Just got back from talking to the law skool n00bs

[Okla-homey]

First year, day one. The big bugs in the administration asked me and a few others to come impart my considerable wisdom on how to be successful and well-adjusted during the first year. Many bright and happy faced new supplicants to become Satan's acolytes via the TU kollege of laws. I told 'em what to do, hopefully they'll follow through -- or quit and go to business school. I explained it's best not to troll SF.com during class -- although I did a time or two.

Note to Bri: Much hawtness present...and I told them to check out "The Buck" purely for your benefit. Because I'm a giver.

I did not tell them, "If Gilbert Don't make it, don't take it"

[royalfan5]

All the cool kids quit and go to business school.

[hurricane'bone]

First year, day one. The big bugs in the administration asked me and a few others to come impart my considerable wisdom on how to be successful and well-adjusted during the first year. Many bright and happy faced new supplicants to become Satan's acolytes via the TU kollege of laws. I told 'em what to do, hopefully they'll follow through -- or quit and go to business school. I explained it's best not to troll SF.com during class -- although I did a time or two.

Note to Bri: Much hawtness present...and I told them to check out "The Buck" purely for your benefit. Because I'm a giver.

I did not tell them, "If Gilbert Don't make it, don't take it"


:mad:

And you all have already started?

[Okla-homey]

All the cool kids quit and go to agri-business school.

fixed it.;)

[royalfan5]

Well Agri-business school is a like an extra-special business school because we get to learn extra sweet skills.

[Okla-homey]

Well Agri-business school is a like an extra-special business school because we get to learn extra sweet skills.

You guys should have bumper stickers:

If you got food, thank an agri-businessman

[royalfan5]

You guys should have bumper stickers:

If you got food, thank an agri-businessman
That can be our next fundraiser. First we are going to sell Frank Solich passout pillows for car steering wheels.

With as many fat americans as there is, Agribusiness is going to be good for awhile.

[AlbqSooner]

I did not tell them, "If Gilbert Don't make it, don't take it"
I guess times have changed since I went to Law School. :P

[BoogercountySooner]

Homey said Kollege Heh Heh Heh!!!

[critical_phil]

With as many fat americans as there is, Agribusiness is going to be good for awhile.


did you genetically engineer an oreo tree?



please tell me you did.........

[royalfan5]

did you genetically engineer an oreo tree?



please tell me you did.........
Not yet, the Nutter Butter tree will be first, and if the U.S. ever loosens up, round-up ready pot. Then the oreo tree.

[ultimatesooner1]

Not yet, the Nutter Butter tree will be first, and if the U.S. ever loosens up, round-up ready pot. Then the oreo tree.


I'm so gonna be an agri businessman when this hits :D

[olevetonahill]

AGRI Buisnessman = sheep pimp ?

[TUSooner]

I can hear it....

Awright beyonces, listen up. Here's the secret to success in this hear lar skule dealio. First, go away and spend yourself a 20- or 30 year career in the Armed Forces of these United States of America, then you might be ready. That is all. Now get out.

[royalfan5]

AGRI Buisnessman = sheep pimp ?
I'm not going to Okie State. AGRI-Business=Grain Merchant.

[okienole3]

It is a nice feeling knowing that I don't have to go back to law school. Now all I need to worry about is whether or not I passed the bar.

[1stTimeCaller]

It is a nice feeling knowing that I don't have to go back to law school. Now all I need to worry about is whether or not I passed the bar.
Sugar's was probably the only bar I ever passed when I lived in Norman.

[okienole3]

Sugar's was probably the only bar I ever passed when I lived in Norman.


Wise choice my friend, wise choice.

[TexasLidig8r]

Homey: "Alright kids... Rule No. 1... whatever happens at law school, ... stays at law school."

Rule No. 2.. soonerfans.com... a nice respite from your boring routine.

Rule No. 3... Hadley v. Baxendale.. the case of the hairy hand... read it.. know it.. live it.

Rule No. 4... Sex up whoever you want knowing that in all probability, they will NOT be your life long partners.

Rule No. 5...Be nice to me.. one of you may be lucky enough to be my employee one day!"

[Okla-homey]

Rule No. 3... Hadley v. Baxendale.. the case of the hairy hand... read it.. know it.. live it.


What relevance could a 19th century English case involving consequential damages suffered by a mill owner possibly have to life in America in the 21st century? We got our own laws and don't give a spit what furrin courts got to say about nuthin';)

[BeetDigger]

All the cool kids quit and go to business school.


Correct. And the interesting thing is who ends up working for whom. My primary firm lost business when I couldn't get ahold of the partner or the associate when I had to respond to a suit fast. I sent it to our other firm. Our other firm is the crap however. I am shopping for a new one as we speak.

[Oldnslo]

PM sent

[FaninAma]

One question for you barristers on the board. What was the motivating factor in your decision to go to law school?

I understand the old addage "Different strokes for diffrerent folks" but it just seems that it would be a profession where you never have a happy client. Either your client is ****ed off because they're getting sued, they're ****ed off and suing someone, they're ****ed off because they're in jail or they're ****ed off because they've got to spend money to have an attorney look over or draw up a contract or agrrement to prevent being sued.

That just seems like it would get old after a while.

Is there a big burnout factor among attorneys?

[Viking Kitten]

Okay... so I recently attended a screening of a new documentary about the hell that is the first semester of law school. It followed eight 1Ls and was produced by an Oklahoma lawyer/filmmaker. It looked grueling, scary and exhausting.

Also, nearly every lawyer I know (and suffice it to say I know a few) advises people not to become lawyers, and they all make very logical arguments as to why not. It's a very difficult profession to be in.

So armed with all this information, I'm really considering law school. Does that make me masochistic, stupid or just wierd?

[Okla-homey]

Okay... so I recently attended a screening of a new documentary about the hell that is the first semester of law school. It followed eight 1Ls and was produced by an Oklahoma lawyer/filmmaker. It looked grueling, scary and exhausting.

Also, nearly every lawyer I know (and suffice it to say I know a few) advises people not to become lawyers, and they all make very logical arguments as to why not. It's a very difficult profession to be in.

So armed with all this information, I'm really considering law school. Does that make me masochistic, stupid or just wierd?

Go for it. You gotta have goals in life or you just drift and can become bitter. Plus, I bet you would be fun to be around in a law firm setting.:D

[Viking Kitten]

Plus, I bet you would be fun to be around in a law firm setting.:D

Oh believe me, If I shoveled **** for a living, I'd figure out a way to have fun. :D

So Homey, was your first year as bad as everyone says it is?

[Okla-homey]

Oh believe me, If I shoveled **** for a living, I'd figure out a way to have fun. :D

So Homey, was your first year as bad as everyone says it is?

I think the thing is, the vast majority of law students go right out of college and never had a job where they had to do stuff they didn't want to do but had to in order to keep the gig.

Its more about self-discipline, working smart (not just hard) and keeping it all in perpsective. Also, I didn't have the distractions posed by all the schoolyard romances and the wide-wide-world of nightlife and clubbing. See, most of these first-year people are still excited about being 22 and legal to drink and the hormones are still kicking like a pack of ninjas.

To directly answer your question, I've had much harder jobs, I quite enjoyed the experience and I did pretty well (made law review.) Your mileage may vary but if its what you want to do you should go for it.

peem me if you ever want to talk about details.

[frankensooner]

I loved Law School and everyone around me thought I was weird. I think it was the first time I was actually ever challenged in an educational setting in an area I actually liked. First year was a little scary to me, but I was only 22. Once you settle into the routine, it isn't very bad, but then again, I said I loved it.

[Viking Kitten]

I do loves me a good challenge.

[TexasLidig8r]

One question for you barristers on the board. What was the motivating factor in your decision to go to law school?

I understand the old addage "Different strokes for diffrerent folks" but it just seems that it would be a profession where you never have a happy client. Either your client is ****ed off because they're getting sued, they're ****ed off and suing someone, they're ****ed off because they're in jail or they're ****ed off because they've got to spend money to have an attorney look over or draw up a contract or agrrement to prevent being sued.

That just seems like it would get old after a while.

Is there a big burnout factor among attorneys?

Fan.. it depends on the type of law you practice. For example, I can't imagine being a corporate type attorney chained to my desk, reviewing documents every hour of every day of every month of every year... ugg.

Nor, can I imagine doing criminal defense work... you'd have to be paid in advance (which isn't a bad thing) but you are dealing with .. well.. criminals (and more often than not, they did do the crime of which they are accused).

I know a number of attorneys who are victims of burn out.. the stress, pressure and Mickey Mouse rules can be a bit much.

On the other hand, when you have your own practice.. a stable foundation of clients, have paralegals and assistants doing most of the tedious grunt work and have a practice that has evolved into a nationwide practice (long story)... going to court is fun, exciting, rewarding.... the adrenaline rush is great.

Like being a poster from a rival school on the football board though.. you have to have a very thick skin, think on your feet, be intelligent and know when to poke the tiger.. and when not to.! :D

[FaninAma]

Fan.. it depends on the type of law you practice. For example, I can't imagine being a corporate type attorney chained to my desk, reviewing documents every hour of every day of every month of every year... ugg.

Nor, can I imagine doing criminal defense work... you'd have to be paid in advance (which isn't a bad thing) but you are dealing with .. well.. criminals (and more often than not, they did do the crime of which they are accused).

I know a number of attorneys who are victims of burn out.. the stress, pressure and Mickey Mouse rules can be a bit much.

On the other hand, when you have your own practice.. a stable foundation of clients, have paralegals and assistants doing most of the tedious grunt work and have a practice that has evolved into a nationwide practice (long story)... going to court is fun, exciting, rewarding.... the adrenaline rush is great.

Like being a poster from a rival school on the football board though.. you have to have a very thick skin, think on your feet, be intelligent and know when to poke the tiger.. and when not to.! :D

I guess any job has it's tedious side....even being a gigolo for Hollywood starletts. :D

I can also see where going to court would be a rush. I'm sure there is a thrill to seeing if you can kick opposing counsel's @$$.

I must say I have been fortunate enough to have always had attorneys representing me in business matters who were honest,and were very conscientous about their job and representing my interests. Of course it seems that if you're astute you can pick up on which attorneys are more interested in the retainer rather than doing what's in the client's best interest.

So even though I enjoy a good lawyer joke as much as the next guy I really can't say that I have more than one bad experience with an attorney. And I got rid of that guy pretty quickly.

[OhU1]

I loved Law School and everyone around me thought I was weird. I think it was the first time I was actually ever challenged in an educational setting in an area I actually liked. First year was a little scary to me, but I was only 22. Once you settle into the routine, it isn't very bad, but then again, I said I loved it.

I had the same experience. Loved law school and did well even though my high school and undergrad GPA never cracked 3.0.

I started having a lot of fun after about the 3rd week when I figured out the general routine and expectations. My friends from law school are friends for life. Sure there is stress and pressure at times but you put in the work and have fun.

[BeetDigger]

The two law classes I took while in b-school were great. I enjoyed them, although they were a lot of work. Not any more work than the b-school classes however. My b-school classes had a 5-20 page case along with a 3-5 page case to hand in, usually with substantial financial analysis and around 50-75 pages of additional reading each week. B-Law had around 50-75 pages of reading each week, usually in the form of cases.

As a side note, I just saw in CFO magazine a list of the key Deleware cases regarding boards and their ability to be sued. I had read every case that had been decided up until the time I had taken the class. Conspicuously missing was the Revlon case which introduced the term Revlon duties. Duty of Care, Duty of Loyalty ... all were listed.

[Oldnslo]

I didn't much like law school, but I love being a lawyer.

Most of the time.

...and I generally advise people not to become a lawyer, mostly because people usually give a poor reason for wanting to be a lawyer. It sure ain't about the money.

[47straight]

I think the thing is, the vast majority of law students go right out of college and never had a job where they had to do stuff they didn't want to do but had to in order to keep the gig.

Its more about self-discipline, working smart (not just hard) and keeping it all in perpsective. Also, I didn't have the distractions posed by all the schoolyard romances and the wide-wide-world of nightlife and clubbing. See, most of these first-year people are still excited about being 22 and legal to drink and the hormones are still kicking like a pack of ninjas.

To directly answer your question, I've had much harder jobs, I quite enjoyed the experience and I did pretty well (made law review.) Your mileage may vary but if its what you want to do you should go for it.

Everything that Homey said. ESPECIALLY "the vast majority of law students go right out of college and never had a job where they had to do stuff they didn't want to do but had to in order to keep the gig"

Law school is unbearable mostly for those who just go to postpone or vacation from the real world for a few years. The right attitude (i.e. don't be a *********) and an appreciation for intellectual excercise can make it decently enjoyable.

[AlbqSooner]

OK, and now from a law practice burnout.

I practiced 20 years, with every minute of it in trial practice.

Lid got this one right on the money. The rush of going to court is absolutely awesome. That is the only thing that kept me in it as long as I was.

OldnSlo also got it right on the money. If money is the motivation to go to law school, there are many ways to make more money more easily than practicing law. As a lawyer, if you really bust your hiney for 10-15 years you will be making a comfortable living, well above the national average, but well below those who went into any of several other professions/businesses.

The practice changed so vastly between the time I was sworn in on Friday the 13th (an omen perhaps) of October, 1978, and the time I walked away from it in May, 1988. At the time I started, there were a handful of practicioners who were interested in shooting the lock off their clients pocketbook and then doing just enough to keep from getting sued. By the time I walked away, they may have been the majority.

It is extremely frustrating to prepare your Motion, do your research, and KNOW that your position is well taken and then appear before a judge who owes his or her black robe to the fact that his grandfather used to be on the State Supreme Court. A judge who, despite his lineage, hasn't bothered to learn much about the law and is not particularly curious at present.

It is also extremely frustrating to deal with practicioners who, if they ever read the code of ethics, either failed to comprehend the concept or made the conscious decision that if ethics gets in the way of making money, making money wins the day.

After 20 years of practicing law, I was taking anti-depressants, seeing a psych every 2-3 weeks, sleeping only 3 hours at a stretch, my blood pressure was running consistently in the range of 150/115, and I hated going to the office in the morning due to the fact that I was going to have to spend the day dealing with way too many lawyers I did not trust, judges I did not respect, criminals I did not care for, insurance adjusters I despised, and clients whose expectations changed substantially from the time they retained me until the time I obtained results that exceeded those initial expectations. By then they thought they had gotten less than what they deserved.

If you take a poll of attorneys who have been practicing more than 5 years, and they are honest in their responses, the vast majority would tell you that they would do something else if they could while maintaining the same level of income.

Since I left the practice of law, I no longer take any anti-depressants, no longer see a psych, sleep 6-8 hours every night, have my blood pressure running a consistent 115/85, enjoy most of my time at work, like and respect most of the people I work with and for, and generally enjoy life.

Admittedly I do miss the Jury Trials, but to me it just was not worth dealing with the rest of what is involved in practicing law for me to continue doing it.