Why was Auburn so good in '04? Most didn't go to class

[AlabamaSooner]

With the 2004 season being so heated down the stretch with which of the three teams (OU, USC, Auburn) should go to the Orange Bowl, I found the following article interesting. Needless to say, it's getting a lot of talk on tidefans.com right now and probably will nationally soon.

Good thing this isn't a problem at OU. I remember hearing from a friend of mine who is a trainer that if OU football players missed ONE class, they were in the doghouse.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/13/sports/13cnd-auburn.html?hp&ex=1152849600&en=c25d9c5a7d313bfc&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[Octavian]

I was just about to post this.


The 18 football players received an average G.P.A. of 3.31 in the ("athlete-friendly") classes, according to statistics compiled by Professor Gundlach. In all of their other credit hours at Auburn, their average was 2.14.


"It was at that point that I figured the corruption runs the full gantlet of the administration,” Professor Gundlach said. “We were getting sociology majors graduating without taking sociology classes..."


...the players received 81.1 percent A’s and 16.8 percent B’s in directed-reading courses with Professor Petee. After the meeting (when the "athlete-friendly" professor stopped "helping"), those numbers fell to 40.9 percent A’s and 51.7 percent B’s.


star running back Carnell (Cadillac) Williams, now playing in the National Football League, said the only two classes he took during the spring semester of his senior year were one-on-one courses with Professor Petee.

They could be in some hot water.

[mildpussy]

anyone need a new avatar?

http://www.auburn.edu/academic/liberal_arts/sociology/bios/gundlach.htm

i trust petee more - he graduated from nutter dame after all

http://www.auburn.edu/academic/liberal_arts/sociology/bios/peete.htm

[BOOMERBRADLEY]

not good for them

[Big Red Ron]

The "People's National Champions"

heh...

[yermom]

The "People's National Champions"

heh...

we could end up with 2 titles from that year ;)

[Soonerman08]

Yeah and I find it that we were the only team to not cheat that year. That's satisfying.

[Rhino]

I wonder if the NCAA is going to take away their national cha...ohhhhh yeahhhh...

[AlabamaSooner]

Nice links for the avatar pics :-p

[caphorns]

Yeah and I find it that we were the only team to not cheat that year. That's satisfying.

:rolleyes:

zoom zoom zoom

[NormanPride]

My biggest fear with this program is that we'll slip again. I don't want to cheat. I would rather be mediocre and clean than excellent and a cheater.

[NormanPride]

:rolleyes:

zoom zoom zoom

"Sips are up to it again…..OK I am pretty sure everyone on here is aware of the “504” crap Mack is pulling all over the state of Texas. So here is a little story that is absolute fact.

Tracy class of 90 and my wife’s roommate from A&M is a counselor in the Dallas area. I can not give out her school, she is afraid she will lose her job. She has been the counselor for six years and loves the position. Now, there is this student that is a junior, his grades are very low, trouble maker….but a great athlete. She claims there is no way in hell he would ever get in any JC, much less a D1. Mack went and visited the school last spring some time. Later Tracy got a note from the school’s AD to test this student for a “504” title. The district prides its self in NOT giving out “504” labels, they try to work with every student. When she told the AD that she did not think it was necessary she got a phone call from an assistant coach (from tu) telling her that it was in the school’s best interest to get this done. The school year ended and she did not test the student…….well in June she received calls from her principal, a school board member (tu grad) and then the mother of this student. Well Tracy went to another counselor to ask what the big deal was about this one student. She was informed that tu has been notified that THEY (tu) are labeling an excessive number of players. The problem would go away if the players were already labeled Before they applied for tu. When Tracy went to work on Monday morning the battery of test for a “504” were on here desk, with a hand written not “This issue will be solved by August or you will no longer be needed in this district!” To say the least she was very angry……..but will apply the test. An interesting comment came from the mother, she was told by the coaches in Austin her son has done the hard part of college and that was being a great ball player, they told her to leave the academic part to them and one day her son will be a star…………"

:rolleyes:

[caphorns]

By the way, I know what a Lexus' is but what the hell is a 504?

[Dio]

You don't have to go to an ag school to get on the Dexter Manley plan...

...but it helps.

[Dio]

By the way, I know what a Lexus' is but what the hell is a 504?

Ask Mack- apparently he knows.

[Desert Sapper]

http://www.tea.state.tx.us/special.ed/sec504/sec504.pdf

For everyone's general education.

[mildpussy]

section 504 prohibits discrimination on the basis of disability. in response, many schools make accommodations for disabled students (e.g., provide them with additional time to take a test).

I really don't see what the hub-bub is about. As Ishmael Boorg said (i may be paraphrasing): "We Amish do everything you do plus a half. You work 8 hours, we work 12. You bowl 10 frames we bowl 15." Seems like Peete was doing what was required-giving extra extra-credit.

for those who demand links

http://mymovies.imdb.com/title/tt0116778/quotes

http://www.504idea.org/504overview.html

http://www.utexas.edu/student/registrar/catalogs/gi05-06/ch1/ch1a.html

ETA - did not see desert sapper's post (so ignore the second and third links above)

[TexasLidig8r]

"Sips are up to it again…..OK I am pretty sure everyone on here is aware of the “504” crap Mack is pulling all over the state of Texas. So here is a little story that is absolute fact.

Tracy class of 90 and my wife’s roommate from A&M is a counselor in the Dallas area. I can not give out her school, she is afraid she will lose her job. She has been the counselor for six years and loves the position. Now, there is this student that is a junior, his grades are very low, trouble maker….but a great athlete. She claims there is no way in hell he would ever get in any JC, much less a D1. Mack went and visited the school last spring some time. Later Tracy got a note from the school’s AD to test this student for a “504” title. The district prides its self in NOT giving out “504” labels, they try to work with every student. When she told the AD that she did not think it was necessary she got a phone call from an assistant coach (from tu) telling her that it was in the school’s best interest to get this done. The school year ended and she did not test the student…….well in June she received calls from her principal, a school board member (tu grad) and then the mother of this student. Well Tracy went to another counselor to ask what the big deal was about this one student. She was informed that tu has been notified that THEY (tu) are labeling an excessive number of players. The problem would go away if the players were already labeled Before they applied for tu. When Tracy went to work on Monday morning the battery of test for a “504” were on here desk, with a hand written not “This issue will be solved by August or you will no longer be needed in this district!” To say the least she was very angry……..but will apply the test. An interesting comment came from the mother, she was told by the coaches in Austin her son has done the hard part of college and that was being a great ball player, they told her to leave the academic part to them and one day her son will be a star…………"

:rolleyes:

Well, I heard from a friend who has a friend, whose niece is the second cousin, once removed, from an acquaintance, who once knew someone in that undisclosed high school, that that story was just a vicious rumor!

By the way Pride.. I noticed you using the term "Sip" and "tu." Those terms are pretty much exclusively used by sheep humpin' aggy. You have some aggy in you?

[Dio]

so.....would scoring unbelieveably low on some kind of standardized intelligence test administered by a prospective employer indicate a "handicapped" individual that might qualify as a 504?

Hmmmmm....

[caphorns]

The district prides its self in NOT giving out “504” labels, they try to work with every student.

I don't get it? They take pride in not aknowledging the existence of a handicap? OK. Does start to smell of aggy just a little bit. Their probably just jealous because by acknowledging the handicap these kids are no longer forced to go to aggy training camp at Blinn JC.

[NormanPride]

Well, I heard from a friend who has a friend, whose niece is the second cousin, once removed, from an acquaintance, who once knew someone in that undisclosed high school, that that story was just a vicious rumor!

By the way Pride.. I noticed you using the term "Sip" and "tu." Those terms are pretty much exclusively used by sheep humpin' aggy. You have some aggy in you?

Heh. Notice it was in quotes... I was quoting some stupid sheep humper of the Texas variety. My point is, all these rumors are just the same. Rumors.

Honestly, I hope you guys aren't doing anything stupid. Losing Texas to probation would make it easier for the RRS to move away from Dallas. :mad:

[Octavian]

people....focus.

We have plenty of time to hate each other.

This thread is about kickin' Auburn while they're down. ;)

[TexasLidig8r]

Heh. Notice it was in quotes... I was quoting some stupid sheep humper of the Texas variety. My point is, all these rumors are just the same. Rumors.

Honestly, I hope you guys aren't doing anything stupid. Losing Texas to probation would make it easier for the RRS to move away from Dallas. :mad:

heh.. I stand corrected.. and apologize if for ANY implication that you may have been related in any manner to sheep humpin aggy. :D

as for Auburn.. eh. who cares?

[jackietreehorn]

Yeah and I find it that we were the only team to not cheat that year. That's satisfying.

Bullsh1t. mark bradley got paid off--that's cheating in my book. kidding guys...kind of.:rolleyes:

[jackietreehorn]

I would rather be mediocre and clean than excellent and a cheater.

seriously?

[TheGodfather889]

The only thing that would bother me about players at OU not going to class is if they got caught and the players and or the program were punished. Personally,I think what they teach in school is junk. Except if it's a class that teaches you how to do a future job.

[Big Red Ron]

The only thing that would bother me about players at OU not going to class is if they got caught and the players and or the program were punished. Personally,I think what they teach in school is junk. Except if it's a class that teaches you how to do a future job.The other classes are about teaching responsibility and discipline. Anyone can go through job training, not everyone can hack earning a college degree. Which is why a 24 year old with a degree often gets paid more than a 40 year old with experience, young grasshopper.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Yeah but I hate math :( Damm you Gen-Eds!!!

[jackietreehorn]

Personally,I think what they teach in school is junk. Except if it's a class that teaches you how to do a future job.

no football at vo tech sir. but you're right, a lot of it's crap.

[mildpussy]

interesting take at Northwestern site - the question i have is whether there is anyone on this board who DIDN'T seek out one of these "gut/easy" classes while in school

http://northwestern.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=57&tid=75794438&sid=&style=2

General message is:

"This is much ado about nothing. This is basically an article about an easy class and a softee prof. Every school has them, even Northwestern.

What this "groundbreaking" article tells us is....

A. There are some easy classes at Auburn which are open to all students.

and

B. Football players are among some of those students who take these classes.

C. When members of the faculty started telling one of these profs that he might be going too far, he immediately changed his behavior.

This is news? Give me a break.

Let's hope the New York Times doesn't discover "Highlights of Astronomy"!"

[RedstickSooner]

interesting take at Northwestern site - the question i have is whether there is anyone on this board who DIDN'T seek out one of these "gut/easy" classes while in school

http://northwestern.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=57&tid=75794438&sid=&style=2

General message is:

"This is much ado about nothing. This is basically an article about an easy class and a softee prof. Every school has them, even Northwestern.

What this "groundbreaking" article tells us is....

A. There are some easy classes at Auburn which are open to all students.

and

B. Football players are among some of those students who take these classes.

C. When members of the faculty started telling one of these profs that he might be going too far, he immediately changed his behavior.

This is news? Give me a break.

Let's hope the New York Times doesn't discover "Highlights of Astronomy"!"

Sure, everyone takes a few easy courses in their load -- but an "independent study" where you meet one-on-one with the prof, and don't have to do squat?

There's no way that was truly open to all students. Guy is the head of the entire department -- and if that class was truly open, every waking moment of his life would be taken up by handling the class.

Sounds more like it was created, probably listed cryptically in the course catalog, buried somewhere, and football players were clued in that it was a perfect way to be eligible.

The fact that these bogus classes were "open" to all students doesn't matter much if they were created for football players and those players were then directed to 'em.

One possible solution would be for schools to be required to post the courses their players take each semester. For privacy, obviously, they couldn't list individual players -- but they could list how many players were signed up for each course. Then, regular students would at least know where to hunt for the best bogus classes, at schools that are giving their "student-athletes" the ability to bypass the student part.

[Soonerman08]

I don't get it? They take pride in not aknowledging the existence of a handicap? OK. Does start to smell of aggy just a little bit. Their probably just jealous because by acknowledging the handicap these kids are no longer forced to go to aggy training camp at Blinn JC.



Wait...back the truck up! So you mean to tell me that the "Harvard of the South" (Texas supposedly) :rolleyes: free willingly administors what you call "handicapped" people. Nobody ever said he was a handicap, just a trouble making dumbass who can't keep his grades up because he wants to be like Vince Young. It clearly states they are willing to work with kids to help them, not give up on them and let them get bye by taking some test that says you're a guy that doesn't know his *** from a hole in the ground. Being ignorant and being handicap are two completely different things. A handicap kid wouldn't be playing football anyways. Sounds to me all they wanted to do is help.

[OKC-SLC]

You have some aggy in you?
NTTAWWT.

[Frozen Sooner]

Wait...back the truck up! So you mean to tell me that the "Harvard of the South" (Texas supposedly) :rolleyes: free willingly administors what you call "handicapped" people. Nobody ever said he was a handicap, just a trouble making dumbass who can't keep his grades up because he wants to be like Vince Young. It clearly states they are willing to work with kids to help them, not give up on them and let them get bye by taking some test that says you're a guy that doesn't know his *** from a hole in the ground. Being ignorant and being handicap are two completely different things. A handicap kid wouldn't be playing football anyways. Sounds to me all they wanted to do is help.

There's so much wrong with this post it's unbelievable.

There are plenty of people who are handicapped playing football and basketball at major universities all over the country, including at OU.

The crux of Dusty Dvoracek's eligibility appeal was over handicap-alcohol addiction is a recognized handicap under the ADA.

Keith Clark will be playing for OU (if he does) almost solely because he was able to take an untimed ACT due to a learning disability-which is a handicap under ADA.

Hell, wanting to play at Texas in and of itself is prima faciae evidence of a mental disorder.

[Soonerman08]

There's so much wrong with this post it's unbelievable.

There are plenty of people who are handicapped playing football and basketball at major universities all over the country, including at OU.

The crux of Dusty Dvoracek's eligibility appeal was over handicap-alcohol addiction is a recognized handicap under the ADA.

Keith Clark will be playing for OU (if he does) almost solely because he was able to take an untimed ACT due to a learning disability-which is a handicap under ADA.

Hell, wanting to play at Texas in and of itself is prima faciae evidence of a mental disorder.



That's true, and I understand learning disabilities, but as I stated there is a difference between having a learning disability and just being lazy and ignorant. Case in point I wasn't poking fun at anyone with a learning disability, but it sounds to me that the school was just wanting to help out a troubled young man by not giving him the easy way out. That's the point I am trying to get at.

[mildpussy]

Sure, everyone takes a few easy courses in their load -- but an "independent study" where you meet one-on-one with the prof, and don't have to do squat?

There's no way that was truly open to all students. Guy is the head of the entire department -- and if that class was truly open, every waking moment of his life would be taken up by handling the class.

Sounds more like it was created, probably listed cryptically in the course catalog, buried somewhere, and football players were clued in that it was a perfect way to be eligible.

The fact that these bogus classes were "open" to all students doesn't matter much if they were created for football players and those players were then directed to 'em.

One possible solution would be for schools to be required to post the courses their players take each semester. For privacy, obviously, they couldn't list individual players -- but they could list how many players were signed up for each course. Then, regular students would at least know where to hunt for the best bogus classes, at schools that are giving their "student-athletes" the ability to bypass the student part.

Of course, the indepedent studies are never "truly" open. Generally, the instructor has to approve a student request for the course. But, it is clear from the article that the instructor did not restrict the independent study just for athletes. And, it would be discriminatory for a professor to create a course just for athletes, and/or to restrict the course to athletes (if he had restricted the course to athletes, this would have been a bigger story, and a bigger problem for him).

As an aside, I agree that independent courses can be cryptic in that they listed by a simple course number of title (e.g., Ag Econ 469: Independent Study). So you do not really know what is being taught. But, it is easy for the school to find out - I am pretty sure that the Auburn professor has some proof of this (in the form of a deliverable form the student - a term paper usually suffices), otherwise he would be in serious trouble. It also seems from the NYT article that the athlete-students did some work for the independent study courses (probably as much as they would in one of the easy courses offered by Auburn). For instance, I would think that the Auburn athletes did at least as much work in the independent study that Katzenmoyer did in the Aids Awareness and Basket Weaving summer courses he miraculously passed at The Ohio State University.

A lighter aside: Independent studies are sometimes offered with a specific title such as ANSI 3753: Basic Nutrition for Pets - click the link below for the last one, and other such options).

http://uedb2.ue.okstate.edu/ics/cinfo.asp?area=ANSI&number=3753


In any case, I do not deny that athletes are given special benefits. But, I do not really have a problem with that, given the enjoyment I derive from watching them compete (and because they also effectively working a full time job at the time). In sum, I'll stick to the original point, as the quote I highlighted from the NU site indicated, at some base level, there is really nothing unique about Auburn in this - all schools give advantages to athletes to a degree (by providing tutors, directing students to easy courses and/or instructors).

[Big Red Ron]

people....focus.

We have plenty of time to hate each other.

This thread is about kickin' Auburn while they're down. ;)

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Octavian again.

[SelmaBamaFan]

The Auburn fanbase is like their sociology dept, they dont have class...

[mildpussy]

new updates from espn.com
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2520055

the last three paragraphs from the article are below. seems that the bearded clam (gundlach - see picture in link on p. 1) was throwing a hissy fit because a criminologist (peete) was encroaching on his turf (big diss on the sociologists i guess). also, the clam (teaching ratings at

http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=282271

admits that the directed readings were not just for athletes.


Gundlach said he found that more than a quarter of the students in Petee's directed-reading classes were athletes.

He also told the Opelika-Auburn News that Petee started doing the directed-reading in small numbers just in criminology courses but the numbers grew and included sociology, which Gundlach teaches.

"I didn't think it was appropriate for him to take over teaching the sociology major entirely on his own in a directed-reading format. It was an insult to me and what I do," Gundlach said.

[Jason White's Third Knee]

My biggest fear with this program is that we'll slip again. I don't want to cheat. I would rather be mediocre and clean than excellent and a cheater.

Come on. The Boz cheated and we loved him. I think it's the manner in which we cheat. I don't like the way that usc is getting away with paying players. And I can't let a man be a player when he isn't a student. But for God's sake, let them keep their performance enhancing drugs! Otherwise, we are back to the days of the 220lb linebacker and that's just sad.

[Jason White's Third Knee]

"I didn't do nothing illegal or anything like that," Williams, now a tailback with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=tam), told the Times. "My work was good. It was definitely real work."


Langenfeld was battling to remain academically eligible for Auburn's Sugar Bowl game when he dropped one course and picked up a nine-week criminology class. He said he took the class at the advice of his academic counselor and that it wasn't comprised only of athletes.


"I don't know if any teachers give away free grades," Langenfeld told The Huntsville Times. "If they do, they're not at Auburn."




Hahahaaahahaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!