Powell oposes Bushes plan, what's your take?

[usmc-sooner]

First I'll say I don't know myself. I have a lot of respect for both men. Next I don't like the whole jumping the chain of command. I know that's not Powell's role anymore but I guess all I can say is I don't know.

[Scott D]

clearly Powell is a dirty lib now right? ;)

[Hatfield]

they have a difference of opinion.

ywia

[OklahomaTuba]

Which plan does he oppose???

I'll take what Powell says any day of the week. That dude is has my total respect.

[usmc-sooner]

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a/senate-panel-defies-bush-on-detainee/20060913233409990014?ncid=NWS00010000000001

[Sooner in Tampa]

Which plan does he oppose???

I'll take what Powell says any day of the week. That dude is has my total respect.I respect the hell out of Colin Powell, but to say that any modifications to a plan would put our troops at risk is B.S.
Our kids are already being killed, torutured, beheaded, and heinously disfigured already.

I am not really sure what is in the Presidents plan that he opposes, but I would really like to see prior to passing judgement on either side.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

I can honestly say that Colin Powell is someone I really respect. If he says this endangers the troops, I have to take his word for it because I don't see Colin Powell saying ANYTHING with political motives. He has seen how politics can kill our young men first hand. I always slept better knowing Colin Powell was in Bush's cabinet..now I don't sleep as well.

[Hatfield]

I can honestly say that Colin Powell is someone I really respect. If he says this endangers the troops, I have to take his word for it because I don't see Colin Powell saying ANYTHING with political motives. He has seen how politics can kill our young men first hand. I always slept better knowing Colin Powell was in Bush's cabinet..now I don't sleep as well.

while i agree that powell is well deserving of respect. (i hold tremendous amount of respect for him) the comment that you don't see him saying anything with political motives......


http://stuarthughes.blogspot.com/powell-anthrax.jpg

but i also haven't looked into what he is talking about and respect him enough to give him the benefit of the doubt until i do have time to look into it.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Well I will probably get lambasted but I honestly feel that Colin Powell quit the cabinet because he trusted in the intelligence he was given and he was embarrassed by the fact the intelligence appears on a certain level to be wrong.

[Hatfield]

i don't totally disagree with that.

[Sooner in Tampa]

Gandalf...there is probably some truth to that.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

McCain, Warner, and Lindsay Graham are fighting the Pres. as well. If they prevail, it severely hampers our ability to conduct the war. But, I think that's what they want.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

A) Our inability to control conflicting sects of a religion serves as the biggest threat to the safety of our troops in Iraq.
B) The war on terror, lets face it, our troops are going to get the info they need regardless of if this bill passes or not.

[OklahomaTuba]

Its probably a good idea to re-visit the Geneva Convention anyways, since we are fighting a new type of war.

Remember that the GC was written for 20th century warfare, not 21st century warfare where guys with box cutters can wreck havoc on the world.

I saw this and it hits everything spot on...


This debate, once again, is being driven more by politics than by any real concern for the defense of America. The language is vague. (http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/lawofwar/geneva03.htm#art3) Islamic terrorist groups wage a type of warfare vastly different from the wars of the 20th century, when the Conventions were written. They have identified the weaknesses in our relatively civilized conduct of battle, and are ruthlessly exploiting those weaknesses. It makes no sense to cling to outmoded language about “outrages upon personal dignity” when faced with an enemy that videotapes and broadcasts beheadings.

It’s a curious hypocrisy that many of those who seem to regard the Geneva Conventions as immutable, written in stone, are the same ones who constantly seek to redefine and reinterpret the US Constitution.

[OklahomaTuba]

Well I will probably get lambasted but I honestly feel that Colin Powell quit the cabinet because he trusted in the intelligence he was given and he was embarrassed by the fact the intelligence appears on a certain level to be wrong.

I believe he has said exactly that on several occasions. Plus, he seems to hate politics.

But damn, he would be a good guy to have in the White House I think.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Our beloved Senator McCain could well be the catalyst for getting a nanny-stater elected POTUS in '08.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Powell was a staff puke.Just another RINO. Don't really know why he was a republican. Anybody know the reasons?

[OklahomaTuba]

Just another RINO. Don't really know why he was a republican. Anybody know the reasons?
Probably the same reason most military people are republicans.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Probably the same reason most military people are republicans.Can't see him as POTUS. Don't think he wants to be, either.

[bri]

Just another RINO.

Wait, Colin Powell is Ryne Sandberg?

Man, the color on my TV must have been WAY off back when I used to watch Cubs games...

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Wait, Colin Powell is Ryne Sandberg?

Man, the color on my TV must have been WAY off back when I used to watch Cubs games...TeeHee

[Vaevictis]

Can't see him as POTUS. Don't think he wants to be, either.

IIRC, they tried to get him to run last time. From what I've read, his wife wants absolutely no part of it, nor does he really want it enough to try to convince her otherwise.


First I'll say I don't know myself. I have a lot of respect for both men. Next I don't like the whole jumping the chain of command. I know that's not Powell's role anymore but I guess all I can say is I don't know.

Even if it was Powell's role, is it really jumping the chain of command if he's voicing an opinion on a bill that's being debated in Congress?

I always figured that every citizen -- even those in the military on active duty -- has a right to lobby the President and/or Congress, so long as they don't disclose things that shouldn't be disclosed or misuse their office in that pursuit.

[SoonerProphet]

http://www.nationalinterest.org/BlogSE.aspx

[jk the sooner fan]

Just another RINO. Don't really know why he was a republican. Anybody know the reasons?

because he rose up thru the ranks under a GOP administration.... i never thought he was a true republican which is why he'd have a hard time winning the nomination for the party....socially he leans a little left.......fiscally and on defense, he's conservative

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

My favorite thing is how the Dims are "Dims" because they ate Lieberman alive for being too central. And then watch how Favor eats McCain alive because he is too central. It's funny how the dims are so out of touch with their handling of Lieberman but how oh so right the Republicans are with handling McCain.

[bri]

Dude, all logic is gonna do is make him type in all caps.

[royalfan5]

I've never trusted Powell because of the way he pronounces his first name.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

I don't trust Bush because he calls tall people "Stretch" If you watch Lost, Sawyer the reluctant baddie gives everyone nicknames!

[OklahomaTuba]

http://www.nationalinterest.org/BlogSE.aspx

One of the quotes from your link...

If the United States makes it acceptable to use “alternative techniques” against enemy combatants, it is a no-brainer that American soldiers and even ordinary Americans living abroad would be in great peril.
Tell that to the 3000 ordinary Americans Slaughtered while working in the World Trade Centers and in the Pentagon, and the travelers in the 4 planes that were hijacked on Sept. 11th, 2001.

And tell that to the Sailors on the USS Coal, or the folks working in the US Embassy's in Africa, or the Madrid's train station, or in Bali the first, second and third time the place was bombed, etc.

But heavens no, lets not keep a couple of guys uncomfortable for a little while. Then we become just like the terrorists.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

First of all, the way the Departments totally ignored each other plus the fact that we are firing Arabic translaters for being gay so we didn't have enough to decipher key documents were more of the route causes of 9/11 than the lack of sticking electrical devices to men's junk. So let's get this straight. The wussifying of Military and INtelligence...Bill Clinton saving money..Bill's fault. People being so damm conservative that they are willing to sacrifice qualified people because of where they stick their penis...I am going to go out on a limb and blame the Right since the Left doesn't seem to care.

[bri]

REMEMBER THE ALAMO!!!!!!!!

[OklahomaTuba]

Another laugher...


No improved homeland security procedures, no tighter screening of airline passengers, or even better examination of containers at American ports, can compensate for turning millions of Muslims into America’s enemies. Yet President Bush is proposing another step in that direction.
Oh no, they might start coming after us!

Umm, hate to break it to Dimitri, but millions of Muslims are already America's enemy, THEY ALREADY HATE US!!!!!

Its like the guy's been asleep the last 10 years and didn't notice that or something.

[OklahomaTuba]

First of all, the way the Departments totally ignored each other plus the fact that we are firing Arabic translaters for being gay so we didn't have enough to decipher key documents were more of the route causes of 9/11 than the lack of sticking electrical devices to men's junk. So let's get this straight. The wussifying of Military and INtelligence...Bill Clinton saving money..Bill's fault. People being so damm conservative that they are willing to sacrifice qualified people because of where they stick their penis...I am going to go out on a limb and blame the Right since the Left doesn't seem to care.
I KNEW the gays were responsible for 9/11.

We need a new investigation, NOW! Find that loosechange video dude, we's gots a video to make.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

I think you misread....the RIGHT is more responsible since they want to make a big deal out of it someone's sexual orientation when the 40 or so gay Arabic translators that have been discharged might have been able to process all the intell but we would rather be safe from the Homo threat than the Arab threat.

[Vaevictis]

The problem isn't that there are people who don't adhere to the Geneva Conventions. That is a well known problem.

The problem is that there are people who do adhere to the Geneva Conventions, and if we stop doing so, they may no longer feel the need to adhere with respect to our troops or citizens.

Additionally, in failing to adhere to the Geneva Conventions, we are potentially exposing our troops to war crimes prosecution in the future. Follow such orders today, get arrested/kidnapped while abroad tomorrow.

*shrug*

[mdklatt]

But heavens no, lets not keep a couple of guys uncomfortable for a little while. Then we become just like the terrorists.

Why do you hate Vietnam War POWs?

[LosAngelesSooner]

Well I will probably get lambasted but I honestly feel that Colin Powell quit the cabinet because he trusted in the intelligence he was given and he was embarrassed by the fact the intelligence appears on a certain level to be wrong.
I agree with that...

[Jerk]

Rush Limbaugh explained this very well today.

Geneva language is very vague, thus our interrogators don't know what they can and can't do. Bush is asking Congress to define this, so that the interrogators won't risk being prosecuted for war crimes.

That's what I got out of it.

[jk the sooner fan]

Powell also retired when Clinton took office, large in part to his disagreement over the "dont ask, dont tell" policy....so it stands to reason as a man of principle, he would have left the Bush administration for like reasons

[mdklatt]

Geneva language is very vague

That's because they speak both French and German in Switzerland.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

My favorite thing is how the Dims are "Dims" because they ate Lieberman alive for being too central. And then watch how Favor eats McCain alive because he is too central. It's funny how the dims are so out of touch with their handling of Lieberman but how oh so right the Republicans are with handling McCain.It is funny, but since the dims are usually wrong about most things, it's more sad for the country than funny. The importance to the Dims of their opposition to the war effort became very clear with the Connecticutt Dim primary. Their former VP candidate loses the primary because he's for fighting the terrorists where they live. Dims and RINOS don't want America to succeed. It's becoming clearer to the general populace, everyday.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

because he rose up thru the ranks under a GOP administration.... i never thought he was a true republican which is why he'd have a hard time winning the nomination for the party....socially he leans a little left.......fiscally and on defense, he's conservativeWhat makes you say he's fiscally and militarily conservative?

[jk the sooner fan]

What makes you say he's fiscally and militarily conservative?

from some of the things he's said in the past.......in fact, i think he once described himself as a fiscal conservative and social liberal....or something like that

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Do you honestly think John McCain wants America to not succeed.

[OCUDad]

Do you honestly thinkFixed.

[Jerk]

Fixed.

Did you make yourself giggle like a girl with that one?

[OCUDad]

Oh, you insensitive b*stard.

[Scott D]

Rush Limbaugh explained this very well today.

Geneva language is very vague, thus our interrogators don't know what they can and can't do. Bush is asking Congress to define this, so that the interrogators won't risk being prosecuted for war crimes.

That's what I got out of it.

was that in between all the wheezing and stammering he does to fill dead airspace?

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Let's face it our boys could give them cupcakes...and someone is going to bitch that we didn't put sprinkles on them, I say we interrogate those bitches however we want.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Let's face it our boys could give them cupcakes...and someone is going to bitch that we didn't put sprinkles on them, I say we interrogate those bitches however we want.Off again, on again.

[mildpussy]

That's because they speak both French and German in Switzerland.

and italian.

way off this topic but back on the other topic

stay out the bushes?

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Off again, on again.

Not really, I don't say we brag about doing bad things...we just do it.

[usmc-sooner]

I agree with that...

aww how cute

just a day ago LosAngelesSooner goes all out to put me on his ignore list. Then he posts how happy he is I'm on his ignore list. A day later he's sifting through a thread that I started and posting in it. :rolleyes:


hahahahahahahhhahahahahahahhhahahahahaha

[Mjcpr]

To me, Powell always looks as if he would have bad bref.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Do you honestly think John McCain wants America to not succeed.He's so strange and unpredictable, it's difficult to assess much of what he does. Couple of things I do think are that he definitely likes to keep in the media, and believes he is well respected.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Wow you just basically questioned whether or not a man who can't lift his arms above his head because of injuries caused while serving this country and whose son is in the Marines loyalty to the success of our nation. I wonder if a lib was attacking the integrity of one of our troops who was a POW and suffered grievious injury from the enemy, would you take that, no you would call them Un-American!

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Wow you just basically questioned whether or not a man who can't lift his arms above his head because of injuries caused while serving this country and whose son is in the Marines loyalty to the success of our nation. I wonder if a lib was attacking the integrity of one of our troops who was a POW and suffered grievious injury from the enemy, would you take that, no you would call them Un-American!Without knowing anything about that troop, why would I or anyone have an opinion? Maybe I would know something about the lib? What would you know about either of these hypothetical people?
Gandalf, would you vote for McCain if he ran for POTUS as an independent? Do you realize the likely result of his running as an independent?

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Since when do you need all of the information to make a decision. Maybe Rush can tell you how you feel about McCain and his service to this country

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Since when do you need all of the information to make a decision. Maybe Rush can tell you how you feel about McCain and his service to this countryWowee Zowie

[bri]

Do you realize the likely result of his running as an independent?

An independant will win the election? :confused:

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

An independant will win the election? :confused:Good one!

[Scott D]

Do you realize the likely result of his running as an independent?

it'd give you and your radio idol a severe case of pantius twistedus in a bunchus?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

it'd give you and your radio idol a severe case of pantius twistedus in a bunchus?Not to mention the USA.

[bri]

Man, we're SO lucky to have a great, brilliant patriot like you to tell us what's good for us.

Thank you, william. Truly, you are doing the Lord's work here amongst the heathens.

[usmc-sooner]

I guess I'm off LAS's ignore list you should see, what he sent me in the little spek comment.

pretty freakin funny that any disagreement with him can result in him losing his cool and going into a meltdown mode.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Man, we're SO lucky to have a great, brilliant patriot like you to tell us what's good for us.

Thank you, william. Truly, you are doing the Lord's work here amongst the clueless knotheaded parrots. Maybe someday we'll consider you might be wiser than we currently think. Progress is good.

[bri]

What part of "telling people on the internet what they should think" is progress?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

What part of "telling people on the internet what they should think" is progress?Oh yeah, it's you guys that are the progressives. Hey people, you're free to think what you want.(I think the Sooner football team got the "Texas treatment" up there in Oregon)

[Scott D]

What part of "telling people on the internet what they should think" is progress?

the part that follows the page about the proper way to take lithium which apparently got lost when he picked up the prescription.

[bri]

Oh yeah, it's you guys that are the progressives. Hey people, you're free to think what you want.

Why, thank you, willie. Very magnanimous of you.

By the way, which "you guys" do I belong to? I mean, obviously I'm a Democrat, but I've been trying to figure out if I'm a lib or moderate, and I've noticed you're the guy in charge of deciding who belongs to what group...

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

I think it is funny that someone can call into debate the integrity of a man who to in all honestly had these things done to him because he was from this country....let's see the Vietcong broke both arms and broke his legs, he was bayonetted in his foot and arm and had his shoulder crushed. Then this man instead of giving information to the enemy was beaten EVERY DAY until he was unconscience. And you expect me to listen to A) A man who has given up the priveledge of holding both arms above his shoulders to protect his fellow soldiers or B) A man on a message board that would probably denounce this country if someone took away his air conditioner for a couple of hours. I think I will trust that McCain would NEVER...EVER say something about the safety of the troops if he didn't in fact believe it. Also McCain has one son in the Navy...and another in the Marine corp and you somehow think that troop safety is something he doesn't care about or just panders to an audience. I don't know about anyone else but questioning McCain's ideas is allright...he could be incredibly wrong. However, to pull a Coulter and Rush trick and attack the integrity is incredibly hurtful to me because it's easy to sit there in Coulter and Rush's big *** houses with no stake in the war on terror and make wide sweeping proclamitions but I will stick with my war hero, I would vote for John McCain over 99% of the men in the United States even if he ran as a Democrat. I would much rather have a Powell or McCain running the war because they KNOW how decisions effect lives...they KNOW how hard it is to lose a friend because of beraucracy.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Why, thank you, willie. Very magnanimous of you.

By the way, which "you guys" do I belong to? I mean, obviously I'm a Democrat, but I've been trying to figure out if I'm a lib or moderate, and I've noticed you're the guy in charge of deciding who belongs to what group...I dunno, how important is abortion on demand to you? Do McCain-Feingold campaign finance reform and/or legal minimum wage seem like sensible things to you? Does socialized medicine seem like a "right" to you? If you answer "yes" to any of these, you could well be a lib.

[bri]

Ah, such an easy, carefree worldview. "I can peg you soley by your stance on once issue of my choosing!"

Using your approach, I can tell that you are a fiscal conservative with a portfolio that features several shares in feminine hygene manufacters. You know, due to your love of rampant *********gery.

[Scott D]

well that and his propensity to smell like moldy gouda and have mothball breath...or so I heard.

[1stTimeCaller]

I dunno, how important is abortion on demand to you? Do McCain-Feingold campaign finance reform and/or legal minimum wage seem like sensible things to you? Does socialized medicine seem like a "right" to you? If you answer "yes" to any of these, you could well be a lib.

Seriously dude. I know that you and Tuba think I'm a lib because neither one of you realize that I just point out your BS, untruths and hypocritic comments.

I'm 27, single. Abortion isn't a key issue with me. I'm fine with the way things are. Our abortion laws are one of the many reasons that our crime rate is not rampant.

Minimum wage. I don't have much to say on that other than it's been over 10 years since I only made minimum wage but with that said what exactly can a guy pay for that makes $206.00/week? That's $10,712/year.

M-F campaign reform, don't know the detals, don't really care. Corruptable people will still be elected i.e. Tom Delay, Rep. Cunningham (CA) et al.

Socialized medicine, I'm sure that you knew this but taxpayers currently and have for years paid for County Hospitals and that you as a taxpayer can go to your local county hospital to be seen. I'm not in favor of a Canadian-style socialized medicine program but oh well.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Once again, if McCain runs as an independent, we will be getting a new dim for POTUS.

[bri]

I can't help but think that maybe people would take you a little seriously if you did something besides spout rhetoric, Dittohead. This whole "dim" thing gets a little more childish each time.

[Scott D]

Once again, if McCain runs as an independent, we will be getting a new dim for POTUS.

this mean we can pencil you in as someone who will vacate the united states, and if so, then can anyone move the election up?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

this mean we can pencil you in as someone who will vacate the united states, and if so, then can anyone move the election up?Just vote for McCain only if he's (somehow)the republican nominee.

[jk the sooner fan]

i have no idea who i might vote for in the next election, but it WONT be McCain

[Scott D]

Just vote for McCain only if he's (somehow)the republican nominee.

how about I do what I always do...and that's not vote how someone tells me, but rather on what I feel is important..

then again, that generally means looking past the fluff (rep/dem) and the loons (green party, etc.)

[Ike]

how about I do what I always do...and that's not vote how someone tells me, but rather on what I feel is important..

then again, that generally means looking past the fluff (rep/dem) and the loons (green party, etc.)


but then you'll be setting us up to let the other side win!!!!!!!! you can't do that. its downright un-american to vote your concience and not your party!!!!


why do you hate america?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

but then you'll be setting us up to let the other side win!!!!!!!! you can't do that. its downright un-american to vote your concience and not your party!!!!


why do you hate america?Beauty!

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Let me get this straight...McCain the Republican is a good, McCain the Democrat would be bad for America....Do you realize they are one and the same person?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Let me get this straight...McCain the Republican is a good, McCain the Democrat would be bad for America....Do you realize they are one and the same person?Do you really stand by the above comment?

[OCUDad]

From the Audubon Guide to Birdbrains of the World:


Cuckoo ignoramus extremus (familiarly known as “moonbat” or “flat-out loon”)

Any of a number of scavenging, highly aggressive species best known for its loud and shrill cry and tendency to overreact to actual or perceived danger or opposition.

Range: Found all over the world.
Camouflage: Attempts to disguise itself as a “patriot,” but the disguise rarely stands up to scrutiny.
Vocalization: Mating call and song of aggression are identical – “neener neener neener.”
Variations: Presents as two warring species: left-eared or right-eared. Each species exhibits total inability to accept input from any direction other than the side on which its single ear is located.
Defining characteristics: Blind belief that it is in sole possession of “the facts.” Conviction that any view other than its own is not only incorrect, but dangerous. Always presents as part of the problem, not the solution. Highly territorial. Hugely hypocritical; usually displays all the behaviors it purports to despise. No color perception – sees the world in black and white.
Examples: Cindy Sheehan, Oklahoma Tuba, Hugo Chavez, Jerk, Osama bin Laden, william favor

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Umm yes, The same way Democrat Lieberman is the same as Independent Leiberman....your party doesn't change who you are

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Didn't a Democrat speak at the Republican National Convention...it seems your own party even gets it

[usmc-sooner]

From the Audubon Guide to Birdbrains of the World:

throwing them in there with Osama Bin Ladin, kinda out of line. I expect this sort of thing from LAS.

[OCUDad]

I forgot "inability to appreciate subtlety." Sorry.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Yeah, Tuba has sense most of the time, however Favor does seem to follow the company line very much like a young Jihadist would from Osama...unquestioning loyalty regardless. Tuba shouldn't be anywhere near the same sentence as Bin laden However ;)

[bri]

Well, tuba actually has a mind of his own...wheras willie merely has an AM radio and three hours to kill every day.