Oklahoma's better rivalry...

[SoonerJedi]

Is it just me or did the last Husker to make fun of OU was probably back in 2001? I get that this used to be a rivalry, but aside from Cutthroat Calahan, most Huskers have been nice to us in recent years. No offense byt the way, just asking...

Okay, I’ll say it …. as far as history goes, the Nebraska/Oklahoma rivalry is better than the Oklahoma/Texas rivalry.

There, I’ve said it.

There’s nothing wrong with the Oklahoma/Texas rivalry and currently it has been the most relevant, but the best rivalry Oklahoma has ever had is the Nebraska/Oklahoma one. How many times did they knock us from the #1 spot? How many times did we knock them from the #1 spot? Remember "Sooner magic" from the 70s and 80s? Remember the Game of the Century? Or the rematch in the Game of the Century 2? Remember when Billy Sims fumbled 9 times and we lost our #1 ranking falling to Nebraska 14-17, only to get a rematch in the Orange Bowl that we won? (Remember Tom Osborne's face when the Orange Bowl committee told him that he had to play us again ---- ROTFL)! Or even more recently when Huepel led us back from 14 down to upset them when they were ranked #1, and then the next year when they broke our 20 game winning streak on a trick play.

Texas has just been a rivalry of two teams that don’t like each other … Nebraska has been a legendary opponent, a mirror image of Oklahoma. I don’t know that Texas/Oklahoma rivalry has ever seen the two teams ranked #1 and #2 respectively … the Oklahoma/Nebraska rivalry has seen it happen almost a dozen times.

I know the argument against is that we were down in the 90s, and they’ve been down in the 2000s, so both teams really haven't been good at the same time for a while, but this is momentary for both programs. In fact, last year’s Nebraska team reminded me a great deal of OU in '99. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if both teams beat Texas this year and they meet in the Big12 championship game with only one or two loses between them.

I probably hate Texas more than I hate Nebraska, but that isn't the only factor in what makes a good rivalry. Legendary games and stories are what makes a great rivalry.

[Octavian]

the RRS has only featured a #1 vs. #2 matchup once - 1963.

Texas won 28-7 and won DKR's first NC (in Wilkinson's last year).

OU-Neb 1-2 matchups: 71, 87, 00, and possibly 01 (either the AP, Coaches, or BCS poll had us as 1-2 IIRC)

Switzer says in Bootlegger's Boy that the Nebraska game was bigger for OU in his tenure b/c:
a.) they were a conference opponent
b.) the Big 8 title was always on the line for both (either Nebraska or OU won or shared the conference title each of Swtizer's 16 seasons) and the NC was usually on the line for one, if not both.

[Interestingly, Switzer finished w/ a better record against Neb (12-5) than against Texas (9-5-2)]

Texas simply wasn't as good of an overrall program as Nebraska -and definetly not Oklahoma -after 1970. Nebraska cost us a NC in 71 and 78. Switz probably cost Osborne a chance at five or so MNC games. He was to Osborne what Miami has been to Bobby Bowden.

I agree w/ you to an extent. From the late 60s to the late 80s, OU-Nebraska was probably the crown jewel of CFB rivalries. OU-Texas has a longer history, but perhaps OU-Nebraska has a richer history.

Since the inception of the BigXII though....it's tough to argue against the RRS. It's arguably the top rivalry now in the sport.

[freshchris05]

Okay, I’ll say it …. as far as history goes, the Nebraska/Oklahoma rivalry is better than the Oklahoma/Texas rivalry.

There, I’ve said it.

There’s nothing wrong with the Oklahoma/Texas rivalry and currently it has been the most relevant, but the best rivalry Oklahoma has ever had is the Nebraska/Oklahoma one. How many times did they knock us from the #1 spot? How many times did we knock them from the #1 spot? Remember "Sooner magic" from the 70s and 80s? Remember the Game of the Century? Or the rematch in the Game of the Century 2? Remember when Billy Sims fumbled 9 times and we lost our #1 ranking falling to Nebraska 14-17, only to get a rematch in the Orange Bowl that we won? (Remember Tom Osborne's face when the Orange Bowl committee told him that he had to play us again ---- ROTFL)! Or even more recently when Huepel led us back from 14 down to upset them when they were ranked #1, and then the next year when they broke our 20 game winning streak on a trick play.

Texas has just been a rivalry of two teams that don’t like each other … Nebraska has been a legendary opponent, a mirror image of Oklahoma. I don’t know that Texas/Oklahoma rivalry has ever seen the two teams ranked #1 and #2 respectively … the Oklahoma/Nebraska rivalry has seen it happen almost a dozen times.

I know the argument against is that we were down in the 90s, and they’ve been down in the 2000s, so both teams really haven't been good at the same time for a while, but this is momentary for both programs. In fact, last year’s Nebraska team reminded me a great deal of OU in '99. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if both teams beat Texas this year and they meet in the Big12 championship game with only one or two loses between them.

I probably hate Texas more than I hate Nebraska, but that isn't the only factor in what makes a good rivalry. Legendary games and stories are what makes a great rivalry.

a slightly dimmer mirror but i get what your saying, and u got a point but man i hate texas.....

Hook 'em Hook 'em Hook 'em

[Octavian]

oh, I didn't realize the "I hate Texas" line was required to post in this thread.

Well, I hate Texas. ;)

[85sooners]

Hook 'em ****em

[freshchris05]

oh, I didn't realize the "I hate Texas" line was required to post in this thread.

Well, I hate Texas. ;)

it's always required, says in the sooner manual.... chapter 2 paragraph 4 clause 1

[Octavian]

it's always required, says in the sooner manual.... chapter 2 paragraph 4 clause 1

:D

[SoonerJedi]

OU-Neb 1-2 matchups: 71, 87, 00, and possibly 01 (either the AP, Coaches, or BCS poll had us as 1-2 IIRC)


Thanks or correcting my memory a bit ...

I looked it up and 2001 We were ranked #1 in the BCS and Nebraska #2, though I believe Miami was ranked #1 in the other polls (but I only know how to look up BCS rankings)

Also, I had thought that in '78 we were ranked #1 and Nebraska #2 when they beat us. I realize that they fell to Missouri the next game and dropped, but I had the impression that was another #1/#2 game that was played the first time. I didn't know how to look this up one way or the other.



OU-Texas has a longer history, but perhaps OU-Nebraska has a richer history.

Since the inception of the BigXII though....it's tough to argue against the RRS. It's arguably the top rivalry now in the sport.

Well, which argument do you want to go with?

On the one hand you say Texas/Oklahoma has a "longer history", but obviously it's not as relevant a history.

Whereas in your next comment you want to narrow the scope down to the span of the 10 years that the Big12 has been around. I admit that looking at a short span of ten years Texas/Oklahoma has been more relevant (though really only 1999-2006 has been relevant of that - and that span includes three blowouts). However, I'm not sure a ten year window (or 7 looking realistically) makes a great rivalry.

(BTW - I do think Oklahoma/Texas is a great rivarly, I'm just saying that narrowing to a seven year span, so that you don't have to include all of those battles against Nebraska, is too narrowly focus to consider it "great".)

I think Texas/Oklahoma is a great rivalry, but Nebraska/Oklahoma is better in my book.

[SelmaBamaFan]

This is like Bama fans fighting over who is our biggest rival, AU or UT.


I say **** em both!

[Big Red Ron]

Depends on your age. I grew up with OU/Neb as the best rivalry. My Dad's days it was OU/UT.

[SoonerJedi]

This is like Bama fans fighting over who is our biggest rival, AU or UT.


With a few differences :


A) Everyone knows it is Auburn, but since Auburn has owned Bama as badly as we've owned Texas, Alabama fans want to look for a weaker opponent like Tennessee and claim that is thier better rivalry.

- and -

B) No one care's who is Alabama's biggest rivalry. Bama stopped being relevant decades ago.




I'm just giving you a hard time Bama-fan... Perhaps I'm just jealous of how good the SEC is this year. :eek:

[Big Red Ron]

With a few differences :


A) Everyone knows it is Auburn, but since Auburn has owned Bama as badly as we've owned Texas, Alabama fans want to look for a weaker opponent like Tennessee and claim that is thier better rivalry.

- and -

B) No one care's who is Alabama's biggest rivalry. Bama stopped being relevant decades ago.



The Force is not strong with this one.

[SelmaBamaFan]

UT used to be the 'respected' rival back in the day, just as NU was to you guys. Due to the off the field feuds as of late, UT has moved up on the hate list, and im some fans' eyes... past Auburn.

[SoonerJedi]

Depends on your age. I grew up with OU/Neb as the best rivalry. My Dad's days it was OU/UT.


Your dad's days aside, it still remains that the Oklahoma/Nebraska rivalry has seen better drama than the Oklahoma Texas rivalry historically.

[Big Red Ron]

Your dad's days aside, it still remains that the Oklahoma/Nebraska rivalry has seen better drama than the Oklahoma Texas rivalry historically.Hmm..if you omit the 00's between OU/UT and the 5o's too then you may have a point.

[SoonerJedi]

Hmm..if you omit the 00's between OU/UT and the 5o's too then you may have a point.

<Chuckle>
Looking exclusively at the 50s and 2000s (and I'll throw in the 60s), the Texas/OU is a good rivalry. However it pales in comparison to the Oklahoma/Nebraska games of the 60s, 70s, and 80s.

Consider this ... even in 2000s which I agree Texas has been the more relevant foe, consider which matchup was more significant:


2000 :
a) #1 Nebraska verses #2 Oklahoma
--or--
b) #10 Texas verses #14 Oklahoma? ( a blowout)


2001 :
a) #1 Oklahoma verses #2 Nebraska
--or--
b) #2 Oklahoma verses #6 Texas (a rare close game)


The best OU/Texas matchup in the 2000s was #1 verses #4 (another blowout I beleive). The top two games in the 2000s for Oklahoma were against Nebraska. None of the games against Texas really come close. Texas has been more "relevant" in 2000s only because they have remained a really good opponent and we have had to play them every year.

[freshchris05]

truthfully, i really liked the OU vs 'bama games a few years ago those were tough great games, with good memories, and with both teams having storied histories and almost the same uniforms, i think we should play them more than every once in a while...

[tbl]

It really depends upon what ones definition of a rivalry is and what they want out of it. Some people want a rival to be like a Roman gladiator match, where the only desire is to draw blood and kill the opponent, prompting hate between the two (saxeT). Some people want a rivalry to have mutual respect between the two parties, with no serious ill will. They would probably even root for said opponent when they weren't playing each other.

It really all depends on the fan (and in this argument, age plays a big factor). For me, I'll go with Liz and say "Glaaadiatuhh".

[tbl]

but I love the history and the relationship with the Nebbish fans... It has been tainted as of late, but hopefully we can get it restored.

[SoonerJedi]

It really depends upon what ones definition of a rivalry is and what they want out of it. Some people want a rival to be like a Roman gladiator match, where the only desire is to draw blood and kill the opponent, prompting hate between the two (saxeT). Some people want a rivalry to have mutual respect between the two parties, with no serious ill will. They would probably even root for said opponent when they weren't playing each other.

It really all depends on the fan (and in this argument, age plays a big factor). For me, I'll go with Liz and say "Glaaadiatuhh".


Good points.

A rivalry requires hatred, but both Oklahoma/Texas and Oklahoma/Nebraska has those. In fact, Clemson and South Carolina both have hatred, but that's not a particularly compelling rivalry because neither are really great teams.

So here's my criteria of a rivalry, and where the comparison breaks down:

1. A great rivalry needs to have hatred.
Both OU/UT and OU/NU have had that. The edge would go to Texas as Oklahoma hates Texas a little more than Nebraska (especially now that they are in the same division).
OU/Texas

2. A great rivalry needs to have great teams.
Again, both are present in either rivalry, but Texas and OU didn’t always play each other when both were great. Nebraska and OU co-existed in the same power dominance. Thus the Nebraska/OU matches have far more #1 verses #2 matchups.
OU/Nebraska

3. A great rivalry needs to have a long standing tradition.
Both series are over a hundred years old, but the Texas/OU is a longer standing one.
OU/Texas

4. A great rivalry needs to have history making games.
There have been some good moments in the OU/Texas rivalry, but I challenge you to name three games that changed the college football landscape the way the OU/NU rivalry has. Here are my “watershed” games in college football that happened in the OU/NU rivalry.

1) 1971. In what would be called “the game of the century”, and was one of the most important gams in college football. The college football world would be shown how the wishbone option would fare against the best college team, and the best college defense in America. Even though OU lost that game 35-31, as much would be talked about Oklahoma’s program as would Nebraska’s in the following weeks. The popularity of the wishbone offense would take off after the nation watched that game.

2) 1978. The “upset” followed by the “re-match” later that year. After OU fumbled 9 times and was upset in Lincoln 17-14, Oklahoma’s national title hopes were dashed. They were clearly college football’s best team, but because Nebraska was also upset the next game by Missouri, Oklahoma and Nebraska would play each other in the Orange Bowl (two teams from the same conference playing each other in a bowl was rare then, impossible today). Oklahoma would make up for their loss and end the year as the only team that could say that they beat every team they played (still a team with 1 tie would win the NC).

3) 1980. The “Sooner Magic” game. After Nebraska scored on a 1 yard run with time winding down the crowd threw oranges on the field indicating the obvious, that Nebraska was headed for the orange bowl. However in a matter of seconds after receiving the kickoff, a good return and a 43 yard run by Busta Rymes, Oklahoma eventually punched it in the end-zone to change the complexity of college football’s bowl situation in seconds.

4) 1987. The “Game of the Century II” featured #1 Nebraska and #2 Oklahoma. Nebraska took an early 7-0 lead, but Oklahoma stormed back to knock off #1 Nebraska 17-7.

5) 2000. After beating #10 Texas and #2 Kansas State, Oklahoma climbed to #2 ranked after starting the year around #20. Nebraska was #1. After a Nebraska jumped out to a quick 14-0 start, Oklahoma worked it’s way back into the game and eventually knocked off the top ranked Cornhuskers.

Can anyone name even two moments in the Texas/Oklahoma rivalry that had the same national significance as of any of these games?

[CatfishSooner]

Wow...I just got goose bumps...

[caphorns]

I think OU/NU already f'd their "rivalry" up by agreeing to divide the Big 12 into N. and S. I really think you guys arrogantly thought NU/OU would be playing nearly every year in the Big XII championship game. OU's done its part, but NU let their program go to sh!t.

I actually am one that would like to see NU get back to glory. I think UT even has started some rivalry with this bunch and they are much more pleasant (Cali***** aside) than the rest of the Big XII North.

[A-M]

Depends on your age. I grew up with OU/Neb as the best rivalry. My Dad's days it was OU/UT.
I don't know how old your dad is, but I'm 62 and for me it was always OU/NU and not UT until after the Big XII was formed. I agreee that the OU/NU was much more important then the OU/UT game has been as far as the national picture goes. Having said this, I do think that now I hate Hook 'em now as much as I have ever hated NU.

[A-M]

OU vs nebbish had more classic games in my lifetime but when you say rivalry, it's got to be OU vs the whorns. Regardless of the year and ranking, that's the game we want to win more than any other.
You may need to only speak for yourself on this buddy. Just whom does "we" include?

[tbl]

I think OU/NU already f'd their "rivalry" up by agreeing to divide the Big 12 into N. and S. I really think you guys arrogantly thought NU/OU would be playing nearly every year in the Big XII championship game. OU's done its part, but NU let their program go to sh!t.

I actually am one that would like to see NU get back to glory. I think UT even has started some rivalry with this bunch and they are much more pleasant (Cali***** aside) than the rest of the Big XII North.

They may be pleasant to you, but they hate your guts and think you're a bunch of classless morans. I work for a company based out of Lincoln and this is the overwhelming consensus of all the Husker fans I know. More proof that Nebbish fans know a lot about football. ;)

I would also differ with the earlier post that there is hate between OU/NU. I wouldn't classify that as hate at all. At the time we're playing, maybe. After the game and during the rest of the season, not really at all. With saxeT it's hate 24/7.

[freshchris05]

They may be pleasant to you, but they hate your guts and think you're a bunch of classless morans. I work for a company based out of Lincoln and this is the overwhelming consensus of all the Husker fans I know. More proof that Nebbish fans know a lot about football. ;)

I would also differ with the earlier post that there is hate between OU/NU. I wouldn't classify that as hate at all. At the time we're playing, maybe. After the game and during the rest of the season, not really at all. With saxeT it's hate 24/7.


thank you... ive been trying t explain that to whorns in other threads and they act like i'm hitler... as if they dont hate sooners... its football leave politics out of it... excuse me, it's college football leave politics out of it... u know how the pros go about business....

[caphorns]

They may be pleasant to you, but they hate your guts and think you're a bunch of classless morans. I work for a company based out of Lincoln and this is the overwhelming consensus of all the Husker fans I know. More proof that Nebbish fans know a lot about football. ;)


I didn't know they had aggies in Lincoln.

[goingoneight]

Calahan is loading the gun with his 'tude in 2004 and 2005. He always acts classy otherwise, but something about us hillbillies just p!sses him off.

[JPNSKER]

They may be pleasant to you, but they hate your guts and think you're a bunch of classless morans. I work for a company based out of Lincoln and this is the overwhelming consensus of all the Husker fans I know. More proof that Nebbish fans know a lot about football. ;)

Spot on.:D We'll treat you right, but win or lose, we expect you to leave on Sunday!;)


I would also differ with the earlier post that there is hate between OU/NU. I wouldn't classify that as hate at all. At the time we're playing, maybe. After the game and during the rest of the season, not really at all. With saxeT it's hate 24/7.

Everyone in my age group (30's) and older, that I know, have tremendous respect for OU. During the 90's, I think we wanted OU back about as bad as you guy's. CU went and started to get good, but now that's back to normal. I remember coming down there in 97 and getting to the parking lot at first light. We had a great time with the OU fans before & after the game, regardless of the mismatch.

And, oh yeah, Sooners are welcome to hang around on Sunday's!:cool:

[CU Sooner]

We are talking about two different types of rivalries, Nebraska is a a cordial rivalry while the south is a hated rivalry. I would make the argument that if the game dates would have been flipped and we played orange in November and nebraska in October, more of the Dallas games would have had national title implications.
I think the southern rivalry is the biggest, it is played at a neutral site, and no matter the record this is the game I look forward to the most. I am 37 and the game I looked foward to more than any other was in October.
I have been to several OU/NU games (including several during the King's heyday) and the atmosphere does not compare to the other

[homerxsimpson]

Maybe someone with a longer (and better) memory than mine could tell me if there was any serious debate during the formation of the Big12 into fudging the alignment to allow Oklahoma to play in the North and therefore maintain the 'better' rivalry? And if so, which forces were argueing for it and which forces eventually won out against it?

[snp]

Oh come on guys, we all know our better rival is Oklahoma State.

:ducks:

[Funky G]

Let's face it, we respect and remember great Nebraska games with great fans. For the Texas game it's about listening to arrogant loud mouths.

National Championships: OU-7, NU-5, UT-4 Any questions?

[caphorns]

Maybe someone with a longer (and better) memory than mine could tell me if there was any serious debate during the formation of the Big12 into fudging the alignment to allow Oklahoma to play in the North and therefore maintain the 'better' rivalry? And if so, which forces were argueing for it and which forces eventually won out against it?

I'd pretty much imagine the forces that said we need to recruit the State of Texas with reckless abandon won out. Probably works out even though you guys pine for ye ole nice guy rivalry. ;)

[budbarrybob]

it's always required, says in the sooner manual.... chapter 2 paragraph 4 clause 1


Get an updated manual. The 2006 version has this in chapter 1 paragraph 2 clause 1. Incidentally, chapter 1 concerns itself with something about a little song called BOOMER SOONER.

[budbarrybob]

We are talking about two different types of rivalries, Nebraska is a a cordial rivalry while the south is a hated rivalry. I would make the argument that if the game dates would have been flipped and we played orange in November and nebraska in October, more of the Dallas games would have had national title implications.
I think the southern rivalry is the biggest, it is played at a neutral site, and no matter the record this is the game I look forward to the most. I am 37 and the game I looked foward to more than any other was in October.
I have been to several OU/NU games (including several during the King's heyday) and the atmosphere does not compare to the other

I belive he is on to it here. Its about the emotion induced by the game. On the one hand you have OU/NU game. This is much like gentlemen watching their horses in the Kentucky Derby. "Jolly good show it is!" "Well-matched playing" and so on. Mutual respect, dignity and admiration. On the other hand, OU/Whorns is much more like watching two Prize Fighters in the ring. "Kick his F'n Arse!" "Double up on those punches!"

I guess the question is... do you like Mint Julips or a shot of whiskey and a beer chaser :twinkies:

[Luthor]

I think the Texas/OU rivalry fire will die down a bit in the coming years, especially if the series ultimately ends up as home & home. Another hot factor that is going away is that OU is not taking nearly as many blue chip Texas HS players as in the past.

[sooneron]

I think the Texas/OU rivalry fire will die down a bit in the coming years, especially if the series ultimately ends up as home & home. Another hot factor that is going away is that OU is not taking nearly as many blue chip Texas HS players as in the past.
yeah, we're getting them N-A-T-I-O-N-A-L-L-Y!

If we beat you like you did to us last year, see 2 games of the previous 5 years, we start taking the texas kids again, it ebbs and flows.

[KyleUT]

I would make the argument that if the game dates would have been flipped and we played orange in November and nebraska in October, more of the Dallas games would have had national title implications.


A very, very good point.

It's interesting that throughout history, it's rare to see UT and OU up at the same time. It's always one or the other. I've never really come up with a real good explanation for it other than the recruiting of Texas kids angle, but I can't convince myself that that is the sole reason.

What's also interesting is our other rival who has actually done something of any national relevance (Arky), their best times occurred at the same time as some of our best times (60s). Conference affiliations making each other better? OU and UT are both definitely 'up' right now, at the same time...Big 12 south have anything to do with it?

Any other time in history we've both seen success like we have now in the same basic timeframes? mid-late 70's, early 80s is about all I can come up with -- and that's a bit of a stretch as again, our up years, were your down years and v-v. We had a shot at at least 2 MNCs (77, 83) that were taken from us in the CB, y'all were able to seal the deal in 74-75, 85.

[Luthor]

yeah, we're getting them N-A-T-I-O-N-A-L-L-Y!

If we beat you like you did to us last year, see 2 games of the previous 5 years, we start taking the texas kids again, it ebbs and flows.


That's probably a true axiom. Every hot shot HS kid wants to play for the "next national champion". and any team that has won one in recent history can crow louder than the next schlmiel who hasn't.