Advice Needed

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

Before my Dad's funeral last week, my brother, my mom and I basically wrote the eulogy. We included stories involving my Dad's hobbies and family stuff.

The minister came to my parents' house to talk to us about the service. He didn't voice a problem with anything we wanted him to say.

At the service, he included everything we wanted him to talk about during the eulogy with one exception. My dad was really into playing poker. During the last year, he ran free poker games which gave his life purpose and a reason. For a long time we felt like the social aspect helped his health. We included this in the eulogy. The minister excluded all of that.

Now my mom has asked me to talk to him about it because I am the closest to him and frankly she is too upset.

How should I approach it to let him know how we feel?

If he had a problem with talking about card playing, he should have said something. I don't think it was an oversight because the paragraph was quite lengthy and he received a printed copy of the eulogy the day before the funeral.

[TopDaugIn2000]

ouch. you are correct, if he had a problem with it, he should have said something earlier and not just "skipped" over the whole bit. As far as HOW to approach him, I'm totally the wrong person for that, I am HORRIBLE at confrontation. Will say a prayer for ya though.

[Scott D]

Well I would see a minister not mentioning gambling since it's one of the things that organized religion is against, whether it's free or not. I think it probably would have been better to originally bring the matter up in such a way that it wasn't going to be referred to in a manner that made it synonomous with gambling.

The problem you have now as I see it is that you're going to be approaching him basically to question why he wouldn't go counter to his beliefs/teachings in regards to a matter of the eulogized.

[Mongo]

First, sorry for your loss. Prayers to you and your kin.

This was a eulogy for a great person in your life. You know the facts of your father's life. You know how he impacted others from his actions. Is it more important that others hear it, or that you know it?

It is pretty crappy that he pulled that on yall, but IMHO, let it go. You know what is important, and that is all that matters.

[OCUDad]

Well I would see a minister not mentioning gambling since it's one of the things that organized religion is against, whether it's free or not. Scott, you forgot your bingo card at the church hall last night.

Seriously, SBSB, it's too late to remedy the situation, but if you politely let the minister know your family was disappointed at the omission, perhaps he'll let you know if it was accidental or purposeful, and maybe it will make him more likely to handle this kind of thing better in future.

[Scott D]

Scott, you forgot your bingo card at the church hall last night.

Seriously, SBSB, it's too late to remedy the situation, but if you politely let the minister know your family was disappointed at the omission, perhaps he'll let you know if it was accidental or purposeful, and maybe it will make him more likely to handle this kind of thing better in future.

eh, Holley knows I'm not religious in the sense that pretty much anyone else is. However, he may have viewed the matter as a conflict of interest. I don't know their minister so I couldn't answer for him, but I'd guess either his moral views came into play, or he was omitting for brevity's sake.

and bingo is a pyramid scheme by the roman catholic church ;)

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

This is what he skipped, just for clarity:

More than 20 years ago, Ray and a group of friends began a monthly tradition of playing poker while their wives went out to dinner together. This group also traveled to New Mexico on numerous occasions. While eventually the monthly games became fewer and farther between, this group remained close.
In the past year, Ray joined a new group of poker playing buddies through Card Players of Oklahoma and coordinated free Texas Hold ‘Em tournaments at Buffalo Wild Wings in Edmond. Ray enjoyed both working and playing the poker tournaments. This new responsibility gave him renewed focus, structure and energy.

[Scott D]

I'd definitely ask him why he skipped the part. He may have a valid reason for it. Like I said though, with all of the negative connotations poker has/had attached to it that might be why.

[KaiserSooner]

Yeah Holley, what Scott just said above. Approach it by simply asking him why he skipped over that part of the eulogy.

[BoogercountySooner]

I wouldn't ask him why he ommitted it but why you weren't informed of the change so you could make a decision to continue to use him.

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

The sad thing is that the eulogy was very nice and the service was nice. I don't think he realized the importance of that aspect of his life.

[49r]

Although it may be small consolation, at least you can feel good knowing that that part of the eulogy will be here for all to see. If you felt comfortable with it, you should post the whole unedited version. There are hundreds of your SO friends that would be glad you did.

We've kept up with what's been going on with your father now for quite some time, and I think it's fair to say that you're part of an extended family here. We'd love to hear your memorial to your father.

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

Although it may be small consolation, at least you can feel good knowing that that part of the eulogy will be here for all to see. If you felt comfortable with it, you should post the whole unedited version. There are hundreds of your SO friends that would be glad you did.

We've kept up with what's been going on with your father now for quite some time, and I think it's fair to say that you're part of an extended family here. We'd love to hear your memorial to your father.My Dad's Eulogy (edited only to protect the innocent):

Fishing
Ray enjoyed fishing. Two years ago he purchased and refurbished a pontoon boat. Ray loved fishing on the lake on the pontoon boat or even just from the dock. Good friend Jack would say they spent a lot more time "fishing" than "catching." (Except for the trip when Jack caught more fish than anyone using Emily’s Scooby Doo rod and reel.)

Poker
More than 20 years ago, Ray and a group of friends began a monthly tradition of playing poker while their wives went out to dinner together. This group also traveled to New Mexico on numerous occasions. While eventually the monthly games became fewer and farther between, this group remained close.
In the past year, Ray joined a new group of poker playing buddies through Card Players of Oklahoma and coordinated free Texas Hold ‘Em tournaments at Buffalo Wild Wings in Edmond. Ray enjoyed both working and playing the poker tournaments. This new responsibility gave him renewed focus, structure and energy.

The Oklahoma Sooners
Ray was also a lifelong Oklahoma Sooners football and basketball fan. Most of the time, Ray could be seen sporting an OU t-shirt or ball cap. Shortly before the 2001 football season began, Ray learned he had the opportunity to represent the General Motors Oklahoma City plant at an Expo in Miami, Florida. Excited, he called Carol to see if she would want to go with him. She thought it sounded fun, and asked when the trip was scheduled. When he told her the dates, she said "No way. That’s OU-Texas Weekend!" While he enjoyed working in Miami and seeing his sister while there, he always wondered if it was worth missing Roy Williams’ now famous Superman play that sealed another victory for Oklahoma over Texas.

In recent weeks, though weakened by his illness, Ray counted down the days until he and Paul could watch the first game of the 2006 football season.

Life as "Pop"
The real joy of Ray’s life was being Pop to his three grandchildren. Pop enjoyed nothing more than spending time with them whether it was backyard farming, going on a walk, reading a book, playing catch or watching a Disney movie for the 5 millionth time.
During many summers, he, Carol and Holley took Liz on vacations with them. Liz and Pop were often the most adventurous on these trips. The transformation from "Dad" to "Pop" lead to the difficulty for him to say "no" to a child. No way would Dad have gone parasailing with one of his kids, but when 11-year-old Liz wanted to go, Pop couldn’t say yes fast enough. Off they went on another adventure.

With Emily and Pop, work was always the adventure. He gave her a carpenter’s tool belt of her very own and she became his ready and willing carpenter’s apprentice. Sometimes Pop’s reluctance to say no shocked Emily’s mother and grandmother. For example, when she joined her Daddy and Pop in tearing down a carport at Aunt Holley’s house, Melody and Carol turned the corner just in time to see Emily swinging a roofing hatchet to chop down the posts. Pop and Emily reassured them she knew exactly what she was doing and he couldn’t finish the job without her.

With Zene and Pop, adventures were the stories and tall tales they shared. Zene liked to pile up on Pop’s lap so they could discuss tractors, heavy equipment or their next fishing trip. While Zene was in morning kindergarten, he didn’t have to share Pop with his sisters in the afternoons, so they could fish or do whatever "guy things" they wanted to do.

Ray was so proud of his grandchildren. During the last few months, he cheered as Zene and the rest of the Moore Titans baseball team won the Pepsi World Series and as Emily and her Outlaws softball team won the Oklahoma State Championship. When Paul was transferred to Arlington, Liz was given a choice to stay in Oklahoma with her grandparents in her comfort zone and finish high school with her friends. After careful consideration, she decided to go on another adventure. Pop was impressed and proud that his 16 year old granddaughter was mature enough to see the opportunities in broadening her horizons.

Verses: 2 Timothy 4:7-8 "I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Now there is in store for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day – and not only to me, but also to all those who have longed for his appearing.

[jk the sooner fan]

its a shame he didnt approach you and explain what problems he obviously had with it, if perhaps the words "poker" had been simply replaced with "card games"....it could have been avoided

however, i would simply mention your disappointment and let it go at that...

[Rogue]

Thanks for sharing that. <<sniff>>

[BajaOklahoma]

I am surprised that he would have an issue with what you wrote, but more surprised that he didn't mention it was a problem before the service.

You may benefit from waiting a week to bring it up. The primary issue is that omitting the reference to the poker friends and games upset your mom. By leaving yourself out of the "upset" ones, you won't put him on the defensive with you.

I am so sorry about your loss.

[Tailwind]

That was a really nice eulogy, and not all that long. Ray sounds like a man I would have enjoyed knowing. I would probably just let it go, and not ask him to do any more family funerals, as he let your family down.

[Jimminy Crimson]

You should definately talk to him about it. It was a nice service and eulogy. I'm sure his poker buddies in attendance would have liked that mentioned, since I know he was very involved with that group.

[usmc-sooner]

SBSB

I may offer a little different advice. Right now your grieving and lots of grieving folks want to kinda lash out. I'm sure preacher's make mistakes all the times. You might want to heal a little bit before you talk to the preacher. If it was a mistake I think he'd feel awful about letting you and your family down.

It's hard for me to give advice since I've never had to deal with the loss of a parent. I just wish the best for you.

[Okla-homey]

Okay, you solicited our advice so here goes...

I would only add this and I offer it with great respect and sincerity. Your family chose to have your father's memorial service conducted by a Christian clergyman in a Christian setting as opposed to a secular memorial service. That implies a duty to abide by the pastor's judgment in terms of what he believes is appropriate to include in the service.

I know you know this because you were reared in the Church but remember, Jesus himself said, “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s.” To me, that pretty much means this pastor's decision not to include the poker stuff was made in good faith in order to keep the eulogy focused on spiritual things.

IOW, I think he's just trying to do his job and you should try to respect that. I also believe it probably wasn't an easy decision for him and was not meant to disrespect your Dad's memory or your family's wishes.

Personally, I don't think its something most of the pastors I've known would have had a problem with including because let's face it, your Dad really enjoyed it and it doesn't sound like it was harmful to him or the folks with whom he played.

Nevertheless, it was the pastor's call.

That said, I bet everyone who knew your Dad well and cared about him already knew about the card games so it wouldn't have been new information for most. There is also nothing to prevent you from discussing and reminiscing about it with others during the days to come as you have done here.

Just my opinion mind you.

hang in there.

[AlbqSooner]

Personally, I would probably let it go. However, if pressed to mention it I think it would be nice to approach it in this fashion. Tell him you were a bit surprised that he did not mention it during the eulogy. Explain that it was a disappointment to your family and others in attendance. Let him know that you brought it to his attention so that in the future, if he is asked to do a eulogy for some family he will express, BEFORE the service any items he feels are inappropriate. Then walk away before he comments. I say walk away because it will demonstrate to him the depth of your concern and will prevent you from hearing his explanation, which undoubtedly will only upset you more.

God Bless.

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

Thank you for the advice. When I do talk to him about it, I was thinking I might mention it by saying that we were surprised he left out the whole section. I will say that I know the church has a problem with gambling, but we weren't talking about gambling. I think JK was on the money (no pun intended) that if the word "poker" wasn't included, then it wouldn't have been an issue.

Had I known it would have been a problem, I would have added information about family Spades games and my Dad teaching me Solitaire, because he liked all kinds of card games.

The only reason I feel like I need to say anything at all is because my Mom is deeply offended. She sees it that a minister she has always liked and trusted and that my Dad really liked didn't do what we asked of him, and didn't voice that he had a problem with it.

[soonerbrat]

I was surprised that it wasn't mentioned at all..there were quite a few of the CPOK players there, and one other guy from BBW showed up too, and I bet they wondered the same thing.

[Partial Qualifier]

I'd ask him about it - the omission could've been an honest mistake, but if he intentionally left it out he should've told y'all first.

The one regret I have from my mother's funeral was not doing the eulogy myself. The preacher (from her church) did a great job but I think any of us - my brother, sister or me - could've done better by adding that personal touch to the eulogy. Weeping or not. Sorry to go off-topic.

[soonerbrat]

uh, that'd be the Roman Catholic Church and we don't need no bingo; we got indulgences and Sat night mass ;)


and confession

[OklahomaRed]

Sounds like you had a great Pop. Sorry for your loss. When it's all said and done, it's not about the minister. It's about those of you who knew him and loved him. That's what was important to you Dad. Take pride and peace in the fact that your Dad did what he enjoyed and relish the time that you got to spend with him doing the very things he loved. Don't make a big scene about it. It's done. The best thing you can do is be there for the rest of your family if and when they need you.

Great verse. That's all we can do, "fight the good fight and finish the race." God bless you and your family during this loss.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

All I can say is that you guys must be better men than I.

I would've already gnawed a chunk out of the pastor's butt. Fact is, that's the OP's father. The family's loved one. I've witnessed firsthand on more than one occasion pastors touching on the actions of the deceased that don't exactly jive with the edicts of the church. Fact is, that eulogy is a primer to the life of a man. A quick stroll of rememberance about the man to be interred. Not a pulpit for this cat to edit and abridge from.

But hey, that's just me. I like chewin' out men of the cloth. ;)

[Viking Kitten]

Sounds like you had a great Pop. Sorry for your loss. When it's all said and done, it's not about the minister. It's about those of you who knew him and loved him. That's what was important to you Dad. Take pride and peace in the fact that your Dad did what he enjoyed and relish the time that you got to spend with him doing the very things he loved. Don't make a big scene about it. It's done. The best thing you can do is be there for the rest of your family if and when they need you.

Great verse. That's all we can do, "fight the good fight and finish the race." God bless you and your family during this loss.

Word.

[TUSooner]

Thanks for sharing that. <<sniff>>
Please pass the kleenex.

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

I'd ask him about it - the omission could've been an honest mistake, but if he intentionally left it out he should've told y'all first.

The one regret I have from my mother's funeral was not doing the eulogy myself. The preacher (from her church) did a great job but I think any of us - my brother, sister or me - could've done better by adding that personal touch to the eulogy. Weeping or not. Sorry to go off-topic.That's not off topic at all. I wish I would have had the guts to do that, but I knew he could do it justice, and he did except for this point. It was therapeutic for the 3 of us to write the eulogy and for me to do the slideshow.

[Partial Qualifier]

That's not off topic at all. I wish I would have had the guts to do that, but I knew he could do it justice, and he did except for this point. It was therapeutic for the 3 of us to write the eulogy and for me to do the slideshow.

Yeah, it came down to a lack of guts here, too. Sorry about your loss :(