Thoughts on the world state of affairs

[Okla-homey]

I enjoy prognostication so please indulge me...

As for the opening campaigns of WWIII and the current imbroglio between Israel and Syria with poor Lebanon being ripped to shreds between them: the US will definitely survive this round.

If Iran does manage a bomb and indeed throws in behind Syria or if the Pakis ever go over to the darkside (they already have a bomb) I don't think I'd take a long-term bet on the safety of NYC. Its the most tempting target if they only have a couple. They'll pop one in Gotham, evaluate the effect and reaction and save the others...kinda like we did during WWII.

London is physically closer so it could get smoked instead of NYC if they are unable to make the Atlantic crossing,

On a brighter note, the vast majority of the US population will ride this out. Oceans are our friend. That said, life will get pretty sucky. Not necessarily Mad Max-style sucky, but a lot of stuff we enjoy will probably be curtailed or cease.

The sheer numbers of people who will need resettlement in the NY-NJ area the wake of a nuke blast in NYC would make the Katrina dealio look like small beans.

Of greater concern will be the casualties we take finishing the job in the coming years. I expect there are an awful lot of American 10 year old boys now in front of Xboxes who will get trigger time for real before its all said and done.

Another issue is what this will ultimately do to the economy. The stock portfolio would be in for a considerable hit if NYC is smoked, though those with a lot of liquidity could make a killing in the depressed market.

Then again, speculators always find a way to make money in wartime.

Hold on tight. It promises to be a very interesting couple of decades.

[Boomhauer]

Thanks for making my hearburn feel better!

[SoonerBorn68]

But Homey, these poor people in Syria, Iran, & Palestine just want us infidels dead. We shouldn't stand in the way of their traditions and beliefs. ;)

[jk the sooner fan]

personally i think the only way we'll ever "deal" with the arab problem...and by deal, i mean "finally handle"......is if the arabs punch us square in the nose

[OUHOMER]

So you are saying buy real estate, and stock you pantries with beans?

[OUHOMER]

personally i think the only way we'll ever "deal" with the arab problem...and by deal, i mean "finally handle"......is if the arabs punch us square in the nose


what would you call the WTC? a flick on the ear?

[jk the sooner fan]

what would you call the WTC? a flick on the ear?

compared to a missile attack? yes......for me its not a flick on the ear, but it seems to be an easily forgotten event with many.....the importance of it has been lost

[Harry Beanbag]

personally i think the only way we'll ever "deal" with the arab problem...and by deal, i mean "finally handle"......is if the arabs punch us square in the nose


It's a sad commentary on the current condition of the United States if it takes a nuked city to do something that apparently 9/11 hasn't done, unite us as a country again to do a job that needs to be done.

Unfortunately, I agree with Homey. I've been thinking all hell would break loose for a couple of years now, and that we are not prepared for what is coming: socially, economically, or militarily.

[Mixer!]

C'mon now:
What countries are left standing in the Mid-East when it's all over?
Which ones get nuked?
Which ones disappear or become an entirely new country?
Who gets the oilfields?
Will the SE Asian/Pacific Muslims get involved? The African Muslims?
Will Israel survive?
Will North Korea get involved?Let's go all the way on this or not at all. ;)

[Scott D]

Homey forgot the most important part...China will just be sitting back waiting to pick up the pieces in forming their version of a New World Order.

[SoonerInKCMO]

Chicken ****ing Littles.

[Harry Beanbag]

Homey forgot the most important part...China will just be sitting back waiting to pick up the pieces in forming their version of a New World Order.


You have a serious case of Sinophobia don't you?

[Scott D]

You have a serious case of Sinophobia don't you?

nah, but I'm trying to think long term, and quite frankly all out war between us and basically the entire Middle East benefits the fastest rising power in the world the most. Any sort of protracted mass conflict with Iran/Syria/etc. will sufficiently weaken us in such a way that we, along with that region will be easy pickings.

If *I* was in charge in China, that's precisely what I'd do. The US and most of Europe would be in no position to put up any sort of mass organized resistance on the heels of basically a modern version of the Crusades.

[slickdawg]

personally i think the only way we'll ever "deal" with the arab problem...and by deal, i mean "finally handle"......is if the arabs punch us square in the nose


The United States Government has become to "politically correct" to
EVAR use a nuke. Some rouge nation can hit us, and we WILL NOT
respond with extreme force.

Too many wusses worried about "killing innocent civilians" where we
are at war, and they forget how many die here.

There were 3,000 souls lost on 9/11, and what did we do to counter that?

[SoonerInKCMO]

There were 3,000 souls lost on 9/11, and what did we do to counter that?

Blew the **** outta Afghanistan.

[slickdawg]

Blew the **** outta Afghanistan.

We broke our necks to limit civilian casualties.

**** THEM! Kill every one of the SOB's and their families.

We need to teach them a lesson - you kill our people, and we will
kill as many of you as we possibly can. Dammit, our enemies need to fear us.

[royalfan5]

The United States Government has become to "politically correct" to
EVAR use a nuke. Some rouge nation can hit us, and we WILL NOT
respond with extreme force.

Too many wusses worried about "killing innocent civilians" where we
are at war, and they forget how many die here.

There were 3,000 souls lost on 9/11, and what did we do to counter that?
Well, we've invaded two countries to counter that. There are two nation building projects going on to counter that.(You can debate, their effectiveness all you want, but they are going on) What more do you want right now. Do you think the United States could pacify all the Islamic nations at once, with out partners without causing a lot of problems domestically? Hell, even if you nuked all of them, it would cause mass economic chaos because of the trade disruptions, and all the nuclear fallout from nuking that area of the world? It is exceedingly difficult to wage wars on ideas, and not fixed institions. That's what the war against terrorism comes down to, it is a war on ideas, not on instituions.

[slickdawg]

Well, we've invaded two countries to counter that. There are two nation building projects going on to counter that.(You can debate, their effectiveness all you want, but they are going on) What more do you want right now. Do you think the United States could pacify all the Islamic nations at once, with out partners without causing a lot of problems domestically? Hell, even if you nuked all of them, it would cause mass economic chaos because of the trade disruptions, and all the nuclear fallout from nuking that area of the world? It is exceedingly difficult to wage wars on ideas, and not fixed institions. That's what the war against terrorism comes down to, it is a war on ideas, not on instituions.

Exactly - and the majority of Arabs will never change their ways.

CNN did a report yesterday on how women's rights have gone downhill
since we've made Iraq a democracy. Back to women feraing for their lives
if they drive a car or their face is seen in public.

We can do what we need to do with conventional weapons. The enemy
knows we will break our necks to not hit a mosque or civilian area, so
they hide their weapons there. CALCM or JDAM the freakin' things!

[Harry Beanbag]

nah, but I'm trying to think long term, and quite frankly all out war between us and basically the entire Middle East benefits the fastest rising power in the world the most. Any sort of protracted mass conflict with Iran/Syria/etc. will sufficiently weaken us in such a way that we, along with that region will be easy pickings.

If *I* was in charge in China, that's precisely what I'd do. The US and most of Europe would be in no position to put up any sort of mass organized resistance on the heels of basically a modern version of the Crusades.


I don't know. I've always thought that China just wanted to be left alone. I don't remember any imperialistic tendencies from their past, though I could be mistaken. If anything, I do think they will pounce on Taiwan at an opportune time for them, but I think it's also in their best interest to rid the world of Islamofascism too.

[PhilTLL]

We need to teach them a lesson - you kill our people, and we will
kill as many of you as we possibly can. Dammit, our enemies need to fear us.

But, if this is really an ideological war between free, civilized society and barbarians who target innocent people, as we have maintained the whole time, it's awfully hard for us to have it both ways. As a "battle of hearts and minds," denouncing the killing of innocents at the WTC and then flattening Kabul would have been the worst possible option.

As a pragmatic matter of sheer survival, military superiority, and pure retribution, it would be nice to obliterate...someone...if we're even exactly sure who or where to obliterate. But to do that, I think we would have to publically acknowledge that we're willing to use tactics that undermine the high ground we've claimed.

Edit edit: If we're willing to do that, I'd be more inclined to accept the destruction of a city or two, but if we can't force ourselves to do that, I'd rather we not become the hypocrites the radicals say we are.

[royalfan5]

Exactly - and the majority of Arabs will never change their ways.

CNN did a report yesterday on how women's rights have gone downhill
since we've made Iraq a democracy. Back to women feraing for their lives
if they drive a car or their face is seen in public.

We can do what we need to do with conventional weapons. The enemy
knows we will break our necks to not hit a mosque or civilian area, so
they hide their weapons there. CALCM or JDAM the freakin' things!
But unless you kill the people, you will still have a population seething with rage that will be easily recruited to fall in line with whatever group gives them on outlet for their rage. Poverty and unemployment do just as much to fuel terrorism as Islam does. People you have a decent quality of life and job aren't the first lining up to be suicide bombers. People with nothing to lose are the ones lining up. Poor unemployed people with no hope are to terrorism as swamps and mosiquitos are to malaria.

[Scott D]

I don't know. I've always thought that China just wanted to be left alone. I don't remember any imperialistic tendencies from their past, though I could be mistaken. If anything, I do think they will pounce on Taiwan at an opportune time for them, but I think it's also in their best interest to rid the world of Islamofascism too.

I could be wrong also, however I kind of thought the faction of China that felt that way the most were driven away to Taipei. As for Islamofascism, what's better than to let everyone else do that dirty work for you and be there to clean up the mess?

[SoonerInKCMO]

We broke our necks to limit civilian casualties.

**** THEM! Kill every one of the SOB's and their families.

We need to teach them a lesson - you kill our people, and we will
kill as many of you as we possibly can. Dammit, our enemies need to fear us.

**** YEAH BUBBA!!! HEY WHILE WE'RE AT IT, WE GOT ENOUGH NUKES, LET'S JUST BLOW THE **** OUTTA EVERYONE SO WE'RE THE ONLY ONES LEFT!!!!! EVERYONE ELSE ARE JUST A BUNCHA ****IN' ANIMALS ANYWAY!!! **** YEAH!! **** YEAH!!!

Dude, we did our best to limit civilian casualties in Afghanistan because it was the Al Qaeda and Taliban we were after - not run of the mill Afghanis. It's not like they were the ones responsible.

****, nearly all of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis - why didn't we go after them?? Oh yeah, because the Al Saud folk have cooperated in keeping oil prices stable. :rolleyes:

[Harry Beanbag]

Hmmm, this site is interesting...

http://www.threeworldwars.com/world-war-3/ww3.htm

[Harry Beanbag]

As for Islamofascism, what's better than to let everyone else do that dirty work for you and be there to clean up the mess?


I see that point, but I expect fighting to be happening all around Chinese borders, it might be difficult for them to ignore it.

[Jerk]

When Hugo Chavez marches his Venuzealian Liberation Army across the Rio Grande, I'll be ready!

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/9425/pic16kv.jpg

Unfortunetly, I do not possess enough ammo to counter a Chinese attack.

[Harry Beanbag]

When Hugo Chavez marches his Venuzealian Liberation Army across the Rio Grande, I'll be ready!

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/9425/pic16kv.jpg


You and those two rifles should be enough to take care of them. :)

[SoonerBorn68]

But, if this is really an ideological war between free, civilized society and barbarians who target innocent people, as we have maintained the whole time, it's awfully hard for us to have it both ways. As a "battle of hearts and minds," denouncing the killing of innocents at the WTC and then flattening Kabul would have been the worst possible option.


Unfotunately taking the moral ground is a recipe for disaster. These people blend in with the masses & hide behind women and children. It's impossible to fight this war "conventionally". We're fighting clans & loosely affiliated sects. The worst part of the whole matter is that the forces we face are religous fanatics who hope they die as a martyr. It's just like the Japanese, these islamo-fockturds would rather die in battle (ie suicide or sneak attacks) and that's how we need to start treating them. If they hide in the "innocent masses", then the "innocent masses" are harboring and giving aid to them. Ferret them out and kill every last one of them even if it causes collateral damage. F' world opinion. We're looked at as the bad guys anyway. Tarawa had over 2,500 Japanese defenders...less than 50 survived. This is the kind of enemy we are facing & we need to get off the moral high ground and TCB now or we'll pay for it 100 fold in the near future.

[Jerk]

You and those two rifles should be enough to take care of them. :)

According to some people, they're extremely dangerous and should not be in the hands of anyone except the military.

Surely this means that they are effective.

I aslo own the feared Ruger 10/22 with a 25 round mag- for shooting their eyes out, of course.

[royalfan5]

Unfotunately taking the moral ground is a recipe for disaster. These people blend in with the masses & hide behind women and children. It's impossible to fight this war "conventionally". We're fighting clans & loosely affiliated sects. The worst part of the whole matter is that the forces we face are religous fanatics who hope they die as a martyr. It's just like the Japanese, these islamo-fockturds would rather die in battle (ie suicide or sneak attacks) and that's how we need to start treating them. If they hide in the "innocent masses", then the "innocent masses" are harboring and giving aid to them. Ferret them out and kill every last one of them even if it causes collateral damage. F' world opinion. We're looked at as the bad guys anyway. Tarawa had over 2,500 Japanese defenders...less than 50 survived. This is the kind of enemy we are facing & we need to get off the moral high ground and TCB now or we'll pay for it 100 fold in the near future.
But there is a huge area of masses for them to hide in. Do we have the resources to carry out the wholesale slaughter you propose with out getting too crazy with Nukes? Because I am sure India doesn't want us nuking some of their provinces and Pakistan and having to deal with the fallout. You may say, the Indian muslims aren't radical now, but if the United States goes hard after islamic radicals and with that causes massive civilian causlaties, you will probably radicalize the remainder.

[Okla-homey]

Homey forgot the most important part...China will just be sitting back waiting to pick up the pieces in forming their version of a New World Order.

Here's the thing. China has existed in one form or another for about 2000 years. They have never exhibited imperialist tendencies. I've always maintained they'd be content with east Asian hegemony. I think that's all they want and to be left alone.

Our jihaadist fellow humans however, just like that thing in Independence Day when it mooshed the scientist up against the plate glass window and made him into a talking puppet..."want us to die."

The way I see it, its either us or them. I vote for us...even if it means killing every last one of them.

[SoonerBorn68]

But there is a huge area of masses for them to hide in. Do we have the resources to carry out the wholesale slaughter you propose with out getting too crazy with Nukes? Because I am sure India doesn't want us nuking some of their provinces and Pakistan and having to deal with the fallout. You may say, the Indian muslims aren't radical now, but if the United States goes hard after islamic radicals and with that causes massive civilian causlaties, you will probably radicalize the remainder.

So the solution is to take it? Apparently the act of war these days is not to win, but is to be politically correct. It seems to be OK to go after Israel and put up with the ravings of that islamo-focturd in Iran who wants every Jew dead, but the Muslims get sympathy. F'em, the religion needs to police itself. Civilians need to realize they are in the middle of it & expose these people or realize they will be collateral damage.

[slickdawg]

So the solution is to take it? Apparently the act of war these days is not to win, but is to be politically correct. It seems to be OK to go after Israel and put up with the ravings of that islamo-focturd in Iran who wants every Jew dead, but the Muslims get sympathy. F'em, the religion needs to police itself. Civilians need to realize they are in the middle of it & expose these people or realize they will be collateral damage.


That brings up another sticking point - if muslims are "peace loving people"
WHY IN THE HELL ARE THEY NOT DENOUNCING TERRORISTS ON EVERY
OUTLET POSSIBLE?

Their religion is one of hated and intolerance.

[soonerscuba]

We cannot use nukes against terrorism. No way, no how. The only, and I mean only way that we get to use them is in retaliation to an attack by a nation-state that attacks us first. Why? Because, although powerful we drop nukes and the entire world turns it's back on us. Canada and Mexico included, which would make for the massive global force descending upon America to "liberate" us from whatever president stupid enough to go nuclear a very scary thought indeed.

And I hope to God that I am right, but I feel the chances of terrorists getting their hands on a nuke and being able to transfer and detonate it in a major metropolitan area to be quite slim, they would need state help. Which is why I support blowing the holy hell out of anything that Iran tries to do.

[slickdawg]

**** YEAH BUBBA!!! HEY WHILE WE'RE AT IT, WE GOT ENOUGH NUKES, LET'S JUST BLOW THE **** OUTTA EVERYONE SO WE'RE THE ONLY ONES LEFT!!!!! EVERYONE ELSE ARE JUST A BUNCHA ****IN' ANIMALS ANYWAY!!! **** YEAH!! **** YEAH!!!

Dude, we did our best to limit civilian casualties in Afghanistan because it was the Al Qaeda and Taliban we were after - not run of the mill Afghanis. It's not like they were the ones responsible.

****, nearly all of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis - why didn't we go after them?? Oh yeah, because the Al Saud folk have cooperated in keeping oil prices stable. :rolleyes:

We should hold Saudis accountable - but we don't. And you are right, it's
all about the oil.

[Scott D]

Here's the thing. China has existed in one form or another for about 2000 years. They have never exhibited imperialist tendencies. I've always maintained they'd be content with east Asian hegemony. I think that's all they want and to be left alone.

Our jihaadist fellow humans however, just like that thing in Independence Day when it mooshed the scientist up against the plate glass window and made him into a talking puppet..."want us to die."

The way I see it, its either us or them. I vote for us...even if it means killing every last one of them.

and they've only existed as a communist entity for the last 60 years of that 2000 years.

[usmc-sooner]

I hope Isreal drops the righteous hammer of God on the Arabs and we sit back and laugh.

[afs]

I enjoy prognostication so please indulge me...

As for the opening campaigns of WWIII and the current imbroglio between Israel and Syria with poor Lebanon being ripped to shreds between them: the US will definitely survive this round.

If Iran does manage a bomb and indeed throws in behind Syria or if the Pakis ever go over to the darkside (they already have a bomb) I don't think I'd take a long-term bet on the safety of NYC. Its the most tempting target if they only have a couple. They'll pop one in Gotham, evaluate the effect and reaction and save the others...kinda like we did during WWII.

London is physically closer so it could get smoked instead of NYC if they are unable to make the Atlantic crossing,

On a brighter note, the vast majority of the US population will ride this out. Oceans are our friend. That said, life will get pretty sucky. Not necessarily Mad Max-style sucky, but a lot of stuff we enjoy will probably be curtailed or cease.

The sheer numbers of people who will need resettlement in the NY-NJ area the wake of a nuke blast in NYC would make the Katrina dealio look like small beans.

Of greater concern will be the casualties we take finishing the job in the coming years. I expect there are an awful lot of American 10 year old boys now in front of Xboxes who will get trigger time for real before its all said and done.

Another issue is what this will ultimately do to the economy. The stock portfolio would be in for a considerable hit if NYC is smoked, though those with a lot of liquidity could make a killing in the depressed market.

Then again, speculators always find a way to make money in wartime.

Hold on tight. It promises to be a very interesting couple of decades.

:pop::pop::pop::pop::pop::pop::pop::pop::pop::pop:


Fixed.

[royalfan5]

So the solution is to take it? Apparently the act of war these days is not to win, but is to be politically correct. It seems to be OK to go after Israel and put up with the ravings of that islamo-focturd in Iran who wants every Jew dead, but the Muslims get sympathy. F'em, the religion needs to police itself. Civilians need to realize they are in the middle of it & expose these people or realize they will be collateral damage.
I was just questioning how feasible your idea is. There isn't a simple solution. Perhaps taking a strictly defensive position would work the best for the United States over the long run, if there isn't a workable offensive plan. How many more troops would it take for the United States to occupy Syria, Lebanon, and Iran? What if that action destabilizes other gov'ts in the region? Are the resources there to pacify those populations? If we started nuking those countries, how would that effect our economy? What would the domestic reprecussions be to that situation? My point is blowing the **** out of everything probably isn't the cure all many would like it to be. Fear doesn't work on people who don't have jack**** to lose.

[slickdawg]

We cannot use nukes against terrorism. No way, no how. The only, and I mean only way that we get to use them is in retaliation to an attack by a nation-state that attacks us first. Why? Because, although powerful we drop nukes and the entire world turns it's back on us. Canada and Mexico included, which would make for the massive global force descending upon America to "liberate" us from whatever president stupid enough to go nuclear a very scary thought indeed.

And I hope to God that I am right, but I feel the chances of terrorists getting their hands on a nuke and being able to transfer and detonate it in a major metropolitan area to be quite slim, they would need state help. Which is why I support blowing the holy hell out of anything that Iran tries to do.


We, the US, don't have the guts to do it. We're counting on Germany
to help us with this? Iran isn't far from being able to make a dirty bomb,
and that's all it takes to cause insurmountable psychological damage if
one is set off in the US.

[Scott D]

That brings up another sticking point - if muslims are "peace loving people"
WHY IN THE HELL ARE THEY NOT DENOUNCING TERRORISTS ON EVERY
OUTLET POSSIBLE?

Their religion is one of hated and intolerance.

yeah, I'm sure all of the muslims who live in poverty are just going to be all over the television denouncing the terrorists.

actually, in true honesty, the widening gap between the rich and poor in this country will contribute more to it's downfall than anything foreign terrorists could dream of.

[Okla-homey]

So you are saying buy real estate, and stock you pantries with beans?

No. I'm saying love your families hard and steel yourselves for what's yet to come. It ain't liable to be pretty and its going to get a lot worse before it gets better. We haven't known sacrifice as a nation since 1945.

When it gets to the point when you aren't allowed to fill your tank even if you have the ten bucks a gallon to pay and the profound effect on consumerism caused by the shifting of our economy to survival and defense mode -- life is going to change quite drastically. Lots of folks won't be able to deal with it.

Our kids will be absolutely bonkers. At least during WWII people were used to managing without certian things and subsistence living having just survived the Depression.

People today (myself included) haven't known want to any great extent at any time in our lives. Lots of folks will voluntarily check-out when things get too tough. The ones who don't, just as they always have during the dark times, will inherit what's left.

[slickdawg]

yeah, I'm sure all of the muslims who live in poverty are just going to be all over the television denouncing the terrorists.

actually, in true honesty, the widening gap between the rich and poor in this country will contribute more to it's downfall than anything foreign terrorists could dream of.

Clerics in the mosques could denounce it. They could preach against it.
Have you seen or heard of one report on that?

[OklahomaTuba]

We should hold Saudis accountable - but we don't. And you are right, it's
all about the oil.

We can't touch the oil ticks even if wanted, unless you want to be jobless, standing in a soup line while your family starves.

One of the many reasons we can't and will never nuke anyone in the middle east, and why a civil war in Iraq might be a good thing.....for us.

[GDC]

So basically live it up now, because the ****'s about to hit the fan. I think I'm getting drunk.

[Harry Beanbag]

Perhaps taking a strictly defensive position would work the best for the United States over the long run, if there isn't a workable offensive plan.


Unfortunately, I don't see that as being all that effective with our WIDE THE **** OPEN BORDERS!!!! Damn I can't believe this administration's border control policy, or lack thereof. Shutting down the borders should have been the number one task after 9/11 and the beginning of the GWOT. http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/images/icons/bush.gif

[Scott D]

Clerics in the mosques could denounce it. They could preach against it.
Have you seen or heard of one report on that?

some have, and those news reports generally tend to get buried at the bottom of the small print section of the news section.

[Scott D]

Unfortunately, I don't see that as being all that effective with our WIDE THE **** OPEN BORDERS!!!! Damn I can't believe this administration's border control policy, or lack thereof. Shutting down the borders should have been the number one task after 9/11 and the beginning of the GWOT. http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/images/icons/bush.gif

shutting down the borders should have been high priority at the beginning of the Cold War, it's not just the current administration that dropped the ball, but every administration since Truman.

[slickdawg]

some have, and those news reports generally tend to get buried at the bottom of the small print section of the news section.


That needs to be in 60 point font on the front page

MUSLIM CLERICS DENOUNCE TERRORISM

[royalfan5]

Unfortunately, I don't see that as being all that effective with our WIDE THE **** OPEN BORDERS!!!! Damn I can't believe this administration's border control policy, or lack thereof. Shutting down the borders should have been the number one task after 9/11 and the beginning of the GWOT. http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/images/icons/bush.gif
I don't disagree with that. The United States has made a habit of taking the easy way out of everything for a long time, and it's starting to catch up with us.

[Okla-homey]

So basically live it up now, because the ****'s about to hit the fan. I think I'm getting drunk.

That's about the size of it Bro.

[Scott D]

That needs to be in 60 point font on the front page

MUSLIM CLERICS DENOUNCE TERRORISM

you've got no argument from me in that regard, but I'm not the one responsible for making sure news stories get out or get publicized.

[OklahomaTuba]

actually, in true honesty, the widening gap between the rich and poor in this country will contribute more to it's downfall than anything foreign terrorists could dream of.

Actually, the gap is pretty stable, as the US poverty rate has also been pretty stable for a few years now, and is very low compared to many countries following the european social model the left claims we need to impose on ourselves.

Meanwhile, household assets are at an all time high. The savings rate is the only thing that is worrysome IMO.

[Harry Beanbag]

shutting down the borders should have been high priority at the beginning of the Cold War, it's not just the current administration that dropped the ball, but every administration since Truman.


True, but it seems to have gotten a tad more important and critical the last 5 years or so don't you think?

[Scott D]

Actually, the gap is pretty stable, as the US poverty rate has also been pretty stable for a few years now, and is very low compared to many countries following the european social model lefts claim we need to impose on ourselves.

oh it'll get wider.

[Scott D]

True, but it seems to have gotten a tad more important and critical the last 5 years or so don't you think?

as far as I'm concerned, no...it always should have been a high priority.

[Okla-homey]

Clerics in the mosques could denounce it. They could preach against it.
Have you seen or heard of one report on that?

Slick,
It doesn't matter what they say in the papers or on the news. What matters is what they're filling the heads of their youth with. I have looked these cats in the eye when they were brought in from their mountain hide-outs in Afghanistan. They're like Charles Manson without the dope or the Beatles. They're utterly, hopelessly unreachable. They believe with every ounce of their being that we must die because Allah wills it. There's no re-programming these guys. You just have to kill them.

[SoonerInKCMO]

No. I'm saying love your families hard and steel yourselves for what's yet to come. It ain't liable to be pretty and its going to get a lot worse before it gets better. We haven't known sacrifice as a nation since 1865.

Fixed.

I mean, comparing what our forbears went through in 1945 to what happened in Europe at the same time or between 1914 and 1918, is ludicrous.

[SoonerInKCMO]

They're utterly, hopelessly unreachable. They believe with every ounce of their being that we must die because Allah wills it. There's no re-programming these guys. You just have to kill them.

Another reason we need to do something about the Saudis and their oil money. It's their (Wahabbist's) money that's funding the religious schools throughout the Middle East that are teaching the hatred and intolerance to Arab youth.

[Jerk]

If Syria and Iran are "taken care of" then alot of these problems will go away (but not completly)

I think we could be on the verge of something very big...

All it will take is for Hizzbola to do something stupid, like tip one of those rockets with a nerve agent and launch it towards Haifa.

Bye bye Damascus!

And don't fool yourself about Israel needing U.S. help to take on Iran. They do have the capability to launch nuclear-tipped cruise missles from their deisel subs, which are probably more quiet than ours. They will do it if they feel threatened enough.

[OklahomaTuba]

With the modern lifestyle we all have, and so many people who don't really give a rats *** about anything, I wonder if we could survive a direct challenge the way our grandparents did in the 40s. Somedays I have doubts.

We need God more than ever now.

The time for Christians to stand up is coming, I believe.

[Scott D]

If Syria and Iran are "taken care of" then alot of these problems will go away (but not completly)

I think we could be on the verge of something very big...

All it will take is for Hizzbola to do something stupid, like tip one of those rockets with a nerve agent and launch it towards Haifa.

Bye bye Damascus!

what have I told you about balancing the amount of hallucinary medications you are on? :P

[Okla-homey]

Fixed.

I mean, comparing what our forbears went through in 1945 to what happened in Europe at the same time or between 1914 and 1918, is ludicrous.

Okay, 1865. I was merely trying to put it in perspective given the fact we are a nation at war and most folks don't feel it yet. Rather like the "Phoney War" in Europe right after the Nazis walked into Poland in the fall of '39. Sure, the Allies declared war, but things didn't really bust loose in Europe 'til Hitler invaded France in the spring of 1940.

[Jerk]

what have I told you about balancing the amount of hallucinary medications you are on? :P

I'm only nuts when I forget to take them.

[Okla-homey]

With the modern lifestyle we all have, and so many people who don't really give a rats *** about anything, I wonder if we could survive a direct challenge the way our grandparents did in the 40s. Somedays I have doubts.

We need God more than ever now.

Can you imagine the utter chaos that would ensue even if people's cell phones suddenly stopped working because it was deemed too militarily dangerous to allow wide-open wireless communication anymore in this country? What if the government had to force people to keep their thermostats at 80 in summer and 65 in winter to conserve resources for the war.:eek:

Of course, our great-grandparents would look down from heaven and laugh so hard they'd fall off their clouds.

[SoonerInKCMO]

Can you imagine the utter chaos that would ensue even if people's cell phones suddenly stopped working because it was deemed too militarily dangerous to allow wide-open wireless communication anymore in this country?

This would make me quite happy. :)

[SoonerInKCMO]

The time for Christians to stand up is coming, I believe.

And I believe the whole "my imaginary friend is cooler than yours" **** is a big part of the mess we find ourselves in right now.

:pop:

[OklahomaTuba]

Oh, and another thing...

The UN should be disbanded or shipped to Tehran for all I care. That is the biggest ****ing waste of space and money (sans the aggots stadium expansion) in world history.

How 2000 peace keepers can't do anything while Hezbollah arms themselves with 13,000+rockets right next door is beyond idiotic.

[OUinFLA]

Im gonna sell my shares of Sprint tomorrow.

[Okla-homey]

Oh, and another thing...

The UN should be disbanded or shipped to Tehran for all I care. That is the biggest ****ing waste of space and money (sans the aggots stadium expansion) in world history.

How 2000 peace keepers can't do anything while Hezbollah arms themselves with 13,000+rockets right next door is beyond idiotic.

The UN became irrelevant right after the Korean War IMHO. It hasn't done a thing since that mattered.

[royalfan5]

The UN became irrelevant right after the Korean War IMHO. It hasn't done a thing since that mattered.
But they have been slightly more effective than the League of Nations ever was.

[OklahomaTuba]

Can you imagine the utter chaos that would ensue even if people's cell phones suddenly stopped working because it was deemed too militarily dangerous to allow wide-open wireless communication anymore in this country? What if the government had to force people to keep their thermostats at 80 in summer and 65 in winter to conserve resources for the war.:eek:

Of course, our great-grandparents would look down from heaven and laugh so hard they'd fall off their clouds.

I experienced that first hand working at Cingular when 9-11 occured.

All of the north east US accounts are handled here in Tulsa, and we had people ****ed & wanting to be reimbursed because their service was interrupted after the attacks.

I still get tears thinking about the folks calling in trying to located lost loved ones thru their cell phone call records.

[mdklatt]

That brings up another sticking point - if muslims are "peace loving people"
WHY IN THE HELL ARE THEY NOT DENOUNCING TERRORISTS ON EVERY
OUTLET POSSIBLE?

Their religion is one of hated and intolerance.

If this is true, then trying to spreading democracy throughout the Middle East is the dumbest ****ing foreign policy idea ever. At least the *******s in charge of Pakistan, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia are our kind of *******s. What has democracy brought to Lebanon, Palestine, and Iran: government by durka durka. Iraq may not be far behind.

We need energy independence now so we can tell the crazy bastards all along the equator to go **** themselves and not have to mess with this nonsense.

[Jerk]

Well, I'm going to bed.

Folks, it is going to be endless warfare from here on out, probably for the rest of our lives.

[Okla-homey]

But they have been slightly more effective than the League of Nations ever was.

Yeah well chickens fly slightly better than penguins but neither are able to fly south for the winter.

[SoonerInKCMO]

Well, I'm going to bed.

Folks, it is going to be endless warfare from here on out, probably for the rest of our lives.

When have we not had warfare? There's always some **** going down somewhere.

[mdklatt]

When have we not had warfare? There's always some **** going down somewhere.

It's usually not surrounding the centerpiece of our economy.

[slickdawg]

Slick,
It doesn't matter what they say in the papers or on the news. What matters is what they're filling the heads of their youth with. I have looked these cats in the eye when they were brought in from their mountain hide-outs in Afghanistan. They're like Charles Manson without the dope or the Beatles. They're utterly, hopelessly unreachable. They believe with every ounce of their being that we must die because Allah wills it. There's no re-programming these guys. You just have to kill them.

I can't argue with that. My BIL, and every person I've talked to that's served over there says the same thing.

But I also hear stories of hope, which makes it hard. There are some
over there that greatly appreciate what we are doing. You hate to punish
to good ones because of the bad ones, but I am afraid we won't have
a choice.

[slickdawg]

Oh, and another thing...

The UN should be disbanded or shipped to Tehran for all I care. That is the biggest ****ing waste of space and money (sans the aggots stadium expansion) in world history.

How 2000 peace keepers can't do anything while Hezbollah arms themselves with 13,000+rockets right next door is beyond idiotic.


AMEN!!!!!

[slickdawg]

If this is true, then trying to spreading democracy throughout the Middle East is the dumbest ****ing foreign policy idea ever. At least the *******s in charge of Pakistan, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia are our kind of *******s. What has democracy brought to Lebanon, Palestine, and Iran: government by durka durka. Iraq may not be far behind.

We need energy independence now so we can tell the crazy bastards all along the equator to go **** themselves and not have to mess with this nonsense.

NUCLEAR POWER AND HYDROGEN FUEL CELLS!!!!! AFRERGEWRG$FQ#GQERGQ#$G#QGERHER

[mdklatt]

NUCLEAR POWER AND HYDROGEN FUEL CELLS!!!!! AFRERGEWRG$FQ#GQERGQ#$G#QGERHER

Wind power, biofuels, solar...lots of things to choose from.

[slickdawg]

Wind power, biofuels, solar...lots of things to choose from.

Amen brother, you are preaching to the choir!

[picasso]

our economy will crash if 9/11 part 2 ever happens. but, it might wake the country up again. even if for a moment.

[soonerscuba]

Yeah well chickens fly slightly better than penguins but neither are able to fly south for the winter.

I don't think the penguins give a **** what season it is.

[Frozen Sooner]

Why would penguins fly south? They pretty much live as far south as you're going to get...

[Jerk]

Why would penguins fly south? They pretty much live as far south as you're going to get...

Antartica?

That would be a great place to relocate U.N. Headquarters to.

They couldn't be any less effective.

[GDC]

I thought the UN was coming to Oklahoma.

[colleyvillesooner]

I thought the UN was coming to Oklahoma.

No, it's the Sonics.

[Tear Down This Wall]

If Western leaders don't grow some balls quick, my newborn son will someday be marching off to war against the islamofascist. The time to act is now. And, I mean, now!

By "now", I don't mean endless debate in the U.N. or a half-as*sed assembly of NATO "peacekeeping" forces. When I say "now", I mean WWII-ending type of destruction.

The islamofascists need to understand that we can and will end this war the way we ended WWII - complete and utter annihilation of an enemy unwilling to lay down its arms.

[sooner n houston]

If Western leaders don't grow some balls quick, my newborn son will someday be marching off to war against the islamofascist. The time to act is now. And, I mean, now!

By "now", I don't mean endless debate in the U.N. or a half-as*sed assembly of NATO "peacekeeping" forces. When I say "now", I mean WWII-ending type of destruction.

The islamofascists need to understand that we can and will end this war the way we ended WWII - complete and utter annihilation of an enemy unwilling to lay down its arms.

So very true. It is so scary I don't think we have the will! :(

[nanimonai]

Just wait until Pakistan builds that plutonium reactor they're planning.
I for one feel comfortable as hell with country full of Islamic radicals churning out 50 nukes per year.

[Okla-homey]

So very true. It is so scary I don't think we have the will! :(

We will after one of our cities gets converted to radioactive steam.

That's what its going to take IMHO.

Too many folks are opposed to pre-emptive strikes. Not me, I think they make good sense, but I'm just a broke-down old GI with no political aspirations.

[JohnnyMack]

And I believe the whole "my imaginary friend is cooler than yours" **** is a big part of the mess we find ourselves in right now.

:pop:

Heh.

[nanimonai]

All it takes is one nuke to set off the whole cold-war style mutual assured destruction.
The Russians can't afford to not launch a preemptive attack on us once we're lobbing ICBM's around the globe.

Best you can hope for is to live pretty close to the blast zone so it's quick and easy.

[JohnnyMack]

Have the Islamo-fascists declared war on China?

[Okla-homey]

All it takes is one nuke to set off the whole cold-war style mutual assured destruction.
The Russians can't afford to not launch a preemptive attack on us once we're lobbing ICBM's around the globe.

Best you can hope for is to live pretty close to the blast zone so it's quick and easy.

Who said anything about ICBMs? We still have scads of ALCMs and SLCMs laying around, and they can be set to varying yield levels.

[OklahomaTuba]

Not to add fuel to the fire, but the next world wide socialist revolution just got a big old boost from Russia and Venezuala...


Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said Wednesday that his oil-rich nation will sign major arms deals in Moscow to acquire Russian fighter jets and produce Kalashnikov assault rifles, as Russia shrugged off U.S. criticism of the weapons sales.
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/07/26/chavez.russia.ap/

[TexasLidig8r]

Homey....the concern with the Chinese is well placed.

It is estimated that in 2010, the aggregate petroleum demand of China would reach 350 million tons to 380 million tons, and China's petroleum import dependency would reach 51.4% to 52.6%. China's oil import dependency was only 29.1% in 2000.

It's gotta come from somewhere and with their domestic production unable to keep up with the demand, it makes you wonder how much longer they will be content to sit quietly behind the scenes as the Middle East unravels.

And they don't need a Blue Water Navy to become a majory player in the Middle East.

[Scott D]

Not to add fuel to the fire, but the next world wide socialist revolution just got a big old boost from Russia and Venezuala...


Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said Wednesday that his oil-rich nation will sign major arms deals in Moscow to acquire Russian fighter jets and produce Kalashnikov assault rifles, as Russia shrugged off U.S. criticism of the weapons sales.

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/07/26/chavez.russia.ap/

The Kalashnikov Fourty Seven. When you absolutely positively need your machine gun fire to sound the same as gang members and guerrila fighters the world over, accept no substitutes.

[Harry Beanbag]

And they don't need a Blue Water Navy to become a majory player in the Middle East.


They're going to have some pretty large logistical problems if they want to pursue and support a full scale war in the Middle East if they don't get one. The mega vast majority of their population is in the eastern half of the country and the western half looks to be comprised nearly completely of giant mountain ranges and uninhabited desert.

[Okla-homey]

Homey....the concern with the Chinese is well placed.

It is estimated that in 2010, the aggregate petroleum demand of China would reach 350 million tons to 380 million tons, and China's petroleum import dependency would reach 51.4% to 52.6%. China's oil import dependency was only 29.1% in 2000.

It's gotta come from somewhere and with their domestic production unable to keep up with the demand, it makes you wonder how much longer they will be content to sit quietly behind the scenes as the Middle East unravels.

And they don't need a Blue Water Navy to become a majory player in the Middle East.

I beg to differ. How are they going to get there? Walk? Their lines of supply would be so extended they couldn't possibly sustain an offensive. Plus, there would be a billion (literally) p1ssed-off Indians on their left flank as they moved towards oil country. The CHICOMs would have to do two things to become a player in that part of the world. One, they would need a first-rate air force. Secondly, they would require a blue water navy. Without either, they simply couldn't do anything but sabre-rattle and perhaps pop nukes in order to spoil the party for everyone else.

[MamaMia]

Personally I think we should just make sure we have the biggest war toys so nobody will bother us. Let the Navy Seals kill all the threatening people, as they come along, real secret like, and blame it on Korea. Then we can use our money to make America a better place to live. You know, less taxes, better health care, and all that jazz. :)

[1stTimeCaller]

I do know that Noble Drilling has contracted with the Chinese Government to take one of their off shore rigs that was in the Gulf of Mexico to China for 5 years. I've also heard that others are going to be doing the same with their GoM offshore platforms.

Maybe that's how they plan to increase their domestic drilling.

[Scott D]

I beg to differ. How are they going to get there? Walk? Their lines of supply would be so extended they couldn't possibly sustain an offensive. Plus, there would be a billion (literally) p1ssed-off Indians on their left flank as they moved towards oil country. The CHICOMs would have to do two things to become a player in that part of the world. One, they would need a first-rate air force. Secondly, they would require a blue water navy. Without either, they simply couldn't do anything but sabre-rattle and perhaps pop nukes in order to spoil the party for everyone else.

what makes you think they haven't been building up either of them, looks interesting with that increase in oil consumption.....

[Mjcpr]

Sweet! They're bound to work something out with those 3 getting together.


Tirade from Tehran (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,205883,00.html)

Iranian president fires warning (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,205883,00.html)

Hezbollah, Iran, Syria meet to discuss strategy as Ahmadinejad volleys threats at Israel

[Harry Beanbag]

what makes you think they haven't been building up either of them, looks interesting with that increase in oil consumption.....


That's not something they can really do in secret now days.

[Scott D]

That's not something they can really do in secret now days.

not something that would generally leak out when we're suppossed to have our attention on the middle east and the crazy guy in north korea either ;)

[TexasLidig8r]

I beg to differ. How are they going to get there? Walk? Their lines of supply would be so extended they couldn't possibly sustain an offensive. Plus, there would be a billion (literally) p1ssed-off Indians on their left flank as they moved towards oil country. The CHICOMs would have to do two things to become a player in that part of the world. One, they would need a first-rate air force. Secondly, they would require a blue water navy. Without either, they simply couldn't do anything but sabre-rattle and perhaps pop nukes in order to spoil the party for everyone else.

Jane, you Ignorant Sl*t... ;)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A55414-2004Nov16.html

Just how cozy will them Red Pinko Commie MoFos get with the Ayatollahs and the Nutcase Prez of Iran? How soon will it be before the Pinkos start to supply Iran with upgraded military hardware, and of course, initially, the advisers to train the Iran Militia how to use it?

[mdklatt]

US sanctions two India firms for transfers to Iran (http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=2244477)


Under terms of the U.S. Iran-Syria Non-proliferation Act, "we are going to report to Congress about transactions by two private Indian companies with Iran," one official said.

He and another official declined to identify the firms but one official said the transfers involve "dual-use items related to missiles."



Good times.

[Jerk]

I used to own an AK-47.

It's a good weapon for peasants.

[Stoop Dawg]

That needs to be in 60 point font on the front page

MUSLIM CLERICS DENOUNCE TERRORISM

I think that headline was in today's paper - right under "Christian leaders denounce Israeli slaughter of civilians".

[Stoop Dawg]

And I believe the whole "my imaginary friend is cooler than yours" **** is a big part of the mess we find ourselves in right now.

:pop:

But MINE is not imaginary, dammit!! I even have a book that says so!