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Okla-homey
8/14/2006, 05:33 AM
August 14, 1935 Social Security Act Passed

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President Roosevelt signing Social Security Act of 1935 in the Cabinet Room of the White House. Also shown, left to right: Rep. Robert Doughton (D-NC); Sen. Robert Wagner (D-NY); Rep. John Dingell, Sr. (D-MI); Unknown man in bowtie; Secretary of Labor, Frances Perkins; Senator Pat Harrison (D-MS); Congressman David L. Lewis (D-MD). Library of Congress photo, LC-US262-123278.

While the Social Security Act was passed on August 14, 1935, the roots of the legislation can be traced back to the crash of 1929.

No one was particularly well prepared for the ensuing Depression, including the elderly. Government surveys taken during 1934 estimated that more than half of the nation's elderly lacked the means to support themselves. Clearly. they believed, the country needed some sort of system for providing for its aging citizens.

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Gov't produced poster widely distributed to inform folks about the new government program

Various pension schemes were hatched, including State-run pension programs, while America's leftist leaders marshaled surprising support for their economic proposals. But, as 1935 chugged along, the nation was still in need of a pension program. "New Deal"-ing U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt finally pushed a proposal through the Congress.

Compared to some of the other solutions developed at the time, the Social Security Act was relatively moderate: the bill mandated the now familiar "contributory system" in which workers forked over part of their salaries to a joint pension fund. As you'll see below, it was, and is, really a tax versus a contribution though.

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Another gov't poster

Shortly after the passage of the bill, the government wheeled into action, creating an elaborate system for collecting, collating and doling out pensions. By January of 1937, the Social Security program was open for business. Over the years, Americans have socked away over $4.5 trillion in the fund, while more than $4.1 trillion worth of benefits have been paid out to the nation's retired citizens.

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Yet another poster

The main thing that has changed since the concept's inception, is for years, people have been able to "draw" more than they themselves ever contributed -- sometimes a lot more. The system relies on the contributions (or taxes) of others who have not yet reached retirement age and begun to collect to cover the difference.

The future of Social Security...

Is uncertain. Opinions vary, but some eminent and esteemed experts would have us believe the current scheme simply isn't going to work for much longer as the monthly demand begins to exceed the fund's income. Most agree, that at some point in the future, that defecit will require a) a cut in benefits, b) an increase in the Social Security tax, or c) both.

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/3940/socialinsecurity0ko.jpg

One thing's for sure, as held by the US Supreme Court in 1958 in the landmark case, Fleming v. Nestor, Justice Harlan wrote in the majority opinion:
To engraft upon the Social Security system a concept of "accrued property rights" would deprive it of the flexibility and boldness in adjustment to ever-changing conditions which it demands. It was doubtless out of an awareness of the need for such flexibility that Congress included in the original Act, and has since retained, a clause expressly reserving to it "[t]he right to alter, amend, or repeal any provision of the Act...

We must conclude that a person covered by the Act has not such a right in benefit payments as would make every defeasance of "accrued" interests violative of the Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment. (boldness added)

Not to get all political, but merely to state facts, put another way, just because you "put money in," it doesn't necessarily follow that you'll get money back someday. Social Security has no contract with you or anyone else. It is not insurance. The original money-back guarantee had been removed in 1939. And the benefit cuts enacted in 1983 (gradually raised retirement age, benefit taxation, gradual cuts in the early retirement benefit) are further proof that one in fact has no real property rights.

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As an aside, if you believe the plan needs an overhaul, get smart on the issue, then let your congresspeople know you want action. It just might help. Afterall, whether you're Dem or GOP, that is the American way...but don't hold your breath. Until the gall-danged AARP changes its position, we are unlikey to have change because they (and a national political party which prominently features a donkey as its logo) have frightened papaw and meemaw who refuse to abide tinkering with the program.

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royalfan5
8/14/2006, 08:18 AM
I think you should be mentioned that Social Security also helps provide security for children who have lost parents. I recieved 17.5 years of social security, and believe me it is a tremendous benefit to single parents.

Okla-homey
8/14/2006, 08:31 AM
I think you should be mentioned that Social Security also helps provide security for children who have lost parents. I recieved 17.5 years of social security, and believe me it is a tremendous benefit to single parents....Personally, and this is just my opinion and not meant as a personal attack, I would prefer people have life insurance to ensure their children's future rather than reliance on a federal tax supported entitlement program.

royalfan5
8/14/2006, 09:00 AM
...Personally, and this is just my opinion and not meant as a personal attack, I would prefer people have life insurance to ensure their children's future rather than reliance on a federal tax supported entitlement program.
We did, but the way I see it my dad was tremendously successful in his short life, and paid in quite a bit in social security contributions, if he doesn't get to use that money, why not me? The way I see it, I would rather children benefit, and not be punished by their parents shortsideness in not getting life insurance,. I was lucky because my mom had a career to fall back on, there are a lot of people, especially from farm and rural backgrounds like me who would have not been nearly as lucky if their father passed away because of the tax burden of inheriting a farm, and their mothers not having a career to fall back on. If there is going to be a safety net of old folks, I think children are just as deserving.

soonerjoker
8/14/2006, 09:28 AM
my wife & i draw SSI pensions that i feel are quite generous.

i'm not givin any back, tho. except to IRS.

jeremy885
8/14/2006, 10:34 AM
The main thing that has changed since the concept's inception, is for years, people have been able to "draw" more than they themselves ever contributed -- sometimes a lot more. The system relies on the contributions (or taxes) of others who have not yet reached retirement age and begun to collect to cover the difference.



Hopefully they would be able to draw on more then they contributed? Would you want 1950's and 1960's $s not adjusted for inflation? Would you like to be forced into getting less than what you contributed to from a "forced" pension scheme?

What do you mean a lot more? Are you talking about the disability payments , people that only worked for the minimum number of quarters and are receving a check, or something else?

Okla-homey
8/14/2006, 10:51 AM
Hopefully they would be able to draw on more then they contributed? Would you want 1950's and 1960's $s not adjusted for inflation? Would you like to be forced into getting less than what you contributed to from a "forced" pension scheme?

What do you mean a lot more? Are you talking about the disability payments , people that only worked for the minimum number of quarters and are receving a check, or something else?

My meemaw contributed about $1500.00 bucks worth when she worked outside the home for afew years in the late 1940's. At 65, she drew around 500.00 a month til the day she died twenty years later at 85.

That's kinda upside down if you ask me. I didn't begrudge her those checks, but it simply seems impractical from the taxpayers point-of-view to moi. That said, if what the American people want is a program which entitles folks to a check a month at retirement age irrespective of their contibutions and how long they are likely to live, then that's okay I guess, but I am saying that is NOT what it was billed as when it was originally passed. It has grown into something much more and (I know, blinding flash of the obvious) today's beneficiaries are being carried on the backs of those getting a paycheck today.

tbl
8/14/2006, 11:07 AM
I think the privatized accounts would make everybody happy. Like royal, I received SS benefits when my dad took the dirt nap. Obviously since he paid in, I should receive it, and it should continue that way as long as we're under the current system. However, they could privatize everything under the same format and the kids would still receive benefits, but with more potential for growth.

I still can't believe the republicans chickened out on this...

SicEmBaylor
8/14/2006, 11:24 AM
I'm not even going to get started. I'm stressed out enough today.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
8/14/2006, 12:56 PM
The Social Security system is FDR socialism by definition. I think the dims are so set against reform because of their adoration of FDR. The repubs are just scared of being unloved, and severely chastized in the media by the dims and their accomplices.
"As an aside, if you believe the plan needs an overhaul, get smart on the issue, then let your congresspeople know you want action. It just might help. Afterall, whether you're Dem or GOP, that is the American way...but don't hold your breath. Until the gall-danged AARP changes its position, we are unlikey to have change because they (and a national political party which prominently features a donkey as its logo) have frightened papaw and meemaw who refuse to abide tinkering with the program."-Homey

OhU1
8/14/2006, 01:19 PM
Those old geezers lined up behind FDR look like they are ready to pounce and get a check!

Favor don't kid yourself the GOP is into Social Security hook, line, and sinker. The last Republican who spoke out against Social Security as being socialist was probably Senator Robert Taft Jr and his crowd in the 40s.

Getting more than you paid in and substained by others who come in later - sounds like a Ponzi scheme!

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
8/14/2006, 01:23 PM
The repubs won't speak their minds because they KNOW the repurcussions of doing so. They fear losing their jobs, and SHOULD have that fear. It will take a grassroots effort, as Homey suggested, to effect change.

soonervegas
8/14/2006, 01:33 PM
I am a moderate Republican and I do think there is a place for social security in our countries future. I make pretty good to great money and will probably dump a ton into SS before I retire. I have no problems with another person that has worked all their life (and maybe made 30% of what I make) getting the same amount of SS check as I do. I think many of us from "single parent" families would take issue on the privitization of SS or only taking out only what you take in. Many of these people work just as hard or harder as you and I do.......and should have some form of protection when they retire. Just my 2 cents......

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
8/14/2006, 01:54 PM
I am a moderate Republican and I do think there is a place for social security in our countries future... Many of these people work just as hard or harder as you and I do.......and should have some form of protection when they retire. Just my 2 cents......Wasn't Social Security, as envisioned by FDR, intended to be a supplemental source of income for the retired-not a full retirement program? Whatever, the thing is a monster that needs LOTS of changes made to it.

SicEmBaylor
8/14/2006, 05:58 PM
I am a moderate Republican and I do think there is a place for social security in our countries future. I make pretty good to great money and will probably dump a ton into SS before I retire. I have no problems with another person that has worked all their life (and maybe made 30% of what I make) getting the same amount of SS check as I do. I think many of us from "single parent" families would take issue on the privitization of SS or only taking out only what you take in. Many of these people work just as hard or harder as you and I do.......and should have some form of protection when they retire. Just my 2 cents......

There is a place for a government retirement program in some shape, form, or fashion. The place for it is on the STATE level not the Federal level.

We occasionally have to write up policy papers, and I did one a few years ago on a state-sponsored retirement program to replace social security. The gist of it is that each individual would be provided a tax-free retirement account. Each paycheck (or if you're self-employed or along those lines then a % of your income each year) a certain % would be automatically withdrawn and put into your private account. The individual could add as much money in additional funds as they want, but by law that minimum amount would automatically be deposited. Upon reaching retirement age that accumulated income is yours.

Stoop Dawg
8/14/2006, 06:15 PM
We've had these threads before. The short answer is, IMO:

1. Abolish SS immediately.
2. Continue to pay benefits to "needy" (see Welfare)
3. Increase income tax to cover any deficit.

Yes, I realize it's not a huge change from what we have now, but it accomplishes two things:

1. It calls a spade a spade. As Homey said, SS is NOT a retirement plan. It's a tax. Let's just call it that.

2. It does what most people want - reduce benefits to the "rich".

3. By abolishing SS and supplanting it with welfare, we now only have to reform one monster of a program (welfare) instead of two.

Mixer!
8/15/2006, 02:37 AM
sounds like a Ponzi scheme!
Bingo.