PDA

View Full Version : Wal-Mart: Steadfast Always



sooner n houston
8/29/2006, 10:52 AM
I thought this was an insightful look at Wal-Mart! :D



World’s Largest Retailer Was A Hero In the Days Following Katrina. So Why All The Negative Press?

Part 1 of 2

By Perry Hicks- Special to GulfCoastNews.com
Photos by Mark Proulx and Keith Burton

An alarming number of American companies have come under siege by unions and left wing activists, some of whom are of foreign origin; the frequency and virulence of the attacks alone are suggestive of a movement. Even more disquieting are how scurrilous claims go unchallenged in the press lending these charges a visage of credibility, a subject that will be examined in Part 2.

Coca-Cola is being accused of lowering ground water tables thus depriving farmers of their livelihood; In Europe, Apple Computer is fighting multiple battles to keep its proprietary music player technology (iPod) out of the hands of rival companies; and Wal-Mart is ostracized for having an operational efficiency that makes possible selling goods at everyday low prices.

Contrary to what is unwarranted criticism, Wal-Mart's position in communities proved to be a real benefit and a demonstration of the company's heart in how it handled the disaster that befell cities in the Katrina Disaster Zone.

For example in Waveland, Mississippi, ground-zero for Katrina, Wal-Mart is seen as a hero and everyone there knows it.

That is not to say any corporation, like any individual, is perfect. This lack of "perfection" is a truth that propagandists use to exploit any failure as wantonly malevolent. However, lacking anything substantive, detractors will certainly not shrink from creating condemnatory issues out of whole cloth.

For example, the left’s coined phrase of “high cost of low prices” is really an attempt to move the public to accept something they ordinarily would not: High prices.

Of course, the flip side to this phrase is the “high cost of high prices.” Low income Americans and the elderly living on fixed incomes emphatically do need reliably low prices.

Even more bizarre is how the left actually laments the way Wal-Mart wins business away from smaller, less efficient and therefore considerably more expensive, “mom and pop” stores. Far-left apologists actually portray discount retailing combined with good service as constituting what they see as an unfair advantage.

Never mind that Wal-Mart was once a small town business itself. What powered it to its sheer size and iconic status was the hard honest work of its people and the inspired vision of its founder, Sam Walton. Wal-Mart simply grew to be a goliath by outperforming its competition.

Predictably, the left considers commercial success so undesirable that the very presence of a Wal-Mart is depicted as being detrimental to the community.

The left will not acknowledge how Wal-Mart employment gives hundreds of thousands of everyday rural Americans jobs and benefits independent from their local power elite.

The left will not acknowledge how Wal-Mart’s massive size has benefited communities because its ample resources can be brought to bear on emergencies as it did in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

Indeed, this story is worth recounting because in the days immediately following the storm, Wal-Mart was the only organization ready and able to provide meaningful humanitarian aid. Every dedicated disaster relief organization was days from having a presence much less being able to provide food, clothing, and sometimes shelter to exhausted storm survivors.

Wal-Mart Relieved Suffering

As Katrina’s storm waters receded from Waveland, Mississippi, what emerged was a scene of utter desperation. Should an operable vehicle be had, there was no way to drive out of the affected area because the roads were either filled with debris or, like the coastal highway, otherwise impassable. The power grid was also wrecked as was the telephone system.

(Photo, left, shows a typical Waveland street after the road was cleared. The debris is what remains of dozens of homes on the street.)

In Waveland, government was literally brought to its knees because all of its offices had been destroyed. Alternate locations were rendered unusable by the filth and muck left behind by storm surge flood waters. Police and Fire units could not otherwise function because their radio towers had been blown down and all of their vehicles had been destroyed.

Those who survived the storm surge literally needed everything. The basics were paramount: Clean, dry clothes, food, and water. However, Waveland’s small business community was also destroyed. There was literally nothing to purchase had purchasing been possible.

Note that debit and credit cards require modern communication infrastructure in order to complete retail transactions. As stated earlier, telecommunications was non-existent. Furthermore, no banks were open, and even if they were, over the short term there was no way they could satisfy the demand for hard cash. Currency was something few survivors were in possession.

What did remain however damaged, was the local Wal-Mart and it immediately became the focus for those needing help.

Stories of Wal-Mart employee heroism abound across the entire region. In Waveland, store co-manager Jessica Lewis initiated the first relief effort in her city by taking upon herself to distribute what could be salvaged from her flooded Supercenter.

“Wal-Mart was wonderful! In a controlled way, they let people get what they needed,” Kathy Pinn, donations coordinator for the City of Waveland, told GCN. “Without Wal-Mart, the suffering would have been much greater,” she added.

Because the Waveland Wal-Mart building had been inundated to about 13 feet, salvageable goods had to be brought out onto the parking lot. That alone was a monumental task because a typical Supercenter contains about 142 thousand items.

Cleaning out the Waveland store and setting up an outdoor tent operation was done by employees, some of whom, like their customers, had lost everything. According to Wal-Mart, the free distribution of goods continued for about two weeks when other relief operations were finally available.

However, Wal-Mart’s aid didn’t end there. While some could argue that it never stopped, Walmart can also to be said to be the first major business to return to full operation.

Wal-Mart also donated $50 thousand to the Hancock County Chamber of Commerce for assistance in reestablishing small business in the city. Overall, Wal-Mart has given $17 million toward relief efforts.

Size Does Matter

Wal-Mart could make the difference not just because of the small town values of its people, but the sheer size of its operations. Wal-Mart is the world’s largest retailer whose reach literally spans the globe.

Because the world is a dangerous place, Wal-Mart must constantly watch for and assess threats to its global operations. It does this with its own 24/7 NORAD-style (North American Air Defense) Emergency Operations Center (EOC), located near Wal-Mart’s World Headquarters, in Bentonville, Arkansas.

Threats range from an airport bomb scare in Turkey to a hurricane entering the Gulf of Mexico. Each threat is given a rating and the appropriate level of response is taken to meet each challenge. A major event, such as a Category 5 hurricane, brings top management and logistics experts directly into EOC so that critical decisions can be made instantly and done so with all parties interacting face-to-face.

For example, an important Cat 5 decision could be something as mundane sounding as diverting Fruit-of-the-Loom underwear from Wisconsin to an endangered town like Waveland. Other decisions would be for how to shift company assets, like re-routing supply trucks, or even how to assist employees who were themselves refugees.

To this last point, Wal-Mart guaranteed any Katrina displaced employee a job at any store in the United States and authorized a $250 emergency cash stipend to be paid out to any Katrina displaced employee from any store anywhere in the United States. An employee hotline was also set up in Bentonville to assist employees in coping with their personal situations.

Wal-Mart was prepared for Katrina because its EOC had tracked the storm as it crossed over Florida and into the warm Gulf waters. Having dealt with several other storms in recent weeks, EOC was at the top of its game when it notified management of a likely landfall somewhere along the east Texas-Louisiana-western Mississippi coastline.

Unlike governmental hand-sitters, Wal-Mart management reacted immediately and had critical items rushed to distribution centers close to the threatened region. Because of the EOC’s forecast and Wal-Mart’s massive distribution machinery, relief supplies were available days before either FEMA or the American Red Cross could even set up their first folding table.

Getting loads of ice and water into the devastated areas sometimes meant having to clear a path ahead of the supply convoys. Because fuel and mechanical repairs were unavailable for a 150 mile radius from the point of landfall, Wal-Mart also had to make contingency plans to fuel and repair its trucks as they made their way through the devastated region.

Wal-Mart’s provision for fuel was particularly cogent because first responders, including the military and state and federal emergency management officials, ran out of fuel in the first days after the storm.

Lifeline for Civil Government

The sales tax revenue stream that makes government possible literally dried up with the total destruction of Waveland’s small businesses.

Because real estate taxes are largely collected with mortgage payments and kept in escrow, at least for the short term, this source of revenue was not in doubt. However, owing to the great number of bare slabs left by Katrina and the resultant decline in property valuations, in subsequent years real estate tax revenue will fall sharply.

Thus, the reestablishment of a sales tax revenue stream was critical to help finance the continuance of civil government. As stated earlier, Wal-Mart’s quick return to retail operations provided critically needed funds necessary to the support of local government.

Wal-Mart Quick Facts

Wal-Mart’s Logistics has estimated for GCN that 900 trucks were used to deliver 1200 to1500 loads of emergency relief supplies traveling approximately 360,000 miles with an average distance of 300 miles per load.

Assuming an average truck load of 50 thousand pounds, Wal-Mart delivered 700 million pounds of relief supplies into the storm affected region.

As of May 2006, Wal-Mart's presence in Mississippi includes:

Supercenters: 54
Discount Stores: 11
Neighborhood Markets: 1
SAM'S CLUBS: 6
Distribution Centers: 2
Average store size (national average)

Supercenter: 185,000 sq. ft. with approx. 142,000 items
Discount Store: 101,000 sq. ft. with approx. 120,000 items
Neighborhood Market: 41,000 sq. ft. with approx. 29,000 items
SAM'S CLUB: 130,000 sq. ft. with approx. 5,500 items
Total number of Wal-Mart associates in Mississippi is 26,793
Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. purchased $389,405,493 worth of merchandise and services from 878 suppliers located in Mississippi. This business relationship thus supports 38,923 supplier jobs.

In 2005, Wal-Mart collected on behalf of Mississippi more than $294.2 million in sales taxes. In the same period, Wal-Mart paid more than $37.6 million in state and local taxes.

Wal-Mart also gave to local causes and organizations a total of $3,901,543 in cash and in-kind donations.

Bashing Wal-Mart

Despite the way Wal-Mart has handled Katrina, detractors continue to unfairly tarnish Wal-Mart’s reputation with outdated or otherwise misleading arguments such as repeating the claim that Wal-Mart is harmful to communities.

Wal-Mart is also accused of paying poverty wages that force its employees onto public assistance, a serious sounding claim that will not hold up even under cursory examination.

Amazingly, these charges seem to have permeated the public’s awareness, even to the level of self-professed conservatives who should actually know better.

They should know better because these allegations are part of a coordinated campaign by two frustrated unions who have failed to organize a single store or distribution center within the continental United States. They make these charges in an effort to bring the retail giant to accept collective bargaining. The press has failed to critically analyze the claims, accepting even the most ridiculous arguments as absolute fact.

http://gulfcoastnews.com/GCNspecialWalMart.htm

NormanPride
8/29/2006, 10:53 AM
Why do you hate Norm?

12
8/29/2006, 10:59 AM
http://images.contentreserve.com/ImageType-100/0887-1/%7B97ABE6CD-7D83-475B-8278-210FB71B35DC%7DImg100.jpg

Hamhock
8/29/2006, 11:00 AM
I'm sorry, but this post was just too long for me to read.

TUSooner
8/29/2006, 11:03 AM
<mini-rant warning>
I guess I'd better abandon my drab old Methodist Christianity and start worshipping at Wal-Mart from now on. OK, there are some good points in the article, and Wal-Mart performed a public service for this city and its loyal cops during that storm and tragic aftermath. But the pro-Wal-Mart goo was laid on pretty thick. And it was accompanied by gratuitous swipes at the usual suspects - those evil wooly-brained leftists, which evidently means anybody who'd rather buy a loaf of bread from a bakery or a home-made sausage from a butcher shop, instead of from a warehouse that also sells tires, shoes, and underwear. <end mini-rant>

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
8/29/2006, 11:15 AM
<mini-rant warning>
I guess I'd better abandon my drab old Methodist Christianity and start worshipping at Wal-Mart from now on. OK, there are some good points in the article, and Wal-Mart performed a public service for this city and its loyal cops during that storm and tragic aftermath. But the pro-Wal-Mart goo was laid on pretty thick. And it was accompanied by gratuitous swipes at the usual suspects - those evil wooly-brained leftists, which evidently means anybody who'd rather buy a loaf of bread from a bakery or a home-made sausage from a butcher shop, instead of from a warehouse that also sells tires, shoes, and underwear. <end mini-rant>Hey, Wal-Mart is one of the great success stories of all time. While certainly not perfect, they have some fantastic achievements, and are a model for success. Unions? They don't need no stinkin' unions.

yermom
8/29/2006, 11:17 AM
Note that debit and credit cards require modern communication infrastructure in order to complete retail transactions. As stated earlier, telecommunications was non-existent. Furthermore, no banks were open, and even if they were, over the short term there was no way they could satisfy the demand for hard cash. Currency was something few survivors were in possession.


[:dean:MASON JARS![/:dean:]

TU, it's still pretty rare to hear much good about Wal-Mart... i mean sure they sell some crappy stuff from China, but they are cheap and open late.

and, you know i do prefer buying bread and tires at the same place :P

NormanPride
8/29/2006, 11:17 AM
They ARE a union.

yermom
8/29/2006, 11:18 AM
they have an economy bigger than most countries ;)

BudSooner
8/29/2006, 11:20 AM
Yeah, but they suck when it comes to decorating cakes on time. :D

Hamhock
8/29/2006, 11:32 AM
<mini-rant warning>
I guess I'd better abandon my drab old Methodist Christianity and start worshipping at Wal-Mart from now on. OK, there are some good points in the article, and Wal-Mart performed a public service for this city and its loyal cops during that storm and tragic aftermath. But the pro-Wal-Mart goo was laid on pretty thick. And it was accompanied by gratuitous swipes at the usual suspects - those evil wooly-brained leftists, which evidently means anybody who'd rather buy a loaf of bread from a bakery or a home-made sausage from a butcher shop, instead of from a warehouse that also sells tires, shoes, and underwear. <end mini-rant>


This post was much shorter. I read it.

OhU1
8/29/2006, 12:45 PM
The attack on Wal-Mart is more about elitism than concern for the poor. Elitist hate the low brow tastes of the common man. Further, they resent outfits like Wal-Mart that cater to such tastes and mass consumption needs. They would rather have the government meet the needs of the poor.

The left's concern about employee's welfare is B.S. In a nutshell these people dislike capitalism. Wal-Mart is a convenient target that also employs and serves the class of people the left feels they own.

TUSooner
8/29/2006, 01:05 PM
[:dean:MASON JARS![/:dean:]

TU, it's still pretty rare to hear much good about Wal-Mart... i mean sure they sell some crappy stuff from China, but they are cheap and open late.

and, you know i do prefer buying bread and tires at the same place :P

Surrender your wooly-brained-leftist membership card NOW !
:D

I don't hate free enterprise, and I don't hate Wal-Mart in that wooly-brained-leftist way. I have even been known to shop at Wal-Mart more than once a month, and not incognito either. I give Wal-Mart credit for satifying a demand in the market place.

But efficiency and economies of scale are not the greatest values in the world, unless the world is more totally effed up than I thought.

If there ever comes a day when Wal-Mart is the only place to shop, your community will NOT be a better place, except for the DOCILE BRAINWASHED HERD, seduced by advertising into believing that they really only need the 4 kinds of cheese and 3 kinds of bread that it's most efficient for Wal-Mart to sell. And WORSE, I tell ya, people will belive that they WANJT want to buy that stuuf at the same place they buy Wal-Mart brand tires. In fact, I GUARANTEE that if that happens, we will be EATING PROCESSED DEAD PEOPLE like in Soylent Green fer SURE. It will be the NEW WORLD ORDER, ONE GOVERNMENT, AND THE REIGN OF THE ANTICHRIST !!!!! :eek: :eek: or something.

But seriously, Wal-Mart does represent a sort-of creepy homogenization of culture, where everybody must buy the same bland things from the same bland place. I hope it never gets that bad.

OhU1
8/29/2006, 01:23 PM
But seriously, Wal-Mart does represent a sort-of creepy homogenization of culture, where everybody must buy the same bland things from the same bland place. I hope it never gets that bad.

Nah, our marketplace is too big and rich for 1 retailer to have the whole pie to themselves. There will always be alternatives to Wal-Mart, always.

I don't like Wal-Mart but I shop there because I am a cheap bastard. I don't want to pay $1.25 for the same can of beans at Albertson's that I can get at Wal-Mart for 93 cents.

American beer was completely homogenized until the mid 80's. Bland beer, no choices. Entrepreneurs filled the void and now there are hundreds of great beer choices for those who dislike the "Wal-Mart of Beers" (Budweiser).

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
8/29/2006, 01:47 PM
The attack on Wal-Mart is more about elitism than concern for the poor. Elitist hate the low brow tastes of the common man. Further, they resent outfits like Wal-Mart that cater to such tastes and mass consumption needs. They would rather have the government meet the needs of the poor.

The left's concern about employee's welfare is B.S. In a nutshell these people dislike capitalism. Wal-Mart is a convenient target that also employs and serves the class of people the left feels they own.BEAUTY! It truly IS about politics, isn't it?

yermom
8/29/2006, 02:03 PM
don't get me wrong, i'm not really a fan of Wal-Mart. they are kinda like the extreme big business/capitalist entity, and i think the days of them taking good care of their employees are kinda gone since the kids took over. but they aren't ALL bad

if i need something now/cheap, i go there. if i need something nice, or something that will last, i go elsewhere

OklahomaTuba
8/29/2006, 02:11 PM
No huge fan of Wal-Mart myself, I hate going cause of the crowds, but I think several studies have shown that the very existance of Wal-Mart helps the poor on a scale that the US Welfare system cannot even do with there low-price at all costs strategy.

Yet, the very people who are supposedly for the poor keep attacking Wal-Mart, as if its going to help them come election time.

Obviously, they havn't been to a Super Wal-Mart around the first of the month. Its like gameday in Norman.

Vaevictis
8/29/2006, 02:13 PM
don't get me wrong, i'm not really a fan of Wal-Mart. they are kinda like the extreme big business/capitalist entity, and i think the days of them taking good care of their employees are kinda gone since the kids took over. but they aren't ALL bad

This is the main beef I have with Walmart. I was a big fan of Sam and his practices. Dude was a competitor for sure, but he always tried to balance it with doing right by his employees/customers/community/etc. His kids and their flunkies seem to have no such imperitive.

I got the sense (both from his actions, and from people who knew the man) that Sam pursued things because he thought they were right, and then found a way to make them good business. His kids seem to do things because they're good business, and if they happen to be "right", they market the actions because that's good business too.

It's not so much that I hate the current Walmart, it's really just it's a shadow of itself as run by Sam.

12
8/29/2006, 02:19 PM
I DO know that had my parents had an alternative to Western Auto, I would have probably got my kick-*** bike before my 11th birthday.

OklahomaTuba
8/29/2006, 02:20 PM
This is the main beef I have with Walmart. I was a big fan of Sam and his practices. Dude was a competitor for sure, but he always tried to balance it with doing right by his employees/customers/community/etc. His kids and their flunkies seem to have no such imperitive.

I got the sense (both from his actions, and from people who knew the man) that Sam pursued things because he thought they were right, and then found a way to make them good business. His kids seem to do things because they're good business, and if they happen to be "right", they market the actions because that's good business too.

It's not so much that I hate the current Walmart, it's really just it's a shadow of itself as run by Sam.
I don't think you have a clue about Sam Walton from your statements. He was ruthless. He didn't do shiat cause it was "right", he did it to grow the business and make money to invest back into the business. This is the reason it has grown so much, they don't spend money except on things that make them money, new and bigger stores & technology. The company still runs on the same model HE developed. This is why they don't change a damn thing, not even the corporate HQs, the office the headman works in, nothing. His "buy American" thing was always a sham for marketing purposes and his treatment of vendors was legendary.

Dude did things to make money. Before Bill Gates was the richest man in the world, it was Sam Walton.

If he was alive today, he would be worth twice as much as Gates at least.

He demanded his employees work just as hard as they do now. The only thing that has changed for Wal-Mart is market share after destroying K-Mart and forcing Target to change so much its not even considered a real competitor by Wal-Mart.

With Marketshare comes power, and i can guarantee that Target would do the same thing if they had 1/100th of the customers Walmart had.

frankensooner
8/29/2006, 02:21 PM
Sam Walton Rocked! Wal Mart is the succ!

I like to shop at Crest and Target for all I can. Sometimes I will go to wallyworld when I just have to, otherwise, I keep my well-trimmed nose-hairs out of that place.

What is good for Wal Mart, isn't always good for American, like the way they strong arm US businesses to move factories to third world nations to keep those low prices.

Plus, I worked at TG&Y stores until Wal Mart killed them, which made me sad.

yermom
8/29/2006, 02:23 PM
I don't think you have a clue about Sam Walton from your statements.

based on what, other than that he made a lot of money?

12
8/29/2006, 02:28 PM
That said, I wouldn't trade those days of looking at my prize through the dusty Western Auto window for anything.

As trying as it was, I gained character and patience through my parent's neglect.

Damn, I wanted that bike bad. Enough so that I remember that same desire today and apply it to similar situations with my kids.

Of course, I always say, "Yeah, whatever... you never had the crux of your dreams flaunted in front of you like a cheap whore behind glass."

That usually changes the topic.

OklahomaTuba
8/29/2006, 02:30 PM
based on what, other than that he made a lot of money?

Based on this perception that the man was somehow a saint that "did the right thing".

Pure BS.

The guy lived below his means cause he didn't have time to spend money, he was too busy making it.

They were strong arming US and foreign business long before Sam died. Its the Wal-Mart way of doing things. Now that they have massive marketshare it is suddenly some sort of problem, although I think it could be argued that they do help their vendors become more competitive globally.

12
8/29/2006, 02:36 PM
Clearly, I was on crack while typing my last post.

Please excuse me.

Vaevictis
8/29/2006, 02:42 PM
based on what, other than that he made a lot of money?

Well, Walton was tough (brutal would be fair) on his vendors. Walmart's original and continuing core competency is supply chain management. They were and are the masters. Everyone has difficulty just following their lead, much less getting an advantage in that area. Their ability at SCM alone would have been sufficient to gut the rest of the industry.

He did try to balance it with ethics, however, something which his kids don't seem to have a grasp on. I get this from spending a lot of time around Bentonville in the late 80's and early 90's, hanging out with people who had been with Sam from his first few stores. From what I'm told by them, it never bothered him to crush other businesses -- that just being part of the way things work -- but treating his employees fairly and identifying what was right and then finding a way to make it good business was important to him. Dude took care of his own.

The fact that it was important to him and that he made an effort puts him above 90% of executives today, and his own kids too.

TUSooner
8/29/2006, 02:43 PM
The attack on Wal-Mart is more about elitism than concern for the poor. Elitist hate the low brow tastes of the common man. Further, they resent outfits like Wal-Mart that cater to such tastes and mass consumption needs. They would rather have the government meet the needs of the poor.

The left's concern about employee's welfare is B.S. In a nutshell these people dislike capitalism. Wal-Mart is a convenient target that also employs and serves the class of people the left feels they own.

This looks like a wonderful example of the straw-man argument that appears so often on these hallowed innerweb pages. We misconstrue or exaggerate our opponents' views and impute to them the worst possible motives. Then NO reasonable person could fail to hate them and agree with us.

Let's change one insignificant word:
"Elitists hate the low brow tastes of the common man. Further, they resent outfits like Anheuser-Busch that cater to such tastes and mass consumption needs." Thus, anybody who is put off by the ubiquitous shilling of Budweiser and its market-hogging tactics, and who wants to see more mircrobrews on the shelves of his local (and soon to be defunct ;) ) grocer, is a wooly-brained-elitist-pinko-leftist commie. Might as well say that anybody who isn't satisfied with Bud or Bud Light is ghey

I have encountered a few true-believers who ALMOST approach the caricatured Wal-Mart haters you describe. They opposed a perfecty reasonable project to build a Wal-Mart in the totally blighted area of an abandoned housing project. They had no viable alternative except to perpetuate the decay. Their plan for a colection of small shops was a pipe dream, and the Wal-Mart turned out to be a vast improvement to the area. But few of of these "elitists' would fit your exagggerated description (although some would actually embrace it.)

Yes, I'm being pretty damned annoying and pedantic to point out this exaggeration. But I just think this stuff needs to be called out now and then. And I won't accept that sort of charaterization of ME just because I don't like Wal-Mart in general.

IGR
8/29/2006, 02:51 PM
Wal-Mart has eliminated more poverty (http://igottarant.com/showthread.php?t=3462&highlight=poverty) than any other entity on earth.

TUSooner
8/29/2006, 03:23 PM
Wal-Mart has eliminated more poverty (http://igottarant.com/showthread.php?t=3462&highlight=poverty) than any other entity on earth.

My brother is pretty well-off due to owning Wal-Mart stock.

OhU1
8/29/2006, 04:51 PM
I won't accept that sort of charaterization of ME just because I don't like Wal-Mart in general.

Wow man, I never even read your post when I posted my first comment in this thread.

And as for myself, I make no bones about it - I am an absolute beer snob elitist. (But I will not turn down a free Bud as I am a cheap bastard who likes beer). As someone who loves good beer AB is no threat. The market is too big for any supplier to "take over". There will always be an AB type outfit in a retail industry to cater to the majority tastes and take 50% of the market share.

TUSooner
8/29/2006, 05:51 PM
Wow man, I never even read your post when I posted my first comment in this thread.

And as for myself, I make no bones about it - I am an absolute beer snob elitist. (But I will not turn down a free Bud as I am a cheap bastard who likes beer). As someone who loves good beer AB is no threat. The market is too big for any supplier to "take over". There will always be an AB type outfit in a retail industry to cater to the majority tastes and take 50% of the market share.

Uhh. My bad, in that regard. :O I didn't meant to imply that your post was directed specifically at me. In fact, judging from your post about the beer, I knew it wasn't. I just wanted to say that the "elitist" post was overbroad and would not apply to all Wal-Mart-not-likers, including me. I have a beer in the fridge with your name on it.

OhU1
8/29/2006, 06:27 PM
TU my comment was directed to the "Michael Moore" crowd and I personally know several. If you go to the Yahoo finance page and put in the WMT stock symbol and read the message board 3/4 of the posts are Wal-Mart political interchanges. Lots of MM people to be found there. So much for stock discussion.

Wal-Mart is the bogey man of the far left but of course that does not mean those that dislike Wal-Mart are associated with a leftist political orientation. There are many reasons to dislike Walmart other than politics.

I feel dirty every time I go there. Kids get beat there, there's that greeter person who doubles as security checking your receipt as you leave, ect.

BoogercountySooner
8/29/2006, 06:39 PM
I met Sam Walton before he didn't seem evil like the debil or nuthin!

Jerk
8/29/2006, 06:58 PM
If Wal*Mart&#169; decided to donate millions and millions to the Democrat Party, much of the criticism would simply go away.

I think it's just another shakedown.

They went after Microsoft&#169;, Big Tobacco, et al.

Whoever has money needs to watch out.

TUSooner
8/29/2006, 09:27 PM
Well, I usually have to keep my disdain for WM in check because
My brother is loaded due to WM stick and his inlaws (& jerk's) are WM emloyees and stockholders.
I don't really figure their business practices are any sharper than anybody else's, like Nike's or Ford's, or whoever's. I'm not that sophisticated. I like the store for some stuff, but , it is usually a frikking zoo, which I do not like for purely elitist reasons (like OhU's). I hate to think that the future of buying stuff is going to look like one giant WM. But, as usual, I have said too much in this thread, so

SoonerBorn68
8/30/2006, 12:28 AM
<sigh> To each his own I guess. If you want to pay 10-15% higher across the board for your daily needs, go for it.

I hate Target. They routinely have the same items higher priced. I did notice they price matched WM's DVD prices. I guess they were tired of getting their *** kicked on sales.

A typical trip to WM costs my family about $150. My three kids like to eat...a lot. If I pay $20 more to go to Homeland or ALbertsons for the same food that's $20 less dollars for us. Simple math to me.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
8/30/2006, 12:38 AM
WalMart rawks with succe$$. Get over it, leftists.

frankensooner
8/30/2006, 09:00 AM
<sigh> To each his own I guess. If you want to pay 10-15% higher across the board for your daily needs, go for it.

I hate Target. They routinely have the same items higher priced. I did notice they price matched WM's DVD prices. I guess they were tired of getting their *** kicked on sales.

A typical trip to WM costs my family about $150. My three kids like to eat...a lot. If I pay $20 more to go to Homeland or ALbertsons for the same food that's $20 less dollars for us. Simple math to me.

One of the local news station did a shopping spree last year at WM and Target. Buying the same everyday items, they actually spent something like twenty cents less at Target.

Crest foods pwns Wal Mart.

momark
9/15/2006, 12:25 AM
well bro if i was a non union wal mart brain washed arse licker i guess i would side with ya but since unions have made this country great and these poor right to work states {such as oklahoma ,as of a couple of yrs aga} are distroying it i have to disagree with your bit of slanted propaganda . god bless your retirement bro

GottaHavePride
9/15/2006, 12:26 AM
I give up. I need sleep.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
9/15/2006, 12:43 AM
well bro if i was a non union wal mart brain washed arse licker i guess i would side with ya but since unions have made this country great and these poor right to work states {such as oklahoma ,as of a couple of yrs aga} are distroying it i have to disagree with your bit of slanted propaganda . god bless your retirement broUS Auto industry...Good. WAL-MART...BAD!

mildpussy
9/15/2006, 12:48 AM
Wal-Mart has eliminated more poverty (http://igottarant.com/showthread.php?t=3462&highlight=poverty) than any other entity on earth.

Chambana's own George Will weighs in -

http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/behind_liberals_wal_mart_war_opedcolumnists_george _f__will.htm

BEHIND LIBERALS' WAL-MART WAR
By GEORGE F. WILL

September 14, 2006 -- EVERGREEN PARK, ILL.

THIS suburb, contiguous with Chicago's western edge, is 88 percent white. A large majority of the customers of the Wal-Mart that sits here, less than a block outside Chicago, are from the city and more than 90 percent of the store's customers are African-American.

One of whom, a woman pushing a shopping cart with a stoical 3-year-old along for the ride, has a chip on her shoulder about the size of this 141,000 square-foot Wal-Mart. She applied for a job when the store opened in January and was turned down because, she said, the person doing the hiring "had an attitude." So why is the woman shopping here anyway? She looks at the questioner as though he is dimwitted and directs his attention to the low prices of the DVDs on the rack next to her.

Sensibly, she compartmentalizes her moods and her money. Besides, she should not brood. She had lots of company in not being hired: More than 25,000 people applied for the 325 openings.

Which vexes liberals like John Kerry. (He and his helpmeet last shopped at Wal-Mart when?) In 2004 he tested what has become one of the Democrats' 2006 themes: Wal-Mart is, he said, "disgraceful" and symbolic of "what's wrong with America." By now, Democrats have succeeded, to their embarrassment (if they are susceptible to that), in making the basic numbers familiar:

The median household income of Wal-Mart shoppers is under $40,000. Wal-Mart, the most prodigious job-creator in the history of the private sector in this galaxy, has almost as many employees (1.3 million) as the U.S. military has uniformed personnel. A McKinsey company study concluded that Wal-Mart accounted for 13 percent of the nation's productivity gains in the second half of the 1990s, which probably made Wal-Mart about as important as the Federal Reserve in holding down inflation. By lowering consumer prices, Wal-Mart costs about 50 retail jobs among competitors for every 100 jobs Wal-Mart creates. Wal-Mart and its effects save shoppers more than $200 billion a year, dwarfing such government programs as food stamps ($28.6 billion) and the earned-income tax credit ($34.6 billion).

People who buy their groceries from Wal-Mart - it has one-fifth of the nation's grocery business - save at least 17 percent. But because unions are strong in many grocery stores trying to compete with Wal-Mart, unions are yanking on the Democrats' leash, demanding laws to force Wal-Mart to pay wages and benefits higher than those that already are high enough to attract 77 times more applicants than there were jobs at this store.

The big-hearted progressives on Chicago's City Council, evidently unconcerned that the city gets zero sales tax revenues from a half a billion dollars that Chicago residents spend in the 42 suburban Wal-Marts, have passed a bill that, by dictating wages and benefits, would keep Wal-Marts from locating in the city. Richard Daley, a bread-and-butter Democrat, used his first veto in 17 years as mayor to swat it away.

Liberals think their campaign against Wal-Mart is a way of introducing the subject of class into America's political argument, and they are more correct than they understand. Their campaign is liberalism as condescension. It is a philosophic repugnance toward markets because consumer sovereignty results in the masses making messes. Liberals, aghast, see the choices Americans make with their dollars and their ballots, and announce - yes, announce - that Americans are sorely in need of more supervision by . . . liberals.

Before they went on their bender of indignation about Wal-Mart (customers per week: 127 million), liberals had drummed McDonald's (customers per week: 175 million) out of civilized society because it is making us fat, or something. So, what next? Which preferences of ordinary Americans will liberals, in their role as national scolds, next disapprove? Baseball, hot dogs, apple pie and Chevrolet?

No. The current issue of The American Prospect, an impeccably progressive magazine, carries a full-page advertisement denouncing something responsible for "lies, deception, immorality, corruption, and widespread labor, human rights and environmental abuses" and of bringing "great hardship and despair to people and communities throughout the world."

What is this focus of evil in the modern world? North Korea? The Bush administration? Fox News Channel? No, it is Coca-Cola (number of servings to Americans of the company's products each week: 2.5 billion).

When liberals' presidential nominees consistently fail to carry Kansas, liberals do not rush to read a book titled "What's the Matter With Liberals' Nominees?" No, the book they turned into a best-seller is titled "What's the Matter With Kansas?" Notice a pattern?

[email protected]


What is the matter with Kansas anyway? Mangino for governor.

TUSooner
9/15/2006, 07:55 AM
hmmmm I saw that GW article yesterday. Maybe OhU1 wasn't exaggerating all THAT much. Or George is, a little.

heh :O

Like in some weird Frankenstein movie, I can see a mob of indignant Gucci-wearers, led by Kerry, storming Wal-Mart Castle while wielding state-of-the-art computerized garden implements from the Sharper Image.

I still don't like Wal-Mart as a symbol of the "blanding" of America, but its more arrogant opponents are worse.



I really must avoid these political threads.

Okla-homey
9/15/2006, 08:08 AM
You can buy socks, bank, get eyeglasses, drugs and groceries at Wally World. Personally, I think they should add tribal casinos and tittay bars in the snack bar area so you can mosey up and get a corndog, play the slots and get a lap dance while you're waiting to have your tires mounted. It would be huge!

OklahomaTuba
9/15/2006, 09:19 AM
well bro if i was a non union wal mart brain washed arse licker i guess i would side with ya but since unions have made this country great and these poor right to work states {such as oklahoma ,as of a couple of yrs aga} are distroying it i have to disagree with your bit of slanted propaganda . god bless your retirement bro

Now they are hurting American Industrial Competitiveness and hurting their workers and their familes even more by tricking them into a false sense of reality by thinking benefits and pay are the two most important thing a company must be concerned about.

GM is slowly dying as it spends more on health care benefits than it does on steele or re-investment back into the company. Just one example out of many.

I feel for the familes of workers that have lived off the teet of the unions for so long, as the whole system seems to be dying.

royalfan5
9/15/2006, 09:26 AM
Now they are hurting American Industrial Competitiveness and hurting their workers and their familes even more by tricking them into a false sense of reality by thinking benefits and pay are the two most important thing a company must be concerned about.

GM is slowly dying as it spends more on health care benefits than it does on steele or re-investment back into the company. Just one example out of many.
Of course, Wal-Mart's relentless squeezing of vendor's have helped fuel the shift of American Manufacturing overseas, and reduced the overall quality of goods American's buy. Sure goods are cheaper, but they are also not as good. That can be good or bad depending on how you look at it. Wal-Mart has singlehandedly destoyed some of it's vendor's. That might come back and bite them as they try to move more upscale in the market, as they have alienated some of the vendors the would need for this transition, e.g. Snapper lawn mowers. Wal-Mart's growth has almost peaked in America, and their same store growth is lagging. I bet in 10-15 years there will be a new business bogeyman in America, because Wal-Mart will be fading domestically, while likely thriving more overseas if they can successfully take on Carrefour and continue to succeed in China, and avoid failures like Germany and Korea.

sooner n houston
9/15/2006, 11:35 AM
Of course, Wal-Mart's relentless squeezing of vendor's have helped fuel the shift of American Manufacturing overseas, and reduced the overall quality of goods American's buy. Sure goods are cheaper, but they are also not as good.

Oh please, like American made is automatically better quality. There was a day when "Made In Japan" meant "Poor Quality". I think those days passed in the 80's. Now we see Japan quality as second to none in most cases, certianly not second to US made.

royalfan5
9/15/2006, 11:40 AM
Oh please, like American made is automatically better quality. There was a day when "Made In Japan" meant "Poor Quality". I think those days passed in the 80's. Now we see Japan quality as second to none in most cases, certianly not second to US made.
By poor quality, I mean cheaper materials. Thinner plastics, and what not. Look at a Wal-mart lawn mower, and compare it to a Snapper or Toro for an illustration. It has helped gear America to take a more disposable approach to many material goods by make cheap materials de rigor.

TUSooner
9/15/2006, 11:47 AM
Now they are hurting American Industrial Competitiveness and hurting their workers and their familes even more by tricking them into a false sense of reality by thinking benefits and pay are the two most important thing a company must be concerned about.

GM is slowly dying as it spends more on health care benefits than it does on steele or re-investment back into the company. Just one example out of many.

I feel for the familes of workers that have lived off the teet of the unions for so long, as the whole system seems to be dying.

I don't see that as an argument aganst unions, just an argument against stupid unions. Unions are good when they give the workers their fair bargaining power in the market place. When unions try to override the market, they are as evil as corporate monopolies and cartels and stuff . Of course, Leninist labor leaders (and stupid ones) don't care about the market place anyway.

sooner n houston
9/15/2006, 11:57 AM
I don't see that as an argument aganst unions, just an argument against stupid unions. Unions are good when they give the workers their fair bargaining power in the market place. When unions try to override the market, they are as evil as corporate monopolies and cartels and stuff . Of course, Leninist labor leaders (and stupid ones) don't care about the market place anyway.

TU, not ripping on you just curious, what labor unions do you see today that don't try to override the market? Most wind up hurting their members and forcing more and more jobs over seas, IMHO.

TUSooner
9/15/2006, 01:27 PM
TU, not ripping on you just curious, what labor unions do you see today that don't try to override the market? Most wind up hurting their members and forcing more and more jobs over seas, IMHO.
That's probably the natural tendency of all unions - self interest and stuff. That doesn't mean we outlaw them, it's just a good reason not to let them have everything they want.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
9/15/2006, 01:54 PM
I don't see that as an argument aganst unions, just an argument against stupid unions. Unions are good when they give the workers their fair bargaining power in the market place. When unions try to override the market, they are as evil as corporate monopolies and cartels and stuff . Of course, Leninist labor leaders (and stupid ones) don't care about the market place anyway.Unfortunately, this seems to be the nature of most, if not all unions nowadays. Edited note: Uh huh.

TUSooner
9/15/2006, 06:25 PM
Unfortunately, this seems to be the nature of most, if not all unions nowadays. Edited note: Uh huh.
Maybe, but it's just as much the nature of most companies to squeeze labor to the max. Don't get me wrong, I am not a union lover, not even the two I used to belong to (Teamsters and National Association of Letter Carriers). But I admit I benefitted from the power of those unions. Weak unions tempt management to oppress labor, which eventually weakens the enterprise; and weak mangement allows labor to override the good of the enterprise, and in some cases, the public good. Bottom line: a balance must be maintained in the rough & tumble of the real marketplace.

OCUDad
9/15/2006, 06:40 PM
TUSooner: I have a whole new respect for you. The combination of (a) ex-member of NALC and (b) member of the old farts clique makes you a very dangerous hombre.

<...tips hat and slowly backs out of the room...>

TUSooner
9/15/2006, 07:04 PM
TUSooner: I have a whole new respect for you. The combination of (a) ex-member of NALC and (b) member of the old farts clique makes you a very dangerous hombre.

<...tips hat and slowly backs out of the room...>

How'd you figure I was an old fart ?!?:confused:

:D

Heh. I said "fart" in my 7,000th post.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
9/15/2006, 07:37 PM
Maybe, but it's just as much the nature of most companies to squeeze labor to the max. Don't get me wrong, I am not a union lover, not even the two I used to belong to (Teamsters and National Association of Letter Carriers). But I admit I benefitted from the power of those unions. Weak unions tempt management to oppress labor, which eventually weakens the enterprise; and weak mangement allows labor to override the good of the enterprise, and in some cases, the public good. Bottom line: a balance must be maintained in the rough & tumble of the real marketplace.Collective Bargaining, the unions' biggest attraction, is the primary problem with unions. It doesn't allow the business to properly control its labor force.(hard to fire people who aren't working out, or pay them less)

TUSooner
9/15/2006, 08:11 PM
Collective Bargaining, the unions' biggest attraction, is the primary problem with unions. It doesn't allow the business to properly control its labor force.(hard to fire people who aren't working out, or pay them less)
One man's "proper control" is another man's oppression. :) The difficulty in getting rid of duds is a problem, but it can be done. The "primary problem" - collective bargaining - is also the raison d'etre of unions.
Since this started out as thread about Wal-Mart, lemme say that I don't begrudge them a bit for trying to stay non-union, as long as they take decent care of their folks people will want to work there, and more power to all. Wal-Mart has to keep its "associates" happy or they will eventually go union. I think that just the threat of unionization helps the common lot of the wage earner.

Theoretically, it would be good if the workers owned the company and their pay was tied directly to profits. But I'm no economist.

sooner n houston
9/20/2006, 09:14 AM
well bro if i was a non union wal mart brain washed arse licker i guess i would side with ya but since unions have made this country great and these poor right to work states {such as oklahoma ,as of a couple of yrs aga} are distroying it i have to disagree with your bit of slanted propaganda . god bless your retirement bro

Damn... I knew that when you found this board there would be problems in the family!!! :D