I predict this guy will be the newest Peacenik hero [Archive]

Okla-homey

6/23/2006, 08:22 AM

...of course, he won't get out to speak much after he's convicted at a general court martial and sentenced to the US Disciplinary Barracks at Fort Leavenworth for a dozen years or so.

This knucklehead is an artillery officer. He's also a lieutenant which means he was college educated and commissioned AFTER the war started. His decorations indicate he's already been over at least once so he knows the rules. By his age and ribbon rack, I expect he was prior service enlisted too.

Man, I'd love to be on the panel (aka "jury" in a civilian criminal trial.)

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/06/22/060623015345.itst2a0w.html

US army officer refuses deployment to IraqJun 22 9:53 PM US/Eastern

A young US army officer could face court martial after refusing to obey orders to prepare for deployment to Iraq, claiming the war is illegal, his supporters said.

Lieutenant Ehren Watada, 28, was confined to his base of Fort Lewis, in the northwest state of Washington, and restricted from communications with anyone outside but his lawyer, according to people in Watada's support committee.

They said he was the first US military officer to refuse orders to go to Iraq.

Watada's mother Carolyn Ho called his refusal an "act of patriotism."

"As an officer, he believes it is his duty to disobey illegal orders," she told AFP, adding that they had argued over his decision and that he was influenced by questions about the US government's reasons for invading Iraq.

jk the sooner fan

6/23/2006, 08:24 AM

if he's smart, he'll ask for a judge only trial....

Okla-homey

6/23/2006, 09:25 AM

In fact, I think I culd prosecute him. Here's the fantasy trial transcript:

Me: Lt, please tell the court why you believe your orders to Iraq are illegal?

Defendant: Well, I just think we went in because of a lie.

Me: Do you consider the president your commander-in-chief?

Defendant: yes

Me: Did the President, through his subordinate commanders order you to Iraq?

Defendant: yes

Me: Do you believe the Congress who authorized the war and pays for it is the official and highest law making body in this country?

Defendant: yes

Me: Are you aware of any time at which the Supreme Court or any other federal court has ruled the laws allowing prosecution of the war to be unconstitutional?

Defendant: no

Me: So, please tell us precisely which federal statute or article under the Uniform Code of Military Justice you believe has been broken?

Defendant: Well, I can't really. Its just that I don't think its a legal war.

Me: The prosecution rests.

SoonerInKCMO

6/23/2006, 09:27 AM

Heh. His momma is a 'Ho'.

Hatfield

6/23/2006, 09:33 AM

but homey where in your transcript did you ask him if he could handle the truth? or ARE WE CLEAR!!!!!!!!! crystal.or something

rebmus

6/23/2006, 09:35 AM

stupid stupid stupid.

i guess he only wanted to be in the military and draw the benefits as long as he doens't have to fight in a war...

whether or not he agrees with the war, he has no business in the military anymore. good riddance to him.

TheHumanAlphabet

6/23/2006, 09:56 AM

I hope he enjoys Kansas and not working afterwards...Perhaps Canada will take him.

Taxman71

6/23/2006, 10:23 AM

I hope he enjoys Kansas and not working afterwards...Perhaps Canada will take him.

Yeah right. Al Gore will snatch this guy up on his shoulders and parade him around San Francisco as symbol of rebellion against the evil government that he so badly wanted to control.

Okla-homey

6/23/2006, 10:26 AM

Yeah right. Al Gore will snatch this guy up on his shoulders and parade him around San Francisco as symbol of rebellion against the evil government that he so badly wanted to control.

not til he's released from "federal pound you in the a-- prison"

BoomerJack

6/23/2006, 10:26 AM

I admire him for standing up for what he thinks is right.

1stTimeCaller

6/23/2006, 10:28 AM

I admire him for standing up for what he thinks is right.

seriously?

rebmus

6/23/2006, 10:29 AM

I admire him for standing up for what he thinks is right.
:eek:

Okla-homey

6/23/2006, 10:34 AM

I admire him for standing up for what he thinks is right.

Obvious pot-stirring is frowned upon here. You gotta be discrete like Lid.;)

BoomerJack

6/23/2006, 10:37 AM

seriously?

Yes, seriously. I don't particulary agree with his actions and don't think I would do what he's doing. But from what I've read about the matter so far, he feels very strongly about it and seems willing to meet the consequences.

jk the sooner fan

6/23/2006, 10:40 AM

must.....resist........comment...

rebmus

6/23/2006, 10:40 AM

he feels very strongly about it and seems willing to meet the consequences.
i've got no problem with that at all.

i just don't want to hear any whining from him or anyone else when he faces those consequences.

1stTimeCaller

6/23/2006, 10:41 AM

Well, I'm from the school that stupidity is never to be admired.

If he felt that strongly about it why join ROTC/OCS when the 'illegal war' had already started?

usmc-sooner

6/23/2006, 10:46 AM

you don't join the military to decide which orders your going to follow. If you do then your stupid.

OklahomaTuba

6/23/2006, 10:57 AM

I admire him for standing up for what he thinks is right.

:rolleyes:

Ehren Watada, American Hero

Just when I am convinced that the entire United States Military is full of spineless sheep that mindlessly obey everything they are ordered to do, a brave young Army Lieutenant by the name of Ehren Watada comes along and gives me hope. In an act of unprecedented courage, Watada publicly announced that he will refuse to join his Ft. Lewis Stryker Brigade on their impending deployment to Iraq this month, denouncing the “wholesale slaughter” of the Iraqi people in an “illegal and immoral war” waged for oil, and accusing the U.S. military of war crimes.

What a fine example of the caliber of men we have on the progressive left. Any other soldier would have to be tortured for days, perhaps even weeks before they’d have the courage to say the things Watada said willingly and proudly. They wrenched James Stockdale’s shoulders out of their sockets, shattered his leg, broke his back, and beat him relentlessly for SEVEN LONG YEARS, yet he still didn’t have the testicular fortitude to stand up against the illegal and immoral war in Vietnam. The weasel even slashed his own head with a piece of rusty metal and beat his face bloody with a stool to AVOID going before TV cameras and denouncing the imperialist aggressors so our troops could come home. Thankfully, John Kerry was there to do it for him.

If we had more men like brave Watada in our armed forces, this horrible war would be over in about five minutes. But he’ll probably go to jail for his courage. That coward Stockdale, on the other hand, got a goddamn Medal of Honor.

BoomerJack

6/23/2006, 11:08 AM

Tuba: Just out of curiosity, who are you quoting?

Hoosier Dynasty

6/23/2006, 11:08 AM

Watada's mother Carolyn Ho called his refusal an "act of patriotism."

She should be thanking God that she lives in the U.S. in this day and age b/c if this were anywhere else, especially fifty-years ago, they would have took that sad sack out back behind the building and put about ten holes in his worthless rear.

Okla-homey

6/23/2006, 11:20 AM

:rolleyes:

I met Admiral James Bond Stockdale long before he went off the deep end and ran for VP with Ross Perot. He was a stud, probably one of the bravest d00ds I ever met.

TheHumanAlphabet

6/23/2006, 11:32 AM

I admire him for standing up for what he thinks is right.

So you admire lack of character and a failing to keep your word/oath and failing to abide by a contract?

TheHumanAlphabet

6/23/2006, 11:34 AM

he feels very strongly about it and seems willing to meet the consequences.

Big effing deal! Sometimes character means you do something you feel strongly against because you stood up and took an oath to do so!

BoomerJack

6/23/2006, 12:26 PM

From usmc-sooner

"you don't join the military to decide which orders your going to follow."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't military personnel obligated or entitled disobey orders that they, in good faith, believe to be illegal or that call for commission of illegal acts?

================================================== ==

From Human Alphabet

"So you admire lack of character and a failing to keep your word/oath and failing to abide by a contract?"

Of course not. I believe that by refusing to perform what is, in good faith, believed to be an illegal act is an act of character. I should also add that it is my understanding that a contract or agreement that calls for one of the parties to commit an illegal act is unenforceable either in whole or in part.

1stTimeCaller

6/23/2006, 12:27 PM

please read Homey's post about wishing he was the prosecutor.

TheHumanAlphabet

6/23/2006, 12:58 PM

Thanks 1TC, said well. Homey has the arguement down pat! You must prove or show the order was illegal. Not the case in this insubordinate officer's case. I think the court's martial will be very short and punishment swift.

usmc-sooner

6/23/2006, 01:11 PM

Vaevictis

6/23/2006, 01:44 PM

So you admire lack of character and a failing to keep your word/oath and failing to abide by a contract?

Facts not in evidence, IMO. If he honestly thinks that the war is illegal -- and that as a result all orders issued in relation to the war are illegal -- then in his mind, it's his duty to refuse.

Now, he may be wrong -- in fact, I think he probably is, given that Congress authorized the action and legitimate commanders are issuing the orders -- but being wrong is not the same thing as being dishonorable and being an oathbreaker.

Look at it this way -- AFAIK, the guy didn't desert. He could have waited for some kind of leave (or refused to report) and just taken off. The guy stuck around and is facing trial. That, at least, suggests that we should give him the benefit of the doubt wrt his state of mind.

SoonerInKCMO

6/23/2006, 01:45 PM

wrong again you have to obey all lawful orders. Illegal acts are not lawful orders.
Getting deployed is not an illegal act. It's basically expected when you volunteer.

Wouldn't it be an illegal act if the entire war were illegal?

1stTimeCaller

6/23/2006, 01:47 PM

None of the three branches have deemed this war 'illegal'. Getting deployed is simply getting deployed, what is illegal about that?

OklahomaTuba

6/23/2006, 01:47 PM

Heh, gotta love the Illegal war bullshiat.

I guess its expected to hear this from the halfwits who think the war is for oil.

Vaevictis

6/23/2006, 01:50 PM

Getting deployed is simply getting deployed, what is illegal about that?

His theory is probably that if you're getting deployed to a combat zone in an illegal war, then you could only possibly be getting deployed for the purposes of executing illegal orders, right?

(again, not agreeing that the orders are illegal, just saying that that is probably his state of mind)

SoonerInKCMO

6/23/2006, 01:51 PM

None of the three branches have deemed this war 'illegal'. Getting deployed is simply getting deployed, what is illegal about that?

I didn't say it was illegal - and I don't think it is - but this dude seems to think it is. If he thinks it is then that would be his basis for considering his deployment orders to be an illegal act.

SoonerInKCMO

6/23/2006, 01:53 PM

Heh, gotta love the Illegal war bullshiat.

I guess its expected to hear this from the halfwits who think the war is for oil.

:confused: Who are you talking about?

1stTimeCaller

6/23/2006, 01:53 PM

so you two are saying that the guy is stupid? I think that has been said earlier in this thread.

SoonerInKCMO

6/23/2006, 01:55 PM

so you two are saying that the guy is stupid? I think that has been said earlier in this thread.

It wouldn't be the SO if we weren't being repetitive. :)

1stTimeCaller

6/23/2006, 02:09 PM

It wouldn't be the SO if we weren't being repetitive. :)

:D

crawfish

6/23/2006, 02:12 PM

I think collecting taxes is illegal, so I'm not paying.

Nyah.

TheHumanAlphabet

6/23/2006, 02:29 PM

I didn't say it was illegal - and I don't think it is - but this dude seems to think it is. If he thinks it is then that would be his basis for considering his deployment orders to be an illegal act.

The guy probably didn't want to be deployed to Iraq. If he got orders to Korea, Germany or Hawaii, I doubt if he would be trying this thin legal theory to get out of the mobilization and the service.

TheHumanAlphabet

6/23/2006, 02:30 PM

I think collecting taxes is illegal, so I'm not paying.

Nyah.

Another thin legal theory that has yet to be successful! ;)

Jerk

6/23/2006, 02:43 PM

Stockdale:

http://www.medalofhonor.com/JamesStockdale.htm

Only a gawdammed hippie magget infested pinko communist could call this guy a "coward"

Vaevictis

6/23/2006, 02:49 PM

Only a gawdammed hippie magget infested pinko communist could call this guy a "coward"

Heh. I agree with the sentiment, even if I don't necessarily agree with all of the adjectives you used. :)

usmc-sooner

6/23/2006, 02:51 PM

I'm with crawfish, from now I'm going with my heart. If it's right for me then it shall be right.

no more paying taxes
no more going the speed limit
no more paying for food
I'm going to talk on my cell phones at movies

crawfish

6/23/2006, 03:47 PM

I'm going to talk on my cell phones at movies

You're a complete bastard. :mad:

Okla-homey

6/23/2006, 04:01 PM

I didn't say it was illegal - and I don't think it is - but this dude seems to think it is. If he thinks it is then that would be his basis for considering his deployment orders to be an illegal act.

Unfortunately for him, in this country, the legislative branch generally decides what's legal and what ain't. Then, judges get to interpret the statutes the legislative branch passes -- not some shavetail punk. If he persists with the notion that its an illegal war, he's a goner. I bet his counsel is telling him that as we speak.

I think his best bet would have been to plead conscientious objector status. That isn't easy either, but a darn sight better to claim C.O. than set yourself up as some knucklehead who thinks he gets to be supreme omnipotent arbiter of the legality of US national security policy.

As an aside, you just know they're going to make an example out of this guy. If he doesn't get crushed and shredded at his court-martial, it will send a very loud message to the troopies that all you have to do to get out of a deployment is say you think its illegal. Preposterous!

I will regain a smidge of respect for him if he sticks to his contention and goes to jail without making a scene.

C&CDean

6/23/2006, 04:06 PM

This guy has no argument. None. Zippo. His argument is even more retarded than people who sue tobacco companies and claim they didn't know sucking down 3 packs a day for 40 years might give them lung cancer.

"I didn't know it would hurt me." I signed up, volunteered, took the education, etc. but now I think it's illegal." Blow me ya coward.

I hope he gets whatever the maximum sentence is.

jk the sooner fan

6/23/2006, 04:19 PM

Blow me ya coward.

and there, in a nutshell is the premise for this entire case

there's a huge difference between orders handed down from the company commander.....orders that have been misintepreted or are outside the posted rules of engagement (i.e. Lt Calle), and congress authorizing a war with their financial support

you can say the sky is green and say "its green because i feel it in my heart"

that doesnt mean its really green though

he's a coward, period, end of story

Hoosier Dynasty

6/23/2006, 05:13 PM

I think collecting taxes is illegal, so I'm not paying.

Nyah.

Now you sir, are a true patriot. And to think that our forefathers declared started a nice Boston Tea party in protest of what, 3-4% tax? LMAO!! Try 40% today, including sales, investments, property, death, etc...

Shamrock

6/24/2006, 01:53 AM

This knucklehead is an artillery officer. He's also a lieutenant which means he was college educated and commissioned AFTER the war started. His decorations indicate he's already been over at least once so he knows the rules. By his age and ribbon rack, I expect he was prior service enlisted too.

Top row: ARCOMM (Army Commendation Medal) - NDSM (National Defense Service Medal

Bottom row isn't real clear, but I don't see a SWASM (SW Asia Service Medal).

Last ribbon on the bottom right is the standard Army Service Ribbon. If he would have been prior service enlisted, there would be a Good Conduct ribbon.

He's been overseas, but not to a combat zone. Interview (http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=10397)

I hope he gets to break rocks for a long LONG time ....

Okla-homey

6/24/2006, 06:49 AM

Top row: ARCOMM (Army Commendation Medal) - NDSM (National Defense Service Medal

Bottom row isn't real clear, but I don't see a SWASM (SW Asia Service Medal).

Last ribbon on the bottom right is the standard Army Service Ribbon. If he would have been prior service enlisted, there would be a Good Conduct ribbon.

He's been overseas, but not to a combat zone. Interview (http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=10397)

I hope he gets to break rocks for a long LONG time ....

He is wearing his GWOT medal -- the one pretty much everyone got for being in the service and after 12/01. Perhaps he should take it off and throw it at the White House like John Kerry did with his VN medals (or didn't...he kinda flipped a bit on that.)

Shamrock

6/26/2006, 12:20 AM

He is wearing his GWOT medal -- the one pretty much everyone got for being in the service and after 12/01. Perhaps he should take it off and throw it at the White House like John Kerry did with his VN medals (or didn't...he kinda flipped a bit on that.)
They'll strip him of everything while breaking rocks at Leavenworth.

I'd love to have a crack at that jerk .......

OklahomaTuba

6/26/2006, 08:13 AM

He is wearing his GWOT medal -- the one pretty much everyone got for being in the service and after 12/01. Perhaps he should take it off and throw it at the White House like John Kerry did with his VN medals (or didn't...he kinda flipped a bit on that.)

What a dumbarse.

Thank GAWD that halfwit isn't trying to "nuance" this country to victory in the GWOT.