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View Full Version : If we are going to have a war, can we please fight to win?



TrophyCollector
9/13/2006, 06:45 PM
WTF??? What BETTER place to kill people than at a freaking cemetery??? The PC crowd has now managed to even tie our soldier's hands. How sickening!

************************************************** ******


U.S. declines Taliban funeral target
LOLITA C. BALDOR
Associated Press
WASHINGTON - The U.S. military acknowledged Wednesday that it considered bombing a group of more than 100 Taliban insurgents in southern Afghanistan but decided not to after determining they were on the grounds of a cemetery.

The decision came to light after an NBC News correspondent's blog carried a photograph of the insurgents. Defense department officials first tried to block further publication of the photo, then struggled to explain what it depicted.

NBC News claimed U.S. Army officers wanted to attack the ceremony with missiles carried by an unmanned Predator drone but were prevented under rules of battlefield engagement that bar attacks on cemeteries.

In a statement released Wednesday, the U.S. military in Afghanistan said the picture - a grainy black-and-white photo taken in July - was given to a journalist to show that Taliban insurgents were congregating in large groups. The statement said U.S. forces considered attacking.

"During the observation of the group over a significant period of time, it was determined that the group was located on the grounds of (the) cemetery and were likely conducting a funeral for Taliban insurgents killed in a coalition operation nearby earlier in the day," the statement said. "A decision was made not to strike this group of insurgents at that specific location and time."

While not giving a reason for the decision, the military concluded the statement saying that while Taliban forces have killed innocent civilians during a funeral, coalition forces "hold themselves to a higher moral and ethical standard than their enemies."

The photo shows what NBC News says are 190 Taliban militants standing in several rows near a vehicle in an open area of land. Gunsight-like brackets were positioned over the group in the photo.

The photo appeared on NBC News correspondent Kerry Sanders' blog. Initially military officials called it an unauthorized release, but they later said it was given to the journalist.

NBC News had quoted one Army officer who was involved with the spy mission as saying "we were so excited" that the group had been spotted and was in the sights of a U.S. drone. But the network quoted the officer, who was not identified, as saying that frustration soon set in after the officers realized they couldn't bomb the funeral under the military's rules of engagement.

Defense Department officials have said repeatedly that while they try to be mindful of religious and cultural sensitivities, they make no promises that such sites can always be avoided in battle because militants often seek cover in those and other civilian sites.

Mosques and similar locations have become frequent sites of violence in the U.S.-led wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and they have often been targets of insurgents and sectarian fighting in Iraq.

VeeJay
9/13/2006, 06:51 PM
Hey, we're just trying to get Michael Moore, Michael Crook, and Cindy Sheehan to like us.

achiro
9/13/2006, 06:59 PM
I was flipping through the channels this morning and that chick on foxnews morning show was going OFF about this. I agreed with everything she said!

Hatfield
9/13/2006, 07:13 PM
seems this has more to do with the military's rules of engagement than it does with the "pc crowd"

Rogue
9/13/2006, 07:16 PM
seems this has more to do with the military's rules of engagement than it does with the "pc crowd"
Yup

Harry Beanbag
9/13/2006, 07:26 PM
seems this has more to do with the military's rules of engagement than it does with the "pc crowd"


Which have apparently changed due to the nature of the coverage of the war. Anybody remember the "wedding" that we tore up in Iraq a couple years ago?

usmc-sooner
9/13/2006, 07:29 PM
what's wrong with just having one big Taliban funeral

TrophyCollector
9/13/2006, 07:59 PM
what's wrong with just having one big Taliban funeral

Amen, brutha.

jeremy885
9/13/2006, 08:22 PM
Couldn't they just have the drone fly around and hit the guys after they left the cemetery? It wouldn't have produced the same body count but they still would have gotten some of them. Or since they were fighting these guys earlier in the day, wouldn't a coalition unit be close by and they could have been sent in to ambush them after they left?

Hatfield
9/13/2006, 08:45 PM
Which have apparently changed due to the nature of the coverage of the war. Anybody remember the "wedding" that we tore up in Iraq a couple years ago?

have they apparently changed? please provide me the date of the change if you could. tia

Harry Beanbag
9/13/2006, 10:17 PM
have they apparently changed? please provide me the date of the change if you could. tia


Geez, can you be any more difficult or bullheaded? Why don't you tell me all you know about military operations again, that's always entertaining. TIA.

olevetonahill
9/13/2006, 10:32 PM
Dudes we havnt fought a war to Win since WW2 and if you read your history .At times that was suspect !
just sayin

olevetonahill
9/13/2006, 10:34 PM
Oh and whatever you do . Dont take Pics Nor allow em
Nother Just sayin ;)

GrapevineSooner
9/13/2006, 11:03 PM
Couldn't they just have the drone fly around and hit the guys after they left the cemetery? It wouldn't have produced the same body count but they still would have gotten some of them. Or since they were fighting these guys earlier in the day, wouldn't a coalition unit be close by and they could have been sent in to ambush them after they left?


They all splintered and went back to their hideouts individually.

Personally, our Rules of Engagement should prevent an attack like this from happening only when it puts civilians in harms way.

If the only people attending the funeral were members of the Taliban, then we should have allowed those paying their last respects to the dearly departed to join them.

bri
9/13/2006, 11:11 PM
Wait, let me see if I've got this straight...we're fighting the war on terror by Highlander rules?

http://www.threemoviebuffs.com/miscreview/highlander3.jpg
HOLY GROUND, HIGHLANDER!!!

proud gonzo
9/13/2006, 11:54 PM
http://www.dave.mcclure.net/images/dunser.jpg
**** yeah!! Duncan McLeod says there can be only one, beyonce.

OklahomaTuba
9/14/2006, 12:05 AM
The last thing we need to do is start treating Afganistan the way the Soviets did. That didn't work out to well for them IMO.

GottaHavePride
9/14/2006, 12:12 AM
Yeah, I'm guessing they decided the risk of alienating a whole ****load of people over there by desecrating their dead with explosives wasn't worth the potential benefit.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
9/14/2006, 12:38 AM
Dudes we havnt fought a war to Win since WW2 and if you read your history .At times that was suspect !
just sayinSo sad...but, so true!

bri
9/14/2006, 07:09 AM
http://www.dave.mcclure.net/images/dunser.jpg
**** yeah!! Duncan McLeod says there can be only one, beyonce.


Dead.

To.

Me.


:mad:

Sooner_Bob
9/14/2006, 07:14 AM
I'd be more miffed about them not trying to follow some of them back to their cave and blast 'em there.


Oh and, Connor pwns Duncan . . . I don't care what was portrayed in the last movie.

usmc-sooner
9/14/2006, 07:19 AM
some Queen background music, please

Sooner_Bob
9/14/2006, 07:27 AM
Here we are, Born to be kings,
We're the princes of the universe,
Here we belong, Fighting to survive,
In a world with the darkest powers,
And here we are, We're the princes of the universe,
Here we belong, Fighting for survival,
We've come to be the rules of your world,
I am immortal, I have inside me blood of kings,
I have no rival, No man can be my equal,
Take me to the future of your world,
Born to be kings, Princes of the universe,
Fighting and free, Got your world in my hand,
I'm here for your love and I'll make my stand,
We were born to be princes of the universe,
No man could understand. My power is in my own hand,
Ooh, Ooh, Ooh, People talk about you,
People say you've had your day,
I'm a man that will go far,
Fly the moon and reach for the stars,
With my sword and head held high,
Got to pass the test first time - yeah,
I know that people talk about me I hear it every day,
But I can prove you wrong cos I'm right first time,
Yeah. Yeah. Alright, Watch this man fly,
Bring on the girls,
Here We are. Born to be kings. We're the princes of
the universe. Here we belong. Born to be kings,
Princes of the universe. Fighting and free,
Got the world in my hands. I'm here for your love,
And I'll make my stand,
We were born to be princes of the universe.

Hatfield
9/14/2006, 07:38 AM
Geez, can you be any more difficult or bullheaded? Why don't you tell me all you know about military operations again, that's always entertaining. TIA.

really not trying to be bullheaded or difficult. The article mentioned that the rules of engagement prevented an attack on a cemetary. You blamed the PC crowd for changing the rules of engagement. I wasn't aware that was the case and asked you to simply prove up what you were saying. I fail to see how that makes me bullheaded or difficult.

i further fail to see how something "is always entertaining" when I don't believe I have ever told you all I know about military operations. (but nice distractionary technique from the fact that you made a claim you would rather not back up)

i asked a simple question. When did the PC crowd change the rules of engagement?

Hatfield
9/14/2006, 07:44 AM
Oh and, Connor pwns Duncan . . . I don't care what was portrayed in the last movie.

my favorite part about Highlander 3 was that it acted like that stink bomb of highlander 2 never even happened.

I felt that was fair.

Sooner_Bob
9/14/2006, 07:54 AM
I'd really like to buy the boxed set of the series and even the movies at some point.

I might just have to add them to my Netflix que to watch'em again.

bri
9/14/2006, 08:06 AM
my favorite part about Highlander 3 was that it acted like that stink bomb of highlander 2 never even happened.

My favorite thing about Highlander 3 was that it ended. :D

Mario Van Peebles made a LOUSY Kurgan...

jeremy885
9/14/2006, 09:51 AM
my favorite part about Highlander 3 was that it acted like that stink bomb of highlander 2 never even happened.

I felt that was fair.

Then the fourth acted like 2 and 3 never happened.

The series>the movies. Sorry Bri.

Sad day when they killed off the hot French chick.

Hatfield
9/14/2006, 10:05 AM
hot french chick was the hawtness i agree.

bri
9/14/2006, 11:46 AM
I scoff at your series.

I only recognize the original cult classic with Christopher Lambert, Sean Connery, cult hero Clancy Brown and the kick*ss soundtrack by Queen. Everything else is simply an abomination that pollutes the awesomeness of Highlander. :D

BigRedJed
9/14/2006, 12:10 PM
I agree with the man-mountain.

Sooner_Bob
9/14/2006, 12:17 PM
I scoff at your series.

I only recognize the original cult classic with Christopher Lambert, Sean Connery, cult hero Clancy Brown and the kick*ss soundtrack by Queen. Everything else is simply an abomination that pollutes the awesomeness of Highlander. :D


here, here . . . but the series is better than nothing. :D

bri
9/14/2006, 12:30 PM
Tell that to Ferris Bueller.

And what do you know? You like Stargate SG-1! ;)

Sooner_Bob
9/14/2006, 12:34 PM
Tell that to Ferris Bueller.

And what do you know? You like Stargate SG-1! ;)


Low blow dude . . . SG-1 rawks. :D

Of course it was better on Showtime than it is now, but still Amanda Tapping is one of the hawtest women in sci-fi. The addition of Claudia Black has just made the show even better.

Stargate Atlantis is decent enough, but not quite SG-1 material yet.


But you'll be happy to know that I in fact have every Farscape episode ever made (including the Peacekeeper Wars) and just need to find the time to watch them all.

TrophyCollector
9/14/2006, 12:35 PM
Yeah, I'm guessing they decided the risk of alienating a whole ****load of people over there by desecrating their dead with explosives wasn't worth the potential benefit.

So is our objective to not alienate the locals or is it to kill terrorists? I believe it is to kill terrorists and if we sometimes have to blow up a cemetery, church or religous relic in the process - then a simple "I'm sorry, I'm trying to make your country free and free of terrorists" should be satisfactory.

bri
9/14/2006, 12:38 PM
Low blow dude . . . SG-1 rawks. :D

Of course it was better on Showtime than it is now, but still Amanda Tapping is one of the hawtest women in sci-fi. The addition of Claudia Black has just made the show even better.

Stargate Atlantis is decent enough, but not quite SG-1 material yet.


But you'll be happy to know that I in fact have every Farscape episode ever made (including the Peacekeeper Wars) and just need to find the time to watch them all.

Well, that's a start. ;)

Me, I still want to get Lexx on DVD. Mmmmmmmmm, space porn.....:D

Sooner_Bob
9/14/2006, 12:42 PM
Well, that's a start. ;)

Me, I still want to get Lexx on DVD. Mmmmmmmmm, space porn.....:D


I'll see what I can do about that . . .

Harry Beanbag
9/14/2006, 04:15 PM
really not trying to be bullheaded or difficult. The article mentioned that the rules of engagement prevented an attack on a cemetary. You blamed the PC crowd for changing the rules of engagement. I wasn't aware that was the case and asked you to simply prove up what you were saying. I fail to see how that makes me bullheaded or difficult.

i further fail to see how something "is always entertaining" when I don't believe I have ever told you all I know about military operations. (but nice distractionary technique from the fact that you made a claim you would rather not back up)

i asked a simple question. When did the PC crowd change the rules of engagement?


Sorry, I was just put off with the tone (either real or perceived) of your response. I never stated anything as fact in my post, hence the use of the word "apparently". You immediately jumping on me and asking me to provide you with something that doesn't exist on the internet, whether it's true or not, just rubbed me the wrong way. Smelled like you were just being antagonistic, a la LAS, in a case where it really wasn't warranted. You normally aren't like that, directed at me anyway. Even though we rarely agree politically, I think we're usually pretty civil to each other.

Getting back to the topic, I was merely using deductive reasoning. We obliterated a religious ceremony in Iraq two years ago yet we pass on an even better opportunity to erase another religious ceremony in Afghanistan now because it's against the rules of engagement? Just drawing conclusions is all.

GottaHavePride
9/14/2006, 04:19 PM
So is our objective to not alienate the locals or is it to kill terrorists? I believe it is to kill terrorists and if we sometimes have to blow up a cemetery, church or religous relic in the process - then a simple "I'm sorry, I'm trying to make your country free and free of terrorists" should be satisfactory.

Yes, but killing terrorists in that manner will most likely create more terrorists than it kills. And a military action that leaves your enemy with MORE supporters than they had before the action is hardly a successful one.

GottaHavePride
9/14/2006, 04:22 PM
Of course it was better on Showtime than it is now, but still Amanda Tapping is one of the hawtest women in sci-fi. The addition of Claudia Black has just made the show even better.


Lexa Doig > Claudia Black >>>> Amanda Tapping.

Sadly, Andromeda is a pretty worthless show. Although it does have Lexa Doig AND Laura Bertram...

PhilTLL
9/14/2006, 04:27 PM
So is our objective to not alienate the locals or is it to kill terrorists?

Yes.

bri
9/14/2006, 04:30 PM
Sadly, Andromeda is a pretty worthless show. Although it does have Lexa Doig AND Laura Bertram...

AND the occasional guest hottie of the week.

jeremy885
9/14/2006, 04:33 PM
I thought Lexa Doig moved to SG-1?

BigRedJed
9/14/2006, 04:34 PM
I'd still hit Janeane Garofalo.

Neg away.

BigRedJed
9/14/2006, 04:36 PM
Oops. Wrong thread. But I don't take it back.

jeremy885
9/14/2006, 04:42 PM
I'd still hit Janeane Garofalo.

Neg away.


Using Ann Coulter as the club.