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View Full Version : Good Morning...Rebs run it up the middle at Gettysburg



Okla-homey
7/3/2006, 06:48 AM
July 3, 1863 Confederate forces attack the center of the Federal line at Gettysburg, but fail to break it.

143 years ago on this day in 1863, after two desperate days of slugging it out in the July heat in southern Pennsylvania, Robert E. Lee sends the equivalent of three divisions of infantry up the middle in a last ditch attempt to crack the Federal line at Gettysburg.

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6158/gmap69la.gif (http://imageshack.us)

As you read two mornings ago, the battle began inauspiciously enough. Lee had hoped to bring the war north out of Virginia in order to take the pressure off his fellow Virginians as her farmers worked to raise their 1863 crops which were vital to both feed the army and the civilian population. Lee also hoped to expose the Northern civilian population to the war's horrors and thus bring about an armistice.

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/6742/gallo14gk.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Scene from a 1988 reenactment

Day One as you'll recall ended with US forces fixed in a long fishook shaped defensive position anchored by high ground at both ends.

Day Two saw intense fighting on both ends as Lee tried to gain an advantage on either end and thus roll-up the Federal line with powerful flank attacks.

Day Three dawned hot and muggy with the Federals still firmly dug-in and unmoved. Lee reasoned that since they were clearly well manned on both ends as he had found on Day Two, the Federals had to be weak in the center and so he planned to order a frontal assault at that point.

Lee cobbled together an assault force built around George Pickett's division of Virginians who had been in reserve the previous two days and thus relatively fresh. The men were drawn mostly from General "Pete" Longstreet's corps.

http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/8721/gpicket7vz.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Major General George Pickett. He was never the same after Gettysburg. Before Day Three dawned he was itching for the fight and the chance for glory. Afterwards, speaking of his commander Bobby Lee, he was said to say, "That old man threw away my division."

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/7823/scharge4rm.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
As you can see from this graphic, they stepped-off from a wide front and were planned to converge at a common apex on a copse of trees at the precise center of the US line.

The attack was preceded by the most intense artillery bombardment in the the history of the western hemisphere. Unfortunately for Lee's gray-clad legions, much of the fire was poorly sighted and flew over the heads of the Federal defenders.

Just past noon, the artillery stopped and Lee's last best hope stepped off from its assembly area in the woods approximately one mile over open fields opposite the Union center. They marched at ordinary quick-time in close order with flags flying and bands playing. Veterans who watched never forgot the awesome sight as the grim-faced Rebs came on into the teeth of the Federal defense. Its been commonly called "Pickett's Charge" but it wasn't a charge in the usual sense. These men didn't run or jog at double time. They simply marched to glory with their muskets at shoulder arms.

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/8624/gthirteen0zh.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
What they saw as they trudged west towards the Federals. The clump or "copse of trees" was the landmark all Rebel eyes were focused on as the point of convergence.

As they marched, they were under the fire of accurate Federal artillery and lost thousands to the deadly shot and shell. They had to break ranks to climb farm fences, but carefully reformed under fire on the other side to continue the attack. As they closed within 500 yards, the Federal rifled-musketry opened and thousands more fell in agony. Finally, within a couple hundred yards of making contact, they broke ranks and began to run at the Federals while whooping the "Rebel Yell"

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/214/glpr0096pb.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Lead elements of the Confederate assault force made it to the Federal line and an intense hand-to-hand struggle ensued. Lee's "Johnies" almost pulled-it off, but the Federal's held and Lee had nothing left to reinforce the limited breakthroughs his lead elements had achieved. Thus, the attack withered and was repulsed.

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/2226/gmpjps0549ky.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Brig. General Lewis Armistead led one of Pickett's lead brigades. He was shot down just as he reached a Federal artillery battery positioned on the US line. Armistead's father had been in command at Ft McHenry during the British bombardment during the War of 1812 under "the Star-Spangled Banner." It is worth noting that in this picture, Armistead is depicted backed by several Confederate battle flags. Ordinarily, each of those flags would have been accompanied by at least 600 men. As you can see, the regiments to which those flags belonged had been whittled away to very few during the mile-long assault under deadly fire almost every step of the way.

Afterwards, Lee approached Pickett who seemed disoriented having observed the carnage and the shocked survivors streaming back to the relative safety of their pre-assault assembly areas. Lee, worried about a Federal counter-attack is said to have told Pickett, "General, look to your division" to which Pickett replied, "General, I have no division."

Lee's commanders spent the evening gathering up the tired and bloody Confederate forces which he aimed south and back across western Maryland to their base in Virginia. Some moderen historians have been critical of the failure of the Federal command to order a counter-attack to cut-off Lee's retreat -- but those nattering nabobs simply don't understand that the Federals were wore slap out and completely incapable of prosecuting a coordinated attack against Lee who was retiring in good order.

The war would go on two more years and the proud and brave Confederates would soldier on but the South's best hope for victory had bled to death on the farmfields and rocky hillsides of Gettysburg. America would thus eventually be re-united in the nineteenth century and poised to be a powerful force for justice and right in the coming world wars of the twentieth.

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/6817/g03955977229tb.gif (http://imageshack.us)
My favorite book on "The Charge." It contains a minute-by-minute chronology carefully reconstructed from original accounts of surviving participants and defenders.

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4494/insane7zo0kj.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

jk the sooner fan
7/3/2006, 07:44 AM
and history does its best to show that "blind loyalty" is not always a good thing

StoopTroup
7/3/2006, 07:49 AM
Very bloody battle.

It's amazing that our Country made it through all of that.

Okla-homey
7/3/2006, 08:41 AM
and history does its best to show that "blind loyalty" is not always a good thing

Yes, but consider this. Those boys had to go. Remember, they served in regiments made up of men from their home districts and served among boyhood friends, cousins, brothers, and uncles. If they balked or acted cowardly in order to survive, they'd have to return home someday and everyone would know what happened. They would therefore be marked men for life. The alternative for some of those who couldn't do what they were asked to do was never to return home and instead head out west. I think a lot of those headed to texass.;)

jk the sooner fan
7/3/2006, 08:54 AM
Yes, but consider this. Those boys had to go. Remember, they served in regiments made up of men from their home districts and served among boyhood friends, cousins, brothers, and uncles. If they balked or acted cowardly in order to survive, they'd have to return home someday and everyone would know what happened. They would therefore be marked men for life. The alternative for some of those who couldn't do what they were asked to do was never to return home and instead head out west. I think a lot of those headed to texass.;)

i was referring to the generals on the battlefield that day

Pickett excluded, didnt Longstreet et al, advise Lee that the charge was a bad idea?

i doubt the common foot soldier thought much about questioning the sanity of the charge, or the chances of success

Okla-homey
7/3/2006, 09:06 AM
i was referring to the generals on the battlefield that day

Pickett excluded, didnt Longstreet et al, advise Lee that the charge was a bad idea?

i doubt the common foot soldier thought much about questioning the sanity of the charge, or the chances of success

Longstreet indeed wrote afterwards in his memoirs that he advised Lee against the assault. He was pilloried for stating so by Confederate apologists for years afterward. By 1875 or so, Lee had risen to almost divine stature in the hearts and minds of Southerners and the notion that anyone would be so callous as to question one of "Marse Robert's" tactical decisions was heresy.

FWIW, there is plenty of original material from both sides which evidences soldiers' contemporary beliefs that certain orders and strategies were foolish or wasteful of life or both. They followed orders despite their beliefs generally for the reason I stated.

There is an interesting little tid-bit from Foote's narrative history that tells us as the men were preparing to step-off, a rabbit ran out of the woodline and bolted across the field ahead of them then zipped off to the left and out of view. One of Pickett's men was heard to exclaim: "Run, run old hare! if I was an old hare I'd run too."

SicEmBaylor
7/3/2006, 06:26 PM
Very bloody battle.

It's amazing that our Country made it through all of that.

It didn't. :mad:

SicEmBaylor
7/3/2006, 06:27 PM
Longstreet indeed wrote afterwards in his memoirs that he advised Lee against the assault. He was pilloried for stating so by Confederate apologists for years afterward. By 1875 or so, Lee had risen to almost divine stature in the hearts and minds of Southerners and the notion that anyone would be so callous as to question one of "Marse Robert's" tactical decisions was heresy.

FWIW, there is plenty of original material from both sides which evidences soldiers' contemporary beliefs that certain orders and strategies were foolish or wasteful of life or both. They followed orders despite their beliefs generally for the reason I stated.

There is an interesting little tid-bit from Foote's narrative history that tells us as the men were preparing to step-off, a rabbit ran out of the woodline and bolted across the field ahead of them then zipped off to the left and out of view. One of Pickett's men was heard to exclaim: "Run, run old hare! if I was an old hare I'd run too."

It's worth pointing out that apparently Lee was not in the best of health at Gettysburg. He may very possibly have been suffering from a mild heart attack as well.

TUSooner
7/3/2006, 09:26 PM
I read a story about a reenactment by actual surviors, what few remained in about 1930-something. The difference: When the Rebs reached the Yankee line, they were greeted with tearful embraces instead of shot and bayonets. Truly touching.

SicEmBaylor
7/3/2006, 09:38 PM
I read a story about a reenactment by actual surviors, what few remained in about 1930-something. The difference: When the Rebs reached the Yankee line, they were greeted with tearful embraces instead of shot and bayonets. Truly touching.

There's some black and white video of that moment. Pretty cool to see. A lot of them were wearing their old uniforms. There were similar reunions prior to that, but the one you're referring to was the very last one I believe. Not too many WONA vets left after that. The last one died in 1955 I believe.

Okla-homey
7/3/2006, 10:10 PM
Here's a pic of the old Pickett's Charge vets reenacting it in 1913 at the 50th anniversary reunion. Most of these guy are in their seventies.

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/6671/gettysburg51ym.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

As you can see, the Confederate vets had become loyal Americans and believed the issue of states rights was settled once and for all

http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/8636/gettyreunion4gz.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Chowtime at the 50th anniversary reunion.

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/1820/gettysburg50threunion2em.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

TUSooner
7/3/2006, 10:33 PM
Yeah, 1913 sounds a bit better than 1930-something. My bad.

SicEmBaylor
7/3/2006, 10:55 PM
Here's a pic of the old Pickett's Charge vets reenacting it in 1913 at the 50th anniversary reunion. Most of these guy are in their seventies.

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/6671/gettysburg51ym.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

As you can see, the Confederate vets had become loyal Americans and believed the issue of states rights was settled once and for all

http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/8636/gettyreunion4gz.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Chowtime at the 50th anniversary reunion.

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/1820/gettysburg50threunion2em.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I don't think the issue of states' rights was settled once and for all, and I'd dispute most of the vets felt that way. I think what they accepted is the idea that southern independence had been settled once and for all.

Saying that "states rights" was settled once and for all by the war reduces the nation to merely 50 administrative districts of a centralized government. If that's the case, we should just erase state lines as we know them and rewdraw the nation into 50 sections as equal in population as possible.

It burns my *** to hear that the states abandoned every constitutional right that was reserved to them simply because the southern states lost their war for independence. It's like saying that because we forced you at the point of bayonet to stay partnered in union then we forever strip EVERY state, whether they seceeded or not, of every sovereign right previously reserved to the states.

Absolutely burns my ***.

SicEmBaylor
7/3/2006, 10:59 PM
Yeah, 1913 sounds a bit better than 1930-something. My bad.
I don't know if the 30's reunions were what you were referring to or not but they still had a few reunions well into the late 20's and early 30's. I don't know after that...

My great-great grandfather died in 1923. Having survived the war as an officer in the crack 15th Alabama he returned home and moved his family to Ft. Worth, Tx to avoid some of the harsher aspects of reconstruction in the deep south.

If any of you drive I-35 through Ft. Worth regularly you may notice the exit sign for "Berry Street" it's named after my great-great grandfather.

In his older years he moved to Southeastern OK where he died. Supposedly he never did reconcile himself with the North. He remained loyal to the south and the south only for the remainder of his years.

SicEmBaylor
7/3/2006, 11:02 PM
Not to turn this into a discussion of my family, but one interesting thing...

From that side of my family my great-great grandfather plus 2 of his brothers fought for the Confederacy (I have many more on other lines). The other brother was in the 12th Alabama I believe (may have been the 14th).

But what's interesting is they had a 4th brother named Sylvester who fought for the Union. To this day Sylvester's line is totally shunned by the rest of the family. They are NOT invited to family reunions or otherwise welcome or considered a part of the family.

XingTheRubicon
7/3/2006, 11:35 PM
Visiting Gettysburg, especially Little Round Top and Big Round Top was breath taking. There are still bare spots on Little Round Top where the Alabama boys made their charge on day 2.

Ironicly, Alabama retroactively claimed the 1863 National Championship despite suffering the loss.

SicEmBaylor
7/3/2006, 11:44 PM
Visiting Gettysburg, especially Little Round Top and Big Round Top was breath taking. There are still bare spots on Little Round Top where the Alabama boys made their charge on day 2.

Ironicly, Alabama retroactively claimed the 1863 National Championship despite suffering the loss.

Hah!
Spek.

Octavian
7/4/2006, 12:15 AM
It burns my *** to hear that the states abandoned every constitutional right that was reserved to them simply because the southern states lost their war for independence.

Dont make me fark Katherine Harris.

SicEmBaylor
7/4/2006, 12:37 AM
Dont make me fark Katherine Harris.
Hahaha, touche.

But, I wouldn't use that fiasco to prove/disprove anything constitutionally or to make a point about modern conservatism/liberalism. Just an absolute mess.

It looks like her political career may soon be over with her disasterous senatorial campaign.

olevetonahill
7/4/2006, 12:40 AM
Not to turn this into a discussion of my family, but one interesting thing...

From that side of my family my great-great grandfather plus 2 of his brothers fought for the Confederacy (I have many more on other lines). The other brother was in the 12th Alabama I believe (may have been the 14th).

But what's interesting is they had a 4th brother named Sylvester who fought for the Union. To this day Sylvester's line is totally shunned by the rest of the family. They are NOT invited to family reunions or otherwise welcome or considered a part of the family.
What does a Dayum Yankee expect ?

SicEmBaylor
7/4/2006, 12:52 AM
To counter Homey's Battle Hymn of the Republic (which I actually do like though I loathe to admit it).

We are a band of brothers and native to the soil
Fighting for our Liberty, With treasure, blood and toil
And when our rights were threatened, the cry rose near and far
Hurrah for the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star!

Hurrah!
Hurrah!
For Southern rights, hurrah!
Hurrah for the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star.

As long as the Union was faithful to her trust
Like friends and brethren, kind were we, and just
But now, when Northern treachery attempts our rights to mar
We hoist on high the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star.

Hurrah!
Hurrah!
For Southern rights, hurrah!
Hurrah for the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star.

First gallant South Carolina nobly made the stand
Then came Alabama and took her by the hand
Next, quickly Mississippi, Georgia, and Florida
All raised on high the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star.

Hurrah!
Hurrah!
For Southern rights, hurrah!
Hurrah for the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star.

Ye men of valor gather round the banner of the right
Texas and fair Louisiana join us in the fight
Davis, our loved President, and Stephens statesmen are
Now rally round the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star.

Hurrah!
Hurrah!
For Southern rights, hurrah!
Hurrah for the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star.

And here's to brave Virginia, the Old Dominion State.
With the young Confederacy at length has linked her fate.
Impelled by her example, now other States prepare
To hoist on high the Bonnie Blue flag that bears a single star.

Hurrah!
Hurrah!
For Southern rights, hurrah!
Hurrah for the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star.

Then here's to our Confederacy, strong we are and brave,
Like patriots of old we'll fight, our heritage to save.
And rather than submit to shame, to die we would prefer
So cheer for the Bonnie Blue flag that bears a single star.

Hurrah!
Hurrah!
For Southern rights, hurrah!
Hurrah for the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star.

Then cheer, boys, cheer, raise a joyous shout
For Arkansas and North Carolina now have both gone out;
And let another rousing cheer for Tennessee be given
The single star of the Bonnie Blue Flag has grown to be eleven!

SoonerBorn68
7/4/2006, 01:07 AM
Hey sic'em, if you like the Bonny Blue Flag, you'll love this one (http://www.geocities.com/soonerborn91/wavs/johnny_rebel-good_old_rebel.mp3). ;)

SoonerBorn68
7/4/2006, 01:14 AM
...and here's The Bonny Blue Flag (http://www.geocities.com/soonerborn91/wavs/bobby_horton-bonny_blue_flag.mp3) for those who haven't heard it.

SCOUT
7/4/2006, 01:31 AM
My family came over from Ireland. About half during the famine and the other half in the late 20's (Irish history folks may be interested in some of the circumstances :)). Most of them settled in upstate New York and a few in Canada.

My wife's family has lived in texas since the late 1800's. They LOVE to point out my Northern roots vs. the fact they have been in the Dallas area since before it was called Dallas.

Last year we were doing some geneology and it turns out that a significant portion of their male ancestors fought on the UNION side of the war. While it wasn't significant to me, it sent them into a serious introspective fit.

This southern born family has a closer tie to the Union troops than their "yankee" in-law. I know it sounds trivial, but it gives me a great deal of satisfaction.:D

SicEmBaylor
7/4/2006, 01:32 AM
...and here's The Bonny Blue Flag (http://www.geocities.com/soonerborn91/wavs/bobby_horton-bonny_blue_flag.mp3) for those who haven't heard it.
I'm d/l the song now.

And that's the Bobby Horton version which is great. Bobby Horton puts out GREAT WONA music. I've only bought his southern stuff, but he's put out a couple of CDs of union music as well.

When I was a kid though all I ever listened to was that stuff, and Bonnie Blue Flag was always my favorite.

SicEmBaylor
7/4/2006, 01:37 AM
Hey sic'em, if you like the Bonny Blue Flag, you'll love this one (http://www.geocities.com/soonerborn91/wavs/johnny_rebel-good_old_rebel.mp3). ;)
Oh! I've heard that one too. Its been yeaaars though since I heard it. Not a bad version at all! Spek to you!

Octavian
7/4/2006, 01:38 AM
Hahaha, touche.

But, I wouldn't use that fiasco to prove/disprove anything constitutionally or to make a point about modern conservatism/liberalism. Just an absolute mess.

It looks like her political career may soon be over with her disasterous senatorial campaign.

;)

just makin a funny...

I'm still curious as to how a perfect "these United States" would function in a 21st century environment.

A confederacy seems terribly inefficient and inadequate for a nation of our size (even for the mid-19th century size of America).

Octavian
7/4/2006, 01:41 AM
My family came over from Ireland. About half during the famine and the other half in the late 20's (Irish history folks may be interested in some of the circumstances :)). Most of them settled in upstate New York and a few in Canada.

My wife's family has lived in texas since the late 1800's. They LOVE to point out my Northern roots vs. the fact they have been in the Dallas area since before it was called Dallas.

Last year we were doing some geneology and it turns out that a significant portion of their male ancestors fought on the UNION side of the war. While it wasn't significant to me, it sent them into a serious introspective fit.

This southern born family has a closer tie to the Union troops than their "yankee" in-law. I know it sounds trivial, but it gives me a great deal of satisfaction.:D

that'd be a great King of the Hill episode

Octavian
7/4/2006, 01:42 AM
SB68, are animated avatars allowed again?

SCOUT
7/4/2006, 01:43 AM
that'd be a great King of the Hill episode
Heh, I should call Mike Judge. :D

SoonerBorn68
7/4/2006, 01:50 AM
SB68, are animated avatars allowed again?


Shhhh, don't say nothin'. I just tried it & it worked. :D

Octavian
7/4/2006, 01:52 AM
Shhhh, don't say nothin'. I just tried it & it worked. :D

secret's safe w/ me :D

SoonerBorn68
7/4/2006, 01:54 AM
Hey sic'em...here's a few more:

A rockin' version of Battle Hymn Of The Republic (http://www.geocities.com/soonerborn91/wavs/mitch_miller-battle_hymn.mp3)

A heavy metal version of When Johnny Comes Marching Home (http://www.geocities.com/soonerborn91/wavs/ultimathule-when_johnny_comes_marching_home.mp3) (the last few seconds cut off & I haven't been able to find a complete copy since my computer crashed a few years back)

...and Johnny Horton's Battle Of Bull Run (http://www.geocities.com/soonerborn91/wavs/johnny_horton-battle_of_bull_run.mp3)

I've been collecting these types of songs for years. I especially like the fife and drum cadences' & historical music.

SicEmBaylor
7/4/2006, 02:59 AM
Hey sic'em...here's a few more:

A rockin' version of Battle Hymn Of The Republic (http://www.geocities.com/soonerborn91/wavs/mitch_miller-battle_hymn.mp3)

A heavy metal version of When Johnny Comes Marching Home (http://www.geocities.com/soonerborn91/wavs/ultimathule-when_johnny_comes_marching_home.mp3) (the last few seconds cut off & I haven't been able to find a complete copy since my computer crashed a few years back)

...and Johnny Horton's Battle Of Bull Run (http://www.geocities.com/soonerborn91/wavs/johnny_horton-battle_of_bull_run.mp3)

I've been collecting these types of songs for years. I especially like the fife and drum cadences' & historical music.

I think you have just become my new favorite poster. Big thanks! I'll spek you again when I can!

Check out Bobby Horton's "Riding a Raid" and his dad's "Johnny Reb." I've got them both on CD, but just haven't gotten around to converting them to .mp3.

Oh and "Stonewall Jackson's Way" too.