View Full Version : Those people who think that Al-Zaqari's death won't stop stuff...
TheHumanAlphabet
6/9/2006, 11:28 AM
IMO are not accounting for AZ's position as a high profile, charasmatic person. There is no other person in his organization as charasmatic as he was. He collected and doled out money to people for their bombings. Now that he is gone, there is no person that has his charisma, has his contacts to pass out money and will not likely exhort people to die for a cause.
The splintered cells may continue to work until they run out of money, and if no high charisma character comes up, then these small cells will probably melt away when they run out of money or get tired of working towards their own deaths...
Just sayin' here...
I hope you're right.
There seems to be no shortage, though, of Imams and clerics preening for cameras, holding thier finger in the air while threatening the Great Satan, with an automatic weapon in the background.
sooner n houston
6/9/2006, 11:34 AM
Sad to say VJ nailed it. One small step.
TheHumanAlphabet
6/9/2006, 11:56 AM
I hope you're right.
There seems to be no shortage, though, of Imams and clerics preening for cameras, holding thier finger in the air while threatening the Great Satan, with an automatic weapon in the background.
Understood. But will they be all ready to go to Allah if they have no money and their family will have no money? MOst of these people are hangers on. But, I for one, while not delusional, am very hopeful on this terrorist take out...
I'm really not sure. Zarquais death will almost certainly be a turning point, but at this time, it's hard to say whether this will mark the tide turning for us over there or whether it will mark the tide turning for them. I seem to recall several months ago hearing something to the effect that we had information indicating that OBL and his cronies were a little miffed at just how violent Zarqaui was toward other muslims. I don't think it to be beyond the realm of possibility that he was 'given' to us by people that wanted him out of the way in order to install someone else as the AQ point man in Iraq. I'd certainly like to think that this is not the case, but for all I know, that is still a very real possibility. AQ may very well see this as a turning point in their favor as well, in which case, I don't know if it will change things for us significantly. Most likely there will be a large lull in the violence while they re-organize, but then it will probably start up again.
I do tend to always dream up the worst case scenarios though, and that is probably it.
TheHumanAlphabet
6/9/2006, 12:15 PM
Interesting info on the take out...
An arrested aid ratted him out... (http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/06/captured_zarqaw.html)
OklahomaTuba
6/9/2006, 12:54 PM
BUT BUT BUT HE'S JUST A MYTH CREATED BY BUSH! HE'S JUST A RUN OF THE MILL TERRORIST!!!!
OklahomaTuba
6/9/2006, 12:55 PM
Heh...
What Part of "Safe House" Doesn't Bush Understand?
In an act eerily reminiscent of the infamous “shock and awe” campaign that marked the beginning of Bush’s illegal and immoral war, two laser-guided bombs fell from the Iraqi sky yesterday, shattering the morning calm and killing 12 innocent civilians as they slept peacefully in their beds. By pure chance, one of them just happened to be Abu Musab Al Zarqawi, the former Jordanian journalist blamed for numerous “terrorist attacks” around Iraq. Zarqawi was using the home as a “safe house”, a place where he could relax away from the probing eyes and eavesdropping ears of an administration determined to infringe upon his constitutional Right to Privacy. After years on the run from the Great Satan, at last he could spend a little quality time with his wife and kids, toss a couple burgers on the barbie, and share a few brewskis with his buddies while sawing heads off an infidel or two. After all, that's what "safe houses" are for. But instead of a little R & R with his friends and family, Big Al got 1000 lbs of TNT dropped right onto his Nike high-tops.
It's hard to be surprised anymore by Bush's endless stream of atrocities. But how far have we sank as a nation, how far has Bush dragged us down into the gutter, when we don't even recognize the concept of "sanctuary" anymore? I suppose the Shrub will drop a daisy-cutter on a home for battered wives next. Or perhaps nuke another orphanage.
In his maddening stupidity, Bush insists this will "turn the tide" in Iraq. If anything, Zarqawi's murder will only perpetuate the Giant Circle of Violence. I'm not entirely sure what that is, but I know it's very, very bad - very, very round - and Bush is completely to blame for it.
Sooner in Tampa
6/9/2006, 01:00 PM
Heh...Must have been pulled from Democratic Underground.
sooner n houston
6/9/2006, 01:19 PM
A comment from the linked article above:
As it is now being reported, the intelligence on Zarqawi's "Safe House" was obtained by Jordanian intelligence through one of Zarqawi's aides. I wonder how much pain was invoked on this individual to get the needed information. Therefore that begs the question: "Is torture justified when trying to obtain crucial information"
etouffee
6/9/2006, 01:35 PM
There is no other person in his organization as charasmatic as he was.You know this how? How do you know there's not someone MORE charismatic, MORE psychotic, waiting to take his place?
He collected and doled out money to people for their bombings. Now that he is gone, there is no person that has his charisma, has his contacts to pass out money and will not likely exhort people to die for a cause.Again, how could you, or anyone else for that matter, know such a thing? What makes you think no one else in his organisation knows his contacts? What makes you think those contacts, being eager to donate money, won't reach out to whoever takes over and continue the revenue stream as if nothing happened? And most absurd of all, what makes you think there's not another Islamist who will exhort people to die for a cause? There is NO shortage of radical Muslim clerics and militants in that part of the world who exhort people to die fighting the infidels on a daily basis.
Taking out Zarqawi was a great thing. But let's keep it in perspective. It may shake things up for the terrorists temporarily, but it won't take them long to reload. There's ALWAYS someone looking to take over the top job in any organisation, and as often as not, that person is worse than the person they're replacing. We really have no choice but to keep finding them and taking them out, at least until we can find a way to stop the funding and the stop desire to join the fight (which may be impossible to stop).
TheHumanAlphabet
6/9/2006, 01:37 PM
Man, etoufee, who ****ed in your coffee today?
walkoffsooner
6/9/2006, 01:42 PM
You know this how? How do you know there's not someone MORE charismatic, MORE psychotic, waiting to take his place?
Again, how could you, or anyone else for that matter, know such a thing? What makes you think no one else in his organisation knows his contacts? What makes you think those contacts, being eager to donate money, won't reach out to whoever takes over and continue the revenue stream as if nothing happened? And most absurd of all, what makes you think there's not another Islamist who will exhort people to die for a cause? There is NO shortage of radical Muslim clerics and militants in that part of the world who exhort people to die fighting the infidels on a daily basis.
Taking out Zarqawi was a great thing. But let's keep it in perspective. It may shake things up for the terrorists temporarily, but it won't take them long to reload. There's ALWAYS someone looking to take over the top job in any organisation, and as often as not, that person is worse than the person they're replacing. We really have no choice but to keep finding them and taking them out, at least until we can find a way to stop the funding and the stop desire to join the fight (which may be impossible to stop).
Good question I also want to know how he knows.
etouffee
6/9/2006, 01:45 PM
Man, etoufee, who ****ed in your coffee today?Nobody did. I'm happy as hell Zarqawi is dead, and I hope it was painful for him, and that he gets his own very special level in hell. But that doesn't mean I have to be unrealistically optimistic about the impact it will have in the grand scheme of things.
TheHumanAlphabet
6/9/2006, 01:54 PM
Listen, I'm not idealistic about this. I know how many people are in the wings. But no one is talking about that perhaps this may be somewhat character driven with a perceived "prophet" type personality at the head. I mean it takes a great deal to exhort people to go blow themselves up to kingdom come. Money, logistics and fanatistism is required to continue this. I just question whether the money and the fanatistism will continue with the largest charasmatic person being "blowed up real good"...
I don't know if anyone is as charasmatic as AZ, but we haven't seen anything on video that would come close, not to say one won't come forward...Just haven't seen any notion of it.
etouffee
6/9/2006, 02:09 PM
I suspect you haven't seen it because it's the kind of paranoid hierarchy where you get killed if you give any indication that you have leadership aspirations.
1stTimeCaller
6/9/2006, 02:11 PM
chinese handcuffs
TheHumanAlphabet
6/9/2006, 02:13 PM
Reaping benefits already...found hostages and weapons cache...
Linky, link (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/world/3955017.html)
Tear Down This Wall
6/9/2006, 02:45 PM
Al-Zarqawi was an Arab.
I have a hard time believing that he was the only charismatic person with leadership qualities in AQ or any other "we hate all westerners" group in the middle east.
They'll find somebody else who'll get the money. It will nevar end. There will always be one group or another who hates us and the way we live. There will also be those with money who don't want to get their hands dirty and will gladly give up some bucks to some poor soul who thinks that killing other will get him unlimited virgins in whatever it is they call heaven.
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