It looks like New Orleans bad luck continues

[Sooner24]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12872730/

[OUDoc]

Chocolate-y.

[jacru]

Mayor Ray "Chocolate" Nagin - "...This city will be chocolate at the end of the day," he said. "This city will be a majority African-American city. It's the way God wants it to be."

[SoonerDood]

if he was white he'd be lynched for that comment.

[Jimminy Crimson]

if he was white he'd be lynched for that comment.

You wouldn't understand...

:rolleyes:

[SicEmBaylor]

I like Nagin well enough. He was sure as hell better than Landrieu though Landrieu did give a decent concession.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Wonder what he's gonna do about THEM LEVEES!?!??

[Jimminy Crimson]

Wonder what he's gonna do about THEM LEVEES!?!??

Drive a Chevy out to them? :norm:

[Flagstaffsooner]

If it keeps on rainin', levee's goin' to break, [X2]
When The Levee Breaks I'll have no place to stay.

Mean old Nagin taught me to weep and moan, [X2]
Got what it takes to make a mountain man leave his home,
Oh, well, oh, well, oh, well.

Don't it make you feel bad
When you're tryin' to find your way home,
You don't know which way to go?
If you're goin' down South
They go no work to do,
If you don't know about Chicago.

Cryin' won't help you, prayin' won't do you no good,
Now, cryin' won't help you, prayin' won't do you no good,
When the levee breaks, mama, you got to move.

All last night sat on the levee and moaned, [X2]
Thinkin' about me baby and my happy home.
Going, going to Chicago... Going to Chicago... Sorry but I can't take you...
Going down... going down now... going down....

[Okla-homey]

Well, all I can say is Nagin was the lesser of two evils. Landreu is a member of a filthy rich and thoroughly corrupt LA political family. Nagin is an incompetent, but by all accounts, a reasonably honorable one.

[scaldeddawg]

I'm just glad I don't/didn't live over there. The place is still a ghost town, and I don't see it coming back anytime soon. Very eerie when you drive down I-10 through New Orleans East. Empty apartment buildings.

[Big Red Ron]

http://www.samsproductions.com/minivandad72/Blog%20Images/humor/Chocolate.jpg

[Sooner24]

Drive a Chevy out to them? :norm:



Or he could drive one of these down there.

http://www.brentmorrison.com/New_Orleans_buses.jpg

[Jerk]

Or he could drive one of these down there.

http://www.brentmorrison.com/New_Orleans_buses.jpg

It appears that Nagin got those things back in good running shape just before the election!

[TUSooner]

Well, all I can say is Nagin was the lesser of two evils. Landreu is a member of a filthy rich and thoroughly corrupt LA political family. Nagin is an incompetent, but by all accounts, a reasonably honorable one.
Homey = genius
You folks who only judge Nagin by a few regrettable soundbites, or according to what Rush tells you to think, or in 20/20 hindsight for some bad moves in a stunning and unprecedented catastrophe, JUST DON'T GET IT. Despite the advice of the South Ovaltines, I voted for Nagin. It was not without reservations. I seriously considered whether Landrieu's political connections could help the city and impress outsiders. But at the end of the day, I voted for Nagin because :
He is a plain-speaking man who has been in the trenches, while Landrieu represents the pre-Katrina political culture that allowed New Orleans to descend to the depths from which Nagin was raising it before the storm. Nagin's pre-K adminsitration was a legitimate refomist administration, and he had - and has -- the supprt of the business groups which are essential to serious long-term rebuilding.
As I have said, I see Mitch Landrieu as "Mr Meringue" -- white and fluffy, but mostly air. He is a the definition of a Career Politician: An avid talker, though a shallow orator of mediocre skills, with no "bottom" under the words. Practically his whole adult life has been schmoozing for votes... and campaign contributions. As far as I can tell, most of his supporters are plaintiffs' lawyers and the liberalish Uptown, dreamland, brie and chardonnay crowd -- NTTAWWT :D . I could see him at best as a quick-fix, whose adminstration would ultimately take NO back to the bad old days of a Democratic Party machine running on patronage and inefficiency for the sake of paying political debts.

In case you are interested, in Nagin's acceptance speech, he heartily and warmly thanked Pres Bush for sticking by his word to help New Orleans, and he enthusiastically called for unity and cooperation, pledging to work even with our stupid Governess, Kathleen Blanco - whom he thanked for what she was GOING to do. He said he and Bust were the "most vilified politicians in the country."
Bottom line: I feel better this morning for having voted for Nagin than when I actually pushed the button on the voting machine last Saturday.

[Scott D]

Ironically, Nagin got a large amount of the white vote, not as much as he got in the pre-Katrina election, but he still got a sizable amount.

But TU, you should know by now, everyone in politics is judged by a few sound bites on the South Oval. More people should think like my signature.

[SicEmBaylor]

Homey = genius
You folks who only judge Nagin by a few regrettable soundbites, or according to what Rush tells you to think, or in 20/20 hindsight for some bad moves in a stunning and unprecedented catastrophe, JUST DON'T GET IT. Despite the advice of the South Ovaltines, I voted for Nagin. It was not without reservations. I seriously considered whether Landrieu's political connections could help the city and impress outsiders. But at the end of the day, I voted for Nagin because :
He is a plain-speaking man who has been in the trenches, while Landrieu represents the pre-Katrina political culture that allowed New Orleans to descend to the depths from which Nagin was raising it before the storm. Nagin's pre-K adminsitration was a legitimate refomist administration, and he had - and has -- the supprt of the business groups which are essential to serious long-term rebuilding.
As I have said, I see Mitch Landrieu as "Mr Meringue" -- white and fluffy, but mostly air. He is a the definition of a Career Politician: An avid talker, though a shallow orator of mediocre skills, with no "bottom" under the words. Practically his whole adult life has been schmoozing for votes... and campaign contributions. As far as I can tell, most of his supporters are plaintiffs' lawyers and the liberalish Uptown, dreamland, brie and chardonnay crowd -- NTTAWWT :D . I could see him at best as a quick-fix, whose adminstration would ultimately take NO back to the bad old days of a Democratic Party machine running on patronage and inefficiency for the sake of paying political debts.

In case you are interested, in Nagin's acceptance speech, he heartily and warmly thanked Pres Bush for sticking by his word to help New Orleans, and he enthusiastically called for unity and cooperation, pledging to work even with our stupid Governess, Kathleen Blanco - whom he thanked for what she was GOING to do. He said he and Bust were the "most vilified politicians in the country."
Bottom line: I feel better this morning for having voted for Nagin than when I actually pushed the button on the voting machine last Saturday.

Spek to you because I totally agree with everything you said, and have tried making many of those same points to people who trash Nagin for a lot of things that were either not his fault or he had no control over. The guy made mistakes to be sure, but I put most of the blame on the shoulders of the state and Federal government (though I'm not a fan of Federal aid of any sort).

To give an example. As I understand it the EOC (Emergency Operations Center) in New Orleans was moved to a hotel and I've heard that Nagin did it just to save his own skin. That seems rather stupid to me, save his own skin from what exactly? If I remember correctly (and I may be wrong on these details) the EOC center was moved becuase the building they were in was partiall flooded and it had NO electricity, phone, or intenert access. They managed to find a hotel room that still had electricty, internet, and phone access so they moved the operation to this hotel room to take advantage of the communications. I remmeber this because city officials were sent to a CompUSA to "liberate" needed routing and network equipment.

I also remember Nagin clearly stating on TV time and time again everything he needed from the state and Federal government to do his job and in what priority. Then a couple of days later I see Blanco, and later Dir. Brown, on TV essentially saying they were unsure of exactly what New Orleans needed. I literally screamed at the TV saying, "Nagin told you what the hell he needed on TV two days ago!"

Well at any rate, the guy's not pefect certainly and there's room for criticism but he's sure as hell better than Landrieu and has unfairly taken a hell of a lot of flak.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Homey = genius
You folks who only judge Nagin by a few regrettable soundbites, or according to what Rush tells you to think...There you guys go again. It's obvious you don't listen to Rush very much, so why pretend you do? Do yourself a favor, and stop believing the uninformed opinions of those who don't actually listen to his show.
By the way, other than the above quote, I enjoyed your opinion and analysis of the election. If I was a NOLA person, I would not have voted for Landrieu, either. Good luck to you guys. The entire focus of govt. down there should be to build the levees to withstand category 5 storms, and then to let everyone know about it after it's accomplished.

[chriscappel]

the dude's a friggin idiot...How does he get away with sayin that? If i was to become mayor and say my town was gonna be all "Vanilla" i would be in some serious sh!t!!

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

the dude's a friggin idiot...How does he get away with sayin that? If i was to become mayor and say my town was gonna be all "Vanilla" i would be in some serious sh!t!!The choice was him or Landrieu, well explained by TU.

[Big Red Ron]

The choice was him or Landrieu, well explained by TU.But you listen to Rush Limbaugh, how in the hell could you have come to that semi-rational decision on your own?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

But you listen to Rush Limbaugh, how in the hell could you have come to that semi-rational decision on your own?HAHA, thanks, big guy.

[slickdawg]

Well, all I can say is Nagin was the lesser of two evils. Landreu is a member of a filthy rich and thoroughly corrupt LA political family. Nagin is an incompetent, but by all accounts, a reasonably honorable one.


Homey, I admire your study of the situation here.

Nagin had, prior to Katrina, done extensive work to clean up the
corruption of many previous administartions. He's actaully worked with
US Attorney Jim Letton in New Orleans to actually punish those that
have contributed to all of the waste, fraud and abuse in NOLA.

NOLA had made a lot of progress in the right direction prior to Katrina under
Nagin, but honestly, nobody could have really prepared for a disaster
on the magnitude of Katrina. Coastal MS and NOLA will never be the same.

Landrieu is the son of former NOLA mayor Moon Landrieu and brother of US Senator Mary Landrieu. They are a corrupt political family. Many of the problems in NOLA today regarding corruption stem from the days of Moon Landrieu's administration.

[Jerk]

I just don't understand why the anti-Rush crowd thinks we have to tune in the EIB show in order to 'know what to think.' Rush has never changed my opinion on anything, yet he seems to affirm what I believe about 80% of the time whilst doing it a little more eloquently (and entertaining) than I could. I remember when I started listening...it wasn't like "wow, this guy has some great ideas" Rather, is was "Hey, this dude thinks likes I do." And there was no one else like that in the media when he came out.

[slickdawg]

Homey = genius
You folks who only judge Nagin by a few regrettable soundbites, or according to what Rush tells you to think, or in 20/20 hindsight for some bad moves in a stunning and unprecedented catastrophe, JUST DON'T GET IT. Despite the advice of the South Ovaltines, I voted for Nagin. It was not without reservations. I seriously considered whether Landrieu's political connections could help the city and impress outsiders. But at the end of the day, I voted for Nagin because :
He is a plain-speaking man who has been in the trenches, while Landrieu represents the pre-Katrina political culture that allowed New Orleans to descend to the depths from which Nagin was raising it before the storm. Nagin's pre-K adminsitration was a legitimate refomist administration, and he had - and has -- the supprt of the business groups which are essential to serious long-term rebuilding.
As I have said, I see Mitch Landrieu as "Mr Meringue" -- white and fluffy, but mostly air. He is a the definition of a Career Politician: An avid talker, though a shallow orator of mediocre skills, with no "bottom" under the words. Practically his whole adult life has been schmoozing for votes... and campaign contributions. As far as I can tell, most of his supporters are plaintiffs' lawyers and the liberalish Uptown, dreamland, brie and chardonnay crowd -- NTTAWWT :D . I could see him at best as a quick-fix, whose adminstration would ultimately take NO back to the bad old days of a Democratic Party machine running on patronage and inefficiency for the sake of paying political debts.

In case you are interested, in Nagin's acceptance speech, he heartily and warmly thanked Pres Bush for sticking by his word to help New Orleans, and he enthusiastically called for unity and cooperation, pledging to work even with our stupid Governess, Kathleen Blanco - whom he thanked for what she was GOING to do. He said he and Bust were the "most vilified politicians in the country."
Bottom line: I feel better this morning for having voted for Nagin than when I actually pushed the button on the voting machine last Saturday.


AHEM! Who did I say vote for????????????????????????????

His two fisted dunk of Blanco was priceless.

Landrieu's statement "I don't even know why I ran, I just felt I needed to" shows you how much he really cares about NOLA.

My favorite moment last night, Nagin was giving his acceptance speech, and
some jackazz was acting a fool, and Nagin stops and says "would someone please put a muzzle on this brother next to me"

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I just don't understand why the anti-Rush crowd thinks we have to tune in the EIB show in order to 'know what to think.' Rush has never changed my opinion on anything, yet he seems to affirm what I believe about 80% of the time whilst doing it a little more eloquently (and entertaining) than I could. I remember when I started listening...it wasn't like "wow, this guy has some great ideas" Rather, is was "Hey, this dude thinks likes I do." And there was no one else like that in the media when he came out.For those of us who still haven't listened to him much, the above is EXACTLY why he is so popular. Someone on the national airwaves actually thinks like half or more of America, and is expressing his views. What a relief to so many of us.

[TUSooner]

the dude's a friggin idiot...How does he get away with sayin that? If i was to become mayor and say my town was gonna be all "Vanilla" i would be in some serious sh!t!!

Duhhh... It was not Nagin or Landrieu vs Jesus Christ. :rolleyes: Of course "choclate city" was stupid. One of Nagin's big flaws it talking before thinking. One of Landrieus' is overcalculating so much that his rhetoric sounds like, well, meringue.

And to Wm Favor - you make too much out of my mention of Rush. It was a throw-away example of some things that are not good bases for opinions. Maybe it was bad example, I dunno since I quit listening to Rush years ago. If it was a poor example, I withdraw it. Otherwise, Get Over It.
Also - I can't honestly say that I ALWAYS base my opinion on a carefuil evaluation of the soundest evidence.

In fairness, slickdawg = genius, too. He understood the Landrieu baggage.

In more fairness - lots of people I like and respect voted for Landrieu, I don't say they are fools, we just disagreed.

[TUSooner]

I just don't understand why the anti-Rush crowd thinks we have to tune in the EIB show in order to 'know what to think.' Rush has never changed my opinion on anything, yet he seems to affirm what I believe about 80% of the time whilst doing it a little more eloquently (and entertaining) than I could. I remember when I started listening...it wasn't like "wow, this guy has some great ideas" Rather, is was "Hey, this dude thinks likes I do." And there was no one else like that in the media when he came out.
Read my aside to Wm favor. Don't take it personally. I don't really give a rat's anus about Rush either way. And my point doesn't depend on slamming him. My point is that criticism of Nagin's flaws was not the whole story of the election.

[SicEmBaylor]

So what's New Orleans like now? TU, are you back in the city then? I assume you got your house all repaired. If I remember you had some roofing damage and the patio collapsed?

I mean when you drive around New Orleans today are there people there? Are business open? Are restaurants serving?

[Jerk]

For those of us who still haven't listened to him much, the above is EXACTLY why he is so popular. Someone on the national airwaves actually thinks like half or more of America, and is expressing his views. What a relief to so many of us.

Oh don't worry, I didn't take it personally. My opinion of this whole mess is taht you voted for the lesser of two evils..(well, not 'evil' but lets say you picked the 'least bad' canidate' ...which covers virtually every election anyway.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

.

And to Wm Favor - you make too much out of my mention of Rush. It was a throw-away example of some things that are not good bases for opinions. Maybe it was bad example, I dunno since I quit listening to Rush years ago. If it was a poor example, I withdraw it. Otherwise, Get Over It.

Getting the truth out on Rush Limbaugh is Important to me, because he is the VERY BEST spokesman for conservatives that I have ever seen. As Jerk said, he echoes our views brilliantly, and for him to be mischaracterized is a disservice to SO lurkers.

[Sooner24]

Well, all I can say is Nagin was the lesser of two evils. Landreu is a member of a filthy rich and thoroughly corrupt LA political family. Nagin is an incompetent, but by all accounts, a reasonably honorable one.


Gee I didn't know LA ever had any politicans that weren't corrupt.

They even make movies about them. :D


http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0001IM9B4.02._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

[Okla-homey]

That's cuz Ray Nagin wasn't a career politician. He actually made millions in the cable TV business before running for the mayor's office.

We should all be generally cautious of pols who never made an honest living before running for office, or are repeatedly re-elected and thus avoid having to do anything in the real world you and I live in. They tend to lose touch with reality. I think Washington pretty much set the standard. Two terms max and back to the farm. President, senator, rep, mayor, school board -- whatever.

[BigRedJed]

It looks like New Orleans bad luck continues...
I think it would be more appropriate to say "it looks like New Orleans is continuing to make its own bad luck."

I'm going to defer to TU, who knows the situation down there, and believe him when he says Nagin is more impressive in real life than in sound bites. I will also take your word for it when you say he wasn't part of the corruption, and was working for change.

If Landrieu truly was the asshat those of you with LA knowledge are suggesting, I'm glad Nagin won instead. But jeez, talk about the lesser of two evils.

I guess my point is, if Nagin was the best candidate at that point, the city deserves what it gets. Surely, surely someone could have thrown their hat into the ring who was more astute organizationally, and who didn't put his foot in his mouth to a catastropic level so often. I'm sorry, his tenure from where I'm sitting has pretty much screamed ineptness.

I still disagree with the postulation that the Katrina disaster was the fault and responsibility of the federal government. Years of corruption, diversion of federal levee funds by state and local authorities, EXTREMELY poor planning at the state and local level all created a situation that the federal government had to step in and try to fix, which it admittedly did a really, really poor job of.

It's easy to forget with all of the media coverage around NOLA, that a HUGE swath of gulf coastline was devastated. I'm not making excuses for the feds, but sometimes people act like they didn't have anything else to do besides take care of New Orleans.

I think it's fair for the federal government and citizens of the U.S. to expect individual states and cities to have some sort of disaster preparedness. The feds should be a backup and reinforcement to local disaster plans, and should be there to provide long-term assistance in the aftermath of huge disasters, such as this one, the biggest natural disaster ever in the U.S.

But locals should have plans for whatever nature or man deals them. They should PLAN on not having federal assistance for a few days after a disaster. It wasn't hard to dream up what could happen if a hurricane struck NOLA. I've heard about it my entire life, and I'm a casual observer who's never lived there.

The fact that that experts have recognized for decades what would happen if levees were breached and yet money continued to be diverted from those projects is in no uncertain terms criminal. The fact that there wasn't a well-thought-out evacuation plan for every man woman and child who lived in an area that was destined to flood in the event of such a disaster is unconscionable. The lack of a security plan for the public after an event that was anticipated to happen someday is unbelievable. The people responsible for that? State and local officials, and I guess on some level those that put them in office.

If you look at the response to other large scale disasters in this country, you can see examples of good planning and execution. Disaster-preparedness drills. Worst-case scenario planning. Locally, it happened here in '99 with the May 3 tornado. We saw it in New York in 2001. Cities that were prepared for the worst. No question, NOLA in many ways dwarfed those in physical scale. Yes, I know NOLA to some extent. Yes, I've seen aerials, and graphic representations showing the scale. One of my employees lost his brother in the aftermath, and his family lost everything. He's been back, and described to me how bad it was.

No, I probably still don't get the scale of the devastation. But I still believe the resulting confusion and fatalities could in many instances been avoided, if only NOLA voters would put officials in office that thought and acted more like officials in other cities and states.

I guess if you always party like there's no tomorrow, one day there will be no tomorrow.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I think it would be more appropriate to say "it looks like New Orleans is continuing to make its own bad luck."

I'm going to defer to TU, who knows the situation down there, and believe him when he says Nagin is more impressive in real life than in sound bites. I will also take your word for it when you say he wasn't part of the corruption, and was working for change.

If Landrieu truly was the asshat those of you with LA knowledge are suggesting, I'm glad Nagin won instead. But jeez, talk about the lesser of two evils.

I guess my point is, if Nagin was the best candidate at that point, the city deserves what it gets. Surely, surely someone could have thrown their hat into the ring who was more astute organizationally, and who didn't put his foot in his mouth to a catastropic level so often. I'm sorry, his tenure from where I'm sitting has pretty much screamed ineptness.

I still disagree with the postulation that the Katrina disaster was the fault and responsibility of the federal government. Years of corruption, diversion of federal levee funds by state and local authorities, EXTREMELY poor planning at the state and local level all created a situation that the federal government had to step in and try to fix, which it admittedly did a really, really poor job of.

It's easy to forget with all of the media coverage around NOLA, that a HUGE swath of gulf coastline was devastated. I'm not making excuses for the feds, but sometimes people act like they didn't have anything else to do besides take care of New Orleans.

I think it's fair for the federal government and citizens of the U.S. to expect individual states and cities to have some sort of disaster preparedness. The feds should be a backup and reinforcement to local disaster plans, and should be there to provide long-term assistance in the aftermath of huge disasters, such as this one, the biggest natural disaster ever in the U.S.

But locals should have plans for whatever nature or man deals them. They should PLAN on not having federal assistance for a few days after a disaster. It wasn't hard to dream up what could happen if a hurricane struck NOLA. I've heard about it my entire life, and I'm a casual observer who's never lived there.

The fact that that experts have recognized for decades what would happen if levees were breached and yet money continued to be diverted from those projects is in no uncertain terms criminal. The fact that there wasn't a well-thought-out evacuation plan for every man woman and child who lived in an area that was destined to flood in the event of such a disaster is unconscionable. The lack of a security plan for the public after an event that was anticipated to happen someday is unbelievable. The people responsible for that? State and local officials, and I guess on some level those that put them in office.

If you look at the response to other large scale disasters in this country, you can see examples of good planning and execution. Disaster-preparedness drills. Worst-case scenario planning. Locally, it happened here in '99 with the May 3 tornado. We saw it in New York in 2001. Cities that were prepared for the worst. No question, NOLA in many ways dwarfed those in physical scale. Yes, I know NOLA to some extent. Yes, I've seen aerials, and graphic representations showing the scale. One of my employees lost his brother in the aftermath, and his family lost everything. He's been back, and described to me how bad it was.

No, I probably still don't get the scale of the devastation. But I still believe the resulting confusion and fatalities could in many instances been avoided, if only NOLA voters would put officials in office that thought and acted more like officials in other cities and states.

I guess if you always party like there's no tomorrow, one day there will be no tomorrow.BRILLIANT! If you wrote that all by yourself, you should feel proud. Have it published, and put on the front page of the Times-Picayune, and the Baton rouge paper, too. Congrats!

[TUSooner]

Getting the truth out on Rush Limbaugh is Important to me, because he is the VERY BEST spokesman for conservatives that I have ever seen. As Jerk said, he echoes our views brilliantly, and for him to be mischaracterized is a disservice to SO lurkers.
Well, I still think you are overreacting and taking Rush and my previous posts too seriously. :P I was just citing Rush as an example of the media having a field day with Nagin's "greatest hits" and how that might be all some people heard about the mayor's race.

I used to listen to Rush all the time; I just got tired of the talk and the schtik in general, even though I agreed with about 93.7 % of his opinions.

Did he ever say who he would vote for if he lived in New Orleans? My guess is he would have held his nose and voted for Ray Nagin in the runoff.

[Sooner24]

BRILLIANT! If you wrote that all by yourself, you should feel proud. Have it published, and put on the front page of the Times-Picayune, and the Baton rouge paper, too. Congrats!



I agree!

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I used to listen to Rush all the time; I just got tired of the talk and the schtik in general, even though I agreed with about 93.7 % of his opinions.

Did he ever say who he would vote for if he lived in New Orleans? My guess is he would have held his nose and voted for Ray Nagin in the runoff.I don't remember hearing him discuss the mayor's race, but I would tend to agree with you. He cerainly isn't a fan of any LA politician that I know of, except Billy Tauzin(sp?) who changed parties back in the '90's. He was/is a US congressman.

[Flagstaffsooner]

I still disagree with the postulation that the Katrina disaster was the fault and responsibility of the federal government. Years of corruption, diversion of federal levee funds by state and local authorities, EXTREMELY poor planning at the state and local level all created a situation that the federal government had to step in and try to fix, which it admittedly did a really, really poor job of.

Mr Jed hit it on the head!

[TUSooner]

I think it would be more appropriate to say "it looks like New Orleans is continuing to make its own bad luck."

I'm going to defer to TU, who knows the situation down there, and believe him when he says Nagin is more impressive in real life than in sound bites. I will also take your word for it when you say he wasn't part of the corruption, and was working for change.

If Landrieu truly was the asshat those of you with LA knowledge are suggesting, I'm glad Nagin won instead. But jeez, talk about the lesser of two evils.

I guess my point is, if Nagin was the best candidate at that point, the city deserves what it gets. Surely, surely someone could have thrown their hat into the ring who was more astute organizationally, and who didn't put his foot in his mouth to a catastropic level so often. I'm sorry, his tenure from where I'm sitting has pretty much screamed ineptness.

I still disagree with the postulation that the Katrina disaster was the fault and responsibility of the federal government. Years of corruption, diversion of federal levee funds by state and local authorities, EXTREMELY poor planning at the state and local level all created a situation that the federal government had to step in and try to fix, which it admittedly did a really, really poor job of.

It's easy to forget with all of the media coverage around NOLA, that a HUGE swath of gulf coastline was devastated. I'm not making excuses for the feds, but sometimes people act like they didn't have anything else to do besides take care of New Orleans.

I think it's fair for the federal government and citizens of the U.S. to expect individual states and cities to have some sort of disaster preparedness. The feds should be a backup and reinforcement to local disaster plans, and should be there to provide long-term assistance in the aftermath of huge disasters, such as this one, the biggest natural disaster ever in the U.S.

But locals should have plans for whatever nature or man deals them. They should PLAN on not having federal assistance for a few days after a disaster. It wasn't hard to dream up what could happen if a hurricane struck NOLA. I've heard about it my entire life, and I'm a casual observer who's never lived there.

The fact that that experts have recognized for decades what would happen if levees were breached and yet money continued to be diverted from those projects is in no uncertain terms criminal. The fact that there wasn't a well-thought-out evacuation plan for every man woman and child who lived in an area that was destined to flood in the event of such a disaster is unconscionable. The lack of a security plan for the public after an event that was anticipated to happen someday is unbelievable. The people responsible for that? State and local officials, and I guess on some level those that put them in office.

If you look at the response to other large scale disasters in this country, you can see examples of good planning and execution. Disaster-preparedness drills. Worst-case scenario planning. Locally, it happened here in '99 with the May 3 tornado. We saw it in New York in 2001. Cities that were prepared for the worst. No question, NOLA in many ways dwarfed those in physical scale. Yes, I know NOLA to some extent. Yes, I've seen aerials, and graphic representations showing the scale. One of my employees lost his brother in the aftermath, and his family lost everything. He's been back, and described to me how bad it was.

No, I probably still don't get the scale of the devastation. But I still believe the resulting confusion and fatalities could in many instances been avoided, if only NOLA voters would put officials in office that thought and acted more like officials in other cities and states.

I guess if you always party like there's no tomorrow, one day there will be no tomorrow.
There's actually a lot to agree with in that post. But you act like it's so simple to fix everything - "if they would only be like everybody else." IMHO, the two best candidates (of the original 27 or 28) kept each other out of the run-off. King Arthur (with Excalbur) was a no-show. That's kind-of how politics works sometime.

I could be proved wrong; time will tell. As I was saying, I went back and forth more than once, and most of my friends are ardent Landrieu supporters. I don't vilify him or his family or even think they are necessarily "corrupt" - whatever that exactly means in politics. But, however ironic it seems, Nagin is the candidate that's most like "everybody else" compared to dyed in the wool Loozyana Democrat Landrieu.

[Sooner24]

There's actually a lot to agree with in that post. But you act like it's so simple to fix everything - "if they would only be like everybody else." IMHO, the two best candidates (of the original 27 or 28) kept each other out of the run-off. King Arthur (with Excalbur) was a no-show. That's kind-of how politics works sometime.

I could be proved wrong; time will tell. As I was saying, I went back and forth more than once, and most of my friends are ardent Landrieu supporters. I don't vilify him or his family or even think they are necessarily "corrupt" - whatever that exactly means in politics. But, however ironic it seems, Nagin is the candidate that's most like "everybody else" compared to dyed in the wool Loozyana Democrat Landrieu.


That's a good reason right there not to live in NOLA. :D

[scaldeddawg]

It's easy to forget with all of the media coverage around NOLA, that a HUGE swath of gulf coastline was devastated.


Yep. This was my house in Mississippi. I was "lucky" and still had a structure. Most people down in Waveland/Bay St.Louis had a slab to return to:

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9278/katrina14ug.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/2902/katrina27ft.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/6972/katrina33zo.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/3596/katrina43cj.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/1702/katrina57sl.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[TUSooner]

Yep. This was my house in Mississippi. I was "lucky" and still had a structure. Most people down in Waveland/Bay St.Louis had a slab to return to:


That's really a tough deal, man. Very sorry to learn that.
But at least Mississippi has "normal" voters & politicians. :D

[Scott D]

Why none of you ever told wm fav. to just start a new thread praising the greatness of Limbaugh instead of muddying up this thread extolling his virtues is beyond me.

The problem with how we're basing anything on Nagin is based upon a few soundbites over a problem within a relatively short period of time. While most of us agree that he acted and said more than a few things inappropriately, I think some of us at least can understand the frustration and exasperation that he clearly felt at periods during this.

The problem is, you can't necessarily blame him for the levee situation, because clearly that problem went back well before his first tenure as mayor. Anyone who thinks that just by electing someone new that they can wave a magic wand and make all of the problems created by prior administrations go away is living in Political Fantasyland (tm).

At this point it's probably best to judge him on the reconstruction of the greater New Orleans area in the aftermath of Katrina. That is why the people re-elected him, and that is what his legacy will be judged by.

[TUSooner]

Why none of you ever told wm fav. to just start a new thread praising the greatness of Limbaugh instead of muddying up this thread extolling his virtues is beyond me.

The problem with how we're basing anything on Nagin is based upon a few soundbites over a problem within a relatively short period of time. While most of us agree that he acted and said more than a few things inappropriately, I think some of us at least can understand the frustration and exasperation that he clearly felt at periods during this.

The problem is, you can't necessarily blame him for the levee situation, because clearly that problem went back well before his first tenure as mayor. Anyone who thinks that just by electing someone new that they can wave a magic wand and make all of the problems created by prior administrations go away is living in Political Fantasyland (tm).

At this point it's probably best to judge him on the reconstruction of the greater New Orleans area in the aftermath of Katrina. That is why the people re-elected him, and that is what his legacy will be judged by.
SPEK! (Or at least ymssra....) :O

I did think about starting another thread called "THIS is the Rush Limbaugh thread." :D :twinkies:

[Scott D]

I'm actually interested to see how he leads going forward. While I'm not going to give him a free pass for the way he handled Katrina, I will give some benefit of the doubt because of the high amount of frustration and anxiety that I could see emanating from him in those early interviews.

Ironically, it's funny that people hang so much on how he says things. At least he doesn't have the soundbites of a career politician.

[TUSooner]

I'm actually interested to see how he leads going forward. While I'm not going to give him a free pass for the way he handled Katrina, I will give some benefit of the doubt because of the high amount of frustration and anxiety that I could see emanating from him in those early interviews.

Ironically, it's funny that people hang so much on how he says things. At least he doesn't have the soundbites of a career politician.
Flush with victory last night, he certainly sounded like he was ready to get to work. It'll be a long haul, with the next mayor after him having plenty to do as well.

[Sooner24]

SPEK! (Or at least ymssra....) :O

I did think about starting another thread called "THIS is the Rush Limbaugh thread." :D :twinkies:


Gee, it seems you were the first one to bring up Rush in this thread. :rolleyes:

[TUSooner]

Gee, it seems you were the first one to bring up Rush in this thread. :rolleyes:
So I mentioned him in passing, but I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition.

[Sooner24]

Ironically, it's funny that people hang so much on how he says things. At least he doesn't have the soundbites of a career politician.


Nope a career idiot.

As he put it, the Calvary did not come.

Well sometimes in the old west Ray they saddled up their horses (in this case buses) and got the hell outta Dodge. What you have in NOLA now is someone that is going to be crying to Washington every chance he gets on tv (Meet the Press etc.) about how they are not getting enough money or help from Washington. :rolleyes:

[Sooner24]

So I mentioned him in passing, but I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition.


Once Pandoras box is opened you can't close it. :D

[Scott D]

Nope a career idiot.

As he put it, the Calvary did not come.

Well sometimes in the old west Ray they saddled up their horses (in this case buses) and got the hell outta Dodge. What you have in NOLA now is someone that is going to be crying to Washington every chance he gets on tv (Meet the Press etc.) about how they are not getting enough money or help from Washington. :rolleyes:

Well where do you suggest the money to rebuild New Orleans comes from with at this point less than half the population having returned, and waiting themselves on the funds from insurance companies to come in to rebuild their homes..provided they had flood insurance in the first place?

[Sooner24]

I said Ray will cry it's not enough not that it won't come from the Beltway teat.

[Scott D]

and if he doesn't? Rather, I'd expect most of the request to deal with proper funding for the levees.

[Sooner24]

and if he doesn't? Rather, I'd expect most of the request to deal with proper funding for the levees.


Then I will appauld the man if he doesn't.

It's a shame that the millions of dollars that were sent to LA over the years to reinforce the levees never got spent for that. What a state. :rolleyes:

[sooner_born_1960]

So I mentioned him in passing, but I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition.
NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! Amongst our weaponry are such diverse elements as: fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope, and nice red uniforms - Oh damn!

[Sooner24]

NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! Amongst our weaponry are such diverse elements as: fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope, and nice red uniforms - Oh damn!


http://snoopygal.com/inquis1.jpg

[BigRedJed]

...The problem is, you can't necessarily blame him for the levee situation, because clearly that problem went back well before his first tenure as mayor. Anyone who thinks that just by electing someone new that they can wave a magic wand and make all of the problems created by prior administrations go away is living in Political Fantasyland (tm).

At this point it's probably best to judge him on the reconstruction of the greater New Orleans area in the aftermath of Katrina. That is why the people re-elected him, and that is what his legacy will be judged by.
Nope, I don't blame him for the levee situation. That was due to decades of corruption. Damn near a century of head-in-the-sand. I only mentioned the levees to illustrate my point that in many ways NOLA makes its own bad luck.

I blame Nagin for the lack of reasonable disaster preparedness plan. He was (is) the chief executive of a city that was a well-known ticking time bomb. There should have been multiple layers of planning for exactly what happened. Should it have also been done by his predecessors? Absolutely. Upon his swearing in, he should have been handed reams of information on what to do in case of such an emergency. But once he got into office and found out there was no responsible plan, he should have made sure there was one.

Don't say that hindsight is 20/20. I have heard my entire life how NO would be under water in the case of a direct strike from a hurricane. So has everyone on this board, I'm sure. This wasn't even a direct strike. I always thought about what a shame it would be for all of that great architecture to be lost, never even THINKING about the number of people that would be killed, because, frankly I assumed there was a comprehensive evacuation plan for them. How could there not be?

If what TU says is true, I probably would have held my nose and voted for Nagin in the runoff too. I agree that his legacy will be the recovery or lack thereof of New Orleans. But I also believe a part of his legacy is many of the people who needlessly died and suffered from a lack of adequate planning.

[Scott D]

yeah but Jed, that becomes a blame game. Who gets the blame...where was the breakdown in the sytem. Was it Federal to State, State to Local, or Local itself. As a mayor he may not have had the authority to bus people out on those school busses that Tuba loves to show, if those busses are owned by the county or the state. He'd likely need state approval.

I think the problem here is that too much of the contingency plan relied on the State, and let's be honest....Blanco couldn't have drawn more of a blank on the matter than she did. She showed herself to be far more incompentent than Nagin ever could have hoped to show himself being despite his frustrated outbursts.

If that woman manages to get re-elected in La. then things in the state as a whole will likely get worse.

[BigRedJed]

I couldn't agree more about Blanco. I think she's horrible. But shouldn't the city and the state have worked out those kinds of details BEFOREHAND? Frankly, they had an obligation to. Everyone knew NOLA was a time bomb. They're all to blame, Scott.

All I'm saying is that it's a shame someone impressive couldn't appear from the wings to replace EVERYONE responsible for the situation they found themselves in. But alas, apparently no one will, so it will be business as usual.

Tough luck for one of my favorite cities.

[Scott D]

Oh I agree everyone's to blame in this....but sometimes I almost feel like the City was like that girl waiting for her prom date to show up to pick her up, but the State being that prom date ended up passed out drunk across town when he should have been taking that girl to the prom, and she's now standing out in the rain in front of her house.

I think to a degree the "best and the brightest" left NOLA and if they've had the time and inclination to plant roots elsewhere, then they will remain elsewhere.

[scaldeddawg]

I think to a degree the "best and the brightest" left NOLA and if they've had the time and inclination to plant roots elsewhere, then they will remain elsewhere.

Exactly right. Sadly, there's just not a plethora of qualified people. And now it's even worse with hundreds of thousands gone.