A real concern... help me OUt SF.com ...

[goingoneight]

Does anyone think OUr defense has gotten progressively worse since brother Mike left? Seems to me that's a very real argument. Everyone always hypes these guys like Keenan Clayton and so forth, but I only see a few playmakers out there. The guys we field are in fantastic shape physically, but we just seem kinda dumb at times. Am I wrong or does anyone else think this also? I mean, the practice report said BV and BJW worked all week long on tackling technique with the guys and we let the first little UW weenie slip through several tackles when Reggie got blocked.

[Blue]

I don't know what all this Mike Stoops hype is about. Besides 2000, we got waxed by OSU and A&M in 2002. Nebraska in 01.

It isn't like he was unbeatable. I think our defense will be just as good w/out the brainfarts late in the year.

[AzianSooner]

Mike's defenses were decisive and tough right on the first game. OU defense this year is wack, out of position, not tackle, uncover deep...... on the first game.

[Blue]

Mike's defenses were decisive and tough right on the first game. OU defense this year is wack, out of position, not tackle, uncover deep...... on the first game.

We be 2-0. We'rr get better. Carm down and take a chirr pirr.

[Ash]

FWIW:

Average pts allowed from 99-05

1999 ---- 19
2000 ---- 14.9
2001 ---- 13
2002 ---- 15.4
2003 ---- 15.3
2004 ---- 16.8
2005 ---- 23.1

these include championship and bowl games as appropriate, and, as with all averages, they are skewed by outliers. Also, keep in mind, it was me that calculated them.

[jbstrick]

Mike's defenses were decisive and tough right on the first game. OU defense this year is wack, out of position, not tackle, uncover deep...... on the first game.

Mike's not doing too hot at his new job.

[picasso]

I don't know what all this Mike Stoops hype is about. Besides 2000, we got waxed by OSU and A&M in 2002. Nebraska in 01.

It isn't like he was unbeatable. I think our defense will be just as good w/out the brainfarts late in the year.
Nebraska waxed us in '01? I missed that one.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Mike's defenses were decisive and tough right on the first game. OU defense this year is wack, out of position, not tackle, uncover deep...... on the first game.

kansas in 2000? UNC in 2001? kstate in 2001?

[picasso]

kansas in 2000? UNC in 2001? kstate in 2001?
jkm, I know your stance on Mikey but you have to admit our D has lost some bite since he left.
ESPECIALLY in getting turnovers.

[Ash]

Number of games where the defense gave up 30+ pts, and number of resulting losses:

1999 -- 4 -- 4
2000 -- 2 -- 0
2001 -- 1 -- 0
2002 -- 2 -- 2
2003 -- 1 -- 1
2004 -- 3 -- 1
2005 -- 4 -- 2

note: this based on final score, so includes pts. off special teams, turnovers, and might be meaningless but some (geeks?) might find it interestin'.

[Octavian]

2002 -- 2 -- 2

:(

We shoulda rocked both of those two.

[Ash]

:(

We shoulda rocked both of those two.

Indeed.

[Readyfor8]

Number of games where the defense gave up 30+ pts, and number of resulting losses:

1999 -- 4 -- 4
2000 -- 2 -- 0
2001 -- 1 -- 0
2002 -- 2 -- 2
2003 -- 1 -- 1
2004 -- 3 -- 1
2005 -- 4 -- 2

Thats a good point Ash.

I remember when we were talking about OU in 1999-2003, I would always hear about the "Bend But Don't Break" defenses. That used to be Bob Stoops Defensive strategy, remember?

Seems like we have long breaks in the past few years, but we don't bend very much anymore.

I also seem to remember most people thinking that if you keep the other team to less than 25 points the Defense did thier job. Our defense has underperformed no doubt, but its not like they aren't keeping us in the games we are playing.

[Octavian]

I think Venables is more than capable of coaching up a defensive strategy...he wasn't just along for the ride when Mike was here.

BV was an integral part of the scheming and implementation of the gameplan.

It was his defense that didn't yield a single point in the '04 RRS. His D gave up 14 points to LSU in the NCG...We ranked as the 13th best defense in the country in '05 (w/ a lot of youth) and had an offense that consistently put our D's back to the endzone...

OTOH, it just seems we've lost some sort've intangible that can't really be recorded on paper....some sort've fire. I don't know what it is....a feeling of complacency maybe.

That said, look at the tapes of our two games this year. Our D problems haven't been schemes...they've been execution.

[Ash]

Thats a good point Ash.

I remember when we were talking about OU in 1999-2003, I would always hear about the "Bend But Don't Break" defenses. That used to be Bob Stoops Defensive strategy, remember?

Seems like we have long breaks in the past few years, but we don't bend very much anymore.

I also seem to remember most people thinking that if you keep the other team to less than 25 points the Defense did thier job. Our defense has underperformed no doubt, but its not like they aren't keeping us in the games we are playing.


Yup

And BTW, I know numbers can lie but I've heard some coaches say that points given up is, at the end of the day, the only stat that matters for the D. Which is why I thought it might be interesting to look at 'em.

The 2001 D was tremendous, no doubt. And you can make an argument that Mike stole the mojo or whatever. On the other hand, last year was clearly an off year, but the others seem to be fairly steady. This year? who knows at this point.

What I do know is that Mike ain't coming back people. At least not as D coord.

[Earickson]

I think it is more an issue of the grass being greener or whatever they say. OU fans want Mike back because he is seen as the stimulus for the strong defenses OU had. I think it was the athletes actually.

I am confident that BV can recruit athletes to come to Norman and play great defense.

[Ash]

I think Venables is more than capable of coaching up a defensive strategy...he wasn't just along for the ride when Mike was here.

BV was an integral part of the scheming and implementation of the gameplan.

It was his defense that didn't yield a single point in the '04 RRS. His D gave up 14 points to LSU in the NCG...We ranked as the 13th best defense in the country in '05 (w/ a lot of youth) and had an offense that consistently put our D's back to the endzone...

OTOH, it just seems we've lost some sort've intangible that can't really be recorded on paper....some sort've fire. I don't know what it is....a feeling of complacency maybe.

That said, look at the tapes of our two games this year. Our D problems haven't been schemes...they've been execution.

I agree completely.

[soonerhubs]

I'm not writing off this defense at all. I'm thinking the improvements are coming along, and the young D-Tackles will begin getting better with every game.

A Question I've been wanting to ask: Is there any hope to think Granger and Co can live up to the Hype they were given as recruits?

[Readyfor8]

I'm not writing off this defense at all. I'm thinking the improvements are coming along, and the young D-Tackles will begin getting better with every game.

A Question I've been wanting to ask: Is there any hope to think Granger and Co can live up to the Hype they were given as recruits?

I'm not worried about hype. Mostly because Birdine, Wilkinson, Thibideux, Dvorechek, I don't remember them being 5 star recruits. This coaching staff makes DLine players, and Linebackers. I can't remember when we didn't have a college star on the DLine or Linebacking core under this coaching staff, and they didn't always have hype to make them great.

[Blue]

Nebraska waxed us in '01? I missed that one.

Did they not beat us 20-10 in 01'?

[CincySooner]

Did they not beat us 20-10 in 01'?

yeah, but you cant put that on the defense. OU out-gained NU and the D held them to 13 first downs at their place.

EDIT: I'd also say that holding the best running team in the country to 164 yards rushing is pretty good too.

[sooneron]

No one has said "swagger" yet?

[BIG_IKE]

Here is another angle....

YARDS PER GAME

2005- 306
2004- 299
2003- 259
2002- 293
2001- N/A
2000- 280

Not a significant difference...

and sooneron has an excellent point.

[sooneron]

No, I really don't. I just think that this thread should be merged with all other "We were so much bettah off with Mikey" threads that seem to pop up every 3 games.

[RacerX]

Geez JKM, thanks for reminding me how scary the 2000 KU game was.

[OK2LA]

No one has said "swagger" yet?


swagger

[CU Sooner]

I too keep thinking about the 2000 KU game and how after halftime the light seemed to come on for the defense and they were totally differnet from that point on. I think (and hope) that is what happened this last saturday for our D. It seemed like they were flying around and swarming better the second half. The other thing I see positive about this weekend is we saw this team with the exact same scheme last year, three games ago, and did pretty well. I think that BV will have a good gameplan in place and the players are eager to show what they can do against a quality opponent. Of course, I never take my crimson shades off.

[Ash]

No, I really don't. I just think that this thread should be merged with all other "We were so much bettah off with Mikey" threads that seem to pop up every 3 games.

Yes

[daddywarbucks]

There is something to be said for chemistry as well. A good defensive squad seems to have a feel for their teamates strengths and weakneses and fill in the gaps for each other. Still gelling this one togather.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

jkm, I know your stance on Mikey but you have to admit our D has lost some bite since he left.
ESPECIALLY in getting turnovers.

my issues with mike are personnel related. if you want to talk pure x's and o's mike is better than brent. however, my point was that brent is facing a little bit better competition than mike did in the first 3-4 games of the season, yet teams still drove on us under mike. no, they didn't score, but every year, we had this mantra - 'the defense will be okay by texas, they always are.'

i'll be the first to say that there is something wrong. under mike, just about every QB made at least 5 terrible decisions a game with us picking off about 40% of them. but it didn't stop there as the bulk of their reads would be classified as okay to poor. they just didn't consistently make great reads against our D. they were hesitant, unsure and absolutely bewildered by what they were facing.

this year, they are absolutely licking their chops. i mean just about every QB we've faced in the last 2 years is making the right read including RIF vince young. so without that confusion, we are relying totally on the QB missing the throw to make an INT. how often does that happen? stanback was probably the most inaccurate QB we'll face all season and he was off target twice?

is it scheme? is it lack of talent in the secondary? is it lack of talent in our backup QBs? (remember jason white was the scout team QB when mike was here)

[sooneron]

my issues with mike are personnel related. if you want to talk pure x's and o's mike is better than brent. however, my point was that brent is facing a little bit better competition than mike did in the first 3-4 games of the season, yet teams still drove on us under mike. no, they didn't score, but every year, we had this mantra - 'the defense will be okay by texas, they always are.'

i'll be the first to say that there is something wrong. under mike, just about every QB made at least 5 terrible decisions a game with us picking off about 40% of them. but it didn't stop there as the bulk of their reads would be classified as okay to poor. they just didn't consistently make great reads against our D. they were hesitant, unsure and absolutely bewildered by what they were facing.

this year, they are absolutely licking their chops. i mean just about every QB we've faced in the last 2 years is making the right read including RIF vince young. so without that confusion, we are relying totally on the QB missing the throw to make an INT. how often does that happen? stanback was probably the most inaccurate QB we'll face all season and he was off target twice?

is it scheme? is it lack of talent in the secondary? is it lack of talent in our backup QBs? (remember jason white was the scout team QB when mike was here)
I will agree about the gameplanning part, but it seems like BV is better at halftime adjustments. It seems the times where we didn't do so hot in the 2nd half is when a squirrelly white boy option qb has been thrown at us after the failure of the vanilla qb.

[goingoneight]

Did they not beat us 20-10 in 01'?

Maybe that had to do with two injured quarterbacks? I dunno, that position isn't all that important anyway...

[goingoneight]

I just don't like looking like falling retards trying to tackle a barely D-1 quarterback. I hate over-pursuits, and I'll tell you the main reason VY did so well running is because he made guys come after him instead of wait for him.

Seriously, this problem was more than evident by just watching OUr defense play in NoCo of 2004. They held opponents, but the defense of recent years, with that size, speed and talent, would have shut out all three Non-conference opponents.

BV seems as though he brings the pressure (on QB's and TB's) and Mike brings the strategy. I wouldn't normally neg OUr own DC, but this is the third year this has happened now.

Thanks for the insight, though...