**World Cup Thread**

[TUSooner]

Gosh, youse guys sure take your futbol seriously around here.;)

If you look closely, you might discover we may even have referred to it as "football" once or twice. :eek: :D

[birddog]

i think it's sad that people would rather root against soccer than for the u.s. the truth hurts blah, blah, blah. that's weak dude. :rolleyes:

[birddog]

ymssra kc, so yeah, i'm in the springs.

[TUSooner]

While we're just sitting around...
"Soccer" comes from "Assoc." which is short for Association Football, which is the official name for the sport known as football in most of the world.
As of 1863 "football" in Britain included games played with a wide variety of rules, including some that permitted handling of the ball (as in Rugby). At a famous meeting On Oct. 26, 1863, at London's Freemason Tavern 11 schools and clubs agreed to 14 rules that form the basis of the modern game. Real unity wasn't obtained for a few years, but the game played according to the rules of the Football Association became known as Association Football to distinguish in from Rugby amd other forms of football. According to my Okie correspondent in England, saying "soccer" instead of "football" is a faux pas, even though soccer is a purely English word.

[King Crimson]

ymssra kc, so yeah, i'm in the springs.

i remember because of the BBQ. i lived in CS for 3 years and am now in Denver...i'm down there every once in a while to visit friends in the CC/ northeast of downtown area.....where's the restaurant at? i'd be happy to patronize the establishment of a fellow Sooner.

[BeetDigger]

Not to justify the soccer bashing but rather just asking an honest question - why hasn't soccer taken over here like it has in so many other countries? I didn't realize that it had been around since 1863, but given that, there has been plenty of time for the game to become more popular here. And while it does seem to be gaining in popularity, it just seems to become only minutely more popular each year. I think back when the US hosted the World Cup everyone thought that would be the point where soccer would become really popular in the US. But here we are about a decade later and it doesn't seem a lot more popular today than it was back then.

I coached my daughters team this year. This coming from someone who has never, ever played the game. To me, the game is simple enough. The rules are very simple. Not too many situational rules, ala baseball. It's really a perfect kids game. And kids seem to be really into it. But they are really into playing it, not watching professionals play it. I wonder if in 25 years it will be a bigger spectator sport in the US.

[GrapevineSooner]

How many other sports are there in soccer-mad countries like Brazil, Argentina, Mexico, England, Germany, and Italy?

How many sports does soccer have to compete with here?

I think there's your answer.

By and large, it's the big three sports of football, basketball, and baseball. Everything else is just a niche sport and that's probably how it'll be from this point forward.

And don't take this as a soccer bashing post because I generally consider myself to be a purveyor of all team sports who was looking forward to this year's World Cup. Obviously, today's defeat put a little damper on my optimism.

[dolemitesooner]

Not to justify the soccer bashing but rather just asking an honest question - why hasn't soccer taken over here like it has in so many other countries? I didn't realize that it had been around since 1863, but given that, there has been plenty of time for the game to become more popular here. And while it does seem to be gaining in popularity, it just seems to become only minutely more popular each year. I think back when the US hosted the World Cup everyone thought that would be the point where soccer would become really popular in the US. But here we are about a decade later and it doesn't seem a lot more popular today than it was back then.

I coached my daughters team this year. This coming from someone who has never, ever played the game. To me, the game is simple enough. The rules are very simple. Not too many situational rules, ala baseball. It's really a perfect kids game. And kids seem to be really into it. But they are really into playing it, not watching professionals play it. I wonder if in 25 years it will be a bigger spectator sport in the US.

One thing I dont understand about soccer is the offsides rule. It seems to punish speed and clog the game up in the middle of the field. I can see that this would make soccer skill more important over natural athletic ability. But it also slows the game down. One thing is certain, as long as soccer only matters every 4 years it will never be popular. The world cup needs to happen every non-olymiad year or they need some kind of new international competition. Soccer isnt un-fun to play but I can not honestly say why anyone who can afford to feed their population and run electricity to a scoreboard would play it other than in recreation. I think soccer is kind of a tweener sport. It doesnt really reward speed bc the rules dpwn play it, and it doesnt award strength bc you cant run over people and put them down for the match (like I liked to do when I actually played a little). What I can see that it does is reward the most skilled player, which is a great compliment to the sport. However, it is competing with other, more exciting skill competitions: golf, tennis, and even racing. In these other three, rather popular american sports, there is action every serve, swing or lap. Tennis is in a wane right now, but no matter what anyone says, most tennis players worth their salt have lived in the US for a decade, trained here and continue to live, so I dont actually see the tennis as the foreign phenom that everyone else does. Sharapova is american, she has lived since she was 6, morons. I still think the problem is the soccer playing surface is too big. Its bigger than a football field for god's sake. If the field was smaller, we could get more shots on goal, more contact, and more action. Right now we get one shot on goal per 10 minutes if we are lucky. If you dont want the score going up, then shirnk the net. Think of the action; face paced and furious. Goalies all of sudden become stars in america because we can see the head to head over and over. A true sports visionary would make an Amercian Ruels Soccer, that would go over here and just blow off the rest of the world and their poor sport.

[King Crimson]

I still think the problem is the soccer playing surface is too big. Its bigger than a football field for god's sake. If the field was smaller, we could get more shots on goal, more contact, and more action. Right now we get one shot on goal per 10 minutes if we are lucky. If you dont want the score going up, then shirnk the net. Think of the action; face paced and furious. Goalies all of sudden become stars in america because we can see the head to head over and over. A true sports visionary would make an Amercian Ruels Soccer, that would go over here and just blow off the rest of the world and their poor sport.

i couldn't disagree more.

[TUSooner]

Not to justify the soccer bashing but rather just asking an honest question - why hasn't soccer taken over here like it has in so many other countries? I didn't realize that it had been around since 1863, but given that, there has been plenty of time for the game to become more popular here. And while it does seem to be gaining in popularity, it just seems to become only minutely more popular each year. I think back when the US hosted the World Cup everyone thought that would be the point where soccer would become really popular in the US. But here we are about a decade later and it doesn't seem a lot more popular today than it was back then.

I coached my daughters team this year. This coming from someone who has never, ever played the game. To me, the game is simple enough. The rules are very simple. Not too many situational rules, ala baseball. It's really a perfect kids game. And kids seem to be really into it. But they are really into playing it, not watching professionals play it. I wonder if in 25 years it will be a bigger spectator sport in the US.

Just my opinion:

We (Americans, that is) like games where you use your hands. Our football was orignally like Rugby - a hands-on violent game. Our other games are baseball and basketball. We don't like to change.

We have lots of sports already, we like them, and they fill out the year pretty well (although there's a nasty gap between the Super Bowl and baseball's opening day, IMHO ;) )

Professional soccer nowadays involves diving and other dishonorable stuff that makes it seem like a sissy sport. It's also played by too many guys with long hair and nice teeth, some of whom are too handsome or even pretty to be manly athletes. They need shorter hair, broken noses and missing teeth.

We are xenophobic, and soccer is a "foreign game" played by inferior ethnic groups and weak nations like France, Spain, and Italy. Brits and Celts get a pass because they also play Rugby and speak English (sort of) Americans who like soccer often get crapped on by xenophobic troglodytes. :eek:

Until you get used to watching for certain things like positioning, passing, tactics, etc (not brains surgery) it looks like guys running around and faiing to kick this little ball into a huge net. It looks so easy, why can't they do it more often?!) Some games are just plain borinm as even avid aficionadoes will tell you.

We dont have great professional players. A few really good ones, yeah, but not enough.

My daughters love to play, but hardly ever watch a game either.
My then teen-age brother in law, on the other hand, came from Iran to live with me after the Islamic Revolution. Soccer and swimming were all he ever did. They'd play soccer in the streets like American kids play basketball, baseball and touch football. When he arriived, he was head and sholders above even the best Latin players in town. so it was a gas to watch him play and dominate. That made me like the sport. Plus, he taught me how to watch the game. Not everybody gets that exposure.

I doubt soccer will ever be as popular here as it is elsewhere, but as more people get exposed to the game - especially by their kids playing it, it will grow little by little in popularity.
It would help if the US National team didn't look like chumps when they get to the big time, but even if they won the WC, they would not alone make the game immensly popular.
In other words, I don't know!!

Hope that helps, BD. :)

[dolemitesooner]

i couldn't disagree more.
ok agree to disagree

[TripleOption14]

We like something you don't.
BFD.
Am I supposed to be upset because YOU don't care?
WTF :confused:

This was a burritto and tacos conversation..nachos!

And find one time where I said i didn't like futbol. Better yet find one time where i said "I don't care." Man, your just all kinds of wrong on this one.

[TUSooner]

This was a burritto and tacos conversation..nachos!

And find one time where I said i didn't like futbol. Better yet find one time where i said "I don't care." Man, your just all kinds of wrong on this one.
I certainly did interpret your remarks as disdainful of the sport, the WC, and rest of the posters on the thread. Maybe I just lumped you in with gdc who got pretty snarky there for awhile. I don't feel like going back to reread your post. So ... whatever. Anyway, I trust you aren't scarred for life by my innocuous repartee. ;)
TU

[dolemitesooner]

We are still going to get out of this pool. We are going to sart Johnson that kid bought some game. I thkn we are going to be aggresive and score alot of goals against italy and the same for ghana..look out world cup and brazil here we come

[TUSooner]

***One thing I dont understand about soccer is the offsides rule. It seems to punish speed and clog the game up in the middle of the field. I can see that this would make soccer skill more important over natural athletic ability. But it also slows the game down.

Without the offside rule, it might be nothing but long-ball, which can be pretty boring. I understand the rule as well as anybody, but I'm not exactly sure of its necessity



One thing is certain, as long as soccer only matters every 4 years it will never be popular. The world cup needs to happen every non-olymiad year or they need some kind of new international competition.

There's actuially a lot of international competition every year. Only the WC gets hyped in the US, though, so I sort-of see your point.



I still think the problem is the soccer playing surface is too big. Its bigger than a football field for god's sake. If the field was smaller, we could get more shots on goal, more contact, and more action. Right now we get one shot on goal per 10 minutes if we are lucky. If you dont want the score going up, then shirnk the net. Think of the action; face paced and furious. Goalies all of sudden become stars in america because we can see the head to head over and over. A true sports visionary would make an Amercian Ruels Soccer, that would go over here and just blow off the rest of the world and their poor sport.

I have seen a crowded game on a small field and it SUCKS bigtime. Wide open spaces allow for speed, power, and creativity instead of pinball and rasslin.

[TUSooner]

We are still going to get out of this pool. We are going to sart Johnson that kid bought some game. I thkn we are going to be aggresive and score alot of goals against italy and the same for ghana..look out world cup and brazil here we come
Maybe if we get mad enough. Arena wasn't too kind to the team in his remarks after the game, maybe they'll have a "come to Jesus" moment and let 'er rip. It don't hurt to dream!

[dolemitesooner]

Maybe if we get mad enough. Arena wasn't too kind to the team in his remarks after the game, maybe they'll have a "come to Jesus" moment and let 'er rip. It don't hurt to dream!
Yep...I think they just got down real quick after that quick goal .....I mean hell it was there first counter attack

[GDC]

Get rid of the goal-keeper.

[TUSooner]

Speaking of the first goal, that giant Koller made our defender Pope look like a little kid ducking for cover.

[King Crimson]

TU: you didn't really just say "let 'er rip" did you?

:les:

:eek:

[dolemitesooner]

Speaking of the first goal, that giant Koller made our defender Pope look like a little kid ducking for cover.
yeah it was ****ing sick

[BeetDigger]

Thanks for the replies to my question. I don't disagree with the explanations, but I do wonder why, given that the sport was around since 1863, it didn't take off over here a long time ago. I guess the english took it with them to their colonies. That along with the closeness of europe much have led to the spread over there. As far as South America, I guess that is from colonization too. Of course Canada isn't a powerhouse in the sport and one would think that colonization would have gotten them too.

I too would like to bandwagon on the US if they could make a run. For me, it is like the Olympic sports that I don't follow. If the US is in it, I root for them. The women's team was great with their successes in the sport. I guess given the paucity of professional women's sports in the US, that is the reason that we are pretty good relative to the rest of the world. I suppose if more of our premier athletes played soccer, we would be better at it.

I must admit, now that I have coached soccer and been around it with my daughter playing, I like the game more. But still, the game is kind of boring for me.

[birddog]

i remember because of the BBQ. i lived in CS for 3 years and am now in Denver...i'm down there every once in a while to visit friends in the CC/ northeast of downtown area.....where's the restaurant at? i'd be happy to patronize the establishment of a fellow Sooner.
it's on powers and stetson hills, next to a king soopers. send me an im when you come around and i'll buy you a dinner.

[birddog]

Not to justify the soccer bashing but rather just asking an honest question - why hasn't soccer taken over here like it has in so many other countries? I didn't realize that it had been around since 1863, but given that, there has been plenty of time for the game to become more popular here. And while it does seem to be gaining in popularity, it just seems to become only minutely more popular each year. I think back when the US hosted the World Cup everyone thought that would be the point where soccer would become really popular in the US. But here we are about a decade later and it doesn't seem a lot more popular today than it was back then.

I coached my daughters team this year. This coming from someone who has never, ever played the game. To me, the game is simple enough. The rules are very simple. Not too many situational rules, ala baseball. It's really a perfect kids game. And kids seem to be really into it. But they are really into playing it, not watching professionals play it. I wonder if in 25 years it will be a bigger spectator sport in the US.
because nobody likes it and NOBODY CARES!!;)

[Jeopardude]

Man, I hope these last few pages cover the debate over the game. Me, I learned to love the game after playing it as a kid, watching the Gold Cup live in LA and, most importantly, watching it with someone knowledgeable and enthusiastic whose passion was palpable.

Now, France and Switzerland tomorrow. Who knows what's up?

[snp]

Not to justify the soccer bashing but rather just asking an honest question - why hasn't soccer taken over here like it has in so many other countries? I didn't realize that it had been around since 1863, but given that, there has been plenty of time for the game to become more popular here.

There's several reasons, and some of them have already been discussed.

Saying since it's been around since 1863 doesn't matter. Lacrosse and squash have been around forever, but they're still not popular. Longetivity doesn't equal success.

One reason why it takes off in other countries moreso than America is it's a very cheap game to play. All you need is a ball, that's it. Makeshift goals are easy to come by, as well as playing surfaces. In America, we're privy to a bunch of more games. Even some of the poorest kids in America can play football due to our wealth, which is much more expensive then soccer.

Our best athletes don't plays soccer because there's no money locally for it. It's also the type of thinking why we don't care as much for minor league teams - the top talent is playing elsewhere. If we could ever get our top notch athletes out there, viewing would increase.

The sport itself is pretty opposite from our sports. Violence and speed is downplayed. And lots of Americans hate people taking dives, myself included.

Soccer on TV is not conducive to American advertising. There's no commercial breaks except for halftime so a lot of advertisers aren't going to waste money on it.

Etc etc. There's a myraid of reasons why soccer isn't as popular. You could easily write a book about it.




i couldn't disagree more.

Like KC and TU said. A smaller field would make it much worse. You need space to create oppurtunities, shots and crosses. Otherwise you'll just be running into your own guys every 2 seconds.

[jkjsooner]

This is just my opinion so take it for what it's worth. Here are some possible reasons....

1. We have our traditional sports. By the time soccer was in its modern form baseball was already the American pastime. I do recognize that soccer is around 2000 years old but it's only since the late 19th century when soccer broke away from rugby.

2. I think we would have to be very competitive consistently before Americans got into soccer. When we go to a professional game we like to believe we're watching the best in the world at that sport. Even as we've clearly lost our edge at basketball and baseball, we still arguably have the best professional leagues in those sports. I don't think we would get as excited at watching a very good professional soccer league that is still below the English Premier League.

3. This is more of a personal opinion but I like strength, size, speed, quickness, coordination to all play major roles in the sports I watch. I don't see strength and size being big keys to soccer.

4. I also think the lack of hand use detracts from the game. Hand eye coordination is a major aspect of most sports and it's almost totally lacking in soccer (goalie excluded). I'm sure these guys are great athletes but I always had the feeling that they would have no clue how to catch a tennis ball if I threw it at them. Given, these elite athletes probably excelled at other sports too - most elite athletes do.

All that said, I have learned to enjoy soccer more and more as the years go on. The more I watch the more I understand the game. On the other hand, though, I don't feel the necessity to defend Americans for not being as into soccer as other countries are (which I have had to do in the past).

[birddog]

i'm looking forward to brazil-croatia. i think we'll see a tight game there. france...well, we'll see if they can finish this wc. i don't think the swiss will pose much of a problem.

[silverwheels]

3. This is more of a personal opinion but I like strength, size, speed, quickness, coordination to all play major roles in the sports I watch. I don't see strength and size being big keys to soccer.

4. I also think the lack of hand use detracts from the game. Hand eye coordination is a major aspect of most sports and it's almost totally lacking in soccer (goalie excluded). I'm sure these guys are great athletes but I always had the feeling that they would have no clue how to catch a tennis ball if I threw it at them. Given, these elite athletes probably excelled at other sports too - most elite athletes do.

3. Strength and size play very big keys in soccer. If you had played (competitively, not pick-up games), you would know. I don't see how soccer is viewed as a "weak" sport when there is just as much contact, if not more, than in basketball, and certainly a lot more than in baseball.

4. Foot-eye coordination is much more difficult than hand-eye coordination. I played soccer pretty much exclusively for 12 years and I can catch pretty well, even for having small hands.

[birddog]

and just to clarify, usually you hit tennis balls and catch baseballs. and what gives you that clue. 4 of our national team players are surfers. damarcus beasley played soccer, football, baseball, and basketball. in fact, he was offered a basketball scholarship but turned it down to go to a professional soccer school in bradenton. now he plays for psv eindhoven, a team that made it to the semi-finals of the champions league.

[Sooner95]

Well, I don't know much about soccer but I do know this.

USA needs to beat Italy or its over for them.

btw, this is the only time i even pay attn to soccer. Its a big event and i'll support the USA Team.

[birddog]

the arguments could go on and on. people like different sports. i don't like nascar, baseball, bowling, golf, alot of others. i played soccer from the day i was 5 years old and 13 years later, i got a full scholarship to play in college. i have a ton of respect for the game. i got to travel to sweden, denmark, scotland, england, and ireland to play in tournaments growing up. i was exposed to soccer where people know the game. it's just a matter of personal experiences as to what draws you to a certain sport.
i will never bash people for what they choose to watch. but to say that nobody cares is just very, very ignorant.

[silverwheels]

USA needs to beat Italy or its over for them.

With the way Italy attacked today and the way we "played" today...I'm not holding out much hope. I know we can do it, but we'd have to improve on our play 200% to have a chance. Hopefully the guys play with emotion on Saturday. That's the first step.

[snp]

Just goes to show that the only sport Americans are good at anymore is a sport that we only play! All the other sports we've either been caught or passed as far a talent goes. In baseball the latin countries have caught and passed us, in basketball the European players have caught us, and futbol well.... just look at the score 5 min. into the match. Tennis...no more American power, golf still has Tiger but even that gets lost in the fold sometimes.


Please. You're ridiculous. You're taking a USA vs the world arguement, which used to be the case. What's more realistic is a USA vs each country.

We're still the top at golf. We have 18 outta the top 50 in the world. The next closest country is Australia, England, and South Africa at around 6.

We're still the top team at basketball. If you're basing our prowess off that last Olympics, then :rolleyes:. Out of the top 18 scorers, 1 is foreign. Go and look at the All-Star lineups and other league leaders. They're all American.

If you composed a team of world wide players, than MAYBE they could put up a challenge. USA would still beat them 9 times out of 10.

Track and field and swimming and we're still the best.

Baseball hasn't been passed up by all the Latin countries. The D&R is definately producing some major sluggers, but we have the best pitching in the world. I'd say maybe we're even them, and we easily outpace the rest of the Latin world.

And waitta contradict yourself. Not as many Americans are playing soccer and Tennis as the rest of the world, of course we'll be at a disadvantage for that.

And we're still winning the Olympics every time. In summary, :rolleyes:

[birddog]

i really think we can get out of our group with 4 points, as long as the draw is not against italy. we have to beat italy and atleast tie ghana. and, obviously hope the czechs beat italy.

[TUSooner]

Reagrding the export of sports from Britain - I think we rascally Americans have always had more of a rugby mentality. so our footbal evolved from that straoin of Brit sports. Interestingly - or not :D - cricket was very popular in the US until about the Civl War. I did some research into newspaers in 1859, and, aside from horse racing, cricklet was the sport, although there was also a good bit of baseball, with rules we'd barely recognize today. New Orleans had 2 cricket teams, and when the English cricket all-stars toured Canada and the northeast, they were very big deal. They also killed the Canadian and America sides, so they divided up the English team and mixed in the Americans to have evenly matched sides. How and why baseball eclipsed cricket after the CW, I don't know. I;m sure the evolution of Amrican foorball is well documented, but I'm ignernt.

[Sooner95]

With the way Italy attacked today and the way we "played" today...I'm not holding out much hope. I know we can do it, but we'd have to improve on our play 200% to have a chance. Hopefully the guys play with emotion on Saturday. That's the first step.


Totally agree, their backs are up against it and they know it. Ghana is the cellar team in this Pool, so they cannot expect them to knock off Czech. I am wondering if perhaps this team was overhyped abit based on the suprising quaterfinal run back in 2000. Course didnt help their Pool draw was one of the toughest around, but you have to beat the best at this stage.

[snp]

Even as we've clearly lost our edge at basketball and baseball, we still arguably have the best professional leagues in those sports. I don't think we would get as excited at watching a very good professional soccer league that is still below the English Premier League.

Arguably? Uh, no. DEFINATELY. Not even close. That's why Hollis Price and Traber and others that aren't good enough for the NBA or MLB go elsewhere.




3. This is more of a personal opinion but I like strength, size, speed, quickness, coordination to all play major roles in the sports I watch. I don't see strength and size being big keys to soccer.

Then you didn't watch the game today. The bigger Czech team dominated us physically and just about on every jump ball. Their 6'7 forward manhandled our long time defender Eddie Pope on the goal, and was giving our back line trouble all day. Size matters, but not as much as an OL or something.

[birddog]

from the looks of the last handful of games we played, yes, we are overrated. i bought into it because collectively i think it is the best team we've put out there. however, let's give the czechs some credit. they are friggin talented, no question about it. i think our big mistake was having convey on the left and beasley on the right. also, i think we're missing cobi jones and clint mathis more than we thought. i think we should go with clint dempsey next game. there will be some significant changes, no doubt.

[Sooner95]

i really think we can get out of our group with 4 points, as long as the draw is not against italy. we have to beat italy and atleast tie ghana. and, obviously hope the czechs beat italy.

To me if they beat Italy, they will beat Ghana. Wont matter who wins Czech/Italy then.

I am going on that Ghana will not wina game in this pool. Of course their is the possibility of having 3 2-1 team then, tie breakers is goals scored?

[TUSooner]

i'm looking forward to brazil-croatia. i think we'll see a tight game there. france...well, we'll see if they can finish this wc. i don't think the swiss will pose much of a problem.
Me, I'm eagerly anticipating that scintillating matchup between S Korea and Togo! :rolleyes: Actually, it might be pretty fun, wuth neither side have much to lose and a lot to prove

[snp]

tie breakers is goals scored?

Goal differential. Not good for us already.

[birddog]

johnson-S
mcbride-S
donovan-Attacking Mid
beasley-Left Mid
dempsey-Right Mid
reyna-Center Mid
mastroeni-"Stopper"
cherundolo-Left back
onyewu-Center Back
pope-Right Back

[Scott D]

ok I'm gonna try to cover a lot of ground in this post.

TU, Arena won't take the blame for Beasley's poor performance. Beasley is a left footed player who plays on the left side of the field. What Arena was thinking putting him on the right side is beyond me. That side is Clint Dempsey's area....and Onyewu should have been marking Koller, not Pope...Onyewu only gives up about 3" in height as compared to Pope giving up about half a foot.

Beet, soccer/footy/football/futbol hasn't taken off in the public consciousness like the other sports because of a) a superiority complex b) because we had a huge lull where we flat out sucked at the sport (mainly because the best athletes were being steered toward our more 'traditional' sports). Back in the early 30s we fielded very good teams. We're likely not really a top 10 team as we are currently rated, however we have gotten more talented and skilled as we've come along lately.

As it was referred to earlier in the thread....the 'wake up call' we got from the Czechs has to do with the fact that we play cupcake (mostly) friendlies in preparation for serious national team matches. The catch-22 with that is that if we say make a run in Friendlies of Brazil, Germany, Sweden, and France..and we go 0-4 in that run, then things go bad in the American psyche. Basically we're not pushing ourselves, and our toughest opponent on a regular basis is Mexico.

When played correctly soccer is a beautiful game. The problem is that most people 'get stuck' watching the Italian version of the game which is defense first, plodding, diving, and slowing things down.

Oh and Homey, I think that this Nike push with 'Joga Bonito' (portugese for Play Beautiful)and the 3 on 3 tournaments with tiny goals and no goalies. The more kids we get playing the style required in that increases the skill level of the kids and the potential they have to get better at the game, and in turn make our country get better.

as it stands, 90% of our best players play in Europe right now...if the MLS got the support it deserved, then we'd have more home grown talent developing here. For as badly as it's done, the MLS has been huge in the proliferation of soccer in this country, whether the people in certain areas of the country want to acknowledge that or not.

I've had the advantage of seeing the Brazilian National Team practice...if you saw things these guys can do with the ball you'd be amazed. Hell the best player in the world Ronaldinho got his start playing soccer on the beach, and indoors before he ever set foot on a regulation soccer pitch.

Oh, and last bit...Italy was as disappointing as I expected them to be. They are going to be plodding, and do just enough to win.

[TUSooner]

ok I'm gonna try to cover a lot of ground in this post.

TU, Arena won't take the blame for Beasley's poor performance. Beasley is a left footed player who plays on the left side of the field. What Arena was thinking putting him on the right side is beyond me. That side is Clint Dempsey's area....and Onyewu should have been marking Koller, not Pope...Onyewu only gives up about 3" in height as compared to Pope giving up about half a foot...

I gladly defer to your better knowledge on that. I had heard that Beasley belongs on the left. And my understanding is that Onyewu is our strongest most physical defender, so I like him in the middle, especially if the opponent has a hulk up front.

[snp]

TU, Arena won't take the blame for Beasley's poor performance. Beasley is a left footed player who plays on the left side of the field. What Arena was thinking putting him on the right side is beyond me. That side is Clint Dempsey's area....and Onyewu should have been marking Koller, not Pope...Onyewu only gives up about 3" in height as compared to Pope giving up about half a foot.

Agreed with Beasley, disagreed about Onyewu. He was marking Koller most of the time except for that goal. He came out to cut down on the angle and got beat. The rest of the time he was marked up against Koller.

[TUSooner]

Agreed with Beasley, disagreed about Onyewu. He was marking Koller most of the time except for that goal. He came out to cut down on the angle and got beat. The rest of the time he was marked up against Koller.
I didn't even notice that.

[GottaHavePride]

Soccer on TV is not conducive to American advertising. There's no commercial breaks except for halftime so a lot of advertisers aren't going to waste money on it.

This is key right here. Why are the NFL, NBA, and MLB successful? TV coverage (NASCAR can also go in this category). What drives TV coverage? Advertising money. All the companies dumping money into those sports because those sports market themselves well and so impact a lot of potential customers. Start putting ads in every timeout, all over the fields and courts, uniforms (NASCAR is a prime example here - hence why it is the fastest growing sport out there). Then the media becomes interested in pushing those sports because the media is - guess what - financed by advertising dollars that want their sports to do well.

Contrast that with soccer - no ads allowed on the field, nets, etc. except for those tiny banners at the very edge of the field. Add that to no stoppage in play for commercials other than halftime - which is strictly limited to 15 minutes (less than football or basketball). Soccer is a very advertising-unfriendly sport. So advertisers don't spend money on it, it doesn't get promoted, and the media doesn't cover it. Seriously, when was the last time you heard ESPN mention MLS in a non-World Cup year? Probably never.

Which is too bad, because - despite my love for American football - there's a sort of purity to soccer in the "hey, all I need to play is a ball, shoes, and shinguards" sense.

[silverwheels]

Seriously, when was the last time you heard ESPN mention MLS in a non-World Cup year? Probably never.

All the time, actually. But I watch MLS whenever possible, despite its lack of quality compared to the top Euro leagues. I still see highlights on SportsCenter.

[snp]

^^^ You're nuts man. They don't even show the scores for MLS in the ticker at the bottom unless it's the playoffs. I watch ESPN probably 3 hours a day and I NEVER see it on.

Point in case, a Tiger vs Devil Rays segment got almost as much time as the breakdown for USA vs Czech. As much as we hate it, ESPN has an incredible amount of influence on sports in this country. If they're not going to run with it, no interest is going to get generated.

We need to sink more time and money into soccer and get the revenues up. More athletes will start to play soccer when they are young because they can succeed in it. A backup CB in arena football probably makes more than a good bit of MLS players, which is sad.

Hell, I hate advertisements as much as the next guy, but we need them. Use more stats and have companies pay for them. "Miller Lights shots on goals" "Viagra's fouls" etc etc. Maybe do a digital graphic advertisement somewhere in space where it won't interfere with the ball.

I don't know, but do something.

[Jeopardude]

They don't even show the scores for MLS in the ticker at the bottom unless it's the playoffs. I watch ESPN probably 3 hours a day and I NEVER see it on.

Point in case, a Tiger vs Devil Rays segment got almost as much time as the breakdown for USA vs Czech. As much as we hate it, ESPN has an incredible amount of influence on sports in this country. If they're not going to run with it, no interest is going to get generated.

This is especially true in our market. Sports radio here is horrendous. They don't like soccer and they're sure to tell you that any time they mention the sport.

[silverwheels]

^^^ You're nuts man. They don't even show the scores for MLS in the ticker at the bottom unless it's the playoffs. I watch ESPN probably 3 hours a day and I NEVER see it on.

You probably blinked at the time, then. :D

[Scott D]

This is key right here. Why are the NFL, NBA, and MLB successful? TV coverage (NASCAR can also go in this category). What drives TV coverage? Advertising money. All the companies dumping money into those sports because those sports market themselves well and so impact a lot of potential customers. Start putting ads in every timeout, all over the fields and courts, uniforms (NASCAR is a prime example here - hence why it is the fastest growing sport out there). Then the media becomes interested in pushing those sports because the media is - guess what - financed by advertising dollars that want their sports to do well.

Contrast that with soccer - no ads allowed on the field, nets, etc. except for those tiny banners at the very edge of the field. Add that to no stoppage in play for commercials other than halftime - which is strictly limited to 15 minutes (less than football or basketball). Soccer is a very advertising-unfriendly sport. So advertisers don't spend money on it, it doesn't get promoted, and the media doesn't cover it. Seriously, when was the last time you heard ESPN mention MLS in a non-World Cup year? Probably never.

Which is too bad, because - despite my love for American football - there's a sort of purity to soccer in the "hey, all I need to play is a ball, shoes, and shinguards" sense.

The counter to that is that teams are allowed to have corporate sponsorship deals which involve the sponsor's name being plastered on their jersey....examples.

Manchester United's deal with Vodafone

http://www.carling.com/media/player_images/player-image-102908.jpg

Michael Owen and Alan Shearer in this past season's away kits (uniforms) for Newcastle United

http://www.sport.telegraph.co.uk/sport/graphics/2005/12/24/ufnnew24.jpg

Shearer in a previous season..notice the different logo

http://www.allsports.com/fapremiership/newcastleunited/images/shearer.gif

[Scott D]

Agreed with Beasley, disagreed about Onyewu. He was marking Koller most of the time except for that goal. He came out to cut down on the angle and got beat. The rest of the time he was marked up against Koller.

I'll defer on that since I wasn't able to watch the game due to work...but it sounds like Onyewu did the job on Koller all match other than his singular drift which resulted in the first goal.

As much as I like Eddie Pope (and he got a raw deal on his opportunity to play in England) he's at the same stage now that Lalas and Balboa were at during 2002, this is more than definitely his last run in a World Cup on the National Team.

Another interesting point that people 'may' want to be interested in....provided the MLS can stay afloat....there is about a 60% chance that David Beckham's next contract will be with a MLS team (read: New York) to try and help spread the exposure of the MLS and soccer on a professional level in this country. It could have a bigger impact than Wayne Gretzky when he was traded from Edmonton to Los Angeles.

[TUSooner]

Well, I'm working at the office today, but it's OK because I couldn't really pay attention to the games yesterday when I was working at home. I'm recording the games, just in case I decide I need to see one. I wouldn't want to miss that Togo-S Korea battle; I wonder if Togo's coach has shown up?
Carry on!

[BeetDigger]

There's several reasons, and some of them have already been discussed.

Saying since it's been around since 1863 doesn't matter. Lacrosse and squash have been around forever, but they're still not popular. Longetivity doesn't equal success.

True, so the lack of popularity in the US is due to something else. That is what I was trying to figure out. All the responses, yours included, have done a good job of helping me understand the lack of popularity in the US, in spite of the huge popularity it enjoys in the US as the kid level.





ok I'm gonna try to cover a lot of ground in this post.

Beet, soccer/footy/football/futbol hasn't taken off in the public consciousness like the other sports because of a) a superiority complex b) because we had a huge lull where we flat out sucked at the sport (mainly because the best athletes were being steered toward our more 'traditional' sports). Back in the early 30s we fielded very good teams. We're likely not really a top 10 team as we are currently rated, however we have gotten more talented and skilled as we've come along lately.

I think that you hit on a number of factors of why it isn't popular here. I didn't realize it was so popular here in the past.



Reagrding the export of sports from Britain - I think we rascally Americans have always had more of a rugby mentality. so our footbal evolved from that straoin of Brit sports. Interestingly - or not :D - cricket was very popular in the US until about the Civl War. I did some research into newspaers in 1859, and, aside from horse racing, cricklet was the sport, although there was also a good bit of baseball, with rules we'd barely recognize today. New Orleans had 2 cricket teams, and when the English cricket all-stars toured Canada and the northeast, they were very big deal. They also killed the Canadian and America sides, so they divided up the English team and mixed in the Americans to have evenly matched sides. How and why baseball eclipsed cricket after the CW, I don't know. I;m sure the evolution of Amrican foorball is well documented, but I'm ignernt.

I didn't know about the history of British sports in the US. Thanks. Interesting stuff.


One other point that I should make is that I should separate popularity with competiveness. The sport isn't that popular in the US (relative to other sports in the US and relative to the popularity in other countries). But the US is pretty competitive in the sport. I know that we haven't won the World Cup in mens, but how many countries are rabid about the sport and yet can't claim a WC title? The US IS in the WC. Many other countries, where it is popular, can't claim that. I have to say that on a world stage, the US is reasonably competitive. No, we aren't among the elite but we are still pretty good.

[Dr.Quack]

An exciting tournament is under way, and the man who started this thread has shared his regrets that the topic has strayed. Let's refocus. I thought Togo and Korea played a thrilling match until the Koreans cynically decided to slow things down up 2-1 with ten minutes left. Even then, there were some elegant attacks for both sides.

Please start a "sociology of American sport spectatorship" thread and discuss the game's popularity or lack thereof in that thread. That could be an interesting discussion, it's just a different topic that's tiresome for soccer fans. Imagine if every time you wanted to discuss the thing you love, you had to wade through a parallel discussion questioning that thing's legitimacy. I'm not trying to be disrespectful to those posters who have changed the subject. I'm just asking for a break from that familiar discussion just one month out of every four years.

[Scott D]

Korea was very beneficial of the red card that Togo got....being a man down just sapped them.

France should win with a strong performance...I'd expect Henry to get at least 1 goal.

The only question with Brazil later on is how many they'll win by ;)

[Jeopardude]

Check out my new signature :D

[Dr.Quack]

I was favoring Togo to win and regreted that red card very much. It was really a second yellow leading to a red, and sad to say, was richly earned. In the heat of the moment, the Togolese defender didn't keep his head. He should have let the attacker go. Something may have gone haywire. Of course hind sight is 20/20. He didn't know Lee was going to bury that gorgeous free kick. But with a yellow already, and frankly, African players never seem to get any breaks when it comes to awarding cards; he needed to be more cautious. I hate Tommy Smyth's comment about African teams being error prone in World Cup finals action, but you do see it all too often.

Oh yeah, and the Togolese coach did show up. He was grandstanding to get his national federation to pay his players properly. If I quit my job, they start looking for my replacement (and certain OU administrators rejoice). But some cultures have a more theatrical sensibility than our more stolid and bureaucratic outlook. If I were Togolese coach, I'd quit fairly often just to get the word "Togolese" onto the ESPN bottom line more often.

[Dr.Quack]

Jeopardude, I like the old signature about the stoner and the sex cult.

[snp]

Am I alone in not liking that two yellows = 1 red during group play? Maybe bump it up to 3 yellows. You can get two yellows way too easy.

[BeetDigger]

An exciting tournament is under way, and the man who started this thread has shared his regrets that the topic has strayed. Let's refocus. I thought Togo and Korea played a thrilling match until the Koreans cynically decided to slow things down up 2-1 with ten minutes left. Even then, there were some elegant attacks for both sides.

Please start a "sociology of American sport spectatorship" thread and discuss the game's popularity or lack thereof in that thread. That could be an interesting discussion, it's just a different topic that's tiresome for soccer fans. Imagine if every time you wanted to discuss the thing you love, you had to wade through a parallel discussion questioning that thing's legitimacy. I'm not trying to be disrespectful to those posters who have changed the subject. I'm just asking for a break from that familiar discussion just one month out of every four years.


Sorry, I will go back, like most Americans, to ignoring the sport. Excuse me for actually taking a semi interest in the sport and this thread. The four of you who actually CARE about soccer can have the thread and talk about the stupid theatrics that displayed by well conditioned athletes who "writhe" on the ground in pain as they get "tackled" by an opponent. The pureness of the sport and the fine tactics of "finding space" and "attacking" is lost on us non-intellectuals.

[snp]

Dude, don't be a prick about it. Quack brings up a great point. Everytime a soccer fan in America wants to discuss it, it degrades into why soccer sucks. Although it hasn't yet, and you did pose a very fair question, we're just asking you to take it to another thread.

And he asked very nicely. No need to become pretentious towards soccer.

[TUSooner]

Sorry, I will go back, like most Americans, to ignoring the sport. Excuse me for actually taking a semi interest in the sport and this thread. The four of you who actually CARE about soccer can have the thread and talk about the stupid theatrics that displayed by well conditioned athletes who "writhe" on the ground in pain as they get "tackled" by an opponent. The pureness of the sport and the fine tactics of "finding space" and "attacking" is lost on us non-intellectuals.

I see.

[snp]

Edit: I saw your ninja, edit TU ;)

Edit2: And you saw mine. Well played.

[Scott D]

Korea did make it to the semi finals in 2002 before Germany beat them....they can be a hard team to read...and a lot of people underestimated them in 2002.

[TUSooner]

Korea did make it to the semi finals in 2002 before Germany beat them....they can be a hard team to read...and a lot of people underestimated them in 2002.

It sounds like my recorded S Korea and Togo might be worth a look after all. I really thought the Africans would handle things easily. I evidently underestimated the Koreans.

[Scott D]

oh and on a side note....as bad as things have been for US Soccer...we never had a feast to famine situation like France did when they won the World Cup in 98 and then went goalless and finished last in the 2002 World Cup

[BeetDigger]

Dude, don't be a prick about it. Quack brings up a great point. Everytime a soccer fan in America wants to discuss it, it degrades into why soccer sucks. Although it hasn't yet, and you did pose a very fair question, we're just asking you to take it to another thread.

And he asked very nicely. No need to become pretentious towards soccer.


Umm, you might check out who's being the prick. I'm sorry that I feigned interest. I was actually asking something and being pretty nice about it. Others (gdc for example) were attacking the sport. A freaking nOOb tells people to discuss the topic at hand - pretty funny. If you don't like certain posts, ignore them and don't respond to them. It's not really that difficult now, is it? You boys can now go back to discussing on your terms. I sure won't clog the thread up with questions about tactics or rules.

[TUSooner]

oh and on a side note....as bad as things have been for US Soccer...we never had a feast to famine situation like France did when they won the World Cup in 98 and then went goalless and finished last in the 2002 World Cup
No. We get some nice leftovers in the kitchen 2002 and eat out the dumpster in '06?
:D

[Scott D]

the halftime score surprizes me in this one....I didn't see if Henry came back before the end of the half...they'll miss him up front if he can't continue, especially since they lost Cisse to a broken leg in their last friendly before the cup.

Zidane was starting to play a bit more creatively as time worn down...France needs him to step up big, the rest of the team is kind of standing around waiting for him to do something.

[Scott D]

No. We get some nice leftovers in the kitchen 2002 and eat out the dumpster in '06?
:D

if we go 0 and 3 with no ties in this opening round I hope Bruce Arena gets fired.

[King Crimson]

if we go 0 and 3 with no ties in this opening round I hope Bruce Arena gets fired.

he wasn't exactly mr. charisma on the bench yesterday.

looked like he was on methodone or had swallowed a frog.

[Scott D]

he always looks like that :)

[Dr.Quack]

These internet boards are always testy. I didn't mean to be offensive, especially as a "freaking nOOb" although at age 42 I kind of like that status. Chalk my comments up to frustration over the ubiquity of non-soccer discussion we few fans endure when trying to discuss soccer. Okay, I'll try to take a stab at Beet Digger's question about our country's lack of interest. We're an insular society that dislikes being compared to the world. We call our national titles "World" this and "World" that without giving the world a chance to compete. We often pride ourselves on our ignorance when it comes to the rest of the world. How many Americans can name world leaders, speak a foreign language with facility, or pay close attention to foreign cultural and sporting events? We are the exception in the industrialized world in all those things. Don't get me wrong, I've lived abroad and consider myself an American through and through with a strong preference for living here. But we do often pride ourselves on remaining aloof from the world. It's deep in our culture and dates back to the founding when a nation of immigrants took pleasure in shedding the homeland to start fresh here. That's my best try at Beet Digger's question.

[Scott D]

this current game going on now makes me go....wow.

[TUSooner]

this current game going on now makes me go....wow.

This thread is not so fun when I can't watch the games.

And FWIW: I get the point about frustration over soccer's "legitimacy" always being questioned; I lashed out about it a day or 2 ago. But I think BeetDigger got a bum rap - nothing malicious, but he was fouled and deserves a free kick, er... post or something. His discussion was an interesting digression during a lull in the action. That's all.
And now, back to business...

[silverwheels]

France looked bad today. Switzerland isn't exactly a cellar dweller, but Les Bleus still should have beaten them.

[BeetDigger]

These internet boards are always testy. I didn't mean to be offensive, especially as a "freaking nOOb" although at age 42 I kind of like that status. Chalk my comments up to frustration over the ubiquity of non-soccer discussion we few fans endure when trying to discuss soccer. Okay, I'll try to take a stab at Beet Digger's question about our country's lack of interest. We're an insular society that dislikes being compared to the world. We call our national titles "World" this and "World" that without giving the world a chance to compete. We often pride ourselves on our ignorance when it comes to the rest of the world. How many Americans can name world leaders, speak a foreign language with facility, or pay close attention to foreign cultural and sporting events? We are the exception in the industrialized world in all those things. Don't get me wrong, I've lived abroad and consider myself an American through and through with a strong preference for living here. But we do often pride ourselves on remaining aloof from the world. It's deep in our culture and dates back to the founding when a nation of immigrants took pleasure in shedding the homeland to start fresh here. That's my best try at Beet Digger's question.

Listen Quack - I appreciate the reply, but it is not necessary. I could care less if anyone replied - I certainly wouldn't have taken it personally if no one would have. As a nOOb, you should know that these threads go in hundreds of different directions on these boards. Telling people what they can discuss in a thread is pretty uppity. I took the opportunity the one time that occurs every four years that people in the country actually pay attention to soccer to ask my question. I suspect that after this Saturday, barring a huge upset, the USA will go back to being pretty ambivilent about soccer. At that point, any soccer thread will generate about four replies, and two of those will be off topic. Just like the responses ESPN got last week when they showed some college kid scoring a goal from mid-field - everyone went "Gee, that was cool. Now get to the basketball highlights."

[GrapevineSooner]

Telling people what they can discuss in a thread is pretty uppity.
Especially coming from somebody with a post count that's barely reached the double digits. ;)

Just sayin' Quack.

[TUSooner]

Listen Quack - I appreciate the reply, but it is not necessary. I couldn't care less if anyone replied ....
fixed

How many times do I have to tell everybody, it's "couldN'T" care less.
buhhhhhhh !!
<shakes head>

[Fugue]

fixed

How many times do I have to tell everybody, it's "couldN'T" care less.
buhhhhhhh humbug!!
<shakes head>

you're crotchety :eddie:
;)

[snp]

At first I didn't like Foudy doing the World Cup Live but she's really impressed me. She comes off as less cocky as Eric W. But where' Alexi? :mad:


words words words


LEAAAVE THIS THREAD.

Espically if you're going to spout this sh*t in spek
Fock off dork.

Take a hike, bub. We don't care what you think about soccer anymore. As for thinking I'm a dork, yea, right. :rolleyes:

[silverwheels]

Brazil vs. Croatia on next. This should be good. :)

[snp]

Brazil wins 3-1.

I'm sure it'll be less, but I want to see some goals damnit.

Edit: I'm putting off looking for jobs for this, damnit. Quick, someone hire me PT for the summer in Norman. Save me.

[BeetDigger]

fixed

How many times do I have to tell everybody, it's "couldN'T" care less.
buhhhhhhh !!
<shakes head>


You want to go back and fix all of my spelling errors too? There are lots of them. :rolleyes:

[TUSooner]

You want to go back and fix all of my spelling errors too? There are lots of them. :rolleyes:
I doubt it. The only perosn who ytpes worse than me is doleo, and that's only because I usually go back and try to fix mine. :O

[Scott D]

the France result was just bad....they stood around waiting for Zidane to do something, Henry played about what I'd expect from him, but he's best when he's got someone to deliver him the ball. I'm glad he was able to come back and play.

So far in the first 5 minutes Brazil has controlled the ball a majority of the time.

[snp]

And Ronaldino has already juked out a few guys.

[TUSooner]

the France result was just bad....they stood around waiting for Zidane to do something, Henry played about what I'd expect from him, but he's best when he's got someone to deliver him the ball. I'm glad he was able to come back and play.

So far in the first 5 minutes Brazil has controlled the ball a majority of the time.
I am very aggravated that I can't watch. :mad: And I know I can't make it home tonight to watch the DVR without hearing or seeing the final score before I get there.
So I might as well stick around here with you patheticaly small group of fans of this loser gay commie sport. :rolleyes:
I predict 2-1 Brazil, but if they get hot, it could be 4-1.
I don't even really like Brazil, but they are too good not to watch.

[snp]

You're missing a good game already.

[TUSooner]

You're missing a good game already.
thanks

[BeetDigger]

At first I didn't like Foudy doing the World Cup Live but she's really impressed me. She comes off as less cocky as Eric W. But where' Alexi? :mad:




LEAAAVE THIS THREAD.

Espically if you're going to spout this sh*t in spek

Take a hike, bub. We don't care what you think about soccer anymore. As for thinking I'm a dork, yea, right. :rolleyes:


So you feel the self importance to tell others where they can post? Ahh, right. Read TU's statments above. You're the one, along with Quack, who overreacted. I tried to actually discuss the topic. Go to a board where people care about soccer if you want to talk about it with a bunch of serious folks. Don't go telling people here what they should care about and how they should post. Check out the thread in the South Oval if you want an idea about the feelings regarding soccer.

[TUSooner]

So you feel the self importance to tell others where they can post? Ahh, right. Read TU's statments above. You're the one, along with Quack, who overreacted. I tried to actually discuss the topic. Go to a board where people care about soccer if you want to talk about it with a bunch of serious folks. Don't go telling people here what they should care about and how they should post. Check out the thread in the South Oval if you want an idea about the feelings regarding soccer.

let it go

[TUSooner]

And Ronaldino has already juked out a few guys.
I'll bet. :D

[TUSooner]

This link is not the worst way to keep up. You get a little BBC commentary mixed in as well.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2006/4852868.stm

[snp]

This message is hidden because BeetDigger is on your ignore list.

Yawn.

Brazil is playing their usual suspect defense. Croatia has had some decent chances so far.

[TUSooner]

Brazil is playing their usual suspect defense.
I guess that's just another way they add excitement - they let the other team play, too.

[Scott D]

I'd wager that Brazil's back four are the oldest back four of any side in the WC.....They've cleared most every break that the Croatians have had though..

God, nobody does a heel kick pass like Ronaldinho....he's poetry in motion.

on a side note, you guys should go see Barca play in Houston...I never regretted seeing Newcastle United play the Columbus Crew in Columbus.

[colleyvillesooner]

God, nobody does a heel kick pass like Ronaldinho....he's poetry in motion.
Too bad it doesn't really translate on the GameCast. :(

[Scott D]

you shoulda tivo'd this game :P

[silverwheels]

Niiiiice shot by Kaka. 1-0 Brazil.

[Scott D]

great passing leads to a goal by Kaka with a great shot from just outside the box... 1-0 Brazil in the 44th min.

[snp]

Cool, I got to see a goal before I'm heading out.

Croatia is doing better than most probably thought, good for them.

[birddog]

1-0 brazil wins. typical brazilian win. ronaldo looked fat. there was alot of flair by the brazilians and the croatins looked like they could get theu the group too. decent game to end the day. kaka's goal was a cracker.

[GottaHavePride]

Croatian fan ran on the field, left the ones in the stands to try to burn the place down. All in all, a fun game to watch. :D Ronadinho and Robinho are just unbelievably fluid with the ball. And somehow Dida was always in position to make the save without hardly moving - just effortless goalkeeping.

[silverwheels]

Brazil just seemed like they were going through the motions...and they still won.


This team is going to be very, very hard to beat.

[Scott D]

Ronaldo may find himself on the bench sooner rather than later...Robinho brings such pace to the front despite being so small.

[Jeopardude]

Brazil's loaded with talent, but Croatia had their opportunities. Even though I love to root for the underdog, the obvious joy Brazil takes in playing and their concept of teamwork really does make them a joy to watch.

How did the Croatian fans smuggle in those flares? Those were frightening along with their weird two-note song make them tmy favorite fans so far.

And I loved how the announcers were saying about the guy who ran on the field, "the camera's not showing this fan to not encourage this behavior" and then it cut to the fan walking over the barricades.:rolleyes:

[BeetDigger]

Oh, in case anyone missed it - Dan Patrick discussed the lack of interest that the US has in soccer today on his show and what it will take for people in the US to care about the sport, beyond providing exercise to their kids that is. Sorry, I should have just waited to listen to his show rather than "clogging" up this thread with it. The consensus is that it will continue to lag behind pro bowling and college lacrosse. Amazingly, they show pro paintball more than they show soccer on ESPN. Soccer seems to have its work cut out for it in the US.

[Dr.Quack]

The Brasilian coach said he hadn't seen anything in the tournament so far to make him worried. I wonder if his side's performance today would have worried the coaches of Holland, the Czech Republic, Argentina, or Italy. There will be some thrilling matches with Brasil down the road. I agree with Scott D that Ronaldo/Robinho provides the coach a difficult contrast. The young man had more today than the older. It's almost impossible to bench a legend, but Brasil has a bench of legends-in-waiting. If they change and lose, it's a national disgrace. If they don't change and lose... The pressure is always on to win, but for Brasil it's worse because they have to win and win beautifully to please their fans and the world. Did you see the Croatians in the stands after the match? What a beautiful sight. What other team finds its opponent's fans celebrating a 0-1 loss afterwards? Only one.

[Jeopardude]

Sorry, I should have just waited to listen to his show rather than "clogging" up this thread with it.

Apology accepted.:D

[birddog]

they are replaying the brazil-croatia game on the U. 5 minutes in.

[birddog]

Oh, in case anyone missed it - Dan Patrick discussed the lack of interest that the US has in soccer today on his show and what it will take for people in the US to care about the sport, beyond providing exercise to their kids that is. Sorry, I should have just waited to listen to his show rather than "clogging" up this thread with it. The consensus is that it will continue to lag behind pro bowling and college lacrosse. Amazingly, they show pro paintball more than they show soccer on ESPN. Soccer seems to have its work cut out for it in the US.
you seem to want to get a jab in every chance you get. there are over a billion of people in the world who do care, i'm one of those people along with a few here.
golden boot winner this time: riquelme?
gerrard?
rosicky?
too early to tell but it's fun to speculate.

[birddog]

also, brazil has not lost a cup opener since the '30's.

[silverwheels]

golden boot winner this time: riquelme?
gerrard?
rosicky?
too early to tell but it's fun to speculate.

I'm hoping for Robben, myself.

[birddog]

I'm hoping for Robben, myself.
that dude's a burner. i love pulling for the dutch.

[birddog]

i'm able to sit back and enjoy this brazil side now. they had plenty of chances in the first 15 mins. more than the u.s. had the whole game. bastages.

[Scott D]

The Brasilian coach said he hadn't seen anything in the tournament so far to make him worried. I wonder if his side's performance today would have worried the coaches of Holland, the Czech Republic, Argentina, or Italy. There will be some thrilling matches with Brasil down the road. I agree with Scott D that Ronaldo/Robinho provides the coach a difficult contrast. The young man had more today than the older. It's almost impossible to bench a legend, but Brasil has a bench of legends-in-waiting. If they change and lose, it's a national disgrace. If they don't change and lose... The pressure is always on to win, but for Brasil it's worse because they have to win and win beautifully to please their fans and the world. Did you see the Croatians in the stands after the match? What a beautiful sight. What other team finds its opponent's fans celebrating a 0-1 loss afterwards? Only one.

I must admit I have 'cheater' knowledge in that regard....on my Newcastle United squad in Championship Manager 03/04 I have Ronaldo, Robinho, Ronaldinho, and Diego...of those four, Ronaldo comes off of the bench unless I'm resting either Ronaldinho or Diego for a match.

[King Crimson]

also, brazil has not lost a cup opener since the '30's.

that is sick.

[TUSooner]

Help my decide what to do Saturday. I have a choice:

1 - Help some good freinds who are running a softball tournament at the park where my my 2 daughters learned to play soccer & softball. I'd be patrolling softball fields in a golf cart in 95 degree weather, watering, raking, lining, and cleaning up. There's always some good eats, and some nice discrete cold beers.

2- Stay in my air-conditioned house quietly watching 3 World Cup games, including USA vs Italy, while peacefully enjoying the deluxe American Breakfast of bacon eggs, sausage, biscuits, gravy, etc etc. with some not-so-discrete beers close by for later.

#2 is the obvious choice except for that damned "duty calls" thing. On the other hand, my daughters don't play softball anymore and have not played at that park for 2 years.

hmmmmmm

[Scott D]

also, brazil has not lost a cup opener since the '30's.

1934 was wierd though, they went from having groups to single elimination in the first round. But to have won your first match every 4 years since 1950 and the previous WC in 1938 is impressive nonetheless.

Other ironies are that our 1930 team which made it to the semi-finals was loaded with British players because of Britain, Scotland, and Ireland having a dispute with FIFA.

The run we've had since 1990 in terms of qualifying is actually the best the US has been...considering that we had a lull where we missed 10 straight World Cups.

[Cam]

I took the opportunity the one time that occurs every four years that people in the country actually pay attention to soccer to ask my question.
I've been paying attention to it every day for the last 30 odd years. I doubt I'm the only one on this board who's that way. The reason you don't see a lot of soccer fans gushing about it on a daily basis is because of some of the remarks you've seen on this thread. It's like trying to convince an OU or UT fan that the other school really is ok. It's just not worth the effort. Some will get it, some won't.

I love the sport, always have. It made me a much better athlete by improving my conditioning and balance. It paid for my education and also made me some money from coaching. If you read professional athletes bios, you'll find that many of them started out playing soccer as kids.

IMO, the lack of understanding of the game is a huge factor in why it hasn't taken off at the top levels of the sport in the US. Americans like to see goals galore. For me, a 0-0 game can be much more exciting than a 5-0 drubbing. It's the little things that gifted players do that make you appreciate the game. 99% of the people who say they hate soccer couldn't kick a ball 50 yards and land it in a 3 yard circle. Forget about hitting your teammate in stride as he sprints down the opposite sideline. Americans like breaks in their sports. You don't get one in soccer. The average soccer player runs 6-7 miles per game. Overall, Americans are pretty lazy people.

As for having a World Cup every year, that's basically impossible. The WC is one of the very few sporting events where every single country in the world is able to take part in. Doesn't matter how big/small, rich/poor your country is, if you meet FIFA's requirements, you're in.

At the end of the day, there are a lot of different factors as to why the game's not big in the US above the youth level. None of which take away my enjoyment of a good game.

[Scott D]

Ironically I think this new push with the indoor 3 on 3 games using a futsol ball will do nothing but improve the skill level of American kids.

oh yeah, and Cam and I have had a lot of discussions in this forum regarding various European professional leagues.

[Jeopardude]

Help my decide what to do Saturday. I have a choice:

1 - Help some good freinds who are running a softball tournament at the park where my my 2 daughters learned to play soccer & softball. I'd be patrolling softball fields in a golf cart in 95 degree weather, watering, raking, lining, and cleaning up. There's always some good eats, and some nice discrete cold beers.

2- Stay in my air-conditioned house quietly watching 3 World Cup games, including USA vs Italy, while peacefully enjoying the deluxe American Breakfast of bacon eggs, sausage, biscuits, gravy, etc etc. with some not-so-discrete beers close by for later.

#2 is the obvious choice except for that damned "duty calls" thing. On the other hand, my daughters don't play softball anymore and have not played at that park for 2 years.

hmmmmmm
They're not real friends if you can't spell it. :P

[Cam]

I ended up doing work last night and this thread went wayyyy off on a tangent. Go figure.

USA:
Wow, just wow. The most **** poor performances I've seen from our Nat'l team in quite some time. They looked scared from the first whistle. Me thinks they were actually believing their number 5 ranking.... Trinidad & Tobago, Togo, the Ivory Coast all showed more heart than we did.

Quite honestly, I haven't seen anything in the last 2 months in games not played on American soil from our team that makes me think we'll do better than go 3 and out.

Czech Republic:
Damn, these boys are good. Their #2 ranking is very deserving IMO. I think they'll give Italy a whuppin.

Italy:
Looked good at times, looked aweful at times. Pretty typical of the Azzuri. If Totti is indeed fit to play Saturday....

Ghana:
Dem boys are faaaaaaaaast. Essien could very well rip us a new one.

France:
How do you not play Trezeguet?????? Apparently he's a major ***. He's also a major goal scorer. To not at least put him in for the last 20 minutes is a shame. France had their chances and, much like Sweden, just couldn't put the ball away. Much as he did during his time with Man Utd, Barthez makes even the simplest of saves dramatic.

Austrailia:
3 goals in 10 minutes? Are you freaking kidding me? Better to wake up late than not wake up at all.

S Korea/Togo:
A very entertaining game. The African teams are showing they belong on the world stage.

Brazil:
Could've easily been a 3-0 win today. How sad is it that Ronaldo's over the hill already? :(

My top 4 so far:
1) Brazil
2) Argentina / Czech Republic

[Scott D]

I don't think Ronaldo is over the hill, but he's definitely not dedicated and focused on the sport like he should be at this point...it's the equivalent of Bomar showing up on campus this fall 30 lbs overweight. I think unless he improves his shape quickly, Robinho will be starting in his place by the end of group play.

[Cam]

I don't think Ronaldo is over the hill, but he's definitely not dedicated and focused on the sport like he should be at this point...it's the equivalent of Bomar showing up on campus this fall 30 lbs overweight. I think unless he improves his shape quickly, Robinho will be starting in his place by the end of group play.
Yeah, it's fitness more than age for him. Although part of me thinks his body's on the downward spiral. I don't get how having a chance to become one of the greatest scorers in World Cup history wouldn't be motivation enough to come in to the tournament fit.

[C&CDean]

Help my decide what to do Saturday. I have a choice:

1 - Help some good freinds who are running a softball tournament at the park where my my 2 daughters learned to play soccer & softball. I'd be patrolling softball fields in a golf cart in 95 degree weather, watering, raking, lining, and cleaning up. There's always some good eats, and some nice discrete cold beers.

2- Stay in my air-conditioned house quietly watching 3 World Cup games, including USA vs Italy, while peacefully enjoying the deluxe American Breakfast of bacon eggs, sausage, biscuits, gravy, etc etc. with some not-so-discrete beers close by for later.

#2 is the obvious choice except for that damned "duty calls" thing. On the other hand, my daughters don't play softball anymore and have not played at that park for 2 years.

hmmmmmm

Well, I'd go for #2, but right after the all-American breakfast I'd go over to the softball field - cause chalking foul lines in 95 degree heat trumps watching soccer every time.

But I guess the half-dozen or so soccer lovers on SF.com can't be all wrong.....

[birddog]

Well, I'd go for #2, but right after the all-American breakfast I'd go over to the softball field - cause chalking foul lines in 95 degree heat trumps watching soccer every time.

But I guess the half-dozen or so soccer lovers on SF.com can't be all wrong.....
good one.

[GottaHavePride]

My top 4 so far:
1) Brazil
2) Argentina / Czech Republic

I haven't watched every single game (I usually miss the first game of the day, so Imissed Holland and England's first games) but the Aussies looked really good once they woke up. I'd probably put them around 4 or 5 at this point.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Well, I'd go for #2, but right after the all-American breakfast I'd go over to the softball field - cause chalking foul lines in 95 degree heat trumps watching soccer every time.

But I guess the half-dozen or so soccer lovers on SF.com can't be all wrong.....If you can't say something nice... heck with it, it's SOCCER!

[birddog]

quick!! to the world cup thread!! i hate soccer!! we gotta convince them why they should hate it too!
[company's computer guy] MOVE! [company's computer guy].
spain-ukraine. spain just scored in 13 min. this afternoon is germany-poland. another good day today. also be sure to check out the saudi's and tunisia.

[birddog]

spain is up 2-0 in 18th min.

[King Crimson]

Spain doesn't waste any time to open the second half.....scores 3rd goal in first couple minutes. 3-0.

[Dr.Quack]

Watching Spain-Ukraine my only regret is that I'm not there at the stadium sitting next to one of the dozen or so people blowing their brains out on giant kazoos without any seeming relationship to any action on the field. I thought Tunisia had a chance to advance out of this group. Nothing Ukraine showed so far has changed my mind. You want to talk about people not caring about a match, I doubt there's much appetite for Tunisia vs. Saudi Arabia, but my hopes are entirely with the Tunisians. With all the great play coming from African sides, one of them must win their opener.

[BeetDigger]

I've been paying attention to it every day for the last 30 odd years. I doubt I'm the only one on this board who's that way. The reason you don't see a lot of soccer fans gushing about it on a daily basis is because of some of the remarks you've seen on this thread. It's like trying to convince an OU or UT fan that the other school really is ok. It's just not worth the effort. Some will get it, some won't.

I love the sport, always have. It made me a much better athlete by improving my conditioning and balance. It paid for my education and also made me some money from coaching. If you read professional athletes bios, you'll find that many of them started out playing soccer as kids.

IMO, the lack of understanding of the game is a huge factor in why it hasn't taken off at the top levels of the sport in the US. Americans like to see goals galore. For me, a 0-0 game can be much more exciting than a 5-0 drubbing. It's the little things that gifted players do that make you appreciate the game. 99% of the people who say they hate soccer couldn't kick a ball 50 yards and land it in a 3 yard circle. Forget about hitting your teammate in stride as he sprints down the opposite sideline. Americans like breaks in their sports. You don't get one in soccer. The average soccer player runs 6-7 miles per game. Overall, Americans are pretty lazy people.

As for having a World Cup every year, that's basically impossible. The WC is one of the very few sporting events where every single country in the world is able to take part in. Doesn't matter how big/small, rich/poor your country is, if you meet FIFA's requirements, you're in.

At the end of the day, there are a lot of different factors as to why the game's not big in the US above the youth level. None of which take away my enjoyment of a good game.



Cam - nice reply. Don't know why my simple question and discussion regarding it led to a few asshats jumping in to chastise me. So much for one of the "stupid" Americans who knows nothing about the game actually asking an honest question to learn about it. I should just join the majority of folks on this board who bash the game and just say it sucks and leave it at that. You know, I've not made one negative comment about the game. I know that it's a game that involves lots of skill and one must be in great shape to play it. The one thing that no one has answered, and by GOD I am not asking it, is why the game, if it was fairly popular here in the early part of the 20th century, didn't continue to gain in popularity. Football, baseball, even basketball were probably on a similar popularity level with it in the 20's and 30's, way before advertising, TV and such were a part of the game. Yet, it didn't take off but rather regressed. Lamar Hunt wonders the same thing. I doubt if many of you "Soccer" people even realize that he has been the biggest financial supporter of soccer in the US. He has now founded two, or perhaps three, pro leagues here in the US. Yeah, the same Lamar Hunt who owns the KC Chiefs.

[Dr.Quack]

PKs should be a rarity and hard won, but I wonder if the striker in question were a superstar instead of the under-rated Jaziri whether our Australian friend with the whistle would have said "play on." It was by no means the worst tackle in the box, but it wasn't a flop either. Fortunately Jaziri made good a few minutes later. 1-0 Tunisia.

[GottaHavePride]

The one thing that no one has answered, and by GOD I am not asking it, is why the game, if it was fairly popular here in the early part of the 20th century, didn't continue to gain in popularity. Football, baseball, even basketball were probably on a similar popularity level with it in the 20's and 30's, way before advertising, TV and such were a part of the game. Yet, it didn't take off but rather regressed. Lamar Hunt wonders the same thing. I doubt if many of you "Soccer" people even realize that he has been the biggest financial supporter of soccer in the US. He has now founded two, or perhaps three, pro leagues here in the US. Yeah, the same Lamar Hunt who owns the KC Chiefs.

Hmmm. I really think it's at least partly due to advertising support. Partly because Americans are developing shorter attention spans than people had when soccer was popular (case in point - I don't think the average American today could follow the Nixon-Kennedy presidential debates, and that's only about 40 years removed). Oh, and partly because increasing American obesity means fewer people are physically able to play soccer at a level that allows them to grasp the more subtle aspects of strategy in the sport. Oh, and then those attention spans prevent some of the people that could grasp the game despite not playing it from investing the mental effort to figure out the sport.

A lot of reasons.

Oh, and I'm looking forward to Germany/Poland this afternoon.

[GottaHavePride]

Wow, good finish - Tunisia scores again almost literally at the last minute to tie the game 2-2.

[King Crimson]

doesn't sound good....(and as I recall Balboa made the same comment about Beasley on his wrong side repeatedly during teh Czech telecast)

http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news?slug=cnnsi-pickingupthepie&prov=cnnsi&type=lgns

Picking up the pieces
Grant Wahl, SI.com

Grant Wahl
SI.com

BERLIN -- We're 14 games into World Cup '06, and the U.S. still has the distinction of owning the tournament's most lopsided loss, Monday's humiliating 3-0 blowout against the Czech Republic. I was on an insane magazine deadline and didn't get a chance to chime in here ... until now. With a must-win game coming against Italy on Saturday, here's what's on the minds of those in the know around the U.S. camp in Hamburg:

• What is up with DaMarcus Beasley? For the past month the SI cover boy has been a shadow of the relentless 20-year-old who was so dangerous against Portugal in the first game of World Cup '02. Unable to beat anyone on the dribble, Beasley is hampered even more by his placement on the right side, where he's unable to deliver a cross with his right foot.

Yet the most surprising aspect of Beasley's slide has been the way his frustration has bubbled over into biting criticisms of U.S. coach Bruce Arena in the media. A year ago Arena was telling anyone who would listen that Beasley was "our best player." Not long after the U.S. arrived in Germany, however, Beasley began the fireworks by saying he was "irritated" by Arena's unwillingness to reveal his lineup to the team until just before game time. (Arena told me he spoke privately with Beasley about that incident, after which Beasley wasn't made available to the media in the five days before the Czech game.)

Still, Arena decided to stick with Beasley as a starter on Monday, hoping that he could get behind Czech left back Marek Jankulovski while neutralizing the Janky Man's runs on the left side. "Beasley's not in the best form," Arena told me a few days before the game, "but he's a tough bastard in big games."

After Beasley was invisible for almost all of Monday's loss, Arena was blunt in the postgame press conference: "We got nothing out of Beasley." But unlike the other players Arena criticized by name, Beasley zapped right back. "I was back there defending the whole time," Beasley said. "I don't know what he wants me to do." After the U.S. switched to a 3-5-2 formation in the second half, Beasley said, "I was always defending the whole time. That's how the game went. Next time I'll leave the guy and play as a striker instead of a midfielder and then we'll see what happens."

I doubt Beasley is in any danger of getting sent home for his comments, but Arena said on Tuesday that he would probably sit down with Beasley again in the near future. A year after Arena hailed him as his best player, it's highly doubtful that Beasley will be in the lineup against Italy on Saturday.

• An interesting nugget: When the U.S. began its exhaustive scouting of the Czech Republic, Italy and Ghana six months ago, Arena delegated the extensive research on the Czechs to assistant Mooch Myernick and on Ghana to assistant Curt Onalfo. What about Italy? Arena saved that one for himself.

• Arena told me that he didn't start John O'Brien against the Czechs because he knew O'Brien was not fit enough to go 90 minutes and that he didn't want to start the game already one sub down. O'Brien developed a sore back last week, which hindered his training somewhat in the days leading up to the game. He did play 45 minutes, however, and may get the start against Italy.

• Who takes the blame for the Czech debacle? I'm a little surprised that Arena (a huge ACC basketball fan) didn't follow the gospel according to UNC's Roy Williams: When we win the players should get the credit, and when we lose the coach should get the blame (even if the coach doesn't really believe that). Arena didn't announce he was taking the blame for Monday's loss until he was directly asked if he deserved some on Tuesday.

On Monday, Arena had singled out Beasley, Kasey Keller and Landon Donovan for criticism. And early in Tuesday's press conference, Arena once again put the onus on the players: "The reason we lost the game is their players played better than our players," he said. "Individually, they were better and won most of the matchups on the field. At the end of the day, it is about that."

Was there anything else he would have done differently against the Czechs?

"No, actually. I wish we would have played a little better."

Later, though, he was asked how much he and the coaching staff were at fault. "I take all the blame," Arena said. "Check all the boxes. You can blame it all on me. I accept that. Players play a little bit of a role too, but I'm willing to take the big hit on that one."

That's what he said, at least. Does he believe that? I doubt it. But was it something that he probably should have volunteered earlier? You bet.

Got a take on the U.S. as it heads into the Italy game? Send me a note in the Mailbag and chime in on our Cup Blog and Pub blog both before and after the match.

[GDC]

• An interesting nugget: When the U.S. began its exhaustive scouting of the Czech Republic, Italy and Ghana six months ago, Arena delegated the extensive research on the Czechs to assistant Mooch Myernick and on Ghana to assistant Curt Onalfo. What about Italy? Arena saved that one for himself.



I've always had much more fun in Prague than Italy.

[King Crimson]

i hate "clever" headlines....but this one at Yahoo was pretty good:

the Pain from Spain falls Mainly on Ukraine....

[Jeopardude]

You know, I've not made one negative comment about the game.

Uhhhh....


Before my daughter started playing the game, I thought that about 50% of the people that I ran into who were into soccer were total dicks. Now, given my exposure to it both in coaching and on this board, I think that number may be closer to 75%.

Uhhhh....


The four of you who actually CARE about soccer can have the thread and talk about the stupid theatrics that displayed by well conditioned athletes who "writhe" on the ground in pain as they get "tackled" by an opponent. The pureness of the sport and the fine tactics of "finding space" and "attacking" is lost on us non-intellectuals.

Uhhhh....


I'm sorry that I feigned interest.


BeetDigger, you portray yourself as the totally dispassionate observer who just is curious about this sport called "soccer" and wanted to talk about its popularity, but that post where you got in a snit when a poster (who was totally serious about diverging the talk into two threads) said something about the subject totally revealed your motivation. There's a reason it says "World Cup Thread." It'd be like if in the Sooner Football Forum there were no threads and it'd be a 100,000 post free-for-all.

I'm just a dude. There's no way I'm going to answer any question that begins "Why does America...?" Those questions should be rhetorical and there's never a definitive answer.

I'm excited to hear people's takes on the game who know lots more than me. Thanks TUSooner, Cam, Scott D, Dr Quack, birddogbbq and whomever else.

Sorry for this. And I don't want to continue on with this argument. Beet seems like a nice guy and we're all nitpicking. I just couldn't let that "nothing neg" comment go.

[TUSooner]

i hate "clever" headlines....but this one at Yahoo was pretty good:

the Pain from Spain falls Mainly on Ukraine....

heh.
And thanks to the Ukrainians, we no longer have the most lopsdied loss in this WC !

[Scott D]

Late late win for Germany in this one.

[King Crimson]

one minute into stoppage time...

[SoonerDood]

awesome game! GER 1:0 POL

[BeetDigger]

Uhhhh....



Uhhhh....



Uhhhh....




BeetDigger, you portray yourself as the totally dispassionate observer who just is curious about this sport called "soccer" and wanted to talk about its popularity, but that post where you got in a snit when a poster (who was totally serious about diverging the talk into two threads) said something about the subject totally revealed your motivation. There's a reason it says "World Cup Thread." It'd be like if in the Sooner Football Forum there were no threads and it'd be a 100,000 post free-for-all.

I'm just a dude. There's no way I'm going to answer any question that begins "Why does America...?" Those questions should be rhetorical and there's never a definitive answer.

I'm excited to hear people's takes on the game who know lots more than me. Thanks TUSooner, Cam, Scott D, Dr Quack, birddogbbq and whomever else.

Sorry for this. And I don't want to continue on with this argument. Beet seems like a nice guy and we're all nitpicking. I just couldn't let that "nothing neg" comment go.

Not once did I say anything negative about the game. I said negative things about some of the people who are INTO the game, largely based upon personal experiences. This included. Again, sorry to show some interest. I would have liked to ask questions about tactics, players and teams (but alas, that would have ruined the flow of the beauty that has become - WORLD CUP THREAD). Being that now is the one time every four years that soccer is at its high point in popularity here in the US (me included) it seemed like a logical time to ask. If you want negative comments about the game, go look to some of the other posters on the board for their comments. They basically say that Soccer sucks, so I will save you time.

[Scott D]

Just now getting a chance to watch the Spain game because of work.....this may be the year that Spain finds a way to live up to their hype and expectations....talk about underachieving...Spain makes us look like Germany in that regard.

[Scott D]

• Who takes the blame for the Czech debacle? I'm a little surprised that Arena (a huge ACC basketball fan) didn't follow the gospel according to UNC's Roy Williams: When we win the players should get the credit, and when we lose the coach should get the blame (even if the coach doesn't really believe that). Arena didn't announce he was taking the blame for Monday's loss until he was directly asked if he deserved some on Tuesday.

On Monday, Arena had singled out Beasley, Kasey Keller and Landon Donovan for criticism. And early in Tuesday's press conference, Arena once again put the onus on the players: "The reason we lost the game is their players played better than our players," he said. "Individually, they were better and won most of the matchups on the field. At the end of the day, it is about that."

Was there anything else he would have done differently against the Czechs?

"No, actually. I wish we would have played a little better."

Later, though, he was asked how much he and the coaching staff were at fault. "I take all the blame," Arena said. "Check all the boxes. You can blame it all on me. I accept that. Players play a little bit of a role too, but I'm willing to take the big hit on that one."

That's what he said, at least. Does he believe that? I doubt it. But was it something that he probably should have volunteered earlier? You bet.

We know how I feel about the Beasley debacle...but I think the rest of this is telling about Arena, and why he's overrated as a manager/coach. If it had been Dick Advocaat or Bobby Robson, or even Alex Ferguson or Jose Mourinho who had made those comments about the players that's one thing...those men have all won something of importance in the world of soccer..Arena hasn't won squat.

[TUSooner]

We know how I feel about the Beasley debacle...but I think the rest of this is telling about Arena, and why he's overrated as a manager/coach. If it had been Dick Advocaat or Bobby Robson, or even Alex Ferguson or Jose Mourinho who had made those comments about the players that's one thing...those men have all won something of importance in the world of soccer..Arena hasn't won squat.
Well, duhhh...... It's because Sir Alex and Mourinho have better players !

;)

I don't care for Arena's comments, but maybe sometimes a coach has to dump on the players to see if he can get a rise out of them.

[TUSooner]

awesome game! GER 1:0 POL
I would say thanks for SPOILING it, but my daughter who recorded it for me said it was a great game, and I made her tell me the score.
Too bad for the Poles, but they, probably like the USA, made their own mess by pooping in their pants in the opening game.

[Scott D]

oh I take that back...Arena won the MLS title twice with DC United and 5 titles at Virginia in the NCAA's ;)

[GottaHavePride]

Crap. I had to stop watching mid-second half. I forgot I had to teach a lesson today. :O

[Scott D]

you should just get a job with my company GHP...hours are so so and you'd be able to roll with the band gig too :)

[Scott D]

oh and that red card was bull**** on that Ukraine player.

[Dr.Quack]

Too bad for Poland, but the better side did win. But I hoped they would hold on for a draw. The teams today that committed to attacking won and the sides that didn't didn't. As for Tunisia-Saudi Arabia, I was disappointed for the Tunisians. They didn't play well apart from the opening and ending of the match. They got the result they earned. I was hoping for a day when poor Muslims in Africa would have a chance to celebrate at the expense of the Saudi princes. Maybe they'll get another chance in four years. Maybe not.

[Dr.Quack]

Bruce Arena may be trying to get his team to play better by blasting them publicly in the aftermath of a horrific loss, but divorcing himself from the debacle on Monday when everyone knows he made controversial decisions is a grave error his players are not apt to respect. He's the one who moved Beasley in contrast to the player's tendencies. He's the one who didn't start Johnson when we all saw the quality he brings to the pitch. He's the one who stands by Reyna who remains winless in World Cup competition while his extraordinarily successful sub from 2002, a fit and mature player, sits on the bench. I'm never one to turn on the coach or quit a team I love, but Arena tested me these last two days. Arena has done some things for us, and I'm grateful for the nice run in 2002. I'm also just a little tired of watching him on the sidelines as we're getting thumped acting as smug as a man who just ordered a medium-rare steak and a baked potato.

[Cam]

Cam - nice reply. Don't know why my simple question and discussion regarding it led to a few asshats jumping in to chastise me. So much for one of the "stupid" Americans who knows nothing about the game actually asking an honest question to learn about it. I should just join the majority of folks on this board who bash the game and just say it sucks and leave it at that. You know, I've not made one negative comment about the game. I know that it's a game that involves lots of skill and one must be in great shape to play it. The one thing that no one has answered, and by GOD I am not asking it, is why the game, if it was fairly popular here in the early part of the 20th century, didn't continue to gain in popularity. Football, baseball, even basketball were probably on a similar popularity level with it in the 20's and 30's, way before advertising, TV and such were a part of the game. Yet, it didn't take off but rather regressed.
I thought that question was asked and answered already, see ScottD's answer about 5 pages ago.

Considering I wasn't around in the 20's, 30's, 40's, ect, I'm going to have to guess why the sport didn't take off. One of my guesses is immigration from Europe slowed during that period? People were probably a little more concerned with keeping a roof over their head and food on the table during that time? The sheer size of the US versus European countries? You could throw out a hundred different possabilities and each one of them would have validity on some level.

I also can't tell you why somebody would willingly sit for 3 hours watching a baseball game on tv. I played the game for many years and can't stand to watch it on tv. Yet, there are many who pay to get out of market games and watch it every night. For me, "chalking foul lines in 95 degree heat trumps watching baseball every time" as Dean would put it.


Lamar Hunt wonders the same thing. I doubt if many of you "Soccer" people even realize that he has been the biggest financial supporter of soccer in the US. He has now founded two, or perhaps three, pro leagues here in the US. Yeah, the same Lamar Hunt who owns the KC Chiefs.
There's a reason that the US Open Cup trophy is named after him...

[Cam]

I would have liked to ask questions about tactics, players and teams
Ask away dude.

[Dr.Quack]

I would have liked to ask questions about tactics, players and teams (but alas, that would have ruined the flow of the beauty that has become - WORLD CUP THREAD). Being that now is the one time every four years that soccer is at its high point in popularity here in the US (me included) it seemed like a logical time to ask.

I hope you will pose your questions. Allow me to extend a third olive branch. I really didn't mean to be a prick before and wrote initially that I meant no disrespect. I apologize for asking you to start a fresh thread. I honestly didn't know that was a wrong thing to suggest, and now I'm better educated thanks to you.

Any questions or thoughts you have about tactics, players, and teams will likely get a solid answer from wiser heads than mine. You may even get contrasting answers, and that would be very interesting, in my opinion. We're all Sooners here.

[Cam]

We know how I feel about the Beasley debacle...but I think the rest of this is telling about Arena, and why he's overrated as a manager/coach. If it had been Dick Advocaat or Bobby Robson, or even Alex Ferguson or Jose Mourinho who had made those comments about the players that's one thing...those men have all won something of importance in the world of soccer..Arena hasn't won squat.
Arena's gotten too many hand jobs from the USSF to think he can do any wrong. So he won CONCACAF, so what? Name one team in the region that's won a major trophy on the international level. Mexico hasn't. Who else is there???

I haven't gotten to re-watch the Czech game, but I didn't see any reason to single out Keller for bad play. If you want to critisize him for the 30 yarder, I can see why. I think it was just a screamer of a shot that he nearly got. The other two goals were plain and simple crappy defense. There's not a hell of a lot more a goalie could've done on those.

[Cam]

oh and that red card was bull**** on that Ukraine player.
Yeah, that was crap. Spain deserved the 3 points and looked like world beaters today. Let's see if they can keep that up or not. Ukraine better figure out what they're going to do on offense if they want to even hope to get out of pool play.

Germany/Poland was a damn good game from what I was able to see. It's refreshing to see so much attacking soccer on the international stage for a change.

[Dr.Quack]

I haven't gotten to re-watch the Czech game, but I didn't see any reason to single out Keller for bad play.

If you detect anything on rewatching, I'd like to hear about it. Keller seemed perfectly fine to me. To have made a difference in the outcome, Keller would have needed to stop all three of those goals. No keeper is going to do that, in fact, I don't think there's a keeper in the tournament who would have stopped any of them. If Arena is criticizing some goal kicks or minor decisions Keller made, those seem like silly things to fixate on when so much else went so badly wrong in every other phase of the game.

[Scott D]

If you detect anything on rewatching, I'd like to hear about it. Keller seemed perfectly fine to me. To have made a difference in the outcome, Keller would have needed to stop all three of those goals. No keeper is going to do that, in fact, I don't think there's a keeper in the tournament who would have stopped any of them. If Arena is criticizing some goal kicks or minor decisions Keller made, those seem like silly things to fixate on when so much else went so badly wrong in every other phase of the game.

I think it goes back to the fact that Arena feels that he can't do any wrong. Since 1998 he's been portrayed as the 'Saviour of American Soccer' since people considered Steve Sampson's run to be the worst ever...got to love the short memories of Americans who ignored the fact that for 40 years we didn't even sniff qualifying.

I'm willing to bet we could get a top notch European to coach this team.

[Scott D]

oh..Tommy Smyth says the rumors have been that Ronaldo has been having problems with blisters on his feet.

[Cam]

I wish Tommy Smyth was the commentator for all the games. Dude cracks me up.

Watching the Germany/Poland game a little closer, Germany could've easily won by 3.

[Scott D]

He was jeered off the field when he was substituted, and the reception from the critics was no less hostile. The former World Cup striker Tostao wrote: "Brazil... only improved when Robinho came on for Ronaldo, who was slow and weird", while Juca Kfouri, one of Brazil's best-known columnists, wrote, "You felt sorry for Ronaldo... Parreira should take him out of the team, to preserve his reputation if nothing else. It was a torture to see him like a wobbling heavyweight, staggering around the pitch as if what was going on around had nothing to do with him. To control a simple ball seemed a Herculean task."

Another columnist, Fernando Calazans, also criticised his similarly under-performing strike partner Adriano: "The two looked as if they were having a wander around the garden. How on earth do you challenge for a World Cup like that?

and people think our media can be harsh...

[TUSooner]

I'm learning a lot from this thread. Unfortunately, the main thing I'm learning is that working causes one to miss some good matches. :(
I may try to swing a long lunch to watch the 3-Lion bunch.
I haven't been able to watch too many matches carefully enough to notice individual performances, and I'm really not familiar with very many international players, even the Americans. I recognize some of the EPL players, but that's about it. So I appreciate hearing about these things from you aficionadoes of the professional game.
I've also noticed that soccer on TV suffers from the same drawbacks as other sports on TV (especially baseball) in that so much focus is necessarily on the ball, that you miss what's happening away from the ball. There are a fair amount of wide shots in soccer, but I've gotten so used to watching from the sidelines, that I miss being able to see the whole field anytime I want.

[birddog]

not that this is some kind of bold prediction but i think t&t comes back down to earth tomorrow. england will be out to prove something to their supporters after a sluggish game against paraguay. i respect t&t for their performance against the swedes, but 4-1 seems about right. i think sweden will get on track tomorrow too, something around 2-1. costa rica-ecuador will be an interesting matchup and i think ecuador will be happy with a point. i see 1-1 there. i wish to god we could have gotten into this group. i'd love to see us play england in a world cup.

[GottaHavePride]

Holy cow, I just realized my digital cable gets Fox Soccer Channel. Sweet!

[GottaHavePride]

you should just get a job with my company GHP...hours are so so and you'd be able to roll with the band gig too :)
What exactly does this company do? ;) [/threadjack]

[TUSooner]

Holy cow, I just realized my digital cable gets Fox Soccer Channel. Sweet!
Welcome to Nirvana. Well not quite, but at least it's in English.. except for Bobby McMahon. :D

Sky Sports News is kind-of interesting, too.

[birddog]

i think ecuador won 2-0. i woke up in the 60th and saw the score. england plays t&t in half hour. i'm looking forward to that one. england will need to get crouch and owen on the same page. there's also been talk of putting cole up front. i could see that working out.

[GrapevineSooner]

Fox Soccer Channel rawks my face off.

[Sooner in Tampa]

England - 2
Trindidad Tobago - Nil

[GottaHavePride]

Sucks for T&T (dyn-o-mite! wait, sorry) I was hoping they'd somehow manage to win their barrels of rum. ;)

[soonerscuba]

England SUCCS

I'm prepared for my negging.

[TUSooner]

Just got back from a long lunch (fully authorized by the Man) at a brew pub near the office. Well worth it. My bladder almost didn't make it, but thanks to the Beckham-Crouch combo I was finally able to peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, eeeeeeeeeeeee, eeee, eeee, ee, e , e, with peace of mind.

If Lampard had missed one more shot I might have said England were snake-bit. But really, although T&T had about 2 dangerous chances, they did not deserve even a point out of this one. And as much as I like them on principle as undrdogs (and as a former steel drum player) it was proper that they lost to a better team. I was thinking Swen should have taken out Crouch instead of Owen for Rooney, but his decision proved correct. And the extra mid, Lennon, looked like a good move as well. Beckham asd Man o'Match? Well, not an outrageous choice, but Terry's "save" in the 1st half was huge, and Crouch was always a danger to the D even though he wasn't on target until late.

[TUSooner]

England SUCCS

I'm prepared for my negging.
Get back to the dominoes tread, yainch !!!

:D

[colleyvillesooner]

Fox Soccer Channel rawks my face off.

HEH!! THAT'S MY AVATAR!!!!!! :mad:

[GrapevineSooner]

HEH!! THAT'S MY AVATAR!!!!!! :mad:

OK, I changed it. :D

[colleyvillesooner]

OK, I changed it. :D

just messin with ya. I actually don't care if someone borrows my picture to use on a message board on the internet. ;)

[GottaHavePride]

Yow, tough loss for Paraguay - they just couldn't get a decent shot on goal, though. T&T stil mathematically alive, although they have to hope England beats Sweden pretty bad, and beat Paraguay by enough to scrape ahead in the goal differential column.

[birddog]

tomorrow just might be the best day so far. argentina-serbs, holland-ivory coast, mexico-angola. talk about a wasted day in the rstaurant business for me. i'm heading to the pub at 10 am to get things started off right.

[Scott D]

Just got back from a long lunch (fully authorized by the Man) at a brew pub near the office. Well worth it. My bladder almost didn't make it, but thanks to the Beckham-Crouch combo I was finally able to peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, eeeeeeeeeeeee, eeee, eeee, ee, e , e, with peace of mind.

If Lampard had missed one more shot I might have said England were snake-bit. But really, although T&T had about 2 dangerous chances, they did not deserve even a point out of this one. And as much as I like them on principle as undrdogs (and as a former steel drum player) it was proper that they lost to a better team. I was thinking Swen should have taken out Crouch instead of Owen for Rooney, but his decision proved correct. And the extra mid, Lennon, looked like a good move as well. Beckham asd Man o'Match? Well, not an outrageous choice, but Terry's "save" in the 1st half was huge, and Crouch was always a danger to the D even though he wasn't on target until late.


Owen's coming back from a broken foot that required surgery..the safer move is to take him out instead of Crouch....I'm still not sold on England only having 4 forwards on the 23 man roster...especially when one (Theo Walcott) hasn't proven anything. It's like they're hoping him to be a revelation like Owen was in 1998 at the same age.

[Scott D]

Welcome to Nirvana. Well not quite, but at least it's in English.. except for Max Bretos. :D

Sky Sports News is kind-of interesting, too.

fixed :)

[birddog]

i say get defoe in there right now with crouch. rooney shouldn't see the pitch until the second round and owen has his pace back but not his endurance.

[TUSooner]

i say get defoe in there right now with crouch. rooney shouldn't see the pitch until the second round and owen has his pace back but not his endurance.
Isn't Dafoe the striker Sven left off the team, to the chagrin of everyone in England except Sven? If Theo Walcott doesn't get any action vs Sweden, he won't get any this WC. Looks like he really is a wasted selection. Not his fault, just kinda sad.

[TUSooner]

fixed :)
C'mon now, you know Bobby McMahon is the only FSC talker who needs subtitles. :D It took me 2 weeks to realize he really was speaking English!

[Scott D]

C'mon now, you know Bobby McMahon is the only FSC talker who needs subtitles. :D It took me 2 weeks to realize he really was speaking English!

Max Bretos is the one who requires the mute button :D

I can name a handful of players who should be on the roster over Theo Walcott...including Jermaine Dafoe, Shola Ameobi, or Robbie Fowler just to name a few.

[birddog]

yeah, i guess he is. he's listed as a stand-by player which is insane if you saw the season he had with tottenham.

[birddog]

they're replaying the england match on the U right now.

[TUSooner]

Max Bretos is the one who requires the mute button :D
.....

heh

Maaaximum Sawker

[TUSooner]

they're replaying the england match on the U right now.
What is this "U"? I don't think I have it.

[birddog]

if you have digital cable, you have it. it's the espn college channel.

[Scott D]

What is this "U"? I don't think I have it.

ESPNU

[C&CDean]

Alright field fairies. When do the bloody yanks tee it up with the Eyetalians?

[GottaHavePride]

Saturday at 2 in the afternoon.

[TUSooner]

Alright field fairies. When do the bloody yanks tee it up with the Eyetalians?
You won't want to miss it ! The experts agree that It'ly plays a famously dull style, and (IMHO) they are the world's best divers, writhers, ankle-grabbers, and grimacers. If there ever was a time to hope our guys play their best game evar and humble the blue-wearin guys, this is it.

[TUSooner]

ESPNU
Actually, I have seen the ads for U, but I still don't think I have it. :mad:

[Cam]

Alright field fairies. When do the bloody yanks tee it up with the Eyetalians?
About the time you're chalking the softball fields, birthing a calf, digging a well, or anything else that might catch your fancy. ;)

[Cam]

Max Bretos is the one who requires the mute button :D
I cannot stand Max Bretos.

Why does he think that when he does a Clausura game he needs to have and Argentine accent? (Insert any other league and dialect of games they cover.)

He makes me want to punch my tv.

[Cam]

I can name a handful of players who should be on the roster over Theo Walcott...including Jermaine Dafoe, Shola Ameobi, or Robbie Fowler just to name a few.
I agree on the other players being more worthy than Walcott. However, they're not there and he is. For the love of God, take Crouch off the field and give him a chance. He can't blow any more chances than Crouch has. Dude should've had an easy hat trick today and just flat out shanked his chances. At least Lampard put most of his on target.

Rooney looked pretty good for the little amount of time he got today. Say what you want about Beckham, he's far and away one of the best crossers of the ball in the game. Lennon had a hell of a game as well. That dude's got some skill and is fast as hell.

Give it up to T&T. They came out and weren't intimidated by England and had some pretty good chances at goal.

[TUSooner]

I cannot stand Max Bretos.

Why does he think that when he does a Clausura game he needs to have and Argentine accent? (Insert any other league and dialect of games they cover.)

He makes me want to punch my tv.
But isn't he from Argentina? :confused:

[Cam]

But isn't he from Argentina? :confused:
I have no idea where he's from. Substitute Serie A and Italian and it's the same thing. He trys to change his accent to the league he's announcing and it just doesn't work. It's like finger nails on a chalk board.

[Cam]

Ecuador's playing pretty well. I think they're going to beat Germany.

[C&CDean]

Saturday at 2 in the afternoon.

Saturday? At a meeting today somebody said they played tonight. How will I ever be able to wait?

[silverwheels]

Alright field fairies. When do the bloody yanks tee it up with the Eyetalians?

Do you mean when do we get whooped by the Italians?

[GottaHavePride]

At least Lampard put most of his on target.

Lampard? You're kidding right? He missed the goal like he was a Florida State placekicker. I was waiting for him to figure out he needed to let someone else take a shot.

[TUSooner]

I have no idea where he's from. Substitute Serie A and Italian and it's the same thing. He trys to change his accent to the league he's announcing and it just doesn't work. It's like finger nails on a chalk board.
And he doesn't dress very well either!

As if I would know...

[Cam]

Lampard? You're kidding right? He missed the goal like he was a Florida State placekicker. I was waiting for him to figure out he needed to let someone else take a shot.
Well, the stats look like this.

Lampard:
Shots on target: 2
Shots off target: 6

Crouch:
Shots on target: 1
Shots off target: 6

So how bout if I said this:
At least Lampard's shots didn't have a better chance of being a throw in rather than a goal kick from 6 yards out.

I just don't believe that Crouch is one of the top 5 Strikers in England. I think he's proven that over the course of games so far.

[Scott D]

Argentina scores a goal on a great pass from Javier Saviola to Maxi Rodriguez early on....

I find it interesting they switched from a 4-4-2 against the Ivory Coast to a 3-4-3 against Serbia & Montenegro.

[TUSooner]

I find it interesting they switched from a 4-4-2 against the Ivory Coast to a 3-4-3 against Serbia & Montenegro.
I'm guessing in my own ignorant way that Argy decided they didn't need a 4th defender because Serbia does not have anybody like Drogba to worry them.

[Scott D]

true, they commented that two defenders marked Drogba most of the match..

BTW, Argentina now up 3-0 in the 41st minute.

[TUSooner]

BTW, Argentina now up 3-0 in the 41st minute.

wow. The 3 forwards are paying off, it seems.
I hate Argentine, but they are good.

[Scott D]

I think generally speaking...the top 3 teams in the joga bonito style are

1. Brasil
2. Argentina
3. Spain

What makes Argentina more dangerous than the other two is that they can play a Eurocentric shut down style as well most of the time.

Maxi has scored 2 of the 3 goals, the other was by a midfielder who was brought on as an injury substitution....Argentina dominated possession in the first half.

S&M has gotten off to a better start in the second half, but haven't gotten close to scoring in the first 4 minutes.

[Scott D]

Argentina has opened the full can of whup *** on SMT... 88 minutes.. 6 to 0.

[TUSooner]

ow!

[Dr.Quack]

It's late to be commenting on England-Trinidad. I don't like England. Too many Scottish friends poisoned my mind against them, but I'd like to take a moment to appreciate Beckham. I've never rooted for him, but he defined Man of the Match for England against T+T (for whom I rooted fiercely). His assist that decided everything was perfection. He hit so many good balls all match that had his strikers handled some better we'd have heard more freakish bellowing of those tuneless dirges the English fans yowl in the stands.

As for Crouch, I'm with the detractors. He threw his 6'7" onto the defender's shoulders and got the goal, but he botched his much easier and prettier chance there in the box, unmarked, for all the world to admire. Beckham deserves better on the other end of his service.

[GottaHavePride]

Well, Serbia's top player got ejected and the rest of the team pretty much gave up. Argentina wasn't even trying that hard from what I saw.

[GottaHavePride]

Too many Scottish friends poisoned my mind against them, but I'd like to take a moment to appreciate Beckham.

I guess that's one thing the Irish and the Scots can agree on - they all hate the English. ;)

[King Crimson]

we'd have heard more freakish bellowing of those tuneless dirges the English fans yowl in the stands.


that's a pretty good line, i like it.

[TUSooner]

I guess that's one thing the Irish and the Scots can agree on - they all hate the English. ;)

A slight irony - probably half the folks in this city, if not elsewhere in the USA, probably couldn't tell one apart from the other. :rolleyes:

[Dr.Quack]

I guess that's one thing the Irish and the Scots can agree on - they all hate the English. ;)

And maybe the only thing, which towers as a monumental tribute to having English neighbors (wink).

On the topic at hand, how committed will England be, in your opinion, to winning against Sweden? Your side is through to the next round, but that match against a rival who has a long undefeated streak against your side has implications for Trinidad and Sweden's tournament. Do English fans feel it has implications for England's tournament. I mean, it looks like Ecuador might take Group A. If they do, will England prefer to meet the home country or a team firing on all cylinders whose strikers carry luchador's masks in their shorts in anticipation of celebration. Is it choose your poison for England? What's your take on how England will approach this next match?

[birddog]

good question. i'll answer later.

[Dr.Quack]

Sorry, I've got my English correspondents confused. I'll look forward to your answer.

Poor Zokora. He doesn't touch the man and gets a yellow card. Does it seem to anyone else that African players get no breaks when it comes to bookings?

Holland 2-0.

[Dr.Quack]

Add Drogba's name to the list of unjustly booked African players.

[birddog]

i believe england will put their past with sweden behind them and look at getting a point. they will do everything possible to avoid playing the host country (especially since it is germany) and if germany takes care of business against ecuador, england will be better off. sweden will gladly take a point as well. that will be enough to get them through (assuming t&t don't mop up the pitch with paraguay). both teams will be very cautious for the first half. and to be honest, neither team will be able to pick and choose a time when they feel they should score. we'll see ALOT of play in the midfield.
it will set up like this.
group b
england
sweden
t&t (they have more pride than paraguay)
paraguay
group a
germany
ecuador
poland
costa rica
second round
1a v.2b
1b v. 2a
paraguay

[birddog]

also, ivory coast looks VERY dangerous.

[Scott D]

GHP don't forget the Welsh ;)

The excessive carding of African players seems to 'scream' of a Eurocentric point of view on the side of the referees. I'd be interested in how often African players get carded in European leagues as compared to European born players.

Back to the Argentina match, I'm keeping an eye on them because of Javier Saviola. I used to watch matches he played with River Plate while in Argentina and as a teenager he was amazing to watch against grown men. He and Pablo Aimar (was used as a sub in their first match, and on the bench for the second) were so dominating together on that team and it rolled through their league. I thought it was almost criminal back in 2002 that the Argentine team didn't even name Saviola to the 23 man roster much less not play him.

The scary thing with Argentina is who didn't make the roster this time...Javier Zanetti, Juan Sebastian Veron and Walter Samuel were all left off the team. Two of those three are among the top defenders in the world...and Veron is a pretty good midfielder albeit a bit older.

Then again, France left Robert Pires off their roster which is screaming for midfield creativity outside of Zinadine Zidane.

England is England...they spend more time playing a style suited to a 'trying not to lose' rather than a 'playing to win' you see from an Argentina, Brazil, or Spain. I wouldn't be surprized if Crouch is the guy coming in off of the bench in the second round and Owen and Rooney are the duo up front.

[King Crimson]

i was impressed with Spain's attacking style. Ukraine folded up like a cheap suit.

well, the folding and then the fouling. Spain had something like 18 shots.

[Scott D]

Oh....and in regards to the 'soccer hating'....both ABC and ESPN reported that the opening group round of matches had ratings that were double what they were in 1998.

[Dr.Quack]

Ivory Coast played brilliantly in two defeats. They're the best winless team after two matches. Still though, who can argue with Argentina and Holland advancing from this group? Soccer players, good refs, and honest fans use the phrase "unlucky" all the time to reflect how the beautiful game doesn't always reward beautiful effort and luck plays its hand. If ever there was a team that should be consoled with that magic word, it's Ivory Coast.

Birddogbbq, thanks for the perspective. I'm not wholly convinced that Ecuador can't earn a tie with host Germany. Hypothetically, let's say Ecuador wins the group. I know that beating Poland and Costa Rica makes annointing Ecuador world beaters premature, but they looked much better than Germany so far against identical competition. It isn't a preposterous hypothetical. What happens to the Sweden-England match if Ecuador wins Group A? A tie with Sweden and England gets the privilege of playing a deadly host country. Wouldn't a 0-1 loss to the Swedes serve the English hopes better should Ecuador win Group A? Could an Ecuador win or draw with Germany make believers of England making a draw or victory vs. Sweden and a tilt with the hosts a worthy goal? I know it's hypothetical, but your a fan of a team making a difference in this tournament, so your thoughts on your team's next game really interest me. I agree that a draw is fine if the that rewards England with a match against Ecuador, but what if it takes a loss to earn that privilege?

One of the real pleasures of the third match of the group stage is fathoming a team and fan-base's thinking. As a fan, searching your feelings for what you want to happen sometimes doesn't get settled until that third match begins. Players deny such gamesmanship figures into their thinking. They want to win every match, so they claim. Right. I've watched almost every World Cup match since 1978 (back when PBS showed one-hour condensed versions starting with round two--who says soccer fandom hasn't come a long way in the US?) and seen that players can deny all they like, but positioning in the knock-out rounds clearly has its effect on team play, not just fan hopes.

[GottaHavePride]

Hmmm. Granted Germany's a host country, but Ecuador looks really hot right now. If it was me, I might almost prefer playing the Germans before they really start to click.

Too bad for Ivory Coast earlier - that was a cheap call on Drogba, but at least they get to play Serbia/Montenegro - they should be able o win that one easy, even if they are just going home afterwards. The big questions is after they get back, how long does it take before the civil war looks around and says "game on!" ?

[Scott D]

Hmmm. Granted Germany's a host country, but Ecuador looks really hot right now. If it was me, I might almost prefer playing the Germans before they really start to click.

Too bad for Ivory Coast earlier - that was a cheap call on Drogba, but at least they get to play Serbia/Montenegro - they should be able o win that one easy, even if they are just going home afterwards. The big questions is after they get back, how long does it take before the civil war looks around and says "game on!" ?

Unfortunately it may start up not long after the final games of this round. There was a vignette this morning on ESPN2 about it...and it seems that religion is the source of the civil war (big shocker there eh?) the north part of the country is Muslim, and the south part is Christian.

[TUSooner]

All the talk about who a team would rather play is understandable, at least for the fans. But the bottom line is that a team must think like they can beat anybody anywhere anyime. Unfortunatley, I don't think England (starting with Sven) has that attitude. I see England playing for a draw vs Sweden, and probbaly getting it, 0-0. I expect the match will be just as lackluster as England's first 2 matches.

The ultimate result will be that England STILL won't be in form against either Germany or Ecuador, and Sven & Co. will go out like lambs in round 2. At least that will end Sven's term.

England needs to be thinking about getting its attack in gear and scoring some goals. But I'll be shocked, SHOCKED if they do.

Time to start Rooney & Owen up front. Crouch needs 6 easy opportunities to get 1 goal, so might as well let the other guys have a better whack at it. After bringing on a spark vs T&T, Lennon deserves lots of playing time

[silverwheels]

I can't be the only one rooting for Angola right now...

[Scott D]

you certainly are not, however I'd say a draw is the best result Angola can get right now down a man.

[GottaHavePride]

Hooray for Angola - keeping Mexico to a draw was pretty stout work. Nice job by their goalkeeper.

[Jeopardude]

Hooray for Angola - keeping Mexico to a draw was pretty stout work. Nice job by their goalkeeper.

Having lived in Mexico and them being our North American neighbors, I always try to convince myself I should root for them. I then remember their nasty play and spitting in the last WC and how they behave anytime they play U.S. On top of that, Marquez was particularly rough today and I root for the other guy.

Mexico blew several chances and Ricardo had the best goalie play since T&T's Hyslop's game against Sweden. Too bad Angola didn't have one more striker on the level of Malanga (sp.?) to threaten more seriously. Angola's got a great chance against Iran, so this group is way up in the air. Who would've thought it?

[Dr.Quack]

The Black Antelopes earned a life line, but they are still up against it, alas. A Portugal-Iran draw would throw them another one. An Iran win would throw them a whole life raft.

Cam threw Tommy Smyth some love earlier. Let me amplify that. I'm a little too old to have been part of the Youth Soccer movement in this country. I played baseball and loved it (still do). But as a spectator, something captured my imagination about soccer. Tommy Smyth has done more to teach me not just the dry stuff about rules and tactics. He taught me how fans of the game think and talk. He can't hide his passions, he's in on life's joke, knows the game worldwide inside and out, appreciates the underdogs while giving the game's aristocrats their due, and doesn't harp on the same theme too long or hard. He's the best color man in US soccer broadcasting (English language, Univision has some heroes too) and has been for what seems like twenty years.

[Okieflyer]

There's a World Cup Thread?



Why?:confused:

[birddog]

because the world cup is being played. it started last friday.

[Cam]

Then again, France left Robert Pires off their roster which is screaming for midfield creativity outside of Zinadine Zidane.
I'm still amazed at his exclusion from the squad.


England is England...they spend more time playing a style suited to a 'trying not to lose' rather than a 'playing to win' you see from an Argentina, Brazil, or Spain. I wouldn't be surprized if Crouch is the guy coming in off of the bench in the second round and Owen and Rooney are the duo up front.
England is by far the most boring of the 2-0 teams thus far. That will change if Rooney gets the nod over Crouch in the starting 11. His pace and style of play energize the whole team.

Argentina. Wow, that was a full on *** kicking they administered today. Part of me would like to think that it sets up an interesting match with Holland, but I don't think that Holland will really care since they're already thru to the next round. Messi is a freaking stud. Sorin has really impressed me with his skill at both ends of the field so far. Serb&Mont just plain quit. Can't really blame them too much for that as they were beaten soundly in every aspect of the game. But damn, 6-0, in the World Cup???? OUCH

Having said that, Holland looks pretty solid and have moved into my top 4, which actually contains 5 teams. :D
1) Argentina
2) Brazil
3) Spain
4) Czech/Holland

Poor Mexico. :stunned: Nah, I can't even fake disappointment. Angola gets a point off of them. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Once again, the Ivory Coast proved they belong with the big boys. Pretty damn talented side. Unfortunately, we won't get to see Drogba in this tournament any longer as he received his 2nd yellow card of the first round. If this group can stay together, look out for them in 2010.

Iran/Portugal: Portugal can take a strangle hold on this group with a win. 2-0 Portugal.

Czech/Ghana: Czech's work them over 3-0.

USA/Italy: A better showing by the yanks, but not good enough. Italy 2-1.

[King Crimson]

wow, just saw the Angola-Mexico score....

[Scott D]

England may have *good* news (for them) in regards to their match with Sweden...that being that Zlatan Ibramovic is sporting a groin injury suffered prior to Sweden's match yesterday....that cuts down their striking ability slightly.

Oh, good for Ronaldinho for sticking up for Ronaldo with reporters today. I definitely like Brasil's attitude about the World Cup being a 7 game tournament. That's the kind of attitude we need to develop in the USA.

[TUSooner]

Brazil & Argentina: Being a Eurocentric chauvinist pig, I always go against Arg and seldom for Brazil. But the way both play demands admiration, especially after watching England and Germany plod along as if they are playing a whole 'nother sport.

Tommy Smythe: I really like him and Adrian ____, his play English by play guy, as a team. Their ribbing is a bit corny, but nice, and they enliven the broadcast simply by showing that they know and love the game. I feel like some of the American talkers assume that they have to dumb down their analysis to instruct an ignorant American audience, of say, 20 or 30 years ago. They need to realize that there are plenty of American aficionadoes watching these days. A friend of mine was ragging all over Tommy the other day. He was hearing the Irish accent and thinking Tommy's presence in the booth was somehow condescending and just for show. If he had shut up and paid attention he would have realized how wrong he was.

Another breakfast party at my house by the way; feel free to drop by. I'll go out to the ball park after the USA match to clean up and line the fields for Sunday.

My daughter was razzing her Iranian-born US citizen Mom, saying that Mom would get to see both of her countries get spanked on Saturday. It's nice to have everybody in the house gtetting into the WC spirit.

Carry on.