View Full Version : Questions Regarding Indian Casinos.
FaninAma
7/13/2006, 02:21 PM
What is allowed and not allowed in the state of Oklahoma, ie. are there sports books in the casinos in Oklahoma?
Has the increase in casinos been a net positive for the state in your opinion? After learning of how the Chickasaw Nation spends their money I would have to say "yes". They have some really good programs that are funded partly by the gaming profits including a lot of programs for children and the elderly.
Boarder
7/13/2006, 02:25 PM
No sports books.
I have never been in one, actually, even though there's one a 1/4 mile from my work and about 5 miles from my house.
From what I hear, it's a bunch of slot machines, strange blackjack that you pay .50 per hand to play, and poker where you play against others, not the house.
I don't see where they've hurt anything (except maybe the Horse Tracks). They've brought in a bunch of jobs. 1800+ are about to open in Norman.
Boarder
7/13/2006, 02:26 PM
The new one in Norman is supposed to have a buffet, concert venue, etc, just like Vegas.
When they get real Vegas craps, I may be in trouble.
When they get real Vegas craps, I may be in trouble.
That's what I'd like to see.
BlondeSoonerGirl
7/13/2006, 02:27 PM
When they get real Vegas craps, I may be in trouble.
Why? Do they have sequins and glitter in them?
Ow.
Boarder
7/13/2006, 02:27 PM
You have sequins and glitter.
BlondeSoonerGirl
7/13/2006, 02:34 PM
Your mom goes to college.
I saw an old boy win $30K out here at Cherokee Casino the other night.
FaninAma
7/13/2006, 02:46 PM
I saw an old boy win $30K out here at Cherokee Casino the other night.
What was he playing?
What was he playing?
Slots, which I avoid. At least with the video poker you have some input and decisions to make and technically with proper play on the right machine, you actually have the advantage over the house. This is never true in slots.
All you need to know about Indian casinos: They suck.
They suck. They suck. They suck.
And if anyone tries to tell you they don't suck, then they suck.
They may suck, but they brought in $22 billion dollars total last year across the country. Vegas took in half that.
In what way does a casino bringing in more money not suck for the customer?
nanimonai
7/13/2006, 11:20 PM
Slots, which I avoid. At least with the video poker you have some input and decisions to make and technically with proper play on the right machine, you actually have the advantage over the house. This is never true in slots.
Not at any Oklahoma casinos, they don't have any positive video poker machines.
They way it's set up now the casino games that are WORST for players are the only legal ones. Go figure that one out....
On top of the ****ty blackjack rules, you get to pay .50 for the privilege of losing your money faster.
I wouldn't be shocked if they introduced dollar bill changers that gave you back 85 cents.:bsmf:
In what way does a casino bringing in more money not suck for the customer?
Nobody forces them to come down and spend their money, apparently there must be some degree of entertainment value for the customer. The tribes are plowing the cash back into tribal services, housing, and development, not to mention the jobs the casinos have created.
BOOMERBRADLEY
7/14/2006, 12:26 AM
The Choctaw casino in Durant is supposed to be nice, but I have never been in it.
Gandalf_The_Grey
7/14/2006, 12:27 AM
Casino's do alot of good things really. Specifically within their nation. An election is about to come up and I plan on getting free rent and all sorts of free stuff. Last time an election come around. I got a free Microwave, a free air conditioner, I got a free Ham :P Had a place to get a free meal every week about twice a week, Got an increase in my tuition assistance, got a job raise, There was alot more but I forget!! But due to State Law 712, The education department get's a big cut of the slot and card game related funds. I love Casino's because they give me paychecks and because I don't play in them so basically I go to Casino's and never lose ;)
the_ouskull
7/14/2006, 12:50 AM
My only problem with casinos is that there aren't more of them.
...or at least better ones. This new one opening in Norman, Winstar or something, Windtalkers... I don't know... anyway, I think it's going to KILL the business of places like Thunderbird, and Lucky Star, etc..
The poker room is going to be HUGE. They are doing buffets... They're going to have a beer / wine bar until they're able to find a way to get liquor. I "know" a girl that works there. I've got the scoop.
the_ouskull
AllAboutThe'O'
7/14/2006, 12:54 AM
I've been to the Choctaw Casino in Pocola only once in the 5-plus years I've lived 'cross the border.
And to think, when I used to work in Louisiana, there was a casino about 45 minutes away that I would frequent.
Gandalf_The_Grey
7/14/2006, 01:20 AM
It won't kill those Casino's at all. You may not believe it but I was at the Casino in Durant when they had 50 slots, I was there when they had like 200, I was there when they had over a 1000 and now they have like 20 million and one thing that was constant was the fact that the place was full whenever the weekends rolled around, regardless of the number of slots.
Okla-homey
7/14/2006, 05:27 AM
As of last month, the combined profits from all Indian casinos nationally exceeded the profits realized from all gaming in Vegas and Atlantic City. Pretty amazing when you factor-in the demographic characteristics of people who frequent Indian casinos versus the people who play in Vegas and Atlantic City.
As of last month, the combined profits from all Indian casinos nationally exceeded the profits realized from all gaming in Vegas and Atlantic City. Pretty amazing when you factor-in the demographic characteristics of people who frequent Indian casinos versus the people who play in Vegas and Atlantic City.
I read an article about that recently, but it was gaming revenue and it only mentioned Vegas.
Maybe we read different articles. :D
Tribes: Casino Revenue: Gaming receipts double Nevada's
By Staff and Wire Reports
7/12/2006
Indian gambling has seen double-digit revenue growth nearly every year.
WASHINGTON -- Tribal casinos pulled in $22.6 billion in gambling revenue nationwide last year, double the take of Nevada gambling, as American Indian casinos recorded another record year, the industry trade group reported Tuesday.
The revenue was a 15 percent increase from the $19.6 billion Indian gambling reaped in 2004, according to the National Indian Gaming Association. Tribal gambling has recorded double-digit growth almost every year since Congress created the legal framework for it in 1988.
There are 408 Indian gambling facilities nationwide, including 247 full-blown casinos with slot machines and other Las Vegas-style games. Other gambling centers are smaller or offer video poker, bingo or other games short of slots.
The facilities are operated by 223 Indian tribes in 28 states.
Oklahoma has 83 tribal gaming centers, with several more planned or under construction.
Gaming facilities in the state range from the very large -- like the Cherokee Nation's 95,000-square-foot casino in Catoosa with 1,500 electronic games and 70 card-game tables -- to the very small, such as laundry facilities with a single machine.
In its revenue report, the National Indian Gaming Association sought to highlight the economic benefits of tribal gambling to state and federal treasuries. The report said Indian gambling generated $2 billion in 2005 for states through revenue-sharing agreements and other means, and billions more in federal taxes, revenue and savings -- including an estimated $1.5 billion in reduced welfare and unemployment taxes.
Despite the growth in Oklahoma, the state's take has been below what advocates of State Question 712 predicted. SQ 712, passed in November, authorized tribes to offer card games and more sophisticated electronic machines.
Proponents estimated about $71 million a year for education funding in Oklahoma. The state looks to collect about $19.7 million less than that this fiscal year.
Oklahoma tribal casino revenues, initially projected at $40.5 million for the current year, are estimated to be $15 million.
Nevada casinos brought in $11.6 billion from gambling in 2005, according to the Nevada Gaming Control Board. Unlike Indian casinos, though, Nevada casinos rely on other entertainment like hotels, restaurants and shows for about half their revenue, pushing their total take for 2005 past $20 billion.
Indian casinos took in about $2.7 billion last year from nongambling entertainment.
The growth of Indian casinos has caused a backlash in some communities, partly because tribes, as sovereign governments, are not bound by most state or local zoning or tax laws. Congress is considering legislation to block tribes from building casinos away from their reservations.
Indian gambling also generated 600,000 jobs nationwide last year, the report said.
In Oklahoma, tribes together have become the largest employer in the state. Their budgets combined exceed the state's budget.
"Indian gaming is continuing to create much-needed jobs and opportunity," said Ernest L. Stevens Jr., chairman of the National Indian Gaming Association. But he said the industry's growth now is focused more on expanding existing facilities than building new ones.
"It is likely that our growth will slow in the future, yet we will continue to have sustainable growth as the general public continues to demand new entertainment opportunities," he said in a statement.
The report did not disclose industry profits, something the National Indian Gaming Association says is proprietary to individual tribes, most of which keep the information private. Nevada's major hotel-casinos earned $1.8 billion before federal taxes in fiscal 2005.
According to regional breakdowns from the National Indian Gaming Commission, the federal agency that oversees tribal gambling, California and northern Nevada accounted for the most Indian gambling revenue in 2005: $7 billion.
Southeastern and northeastern states accounted for $5.5 billion; upper Midwest and Plains states for $3.9 billion; southwestern states for $2.5 billion; the Pacific Northwest and Alaska for $1.8 billion; and Texas, Kansas and Oklahoma for $1.7 billion.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
National Indian Gaming Association: http://www.indiangaming.org/
Nevada Gaming Control Board: http://gaming.nv.gov/.
Hamhock
7/14/2006, 08:47 AM
They may suck, but they brought in $22 billion dollars total last year across the country. Vegas took in half that.
where does that money come from?
my perception is that vegas is a vacation. people come from all across the world to spend vacation money.
indian casinos are a leech on the local economy. many of the people who go to the indian casinos are spending their bread/milk money, not vacation money. this can't be good for the economy.
IB4OU2
7/14/2006, 08:51 AM
where does that money come from?
my perception is that vegas is a vacation. people come from all across the world to spend vacation money.
indian casinos are a leech on the local economy. many of the people who go to the indian casinos are spending their bread/milk money, not vacation money. this can't be good for the economy.
They don't take food stamps anymore do they?
indian casinos are a leech on the local economy. many of the people who go to the indian casinos are spending their bread/milk money, not vacation money. this can't be good for the economy.
Do you have any data to support that point? I guess you'd rather see federal tax dollars continue to subsidize the tribes than see them be self-supporting.
The Cherokees for instance were forced off their homelands for gold, then many lost their new homes to oil and development, the government will probably find a way to shut down or appropriate the casinos now.
ultimatesooner1
7/14/2006, 09:00 AM
vegas will probably start a campaign in Congress to get these banned once they are done with online poker/sports betting
Vaevictis
7/14/2006, 09:05 AM
Pretty amazing when you factor-in the demographic characteristics of people who frequent Indian casinos versus the people who play in Vegas and Atlantic City.
Volume, my friend. It's all about volume. :)
EDIT: Mathematically speaking, it's to the Casino's advantage to have many poor players making many bets if there's enough volume. So, really, if they can get enough volume, it's actually better for the casino to have a poorer demographic. For more information, see "Gambler's Ruin Chain".
Hamhock
7/14/2006, 09:36 AM
Do you have any data to support that point? I guess you'd rather see federal tax dollars continue to subsidize the tribes than see them be self-supporting.
The Cherokees for instance were forced off their homelands for gold, then many lost their new homes to oil and development, the government will probably find a way to shut down or appropriate the casinos now.
No data. So you disagree? Most of the $$ spent at local casinos disposable income?
Why, exactly, do federal tax dollars need to subsidize the tribes?
Vaevictis
7/14/2006, 09:44 AM
Hey, look at it this way. It's good for the economy of the Tribes, eh? :)
JohnnyMack
7/14/2006, 09:48 AM
They're all gross.
1stTimeCaller
7/14/2006, 09:50 AM
I'm waiting for the **** fights at the Indian Casinos. I'll go to watch those but not for the slot machines.
are the casinos still exempt to all taxes?
If so, then they are a leech on the economy. Taking everyones money, but giving nothing back to the state for improving the area around them.
mdklatt
7/14/2006, 10:16 AM
are the casinos still exempt to all taxes?
If so, then they are a leech on the economy. Taking everyones money, but giving nothing back to the state for improving the area around them.
According to the roadside signs, the I-35 improvements in southern Oklahoma are being funded by the Chickasaw Nation. Of course, the improvements benefit their casino so I don't know how altruistic their motives are.
Nobody forces them to come down and spend their money, apparently there must be some degree of entertainment value for the customer. The tribes are plowing the cash back into tribal services, housing, and development, not to mention the jobs the casinos have created. I wasn't saying anyone was forcing them. I was saying that you're more likely to win in a Vegas casino than any Indian casino. People have blinders on about how tight things are at Indian casinos as far as winnging anything goes.
Gandalf_The_Grey
7/14/2006, 11:27 AM
I would say that people that don't have enough money to be gambling are usually just irresponsible in nature. There is so many crackheads in a Casino you couldn't even imagine how much. My theory is that those type of people wouldn't be saving there money. I would say that paying the state 50-70 million..which will now increase because the Riverwind Casino and the Choctaw's are attempting to make all of their Casino's super ones like the one in Durant. The thing about Durant is that they are only in phase 2 of their growth plan. The Chickasha's are supposed to be building one just south of Durant..if that happens, things could get interesting. But yeah another thing the State and Government don't tell you is how much money they are getting off these new jobs and taxes related to that. The Indian machines I believe aren't as good at paying out as Vegas..but they are a whole lot better than the ones in Shreveport from what I hear. At the one in Durant, we get lots of people driving up from Lousianna that say that.
Boarder
7/14/2006, 11:29 AM
I'm waiting for the **** fights at the Indian Casinos. I'll go to watch those but not for the slot machines.
It took me a second to figure out what you were saying. The other choices made the statement pretty funny.
Boarder
7/14/2006, 11:31 AM
I would say that people that don't have enough money to be gambling are usually just irresponsible in nature. There is so many crackheads in a Casino you couldn't even imagine how much. My theory is that those type of people wouldn't be saving there money. I would say that paying the state 50-70 million..which will now increase because the Riverwind Casino and the Choctaw's are attempting to make all of their Casino's super ones like the one in Durant. The thing about Durant is that they are only in phase 2 of their growth plan. The Chickasha's are supposed to be building one just south of Durant..if that happens, things could get interesting. But yeah another thing the State and Government don't tell you is how much money they are getting off these new jobs and taxes related to that. The Indian machines I believe aren't as good at paying out as Vegas..but they are a whole lot better than the ones in Shreveport from what I hear. At the one in Durant, we get lots of people driving up from Lousianna that say that.
SHreveport has actual craps and actual blackjack, so for non-slot players like me, the Indian Casinos don't cut it.
I don't have a problem with them, though. The Riverwind should be really cool. I noticed on the screen this morning they have Pat Benatar, Jewel, The Temptations, and some others I can't remember coming in concert already.
1stTimeCaller
7/14/2006, 11:36 AM
SHreveport has actual craps and actual blackjack, so for non-slot players like me, the Indian Casinos don't cut it.
I don't have a problem with them, though. The Riverwind should be really cool. I noticed on the screen this morning they have Pat Benatar, Jewel, The Temptations, and some others I can't remember coming in concert already.
when is that badboy pasposed to open up?
Gandalf_The_Grey
7/14/2006, 11:36 AM
We have actual blackjack..I mean is there variations on how you can deal 21 ;)
1stTimeCaller
7/14/2006, 11:38 AM
That pay to play crap isn't real blackjack. That makes the hous's vig huge.
Boarder
7/14/2006, 11:39 AM
There's a concert on Aug 26th, so I'd guess it will be open by then. They're gonna really have to get on the ball, though, the way it looks on the outside.
Real Blackjack doesn't make you pay .50 to play a hand.
I'm not that big on blackjack anyway.
Gandalf_The_Grey
7/14/2006, 11:39 AM
Durant has poker tables and is even going to have a poker tournament which will gain the winner entry into the WSOP
Boarder
7/14/2006, 11:40 AM
I've heard the Durant one is really nice.
I wasn't saying anyone was forcing them. I was saying that you're more likely to win in a Vegas casino than any Indian casino. People have blinders on about how tight things are at Indian casinos as far as winnging anything goes.
No doubt that the Indian casinos are tighter than Vegas, and they do suck relative to the variey and quality of games, chance of winning, and atmosphere in Vegas. I agree 100% on those points.
are the casinos still exempt to all taxes?
If so, then they are a leech on the economy. Taking everyones money, but giving nothing back to the state for improving the area around them.
Bridge help
By World's Editorial Writers
7/8/2006
Cherokees plan to help repair state structures
The Cherokee Indian tribe will give nearly $5 million to repair eight bridges in six counties and further plans to spend another $51 million on state roads in the next five years, according to Chief Chad Smith.
Gary Ridley, director of the Oklahoma Department of Transportation, said the working relationship with the Cherokees began with the tribe's help in rebuilding Interstate 40 after an Arkansas River bridge collapse killed 14 people in 2002.
The immediate infusion will help with emergency work on bridges, but the $51 million in the future will enable the state to obtain more federal funds. Ridley talked of a $6 billion multi-year road-building program.
The Cherokee action is proper; other tribes, such as the Muscogee (Creek) Nation are building roads, supplying money for education and health and otherwise spending the income from state-sanctioned gaming in productive ways.
Some estimates have put the collective income of Oklahoma's tribes at $3 billion annually, compared to the state's annual budget of about $7 billion. The tribes are cooperating, using their status as sovereign nations to both report income and report expenditures.
The cooperation between state government and the tribes stands to be one of the exciting developments in Oklahoma.
Those damn stingy Injuns, hoarding all that money.:rolleyes:
so they are repairing roads and bridges near their lands? how nice of them.... :rolleyes:
mdklatt
7/14/2006, 11:48 AM
Those damn stingy Injuns, hoarding all that money.:rolleyes:
As soon as they fix those bridges they'll want them back. :D
1stTimeCaller
7/14/2006, 11:53 AM
so they are repairing roads and bridges near their lands? how nice of them.... :rolleyes:
that begs the question: Why doesn't the damned State fix the roads and bridges that are theirs? They sure get a lot of money from the gas pumps to do just that. It's sad that the Tribes have to fix the roads and bridges.
Why, exactly, do federal tax dollars need to subsidize the tribes?
You can't be serious. I can't decide if some of you are racist, uninformed, or both.
1stTimeCaller
7/14/2006, 12:02 PM
You can't be serious. I can't decide if some of you are racist, uninformed, or both.
In case anyone is wondering or has ever wondered about me, I'm 3/4 retarded.
mdklatt
7/14/2006, 12:03 PM
that begs the question: Why doesn't the damned State fix the roads and bridges that are theirs? They sure get a lot of money from the gas pumps to do just that.
You're making that false assumption that the state government doesn't succs.
1stTimeCaller
7/14/2006, 12:06 PM
You're making that false assumption that the state government doesn't succs.
heh. I understand that but why criticize a corporation, individual or any other entity that has to step in and do the State's job for them?
heh. I understand that but why criticize a corporation, individual or any other entity that has to step in and do the State's job for them?
Because they're racist, uninformed, or both.:D
I noticed on the screen this morning they have Pat Benatar, Jewel, The Temptations, and some others I can't remember coming in concert already. 8/25 - The Temptations @ Riverwind Casino
8/26 - Pat Benatar & Neil Giraldo @ Riverwind Casino
9/1 - Jewel @ Riverwind Casino
9/15 - Creedence Clearwater Revisited @ Riverwind Casino
9/23 - The Commodores @ Riverwind Casino
LilSooner
7/14/2006, 12:20 PM
Just a little FYI we are going to see Jewel 9/1 if we are here.
That pay to play crap isn't real blackjack. That makes the hous's vig huge.
Do you mean vag?
Either way......out.
Gandalf_The_Grey
7/14/2006, 12:23 PM
The Federal Government helped Wal Mart pave all of the roads AND Wal Mart's parking lot for Bentonville Arkansas..paid several mllions of dollars for that one in fact..so now let's criticize the Tribes for doing something good for business and its people on their own dime.
Okla-homey
7/14/2006, 12:48 PM
are the casinos still exempt to all taxes?
If so, then they are a leech on the economy. Taking everyones money, but giving nothing back to the state for improving the area around them.
Puh-leeeze. The tribes are sovereign entities by federal law.
No one expects Vegas to send checks out to all the states from which gamblers come to lose money. Why should the tribes do so? Afterall, no settlers are being ambushed and dragged into the tribal casinos to play the slots...although that would make a cool movie concept. Circle the wagons, the Chickasaw pit bosses are coming. Be sure to save the last bullet for yourself. You don't want to be taken alive! :D
ultimatesooner1
7/14/2006, 02:16 PM
Just a little FYI we are going to see Jewel 9/1 if we are here.
that is the day before the season opener, I'm sure gf will want to go to that one
boomersooner28
7/14/2006, 02:54 PM
I didn't have time to read all of the posts in this thread, but I have just a second and I NEED to put in my 2 cents.
THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA IS FUGGING RETARDED! PERIOD!!!! Stay with me.
They are allowing the Indian Casinos to rape the public. The State wants a piece of the pie, which is fine. BUT, the way the state has it set-up right now with the tribe's is RETARDED and the state isn't making near as much money as it thought it would and the tribe's are making a killing by raping the public.
For instance, Blackjack (and other table games) is allowed now, but ONLY as a "Class II" game, not as a class III game like Vegas...the difference is that it HAS to be funded/banked by a "players pool", not the houses money. So, when you walk into a tribal casino in Oklahoma, all that money in the rack of the blackjack table is supposed to be from a players pool and is not supposed to be profit for the casinos. THAT is why there is a .50 ante on every hand. THAT is supposed to be the ONLY thing the casino gets to keep LESS 10% (.05) to the State of Oklahoma.....yes thats right, OK only gets $.05 of that ante and heres the kicker. The players pool money is supposed to go back to the players via giveaways/drawings/free tournaments whatever, its just supposed to go back...BUT IT ISNT. They use that money to pay the salaries of all table games employees and use it to buy styrofoam cups, or however they want although by state law, they arent supposed to be able too...but then again OUR STATE IS RETARDED and they are allowing it to happen!!!! So, they will let you play blackjack, but they crush your odds of winning by forcing you to pay an ante that the state sees very little of. By the way, I know a casino up here in Tulsa that makes over $100,000.00 a day just off of the ante! Yes, wow.
So, how do you fix the problem. SIMPLE. The state of Louisianna doesn't allow gambling on-shore either. BUT, there is 1 casino on-shore in New Orleans and thats Harras. The State of Louisianna charges Harras $175,000.00 per day to operate!!! The state is happy and Harras makes theres so they are happy. The State of oklahoma needs to implement the same strategy. The tribes in oklahoma are only allowed class 2 games at the moment but the class 2 laws are so blurry that tribes are coming up with variations of games and playing all the games any way, almost just like vegas, only you have to pay a FRIGGING ANTE. I know of 2 casinos up here in Tulsa that have craps...VEGAS STYLE CRAPS...no kidding. There are some cards on the table, but are just for show to make it "class II". So, why doesnt the state just go full fledge class 3 and charge each tribe a per diem every day to operate? It's that simple. The state would make more money and it would alleviate the frickin ante that crushes the odds of anybody beating the house in blackjack and other table games.
Ok, I think I am done.
1stTimeCaller
7/14/2006, 02:59 PM
making 10% for doing absolutly nothing seems fair to me.
By the way, I know a casino up here in Tulsa that makes over $100,000.00 a day just off of the ante! Yes, wow.
That's 10,000 per day that the State makes for doing nothing.
Nothing. At. all.
Hamhock
7/14/2006, 03:22 PM
making 10% for doing absolutly nothing seems fair to me.
That's 10,000 per day that the State makes for doing nothing.
Nothing. At. all.
I bet this would make the company that pays you a salary feel better. :texan:
boomersooner28
7/14/2006, 03:22 PM
Yes, I see your point....BUT, the state is allowing this raping of the oklahoma citizens by putting crack in front of them (blackjack and other games) and charging them double to smoke it (pay an ante). That is my point.
I think that the answer is Oklahoma has traditionally been bass-ackwards about everything else, so why should this be any different?
Okla-homey
7/14/2006, 03:34 PM
I think that the answer is Oklahoma has traditionally been bass-ackwards about everything else, so why should this be any different?
I'm still miffed about having to buy my Guinness hot in a flippin' liquor store. Thanks Brad Henry for not fixing that. Call out the National Guard or something. You succ.
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