Is this the wrong place to discuss this?

[soonerhubs]

I'm in a Health class in college called Human Sexuality. This weeks topic has been homosexuality, and in the online forum for this class, all I hear is the religion is promoting hate and misunderstanding towards homosexuals.

It really angered me and I posted some rebuttals which got no response. I just don't see how religions and their principles that teach love and acceptance are considered "evil" if they teach that homosexuality is wrong.

Are church's suppose to compromise their principles so everyone can feel good about themselves?

Should churches start encouraging adultery and fornication as well?

It just blows my mind.

What are your thoughts?

[olevetonahill]

I'm in a Health class in college called Human Sexuality. This weeks topic has been homosexuality, and in the online forum for this class, all I hear is the religion is promoting hate and misunderstanding towards homosexuals.

It really angered me and I posted some rebuttals which got no response. I just don't see how religions and their principles that teach love and acceptance are considered "evil" if they teach that homosexuality is wrong.

Are church's suppose to compromise their principles so everyone can feel good about themselves?

Should churches start encouraging adultery and fornication as well?

It just blows my mind.

What are your thoughts?
Isn't that an Oxymoron ?
A church preaches love and acceptance . But Homos Is wrong ?
Hell I aint got any use for queers . But how can I say I love you But not mean it towards Homos ? :confused:

[SicEmBaylor]

I'm in a Health class in college called Human Sexuality. This weeks topic has been homosexuality, and in the online forum for this class, all I hear is the religion is promoting hate and misunderstanding towards homosexuals.

It really angered me and I posted some rebuttals which got no response. I just don't see how religions and their principles that teach love and acceptance are considered "evil" if they teach that homosexuality is wrong.

Are church's suppose to compromise their principles so everyone can feel good about themselves?

Should churches start encouraging adultery and fornication as well?

It just blows my mind.

What are your thoughts?


It's not enough to simply be different you have to force everyone to accept your differences. Well, the fact is that while your choice is your choice not everybody has to or should agree with that choice. There's a lot of things I do that I'm sure a lot of people disagree with, but I don't expect them to like or accept my choices simply because they are mine.

[olevetonahill]

It's not enough to simply be different you have to force everyone to accept your differences. Well, the fact is that while your choice is your choice not everybody has to or should agree with that choice. There's a lot of things I do that I'm sure a lot of people disagree with, but I don't expect them to like or accept my choices simply because they are mine.
Yep see I didnt agree with you passing on the Punnany , just cause it was skanky

[olevetonahill]

I'm in a Health class in college called Human Sexuality. This weeks topic has been homosexuality, and in the online forum for this class, all I hear is the religion is promoting hate and misunderstanding towards homosexuals.

It really angered me and I posted some rebuttals which got no response. I just don't see how religions and their principles that teach love and acceptance are considered "evil" if they teach that homosexuality is wrong.

Are church's suppose to compromise their principles so everyone can feel good about themselves?

Should churches start encouraging adultery and fornication as well?

It just blows my mind.

What are your thoughts?
Are they not :compromising their principles " If they say Love and accept . but condemn those ? ( insert homos , any race , ) any thing or anyone who doesn't do as WE do ?

[Blue]

Are they not :compromising their principles " If they say Love and accept . but condemn those ? ( insert homos , any race , ) any thing or anyone who doesn't do as WE do ?

Love the sinner, hate the sin.

[Flagstaffsooner]

Isn't that an Oxymoron ?
A church preaches love and acceptance . But Homos Is wrong ?
Hell I aint got any use for queers . But how can I say I love you butt not mean it towards Homos ? :confused:
I don't like religion or queers so I will pass on this one.

[walkoffsooner]

.They have mental problems.No diffrent than accepting someone with downs syndrome.

[Blue]

I'll answer this one for Jesus...



Oh wait, no I won't.

And I wouldn't ask these jokers for spiritual advice.

[Jimminy Crimson]

I still don't see how a dude would ever pass on poonanny. :mack:

[Melo]

In all seriousness... I dont have much experience with this.

My church teaches love and acceptance of everyone. It teaches that life is about living a life that may not always be what is considered right. It also teaches that to have a successful life, you do as many good things as you can, and make the best life that you can.

No one can be perfect. Who am I to say who you can and cannot love? Just because I dont agree with it doesnt mean it is wrong, or vice versa.

I dont think churches should 'compromise' their teaches, but go about teaching things a different way. In the world, where there are SO many different ways of life, its kind of stupid, IMO, to have one specific way of life that is ok.

[Blue]

In the world, where there are SO many different ways of life, its kind of stupid, IMO, to have one specific way of life that is ok.

The one way...

Matthew chap 8 verses 18-22

Now when Jesus saw a crowd around him, He gave orders to depart to the other side of the sea.
Then a scribe came and said to him, "Teacher, I will follow You wherever you go."
Jesus said to him, "The foxes have holes and the birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head."
Another of the disciples said to him,"Lord, permit me first to go and bury my father."
But Jesus said to him, "Follow Me, and allow the dead to bury their own dead."

[Melo]

The one way...

Matthew chap 8 verses 18-22

Now when Jesus saw a crowd around him, He gave orders to depart to the other side of the sea.
Then a scribe came and said to him, "Teacher, I will follow You wherever you go."
Jesus said to him, "The foxes have holes and the birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head."
Another of the disciples said to him,"Lord, permit me first to go and bury my father."
But Jesus said to him, "Follow Me, and allow the dead to bury their own dead."

Yes, I suppose that makes a lot of sense. But if youre taught to be accepting of everyone, that doesnt really fit in with homosexuals.

[Blue]

Love the sinner, hate the sin.

right?

[StoopTroup]

Love and acceptance?

I thought it was Love and Forgiveness.

Ask that your sins be forgiven...once your forgiven...try to sin no more...

Not that anyone of us could sin no more...but we are asked to try harder and to spread not only The Word, but Love and Forgiveness.

The way some folks were driving tonight while we were out for dinner...well...I was forced to take a few deep breaths and use anger management techniques to remember to Love the fact that they didn't hit us and forgive their near miss. :D

[oumartin]

I honestly don't believe anyone would chose to be homosexual. is it not the church responsibility to accept these people and teach them the word and possibly change this persons way of life? its probably not as easy as other sins but i'd like to think they could repent, change and move forward. and if not change at least work toward changing their sexuality.
i don't have a problem with someone being homosexual I just don't like being force fed to accept them and the amount of money wasted debating their lifestyle.

[Okla-homey]

Are church's suppose to compromise their principles so everyone can feel good about themselves?



You sir, have correctly described the US Episcopal Church.;)

[BOOMERBRADLEY]

I think its wrong in every situation. (homosexuality)

Of course I am biased due to my religious upbringing, but I believe there is a man and a woman for a reason and I really do hope everyone can find happiness I just don't think a homosexual can ever be truly happy and content with their lives.

[Big Red Ron]

Wasn't Dalmer "Born" a homosexual and a canabal? An extreme example, to be sure but people like him make me question whether or not it's "free will" or God placed them here as an example of where to draw the line. I mean if a sin is a sin then which did he go to Hell for?

Become Agnostic and let the chips fall where they may. My head hurts.

[Okla-homey]

Evidently, some people are "born" pedophiles. Some are "born" kleptomaniacs. Some are "born" arsonists. Some are "born" with a particular susceptibility to alcohol &/or drug addiction. Doesn't mean they get a pass IMHO. It means they need help.

[Flagstaffsooner]

I'm in a Health class in college called Human Sexuality. This weeks topic has been homosexuality, and in the online forum for this class, all I hear is the religion is promoting hate and misunderstanding towards homosexuals.

It really angered me and I posted some rebuttals which got no response. I just don't see how religions and their principles that teach love and acceptance are considered "evil" if they teach that homosexuality is wrong.

Are church's suppose to compromise their principles so everyone can feel good about themselves?

Should churches start encouraging adultery and fornication as well?

It just blows my mind.

What are your thoughts?Weber has sexuality?;)

[mdklatt]

What are your thoughts?

Everybody needs to mind their own ****ing business--pun intended. If you think homosexuality is a sin, don't **** other guys. Problem solved.

[Big Red Ron]

Everybody needs to mind their own ****ing business--pun intended. If you think homosexuality is a sin, don't **** other guys. Problem solved.And raise your kids to see it as you see it. Don't be indifferent.

[MamaMia]

I believe that its a sin to be gay, but I do have 2 gay guy friends. They know how I feel about that subject, and they have no problem with it because we dont base our friendship on that. We are mature and accepting enough to agree to disagree on alot of things. I have no right to judge others. Thats Gods job. The bible also says that one sin in Gods eyes is no worse than another, so their sin[s] are no worse than my own.

[OCUDad]

And raise your kids to think for themselves. Don't be indifferent.My preference, no offense.

[Big Red Ron]

My preference, no offense.Whatever floats your boat. Kids have no basis for rational thinking without guidance. Hope yours don't end up drug addicted, drop outs or homosexual.

[OCUDad]

Mine are 27 and 24, well-adjusted, independent thinkers who are contributing to society. Thanks for your concern.

[Cam]

Whatever floats your boat. Kids have no basis for rational thinking without guidance. Hope yours don't end up drug addicted, drop outs or homosexual.
So hypothetically speaking, if your kids end up gay, it's your fault? :confused:

[TUSooner]

***I have no right to judge others. Thats Gods job. The bible also says that one sin in Gods eyes is no worse than another, so their sin[s] are no worse than my own.
That, if anything, is the "test" for Chistians - not to judge. I can judge the act as wrong, but I can't condemn the person for the inclination itself, if it's more or less programmed. But tolerance is not enough for some homosexuals; they demand validation or approval, as if sodomy were a sacrament in their own narrow religion.

But I'd rather stand before the Lord and hear "You forgave as you were forgiven; well done faithful servant," instead of "you really ripped those homos good in My name; now let's talk about all the things YOU did to discredit Me!"

[mdklatt]

The bible also says that one sin in Gods eyes is no worse than another, so their sin[s] are no worse than my own.

That just can't be. You must be reading the wrong bible. What I've learned from reading the South Oval is that my own personal sins are forgiveable as long as I make sure other people don't sin.

[mdklatt]

So hypothetically speaking, if your kids end up gay, it's your fault? :confused:


[Sen. Jim Inhofe]Yes.[/Sen. Jim Inhofe]

[Big Red Ron]

So hypothetically speaking, if your kids end up gay, it's your fault? :confused:Since I believe it's a choice (except for a few seriously screwed up genetic mistakes), Yes!

[mdklatt]

they demand validation or approval

You mean like boycotting Target until they hang "Merry Christmas" banners?

[mdklatt]

Since I believe it's a choice (exept for a few seriously screwed up genetic mistakes), Yes!

So God creates some gay people, but not all of them...which ones are we allowed to scream "You're going to burn in Hell!" at?

[Big Red Ron]

So God creates some gay people, but not all of them...which ones are we allowed to scream "You're going to burn in Hell!" at?You must have me confused with someone else. As stated earlier in this thread I'm agnostic (bordering on athiest) but buttphuckin is still wrong.

[Cam]

Since I believe it's a choice (exept for a few seriously screwed up genetic mistakes), Yes!
That's interesting.

[mdklatt]

You must have me confused with someone else.

I guess so.

[Big Red Ron]

Mine are 27 and 24, well-adjusted, independent thinkers who are contributing to society. Thanks for your concern.I'm 33 and have an eleven year old. Lets just say public schools and pop culture have changed their opinion on these topics since your kids and I grew up.

[yermom]

That, if anything, is the "test" for Chistians - not to judge. I can judge the act as wrong, but I can't condemn the person for the inclination itself, if it's more or less programmed. But tolerance is not enough for some homosexuals; they demand validation or approval, as if sodomy were a sacrament in their own narrow religion.

But I'd rather stand before the Lord and hear "You forgave as you were forgiven; well done faithful servant," instead of "you really ripped those homos good in My name; now let's talk about all the things YOU did to discredit Me!"

maybe your idea of tolerance differs from mine...

it's one thing when it's a religion denouncing homos, you can find another one. they are a dime a dozen around here... but you can't really do that with your government

[Big Red Ron]

Since I believe it's a choice (except for a few seriously screwed up genetic mistakes), Yes!An example of a "serious genetic mistake." :D

http://www.pi.net/upload_mm/9/f/c/hillaryclinton-30428.onlineBild.jpg

[Penguin]

Why do people get so worked up about this?


Everybody sins. Forgive them and move on.

[GottaHavePride]

Homosexuals just want the same legal tax breaks, power of attorney, inheitance rights, and so on that heterosexual people get. They can go on all they want, but in the end (heh) that's what they're looking for: legal status. The problem comes when people argue against them on basis of religion, which shouldn't affect how the government treats its citizens.

If the government denies homosexuals the legal status accorded to basicaly every heterosexual person in this country on the basis of a religious argument, well, that kind of contradicts the first amendment:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

[Big Red Ron]

I believe the initial purpose of the gov.'s tax incentives and breaks were to try and strengthen families. Stronger families help societys like our's in the long run (I'm not saying this is right or wrong) but the homosexuals cannot procreate and on that basis shouldn't be afforded the same "rights" as heterosexuals. As I have said before there at least two tpes of homosexuals, those that are genetic mishaps and those that choose that lifestyle. Based on that fact alone, you cannot afford them an special treatment until you can seperate the wheat from the chaf.

[yermom]

Homosexuals just want the same legal tax breaks, power of attorney, inheitance rights, and so on that heterosexual people get. They can go on all they want, but in the end (heh) that's what they're looking for: legal status. The problem comes when people argue against them on basis of religion, which shouldn't affect how the government treats its citizens.

If the government denies homosexuals the legal status accorded to basicaly every heterosexual person in this country on the basis of a religious argument, well, that kind of contradicts the first amendment:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

where my views on this go are kinda weird at this point... why should you have to be married at this point? or even romantically involved.

if i want to choose someone to be guardians of my children, have power of attorney, etc... why do i have to be married to them?


(btw i'm saying this as a straight man in a relationship that really doesn't see the point of marriage ;) )

[Big Red Ron]

http://www.pi.net/upload_mm/9/f/c/hillaryclinton-30428.onlineBild.jpg

[yermom]

I believe the initial purpose of the gov.'s tax incentives and breaks were to try and strengthen families. Stronger families help societys like our's in the long run (I'm not saying this is right or wrong) but the homosexuals cannot procreate and on that basis shouldn't be afforded the same "rights" as heterosexuals. As I have said before there at least two tpes of homosexuals, those that are genetic mishaps and those that choose that lifestyle. Based on that fact alone, you cannot afford them an special treatment until you can seperate the wheat from the chaf.

well, but they could adopt... it's not like there are a shortage of kids out there without suitable parents

not that i really understand why Adam and Steve want to play mommy and daddy. i don't quite get it, but i don't really get the whole gay sex thing at all. it's not really my choice though.

[Big Red Ron]

well, but they could adopt... it's not like there are a shortage of kids out there without suitable parents

not that i really understand why Adam and Steve want to play mommy and daddy. i don't quite get it, but i don't really get the whole gay sex thing at all. it's not really my choice though.You're so close to being right. But the suitable parent thingy makes me think twice.:confused:

[royalfan5]

This thread reminds me of what I think the two biggest problems with people these days. Too many people worry about other folk's business, and too many people don't want to take responsibility for their actions. Pretty much every problem my family has had(and there have been plenty), stems from those two things, worrying about what somebody else is doing or getting, and trying to shift the blame for your problems to others. It's easier for people to blame other folks for their problems, than to hold themselves accountable, until as a society we focus on taking care of our own **** first, issues like this will fester. I have found that me deciding to take care of my business, has solved way more things than blaming society. Plus, I have found my problems stem from me screwing up, not gays, republicans, or democrats, et al. Also, folks need to accept that fact that society isn't always going to be a reflection of you and your beliefs, so GADOCADWI. I really don't have a great conclusion for this rant, but I felt like I should toss that out there.

[GhostOfJAS]

Okay, time to come out (pun intended) of lurk mode after a year or so. Among my gay friends and I, the whole "hate the sin, love the sinner" thing is a big joke. The people who say that are generally the same people who spread lies about the "gay agenda" of trying to recruit and abuse children, wanting to destroy American values and all of western civilization, and whatever other BS. They say we're all diseased, have 1000s of partners, live to only 40, and all other sorts of ridiculous crap.

So to get to the point of the original post - it's not that your religion finds homosexuality to be a sin that any of us object to. As others have said, if it's a sin to you, don't do it. But the fact is we have to deal with people (especially around here) who try to make our lives more difficult by demonizing us, and the vast majority of that demonization is from religious leaders and partisan politicians. When you hear that demonization reach the halls of congress or the rose garden under the guise of "family values", and see your life being made more difficult by other citizens with the popular vote, there's no choice left but to fight back and try to educate others. It's already working...as more of us come out, and more of our neighbors, friends and coworkers see we aren't the monsters Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell make us out to be, the sad fiascos like we saw in the US Senate last week look more and more ridiculous every time.

So, flame away if you wish. Pun again intended. And happy gay pride month to all! :)

[yermom]

there goes the neighborhood

[GhostOfJAS]

there goes the neighborhood

LOL...next thing ya know I'll be raising the property values by cleaning up said neighborhood

[Big Red Ron]

Okay, time to come out (pun intended) of lurk mode after a year or so. Among my gay friends and I, the whole "hate the sin, love the sinner" thing is a big joke. The people who say that are generally the same people who spread lies about the "gay agenda" of trying to recruit and abuse children, wanting to destroy American values and all of western civilization, and whatever other BS. They say we're all diseased, have 1000s of partners, live to only 40, and all other sorts of ridiculous crap.

So to get to the point of the original post - it's not that your religion finds homosexuality to be a sin that any of us object to. As others have said, if it's a sin to you, don't do it. But the fact is we have to deal with people (especially around here) who try to make our lives more difficult by demonizing us, and the vast majority of that demonization is from religious leaders and partisan politicians. When you hear that demonization reach the halls of congress or the rose garden under the guise of "family values", and see your life being made more difficult by other citizens with the popular vote, there's no choice left but to fight back and try to educate others. It's already working...as more of us come out, and more of our neighbors, friends and coworkers see we aren't the monsters Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell make us out to be, the sad fiascos like we saw in the US Senate last week look more and more ridiculous every time.

So, flame away if you wish. Pun again intended. And happy gay pride month to all! :)Leave it in the closet and I have no problem with you queers. Take it to the streets with your parades and Pride Months and you begin to interfere with my family, thus FORCING me to explain what you people are and why you should not be listened too. A tough task but you force us to try and explain without making you all look like sickos to our kids.

[GhostOfJAS]

Leave it in the closet and I have no problem with you queers. Take it to the streets with your parades and Pride Months and you begin to interfere with my family, thus FORCING me to explain what you people are and why you should not be listened too. A tough task but you force us to try and explain without making you all look like sickos to our kids.

Nice to meet you too, BRR. I didn't realize someone was holding a gun to your head and forcing you and your kids to go to the gay pride parade. If I see you there in a couple of weeks, I'll kindly ask the guy with the gun to leave you alone so you can go home and pretend we don't exist.

[Big Red Ron]

Nice to meet you too, BRR. I didn't realize someone was holding a gun to your head and forcing you and your kids to go to the gay pride parade. If I see you there in a couple of weeks, I'll kindly ask the guy with the gun to leave you alone so you can go home and pretend we don't exist.Actually, I was just having a nice afternoon with my kids and all of a sudden I noticed a couple of guys wearing chaps w/no pants walk by. At that point I realized what the gathering at the other end of the park was. Like I said what you do in your own home is non of my business. Take to the streets or force us to have gay books in the public library's children section (thanks Mayor Mick) and I'll be calling a fudge packer a fudge packer.

Nice to meet you too.

[Okla-homey]

But tolerance is not enough for some homosexuals; they demand validation or approval, as if sodomy were a sacrament in their own narrow religion.

But I'd rather stand before the Lord and hear "You forgave as you were forgiven; well done faithful servant," instead of "you really ripped those homos good in My name; now let's talk about all the things YOU did to discredit Me!"

Very wise counsel. I agree, the "We're here, We're queer, get used to it!" crowd (a/k/a "rainbow nazis") are doing more harm to their cause than good with all the "in your face you intolerant cretin!" stuff.

Put another way, legions of gay men aboard floats in "Pride parades" wearing a$$-less chaps and dog collars is rather off-putting. Instead, they should practice discretion and confine fudge packaging-related activities to the privacy of their own homes and leave me and mine completely out of it. I, in turn, solemnly promise I will never, ever to try and peek in and spy on their deviant acts.

[GhostOfJAS]

BRR, homey, and others...I swear I'll be open-minded enough not to lump in all anti-gay folks with Fred Phelps, and I won't lump all heterosexuals in with the most perverted things spotted at Mardi Gras/Las Vegas/Jerry Springer/Fox TV, if y'all will consider the possibility that the handful of guys in a$$less chaps and dog collars that are in a parade for 3 hours per year are not even remotely representative of the life of the average gay man. Thanks.

[Okla-homey]

BRR, homey, and others...I swear I'll be open-minded enough not to lump in all anti-gay folks with Fred Phelps, and I won't lump all heterosexuals in with the most perverted things spotted at Mardi Gras/Las Vegas/Jerry Springer/Fox TV, if y'all will consider the possibility that the handful of guys in a$$less chaps and dog collars that are in a parade for 3 hours per year are not even remotely representative of the life of the average gay man. Thanks.

Fair enough. Just no public displays please.

As far as the civil rights part goes, I have no problem with civil unions to garner legal rights and tax benefits. I guess its really pretty similar to forming a limited liability partnership anyway. Go ahead and call them civil marriages if it makes anyone feel better.

I think lots of people are just rather reluctant to grant homosexual couples the ability to "marry" in the fullest sense of the word, particularly given marriage has profound religious connotations and implications. IOW, most definitely NOT in church please.

There's also that "slippery slope" argument that once we begin to tinker with the definition of a marriage, we open ourselves up to all manner of alternative forms of marriage including polygamy, incestuous marriages and who knows what else. What happens when some nut-job decides to marry her cat?

[85Sooner]

It's already working...as more of us come out, and more of our neighbors, friends and coworkers see we aren't the monsters Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell make us out to be, the sad fiascos like we saw in the US Senate last week look more and more ridiculous every time.

So, flame away if you wish. Pun again intended. And happy gay pride month to all! :)


No rights should be bestowed based on a behavior. The practicing of sexuality is a behavior. Some people do it, some don't, some with the opposite sex which we call hetrosexuality, some with the same sex which we call homosexuality some with both, we call it bi sexuality. Humans by definition are male or female or hermaphrodite. There are no other categories and regardless what people say its your behavior that determines the category of sexuality you practice, not what you are. It is not a thing, its a behavior.Very simple.

[GottaHavePride]

No rights should be bestowed based on a behavior. The practicing of sexuality is a behavior. Some people do it, some don't, some with the opposite sex which we call hetrosexuality, some with the same sex which we call homosexuality some with both, we call it bi sexuality. Humans by definition are male or female or hermaphrodite. There are no other categories and regardless what people say its your behavior that determines the category of sexuality you practice, not what you are. It is not a thing, its a behavior.Very simple.

True. So many people foget that cuts both ways, though.

[Jeopardude]

And happy gay pride month to all! :)

Happy gay pride month to you!

[MamaMia]

Happy gay pride month to you!When is Happy Heterosexual Pride Month? :P

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

The problem is that if you see a women walking down the street in a short short skirt and tight top...most people are going to think she is a whore....You see two guys in assless chaps with no pants and you think wow those two are gay...But if you see two guys in business apparel just walking down the street, you don't think twice about it but they could be gay just as easily as friends. I am just saying that 90% of the time I don't have a clue or even care if they are straight or gay. Gay people do not effect my life in any manner. As a Christian are job isn't to hate these people, it is be an example for them, if you get a chance ask them if they know about Jesus and try to educate them but don't go "You are going to hell if you don't give up your gay ways" It isn't your job to tell them what to change..if Jesus truly does find his way into their heart, changes will happen in lots of areas

[GhostOfJAS]

No rights should be bestowed based on a behavior. The practicing of sexuality is a behavior. Some people do it, some don't, some with the opposite sex which we call hetrosexuality, some with the same sex which we call homosexuality some with both, we call it bi sexuality. Humans by definition are male or female or hermaphrodite. There are no other categories and regardless what people say its your behavior that determines the category of sexuality you practice, not what you are. It is not a thing, its a behavior.Very simple.

The problem is the talk is about denying marital rights to a group based on sexual behavior, while at the same time sexual behavior is not a requirement for heterosexuals to be allowed to marry. If you're a man and woman couple you could hate each other, never touch each other, never have kids, but be "married" in the government's eyes.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

People like Britney Spears and Kevin and her little 6 hour marriage with that other dumbass do more to tear the specialness of marriage than anything a gay person could do

[yermom]

that or my parents... and their parents :P

actually my poor paternal grandmother has buried 2 husbands now :(

now my mom's side of the family, that is another story...

[Cam]

As much as the concept of marriage being between a man and a women only is put upon a pedestal in this country, you'd think we'd have a better than 50% divorce rate. The gay couples I know that would like to be legally recognized as a couple have been together much, much, much longer than my parents were.

[yermom]

i'm not that close to the gay community, but that hasn't been my experience

i don't really know any old gay people though

[85Sooner]

The problem is the talk is about denying marital rights to a group based on sexual behavior, while at the same time sexual behavior is not a requirement for heterosexuals to be allowed to marry. If you're a man and woman couple you could hate each other, never touch each other, never have kids, but be "married" in the government's eyes.


Which leads to my ultimate point that the government should not be involved in marriage in any way, legally, financially etc....just like they should not be involved in schools etc...

[Scott D]

Which leads to my ultimate point that the government should not be involved in marriage in any way, legally, financially etc....just like they should not be involved in schools etc...

I'd go further and say government shouldn't be involved in reality....but clearly they haven't been involved in that for decades ;)

[85Sooner]

I'd go further and say government shouldn't be involved in reality....but clearly they haven't been involved in that for decades ;)


So true, So true:O

[TUSooner]

maybe your idea of tolerance differs from mine...

it's one thing when it's a religion denouncing homos, you can find another one. they are a dime a dozen around here... but you can't really do that with your government
maybe I forgot the question. :confused:

[TUSooner]

I didn't think the question was about gub'ment, but about religion.

[yermom]

well, i guess i got off on a tangent a bit there, but it's not like if some religion decided to accept gay marriage that it would do anything in real life because of the government

i don't care if some fundamentalist tells me i'm going to hell, i can just ignore them for the most part

[OCUDad]

I didn't think the question was about gub'ment, but about religion.True, but for some folks there appears to be no difference. :rolleyes:

Nobody on this board, though.

[Okla-homey]

Speaking of gubmint implications, although I hate to admit it, Constitutionally, gay marriage may be in the cards. See, the right to get married is considered a fundamental right in our society. The old laws denying people from different races the right to marry were struck down b/c they weren't narrowly tailored to protect a compelling government interest. I think it may be tough to show laws denying homosexual marriage are narrowly tailored to protect a compelling government interest. Especially since Britney Spears has been allowed to get married a couple times now.

[TUSooner]

I dunno really how I feel about the whole deal.
In theory, homosexuality strikes me as weird and abnormal. But it's generally easy to condemn temptations that I don't experience.
In reality, however, I know too many gay people to count. They go about their business and we work together and it really never comes up, (except this lesbian lady I went to law school with was real proud of being with her partner for 10 years, and it seemed decent to congratulate her on her happiness. She's a smart and funny person with no falseness in her at all.)
These otherwise ordinary, decent, honest, kind people seem a lot better to me than some straight folks who can't stop following their genitalia into all sorts of trouble, and who lie and cheat and stuff like that. It seems outrageous for some heterosexual adulterer on his 4th wife and estranged from his kids, to wax indignant about 2 guys or 2 chicks calmly and peacefully living together. (That's just a hypothetical case; I'm not intentionally talking about anybody on the board.)

It seems to me that the real religious issue is not so much where your passions lie, but whether you let any passion control you. So I figure if someone has self-control and doesn't wave their sexuality in my face, I'll just save my self-righteous indignation for some other cause.

[Okla-homey]

I dunno really how I feel about the whole deal.
In theory, homosexuality strikes me as weird and abnormal. But it's generally easy to condemn temptations that I don't experience.
In reality, however, I know too many gay people to count. They go about their business and we work together and it really never comes up, (except this lesbian lady I went to law school with was real proud of being with her partner for 10 years, and it seemed decent to congratulate her on her happiness. She's a smart and funny person with no falseness in her at all.)
These otherwise ordinary, decent, honest, kind people seem a lot better to me than some straight folks who can't stop following their genitalia into all sorts of trouble, and who lie and cheat and stuff like that. It seems outrageous for some heterosexual adulterer on his 4th wife and estranged from his kids, to wax indignant about 2 guys or 2 chicks calmly and peacefully living together. (That's just a hypothetical case; I'm not intentionally talking about anybody on the board.)

It seems to me that the real religious issue is not so much where your passions lie, but whether you let any passion control you. So I figure if someone has self-control and doesn't wave their sexuality in my face, I'll just save my self-righteous indignation for some other cause.

Ditto brother TU. I had a homosexual as one of my wedding groomsmen back in 1982. He was very discrete. He had a masters in English from Harvard earned back when a masters degree meant something. He was also one of the most brilliant and cultured men I ever knew. He turned us on to Mozart, Milton, Elizabeth Barret Browning, fine food and good wine when my future bride and I were both knucklehead kids just beginning our lives having sprung from the red dirt of Carter Co. OK and Orangeburg Co. SC respectively. My wife and I loved him very much. He died of cancer in his spine in 1997. We miss him a great deal.

[TUSooner]

Ditto brother TU. I had a homosexual as one of my wedding groomsmen back in 1982. He was very discrete. He had a masters in English from Harvard earned back when a masters degree meant something. He was also one of the most brilliant and cultured men I ever knew. He turned us on to Mozart, Milton, Elizabeth Barret Browning, fine food and good wine when my future bride and I were both knucklehead kids just beginning our lives having sprung from the red dirt of Carter Co. OK and Orangeburg Co. SC respectively. My wife and I loved him very much. He died of cancer in his spine in 1997. We miss him a great deal.

As Yogi Berra reportedly said: "In theory, there's no difference between theory and practce. In practice, there is." :)

[Big Red Ron]

"you queers"? That's hostile! -jeopard

Sombody got their panties in a bunch. "Don't worry pal, you be back on your knees in no time."

:D

[picasso]

I had that class back in the day. we saw a film called Sex at 70. old couple gettin busy, old man was impudent AND sterile yet he pulled off 5 OG's. ahh yeah, we counted too.:eek:
great class, 2 hours every Tuesday night. 15 minute smoke break betwixt hours of course. whew.

[Big Red Ron]

I had that class back in the day. we saw a film called Sex at 70. old couple gettin busy, old man was impudent AND sterile yet he pulled off 5 OG's. ahh yeah, we counted too.:eek:
great class, 2 hours every Tuesday night. 15 minute smoke break betwixt hours of course. whew.Had it too. I took it during summer school. Picked up on two chicks in the class. Good times.

[Cam]

i'm not that close to the gay community, but that hasn't been my experience

i don't really know any old gay people though
You're assuming my parents were married long. I've been married longer than they were. I don't even think they made it 2 years, maybe it was 3 but I'm not sure. Can't remember back that far. :)

I'm not close to the gay community either, but do/have work/ed with quite a few. Many of them have been with their partners for 10+ years.

[soonerhubs]

Amazing feedback. Thanks to all posts. No I don't really go to this place for religious consultation. However I consider some of you poster great friends and social support for me from time to time.

Do I think Homosexual marriage should be legalized, no. Do I think civil unions that grant them the same rights? Sure.

I suppose I just take issue calling those marriages because I have a firm belief that marriage is sanctioned by God as are families.

Thanks to all you awesome posters: Blue, Cam, TU, Flag, OUSAEmom, BRR, Homey (as always), yermom and others. I value each of your remarks. And the coming out lurker I appreciate yours as well. Different points of view increase my understanding.

[Big Red Ron]

Amazing feedback. I value each of your remarks. And the coming out lurker I appreciate yours as well. Different points of view increase my understanding.Classy as always hubler.

[Cam]

Different points of view increase my understanding.
That's what I like about the good debates on here. I like to get different view points and a better understanding of how people come to their conclusions/beliefs.

[Big Red Ron]

That's what I like about the good debates on here. I like to get different view points and a better understanding of how people come to their conclusions/beliefs.werd

[picasso]

I said sex at 70! and 5 moaners!

[Big Red Ron]

I said sex at 70! and 5 moaners!Mucho spek!

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to picasso again.

[Cam]

I said sex at 70! and 5 moaners!
That must've been before Viagra even. Very impressive.

[soonerhubs]

I said sex at 70! and 5 moaners!

From the text book I've been reading, and your posts of course... It really shows how important sexuality is to a marriage, and this doesn't end with an AARP card either.

[mdklatt]

Stronger families help societys like our's in the long run (I'm not saying this is right or wrong) but the homosexuals cannot procreate and on that basis shouldn't be afforded the same "rights" as heterosexuals.

Then infertile people shouldn't be allowed to get married either, right? If the only point of getting married is squeezing out kids, then vesectomies should be illegal unless you're single.

[Big Red Ron]

A bad sex life will kill a new marriage, let alone one that is 5-10-20-40 years deep.

[picasso]

of course then there was the circa '78 flick of the young sideburned fella wankin it to the oldies.:eek: we cheered when he finished.

now, the young 30 something couple gettin busy was refreshing Jerry.

"I'll be late after the break Teach."

[Big Red Ron]

Then infertile people shouldn't be allowed to get married either, right? If the only point of getting married is squeezing out kids, then vesectomies should be illegal unless you're single.Man, you're grabbing for straws and missing the lovefest. I'd say your side lost this one and it wasn't even close.

[mdklatt]

Man, you're grabbing for straws and missing the lovefest. I'd say your side lost this one and it wasn't even close.

What are you talking about?

Just answer the question--why should infertile couples be allowed to get married? They can't procreate.

[Big Red Ron]

What are you talking about?

Just answer the question--why should infertile couples be allowed to get married? They can't procreate.I will say yes since there are all kinds of ways for infertile people to still procreate. I have yet to see the first anal baby but I consider myself open minded on the subject.

[mdklatt]

I will say yes since there are all kinds of ways for infertal people to still procreate.

So lesbian marriages are okay, then.

What about people that don't want kids? Is there a time limit to start squeezing them out before the gubmint takes your marriage license away?

[Big Red Ron]

So lesbian marriages are okay, then.If one can produce sperm and create a combiniation of the two individuals then I'd really have to think about it.

[soonerhubs]

My professor spoke of a person whose lifepartner was in the hospital about to die. Since they weren't formally married that person wasn't allowed in the room, nor given any information regarding that patients health (Thanks HIPPA) This is where I find a conundrum in not allowing the same rights to these wonderful individuals who believe differently than I, so I see mdklatt's concern for a government neglecting homosexuals regarding that type of right.

I couldn't imagine being held back from medical knowlege regarding my spouse during a medical emergency.

Government's involvement needs to benefit all individuals in my humble opine.

[mdklatt]

If one can produce sperm and create a combiniation of the two individuals then I'd really have to think about it.

You think all infertility treatments involve both parents?

[Big Red Ron]

My professor spoke of a person whose lifepartner was in the hospital about to die. Since they weren't formally married that person wasn't allowed in the room, nor given any information regarding that patients health (Thanks HIPPA) This is where I find a conundrum in not allowing the same rights to these wonderful individuals who believe differently than I, so I see mdklatt's concern for a government neglecting homosexuals regarding that type of right.

I couldn't imagine being held back from medical knowlege regarding my spouse during a medical emergency.Spouse being the key word here. My best friend was in a car accident and his family was out of state. They wouldn't let me in to see him until it was visitation time.

Again, I think that some common sense would help here. There are reasons why they only let family in to see people, mostly for logistics of hospital operation. That said I never said I was against some form of rights to those who live together in this situation. Hell, pick a name and call yourselves family. No problemo.

[Big Red Ron]

You think all infertility treatments involve both parents?Not all but most these days. I guess it would be cheaper to have your buddy pump your wife but whatever.

[soonerhubs]

Spouse being the key word here. My best friend was in a car accident and his family was out of state. They wouldn't let me in to see him until it was visitation time.

Again, I think that some common sense would help here. There are reasons why they only let family in to see people, mostly for logistics of hospital operation. That said I never said I was against some form of rights to those who live together in this situation. Hell, pick a name and call yourselves family. No problemo.
This post should bring peace to you and md. I hope. :D Then again a healthy debate among friends is cool.

[mdklatt]

Not all but most these days. I guess it would be cheaper to have your buddy pump your wife but whatever.

So what's the verdict, then? The only people who are allowed to get married are people who intend to and are capable of having biological children? That's the only function of marriage?

[Big Red Ron]

So what's the verdict, then? The only people who are allowed to get married are people who intend to and are capable of having biological children? That's the only function of marriage?Dood, you realize that law is based on precedent, right? Natural law and precedent law are in agreement on this one. Your like one of those people that feel like because you think something is wrong it should change. I just happen to agree with 99% of all religious folks (who by the way founded this and most other societal law) and I'm not religious. I'm bored with this tiresome circle jerk (pun intended). Carry on.

[OCUDad]

Your like one of those people that feel like because you think something is wrong it should change.What an incredibly unreasonable position to take. If our Founding Fathers had felt that way... oh wait, they did. :P

I think I have to bow out now as well. The veterinarian just called to tell me this horse is dead and beating it is not going to change its condition.

[Big Red Ron]

What an incredibly unreasonable position to take. If our Founding Fathers had felt that way... oh wait, they did. :P

I think I have to bow out now as well. The veterinarian just called to tell me this horse is dead and beating it is not going to change its condition.Good call but I just don't see the comparison between what the founding fathers were looking for and what homosexuals are.

[OCUDad]

sigh...

[Big Red Ron]

sigh...Don't get me wrong I see the parallels just not the moral equivalence. Consider that what the founding fathers were looking to achieve had been under deep philosophical debate and consideration for a few thousand years from almost every major philosopher that ever lived.

[Okla-homey]

The founding fathers, well at least enough of them to form a majority, believed it was okay to own another human being. They also believed women should play no role in public life or even work outside the home. Most believed only male real property owners could vote.

Frankly, that kinda shoots a few holes in the strict constructionist platform IMHO.

Like I said, I don't think homosexual marriages ought to be sanctified in church, but if two fellers want to paddle the same canoe through life, I say let 'em become legally bound to one another if they choose. What could it hurt? Honestly.