HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray peeps [Archive] - SoonerFans.com Message Boards

Frozen Sooner

9/17/2006, 11:51 AM

So, I'm really really thinking about buying the Toshiba HD-DVD player today. Like a lot. All the reviews I'm reading are saying that right now HD-DVD is the superior format-at least until BluRay gets dual-layer manufacturing right.

Is anyone reading anything else? 85, I know you're a big Sony guy, but which format do you think is going to continue forward?

OCUDad

9/17/2006, 05:28 PM

This is like deciding whether to buy Betamax or VHS back in the day, isn't it? For Blu-Ray, think Sony. For HD-DVD, think Toshiba. All depends on who you think will win. For what it's worth, the companies listed as Members of the Board for Blu-Ray are Apple, Dell, H-P, Hitachi, LG, Mitsubishi, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Samsung, Sharp, Sony, TDK, Thomson, 20th Century Fox, and Walt Disney. That same list for HD-DVD is Memory-Tech, NEC, and Sanyo.

As far as I know, there's no equipment capable of playing both formats (somebody correct me if they know different). Unless money isn't an issue and you're prepared to throw away the machine if the other format becomes the "standard," I'd hold off. I suppose it's also possible both formats will become "standard" and we'll be faced with dual equipment (a la XM/Sirius) forever, or at least till the next technology leap.

Frozen Sooner

9/17/2006, 06:20 PM

Yeah, it kind of is.

BluRay is the technically superior technology and has a higher ceiling, I think. It's also significantly more expensive.

After reading all the reviews and projections, I'm thinking that if only one standard survives, it's going to be HD-DVD-simply because Microsoft is supporting it and it's less expensive.

I think both will likely survive until gigabit transfer rates are practical-at which point it's not going to be such a deal anymore, as everything will be on demand anyhow.

(And I went ahead and bought the darn thing. Watching Serenity on it right now. It looks amazing.)

Widescreen

9/17/2006, 07:50 PM

(And I went ahead and bought the darn thing. Watching Serenity on it right now. It looks amazing.)
What kind of TV are you viewing on? Are you using component or HDMI connections?

Frozen Sooner

9/17/2006, 07:53 PM

42" Panasonic Plasma.

Using HDMI, since a cable came out of the box and I wanted to make sure that I could watch flagged discs.

49r

9/17/2006, 08:05 PM

I got a 42" HP (LG) plasma a few weeks ago myself.

I've discovered a new appreciation for baseball on TV now. ESPNHD rocks!

I'll wait on Blu-Ray/HD-DVD until the format shakes out and/or prices go down. I guess I'm doomed to silly 'ol 480P DVD's for now! (Which still rock, BTW)

jrsooner

9/17/2006, 08:08 PM

Is anyone reading anything else? 85, I know you're a big Sony guy, but which format do you think is going to continue forward?I'm waiting for at least a year. Both are supposed to be backward compatible, so you won't lose your $$ spent on DVDs purchased now.

My thoughts on it. Even though Disney is behind Blue-Ray, you think they are going to give up the business by only selling one format? If you see a surge in HDDVDs then Disney will start publishing them in both formats. I bet we'll also see the standard "New Format Star Trek" dvds. :)

I've heard that Toshiba is undercutting their profits to get the HDDVD format into the homes quicker. I think this is the key point. Whoever gets the households first, wins the war. My kids want a PS3 when they come out, I told them no way am I spending all that cash for a gaming system. That's an added bonus for Sony that they are using it in the PS3, but I don't think in the long run it's going to make much difference. If Sony can't get the price down to a cost that most people can afford, then it's going to shoot themselves in the foot.

As I said, I'm waiting for about a year, and wait for the dust to settle, to see who to give serious consideration to.

49r

9/17/2006, 08:43 PM

My thoughts on it. Even though Disney is behind Blue-Ray, you think they are going to give up the business by only selling one format? If you see a surge in HDDVDs then Disney will start publishing them in both formats.

I doubt it.

Since Steve Jobs is on the board at Disney, Apple supports Blu-Ray, and Microsoft doesn't.

My guess is Jobs will do anything he can to stick it to Microsoft, and this will be one of the battles he now has a legit shot at winning against them. Blu-Ray has some powerful support behind it.

slickdawg

9/17/2006, 09:43 PM

I'd hold off and let this settle itself before I invested one cent in the technology.

SoonerWood

9/17/2006, 09:58 PM

I've got an HD-DVD player and it's another nice leap in technology. One interesting thing I noticed was how CGI seperates a bit more from the real stuff because you are seeing so much more detail. Kinda makes some less-than-great CGI look a little more fakey. heh

badger

9/17/2006, 10:09 PM

Wait until the technology develops a bit more before putting down your dough.

Norm In Norman

9/17/2006, 10:16 PM

Honestly, I think there will end up being another format that will win out. Somebody is going to take the strengths of both formats and come up with something even better.

Well, OK, I hope that happens,

skycat

9/18/2006, 09:20 AM

There's no reason they can't build dual technology players. Costs will be higher due having to licensce both technologies. But while I'm still betting on HD-DVD, as I've written on here before, I'm not willing to bet a few hundred bucks on it right now.

Hatfield

9/18/2006, 09:41 AM

something else will probably come along and render both obsolete in 6 months. :)

Beef

9/18/2006, 09:57 AM

I started hiring dwarfs to act out movies at my house. Kinda expensive, but better than messing with those other formats.

OCUDad

9/18/2006, 09:59 AM

I started hiring dwarfs to act out movies at my house. Kinda expensive, but better than messing with those other formats.What dwarf format do you use?

Beef

9/18/2006, 10:07 AM

Betadwarf. I doubt it's going to last, though.

85Sooner

9/18/2006, 10:16 AM

As far as the tale goes at this point. It is pretty much agreed that the adult film industry is the group that will be the determining factor in whether one will win out over the other. That said, there really is no reason for the Adult industry to adopt either one. (they are making billions as it is) why spend more on HD cameras, processing etc...

I believe they release both formats before they were ready due to the fact that their window is going to be closing quickly. We klnow that companies are already trying to stream video on demand. The sooner this comes to fruition means that your dvd's of all sorts will become like laserdiscs. (dinosaurs if you will). I agree on holding off at this point. If electronics is your hobby, then by all means dive in but as a mainstream product, the jury is still out.

Does that make sense?

Norm In Norman

9/18/2006, 10:30 AM

Well, I don't think the DVD and laserdisc things are quite the same thing, but I see what you are saying. There weren't NEAR the same number of laserdisc users (or movies) as there are DVD users (and movies). Shoot, I wouldn't be surprised if both HD formats end up being like laserdiscs. You'll probably know some people who bought them, but they never caught on like they should have.

skycat

9/18/2006, 10:41 AM

That said, there really is no reason for the Adult industry to adopt either one. (they are making billions as it is) why spend more on HD cameras, processing etc...

I disagree with this. Not just for pron in particular, but for all content in general. This is just like saying that people would never need to upgrade to HDTV in the first place. Or to Pentiums from 486s. Or any other tech upgrade issue.

One company will (or for all I know already has) do it because it will be a differentiator for them. Then to keep up, others will jump on. The only question is whether it will happen before some different HD technology matures and makes this question moot.

Frozen Sooner

9/18/2006, 10:51 AM

I kinda agree with 85 on the adult industry, as it happens. I don't think there's enough gain to be made with high-definition porn as opposed to 480p porn to justify the extra expense-and I don't think consumers will spend the extra money on the discs.

'Cause frankly, 480p porn is pretty skeevy to begin with, especially on a 42" screen.

(Rattle and Hum also looks and sounds amazing on HD-DVD.)

skycat

9/18/2006, 10:57 AM

The exact same argument could be made for your sci-fi extravaganza.

Never bet against pervs looking for incremental improvement in the appearance of their skanks.

Frozen Sooner

9/18/2006, 10:59 AM

You're assuming something about my character you probably shouldn't.

:D

skycat

9/18/2006, 11:12 AM

You're assuming something about my character you probably shouldn't.

:D

But you bought an HD-DVD.:hot: You're making my point!!:texan:

85Sooner

9/18/2006, 11:14 AM

I disagree with this. Not just for pron in particular, but for all content in general. This is just like saying that people would never need to upgrade to HDTV in the first place. Or to Pentiums from 486s. Or any other tech upgrade issue.

One company will (or for all I know already has) do it because it will be a differentiator for them. Then to keep up, others will jump on. The only question is whether it will happen before some different HD technology matures and makes this question moot.

Disagree away, but your arguement doesn't hold water. HD did not come along because of market driven forces. It was legislated and dictated in the FCA of 1996.

As far as computers go, The need for faster processors is predicated by the software manufacturers. You can't run Windows 2000, or XP on a pentium 1 66mhz machine, you must have a faster one.

If you were a pron producer, why would you spend thousands of dollars to upgrade your current equipment, ( which is just fine) with higher resolution equipment. You are not going to make more profit. You will just have higher costs. Thus no motivation to make any changes anytime soon. By the time it happens, video on demand will be a reality and you will be able to download the high resolution films without the need for a new 500-1000$ player.

Just my opinion

Frozen Sooner

9/18/2006, 11:16 AM

But you bought an HD-DVD.:hot: You're making my point!!:texan:

Well, sure. I bought an HD-DVD, but I didn't buy any pr0n. In fact, I haven't bought any DVD-based pr0n at all.

I've got a high-speed connection. Pr0n and "buy" don't really enter into any meaningful equation. :D

skycat

9/18/2006, 11:48 AM

Disagree away, but your arguement doesn't hold water. HD did not come along because of market driven forces. It was legislated and dictated in the FCA of 1996.

As far as computers go, The need for faster processors is predicated by the software manufacturers. You can't run Windows 2000, or XP on a pentium 1 66mhz machine, you must have a faster one.

If you were a pron producer, why would you spend thousands of dollars to upgrade your current equipment, ( which is just fine) with higher resolution equipment. You are not going to make more profit. You will just have higher costs. Thus no motivation to make any changes anytime soon. By the time it happens, video on demand will be a reality and you will be able to download the high resolution films without the need for a new 500-1000$ player.

Just my opinion

If the perceived need to upgrade all manner of products technologically didn't exist (from washing machines, to toasters, to braking systems, to thermostats, to cameras, to computer mice, to you name it it's there), I wouldn't have a job.

In the market, the "my technology is just fine" company fails, with few (but admitedly real) exceptions.

And like I said, there is a decent chance that some other technology will come along and steal the show before either of these two formats mature.

85Sooner

9/18/2006, 12:01 PM

If the perceived need to upgrade all manner of products technologically didn't exist (from washing machines, to toasters, to braking systems, to thermostats, to cameras, to computer mice, to you name it it's there), I wouldn't have a job.

In the market, the "my technology is just fine" company fails, with few (but admitedly real) exceptions.

And like I said, there is a decent chance that some other technology will come along and steal the show before either of these two formats mature.

I agree with the word "percieved". In this case the changes are not percieved but rather necessity. Any way I see your point.

mrowl

9/18/2006, 01:37 PM

I think blue-ray will win out, simply because of the gaming market.

blue-ray and HDDVD may end of being a storage, and backup device.

RIGHT NOW, you can download and store movies. In a few months, you will be able to download HD content from iTunes. Yes it will take forever, but in the next couple of years, that will improve.

Vaevictis

9/18/2006, 06:02 PM

blue-ray and HDDVD may end of being a storage, and backup device.

Maybe in the near term, but not in the long term. Disk formats tend to last a long time, and it won't be too long before hard drives are in the terabyte range.

Backing up one device to 40 disks is just not going to work. Hell, even right now there are hard drives in the 500GB range; that's 20 blue-ray disks right there.

It'll be used for delivering movies, *possibly* backing up mp3s and lower-res movies, and delivering video games. But as a wide-use backup solution, no way.

Frozen Sooner

9/20/2006, 12:47 AM

So hey, nothing better than sitting down and watching The Dukes of Hazzard.

In 1080i.

Which, really, is kind of strange that this movie is on HD-DVD. The selection thus far for both formats is pretty weak sauce.

49r

9/20/2006, 11:16 AM

If the perceived need to upgrade all manner of products technologically didn't exist (from washing machines, to toasters, to braking systems, to thermostats, to cameras, to computer mice, to you name it it's there), I wouldn't have a job.

In the market, the "my technology is just fine" company fails, with few (but admitedly real) exceptions.

And like I said, there is a decent chance that some other technology will come along and steal the show before either of these two formats mature.

Sorry if it's been discussed ad-nauseum, but if the Oregon game was broadcast in HD, do you think the outcome would be different?

85Sooner

9/20/2006, 02:32 PM

Sorry if it's been discussed ad-nauseum, but if the Oregon game was broadcast in HD, do you think the outcome would be different?

I have to say I considered that. however the video was clear enough for ray charles to see it.

JudgeU

9/20/2006, 03:23 PM

I think blue-ray will win out, simply because of the gaming market.

I agree, I believe the winner will be decided by the gaming industry. Although, I'm not sure who will win out in the end. Microsoft/xbox have a big advantage on titles, availability, and price while sony/ps3 have the better hardware.

Backing up one device to 40 disks is just not going to work. Hell, even right now there are hard drives in the 500GB range; that's 20 blue-ray disks right there.
If I remember correctly HD-DVD has about 80gigs of storage where the blue-ray has +200gb.

Taxman71

9/20/2006, 03:30 PM

I think the winner will be whoever can produce a machine for under $300 with supported movie titles. Haven't seen it yet. HD on demand may just wipe out both of them.

Oh, and pron in 3-D is the bomb.

Vaevictis

9/20/2006, 03:42 PM

If I remember correctly HD-DVD has about 80gigs of storage where the blue-ray has +200gb.

Blue-ray == ~27GB per layer.
HD-DVD == ~15GB per layer.

Single layer discs are already available for both. Dual layer I know is available for HD-DVD, I don't think for Blue-ray yet, but it's probable that it will be available in very short order. (EDIT: Blue-ray dual layer burners are indeed shipping now, so I stand corrected on that point.)

The 200GB version you speak of is *six* layers. I doubt that will be available commercially any time soon, if ever. Even if it is, hard drive capacity increases much, much faster than optical drive capacity and will leave the optical technology in the dust sooner than later.

IMO, no optical disc technology is currently suitable for large scale backups, nor is it ever likely to be when considered with respect to magnetic discs of the same time period.