PDA

View Full Version : Death Penalty May Be Sought for 4 101st Airborne Soldiers



soonercody
9/2/2006, 05:25 PM
This is just sad...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060902/ap_on_re_us/iraq_soldiers_charged


Death penalty recommended in Iraq raid

By ALICIA A. CALDWELL, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 40 minutes ago



An Army investigator has recommended that four soldiers accused of murder in a raid in Iraq should face the death penalty if convicted, according to a report obtained Saturday by The Associated Press.

Lt. Col. James P. Daniel Jr. concluded that the slayings were premeditated and warranted the death sentence based on evidence he heard at an August hearing. The case will now be forwarded to Army officials, who will decide whether Daniel's recommendation should be followed.

The soldiers, all from the Fort Campbell, Ky.-based 101st Airborne Division's 187th Infantry Regiment, are accused of killing three Iraqi men taken from a house May 9 on a marshy island outside Samarra, about 60 miles north of Baghdad.

Staff Sgt. Raymond L. Girouard, Spc. William B. Hunsaker, Pfc. Corey R. Clagett and Spc. Juston R. Graber have claimed they were ordered to "kill all military age males" during the raid on the island. According to statements from some of the soldiers, they were told the target was an al-Qaida training camp.

Hunsaker told investigators that he and Clagett were attacked by the three men, who were being handcuffed, and shot them in self-defense. Clagett said he was hit in the face, and Hunsaker claimed he was stabbed during the attack.

Prosecutors argue the soldiers conspired to kill the men and then altered the scene to fit their story. They contend Girouard stabbed Hunsaker as part of the killing plot.

Clagett, Girouard and Hunsaker also are accused of threatening to kill another soldier who witnessed the slayings. Girouard, the most senior soldier charged, faces several additional charges, including sexual harassment and carrying a personal weapon on duty.

Paul Bergrin, Clagett's civilian attorney, said he was surprised that Daniel recommended the case be taken to trial at all.

"I'm extremely disappointed and disheartened," Bergrin said Saturday. "They are being used as pawns in the war on terror. They followed the rules of engagement. They were confronted with violence by a known al-Qaida training camp member."

Other lawyers in the case, several of whom are deployed to Iraq, did not immediately respond to e-mail requests for comment.

The soldiers are expected to be tried at Fort Campbell. They have been jailed in Kuwait since their arrests this year.

The U.S. military has not executed a soldier since the 1960 hanging of a soldier convicted rape and attempted murder.

___

Associated Press writer Alicia A. Caldwell, the El Paso, Texas, correspondent, reported this story from Glendale, Ariz.

walkoffsooner
9/2/2006, 07:43 PM
war is hell

mdklatt
9/2/2006, 11:36 PM
Holy crap. When was the last time somebody in the military was executed? Certainly the stress of combat should factor into this.

StoopTroup
9/2/2006, 11:41 PM
Hell No...Let Em Go!

nanimonai
9/3/2006, 12:12 AM
over/under on leftist anti-death penalty advocates lining up to defend these guys?

GottaHavePride
9/3/2006, 12:46 AM
over/under on leftist anti-death penalty advocates lining up to defend these guys?

I figure it would be the Cindy Sheehan faction that would want to throw soldiers following orders in a time of war under the bus. Probably just as many conservative troop-supporting Republicans lining up to defend them.

Plus, at this point there isn't enough info to tell what really happened. If they were following orders in a military action during a time of war, then bringing any charges against them at all is ridiculous. If they weren't following orders and staged the thing just to kill off three Iraqis then yeah, by all means try to get a death penalty for them.

Vaevictis
9/3/2006, 02:09 AM
If they were following orders in a military action during a time of war, then bringing any charges against them at all is ridiculous.

The statements don't seem to jive, based on the "facts" as presented in the article.

Put these statements together, and ask yourself what's wrong with the picture:
1. Orders were apparently to "kill all military age males."
2. They were "attacked by the three men, who were being handcuffed, and shot them in self-defense."

The question that occurs to me is: If your orders are to kill all military age males, why were you taking prisoners again?

GottaHavePride
9/3/2006, 12:44 PM
The statements don't seem to jive, based on the "facts" as presented in the article.

Put these statements together, and ask yourself what's wrong with the picture:
1. Orders were apparently to "kill all military age males."
2. They were "attacked by the three men, who were being handcuffed, and shot them in self-defense."

The question that occurs to me is: If your orders are to kill all military age males, why were you taking prisoners again?

that's why I said there isn't enough info yet. Someone is clearly still playing silly buggers with their story, and it remains to be seen who's just making stuff up...

Okla-homey
9/3/2006, 02:25 PM
waste of four good Screaming Eagle troopers IMHO.

usmc-sooner
9/3/2006, 05:53 PM
half the guys detained in Gitmo, have done much worse.

olevetonahill
9/3/2006, 05:58 PM
waste of four good Screaming Eagle troopers IMHO.
Yup and they wonder why recruiting is down !:mad:

GottaHavePride
9/3/2006, 06:01 PM
waste of four good Screaming Eagle troopers IMHO.

True. My granddad was one of those lunatics. ;)

nanimonai
9/3/2006, 10:31 PM
Yup and they wonder why recruiting is down !:mad:

"If the enemy doesn't kill you, we will!"

Great new slogan...:rolleyes:

nanimonai
9/3/2006, 10:36 PM
What's entirely ****ed up is that the soldier who tossed a grenade into a tent at the start of the war and intentionlly killed a number of his fellow troops only got prison time.

GottaHavePride
9/3/2006, 10:38 PM
Just remember, just because they might "face" the death penalty doesn't mean they'd hand out a sentence that harsh, either. I doubt it'll come o that either way.

olevetonahill
9/3/2006, 11:07 PM
Just remember, just because they might "face" the death penalty doesn't mean they'd hand out a sentence that harsh, either. I doubt it'll come o that either way.
Sorry ! But they shouldn't "face" that, Because of something that happened in a Combat situation !
Monday morning Q backing here !
All I can say Is If you've NEVER been in the **** ! you have No idea how deep it can get.

GottaHavePride
9/3/2006, 11:24 PM
I agree, assuming they were following legitimate orders.

olevetonahill
9/4/2006, 12:02 AM
I agree, assuming they were following legitimate orders.
What else can I say ?
When the **** hits the Fan you do your best to clean the fan . You may break a few blades , But you have to get it clean !

Okla-homey
9/4/2006, 07:32 AM
Has anyone seen the film "Breaker Morant?" Pretty relevant IMHO.

royalfan5
9/4/2006, 08:16 AM
Has anyone seen the film "Breaker Morant?" Pretty relevant IMHO.
That's a quality analogy right there.

Okla-homey
9/4/2006, 08:21 AM
Last poem composed by Harry Morant



BUTCHERED TO MAKE A DUTCHMAN'S HOLIDAY
by Harry ("Breaker") Morant

In prison cell I sadly sit,
A damned crest-fallen chappie!
And own to you I feel a bit-
A little bit - unhappy!

It really ain't the place nor time
To reel off rhyming diction -
But yet we'll write a final rhyme
Whilst waiting cru-ci-fixion!

No matter what "end" they decide -
Quick-lime or "b'iling ile," sir?
We'll do our best when crucified
To finish off in style, sir!

But we bequeath a parting tip
For sound advice of such men,
Who come across in transport ship
To polish off the Dutchmen!

If you encounter any Boers
You really must not loot 'em!
And if you wish to leave these shores,
For pity's sake, DON'T SHOOT 'EM!!

And if you'd earn a D.S.O.,
Why every British sinner
Should know the proper way to go
Is: "ASK THE BOER TO DINNER!"

Let's toss a bumper down our throat, -
Before we pass to Heaven,
And toast: "The trim-set petticoat
We leave behind in Devon."

First published in The Bulletin, 19 April 1902.

Okieflyer
9/4/2006, 08:30 AM
Sorry ! But they shouldn't "face" that, Because of something that happened in a Combat situation !
Monday morning Q backing here !
All I can say Is If you've NEVER been in the **** ! you have No idea how deep it can get.

BULL! This wasn't combat! It was an execution. If they are guilty, they should hang. I don't care what situation it was in, Murder is murder.

I'm one of those guys who thinks the military should go in and quit worring about civilian casualties as much as they do because it is war. But that is in combat. If guilty, these guys lowered themselves to animals. And no, not everyone would do the samething in the same situation.

I just hope it's not true and they are innocent.

Okla-homey
9/4/2006, 08:55 AM
I just hope it's not true and they are innocent.

So do I.

But even if they illegally but humanely shot the prisoners, at least they didn't cut their heads off on Al-Jezeera.;)

Rogue
9/4/2006, 08:55 AM
There's some serious holes in the story as I've read it. We sure ask alot of these kids who are trained to shoot to kill. We want them to be 19 y.o. gun-toting, IED avoiding, geurilla finding, diplomats. A tall order to be sure.

Okla-homey
9/4/2006, 09:02 AM
There's some serious holes in the story as I've read it. We sure ask alot of these kids who are trained to shoot to kill. We want them to be 19 y.o. gun-toting, IED avoiding, geurilla finding, diplomats. A tall order to be sure.

You are very astute. And despite the tallness of the order, the overwhelming majority of these magnificent kids manage to fill it.

Okieflyer
9/4/2006, 09:07 AM
But even if they illegally but humanely shot the prisoners, at least they didn't cut their heads off on Al-Jezeera.;)

Well...you got me there.;)

Ike
9/4/2006, 09:55 AM
This situation is sad the whole way around....

Sadly, I'm not surprised by this at all though. We are trying to use the military to win hearts and minds over there. And when that happens, situations that may be totally legit but look bad in the minds of the people we are trying to win over become a major sticking point. If we don't appear to 'deliver justice' in our handling of these situations, then the mission of winning hearts and minds is severly undercut.



I can't tell whether these soldiers were doing their job and following orders as they should be, or whether they committed some act that merits such punishment. As far as I can tell from what I've read, either is possible. However, Its my opinion that we still need to strive to actually dispense proper and meaningful justice rather than just give the appearance of doing so to those who have already made up their minds.