it, many of you have laughed about it, but reread this whole thread and you will experience it.

I have been an OU fan for over 50 years, I have witnessed the 47 game streak, I have experienced the Blake years. In between, there was The King.

Football is THE sport of OU, and we are very lucky to have Coach Stoops heading up the program. In the recent past many of you are bragging on how our coach stepped up and did the right thing by dismissing two talents that we all knew put us in the top 10 as a team. We were all willing to accept that we might not now be a top 10 team with their dismissal, but again, we all agreed that Bob Stoops did the right thing. We all are dissing other coaches around the country who are not doing the right thing about their players actions. Bob Stoops is one of the most ethical and talented coaches in the college level today. How can you bash him? Because of "The Monster". It is legendary.

Stoop's success with our program has led to head coaching jobs at D-I schools for many of his assistants. I dont believe there is another college level program that has provided as many head coaches as ours since 1999. With success on the field, hungry schools come by the masses to get just a part of the coaching package that made that success. Our school pays the price for that attrition. Yep, I would love to have the coaching package that Stoops had in place in 2000. With it, we are top 3 team every year. Without it, we have had to try to find replacements for those coaching positions.

As you review this entire thread, seriously ask yourselves, since 1987, just which coach would you want in charge of your teams future? My answer is still Bob Stoops. Im thrilled that we are not fielding the teams we did in the 90's. I am also expecting to be a top contending team more often than not. I for one will be very sad when Bob leaves. I can only hope he will be here for many years. He's one of the greatest ever.

That's my opinion, and Im sticking to it.

[Ash]

My favorite part of this thread is how one poster says that they've "heard whispers" that Bob's unhappy and you all never question it, just run with it and start spouting off about the man.

Nicely played.

[OklahomaTuba]

Well, the folks on the sports animal seemed to be saying the same thing, as well as other media folks who probably don't know ****.

[Ash]

Be that as it may, I've heard the man himself talk about (answering those media types from the Sports Animal) how people don't understand that you don't just walk away from a job like Oklahoma and they don't understand what a great opportunity this still is for him and much he feels like he has to accomplish here.

Maybe it's all just brickwallin', but I'd rather wait and see where the chips fall then go with unconfirmed gossip.

BTW, who doesn't get sick of the BS that comes with their job once in a while? Doesn't automatically lead to one thing or another.

[OU Adonis]

Since 2003, OU is at a 50% winning percentage vs top 25 competition. Thats pretty sad (6 wins, 6 losses)

We are 1 and 3 vs top 10 competition.

[boomrsoonr]

Since 2003, OU is at a 50% winning percentage vs top 25 competition. Thats pretty sad (6 wins, 6 losses)

We are 1 and 3 vs top 10 competition.


Is that top 25 prior to the game, or after we beat them and knocked them out of the top 25? And top 10?

[OU Adonis]

Is that top 25 prior to the game, or after we beat them and knocked them out of the top 25? And top 10?

Honestly I don't know for sure. I used www.soonerstats.com (http://www.soonerstats.com) as my resource.

[boomrsoonr]

Honestly I don't know for sure. I used www.soonerstats.com (http://www.soonerstats.com) as my resource.


Well, your assertion may be correct. I just wanted to throw that kink in there. ;) We've knocked our fair share of teams out of those catagories over the years.

[bringit]

Mike took Bob's mojo with him to AZ.

[OklahomaTuba]

Mike lost his Mojo as well it seems. Arizona sucks.

[OU Adonis]

Mike lost his Mojo as well it seems. Arizona sucks.

Maybe they are like the wonder twins. They can only work their majiks when they are a team? :D

[TheUnnamedSooner]

I think everyone is over reacting. Come on, Switzer had several seasons in a row with less than 10 wins. This years team reminds me a lot of the '99 team. There is a lot of potential, but the inability or inexperience to put teams away. OU had the ball at the 5 late in the game and kicked a field goal to go up by 13, if they could have punched the ball in for a TD, game over and we all wouldn't be pi$$ed about the calls. Stoops knows what he is doing and the team will learn and get better. IMHO

[Texas Golfer]

In collegiate sports, there is always going to be down times for teams. Student athletes come and go. Some are the best in the business, some aren't quite there. A coach has to use what he has, and try to compete. It should never be implied that a coach can take a group of average athletes and turn them into superhuman, Godlike, beings. Bob can only work with what he has.

Losing the two National Championship games the way we did obviously has hurt some of our recruiting efforts. Maybe that will change. Maybe it won't. Either way, a good coach will take what he has and try to make them better so the team can be competitive. They won't always win. What they do after a loss is a better test of the team and it's leadership.

Bob is a good coach. The Sooners are an average team. Will they always be this way? I doubt it. People need to remove the crimson glasses and take a look at things. Last year was an amazingly successful year considering all the people we lost to graduation. We beat the #6 team in the country in the Holiday Bowl. This year, we'll have to see what happens. We're still a very young team that has a lot of character. Most of that character I contribute to Bob and his staff. We'll be fine.

I don't think he's saying that the quality of the players is different but that the attitude is different. And I must say that I agree with him.

The players we have now are just as talented as the "no names" that shot up the rankings during their improbably October run against ranked opponents on their way to the National Championship. The difference between then and now is attitude.

[8timechamps]

All is right in my world. Back to worrying about not beating teams by 50, or losing a very tough game, in one of the toughest places to play in the country, to a team that was expected to beat us.

How quickly I am reminded of John Blake roaming the sidelines looking for the 10th new QB to put in after the next commercial break.

I love being an OU fan. And for me, things are just right.

As was mentioned earlier, we'll be just fine.

[Texas Golfer]

It all comes down to the QB in my opinion. No leadership in 2005.

This year, we have developing leadership, and thats why we rolled in to Oregon and nearly won the game.

The Defense cost us that game.

The officials cost us that game, not the defense. Our defense held them to 10 points for 50 minutes. Unfortunately, they let up 24 in 10 minutes but the last 14 were "garbage" points in that we were willing to give up 7 to force the onside kick. The final 7 came when our balloon got popped by the officials.

[Texas Golfer]

The trend started downhill after the KSU Big XII championship game.

Which is the time Mike left. When Mike left, it appeared that he took Bob's spirit with him.

[TheUnnamedSooner]

All is right in my world. Back to worrying about not beating teams by 50, or losing a very tough game, in one of the toughest places to play in the country, to a team that was expected to beat us.

How quickly I am reminded of John Blake roaming the sidelines looking for the 10th new QB to put in after the next commercial break.

I love being an OU fan. And for me, things are just right.

As was mentioned earlier, we'll be just fine.

Agreed. Things are great, the team is learning who they are again.

[PhilTLL]

It is heartbreaking to not be in the title talk and be considered an elite powerhouse like we used to be two years ago. But I guess that's just the way things are right now. :(

Fixed for perspective. SO spoiled are we.

[Texas Golfer]

Many are interpreting the statement that something is different to mean that Stoops needs to be gone. Nobody is saying that!

By saying "something is different" is a feeling that they've admitted they can't put their finger on. But it doesn't mean that it isn't there.

I agree that something is different. I think it's the attitude of the team starting with Stoops and working down to the trainers. I think their attitude is different and it may have something to do with all of the great coaches that have left not necessarity the great players that have left.

[Tiptonsooner]

This team is learning how to fight and when I say team, I mean the coaches as a unit too. They are all learning how to play together and feed off of one another. We have had too much talent moving in and out on the coaching staff also. As with the OL, when this "whole" team gels, I believe we will see great things.

I admit this is a Crimson tinted view, but I have never seen anything another way....

[recruiter]

Good thread that raises a very legitimate issue.

My point: There's a very, very fine line between arrogance and overconfidence, and I believe arrogance has damaged this program.

We've been totally unprepared to play in two HUGE games: 2003 Kansas State, 2005 Orange Bowl against USC.

We were totally unprepared to start the 2005 season, with several players in wrong places, etc.

And now, the question must be raised about the 2006 fall practices: Are we so hyper-sensitive to injuries that we're not hitting enough?

Bob Stoops is a great football coach. He's also quite prone, IMHO, to becoming a tad too big for his britches. Maybe it's time for him to put his ego in his back pocket and start coaching football again.

[jdsooner]

Can't agree. We played a hell of a game Saturday and we won that game.

[Ash]

Good thread that raises a very legitimate issue.

My point: There's a very, very fine line between arrogance and overconfidence, and I believe arrogance has damaged this program.

We've been totally unprepared to play in two HUGE games: 2003 Kansas State, 2005 Orange Bowl against USC.

We were totally unprepared to start the 2005 season, with several players in wrong places, etc.

And now, the question must be raised about the 2006 fall practices: Are we so hyper-sensitive to injuries that we're not hitting enough?

Bob Stoops is a great football coach. He's also quite prone, IMHO, to becoming a tad too big for his britches. Maybe it's time for him to put his ego in his back pocket and start coaching football again.

heh. kinda like the fine line between anger and being mad? :rolleyes:

I think you're right. Obviously, Stoops is so confident that he's just a big ol' bad *** that he canceled practice this spring and fall. Now the cat's out of the bag.

LMAO

[pardine]

Great thread!!! I have to admit it that the Sooners, I enjoy watching is to conservative on both sides of the ball. I wish they were more aggressive and not drag the games out like they have been doing the last few years. Open up the playbook on offense and get the swagger back on defense. It’s also time to hire a special team coach on the staff. The last few years the Sooners last minute or crucial Field Goal attempts are getting block.

gigglestunes (https://www.burnlounge.com/gigglestunes)

[Ash]

I'll just say this: while not everything said in this thread is stupid, this has to (collectively) be one of the greatest concentrations of stupid posts this board has ever seen.

And with that, I'll bow out and hope this thread finds its way to page two and beyond as quickly as it appeared.

[budbarrybob]

I'm not happy with the outcome of the game not to put too fine a point on it. I did think that however in bob's early years he would have gone for a fake field goal instead of the try to put us up by 13. That being said in the "early years" he had something to prove.

I have only one feeling about the game.. disgust. But it is focused on ourselves as well as the officiating (or lack thereof). Officiating? enough has been said already. OU? Can anyone?? ANYONE??? not know how the last minutes would play out if things went ORYGUNs way? quick passes, short routes. Taking what their giving. Score quick then onside kick? recover score another TD quick? What was OUs response??? complete and utter failure. ---- THATS what kicks me the hardest and makes me just as mad as the poor officiating. OK so the call was blown but if it was really a sucessful onside kick... GAME OVER based on how we played from there on out... yes, yes the tipped pass and all. a more forgiveable call (still a bad one). But the defense was horrible stopping them. Lets not forget that they stopped themselves on 3 series with turnovers.

Bob, IMHO, has done and is continuing to do an excellent job. No program can continue to stay at the pinnacle forever and we had our ride at the top for a good long while. OU has dropped no further than most programs that have seen this cycle. USC will drop as well have no fear.

IF WE ARE TO CAST BLAME I WOULD SAY IT HAS TO FALL SQUARELY ON THE SHOULDERS OF THE horsepigs. 2 years of horsepigs/2 years subpar win-loss. end of story

[couchman]

The difference is the defense.

In 2001 the Sooner D gave up 15 ppg.

Last year the D gave up 23 ppg!!!

So far this year they're giving up almost 24ppg.

[cschellman]

I really believe that OU's problem (and someone touched on this earlier) is the Defensive coaching staff. Brent Venables was an awesome linebackers coach in 2000-2001. Mike Stoops was Defensive Coordinator then, but he also excelled at coaching DBs and spent most of his time with them, having been one himself in college. Mike Stoops' departure opened the door for Venables to be Def. Coordinator, but I think he should still be coaching what he coaches best: LBs. When you have a coaching specialist, you really should keep them doing what they do best. OU always gets great talent, but you have to coach it really well these days, and that has led to teams having larger coaching staffs. Steve Spurrier Jr. turned a bunch of players from different positions into one of the top receiving corps in the country in 1999 and 2000 at OU because he was a WR specialist and only had that duty to focus on. Remember all the stories about how good our WRs were, about how they came out of nowhere, and they trained by catching tennis balls at over 100 mph? When he left, he wasn't replaced. I would bet that part of the training regimen went with him.

OU's coaching staff was considered huge when Stoops took the reigns of the program, and alarmingly, he hasn't been replacing people after staff departures. He just adds duties to the other guys who are already there. By doing this, I think our coaches are spread a little thin. I think that it's the luxury of the specialist-coaches that really fine-tunes a team to a championship level. It's not coincidence that Texas just won a NC last year. They responed to Stoops' large staff after a few years of getting their butts handed to them in a row, and they answered with some staff additions of their own when they figured out the answer.

The thing that is missing from the "Stoops Era" today is the large staff that specializes in all facets of the game and has the time to go over each position in detail with its players. Bob Stops is still the top coach in the land imho, but simply promoting a LB coach to DEF Coordinator (Venables) or a QB coach to OFF coordinator (Long) isn't always the answer.

neg me if you want, but this is what I have observed and what I believe.

BOOMER

[Triumph]

I wanted to bump this thread. We are at about the same point this year as when this thread was started last year. I know it is a long season and we haven't even played Texas yet, but is it safe to say things have changed, especially attitude?

[Scott D]

I wanted to bump this thread. We are at about the same point this year as when this thread was started last year. I know it is a long season and we haven't even played Texas yet, but is it safe to say things have changed, especially attitude?

nah, pretty sure there are still a lot of fans that are jackasses.

[Animal Mother]

nah, pretty sure there are still a lot of fans that are jackasses.

Extremely accurate and well said.

[jkjsooner]

I wanted to bump this thread. We are at about the same point this year as when this thread was started last year. I know it is a long season and we haven't even played Texas yet, but is it safe to say things have changed, especially attitude?

Wow, I started reading this thread from the beginning and did not look at the dates of the posts. :confused: I couldn't believe what I was reading and that many of the replies agreed with the original post. For a second I seriously questioned my sanity or whether someone slipped some nasty stuff in my drink.

[Jacie]

Another fan's 2-cents worth:

The Sooner program took the big hit when The King resigned. The program began to spiral down till it reached the low water mark under John Blake. Enter Bob Stoops who in a shorter time than anyone in college football thought possible, took Oklahoma all the way to the top and has kept the Sooners in contention most of the years since . . . despite loss of key assistants and players for reasons that don't need to be rehashed here.

Now the myth was always that, like Sooner Magic. No one really believes magic is what allowed Switzer to beat Osborne all those times, but it sounds cool.

Stoops did return the swagger that Oklahoma had many years under Switzer and yes, with success means that any loss(es) are going to be unexpected and huge. If it seems Stoops has lost some of the "it" that made him successful, perhaps it is from the backlash, and this I do believe in, that he has experienced from the rest of the football community. The officiating that resulted in two losses is a manifestation of this. While my opinion is Sooner-biased, I maintain that getting jobbed in Lubbock and Eugene was pure jealousy for Stoop's success on the field. I am not claiming conspiracy, just that the perception of one. Stoops had to have reflected on these two games and realize that if it comes down to an official's call, it is going to go against him no matter what the replay shows. That has to have had an effect, along with the criticism following two lost National Championship games. The wonder is not that Stoops has gone conservative but that inspite of everything, he still has Oklahoma contending for championships.

Now Stoops doesn't have any control over other teams. If the Big XII overall is down, it isn't his fault. What he can do is continue to field a winning team. He is earning his paycheck because that is what he is doing. It's too bad he only has one National Championship out of three tries but I seem to remember Switzer missed out one or two during his tenure. Not that many schools have even played in championship game and now the Sooners have a legitimate shot at making it that far again. So if the "it" Stoops had was lost, I think he is getting some of "it" back this year.

[85Sooner]

I love the way we have played this year, but I still want to see a victory in a BCS bowl before I believe we are all taht and a bag of chips. That said, its is still great watching this teams performance in all aspects of the game

1999 L in bowl
2000 W in BCS Bowl Natl Titl game
2001 W in BCS Rose bowl
2002 W in Cotton Bowl.
2003 L in BCS Natl Title Game
2004 L in BCS Natl Title game
2005 W in Holiday Bowl
2006 L in BCS Bowl
2007 ???????????

[stoopified]

Put down the crackpipe.We have won 82.6 % of OUr games under Stoops,4 conference and 1 national title.We are hot on the trail of National Title #8.Even great coaches and programs have peaks and valleys.If our VALLEY is 8-4,you can't ask for much more.This of course does not include 1999in which Bon turned a team that been 12-22 in three seasons prior to his arrival into a bowl team and a 7-5 record.

[birddog]

people still say "all that and a bag of chips." ?

[Stitch Face]

people still say "all that and a bag of chips." ?

Fo shizzle!

[stoopified]

Jut to add to my earlier post,IF 8-4 is Bob's worst team that puts him ahead of Bud(3-6-1 in 1960),and Barry(7-4-1in 1981).To put this in further perspective,Barry and Bud are the #4 and 10 all-time winningest coaches in NCAA history by %.

[tulsaoilerfan]

Jut to add to my earlier post,IF 8-4 is Bob's worst team that puts him ahead of Bud(3-6-1 in 1960),and Barry(7-4-1in 1981).To put this in further perspective,Barry and Bud are the #4 and 10 all-time winningest coaches in NCAA history by %.
Yup, and i don't think there's any argument that the Sooners of today play a helluva lot tougher teams than Bud and Barry did; not knocking them at all, but there are far more quality teams now than there were even 20 years ago.

[OUinFLA]

Im much happier with the way this year is playing out as compared to the year we went 0-4.


oh, wait, that is the year we p(L)ayed the NCAA.

The Monster Lives!
:D

[Ground_Attack]

Wow, I started reading this thread from the beginning and did not look at the dates of the posts. :confused: I couldn't believe what I was reading and that many of the replies agreed with the original post. For a second I seriously questioned my sanity or whether someone slipped some nasty stuff in my drink.

same here. my jaw was on the floor for a few minutes until I checked the date!

[Sooner1979]

I am sick and tired of the fair weather fans this site has...I have had argument over argument about Stoops over the last several years. He is the best thing this football team could have possibly expected to have and will have for the next 20 years...Coaches of his magnitude do not come around everyday, or even every decade...I still stand by that I would rather have Stoops at the reigns than any other coach over the last 20 years...Pete Carroll has an incredible recruiting advantage...Even if he wasnt a good coach, all he has to do is show the campus and its location and people are interested...Norman is a great town for a college town, but zero advantage other than football...Stoops has done an incredible job and will go down as one of the Best Coaches of all time if the fair weather fans dont call for his head after he produces a National Championship calliber team for essentially the last 7 years...

[Widescreen]

No one really believes magic is what allowed Switzer to beat Osborne all those times, but it sounds cool.
You were doing well until you said that. Now you have no credibility. I've personally seen angels and elves pushing wounded duck passes into Keith Jackson's hands for wins against NU.