**World Cup Thread**

[Dr.Quack]

Adabayor of Togo, clearly and obviously fouled in the box. Did the striker get a PK? No. Did he get a free kick just outside the box? No. He got nothing for his troubles. As I've said before, African players do not get the same respect their European counterparts enjoy from the refs. And what makes this one ugly is that there is no way to argue. It wasn't a subtle foul. The Swiss defender stuck his leg out behind him to trip the man who had just juked him out of his shorts.

[BeetDigger]

I realize that I haven't posted in here for a while, can't let a immature undergrand on the five year plan who is practicing his "would you like to supersize this" for the all important interview this week, have any satisfaction.

:D


I watched some of the Brazil highlights. OMG, they need to put together a montage of Ronaldo handling the ball and set it with music. The camera shots from 150 yards away don't do the footwork justice during a game. Only when they zoom in and you catch the footwork do you really get an appreciation for how those guys maneuver in traffic.

Oh, and I would like to remind some of you to please keep your posts to soccer and take your comments about the women to a separate thread. This is, after all, a once every four year event. You can talk about the wimmins of the world any time. :D

[GDC]

They remind me of the NBA, all flash and no substance, too much shake and bake and not enough chicken.

[birddog]

the ukraine-saudi arabia match is actually going to be pretty decent. i'm hoping shevchenko can shake off his knee injury and show why he's one of the best finishers in the world. also, togo gets screwed again. apparently they played the wrong anthem in pre-game. ouch. that's usually a pretty emotional thing when you're standing there representing your country and then to have the wrong song played....

[JohnnyMack]

38 page soccer threads make me sad in my pants.

[silverwheels]

38 page soccer threads make me sad in my pants.

Go cry, then.

[BeetDigger]

the ukraine-saudi arabia match is actually going to be pretty decent.


Isn't 4-0 something akin to 49-7 in football?

[GottaHavePride]

38 page soccer threads make me sad in my pants.

Pfff. Go change your settings on your User CP and it's only a 20-page thread. YWIA.

;)

[TUSooner]

Isn't 4-0 something akin to 49-7 in football?

Heh.

I think the "0" is pretty much the same in every sport around the world.

[silverwheels]

Over/Under on victory margin by Spain today? 3?


EDIT: Spain's home kits might be the best in the tourney. Love 'em.

[BeetDigger]

Heh.

I think the "0" is pretty much the same in every sport around the world.

:D I am thinking that in soccer, some zeros are better than others. A couple of decent shots on goal would be equivilent to a late TD or a couple of FG's in a football game.

[silverwheels]

Tunisia up 1-0 at half. Guess I might have to change the o/u. :rolleyes:


There's no reason for Spain to not finish first in this group.

[Dr.Quack]

Is it too late to take the under on Spain's +3 victory margin. Tunisia can't do what they did against Saudi Arabia, and that's play back for 60 minutes. They need to take it to Spain's left defense. That got them the first goal and looks capable of providing one more, but that requires a commitment to attack.

[silverwheels]

Nah, it's not too late. Wait, yes it is. Damn Spaniards. :mad:


Spain's been getting some decent chances, so Tunisia is going to have to keep attacking. I think Spain will score at least once this half. Tunisia can't just sit back in their own half.

[Dr.Quack]

Agreed. The Tunisians can't play for a 1-0 result. There's too much attacking skill on Spain's side. If they get that result, it will be the upset of the tournament, far bigger than Ghana over the Czech Republic, in my opinion.

[Dr.Quack]

Of course, it complicates things when the ref becomes either a spectator or a Spanish fan. Jaziri was fouled!

[silverwheels]

Yeah, the officiating as a whole for the Cup has been bad, despite what FIFA stated the other day.

[Dr.Quack]

The Spanish goal was a beauty. Nothing cheap about that. Tunisia tried to play defense for 75 minutes and got what they earned.

[silverwheels]

I knew it. Tie game. Raul with the equalizer.

[BeetDigger]

I knew it. Tie game. Raul with the equaliser.


Fixed it. I think you are supposed to use the European versions in this thread.

Colour me bad. :texan:

[silverwheels]

Fixed it. I think you are supposed to use the European versions in this thread.

Colour me bad. :texan:

:P

I thought about it, but I changed my mind at the last second.


Beautiful timing on the through ball for Spain's second goal. Doesn't get much better than that.

[Scott D]

Spain's second goal had nothing on Fred's goal yesterday ;)

[silverwheels]

Spain's second goal had nothing on Fred's goal yesterday ;)

I don't remember seeing it. I was probably asleep or drunk or both.

[silverwheels]

And Spain adds another one on a PK. Don't know if it was deserved or not, but Spain had this thing pretty much wrapped up, anyway.

[Dr.Quack]

True, it was over, but that was a gift of a PK. The run of very poor officiating continues.

[TUSooner]

Spain's second goal had nothing on Fred's goal yesterday ;)

The Brazilians have Ronaldo, Robinho, Ronaldinho, Cafu, Dida, Romario, Lucio, Rivaldo, KaKa....

and Fred.

Just Fred. As in Flintstone.


Does the guy have a bizarre sense of humor (sorry, humour :rolleyes: ) or what?

That kills me.

[Scott D]

The Brazilians have Ronaldo, Robinho, Ronaldinho, Cafu, Dida, Romario, Lucio, Rivaldo, KaKa....

and Fred.

Just Fred. As in Flintstone.


Does the guy have a bizarre sense of humor (sorry, humour :rolleyes: ) or what?

That kills me.

Frederico Chaves Guedes

[BeetDigger]

Frederico Chaves Guedes


Do all of them have middle and last names too?


I don't know why soccer has this tradition of only using one name, but I kind of think it's cool. Does it limit the team to only one player with that name? That would suck if you lived in Brasil and were this up and coming soccer whiz and your first name was Ronaldinho. Its like you couldn't even defect and go play for Argentina since that one name is taken already. You'd have to change it. Maybe like Ronaldinhohobobo. Or something.

[GottaHavePride]

The Brazilians have Ronaldo, Robinho, Ronaldinho, Cafu, Dida, Romario, Lucio, Rivaldo, KaKa....

and Fred.

Just Fred. As in Flintstone.


Does the guy have a bizarre sense of humor (sorry, humour :rolleyes: ) or what?

That kills me.

Every time I hear Kaka's name I think of that scene in the Three Amigos. "LOOKuphere, LOOKuphere! ca-CAW! ca-CAW!!!"

[silverwheels]

Do all of them have middle and last names too?


I don't know why soccer has this tradition of only using one name, but I kind of think it's cool. Does it limit the team to only one player with that name? That would suck if you lived in Brasil and were this up and coming soccer whiz and your first name was Ronaldinho. Its like you couldn't even defect and go play for Argentina since that one name is taken already. You'd have to change it. Maybe like Ronaldinhohobobo. Or something.

Ronaldinho's real first name is Ronaldo. "Ronaldinho" means "little Ronaldo" in Portuguese, since there was already a legend with the name Ronaldo.

[birddog]

well, tomorrow begins the part of the tourney where the groups are being sorted out. 4 games total with the most intriguing being sweden v. england and germany v. ecuador. i'm hoping we can get a true measure of what ecuador will be capable of shoeing in the next round. i'm still not sold on them. also, is it official that owen and rooney are starting up front for england? i have heard anything other than speculation. if it's true, good lord they will give defenders fits with their pace. obviously their tactics will change a bit as they won't have the height to play long ball and instead will look to play off each other from penetrating passes. i think crouch got a yellow and another one would keep him out of the second round game. considering what the refs see as a yellow in this tournament, i wouldn't risk it in a game that is basically meaningless as far as advancing to the second round.

[birddog]

38 page soccer threads make me sad in my pants.
why exactly is this a problem for you? i mean, this is a sports forum. you should probably stick to your hockey thread as your posting here only adds to the length of the thread.

[GDC]

The Brazilians should have had their socks match their jerseys, instead of white.

[Scott D]

Do all of them have middle and last names too?


I don't know why soccer has this tradition of only using one name, but I kind of think it's cool. Does it limit the team to only one player with that name? That would suck if you lived in Brasil and were this up and coming soccer whiz and your first name was Ronaldinho. Its like you couldn't even defect and go play for Argentina since that one name is taken already. You'd have to change it. Maybe like Ronaldinhohobobo. Or something.

this might explain it.


Why Ronaldinho Has No Last Name
How Brazilian soccer players get their names.
By Nick Schulz
Posted Saturday, June 10, 2006, at 9:09 AM ET

The World Cup kicked off on Friday, and defending champ Brazil will take the field against Croatia on Tuesday*. The South American squad features FIFA World Player of the Year Ronaldinho, along with stars like Ronaldo, Cafu, and Fred. Why do so many Brazilian soccer players go by one name?

That's the Brazilian convention. Nicknames and first names are used in all settings, no matter the gravity. Brazil's president, Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, is known to all by his nickname, Lula. Clergymen, doctors, and other professionals are frequently known by an informal name. The phone book for the town of Claudio even lists inhabitants by their nicknames rather than their surnames.

Brazil's affinity for nicknames might stem from the country's historically high illiteracy rate. As such, shortened spoken names are typically used more often than longer birth names. In Brazilian society, the use of a first name or nickname is a mark of intimacy. It's also often a class signifier. Lula, for one, is known for his working-class roots.

Some scholars speculate that the use of single names could have its roots in the slave system. (Slavery was abolished in Brazil in the late 19th century.) When they were documented, slaves would be referred to either by their first name only—say, Joao—or by their first name and country of origin—say, Joao Congo.

When the English introduced soccer to Brazil in the 1800s, Brazilians referred to players in the English manner, by their surnames. But as the sport grew in popularity, nicknaming took over. When the Brazilian national team played its first match in 1914, the squad featured a forward called Formiga, which means "ant" in Portuguese.

Seventeen of the 23 players on Brazil's current World Cup roster go by a single name. There are no hard and fast rules, but naming conventions reflect the Brazilian adoration for goal-scorers and their relatively diminished affection for the players defending their own end. The most famous forwards in Brazilian soccer history, Edson Arantes do Nascimento and Manuel Francisco dos Santos, are better known as Pele and Garrincha. Defenders typically do not have nicknames—the given name of fullback Roberto Carlos is Roberto Carlos da Silva. Goalkeepers tend to be known by their surnames as well as their first names. In almost a century, there has been only one major keeper known by a nickname: Dida, Brazil's starting goalie in this World Cup.

Players with the same first name often change their moniker to differentiate themselves. In recent decades, there have been several Ronaldos at the national level. One became known as Ronaldao, meaning "big Ronaldo." Another became Ronaldinho, meaning "little Ronaldo." When another Ronaldinho came along in the late 1990s, he was called Ronaldinho Gaucho—that is, "little Ronaldo from Rio Grande do Sul." Eventually, the first Ronaldo left the Brazilian national squad, so Ronaldinho became Ronaldo. Ronaldinho Gaucho became Ronaldinho.

Three other nations in this year's World Cup feature lots of players known by only one name. Portugal, Brazil's former colonial overseer, has 10. Portugal's neighbor Spain has six players known by a single moniker. Angola, another former Portuguese colony, has 16, including Jamba, Loco, and Love.

[birddog]

it'd be nice if you'd elaborate why you think soccer fans are not very smart. please explain.

[birddog]

also, you don't need that comma after point.:rolleyes:

[BeetDigger]

Thanks Scott D. And to Silverwheels, well, you made my point.

Oh wait, sorry, I may be taking this thread to far afield. Back to the games, guarding and shooting (matches, marking and kicks on goal for you soccer purists).

[birddog]

you're not gonna let that go, are ya?:P

[Cam]

Oh wait, sorry, I may be taking this thread to far afield. Back to the games, guarding and shooting (matches, marking and shots on goal for you soccer purists).
Fixed it for ya.

Kind of looses the punch if you're not saying it right. ;)

[Cam]

Good to see the Ukraine bounce back.

It was just a matter of time for Spain. They were putting some blistering shots just wide.

[Ruuuuuufus]

If Crouch gets a yellow tomorrow he's not out for the knockout rounds. The 2 yellows in different games penalty resets after group play.

[Scott D]

he should be out for sucking ;)

[Cam]

he should be out for sucking, period
Fixed it for ya.

Crouch won't touch the field tomorrow. Sven doesn't want to take the chance of him picking up another yellow. Wouldn't be that great of a loss IMO.

[silverwheels]

And to Silverwheels, well, you made my point.

:confused:


I've been drinking, so I don't follow.

[BeetDigger]

:confused:


I've been drinking, so I don't follow.


I said that a player would have to change his name if it was already taken by someone else. I had no idea that he had changed his name because Renaldo was already taken.

[Scott D]

and Germany takes an early lead on Ecuador.

[TUSooner]

it'd be nice if you'd elaborate why you think soccer fans are not very smart. please explain.
no no no no no. we do NOT need any such explanations!
:D

[Scott D]

Klose 2 Ecuador 0 (Halftime)

[silverwheels]

I said that a player would have to change his name if it was already taken by someone else. I had no idea that he had changed his name because Renaldo was already taken.

Oh, okay. That makes sense now that I'm sober.

[Dr.Quack]

This good German performance has certainly settled all doubt about what's at stake in England vs. Sweden. England only needs a draw, but they'll play to win precisely because the Swedes have no choice but to play to win. The English front will want to score to prove Sven's changes correct. I'm hoping England wins big (I can't believe I just typed that), opening the door for Trinidad. It's a CONCACAF thing.

[silverwheels]

Klose is pretty damn good.

[Dr.Quack]

I think Ecuador is a pretty good and dangerous side, but we're seeing a mixture of inspired German soccer coupled with what happens to teams that play to tie.

[birddog]

3-0 now. i hate trying to switch from game to game.

[birddog]

If Crouch gets a yellow tomorrow he's not out for the knockout rounds. The 2 yellows in different games penalty resets after group play.
http://football.guardian.co.uk/worldcup2006/story/0,,1800379,00.html

[Scott D]

poor Owen Hargreaves, he gets booed every time he steps on the pitch in this World Cup.

[snp]

Awesome. I won't be able to catch the WC today. My big TV is broke, and now my friend took my second TV. Couple that with 3 DVD players that are now defunct, I need to get the hell away from the computer before this thing breaks also

:monitor explodes:

[King Crimson]

i think it's pretty cool on Thursday that the US-Ghana game is on ESPN and ESPN2 will have the Italy-Czech game. i know the scheduling aspect of the final group games played simulatnesouly was previously discussed.....but that they are both *on TV* at the same time is excellent. looks like i'll be heading to my buddy's with screen-in-screen.

hope i'm as excited after the games. :eek:

[GottaHavePride]

You can always hit Italy-Czech with the DVR, but they'll just talk about who's winning during the US-Ghana game anyway.

[TUSooner]

It looks like 5 goals were scored by ethnic Poles today. Klose (2) and Podolski for Germany and Bosacki (2) for Poland.

I was unable to watch either match, but the score suggests Ecuador phoned it in vs. the Huns.

[Dr.Quack]

It looks like 5 goals were scored by ethnic Poles today. Klose (2) and Podolski for Germany and Bosacki (2) for Poland.

I was unable to watch either match, but the score suggests Ecuador phoned it in vs. the Huns.

You got it right, but don't doubt that Germany played brilliantly. England and Sweden will play a great match this afternoon to avoid the Germans. Should be fun to watch.

[Scott D]

Ouch.....Owen injured..his knee buckled a bit untouched and he went down....almost willing to bet it's an ACL which sucks for him. Stringbean has been brought in as a substitute.....


Feel dumb for not having more than 3 forwards yet Sven?

[GottaHavePride]

Heh. Yeah, that sucks for Owen.

[Scott D]

England looking stronger offensively to start this game......I'm worried about the Owen injury though...since he plays for my club team in England.

[Scott D]

Sweden very smart man marking Rooney with Lucic

[Scott D]

Beauty of a goal by Joe Cole.

[Scott D]

No Marcelo, no Neville in for England is probably the best thing for them...both of them are so overrated they make Beckham look underrated.

[GottaHavePride]

Heh. Is it just me, or are the halftime segments better when it's just Julie Foudy? It seems like all Eric Wynalda ever does when he's on camera is talk about how much everyone else sucks and act ****y that he's not still playing.

Seriously, I know Ronaldo for Brazil has been underwhelming, but is it really necessary to refer to the guy as fat and worthless everytime his name is mentioned?

[Scott D]

and 5 minutes into the second half Sweden ties it.

[Scott D]

85th minute...nice header by Gerrard on a pass by Joe Cole...as of right now Joe Cole would be my man of the match.

[Scott D]

then Henrik Larsson ties it again..but with Paraguay winning, T&T is eliminated.

[GottaHavePride]

That last goal by Sweden was just idiotic. About three different English players should have picked that up and they just stood there while it bounced past.

[Dr.Quack]

England vs. Ecuador and Sweden vs. Germany. England and Germany will be favored. Anyone want to make a case for an upset in either match?

[TUSooner]

I saw about 4 minutes of the 2nd half, Sweden had tied it 1-1, and hit the crossbar once or twice. England seemed mesmerized by Sweden's corner kicks. I had to look away, it was hideous.

I can only imagine what a bunch of spectators England looked like on the last goal. Those defensive "naps" will kill them, even against Ecuador. At the end of the day, they won their group, but lost Owen.

[TUSooner]

England vs. Ecuador and Sweden vs. Germany. England and Germany will be favored. Anyone want to make a case for an upset in either match?


Sweden has better chance of winning than Ecuador; but England is more likely to disappoint than Germany. How's THAT for equivocation ?! :D

[Dr.Quack]

Heh. Is it just me, or are the halftime segments better when it's just Julie Foudy? It seems like all Eric Wynalda ever does when he's on camera is talk about how much everyone else sucks and act ****y that he's not still playing.

Seriously, I know Ronaldo for Brazil has been underwhelming, but is it really necessary to refer to the guy as fat and worthless everytime his name is mentioned?

I agree. Wynalda seems to have appointed himself the crank of the set. He seems insecure to me. The symptoms are his weird name dropping of people he's spoken with as though he has some inside track and his negativity about so many people. I would hope he has some phone numbers to call since he's posing as a journalist now. As for the negativity, there's a great deal to celebrate in the tournament. Jumping on Ronaldo, a fading star who got jeered off the field last match, just seems cruel.

[Dr.Quack]

Sweden has better chance of winning than Ecuador; but England is more likely to disappoint than Germany. How's THAT for equivocation ?! :D

I think what you wrote makes a great deal of sense.

[Scott D]

I agree. Wynalda seems to have appointed himself the crank of the set. He seems insecure to me. The symptoms are his weird name dropping of people he's spoken with as though he has some inside track and his negativity about so many people. I would hope he has some phone numbers to call since he's posing as a journalist now. As for the negativity, there's a great deal to celebrate in the tournament. Jumping on Ronaldo, a fading star who got jeered off the field last match, just seems cruel.

Wynalda is bitter at how his international career ended....as a substitute, that wasn't going to see the field no matter what.

[Dr.Quack]

I wonder what I could trade for an Angola goal right now? I'm thinking a little piggy, or is that too extreme?

[TUSooner]

Wynalda = bitch
/////
Could Mexico falling apart? I see on the FIFA /Yahoo web cast that they missed a PK and then got a red card. :)

[TUSooner]

I wonder what I could trade for an Angola goal right now? I'm thinking a little piggy, or is that too extreme?
Did you sacrifice it? They got one.

[colleyvillesooner]

So did Iran.

Why do we want Angola to win? Cause it's Iran, or is it standings stuff?

[Jeopardude]

Iran ties up Angola late in 2nd half. Mexico could survive this loss.

[TUSooner]

I'm only for Iran if my wife is in the room. ;)

I'm always against Mexico.

:D

[TUSooner]

So Mexico loses to Portugal but backs in due to Iran's draw w/ Angola.

[Dr.Quack]

Sheesh, talk about wasting a little piggy. At least I have nine more.

There's a lot on the line for Holland and Argentina besides pride and revenge for Holland ousting Argentina from the 2002 tournament. The winner plays Mexico, the loser plays Portugal.

[TUSooner]

Sheesh, talk about wasting a little piggy. At least I have nine more.
Save some digits for tomorrow and the semi's, Doc.


There's a lot on the line for Holland and Argentina besides pride and revenge for Holland ousting Argentina from the 2002 tournament. The winner plays Mexico, the loser plays Portugal.

I'd love to be home on the couch for this one. I'll be pulling for the Dutch, but Argentina puts up the numbers and has gotten rave reviews. I only saw Arg vs Ivory Coast, and they looked pretty good. I think either Holland or Argentina can easily handle Mexico and can probably beat Portugal as well.

[Scott D]

Ouch.....Owen injured..his knee buckled a bit untouched and he went down....almost willing to bet it's an ACL which sucks for him. Stringbean has been brought in as a substitute.....


Feel dumb for not having more than 3 forwards yet Sven?

I hate to say I called it but.


BADEN-BADEN, Germany — Michael Owen will miss the rest of the World Cup after tearing the anterior cruciate ligament in his right knee.

The English striker was injured Tuesday in the second minute of his team's 2-2 draw with Sweden in Cologne. Owen had a scan on his knee Wednesday near England's team base in southern Germany and was to return home later in the day.

"Obviously it's a massive blow to suffer the injury — and be out of the World Cup," Owen said in a statement. "As soon as it happened I knew I was in trouble. It was a major disappointment to pick up the injury so early in the game."

Owen's right knee buckled after he played a pass. He rolled off the field and lay on the sideline clutching his leg while play continued. He was treated by doctors and then strapped to a stretcher and taken away.

The English Football Association said Owen's recovery would be handled by his English Premier League club Newcastle. Freddy Shepherd, the club's chairman, said Owen had ruptured the ligament, but it was "too early to say how long he will be out for, although it is a serious injury."

Players generally need 6-to-8 months to recover from a torn ACL.

"Everyone at the club will give Michael their full support and our concern now is to provide the best possible care for Michael and get him on the mend as quickly as possible," Shepherd told Newcastle's website.

Owen said he was "clearly sorry" to leave Germany, but was convinced England would be a success.

"I'll be following all the matches very closely and giving them my full support, hopefully all the way to Berlin," he said. "My main objective is now to get fit as quickly as possible for Newcastle United."

The 26-year-old Owen, who broke a bone in his right foot on Dec. 31, only returned last month. He had been replaced in both of England's World Cup games before Tuesday.

"Michael has had terrible luck with injuries since Christmas," England coach Sven-Goran Eriksson said. "I feel very sorry for him to miss out on the rest of the World Cup — it's a blow to him and a big loss for the team.

"However, I am sure Michael will work very hard to get back as quickly as possible for Newcastle and England. He is a true professional and a very mentally strong person. I hope the team can now go on and achieve success in Germany for Michael."

Both England and Sweden have advanced to the second round from Group B.

"It's very disappointing for him and the team, as well," England goalkeeper Paul Robinson said. "Unbelievable. Just as he was getting fit, as well. It's just a very, very unfortunate incident."

Owen made his World Cup debut as an 18-year-old in 1998, scoring an incredible goal against Argentina. He's been a mainstay in England's attack ever since.

This year's World Cup is his fifth tournament for England, but Owen has had a disappointing past two years.

He moved from Liverpool to Real Madrid in 2004, but failed to break into the starting lineup. He moved back to England last season with Newcastle and made 10 starts for the club and one substitute appearance.

Owen's latest injury means Wayne Rooney's fitness has now become crucial for England. The Manchester United striker started his first game since breaking his foot on April 29 and lasted 69 minutes.

Without Owen, England has only three strikers left: Rooney, Peter Crouch and 17-year-old Theo Walcott, who has only 25 minutes of international experience and has never played in the English Premier League for Arsenal.

"To lose a player of Michael's quality is bad for the team and it's bad for the squad," Robinson said. "The loss of a striker is going to hit any squad, but we've got Theo, we've got Stevie (Gerrard), who can play up there off the front two. We've got Wazza (Rooney) and Crouchy who are playing well at the moment. We should be all right."

England plays Ecuador in the second round in Stuttgart on Sunday.

[TUSooner]

More bad luck for Owen. :( Maybe it will inspire his teammates to go the full 90 (or 97, 98, or 99...)

Even without Owen, the only way Walcott will play is if England gets 3 up on Ecuador, i.e., never.

[TUSooner]

Well glory be. THe mighty Argentine scoring machne goes goalless vs Holland. But Holland does the same.
Maybe it's because both teams go on regardless, but
Ivory Coast & Serbia-MN were in a "meaningless" match and they came up with 5 goals between them.

[TUSooner]

Argentina's next meal -- Mexican!

[Scott D]

Well glory be. THe mighty Argentine scoring machne goes goalless vs Holland. But Holland does the same.
Maybe it's because both teams go on regardless, but
Ivory Coast & Serbia-MN were in a "meaningless" match and they came up with 5 goals between them.

both teams rested a lot of starters because of yellow cards. I managed to fall asleep during Argentina/Holland. But that was mostly because of work.

[birddog]

yeah, there wasn't much to appreciate out of that game. there wasn't much to play for. i gotta tell you, call me crazy but i have a really good feeling about tomorrow. how about johnson and mcbride up top with donovan as a withdrawn striker supporting them. dempsey and convey out wide and. reyna in the middle, bocanegra, cherundelo, lewis, and onyewu at the back. i hope they can find a place for johnny o somewhere in the middle.

[Scott D]

I'm hearing that beasley will be on the left or left center tomorrow.

[Jeopardude]

yeah, there wasn't much to appreciate out of that game. there wasn't much to play for. i gotta tell you, call me crazy but i have a really good feeling about tomorrow. how about johnson and mcbride up top with donovan as a withdrawn striker supporting them. dempsey and convey out wide and. reyna in the middle, bocanegra, cherundelo, lewis, and onyewu at the back. i hope they can find a place for johnny o somewhere in the middle.

I don't think we lose much with Pope out, but Mastroeni was looking solid. And maybe Donovan will wake up.

If there is a U.S. victory, feel free to join in what should be a two car victory parade through the streets of Norman. The one in 2002 was amazing.

[colleyvillesooner]

WELL, THAT SUCKED :(

[GottaHavePride]

No joke. What the hellcrap was that?

I have decided I don't like Bruce Arena. The best word I can think of to describe his personality is "smarmy". He's like Mack Brown without a Vince Young.

[ouflak]

It's over. Until the U.S. decides to invest itself into the sport the way it invests itself in Football, Baseball, Basketball, and even Hockey, this is probably as good as we should hope to do. Congrats on making it this far.

[TUSooner]

WTF good is Landon Donovan??

He's hot stuff in MinorLS, but practically invisible out there with the big guys.

That penalty for Ghana was BS, but take it away and you still have the USA scoring 1 little bitty goal of their own in 4 & 1/2 hours of play.

That

is

lame.

:mad:

[GrapevineSooner]

Heh (http://sturminator.blogspot.com/2006/06/win-or-go-home-yankees.html#comments).



I think the USA needs to take the ball to the rack every time. All this hanging around at the top of the penalty box firing off brick after brick is not going to win a championship. Sure, I know what a lot of you will say; FIFA has already designated Michael Essien as the next Zidane, so he gets all the calls on his reckless drives to the goal, while our guys get hammered and, voila, no yellow cards. But, as Bob always says, the refs aren't going to hand out yellow cards when a team is just standing around the perimeter kicking long range bombs.

[BeetDigger]

It's over. Until the U.S. decides to invest itself into the sport the way it invests itself in Football, Baseball, Basketball, and even Hockey, this is probably as good as we should hope to do. Congrats on making it this far.


I believe that I tried to cover this issue about 30 pages ago.


But since you reintroduced it, how does the US fund World Cup soccer? What team is this? Is it our national team, is it a team just put together for the World Cup, sort of like the Olympic teams? Do other countries organize their teams differently? Do I have a bunch of work to do that I am putting off while I post this question?


I can answer that last bit - yes. However, I did put in 13 hours yesterday and put together a pro-forma analysis that, if I do say so myself, kicks arse.

[BeetDigger]

I have decided I don't like Bruce Arena.


I've never seen the guy before but all it took me to come to the conclusion that this guy is dislikeable and smarmy was one two minute showing of a media interview.

[TUSooner]

...
Landon Donovan won't play against the best talent in the world (pro Europe leagues) to become the best he can be... because over there he's just another midfielder. Here in the US he can get the sweet Nike deal, play in a crap MLS league and disappear in the World Cup. It's all about HIM.
.......
That's a smart piece of underwear, right there folks.

[TUSooner]

God Bless the USA, and I wish they had played on. But forget that stupidly inflated #5 ranking. :rolleyes: They are, in the end, pretenders -- along with the Trinidads, Tunisias, Togos and, yes even the Irans, of the soccer world.
So anyway (he continued to post to himself) , now that the amusing distraction of the USA national team is over, we can get down to the real business at hand - which of the serious nations will win?

Watching that question get answered on the field is much more fun than useless fantasizing about the USA maintaining the charade of respectability for more than just one game every four years.

[Scott D]

God Bless the USA, and I wish they had played on. But forget that stupidly inflated #5 ranking. :rolleyes: They are, in the end, pretenders -- along with the Trinidads, Tunisias, Togos and, yes even the Irans, of the soccer world.
So anyway (he continued to post to himself) , now that the amusing distraction of the USA national team is over, we can get down to the real business at hand - which of the serious nations will win?

Watching that question get answered on the field is much more fun than useless fantasizing about the USA maintaining the charade of respectability for more than just one game every four years.

Well I think part of it also is depending on who you get in your draw. The only other group I think we would have been just as bad in would have been the group with Argentina and Holland.

Regardless, we are still among the top 32 teams in the world to have gotten this far. Interestingly I read an article that was done before the WC that said we wouldn't qualify from our group, however we were getting close to being an actual power...the players in our 'acadamies' are getting better. Our midfielder of the future who ironically was born in Ghana is likely going to be playing in Europe next season at the ripe old age of 17 (he turned 17 just under 3 weeks ago). Although internationally, we may need to prove that we're dedicated enough to the National team so that he doesn't decide to play for Ghana instead.

Regardless this is better talentwise as compared to even 1994 where we had great athletes who were good soccer players as compared to now where we're more likely to say we have good athletes who are better soccer players. I don't think we are far from the point where we have great athletes who are great soccer players.

[Dr.Quack]

It's over. Until the U.S. decides to invest itself into the sport the way it invests itself in Football, Baseball, Basketball, and even Hockey, this is probably as good as we should hope to do. Congrats on making it this far.

Not to be argumentative, but the US side made it farther last World Cup, and did so in 1994 as well. The US team has made five consecutive World Cup Finals. That's a record many fully invested nations would drool over. England can't say that, and France can't say that, just to name two fully invested soccer-happy countries that have also experienced ups and downs. I think it's a simple matter of admitting we got out-prepared, out-coached, and out-played by two superior sides resulting in a lack of points in group play. The US team has proved that we can be competitive in the past and will be competitive again. But full investment by fans won't guide the ball into the goal. Every tournament is different, but the story unfolded on the pitch rather than in the American psyche. Similarly, investment didn't help the US win baseball's world tournament a couple months ago, nor did it always net the dream team Olympic Gold in basketball as our team proved not so long ago. Top honors in hockey have eluded the US for a good while. Nobody else plays football. Competing with the world is a fun and interesting challenge. American soccer has a crowded field to overcome compared to those other sports. We competed and fell short of expectations, but I don't feel devastated. We drew a tough group and didn't play our best. I think a new coach (preferably with a Dutch mentality, since that style seems compatible to the skills of our younger stars), and some infusion of fresh faces and we may do better in 2010. Maybe we'll have some world basketball, baseball, and hockey trophies by then, and maybe we won't.

[TUSooner]

Well I think part of it also is depending on who you get in your draw. The only other group I think we would have been just as bad in would have been the group with Argentina and Holland.

Regardless, we are still among the top 32 teams in the world to have gotten this far. Interestingly I read an article that was done before the WC that said we wouldn't qualify from our group, however we were getting close to being an actual power...the players in our 'acadamies' are getting better. Our midfielder of the future who ironically was born in Ghana is likely going to be playing in Europe next season at the ripe old age of 17 (he turned 17 just under 3 weeks ago). Although internationally, we may need to prove that we're dedicated enough to the National team so that he doesn't decide to play for Ghana instead.

Regardless this is better talentwise as compared to even 1994 where we had great athletes who were good soccer players as compared to now where we're more likely to say we have good athletes who are better soccer players. I don't think we are far from the point where we have great athletes who are great soccer players.
How dare you spoil my whiny rant with facts and logic !!
I hate that. :mad:

:D :D

What you say is true, but we haven't gotten there yet.

[TUSooner]

And, oh yeah, if Freddie Adu plays for Ghana, he'd better go ahead and stay there.

[Scott D]

And, oh yeah, if Freddie Adu plays for Ghana, he'd better go ahead and stay there.

one reporter joked about today being the 'Freddie Adu Bowl' ;)

[Scott D]

How dare you spoil my whiny rant with facts and logic !!
I hate that. :mad:

:D :D

What you say is true, but we haven't gotten there yet.

it's ok, that's why 'average fan' hates me on the football forum too, especially after a loss :D

[TUSooner]

one reporter joked about today being the 'Freddie Adu Bowl' ;)
He should figure he's better off here because we need him more!

It might have at least been fun to see him out there instead of Reyna and Donovan.

[Dr.Quack]

Beet Digger, the USSF is the national soccer organization for the US. They manage the men's and women's teams. The teams are selected by the managers who are employed by USSF. The best players all over the world are members of a club team and a national team. League play among clubs is usually non-existent during World Cup play (although the MLS is an odd exception as it avoids competing with football by playing all summer) and during periods when qualification matches proliferate. Sometimes clubs have to sacrifice players when the national side calls. The players for the US are well paid by world standards for their participation on Team USA.

[Dr.Quack]

This is from Bruce Arena's post-game press conference.
On how the 2006 U.S. World Cup Team will be remembered:
“It was a good team. When our draw came in December, we knew it was going to be very difficult, therefore I was real pleased today to be in position to advance with a win. That’s why I’m so disappointed in the circumstances that developed during the game to put us in a position to probably not have the chance – well, we had a chance in the second half, I can’t deny that. However, I would have liked to have a real good chance in the second half to win that game. I think it was tough going in, emotionally, at halftime with that call at the end and now having to chase the game. But that’s all part of it and we have to deal with it. It’s a real fine line, I think you can see. We were a little bit better in certain areas. Maybe if we got a break or two throughout these three games we might have been in a better position, but we knew this was going to be a grueling three games in group play and there wasn’t a whole lot of room for error. There were too many errors to position our team to advance.”

On whether he would do anything differently:
“I don’t know. I don’t think there’s anything that’s major that we would change. I think the roster that we picked was about the right roster. Our preparation was about right.”

Anyone care to comment?

[BeetDigger]

Beet Digger, the USSF is the national soccer organization for the US. They manage the men's and women's teams. The teams are selected by the managers who are employed by USSF. The best players all over the world are members of a club team and a national team. League play among clubs is usually non-existent during World Cup play (although the MLS is an odd exception as it avoids competing with football by playing all summer) and during periods when qualification matches proliferate. Sometimes clubs have to sacrifice players when the national side calls. The players for the US are well paid by world standards for their participation on Team USA.


Thanks. Who pays for the USSF? And how are the other teams of other nations funded? And, last question, does the USSF also field the Olympic team?

[Scott D]

This is from Bruce Arena's post-game press conference.
On how the 2006 U.S. World Cup Team will be remembered:
“It was a good team. When our draw came in December, we knew it was going to be very difficult, therefore I was real pleased today to be in position to advance with a win. That’s why I’m so disappointed in the circumstances that developed during the game to put us in a position to probably not have the chance – well, we had a chance in the second half, I can’t deny that. However, I would have liked to have a real good chance in the second half to win that game. I think it was tough going in, emotionally, at halftime with that call at the end and now having to chase the game. But that’s all part of it and we have to deal with it. It’s a real fine line, I think you can see. We were a little bit better in certain areas. Maybe if we got a break or two throughout these three games we might have been in a better position, but we knew this was going to be a grueling three games in group play and there wasn’t a whole lot of room for error. There were too many errors to position our team to advance.”

On whether he would do anything differently:
“I don’t know. I don’t think there’s anything that’s major that we would change. I think the roster that we picked was about the right roster. Our preparation was about right.”

Anyone care to comment?

I have no real beef with the roster...but more with the 10 men he chose to put out in front of Keller. On the other hand, this was the last opportunity in a world cup for Reyna, and likely McBride, and probably Pope as well.

That is something I think could be more important to the development of our National Team more than anything.

It's funny, I think our 94 team was far superior to our 2006 team, however our 2006 team is a lot more talented than our 94 team.

[Scott D]

oh and woo, Robinho starting against Japan :D

Croatia already up 1-0 on the Aussies.

[Dr.Quack]

A mixture of private donations, television revenue, revenue from matches, and licensing of products (shirts and bobbleheads). I'm sure there are ways they make money I'm unaware of. They do fine. Other countries have similar bodies. I'm fairly sure the Olympic squads are managed by the USSF as well. They have a website ussoccer.com where you can keep up with the positive spin and official story.

[Scott D]

someone woke up Ronaldo...be afraid...be very afraid.

[Scott D]

oh and Japan is using the tricky 6-2-2 ;)

[Scott D]

if not for the Japanese keeper this'd be 3-0 in the first 15 minutes for Brazil.

[Scott D]

:eek: great shot puts Japan up 1-0.

[Dr.Quack]

:eek: great shot puts Japan up 1-0.

Thanks for the update. I was going to skip this one, but when a minnow takes the lead on a shark my interest is always piqued.

[Scott D]

it's actually a very entertaining end to end kind of game. I'd wager that Brazil has dominated possession, and shots on goal....the Japanese keeper has been THAT good.

[Scott D]

and Ronaldo ties it on a great header on some great ball movement by Brazil in extra time in the first half.

[dolemitesooner]

The headed by ronaldo was the ****z

[TUSooner]

In retrospect, instead of wasting an hour of vacation time watching the USA, I wish I'd taken the time to watch the two matches this afternoon. The Aussie-Croat matchup has everything riding on it and seems to be a barn-burner -- according to the ever-exciting "matchcast" :rolleyes:.
OY OY OY

I think Arena's assessment of the team's performance is accurate. Whether he had the best 11 on the field in the right places all the time, I dunno; but second-guessing is all that's left for those of us who don't get to make the first guess.

[Scott D]

the front end for Brazil looks a lot more effective and has a lot more movement with Adriano out and Robinho in. Surprizing since most people placed Ronaldo as the reason for sluggishness up front. I think Adriano tried to play off of Ronaldo too much.

[Scott D]

Juninho makes it 2-1 Brazil in the 53rd minute.

[Scott D]

Gilberto makes it 3-1 on a great long pass by Ronaldinho.

[silverwheels]

Didn't take long for Brazil to wake up and say, "Hey! We're Brazil! We should be whooping their arses!"

[Scott D]

Ronaldo with his second goal which ties him for first all time in the World Cup...and Brazil subs in their backup keeper in a 4-1 game with under 10 minutes to go.

[Scott D]

Brazil with the 4-1 win that was probably more lopsided than the score indicated, but entertaining nonetheless.

And on another front.


NUREMBURG, Germany (Reuters) - U.S. captain Claudio Reyna has called time on his international career after their World Cup exit on Thursday and could soon be followed by striker Brian McBride and maybe even coach Bruce Arena.

"I'm probably done," Reyna told reporters after his team lost 2-1 to Ghana in their final Group E match. "That's it."

The curtain-call was bitter-sweet for Reyna, 32, who came off just before halftime after straining his left knee ligaments having lost possession in the lead up to Ghana's first goal.

He then had to watch from the bench as the U.S. slipped to defeat after a dubious penalty awarded against them deep into first-half stoppage time by German referee Markus Merk.

"I knew pretty much before (the tournament) that this would be the last World Cup for me," said the midfielder.

Reyna and goalkeeper Kasey Keller became the first Americans to feature in four World Cups when they played at these finals.

"For me, the right time (to retire) is now. The next World Cup is far away. I just wanted to play this as the last World Cup," he added.

[GottaHavePride]

What the heck happened at the end of the Aussie-Croatia game? It was madness - right in a row you had a red card slapped on both teams, and then right at the end of stoppage time the ref hit another Croatian with a red card right as he was ending the game. Weird.

[mrowl]

<newbie alert>

So did that Nike camp thing in Florida help the US this year, or not? Or are we going to have to wait until next time?

</newbie alert>

[birddog]

well, we're about 50 years behind the world in our approach to training players. we will continue to develop players and we'll make small strides to competing with other countries whose best athletes play soccer. i wonder if we'll be sending our major leaguers to a camp after their loss to mexico in the baseball classic?

[birddog]

What the heck happened at the end of the Aussie-Croatia game? It was madness - right in a row you had a red card slapped on both teams, and then right at the end of stoppage time the ref hit another Croatian with a red card right as he was ending the game. Weird.
i never figured out what happened with the reds. didn't croatia score with no time left but they called offsides? that was a helluva game.

[TripleOption14]

And, oh yeah, if Freddie Adu plays for Ghana, he'd better go ahead and stay there.

NO WAY!!! I gotta disagree w/ ya here. This is the exact same as players that wanted to play for their home country in the Baseball World Classic and its the same as Basketball players who play in the NBA but when Olympic time rolls around they go back to represent their home country. Adu was born and raised in Ghana and if he wants to go back in 4 years to play for them more power to him. Ultimately, its his choice and he has a legit reason to play for both.

[BeetDigger]

i wonder if we'll be sending our major leaguers to a camp after their loss to mexico in the baseball classic?



Good point. World Series may be a misnomer.

[Sooner95]

Well, I will retract my statement of Ghana is the bottom feeder of the E group. Apperently I had the wrong team..geez..lol

[GottaHavePride]

Good point. World Series may be a misnomer.

Plus, the difference between the US and most other countries in international competition is that the best players in most other countries consider it a huge honor to play for their national team. In the US (especially basketball) a lot of our best players decline to play on our national team because they don't want to risk injury that might impact how much they get paid.

[birddog]

i kind of get the feeling that bruce won't be back. he did a world of good for the team after the sampson debacle but i'm not sure he wants to sort thru the carnage after this cup. i'm not sure if mooch myrenick (assistant) is the answer either. there's a chance we'll look across the pond to someone like advocaat (korea) or hiddink (australia). not to say it will be them but i believe we could be successful bringing in someone new to assess talent and broaden the national team pool.

[Cam]

Losing today was a bummer. It's cool that people are actually disappointed that we didn't make it to the knock-out stage. Expectations are rising. Eventually, the team will catch up. I just hope I'm around long enough to see it.

I think our biggest problem is our young player development. Our ODP programs are so freaking political that too often the best players aren't chosen simply because they don't play for the right teams. When I was growing up, if you weren't from Kansas City and didn't make the team the first time you tried out, forget about trying out again. I've heard that it's the same across the country from my college teammates.

Landon Donovan really disappointed me this tournament. If he'd have sucked it up and stayed in Germany last time around, he'd have been better prepared for this level of play. Until our best players make every effort to play in Europe instead of the MLS (2nd rate league at best when compared to European leagues), we'll continue to struggle on the Int'l stage. Just look at Convey's progression the last two years. Dude's game has risen quite substantially since he joined Reading.

Scotty, I thought of you when Owen went out. Could be a long EPL season for you man...

Bruce Arena made the comment that he's got a few options available to him. Please feel free to take one of them up on their offer. It's time for a change. I too would be cool with a Dutch influenced coach. They seem to bring out the best of their players, no matter what country they're coaching.

Until today, I've never been impressed with Eddie Lewis. IMO, he played his best game as a Nat'l team member today. Dempsey's goal was freaking sweet. What a great ball by Beasley.

Brazil finally shows what they're able to do. Even though the score was 4-1, it could've easily been 6 or 7. Both of Ronaldo's goals were freaking sweet. His first was one of those that you see the first pass and think, here comes a goal. Just a sweet play all the way around.

Since my DVR is sofa king messed up right now, I haven't gotten to tape any of the games this week. Cable guy won't be out until Friday morning. :mad:

[birddog]

i got to add that cherundolo had a hell of a tournament. i never really respected him before, but he earned my respect for his play.

[Scott D]

ugh, word is Owen is out for 5 months...so basically it'll be nearly one full year between appearances he'll make for Newcastle. Things look grim up front..Owen injured, Shearer retired, Chopra transferred out....Luque is a goner if we can get someone to take him. Getting through this mess is going to be tough on Glenn Roeder.

[TUSooner]

oh and Japan is using the tricky 6-2-2 ;)


I watched this game last night and it looked like Brazil was playing a 3-5-5 formation ;) They were all over the place and looked fabluous, especially at the start when the Japanese keeper was making 5 or 6 great saves to keep the ball out of the net.

As another poster suggested somewhere, Brazil "plays" while the USA and others "work". That sums it up pretty well. Their flowing play was just a pleasure to watch.

[TUSooner]

NO WAY!!! I gotta disagree w/ ya here. This is the exact same as players that wanted to play for their home country in the Baseball World Classic and its the same as Basketball players who play in the NBA but when Olympic time rolls around they go back to represent their home country. Adu was born and raised in Ghana and if he wants to go back in 4 years to play for them more power to him. Ultimately, its his choice and he has a legit reason to play for both.

hyperbole - A figure of speech consisting in exaggerated or extravagant statement, used to express strong feeling or produce a strong impression, and not intended to be understood literally. ;)

I really hope Adu plays for the USA, but the old ancestral homeland could tough to turn away from.

[TUSooner]

Losing today was a bummer. It's cool that people are actually disappointed that we didn't make it to the knock-out stage. Expectations are rising. Eventually, the team will catch up. I just hope I'm around long enough to see it.

I think our biggest problem is our young player development. Our ODP programs are so freaking political that too often the best players aren't chosen simply because they don't play for the right teams. When I was growing up, if you weren't from Kansas City and didn't make the team the first time you tried out, forget about trying out again. I've heard that it's the same across the country from my college teammates.

Landon Donovan really disappointed me this tournament. If he'd have sucked it up and stayed in Germany last time around, he'd have been better prepared for this level of play. Until our best players make every effort to play in Europe instead of the MLS (2nd rate league at best when compared to European leagues), we'll continue to struggle on the Int'l stage. Just look at Convey's progression the last two years. Dude's game has risen quite substantially since he joined Reading. [etc.]

Much to agree with in that post.

ymssra....

[Scott D]

Interesting factoids....Adu said on PTI yesterday he *will* be playing in Europe this fall/winter/spring. Donovan is still too chicken**** to go back to Europe, and after this most recent showing any stock he has in Europe continues to dwindle. Dempsey will be getting offers to play in Europe.

[Dr.Quack]

I'm likely the only person watching Tunisia-Ukraine this morning. Jaziri was sent off with a red card for accumulation. His first card was definitely earned on a dive in the box. His second card was a total joke. He didn't do a damn thing. This card situation has gotten totally out of control.

[Dr.Quack]

I doubt anyone could possibly care less than they do, but Ukraine just got away with a handball in the area. Okay, here's what makes the no PK call remarkable. The guy who handled the ball, was in the wall and raised his hand over his head to tap the strike up. What could the ref have possibly been looking at at that moment other than the ball? The inside of his ***, perhaps? The officiating may turn me from a fan to an interested observer.

[Dr.Quack]

One minute after missing the hand ball, the ref calls a phantom foul against Tunisia for fouling Shevchenko in the box. He wasn't touched. Undeserved PK for Ukraine. 1-0, and I'm now a mere observer. it's just a shameful performance by the ref.

[GottaHavePride]

Yeah, that game was idiotic. That's why I was watching Spain v. Saudi Arabia. Spain was resting their entire starting eleven, basically took the second half off, and STILL managed to win. Nice effort by the Saudi goalkeeper, though.

[King Crimson]

Yeah, that game was idiotic. That's why I was watching Spain v. Saudi Arabia. Spain was resting their entire starting eleven, basically took the second half off, and STILL managed to win. Nice effort by the Saudi goalkeeper, though.

the time and a half i saw the Saudis they looked like the most overmatched team in the Cup.

[GottaHavePride]

Well, that one game they were thrown off because of the rain. I mean, they're not really used to water falling from the sky in Sudi Arabia. They also said the Saudis were one of only two teams that all the players on the national team play professionally in the home country. Which means they never see competition of the caliber you get at the World Cup. The other team to do that - Italy - can get away with it. ;)

[birddog]

i would have liked to see how we performed in that spain, ukraine, tunisia, saudi group. it's a shame they get to take 2 teams out of that group.

[TUSooner]

i would have liked to see how we performed in that spain, ukraine, tunisia, saudi group. it's a shame they get to take 2 teams out of that group.

Really.
Spain looks like the only team worth a crap in there.

[GottaHavePride]

Togo's goalkeeper putting on an amazing show against France. France getting some good shots but they're being totally shut down.

[birddog]

france broke thru.1-0. korea needs a draw to get thru.

[birddog]

2-0 france now. korea in big trouble.

[birddog]

referees at it again. a linesman held his flag up for offsides and korenas quit running. the swiss player knocked the ball in the net and they let the goal stand. unbelievable. it was blatantly offsides btw.

[Dr.Quack]

That Uruguayan ref who butchered our match with Italy is at it again. The second Swiss goal was a CRIME. The Swiss player was clearly offsides. The linesman put his flag up to indicate the offsides. The referee over-ruled him. All the Korean defenders stopped playing, the keeper made the initial save, THEN the still offsides Swiss attacker nipped the ball in. Everyone, including the crowd and the announcers and certainly the Korean players, thought it was not a goal. Nope, it's THE BUTCHER OF THE PLATE making the wholly irrational over rule...GOAL SWITZERLAND. Now Korea needs two. I'm sorry to have become a poster as stuck on one note as those crazed "tunes" we heard from Croatia's supporters, but this officiating has been MISERABLE during this tournament. Cards fly like confetti. Matches are transformed not by players, but officials. It feels like the NBA.

[GottaHavePride]

Did they eject one of thecoaches or something? I couldn't tell what was going on and neither could the announcers, as far as I heard. ;)

[birddog]

Did they eject one of thecoaches or something? I couldn't tell what was going on and neither could the announcers, as far as I heard. ;)
yeah, i think they ejected the korean coach. you should see the replay of the offsides goal if you haven't yet. you'll understand why he has a beef with the ref. tomorrow will be a great day. sweden v. germany and agrentine v. mexico. loser goes home!! let the fun begin.

[Soonerus]

referees in soccer are almost like figure skating judging...so subjective it almost ruins the sport...I love soccer but these referees are driving me crazy....

[Scott D]

The ref in the Switzerland v. Korea match wasn't our ref, it was another ref who is from Argentina.

[Dr.Quack]

The ref in the Switzerland v. Korea match wasn't our ref, it was another ref who is from Argentina.

Are you positive? They introduced him twice. The first time he was from Uruguay and looked awfully familiar. The second time they introduced him as being from Argentina. After watching so many matches, I could be dead wrong about who he is, but he was introduced twice. Whoever he is, he needs to know that a deflection does not put a player onsides especially when the flag was up and everyone but the goal scorer stopped playing.

As it turns out, Korea failed to score. But with ten minutes left in the match, who knows what happens if the score is 1-0 instead of 2-0. 2-0 is deflating. Up 'til then Korea looked dangerous and had a lovely habit of scoring late goals in their earlier matches. The beneficiaries of all this are the French, not the Swiss, who would have gone through even if Korea ties the match.

European and South American fans largely, not wholly but largely, view football in the other regions as second rate. I fear this seeps into officiating. It's rarely a side from the two dominant regions that gets jobbed. Maybe it's just my perspective because being a fan from the outlands of CONCACAF I'm sensitive to the appearance of bias against not only my region, but Africa, Asia, and Oceania as well. Only three of the sixteen remaining teams come from football's outlands (Mexico, Ghana, Australia), but I think strange officiating effected the chances of several outlanders. That's not just the spectacular job pulled on Korea or Tunisia in the final days. I'm talking about all along the way. Yellow cards flew all around, but it was us outlanders who generally lost key players on bad calls. I'm not saying the quality of play isn't generally far superior in Europe and South America. It is. I'm saying that European and South American refs rarely give us outlanders the benefit of the doubt at this stage, which is too bad.

[King Crimson]

what are those lines on the field in the Germany-Sweden match?

also, is it just me or does the "group of death" winner, Italy, have an easier road than most to advance out their 4 team quarterfinal? having worked for and friends with several Italians....their renewed sense of all-importance being abetted by this potentially easier road is something that will affect me personally.

Germany 1-0, 4:50.

[Dr.Quack]

Germany strikes early. 1-0.

[Dr.Quack]

Those lines are light streaming through the ornamentation atop the stadium. Italy got by far the easiest draw. Australia then the Switzerland/Ukraine winner. They should cry and whine and dive to the semifinals and bow out there. Germany 2-0.

[King Crimson]

Those lines are light streaming through the ornamentation atop the stadium. Italy got by far the easiest draw. Australia then the Switzerland/Ukraine winner. They should cry and whine and dive to the semifinals and bow out there. Germany 2-0.

that's what i figured, but it didn't seem like the players were casting shadow across them during play.

the general World Cup MO for the Italians i know (excepting 94, to a small degree)...is "this is a bad italy team....so every success they DO have...should only indicate further our overall general superiority". my g-grandmother was full-blooded Italian so they aren't as rough on me as others we know....but it's still annoying and will only get worse....as they "cry and whine and dive" (as you say) out of the quarters.

[Cam]

Germany has just taken it to the Swedes the first 20 minutes.

Sweden better get it together or this is going to end up 3/4-0.

[jk the sooner fan]

its easy to see why germany is so much better than the US....they actually play a team game,.......they're moving the ball around at will against the swedes, and are amazingly accurate with their passes......

[birddog]

if argentina pulls thru today we've got an old school quarterfinal matchup between germany and argentina.

[Cam]

Not to mention that they're actually able to do the basics, like trap a ball. For some reason, our boys forgot how to do the simple things. Our first touch was **** poor.

[Cam]

if argentina pulls thru today we've got an old school quarterfinal matchup between germany and argentina.
Should be a fun game to watch if that unfolds.

[jk the sooner fan]

it seems the US plays soccer with a hockey type mentality....dump the ball in the corner and see if something develops......."dump and chase"...you're dead right though, the basic skills are missing.....

[birddog]

germany's calling their shots right now.

[Cam]

Red card for Sweden. That was pretty bogus. I didn't think either yellow was deserved. Fouls yes, yellow cards, no.

[King Crimson]

it seems the US plays soccer with a hockey type mentality....dump the ball in the corner and see if something develops......."dump and chase"...you're dead right though, the basic skills are missing.....

there's also very little wasted ball motion by Germany....we seem to stand around with pretty bad spacing and make short, dangerous passes that don't really accomplish much in terms of advance or reset the strategic field of play...until eventually we lose possession.

[Dr.Quack]

Red card for Sweden. That was pretty bogus. I didn't think either yellow was deserved. Fouls yes, yellow cards, no.

It's a nightmare. Germany is playing brilliantly. They don't need the ref pulling the plug on the match by sending a Swede off for two really rather minor fouls.

[birddog]

i've said that so many times this tournament. i can't remember how many times i've seen a team play short. much more often than 11 v. 11.

[birddog]

it used to be a big deal if a team lost a man. now it's just so ordinary. i hope we don't see that in the semis and finals.

[Scott D]

Are you positive? They introduced him twice. The first time he was from Uruguay and looked awfully familiar. The second time they introduced him as being from Argentina. After watching so many matches, I could be dead wrong about who he is, but he was introduced twice. Whoever he is, he needs to know that a deflection does not put a player onsides especially when the flag was up and everyone but the goal scorer stopped playing.

As it turns out, Korea failed to score. But with ten minutes left in the match, who knows what happens if the score is 1-0 instead of 2-0. 2-0 is deflating. Up 'til then Korea looked dangerous and had a lovely habit of scoring late goals in their earlier matches. The beneficiaries of all this are the French, not the Swiss, who would have gone through even if Korea ties the match.

European and South American fans largely, not wholly but largely, view football in the other regions as second rate. I fear this seeps into officiating. It's rarely a side from the two dominant regions that gets jobbed. Maybe it's just my perspective because being a fan from the outlands of CONCACAF I'm sensitive to the appearance of bias against not only my region, but Africa, Asia, and Oceania as well. Only three of the sixteen remaining teams come from football's outlands (Mexico, Ghana, Australia), but I think strange officiating effected the chances of several outlanders. That's not just the spectacular job pulled on Korea or Tunisia in the final days. I'm talking about all along the way. Yellow cards flew all around, but it was us outlanders who generally lost key players on bad calls. I'm not saying the quality of play isn't generally far superior in Europe and South America. It is. I'm saying that European and South American refs rarely give us outlanders the benefit of the doubt at this stage, which is too bad.


Well the evil ref of no control is from Paraguay, and the one who called the Ukraine game is from Uruguay, and Fifaworldcup.com said that the one for the Swiss/Korea game was Argentinian, so I was going off of their match records :)

[Cam]

Well the evil ref of no control is from Paraguay, and the one who called the Ukraine game is from Uruguay, and Fifaworldcup.com said that the one for the Swiss/Korea game was Argentinian, so I was going off of their match records :)
FIFA, pfft.

They also had the Czech's ranked at #2 and US at #5. What do they know. ;)

[Scott D]

FIFA, pfft.

They also had the Czech's ranked at #2 and US at #5. What do they know. ;)

good thing that yahoo is running their website then ;)

[Scott D]

ok I've changed my mind about a new coach...can we PLEASE PLEASE have Juergen Klinsmann instead...he was one of my favorite players as a kid, and I like the energy and 'non germanness' to the German team.

[birddog]

looks like australia is getting houllier.

[Scott D]

Jonson deserved a red card for that hit on Ballack...so I guess getting a yellow for it makes up for the red they didn't deserve earlier.

[birddog]

unbelievable. missed pk.

[Cam]

Henrik Larsson

Putting a PK off target is just pathetic. Having the keeper save it is one thing, but missing the entire frame...

[King Crimson]

ok I've changed my mind about a new coach...can we PLEASE PLEASE have Juergen Klinsmann instead...he was one of my favorite players as a kid, and I like the energy and 'non germanness' to the German team.

Klinsmann was a stud in 90.

[Cam]

Germany has made Sweden look like B league team the entire game.

[Dr.Quack]

Does anyone give Mexico a chance? I think they drew last time they played. From what I've seen in this tournament, however, Argentina should win 2-0.

[GottaHavePride]

ok I've changed my mind about a new coach...can we PLEASE PLEASE have Juergen Klinsmann instead...he was one of my favorite players as a kid, and I like the energy and 'non germanness' to the German team.
I would love that. He does live in California now. I just don't know if there's any way you could get him to coach someone other than Germany. Maybe we present it as a challenge - like "sure, you can win with fantastic German talent, but can you manage to win with American talent?"

[Scott D]

I would love that. He does live in California now. I just don't know if there's any way you could get him to coach someone other than Germany. Maybe we present it as a challenge - like "sure, you can win with fantastic German talent, but can you manage to win with American talent?"

more like I don't think Germany would let him go..at least at this point. I think the important lessons are don't have an American, English, or Swedish coach..your team will play boring and underacheiving.

[birddog]

still 1-1 83 minute. colud see extra time. neither side doing much right now. but it is end to end action.

[birddog]

i'd love to see lionel messi get in. if you haven't seen him yet, you'll enjoy watching him play.

[birddog]

and he's in now.

[birddog]

extra time. argentina scored in stoppage time but they called offsides. very close call but they're gonna give it to the defense so late in the game.

[birddog]

argentina just scored the greatest goal i've ever seen in extra time. left footed volley into the far post. 2-1 argentina in 9th min.

[Scott D]

yeah argentina had to bring Messi in, Crespo was spent...Tevez almost made it a 3-1 score.

[Scott D]

bubye mexico....

[Dr.Quack]

Rodriguez' goal was fantastic. I can't remember seeing a better one. Mexico played extremely well. They had a fine tournament. Argentina-Germany should be VERY competitive. It's hard to pick against either team with the beautiful way they're playing.

[TUSooner]

argentina just scored the greatest goal i've ever seen in extra time. left footed volley into the far post. 2-1 argentina in 9th min.
That was awesome - chest to left foot to net.

Germany looked way better than I expected, much more fluid. Argentina not quite as good.

The reffing really is a drag, and the "outlanders" do seem to get the worst of it. But that's a tough job, especially when at least half the players are deliberately trying to fool you every minute.

[TUSooner]

Rodriguez' goal was fantastic. I can't remember seeing a better one. Mexico played extremely well. They had a fine tournament. Argentina-Germany should be VERY competitive. It's hard to pick against either team with the beautiful way they're playing.

I predict the Huns by 1 (1-0 or 2-1), maybe in OT. Klose may not have scored, but but he's playing lights out at the moment. His set up of goal #2was cold as ice.

[Cam]

Argentina was somewhat disappointing yesterday. I hope they didn't blow their load in the group stage.

Germany looks to be the more consistent team from game to game so far.

Don't be surprised if Ecuador beats England today.

I wish they would've stayed with the golden goal in extra time instead of the full 30 minutes.

[Cam]

Ashley Cole keeps England from going down 1-0 at the 10 minute mark.

[King Crimson]

ENG was controlling play early but Ecuador is making some plays..

[birddog]

that was risky business. rooney's gonna be worn out if they continue to have him running solo up top.

[birddog]

who does england play if they win?

[Cam]

Winner of Holland, Portugal, I believe.

[Dr.Quack]

My favorite shot of the match so far was Rooney shouting "hand" to the ref after misplaying the ball into the arm of a prone defender. He's lame.

[birddog]

you are correct. looks like a big if right now, huh?

[birddog]

you can't tell me jermaine defoe wouldn't be giving england a lift right now with his pace and skill.

[Dr.Quack]

Portugal and Holland must be licking their chops right now. Not an inspiring performance by either England or Ecuador. England's had the best of it, but Ecuador had the best chance. 0-0.

[Dr.Quack]

Does Rooney have a history of emotional maturity problems? He acts like a spoiled child.

[Cam]

Does Rooney have a history of emotional maturity problems? He acts like a spoiled child.
He's not match fit so he's not able to do some things that he's normally able to to. It's frustrating him so he's bitching. Not unusual for a frustrated person.

[Cam]

Oh goodie, Crouch is warming up. :rolleyes:

[Cam]

Goal Beckham in the 59th minute.

Great free kick. Not much the keeper could've done about that.

Posh about fell out of her tank top. That would've been nice. :D

[King Crimson]

crap, i missed the goal making a sandwich....

[Cam]

Lampard wastes a great effort from Rooney by shooting into row ZZ.

[Dr.Quack]

That match was comprised of exactly two plays: Cole's save and Beckham's free kick.

England has to be feeling great. They've looked mediocre for vast stretches of all their matches and for a reward are in the quarter finals.

I cannot agree with Balboa's commentary. He was calling for Beckham's removal from the tenth minute. Beckham's goal turned out to be the whole difference. Meanwhile he praised Rooney for 80 minutes. Rooney did not look particularly dangerous to me. He made one brilliant move, that's it.

[BeetDigger]

crap, i missed the goal making a sandwich....


I watched exactly 10 minutes of it and his goal was sandwiched (heh) right in the middle of it. I am beggining to understand why the US isn't into soccer. You can watch for two hours and miss 10 minutes and that is when the goal is scored. If it is going to take off in the US, they need to take away three players and add a two point and a three point circle so that goals that result from shots from farther away count more.

[Scott D]

Lampard wastes a great effort from Rooney by shooting into row ZZ for the 40th time this World Cup.

fixed :)

[Scott D]

I watched exactly 10 minutes of it and his goal was sandwiched (heh) right in the middle of it. I am beggining to understand why the US isn't into soccer. You can watch for two hours and miss 10 minutes and that is when the goal is scored. If it is going to take off in the US, they need to take away three players and add a two point and a three point circle so that goals that result from shots from farther away count more.

but yet ironically Americans will sit in rapture at a 1-0 baseball game with all of it's multitudes of stoppages in play. :)

[birddog]

this is crazy.

[Scott D]

Valentin Ivanov has made Jorge Larrionda look extremely competent.

[Scott D]

absolutely worst refereeing job ever. Portugal won despite the ref today.

[birddog]

i think i hate holland now. very poor sports.

[birddog]

and why the hell does van nistlerooy not even see the field? one of the best goalscorers in the world and he's over there pullin splinters out of his arse.

[GottaHavePride]

I was hoping for Ivanov to throw one more card and set a new record. I think they said he gave 16 cards in the game to tie the world cup record.

I thought there was going to be a brawl on the field. And if one started on the field, you know one would have started in the stands... :D

[Dr.Quack]

Does Portugal have enough players left to field a full eleven against England on Saturday?

These are supposedly the best referees in the world. What did FIFA tell them prior to this tournament? "Forget what brought you here and spoil as many matches as possible?"

Uh oh, Ivanov just threw me out of the match. So long, six-fellow fans and the occasional hater who drops by.

[King Crimson]

I watched exactly 10 minutes of it and his goal was sandwiched (heh) right in the middle of it. I am beggining to understand why the US isn't into soccer. You can watch for two hours and miss 10 minutes and that is when the goal is scored. If it is going to take off in the US, they need to take away three players and add a two point and a three point circle so that goals that result from shots from farther away count more.

yeah, but i was making the sandwich when i missed the goal. i don't project that onto the sport itself--as some endemic quality that merits criticism. nor will it cause me to stop watching. :P

[King Crimson]

Does Portugal have enough players left to field a full eleven against England on Saturday?

These are supposedly the best referees in the world. What did FIFA tell them prior to this tournament? "Forget what brought you here and spoil as many matches as possible?"

Uh oh, Ivanov just threw me out of the match. So long, six-fellow fans and the occasional hater who drops by.

you're off Quack. :D

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40160000/jpg/_40160440_red_card.jpg

[Cam]

absolutely worst refereeing job ever. Portugal won despite the ref today.
Yeah, that was pretty sad. I was at the indoor center getting ready for my game and there were about 12-15 people watching the game. None of us could believe what was going on. Every time there was a tackle, we were waiting for the cards to come out. The most common remark was "You've got to be fuggin kiddin me."

To the Dutch dude that didn't give the ball back and got whacked as a result, nobody should feel sorry for you. You did the wrong thing dude. Should've just booted it to the Portugal goalie or put it over the touch line.

[Cam]

If it is going to take off in the US, they need to take away three players and add a two point and a three point circle so that goals that result from shots from farther away count more.
Why is it the American way to take something somebody else created, change the rules to bastardize it beyond recognition in order to like it?

If the changes you suggest were ever put forth by FIFA, I'm done playing, forever. I have a feeling that I wouldn't be the only one.

[birddog]

i can't understand why higher scoring = more entertaining. if goals counted as 3 instead of 1, i guess the casual viewer would say it was a better game because the score was 9 to 6 instead of 3 to 2. remember when the league started in '95 all the changes we made to make it more american? gah, i don't ever want to see that again.
i get the point of the possibility of getting more points for arcs and what not, but then it would just be a different sport altogether.

[TUSooner]

I was hoping at least one of these DVR'd games would be with watching, but after getting the update from you guys, I guess not. :(

Did Sven's 4-5-1 create anything? I thought it was a dumb idea, even though it was really just a conservative 4-3-3.

Does Quack's send-off mean he can't post tomorrow ??

[TUSooner]

i can't understand why higher scoring = more entertaining. if goals counted as 3 instead of 1, i guess the casual viewer would say it was a better game because the score was 9 to 6 instead of 3 to 2. remember when the league started in '95 all the changes we made to make it more american? gah, i don't ever want to see that again.
i get the point of the possibility of getting more points for arcs and what not, but then it would just be a different sport altogether.

I think FIFA ought to consider making a win worth 4 points and draw of 1-1 or more worth 2, and a scoreless draw worth 1.

It seems like it was in my lifetime that a win changed from being worth 2 to being worth 3. (Unless that was hockey.)

[birddog]

rooney was man of the match, for sure. not much else happened. i'd watch the holland match if not just to see chaos.

[King Crimson]

i think a goal should be worth a million points.

[birddog]

quack's sending-off is under review by sepp blatter. he may be reinstated and back on the board by tomorrow.

[birddog]

i think a goal should be worth a million points.
maxi rodriguez's goal shoulda been. talk about a beauty.

[Scott D]

and why the hell does van nistlerooy not even see the field? one of the best goalscorers in the world and he's over there pullin splinters out of his arse.

word is that Van Nistelrooy has ****ed off Van Basten majorly. On the heels of him ****ing off Sir Alex Ferguson within the last 6 months this isn't really good for Van Nistelrooy's reputation.


Does Portugal have enough players left to field a full eleven against England on Saturday?

These are supposedly the best referees in the world. What did FIFA tell them prior to this tournament? "Forget what brought you here and spoil as many matches as possible?"

Uh oh, Ivanov just threw me out of the match. So long, six-fellow fans and the occasional hater who drops by.

on a bright note, it's a good thing Portugal has a 23 man roster...and basically a week off. Cristiano Ronaldo should be ready to go by the 1st of July. Losing Deco to the red card isn't very good for them.


To the Dutch dude that didn't give the ball back and got whacked as a result, nobody should feel sorry for you. You did the wrong thing dude. Should've just booted it to the Portugal goalie or put it over the touch line.

Agreed, I don't know which I found worse..the fact that this guy nearly ignited a brawl (would have been started by another Dutch player, or the fact that Newcastle wants to sign Dirk Kuyt, and I'm finding him to be a little bitch as the World Cup has gone on.

[BeetDigger]

Why is it the American way to take something somebody else created, change the rules to bastardize it beyond recognition in order to like it?

If the changes you suggest were ever put forth by FIFA, I'm done playing, forever. I have a feeling that I wouldn't be the only one.


I forget how seriously some people take things, especially the Football folk.

I was kidding about the rule changes. No way that they change the rules to appease the 'Merican's. I suspect that the soccer loving nations embrace soccer even more given the lack of interest that the sport has in 'Merica. Yeah, the French and German's would love to appease 'Merican viewing tastes.

For me, stupid 'Merican who actually doesn't hate soccer in spite of never playing it, I wish they would show more closeups of the ball handling. They show it in the ads for the games, yet they don't show it that much during the games.

Now, I prepare to get comments back from the Football aficionados like "if you had played the game, you would be able to tell the footwork from 100 yards away" or "you can't change the camera angles, that is a distinct part of the game to watch it from the top of the stadium." So if I my comments, which are not intended to offend anyone, somehow offend anyone, then I apologize in advance.

[BeetDigger]

but yet ironically Americans will sit in rapture at a 1-0 baseball game with all of it's multitudes of stoppages in play. :)


Yet with any pitch, a homerun could be hit to tie the game. And 1-0 games occur very infrequently vs. the fact that they happen quite often soccer. Avg. scoring in this WC is probably around 2.5 goals per game (with no virtually no lead changes) vs. avg. number of runs scored per game in a the playoffs in baseball is probably closer to 6, with at least one or two lead changes and the fact that even a 8 run lead is not insurmoutable. I am not saying that soccer is bad or should be changed, just what changes the avg. fan in the US would probably prefer to make the sport more popular here.

[Scott D]

Yet with any pitch, a homerun could be hit to tie the game. And 1-0 games occur very infrequently vs. the fact that they happen quite often soccer. Avg. scoring in this WC is probably around 2.5 goals per game (with no virtually no lead changes) vs. avg. number of runs scored per game in a the playoffs in baseball is probably closer to 6, with at least one or two lead changes and the fact that even a 8 run lead is not insurmoutable. I am not saying that soccer is bad or should be changed, just what changes the avg. fan in the US would probably prefer to make the sport more popular here.

but even more ironically is that Americans will watch 20 cars make left hand turns for 2-3 hours. Driving has always been boring.

[Scott D]

Italy getting some good chances, Schwartzer is on his game today.

On another note, Marcelo and Harkes have gotten pretty good at being adequate color guys...now if they'd get rid of Wynalda I'd be happy with just Lalas and Foudy as the in studio people.

[King Crimson]

lalas says some things that makes sense and doesnt' come across like a **** drinking weenie like wynalda. EW was pretty smarmy after the loss to Ghana, IMO. Foudy made the same points he did, but without being crass and smug.

[King Crimson]

i'm unable to watch today, but looking forward to tomorrow's Brazil-Ghana, France-Spain games.

[TUSooner]

i'm unable to watch today, but looking forward to tomorrow's Brazil-Ghana, France-Spain games.

Me too. Except I won't be able to watch tomorrow either. :mad:
~~~
I agree that Balboa and Harkes are decent color guys, and I most certainly agree that Eric Wynalda's whiny, bitchy brat-boy shtick provokes only boredom and annoyance these days. Foudy and Lalas do fine without him.