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OklahomaTuba
7/10/2006, 08:30 AM
I don't support the troops

By CHAS CHIODO

Special to the Sun
July 08. 2006 6:01AM

I'm a military combat veteran and critic of our government's invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, and I don't support the troops. I'll protest in the streets to end the war, and when the troops come home, I'll do what I can to see that they get the benefits and treatment they need and deserve. That's my contribution to the troops.

Many people "oppose the war but support the troops." Rotten war, brave soldiers. I don't buy this at all. Although little Johnny or Judy might have once been that nice kid next door, he or she may now be engaged in massacres and atrocities.

"The troops" are waging war against a civilian population, making little or no attempt to distinguish between "insurgents" and "collateral" innocents in the vicinity. When faced with frequent sniping, mines, ambushes and treachery by supposed local "allies," even the best-trained occupation armies soon become brutal, sadistic, cynical and demoralized.

Torture and atrocities happen in all wars, on both sides. None are right, but America has to accept the fact that when little Johnny or Judy enlists in one of the branches of service, he becomes a hired killer.

People are convinced that however evil, wicked and misguided the president might have been to launch the war, the ordinary soldiers who are actually waging it are overwhelmingly dedicated and honorable. The average person thinks that "99.9 percent of the troops" are as pure as driven snow, our "best and brightest." I don't buy either of those jingoistic platitudes. When I was in the military, it was composed of many different kinds of people, including a fair share of losers, brutes and bloodthirsty thugs.

I believe that every one of the U.S. government's military and "civil" agents in Iraq are engaged in "a war of unprovoked aggression," and therefore all bear some guilt for participating in an evil enterprise. I am not suggesting that the man who drives a supply truck is as guilty as the man who shoots a baby at point blank range, but all of our forces are guilty to some degree.

Doing wrong is doing wrong, be it in Gainesville or Iraq. Bush told the soldiers to go, and they chose to obey. When the Nazis at Nuremberg claimed they were "only following orders," they received no mercy, nor did they deserve any. Perhaps the enlisted men and women who merely tagged along are less culpable than Bush, but nobody involved in this huge criminal undertaking is entitled to a clean bill of moral health.

The longer U.S. forces stay in Iraq, the more brutalized and undisciplined they will become, and the more hated they will be. The vast majority of the global community sees the U.S. as the bad guys, and rightly so. We have no moral reason for being in Iraq and the world knows it.

The problem in Iraq and Afghanistan is not that the U.S. forces have a few bad apples. The barrel itself is rotten. To remain morally upright, people need to steer clear of voluntary association with criminals and acting as their mercenaries.

You always hear that the troops signed a contract and must obey orders. Not if they deem such orders to be illegal or beyond moral bounds. They can always refuse to obey, go to jail, go AWOL or move to another country. These are better decisions than killing innocent civilians for corporate greed.

The American military machine has killed and tortured millions of innocent people and will continue to do so until made to stop. I call on my fellow vets to heed Thoreau's advice that we use our lives to "stop the machine" and thereby expiate the legacy of pain, suffering and death we participated in.http://gainesville.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060708/EDITORIALS0101/60708001/1097/editorials

Amazing that bull**** like this can find its way into a newsource.

Oh well, at least these leftist halfwits are being honest about their feelings now, no matter how ****ed up they are in the head and how much hate they have for our men and women in uniform.

SoonerInKCMO
7/10/2006, 08:34 AM
"Leftist halfwit"? Why do you hate veterans?

OklahomaTuba
7/10/2006, 08:37 AM
"Leftist halfwit"? Why do you hate veterans?
Yes, leftist halfwit. Obviously you didn't read it. :rolleyes:

SoonerInKCMO
7/10/2006, 08:39 AM
Did so.

Hatfield
7/10/2006, 08:39 AM
why do you hate veterans tuba?

Hatfield
7/10/2006, 08:42 AM
and for the record some of what he says sounds plausible (the rising frustrations as "allies" continue trying to kill you) while other parts sounds like a disgruntled vet.

OklahomaTuba
7/10/2006, 08:43 AM
why do you hate veterans tuba?
No hate for vets, just stupid people like this guy and 99.9% of the halfwits who believe the bull**** he spews.

OklahomaTuba
7/10/2006, 08:45 AM
and for the record some of what he says sounds plausible (the rising frustrations as "allies" continue trying to kill you) while other parts sounds like a disgruntled vet.

Some, heh.

Always rely on ol' Hat to defend the nutcases.

SoonerInKCMO
7/10/2006, 08:46 AM
Some, heh.

Always rely on oh Hat to defend the nutcases.

When has he ever defended you? :confused:


;)

OklahomaTuba
7/10/2006, 08:47 AM
When has he ever defended you? :confused:


;)

:D

Hatfield
7/10/2006, 08:47 AM
understanding someone's view and defending that view are 2 different things. Sad your black and white world will never understand that.

OklahomaTuba
7/10/2006, 08:50 AM
understanding someone's view and defending that view are 2 different things. Sad your black and white world will never understand that.

Oh, it understands the difference very well.

Thing is, it also understands your trends of "understanding" people like this jackass, to a degree that is nearly sickening.

Hatfield
7/10/2006, 08:52 AM
please explain.

using this thread as an example of my sickening understanding.

tia

etouffee
7/10/2006, 08:54 AM
Hmm, I don't see much "understanding" coming from the left when it comes to their fellow citizens who don't share their political views. If you don't agree with the "understanding" left, you're called stupid or evil. Or both.

OklahomaTuba
7/10/2006, 08:56 AM
Hmm, I don't see much "understanding" coming from the left when it comes to their fellow citizens who don't share their political views. If you don't agree with the "understanding" left, you're called stupid or evil. Or both.

Heh.

Well, Hat has to argue something on this. He can't just come out and say he actually believes what this guy said, cause no doubt he probably does believe some of it.

Hatfield
7/10/2006, 09:09 AM
Heh.

Well, Hat has to argue something on this. He can't just come out and say he actually believes what this guy said, cause no doubt he probably does believe some of it.

if you aren't too busy looking for pictures would you care to back up what you said previously about how my "understanding" is "sickening"

tia

and for the plain engrish impaired I already said some of what he says makes sense the rest doesn't. I can definitely see how frustrations would mount when you and your fellow servicemen are being killed by the very people you are trying to protect. Especially when you are 18-19, 20, etc.

i also agree that the armed forces is like any other community filled with great people, as well as thugs and lowlifes who have no other avenue.

that in no way insinuates i believe wholesale what that guy has to say though.

etouffee
7/10/2006, 09:11 AM
ok, maybe, but you have to be really careful when you say "some" of what a person says "makes sense", especially when the person is clearly an imbecile or a liar, such as the author of the quote above. for example, "some" of the things Hitler and Stalin said "made sense", but it's not a good idea to go around saying so, because people have no way of knowing which parts you're including in "some".

JohnnyMack
7/10/2006, 09:11 AM
if you aren't too busy looking for pictures

:les:BUSES UNDERWATER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

usmc-sooner
7/10/2006, 09:15 AM
what's funny is Hatfield posted this same sort of stuff and now he getting on Tuba for doing it.

Ok sorry to interupt your bickering, touch gloves and resume your fighting.

Hatfield
7/10/2006, 09:26 AM
ok, maybe, but you have to be really careful when you say "some" of what a person says "makes sense", especially when the person is clearly an imbecile or a liar, such as the author of the quote above. for example, "some" of the things Hitler and Stalin said "made sense", but it's not a good idea to go around saying so, because people have no way of knowing which parts you're including in "some".

that is why in my initial "some" comment i gave an example.

crawfish
7/10/2006, 09:30 AM
I, for one, am glad a newspaper printed this. It's easy to forget that such despicable people exist in America.

For his sake, I hope he's lying about his name and address, because I see much abuse coming in his future.

OklahomaTuba
7/10/2006, 09:49 AM
if you aren't too busy looking for pictures would you care to back up what you said previously about how my "understanding" is "sickening"


Well, if you re-read what I posted, I clearly said that the trend of wanting to understand halfwits like this is sickening. This is especially true when compared to your attempts to "understand" people like Ann Coulter.

YWIA.

leavingthezoo
7/10/2006, 09:56 AM
well, i'll admit it. i long ago quit trying to understand tuba when i realised it was going to involve a lobotomy. :D

OCUDad
7/10/2006, 10:00 AM
Hmm, I don't see much "understanding" coming from the left when it comes to their fellow citizens who don't share their political views. If you don't agree with the "understanding" left, you're called stupid or evil. Or both.If you substitute the word "right" for the word "left" in your statement, does it become any less true? :rolleyes: There's enough room in the Nutcase Hotel for all sorts of folks.

etouffee
7/10/2006, 10:06 AM
If you substitute the word "right" for the word "left" in your statement, does it become any less true? :rolleyes: There's enough room in the Nutcase Hotel for all sorts of folks.No, it doesn't become any less true. Still, it's not the right who constantly reminds everyone how "understanding" and "tolerant" and "inclusive" they are. The right has little use for people who don't think exactly like they do (see also Tuba, Dean), but at least they're pretty up front about that.

leavingthezoo
7/10/2006, 10:18 AM
i just think it's interesting the people most prone to accuse everyone else of being against the military have called out more veterans than anybody else.

etouffee
7/10/2006, 10:23 AM
i just think it's interesting the people most prone to accuse everyone else of being against the military have called out more veterans than anybody else.... while the side constantly accused of being against the military has called out more active duty personnel than anyone else. What's your point, exactly?

leavingthezoo
7/10/2006, 10:29 AM
... that there's a fly in the soup?

NormanPride
7/10/2006, 11:00 AM
... that there's a fly in the soup?

Why do you hate flies?

Scott D
7/10/2006, 11:03 AM
who knew that Tuba's name was Chas Chiodo.