Munich - has anyone seen it?

[KaiserSooner]

I just watched it last night. Not knowing much about it, I thought it was going to be a glorification of Israeli state-sponsored terrorism, but it wasn't quite that. Good flick.

[C&CDean]

Let's see. A bunch of Israeli's get butchered at the Olympics in Munich - and it's Israeli state-sponsored terrorism? Who knew?

[nmsoonergirl]

Saw it a few nights ago. Good movie, but WOW was it long. Really long.

[dolemitesooner]

GREAT MOVIE

[soonerhubs]

I liked it okay. It drug a little, but overall worth watching.

[OklahomaTuba]

Let's see. A bunch of Israeli's get butchered at the Olympics in Munich - and it's Israeli state-sponsored terrorism? Who knew?

You didn't know that?

Bet you didn't know that the holocaust was all a big lie either, did you?

Its pretty crazy that some people actually believe this crap.

[Boomer.....]

I liked it okay. It drug a little, but overall worth watching.

Same. It was definitely long.

[yermom]

You didn't know that?

Bet you didn't know that the holocaust was all a big lie either, did you?

Its pretty crazy that some people actually believe this crap.

have you seen the movie?

[dolemitesooner]

You didn't know that?

Bet you didn't know that the holocaust was all a big lie either, did you?

Its pretty crazy that some people actually believe this crap.
wtf does that mean dude?

Are you out of your mind?

[King Crimson]

i didn't think it was all that great. it looked great and the first hour was pretty nifty....but too much Spielbergism for me. I don't find Stevie's staging of "moral dilemmas" all that convincing.

i was glad to see Marie-Jose Crozee naked though (assassin chick), even though she was both about to die and dead. she was hot in an indie film called Maelstrom.

[TUSooner]

I thought it was going to be a glorification of Israeli state-sponsored terrorism....
I'm not sure where that came from, and it's kinda disappointing. You might could call "terrorism" if, in retaliation for Munich, the Israelis had rounded up a bunch of random innocent Palestinian hostages and shot them. But hunting down murderers doesn't qualify, unless you use the Humpty Dumpty dictionary, where words mean whatever you say they mean.

[yermom]

it's not like they just hunted them down, they blew up buildings with bombs killing innocents along the way

not to mention they kept adding people that may or may not have even been involved

[KaiserSooner]

Let's see. A bunch of Israeli's get butchered at the Olympics in Munich - and it's Israeli state-sponsored terrorism? Who knew?

Yeah, you haven't seen it.

[KaiserSooner]

Saw it a few nights ago. Good movie, but WOW was it long. Really long.

Yeah, 3 hrs is a little too long.

[KaiserSooner]

You didn't know that?

Bet you didn't know that the holocaust was all a big lie either, did you?

Its pretty crazy that some people actually believe this crap.

Yeah, you haven't seen the movie either.

[KaiserSooner]

i didn't think it was all that great. it looked great and the first hour was pretty nifty....but too much Spielbergism for me. I don't find Stevie's staging of "moral dilemmas" all that convincing.


I definitley agree that Spielberg's staged preaching is a little too contrived at times. But for this movie, I sort of think it worked, otherwise it would have been a plain ole glorification of state-sponsored terrorism.

[KaiserSooner]

I'm not sure where that came from, and it's kinda disappointing. You might could call "terrorism" if, in retaliation for Munich, the Israelis had rounded up a bunch of random innocent Palestinian hostages and shot them. But hunting down murderers doesn't qualify

I don't care how convincingly you or any country attempts to justify it, any state that blatantly violates international law and the laws of other countries in order to kill people is in the wrong.

Israel apparently was aware of this, otherwise it would have had the Mossad go after these guys, and not a band of assassins, whom Israel was prepared to deny any connection with if the international community found them out.

[King Crimson]

I definitley agree that Spielberg's staged preaching is a little too contrived at times. But for this movie, I sort of think it worked, otherwise it would have been a plain ole glorification of state-sponsored terrorism.

the other thing is Stevie tends to trade in plausibility for cinematic effect far too often. OK, we're gonna plant plastic explosives in some big wig terrorist cat's apartment telephone posing as telephone repair people when no one is home....so, after the job is done, the plastic explosives guy will tell Eric Bana (and THE AUDIENCE) how the thing is going to work....."when the key is turned and the green light goes on...then the bomb is activated...." all this while they are in a dangerous get the F out of there situation.

or: the lebonese shootout raid: two lines of israelis blasted away with automatic weapons at some cats in the middle.....the israelis are about 20 yards apart.....and none of them are dying with crazy gunfire shooting at each other?

the overdone visions of european cities was pretty comical: it's raining=London, people with wooden shoes, tulips, windmill=Netherlands, etc.

the gothy-slutty German Marxist chick's little spiel about Hegel and Marcuse is also really dumb and a very bad reading of both by the writer. but, it suits his purpose to demonize both in context.

[C&CDean]

Yeah, you haven't seen it.

Uh, DOH.

I lived it. And everybody knows, once you **** with the Israelis, all bets are off.

[KaiserSooner]

the other thing is Stevie tends to trade in plausibility for cinematic effect far too often. OK, we're gonna plant plastic explosives in some big wig terrorist cat's apartment telephone posing as telephone repair people when no one is home....so, after the job is done, the plastic explosives guy will tell Eric Bana (and THE AUDIENCE) how the thing is going to work....."when the key is turned and the green light goes on...then the bomb is activated...." all this while they are in a dangerous get the F out of there situation.

or: the lebonese shootout raid: two lines of israelis blasted away with automatic weapons at some cats in the middle.....the israelis are about 20 yards apart.....and none of them are dying with crazy gunfire shooting at each other?

the overdone visions of european cities was pretty comical: it's raining=London, people with wooden shoes, tulips, windmill=Netherlands, etc.

the gothy-slutty German Marxist chick's little spiel about Hegel and Marcuse is also really dumb and a very bad reading of both by the writer. but, it suits his purpose to demonize both in context.

I hear ya. I guess I missed the wooden shoes, but I was definitely scratching my head over the "telephone repairmen" breaking into the apartment scene, and the movie just sort of skating over it.

[TUSooner]

it's not like they just hunted them down, they blew up buildings with bombs killing innocents along the way

not to mention they kept adding people that may or may not have even been involved
Oh.
I did hear the film didn't exactly glorify the revenge-takers. Other than that, please read my sig.

[Vaevictis]

Israel apparently was aware of this, otherwise it would have had the Mossad go after these guys, and not a band of assassins, whom Israel was prepared to deny any connection with if the international community found them out.

What, is Mossad not used in that fasion? I always figured that, as an agency that engages in covert ops, Mossad does in fact do these kinds of things, and that the people involved in Mossad would from time to time be left to hang if they are caught.

My impression was that the "band of assassins", as you put it, was used because Mossad was, for some reason, incapable of doing it without someone suspecting them. (Not suprising, as intelligence angencies tend to go back to the same well over and over again for information, making it possible to trace actions back to them, even if you can't prove it.)

(and actually, iirc, when Mossad killed someone, they WANTED you to know that it was Mossad that done it, they just didn't want you to be able to prove it ;) )

[49r]

I thought it was a pretty impressive trick how they inserted the WTC towers into the NYC skyline in the last shot. It was a bit of a cheap shot though IMO, playing on American emotions about terrorism and trying to associate Munich with 9-11.

But overall I liked it.

[49r]

Oh, and ***SPOILER ALERT*** ^^^

[sooneron]

I liked parts of it. I agree about the whole Spielberg stuff above, but I think Bana's portrayal was really good,actually, most of the performances were good.

[Scott D]

I liked parts of it. I agree about the whole Spielberg stuff above, but I think Bana's portrayal was really good,actually, most of the performances were good.

but how much longer will it be until people quit going to Spielberg movies because of preachiness.

[yermom]

but how much longer will it be until people quit going to Spielberg movies because of preachiness.

i'd bet that would be when hell freezes over ;)

[sooneron]

but how much longer will it be until people quit going to Spielberg movies because of preachiness.
It's his schtick, they will never really tire of it- He's Capra-esque.

[KaiserSooner]

I thought it was a pretty impressive trick how they inserted the WTC towers into the NYC skyline in the last shot. It was a bit of a cheap shot though IMO, playing on American emotions about terrorism and trying to associate Munich with 9-11.

But overall I liked it.

Hmm, interesting. You could be right, but I never made that association when I saw the skyline with the WTC panned into the shot. It was fairly far back in the background and, besides, I thought it was only historically and geographically accurate: It was sometime in the mid to late 70s and for anyone familiar with the the Manhattan skyline, it was pretty clear they were standing in Queens, looking across the East River towards the UN, with the camera panning southward towards the rest of midtown and on downward towards downtown Manhattan.

[KaiserSooner]

I liked parts of it. I agree about the whole Spielberg stuff above, but I think Bana's portrayal was really good,actually, most of the performances were good.

Agree. Bana was pretty good.

[49r]

Hmm, interesting. You could be right, but I never made that association when I saw the skyline with the WTC panned into the shot. It was fairly far back in the background and, besides, I thought it was only historically and geographically accurate: It was sometime in the mid to late 70s and for anyone familiar with the the Manhattan skyline, it was pretty clear they were standing in Queens, looking across the East River towards the UN, with the camera panning southward towards the rest of midtown and on downward towards downtown Manhattan.

Sure...but the pan was unnecessary. Plus the camera stopped to center the shot on the WTC. Finally, the haziness gives the towers a ghost-like appearance reminding the viewer that they aren't there any more. Spielberg's real tricky, but this one was way too obvious, IMO.

[SoonerProphet]

I saw it a few weeks back. Thought it was a pretty good flick, although the wife did ask when the thing was going to end. Did it have some contrived Hollywood elements to it, sure, but still a pretty solid message. In the grand scheme of things though, just an example of the cycle of violence that the region can't seem to escape. Haghana blows up the King David Hotel and Black September kills Israeli athletes, nothing has changed and I doubt it ever will.

[Scott D]

It's his schtick, they will never really tire of it- He's Capra-esque.

People's proclivity to be sheep makes me sad. Then again that might be why I don't mind watching foreign films..subtitles don't bother me as much as the known quantity involving a majority of directors and studios in this country.

[KaiserSooner]

but still a pretty solid message.

Overall, I agree.


In the grand scheme of things though, just an example of the cycle of violence that the region can't seem to escape. Haghana blows up the King David Hotel and Black September kills Israeli athletes, nothing has changed and I doubt it ever will.

It will. Maybe not in our lifetime, but it will change. Things always change....Europe climbed out of the Dark Ages, and China lost its technological and scientific edge when its rulers decided to shut itself off from the rest of the world.

[opksooner]

......Haghana (sic) blows up the King David Hotel and Black September kills Israeli athletes, nothing has changed and I doubt it ever will.

In the case of the King David, there were warnings. Not so with the Pals.

The bombing of the King David Hotel occurred in July 1946 and some saw it as a pivotal moment in recent Middle East history. The King David Hotel was the site for the British Military Command in Palestine. It also served as the headquarters of the British Criminal Investigation Division. The bombing of the hotel galvanised the British into realising that their time in Palestine was coming to an end.

On June 29th 1946, the British unexpectedly entered the premises of the Jewish Agency and took away with them a large number of documents – some of which were deemed to be sensitive. All the documents were taken to the King David Hotel where they were to be assessed by intelligence analysts. At around the same time, the British arrested 2,500 Jews in Palestine. Irgun, a Jewish secret organisation (deemed to be a terrorist group by the British) decided to target the hotel for vengeance and also as a way of destroying the documents that had been taken by the British.

The leader of Irgun, Menachem Begin, claimed that Irgun saw the hotel solely as a military building – and therefore a legitimate target. Begin claimed that three warnings were sent out on July 22nd 1946 about the planned attack to keep casualties to the minimum. Begin claimed that three phone calls were made to a) to the French Consulate b) to the hotel itself and c) to the "Palestine Post".

Any warnings were to no avail. The British did not evacuate the hotel and the bombing killed 91 people and injured 45. Ironically, few people in the hotel itself were killed – and Jews were among the casualties.

.

[KaiserSooner]

Well, in your quotation above, it says Irgun and Begin claimed there were warnings, so nothing definitive about that.

Nevertheless, I tend to think warnings are beside Prophet's point...i.e., violence begets violence.

[opksooner]

......Nevertheless, I tend to think warnings are beside Prophet's point...i.e., violence begets violence. So....I guess the best thing to do would be to turn the other cheek on 9/11?

[King Crimson]

So....I guess the best thing to do would be to turn the other cheek on 9/11?


i dont' see where Kaiser has said that anywhere in this thread. that's a forced interpretation. and, in my opinion, Kaiser has been misread unfairly many times in this thread.

this being the latest....in fact, opk, are you not justifying Palestinian violence?

should they turn the other cheek?

[opksooner]

I'm biased. So be it.

[KaiserSooner]

So....I guess the best thing to do would be to turn the other cheek on 9/11?

Well that's a leap, but no. A response to 9/11 didn't and doesn't necessarily involve war and violence.

[Scott D]

I'm biased. So be it.

on this board? naaaaah. ;)

[opksooner]

Is anyone around these parts bemoaning the US's "eye for an eye", "targeted assassination" of al Zarquawi?

I thought so.