Detroit teachers to (maybe) go on strike

[Okla-homey]

Teachers in one of the worst public school systems in America are threatening not to report to work next week thus delaying the start of the school year.

They want more bucks. The city's offer of almost $90 million worth of concessions isn't enough. Its also against the law for teachers to strike in Michigan but these "ejucators" don't seem to mind. IMHO, if they do strike, the governor should just fire them all like Reagan did the illegally striking air traffic controllers back in the early 80's.

I am dumbfounded at their indignation and belief they actually deserve to receive higher pay for doing a horrible job.

FWIW, beginning teachers in Detroit make $36K. Experienced teachers with masters degrees make around $70K. A big sticking point is teachers hired after 1992 have 10% co-pays on their medical plans.:eek:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060821/NEWS01/608210330

:pop:

[Jerk]

10% co-pay? Wow!

Neal Bortz was discussing this healthcare thing a few days a go. The problem is that so many Americans are conditioned to believe that it's someone else's job to pay for their medical bills- whether it is government (taxpayers) or a company/corporation. I hope that socialised healthcare never gets through, but this is the reason it will. Our "entitlement culture" will be our downfall. Wouldn't that suck if you went to jail for paying a doctor of your choice to perform a medical service?

[Okla-homey]

10% co-pay? Wow!

Neal Bortz was discussing this healthcare thing a few days a go. The problem is that so many Americans are conditioned to believe that it's someone else's job to pay for their medical bills- whether it is government (taxpayers) or a company/corporation. I hope that socialised healthcare never gets through, but this is the reason it will. Our "entitlement culture" will be our downfall. Wouldn't that suck if you went to jail for paying a doctor of your choice to perform a medical service?

I don't care if we get "national healthcare" as long as private healthcare is allowed to exist alongside. Thereby, folks who can afford health insurance will contunue to get the world's best healthcare, and the folks who can't (or won't) afford health insurance will get free doctorin' at gubmint clinics and stuff.

That's pretty much the way it works now in Europe.

There is a problem though and I don't know how to solve it. Namely, all the smart docs and nurses will want to work in the private sector where the pay will be better. The ones who didn't do too well in doctor skool will have to work in the public sector. Think about it. :eek:

"Hillary-care" proposed to make private sector healthcare illegal under her scheme in order to prevent the above "problem." Folks should keep that in mind.

[Jerk]

In order to keep the nation from going broke, we will have to either raise taxes by 200% or we will have to cut entitlements by 60% (according to the GOA). This is over the next half century or so.

We don't need more programs.

[TUSooner]

Teachers' unions are the debbil. Teaahers deserve protection in the marketplace, but ... I dunno

[Okla-homey]

In order to keep the nation from going broke, we will have to either raise taxes by 200% or we will have to cut entitlements by 60% (according to the GOA). This is over the next half century or so.

We don't need more programs.

Here's the thing though Jerk-meister, po folks go to ER's for routine healthcare needs. That is costing us all indirectly b/c hospitals have to charge paying customers more in order to spread the loss.

IOW, we're already paying for it. Might as well institutionalize it. That way, the po folks will have their own places to go and get care from Pakistani docs, and the rest of us will have nice places to go and we won't have to wait in line with them.;) :D

[Frozen Sooner]

Teachers' unions are the debbil. Teaahers deserve protection in the marketplace, but ... I dunno

Mainly because the teacher's unions are ruled by the elementary teachers.

Elementary and secondary teachers have no business being in the same union. The qualifications are wildly different.

[Scott D]

What's not reported in that particular article Homey is that the DoE is pushing right now for what amounts to a salary decrease for teachers, while ADMINISTRATORS are/would be getting a pay raise. That was the serious issue of contention last year, and it's the serious issue of contention this year as well.

I don't support any teachers striking at any time. But on the other hand, I don't have any sympathy for any executives who make decisions to give 'upper management' raises while asking 'line workers' to take pay cuts for budget purposes.

[Frozen Sooner]

I don't support any teachers striking at any time.

Why?

There's no possible scenario in which you think a teacher's strike is justified?

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Again...HOW THE HELL IS A STRIKE ILLEGAL!!!!

[Frozen Sooner]

Again...HOW THE HELL IS A STRIKE ILLEGAL!!!!

It is legal for the local or federal government to make certain essential industries "strike proof." Air traffic control is such an industry.

Apparently Michigan feels like teaching is such a vital industry that they shouldn't be allowed to strike, but not vital enough to actually pay them.

Homey,that $70k figure is the top salary step. I don't know about Detroit, but in Anchorage you don't reach the top salary step until you've got 20+ years teaching.

edit: The CBA says no strike, which to me puts me squarely on the side of no-strike. You negotiated and validated a bad contract, peeps.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

I understand they are "vital industries" But this is like the Texas Rangers saying to Mark Teixeira, "You are too vital to the franchise, you will have to stay here and pay for less"

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

So like if they do strike..do they get arrested..because I can think of about 200 things law enforcement would be better off doing than arresting peaceful strikers

[Frozen Sooner]

Yes and no. I was much more sympathetic until I read that the CBA includes a no strike clause.

I also disagree that teaching is properly classified as a vital industry. The only reason it is classified as such is that too many parents rely on the school as a daycare of last resort.

[Scott D]

Why?

There's no possible scenario in which you think a teacher's strike is justified?

I can't really envision a scenario where conditions are so poor as to justify one. I guess it could be argued continuing to teach without a contract could be justifiable. But then we'd also have to envision scenarios where there would be no law enforcement in areas when their contract was up (which happens more often than people think it could).

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Seriously, isn't being a "vital industry" the whole point to striking. People at McDonald's don't strike because they aren't vital. I say being vital would be your biggest bargaining chip!

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

I think they would be justified if say they felt the safety of their students was in doubt but this isn't about this.

[Scott D]

Under Kwame Kilpatrick the only thing that is a "vital industry" is making sure his buddies get paid.

[Frozen Sooner]

I can't really envision a scenario where conditions are so poor as to justify one. I guess it could be argued continuing to teach without a contract could be justifiable. But then we'd also have to envision scenarios where there would be no law enforcement in areas when their contract was up (which happens more often than people think it could).

Suppose you have a district which refuses to bargain in good faith or refuses to put forth an equitable contract?

Case:

10 years ago, a large teachers union went to the bargaining table and said that they would be willing to take a pay freeze until the state budget was in better shape.

Now, the state budget is showing a huge surplus and the state has started kicking a bunch of money towards education.

The district comes back with a 3% pay increase offer-when the cost of living for just the last year has increased by 4.2%. They also cut health benefits-like, a lot.

Would a strike be justified if the district refuses to come back with a better offer?

In absence of a strike, what would you suggest that the union members do?

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Corrupt Politicians????? WOW YOU JUST BLEW MY MIND

[Scott D]

I think they would be justified if say they felt the safety of their students was in doubt but this isn't about this.

No it's about being continually asked to take concessions in salary year after year, while the DPS gives raises to Principals and up. The teachers are basically fed up with it and last year's stance was more along the lines of "quit giving them raises while asking us to give up some salary with promises of getting that salary back in the future". This year it's more of a "give them pay cuts and put us back where we should be in terms of salary"

[Scott D]

Suppose you have a district which refuses to bargain in good faith or refuses to put forth an equitable contract?

Case:

10 years ago, a large teachers union went to the bargaining table and said that they would be willing to take a pay freeze until the state budget was in better shape.

Now, the state budget is showing a huge surplus and the state has started kicking a bunch of money towards education.

The district comes back with a 3% pay increase offer-when the cost of living for just the last year has increased by 4.2%. They also cut health benefits-like, a lot.

Would a strike be justified if the district refuses to come back with a better offer?

In absence of a strike, what would you suggest that the union members do?

In the past few years, this'd make those teachers different than pretty much any non purely papertrail industry how?

[Frozen Sooner]

Seriously, isn't being a "vital industry" the whole point to striking. People at McDonald's don't strike because they aren't vital. I say being vital would be your biggest bargaining chip!

Heh. Vital is defined as being vital to the operation of the nation or state, not vital to the business.

McDonald's people don't strike because they're not unionized. Trust me-if everyone at a unionized restaurant struck, the business owner would realize in a hurry how vital they were.

[Frozen Sooner]

In the past few years, this'd make those teachers different than pretty much any non purely papertrail industry how?

You're telling me that everyone has kept wages level for the last ten years?

Bull

****.

[Frozen Sooner]

No it's about being continually asked to take concessions in salary year after year, while the DPS gives raises to Principals and up. The teachers are basically fed up with it and last year's stance was more along the lines of "quit giving them raises while asking us to give up some salary with promises of getting that salary back in the future". This year it's more of a "give them pay cuts and put us back where we should be in terms of salary"

Scott, we're on the same side in this issue, so my question to you is that since you don't think a strike is ever justified, what means do the teachers and their union have to rectify the situation?

[Scott D]

You're telling me that everyone has kept wages level for the last ten years?

Bull

****.

actually I was referring to the latter part of the case, not the initial circumstances.

everyone is cutting back benefits. I hear nightly news stories about union fights regarding the cutting of benefits and line worker salary cuts, but of course never anything about any sort of management wage or personnel cuts.


Scott, we're on the same side in this issue, so my question to you is that since you don't think a strike is ever justified, what means do the teachers and their union have to rectify the situation?

Unfortunately I don't have a good suggestion for this. The system is what it is, and personally I think it's more of a reflection about the complete loss of direction and accountable morality that our society is suffering from, and has been suffering from for well over a century. Most people just like to throw simplistic glasses on and say that the problem is unions existing when they are out of date now (like 80% of posters on the SO who make posts in political threads). This is more of a problem of how over time societally it's been gradually shifting from "we" to "I".