Berry Tramel Article

[FaninAma]

Did anyone read his article in the DOK this moring? If you did, do you agree with him? I read it and at first I was ticked, but he really states some valid points which are:

1.The OU compliance office and Stoops fell asleep at the wheel in so much as they aren't scrutinizing the boosters enough, especially those who have caused problems in the past.
2.OU lowered the hammer on the players but they treated Kelvin Sampson with kid gloves and the Sampson fiasco is a big reason that OU may receive more severe penalties.
3.The buck stops on Stoops, Castiglione's and Boren's desk.

At the end of the article I agreed with Berry. Yuck, now I feel all dirty.

[jk the sooner fan]

havent there been problems with BRSI in the past? if so, then yes....the compliance dept should have put that place OFF limits

[OUDoc]

Yeah, but all those saying the "renegade days are back" are full of it. Unless they find something more, phone calls and claiming more hours than you worked is NOT rape, drugs and machine gun fire.

[OklahomaTuba]

Stoop's isn't Romar's or Quinn's daddy.

They knew what the hell they were doing.

In the words of Tater Salad, "you can't fix stupid."

[FaninAma]

Yeah, but all those saying the "renegade days are back" are full of it. Unless they find something more, phone calls and claiming more hours than you worked is NOT rape, drugs and machine gun fire.

Well, that brings us to another point in his article which is that because of OU's sordid past under Switzer OU needs to be squeaky clean and it's not going to take those sort of occurences to allow the OU detractors to say "See, I told you they were still the same ol' OU."

I do disagree with his assertion that the Bomar/Quinn trangressions should have been seen earlier due to the fact that Peterson had ran into problems already with BRS&I. I don't see how they could have been discovered because they occured at almost the same time: ie. in the fall of 2005.

[BOOMERBRADLEY]

Yeah, but all those saying the "renegade days are back" are full of it. Unless they find something more, phone calls and claiming more hours than you worked is NOT rape, drugs and machine gun fire.

Well the media sure considers them equal

[TheUnnamedSooner]

Tramel is an idiot. The buck does not ultimately stop at stoops', boren's, or castiglione's. What else can they do except educate? They can't be with every player all the time, the buck stops with the player and the booster. God, I'm glad I don't have to read his siht anymore

[FaninAma]

Oh, one other point in the article was that Tramel asserts that the sense of entitlement starts at the top with the coaches. He points to their sweetheart deals for the coaches with free cars from local car dealers despite the fact they are paid very well and the fact that the coaches expect these things.

Again, I agree with him.

[TheUnnamedSooner]

Again, I agree with him.


Again, Tramel is an idiot.

[Sooner-N-KS]

If I understood the coach right in the press conference, he said that he didn't know that Bomar was working, and he wasn't supposed to be working during the season. If Bomar went over and clocked in and left or if he just turned in a time card for those hours, how is the university supposed to know? Stoops said that there's a lot of things they can't know unless they are told by the violators.

[jk the sooner fan]

i have issues with state employees taking free cars as well.......how is that not an ethics violation?

[FaninAma]

Again, Tramel is an idiot.

In most things he is. On this matter he is right on spot.

Sooner-N-Ks, I would expect the staff and complaince office to be aware of where their players are working and I would expect them to know that a lot of players worked at BRS&I and should have had some drop in inspections of the place.

The coaches at big D-1 programs, not just OU's, do seem to have their hands out for whatever they can get. I'm not criticizing this. What I am criticizing is the fact that the coaches, the University, the community and worst of all, the NCAA derives alot of reward form the blood, sweat and tears of these athletes but then they tell them "Do as I say, don't do as I do.".

It's hypocritical and a double standard.

The NCAA needs to rot and burn in hell. It's the epitomy of a tyrannical, beaurocratic organization and it's operating on the back's of the athlete's. The NCAA is no better than the corporations that operate with child labor in 3rd world countries.

[TheUnnamedSooner]

Go to Dallas Morning News' website and read Blackstone's article, he is more on spot than Tramel. I'm not agreeing with NCAA, but while we have them, our athletes need to follow the rules. Which are given to them when they get here.

[Sooner-N-KS]

Sooner-N-Ks, I would expect the staff and complaince office to be aware of where their players are working and I would expect them to know that a lot of players worked at BRS&I and should have had some drop in inspections of the place.


I agree that the university should know where the players are working. The problem is THEY ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE WORKING DURING THE SEASON!!!. With this being the case, and we know that all parties involved knew they were doing something wrong, do you think Bomar let the university know he was working?

Bomar knew he was doing something wrong.

Bomar knew he wasn't supposed to be working during the season/pre-season.

Bomar didn't tell the university that he was still being paid by Big Red.

Bomar is a sneak and a cheat.

The University of Oklahoma staff can't read minds.

[hurricane'bone]

Oh, one other point in the article was that Tramel asserts that the sense of entitlement starts at the top with the coaches. He points to their sweetheart deals for the coaches with free cars from local car dealers despite the fact they are paid very well and the fact that the coaches expect these things.

Again, I agree with him.


Please....TU's coaches get new cars every 4-5 months...it happens everywhere.

[FaninAma]

Go to Dallas Morning News' website and read Blackstone's article, he is more on spot than Tramel. I'm not agreeing with NCAA, but while we have them, our athletes need to follow the rules. Which are given to them when they get here.

I disagree. The NCAA is the only game in town and thus is a monopoly. Monopolies tend to get tyrannical and abusive....just like the NCAA has. The Universities go along because they get huge benefits by cozying up to the NCAA. In reality there should be another organization that Universities could join just to keep the NCAA honest. Also, someone really needs to protect the interests of the athletes better.

Too bad the CFA didn't go anywhere.

[FaninAma]

I agree that the university should know where the players are working. The problem is THEY ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE WORKING DURING THE SEASON!!!. With this being the case, and we know that all parties involved knew they were doing something wrong, do you think Bomar let the university know he was working?

Bomar knew he was doing something wrong.

Bomar knew he wasn't supposed to be working during the season/pre-season.

Bomar didn't tell the university that he was still being paid by Big Red.

Bomar is a sneak and a cheat.

The University of Oklahoma staff can't read minds.

So the coaches and the complaince staff didn't have a good enough relationship with their players to have any one player come in and say< "Coach, I think Rhett's screwing up and may be getting the program in trouble."?

And they can't see the type of cars the athletes are driving and check the situation out?

If true, that's scary.

[Sooner-N-KS]

So the coaches and the complaince staff didn't have a good enough relationship with their players to have any one player come in and say< "Coach, I think Rhett's screwing up and may be getting the program in trouble."?

And they can't see the type of cars the athletes are driving and check the situation out?

If true, that's scary.

FaninAma,

OK, let's say that you're Bomar, and you're the cheater that he is. Do you carry out your scheme as quietly as you can, or do you go tell the other guys about your scam? Do you guys actually think he actually said, "I'll catch up with you guys at practice. I have to clock in at work first."

IT WAS A SECRET!

What type of car was Bomar driving? You made the accusation, and I'm in the dark on this one. If you're talking about AD we know that they were trying to buy it, but his family decided that the payments would be too much so he returned it.

[TheUnnamedSooner]

I disagree. The NCAA is the only game in town and thus is a monopoly. Monopolies tend to get tyrannical and abusive....just like the NCAA has. The Universities go along because they get huge benefits by cozying up to the NCAA. In reality there should be another organization that Universities could join just to keep the NCAA honest. Also, someone really needs to protect the interests of the athletes better.

Too bad the CFA didn't go anywhere.

I don't think any of us on here is going to disagree that the ncaa sucks balls and is power-hungry. However, it is the reality that we have to live with. It's not like all of a sudden these rules were pushed onto "the Idiot", he knew the rules, ACCEPTED the rules when he came to OU, and sneakily broke them. The point I was trying to make, is that he knew the rules and responsibilies, and is his fault he broke them, not Stoops, Boren, etc...

[Dio]

Maybe Stoops should just have all his players' bank statements, time cards, etc. sent right to his desk. Their parents' too. Geez, we found the problem and took care of it- anybody who reads anything more into it is either looking for an excuse to slam us or win a Pulitzer. Period.

[TUSooner]

Oh, one other point in the article was that Tramel asserts that the sense of entitlement starts at the top with the coaches. He points to their sweetheart deals for the coaches with free cars from local car dealers despite the fact they are paid very well and the fact that the coaches expect these things.

Again, I agree with him.
Professional coaches are not college students. The comparison is terribly lame (to be polite about it).

[sooneron]

Why does someone that makes 2.5 M a year need a free car? Especially in Oklahoma!

[jk the sooner fan]

Professional coaches are not college students. The comparison is terribly lame (to be polite about it).

they are state employees are they not?

are they receiving an entitlement because of their position?

[Widescreen]

What Bomar and Quinn did gave no competitive recruiting advantage to OU. The only way that could be argued is if evidence is uncovered that BRSI promised Bomar a bunch of money during the recruiting process. The people that are trying to say this shows that OU is a renegade program are really reaching.

[FaninAma]

FaninAma,

OK, let's say that you're Bomar, and you're the cheater that he is. Do you carry out your scheme as quietly as you can, or do you go tell the other guys about your scam? Do you guys actually think he actually said, "I'll catch up with you guys at practice. I have to clock in at work first."

IT WAS A SECRET!

What type of car was Bomar driving? You made the accusation, and I'm in the dark on this one. If you're talking about AD we know that they were trying to buy it, but his family decided that the payments would be too much so he returned it.

So you're telling me that no other players knew what was going on with the QB of the team and one of the OL in regards to the BRS&I deal? I find that hard to believe.

And yes, I am referencing the AD car deal. It was only after the story blew up that OU checked it out. And from what I understand, DJ wolfe has a pretty sweet ride. Now that situation may be on the up and up but has the complaince office and the coaches checked it our thoroughly...meaning have they done more than just take the player's word on how he came into possesion of the car?

And what is your opinion of the assertion that the players see the coaches with their hands out to these boosters and then ask why they can't do the same thing? I think it's a very valid and legitimate question.

[TheUnnamedSooner]

And what is your opinion of the assertion that the players see the coaches with their hands out to these boosters and then ask why they can't do the same thing? I think it's a very valid and legitimate question.


Well, it is against the rules for players to get things and not coaches. The coaches have a job, the players are just college students. Whenever they become coaches, then they can have those things. Something to look forward and work towrads.

[FaninAma]

Professional coaches are not college students. The comparison is terribly lame (to be polite about it).

Bullcrap. These 18,19 and 20 year old kids see the coaches getting freebies form the fatcat boosters. If the coaches are dealing with them I can totally understand where a 19 year old player would be tempted to accept an offer from one of these boosters. After all, the coaches are the only ones thay can use as examples.

The coaches' behavior should be beyong reproach. Accepting favors directly from boosters and corporations reeks in my opinion. All income should go through the university and then be distributed in the way the see fit. That's the way the system works at most businesses. If I go out and earn money while representing my employer or because of an oppotunitythat arose due to where I was employed that money goes to my employer. Now I do get a bonus and I do get raises based on my production....but so does Stoops.

[Sooner-N-KS]

So you're telling me that no other players knew what was going on with the QB of the team and one of the OL in regards to the BRS&I deal? I find that hard to believe.


I didn't say that. I'm guessing that JD Quinn, as Bomar's roommate, knew about it.

[Sooner-N-KS]

And what is your opinion of the assertion that the players see the coaches with their hands out to these boosters and then ask why they can't do the same thing? I think it's a very valid and legitimate question.

Coaches are professionals meaning they get paid.

Players are amateurs meaning they don't get paid.

[Sooner-N-KS]

Bullcrap. These 18,19 and 20 year old kids see the coaches getting freebies form the fatcat boosters. If the coaches are dealing with them I can totally understand where a 19 year old player would be tempted to accept an offer from one of these boosters. After all, the coaches are the only ones thay can use as examples.


I guess to set the right example they need to stop paying Stoops as well. They can put the coaches up in a dorm room somewhere.

[FaninAma]

Well, it is against the rules for players to get things and not coaches. The coaches have a job, the players are just college students. Whenever they become coaches, then they can have those things. Something to look forward and work towrads.

Again the old "do as I say not as I do" argument. That is not a terribly effective form of leadership in my opinion.

These coaches demand a lot from the players including team leadership which is usually determined by your actions on and off the field.

Is it so hard to expect the coaches and the rest of the so-called mature people in this situation to do the same thing.

The coaches should no accept gifts, kick backs or payments directly from boosters or other 3rd parties as it pertains to their employment as coaches at the University of Oklahoma.

[FaninAma]

I guess to set the right example they need to stop paying Stoops as well. They can put the coaches up in a dorm room somewhere.

Now you're just being flat out silly.

I'm just saying that all revenue derived from the coaches efforts on and off of the field brought in as a result of their employment at the University of Oklahoma should go to the University of Oklahoma. I am sure that Stoops and his staff would be fairly compensated by the University and would not have to go on welfare.

If a booster wants to contribute to the program then give the money to the program and allow them to utilize the gift in the best way they see fit. Same thing if an organization wants to pay Stoops to be a spokesman for that company.

Ethical behavior is a two way street. You lead by example and the coaching staff needs to be beyond reproach. Right now they're not.

[MiccoMacey]

So you're telling me that no other players knew what was going on with the QB of the team and one of the OL in regards to the BRS&I deal? I find that hard to believe.

The Sports Animal (for what it's worth) said other players had knowledge of this. Not sure of their source, but that was stated on the radio two days ago. No names of players were given, just that others knew about it. I hate to put that out, since neither I nor the SA have a source, so it's just one step higher than gossip. But it was reported.




And what is your opinion of the assertion that the players see the coaches with their hands out to these boosters and then ask why they can't do the same thing? I think it's a very valid and legitimate question.

That's a pretty lame argument, on several fronts.

1) The coaches don't have their hands out. It's a perk of the business. Money isn't the only compensation for coaches. BTW, they are not the only state employees who get free use of vehicles.

2) I drink. My child can't. Doesn't matter if they see me do it or not. They are not allowed until they are 21 because that's the rule for them, not for me.


* I don't drink...only used this as an analogy.

[soonerjoker]

amarillo
there's nothing wrong with coaches getting (loans, not gifts) cars from those dumb enuff to loan them. if, indeed, this is true. who knows for sure. i bet the coaches don't tell the players.

Stoops wife has a mary kaye car, & he drives a van.

(i think that's what i've heard)

[mhackl]

The coaches at big D-1 programs, not just OU's, do seem to have their hands out for whatever they can get. I'm not criticizing this. What I am criticizing is the fact that the coaches, the University, the community and worst of all, the NCAA derives alot of reward form the blood, sweat and tears of these athletes but then they tell them "Do as I say, don't do as I do."

There is a huge difference here. A coach is a compensated talent, one that is in high demand. Just the same as a pro athlete. As far as riding to success on the backs of there players. I think the difference between the 1998 & 2000 seasons would nullify that argument.

[Sooner-N-KS]

Ethical behavior is a two way street. You lead by example and the coaching staff needs to be beyond reproach. Right now they're not.

You are implying that the coaches are behaving unethically by accepting gifts. They are not. Coaches and players live by different sets of rules, and there's no way to look at it any differently.

If you want to argue that players should receive more compensation I'm there with you. I would like to see fewer restrictions rather than more.

The basketball coach set a bad example by not following the rules he was under. As far as we can see Coach Stoops follows the rules he is given, and that set's the example for the students.

[FaninAma]

MM and soonerjerk, you're missing the point of Tramel's article. Is it legal and accepted to do what the coaches are doing? Yes.

Is it setting a good example for the young athletes they are responsible for? No!

And if I send my son or daughter off to a university to spen hundreds and hundreds of hours practicing and giving their best effort that benefits a program and a coach i expect more back from them that"Well 'm not their daddy."

Again, 18, 19 ,20 year old people are impressionable. You need to lead by example with kids.

And Stoops does not drive a van. He drives a Denali supplied by, you guessed it, a local car dealer.

[sooneron]

The Sports Animal (for what it's worth) said other players had knowledge of this. Not sure of their source, but that was stated on the radio two days ago. No names of players were given, just that others knew about it. I hate to put that out, since neither I nor the SA have a source, so it's just one step higher than gossip. But it was reported.





That's a pretty lame argument, on several fronts.

1) The coaches don't have their hands out. It's a perk of the business. Money isn't the only compensation for coaches. BTW, they are not the only state employees who get free use of vehicles.

2) I drink. My child can't. Doesn't matter if they see me do it or not. They are not allowed until they are 21 because that's the rule for them, not for me.


* I don't drink...only used this as an analogy.

Actually to answer the hand out part. Stoops himself said that he had ask Joe C to get his coaches some cars, and Joe C said to be patient. Bob even said so much as that he would walk to work if his coaches didn't get some cars. That seems a little entitled to me.

[mhackl]

I think that losing coaches would be a legitimate concern for coach stoops. I say "get'em some cars". Geeze, how many O-coordinators have we had in the last seven years?

[TheUnnamedSooner]

And if I send my son or daughter off to a university to spen hundreds and hundreds of hours practicing and giving their best effort that benefits a program and a coach i expect more back from them that"Well 'm not their daddy."

Again, 18, 19 ,20 year old people are impressionable. You need to lead by example with kids.



I guess Stoops needs to get one of those anklets for all the players that tells him where they are at all times. Come on, he can't baby them. They are adults and when given rules either follow them or don't, but be willing to pay the price for your decision. I don't see a problem with stoops or any other coach getting a car. I do however, see a problem with someone getting paid for work not being done. Stoops gets paid quite a bit a money, but he works for it and doesn't just come to the office for 5 hours a week.

[MiccoMacey]

MM and soonerjerk, you're missing the point of Tramel's article. Is it legal and accepted to do what the coaches are doing? Yes.

Is it setting a good example for the young athletes they are responsible for? No!

And if I send my son or daughter off to a university to spen hundreds and hundreds of hours practicing and giving their best effort that benefits a program and a coach i expect more back from them that"Well 'm not their daddy."

I'm not missing the point, we just disagree.

If the coach says, "Don't drive over the posted speed limit because it's against the rules", then goes and drives over the posted speed limit even though it's illegal for him as well, that's wrong and unethical, setting a bad example.

If the coach says "Don't go out past midnight because it's against the rules", then goes out after midnight because it's legal for him to do so, it's not setting a bad example (unless he's doing something else that's illegal or unethical).

BTW, I'm posting all these analogies, and I hate analogies. So I apologize for doing so.

But the bottom line is I don't see what they are doing as being wrong, illegal, or immoral.

[leavingthezoo]

Bullcrap. These 18,19 and 20 year old kids see the coaches getting freebies form the fatcat boosters.

yet, the majority of these 18, 19, and 20 (or 21) still amazingly figure out that the NCAA rules set into place were meant for them.

the more i think about it, since the argument here is that these "kids" have a built in excuse because they're... actually, young adults, then maybe that age group should not be allowed to drink (the 21 plussers), drive, join the military, or leave mommy and daddy's safe haven since they need someone to hold their hands.

this is the weakest reasoning i've seen on here in awhile, and it's gotten some pretty stiff competition.

what is the age of accountability, btw? maybe i have some time left where i can do what i know is wrong but someone will support me anyway. i thought that door closed at 18, but i would be happy to find i have some eligibility left.

:D

[GrapevineSooner]

I'm expected to hit a call goal. My manager and team leads aren't.

My manager receives certain perks that I don't get.

Why?

Because they're in management and I'm not.

Apples and Oranges.

[Sooner-N-KS]

There was a clip on the KOCO web site of an interview with Jason White. He talked about how the rules were drilled into them. It was interesting to hear how much time is taken to go over the rules.

I don't think setting an example had anything to do with it. Bomar knows the rules, but he thought he was so good that the rules didn't apply to him. He had 21+ year old teammates that were legally allowed to drink beer. He knew he was not allowed to drink bear until he turned 21. The rules didn't apply to him. He guessed wrong.

[Texas Golfer]

I have no problem with coaches getting additional benefits from boosters. Do professional football players get additional benefits? Yes. There is no rule against it.

But college players, at least at OU, know what the rules are. They are taught those rules during freshman orientation when they first arrive. Bomar and Quinn knew what they were doing was wrong. Instead of visualizing the monetary benefits down the road for a stellar college career, they chose instant gratification.

I agree with the analogy of the parent/child scenario. It has nothing to do with the "do as I say, not as I do" syndrome.

[FaninAma]

I guess Stoops needs to get one of those anklets for all the players that tells him where they are at all times. Come on, he can't baby them. They are adults and when given rules either follow them or don't, but be willing to pay the price for your decision. I don't see a problem with stoops or any other coach getting a car. I do however, see a problem with someone getting paid for work not being done. Stoops gets paid quite a bit a money, but he works for it and doesn't just come to the office for 5 hours a week.

Stoops also gets paid 2 1/2 million dollars a year.

I work in a profession that is a target of pharmaceutical companies trying to get special consideration by giving away freebies. If I accept gifts from these companies how can I expect those who work under me, and make a lot less money than me, not to do the same thing understanding that some of the things the pharmaceutical companies do could get you in trouble with HICFA and the feds? I ethically can't direct my subordinates to act in a way that I myself am not willing to act, especially considering they make a lot less money.

The prinicples OU should be operating under are:

The head honchos(Stoops, Castiglione, Boren) set the example.
Young people watch what you do and use that as their basis for making decisions a lot more than they do from listening to you tell them how they should act.

Legal behavior doesn't always mean ethical behavior.

Most people don't give things away for free, especially boosters. They always expect something in return...even from the coaches and program.

Don't always take what an 18, 19 or 20 year old tells you at face value.

Money makes people compromise their ethics if you're not careful and right now OU's football program is awash in money and surrounded by people who don't always have the best ethics who have a lot of money.

[TheUnnamedSooner]

Again, Stoops, Castiglione, Boren are not getting paid for work not done. I can kind of see where you are trying to go with this. But as someone else said "Well, maybe Stoops shouldn't take a paycheck and live in the dorms", that may be silly and to the extreme, but it makes a valid point. Where do you draw the line?

[FaninAma]

yet, the majority of these 18, 19, and 20 (or 21) still amazingly figure out that the NCAA rules set into place were meant for them.

the more i think about it, since the argument here is that these "kids" have a built in excuse because they're... actually, young adults, then maybe that age group should not be allowed to drink (the 21 plussers), drive, join the military, or leave mommy and daddy's safe haven since they need someone to hold their hands.

this is the weakest reasoning i've seen on here in awhile, and it's gotten some pretty stiff competition.

what is the age of accountability, btw? maybe i have some time left where i can do what i know is wrong but someone will support me anyway. i thought that door closed at 18, but i would be happy to find i have some eligibility left.

:D

Then you'll make one hell of a parent or boss. :rolleyes: I can guarantee you kids watch the example you set by your actions. They quickly learn that you either walk the walk or quit talking the talk. It doesn't just apply to kids, it applies to anybody in a position of leadeship and authority. Try running a business where you do one thing and expect a different level of behavior from your employees. I guarantee you it doesn't make for a happy or productive work environment.

Again, it's all about the example the coaches and higher ups are setting. If you don't think that's an important issue, and you're opinion is more representative of the OU fanbase than mine then I can see why OU keeps getting into trouble.

[TheUnnamedSooner]

Let's say I do something at work that I'm not authorized to do, but my boss is. I get fired for doing that thing, can I sue for wrongful termination because my boss is setting a bad example? No, because I knew that was something my boss could do and not me.

[kruss1971]

Hump is on the Animal saying there is no way Stoops and the compliance staff could not have known about the whole shabang...saying that Stoops could not possibly be shocked about everything.

Why is it so hard to believe the VAST MAJORITY of players follow the rules making it unecessary to employ a compliance army to police every activity of every athlete? At some point, it is all about the willingness to comply with any set of rules...on the part of players and boosters/businesses.

Let's view Enron as an example. The "players" were reporting that everything was fine. They signed everything that was required of them by law...even though it was a lie. In other words, based on Hump's logic, the "coaches"... aka shareholders...were stupid and should not be shocked at the result because they should not have trusted the "players".

[leavingthezoo]

Then you'll make one hell of a parent or boss.

actually, i would be one hell of a boss or parent. i would hold my employees or children accountable for their actions... because if i didn't, then they would never become mature or responsible, and ultimately would bring more people down with them.

thanks for noticing just how brilliant of a boss or parent i would be. you're maturing already. :D

if they're 8, your rules makes sense. if they're 18, agreeing to play for a university that has a set of rules in which everyone is made aware, your point simply excuses and... almost rewards inappropriate behavior.

i won't tell you you'd make one hell of a parent or boss. but i bet employees and children would clamor to be yours... unearned perks and a blanket excuse. who wouldn't want that?

[kruss1971]

If I accept gifts from these companies how can I expect those who work under me, and make a lot less money than me, not to do the same thing understanding that some of the things the pharmaceutical companies do could get you in trouble with HICFA and the feds? I ethically can't direct my subordinates to act in a way that I myself am not willing to act, especially considering they make a lot less money.

The prinicples OU should be operating under are:

The head honchos(Stoops, Castiglione, Boren) set the example.
Young people watch what you do and use that as their basis for making decisions a lot more than they do from listening to you tell them how they should act.

Are implying that the cars that are given are done so in a "back room", "under the table" manner? This simply isn't the case. Over 60 car dealers provide cars to several employees of the athletic program via donations made through the Sooner Club. If I could contribute a car to the program for better seats, I would. Although some donors are trying to peddle influence over the program, not every donor is doing so.

From the Sooner Club site:

"Sooner Schooner Program
More than 60 automobile dealers support OU Athletics through their participation in the Sooner Schooner Program, which guarantees reliable transportation for OU coaches and administrators.

Car dealers who participate in the program receive Sooner Club benefits and priority points based on the number of vehicles provided for athletics department use. Sooner Schooner Program participants receive complimentary season tickets to their choice of OU sports. For more information, please call the Sooner Club office."

From the Sooner Sports site:

"The OU Athletics Department thanks the following automobile dealerships and their representatives for their participation in the Sooner Schooner program.

Bob Moore Auto Group, Oklahoma City
Hudiburg Auto Group, Midwest City
John Winkler Motors, Pauls Valley
Marc Heitz Chevrolet, Norman
Big Red Sports/Imports, Norman
Blue Ribbon Chevrolet, Sallisaw
Ferguson Pontiac/Buick/GMC, Norman
Milo Gordon Honda/Chrysler/Plymouth, Lawton
Yukon Chevrolet, Yukon
Aubrey Chevrolet, Lawton
Bolen Autos, Oklahoma City
Charles Allan Ford, Chickasha
Draper Motors, Sayre
Dusty Ballard Motors
Ferguson Dodge, Norman
Fiesta Toyota
Fowler Toyota/Jeep, Norman
Gene Smith Chevrolet, Elk City
Harvey's, Inc., Shawnee
Jeff Lungren Chevrolet, Grove
Jim Miles Chevrolet, Guthrie
Jim Norton Toyota, Tulsa
Joe Cooper Ford, Midwest City
John Holt Auto Group, Chickasha
Lindsay Ford, Lindsay
McKinsey Ballard Motors
Murrys Nissan, Muskogee
Nelson Nissan-Mazda, Broken Arrow
Northcutt Chevrolet, Enid
Pauls Valley Ford
Phoenix Auto Sales, Oklahoma City
Powers Chevrolet, Purcell
Randal Tyler Ford, Booneville, Ark.
Service Automall, Ada
Stuteville Ford, Atoka
Tim Hayes Leasing, Tulsa
Wayne Eidson Chevrolet, Sulphur"

Saying that he should pay for his own car is easy to say. Can he afford it? Absolutely. If he can drive a company vehicle...just like millions of people across the country do...why wouldn't he?

[FaninAma]

Although some donors are trying to peddle influence over the program, not every donor is doing so.

Therein lies the problem. It doesn't take a lot of boosters throwing thousands of dollars around in payments to the school and coaches to get a program in trouble.

The only solution in my opinion is to only allow cash contrubutions directly throught the University then allow the University to use the money as it deems appropriate. If the coaches need cars then let the University buy the cars out of this fund. Every penny should be accounted for so that none of the boosters that are so inclined, can feel that they have purchased any type of influence with the coaches or the program.

Big time D-1 football is a unique animal where you have Universites and coaches getting huge financial rewards from a group of athletes who are getting a fraction of what the program and it's primary beneficiaries are getting. That discrepancy is what is unfair and allows for the abuses from boosters.

If the NCAA were serious about keeping the sport "pure" they would apply some of the same rules to the beneficiaries of the huge amounts of money thrown around in the sport including themselves, or

they could share some of it with the athletes and pay a stipend. But they won't because they're a bunch of hypocrites and enjoy the way the sytem works now. Which isn't suprising since all monopolies enjoy being a monopoly and reaping the benefits of being able to set the rules without being questioned.

I guess my main point is the same as the main point of tramel's artice which is that the higher ups, including the coaches, the universities and the NCAA are being extremely hypocritical on this issue.

[Texas Golfer]

The only solution in my opinion is to only allow cash contrubutions directly throught the University then allow the University to use the money as it deems appropriate. If the coaches need cars then let the University buy the cars out of this fund. Every penny should be accounted for so that none of the boosters that are so inclined, can feel that they have purchased any type of influence with the coaches or the program.

This is much like saying that I have to give my money to UNICEF rather than a specific child I met while in Africa. It's not fair for me to give food and money to this child and only this child? I don't have a right to determine how my money is spent?

[kruss1971]

The only solution in my opinion is to only allow cash contrubutions directly throught the University then allow the University to use the money as it deems appropriate. If the coaches need cars then let the University buy the cars out of this fund. Every penny should be accounted for so that none of the boosters that are so inclined, can feel that they have purchased any type of influence with the coaches or the program.

Again, you seem to be failing to acknowledge that the vehicles are accounted for, reported, and allowed under NCAA and OU athletic department guidelines. Here are two scenarios:

Scenario One:
Donor 1 gives $100,000 to the Sooner Club (aka athletic department). The Sooner Club provides a company vehicle to two coaches as part of a total compensation package. Everything is above the table...reported...legal...and accounted for.

Scenario Two:
Donor 2 gives two vehicles to the Sooner Club that are appraised at $50,000 each. The Sooner Club provides a company vehicle to two coaches as part of a total compensation package. Everything is above the table...reported...legal...and accounted for.

What is the difference?

The coaches get paid...bottom line. The athletes have worked their whole life for a chance to make millions playing pro ball. They understand the timeline...the rules...and the VAST MAJORITY abide by that system.

[47straight]

The University also counts on certain outside revenues to be part of the coaches compensation. I think when Stoops was signed, his salary was 60% of his compensation, and revenues from his coaches show and a few other guarenteed endorsements constituted 40%.

[FaninAma]

The University also counts on certain outside revenues to be part of the coaches compensation. I think when Stoops was signed, his salary was 60% of his compensation, and revenues from his coaches show and a few other guarenteed endorsements constituted 40%.

It shouldn't be that way. Bob Stoops is a state employee and an employee of the University of Oklahoma. Having outside income is a huge conflict of interest problem and I guarantee you any other state employee or employee of the University would be required to turn over their outside income produced through their position from the University and any other employee would be severely restricted on the types of offers he could accept.

If Bob Stoops is worth 5 million doallars a year to the University then let the University pay him 5 million dollars a year. As a state employee, Bob should receive no direct payments from outside sources as it pertains to his position as head football coach at OU.

This quote from an earlier post made me laugh....a lot.:

"Sooner Schooner Program
More than 60 automobile dealers support OU Athletics through their participation in the Sooner Schooner Program, which guarantees reliable transportation for OU coaches and administrators."

That makes it sound like the coaches ( who make several hundred thousand a year at least) would be driving broken down POS cars if not for the kind, big hearted car dealers in the state. What a hoot.

[picasso]

did you guys hear the guy that called the Hump Man today on WWLS? Hump was agreeing totally with Tramel's article and this dude calls in and turns it around on Hump.
asked him if he got a free press pass to football games and he said umm yes. mileage, money for room and board, also talked about the nice food tables the press gets , etc. etc.
he asked Hump if they didn't get the free pess pass they would probably have to buy one themselves?

heh.

[TheUnnamedSooner]

It shouldn't be that way. Bob Stoops is a state employee and an employee of the University of Oklahoma. Having outside income is a huge conflict of interest problem and I guarantee you any other state employee or employee of the University would be required to turn over their outside income produced through their position from the University and any other employee would be severely restricted on the types of offers he could accept.

If Bob Stoops is worth 5 million doallars a year to the University then let the University pay him 5 million dollars a year. As a state employee, Bob should receive no direct payments from outside sources as it pertains to his position as head football coach at OU.





Why? I don't see your point or how it is a conflict of interest. It's not like he is getting endorsements from a gambling site or another university. How is stoops getting an endorsement from say Nike or OU medical center a conflict of interest? There are a ton of PROFESSIONAL (meaning getting paid for what they do) sports figures that make a big % of their salary, it's the world they live in. Going by your reasoning, everyone is the same and should get the same perks, money etc. as everyone else, therefore not rewarding anyone for succeeding or working harder than someone else.

[FaninAma]

Why? I don't see your point or how it is a conflict of interest. It's not like he is getting endorsements from a gambling site or another university. How is stoops getting an endorsement from say Nike or OU medical center a conflict of interest? There are a ton of PROFESSIONAL (meaning getting paid for what they do) sports figures that make a big % of their salary, it's the world they live in. Going by your reasoning, everyone is the same and should get the same perks, money etc. as everyone else, therefore not rewarding anyone for succeeding or working harder than someone else.

He's a state employee. The rules are different for state and federal employees regarding the compensation they can receive outside of their agency(ie. the University of Oklahoma). When you're in a public position you need to be above reproach. In the private sector it's different as long as you're not doing business with any agency that uses state or federal funds. So unless not a penny of federal or state funds find it's way into the athletic department then Stoops should abide by the same rules as all other state employees.

And again, I'm talking about a higher standard here....not just skating by and doing the bare minmum to keep the program out of trouble. Stoops should set the example he wants his players to follow which , IMO, means he shouldn't be perceived as having his hand out to boosters like it appeared in the example Tramel gave in the article.

[Cam]

He's a state employee. The rules are different for state and federal employees regarding the compensation they can receive outside of their agency(ie. the University of Oklahoma). When you're in a public position you need to be above reproach. In the private sector it's different as long as you're not doing business with any agency that uses state or federal funds. So unless not a penny of federal or state funds find it's way into the athletic department then Stoops should abide by the same rules as all other state employees.
Stoops is not just a state employee. He's the highest profile state employee in Oklahoma, bar none. Double standards are a way of life.

I seriously doubt the board of regents would be allowed to offer anything in a contract that wasn't within the guidelines for a state or federal employee.

[jrsooner]

1.The OU compliance office and Stoops fell asleep at the wheel in so much as they aren't scrutinizing the boosters enough, especially those who have caused problems in the past.Okay....I hate what I'm about to do .... BUT don't hang so much on the compliance office. I would look at them just like Internal Controls for a larger company. They (IntCtrls) have a set amount of evidence to gather, and if they get the "proper" evidence back, then they are usually happy and go on. They usually leave it up to each department to verify that their processes and procedures are intact and working. Heck, I have a field day with our IntCtrls group because they are so much "SOX" orientated sometimes they miss the more damaging gaps within IT. Our group within IT goes after the whole picture and not just a tiny "speck" of IT. The same can probably be said for the compliance office there, they probably know what they are going to be audited on, and just collect evidence for those items.

In this case, from what I've read, Bomar didn't tell them that he was still working during the fall. He should have been monitored during the summer time, but not during the fall. BUT unless the compliance office was informed of the fall job, then it would have been off their radar. BUT that being said, there should have been a "detective" control that all athletes have to fill out each month stating where they are currently employed to at least give the compliance office a heads up. Before I start slamming the compliance office, I'd like to see exactly what they are being requested to do, how they are evidencing everything, and if they are just centered on the "latest" hot items that the auditors are saying they are going to hit this year.

SOX auditors do the same thing, they have a list of "key" controls they come and hit you with. If you don't have those covered, then they go to other controls within SOX that they didn't originally consider to be "key".

Points to both Stoops and the OU Compliance team for getting this handled quickly after they were informed of the situation. If someone wants to break the processes and procedures set up they will. Bomar and Quinn did just that. Besides holding their hands 24x7, there is just so much the compliance office could do.

[47straight]

Stoops is not a regular state employee. Consider this, FIA - he doesn't have the job security a regular state employee has! What does it take a state employee to get fired?

I think it makes more sense to consider him a government contractor.

[jrsooner]

Sooner-N-Ks, I would expect the staff and complaince office to be aware of where their players are working and I would expect them to know that a lot of players worked at BRS&I and should have had some drop in inspections of the place.Unless there is a specific contract between OU and BRS&I they can't do that. They have no authority what-so-ever at a privately owned company. There are other ways to go about this, but this isn't an option. Plus I worked the same type of job when I was in high school at a Ford dealership. You spend most of your time in the garage area that is off-limits to non-employees. So them showing up wouldn't matter much because they wouldn't have been allowed in the back.

[jrsooner]

So you're telling me that no other players knew what was going on with the QB of the team and one of the OL in regards to the BRS&I deal? I find that hard to believe.And how many accountants were at Enron taking home fat big bonus checks, and never said anything to anyone about what was going on? It took more than just a few people to make that fiasco happen. It's not so hard to believe, just look at Enron for a "business" example.

[tulsaoilerfan]

If I understood the coach right in the press conference, he said that he didn't know that Bomar was working, and he wasn't supposed to be working during the season. If Bomar went over and clocked in and left or if he just turned in a time card for those hours, how is the university supposed to know? Stoops said that there's a lot of things they can't know unless they are told by the violators.
I always thought that you weren't allowed to work during the season; does anyone else know if that is true or not?:confused:

[newtexassooner]

I worked for an athletic program at OU. As part of the coaches contracts, each one is given either a car stipend to pay for their own personal vehicle. OR, they are given a car by a local dealership for personal use. This is part of the job. The men's basketball team has them, the softball team, the baseball team, the women's basketball team, etc. That way, when they go on semi-local recruiting events, they are not driving their own car. If they are, then they receive compensation from the athletics dept. just so you know.

[douxpaysan]

FaninAma,



What type of car was Bomar driving? You made the accusation, and I'm in the dark on this one. If you're talking about AD we know that they were trying to buy it, but his family decided that the payments would be too much so he returned it. SNIFF... SNIFF This one doesn't pass the smell test, I don't care what the legalities are, perception is almost everything. Who drives off a carlot and returns weeks later with that story. Wal-mart guarantee?:twinkies:

[BillyBall]

NOT rape, drugs and machine gun fire.

I find it half way amusing that this **** goes on at schools like FSU with Bobby "Aw shucks" Bowden every year yet they avoid NCAA investigations.

[stoopified]

i have issues with state employees taking free cars as well.......how is that not an ethics violation?Free car leases and countryclub memberships are typically part of compensation for coaches at ALL major schools.

[soonerloyal]

Free car leases and countryclub memberships are typically part of compensation for coaches at ALL major schools.

Exactly...and the key word there is "lease". The cars are not owned by the coaches, the cars are leased to them. No, I'm not saying "Ooooohhh, the other schools do it too" as an excuse for questionable behavior. I'm saying this is a legitimate tool used by most major universities. Heck, Carol S. earned her lease of her pink Caddy by being an fantastically hard-working and dedicated MK Director. Many businesses have the company cars as a regular perk for higher-up employees. And like it or not, universities on some level are basically businesses.

As far as test drives, as long as your credit isn't bad, some dealerships do let test drives be taken, even for that long. Not just in Norman, OK. Some don't. Also, BRS&I sells both used and new vehicles, from Kias to Troopers and up. The car AD was considering was used.