McCain protest

[Jerk]

So Sen. McCain goes to a school graduation ceremony in NYC and gets protested and heckled. No big deal, I'm not a McCain fan anyway. Yet the news-reader states that some of the protesters were throwing paper airplanes at McCain. Could this be poking fun at McCain for being shot down in Vietnam? These 'protestors' are lower than plankton. My hatred for the far left is growing more and more each day- and I have friends here who are 'liberal' and I ain't talking about you- I'm talking about hard-core communists. Yeah, you can disagree with the war in Iraq or you can hate freedom and capitalism, but have some friggin' decency. I mean, here we have an elected official representing a state (Arizona) who is a war veteran and a former POW who was tortured, and they yell, heckle, throw trash, and turn their backs on him when he was gracious enough to speak at a commencement? Did I say I FUGGING HATE THESE PEOPLE?

[King Crimson]

McCain is one politico who is right about the FCC.

and preserving spectrum space for local and independent broadcasters...instead of selling (errrr... i mean licensing it) it all to Clear Channel.

slightly off topic, sorry.

[VeeJay]

Sad that these paper airplane throwers have been molly-coddled and brought up during the largest peacetime economic expansion of the economy in our nation's history, and this is the result.

The asswipes do not have any clue.

[AlbqSooner]

During the Viet Nam era Secretary of Defense Robert McNamar was pelted with marshmallows at a speaking engagement. Nothing new here.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

The sad part is most of them think that way just because others just told them that they go to a "liberal" school and thats the way your supposed to think and act

[walkoffsooner]

Everyone should like him he is a dem. and rep.

[slickdawg]

I surprised the ingrates didn't throw bamboo chutes at him.

I hote a**holes like that. RESPECT OUR MILITARY DAMMIT!

[jacru]

McCain is an http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/9587/jackass7mm.jpg


and it ticks me that he bears the name Republican.

[OklahomaTuba]

I respect him, but he sure ****es me off on certain things.

And protestors like this are great. They do more to marginalize and destroy support for what they want then any opposing argument could. They are there own worst enemies, and they are too stupid to realize it.

[MamaMia]

That was really bad manners on their part but I'm not at all surprised. New York is full of people with that type of behavior.

[Hatfield]

so you really think they were throwing airplanes as a sign of his being shot down?

more telling about you really.

if you are going to throw something (which I don't condone) and that something is paper....the best course is the airplane to ensure it goes to your target.

and I agree with some of the students that were angered that he tried to use their commencement as his platform....jerk you shouldn't give mccain a free pass to wax political at their commencement regardless of his past. That is every bit as disrespectful as what they were doing to him.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

so you really think they were throwing airplanes as a sign of his being shot down?


...jerk you shouldn't give mccain a free pass to wax political at their commencement regardless of his past. That is every bit as disrespectful as what they were doing to him.So, why were they throwing airplanes? Do you know what he said in his commencement address?

[Hatfield]

my guess would be that a paper airplane will travel farther (properly constructed of course) than a mere wadded piece of paper....at least it did during 5th grade science class....

as far as what he spoke about, I believe the topics that insulted the students were when he felt the need to speak about iraq and other talking points.

[Jerk]

Oh, look who's here, Comrad Hatfield is here to enlighten us.

[slickdawg]

Maybe it was the 2006 Paper Airplane world championships ongoing at the same time?

[Hatfield]

do you just look at handles and ignore what is actually being said?

I respect McCain. I don't believe the students should have thrown things at him. I also don't believe he should have used THEIR commencement to push political talking points.

Both sides were wrong in this. One student held up a sign that read "Our commencement is not your platform"...hard to disagree.

[Jerk]

do you just look at handles and ignore what is actually being said?

I respect McCain. I don't believe the students should have thrown things at him. I also don't believe he should have used THEIR commencement to push political talking points.

Both sides were wrong in this. One student held up a sign that read "Our commencement is not your platform"...hard to disagree.

I'm not sure, but wasn't he INVITED?

[Octavian]

So Sen. McCain goes to a school graduation ceremony in NYC and gets protested and heckled. No big deal, I'm not a McCain fan anyway. Yet the news-reader states that some of the protesters were throwing paper airplanes at McCain. Could this be poking fun at McCain for being shot down in Vietnam? These 'protestors' are lower than plankton. My hatred for the far left is growing more and more each day- and I have friends here who are 'liberal' and I ain't talking about you- I'm talking about hard-core communists. Yeah, you can disagree with the war in Iraq or you can hate freedom and capitalism, but have some friggin' decency. I mean, here we have an elected official representing a state (Arizona) who is a war veteran and a former POW who was tortured, and they yell, heckle, throw trash, and turn their backs on him when he was gracious enough to speak at a commencement? Did I say I FUGGING HATE THESE PEOPLE?

The newest category of hate-America-first communists: Young people who manipulate paper into a flying device and toss it

http://img487.imageshack.us/img487/3307/chillpill4mw.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[Hatfield]

I'm not sure, but wasn't he INVITED?

yes. He was invited. I wasn't aware that was at issue. He was asked to give a commencement speech not give a political rally laden with his party's talking points...really all i am getting at.

he is a good man that has been through a lot and I am sure he could have spent his time stumping delivering a hell of a speech that was relevant to the commencement proceedings

[Sooner24]

my guess would be that a paper airplane will travel farther (properly constructed of course) than a mere wadded piece of paper....at least it did during 5th grade science class....

as far as what he spoke about, I believe the topics that insulted the students were when he felt the need to speak about iraq and other talking points.


You mean like Clinton, Gore and Kerry all going to speak at black churches and talking about their agendas? :rolleyes:

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

my guess would be that a paper airplane will travel farther (properly constructed of course) than a mere wadded piece of paper....at least it did during 5th grade science class....

as far as what he spoke about, I believe the topics that insulted the students were when he felt the need to speak about iraq and other talking points.Kind of like the perky Katie speech, I would like to see a transcript before judging it. The difference, however, is that McCain has a political job, and might be expected to talk politics. Whereas Couric is, IMO, in a job where you don't expect her to talk about politics.
Besides, as inconsistent and unpredictable as McCain is, he could have spoken against the war as easily as for it.

[Hatfield]

You mean like Clinton, Gore and Kerry all going to speak at black churches and talking about their agendas? :rolleyes:

i wasn't aware clinton, gore, and kerry spoke at this commencement in addition to McCain. You know the one we are actually talking about?

[TUSooner]

What those jerks,. er, idiots ( :D ) did was just plain wrong. Buncha spoiled brats who haven't even learned that there's no Santa Claus.
Ooohh, sorry for the spoiler, Howzit.

[OklahomaTuba]

Why doesn't it surprise me to see Hat defend the asshat anti-American leftists throwing paper airplanes at a war hero who was shot down.

Those tolerant and openminded liberal bastards.

[Hatfield]

tuba your lack of reading comprehension is outstanding.

I have said that both sides were wrong in this instance. I have "defended" nobody. Show me where I have said otherwise.

I will wait here for you to spread more of your lies.

[Hatfield]

and the only people i have seen connect the dots between the paper airplane and mccain being shot down are 2 crazies on a sooner message board desperately searching for something that just isn't there.

[TUSooner]

tuba your lack of reading comprehension is outstanding.

I have said that both sides were wrong in this instance. Show me where I have said otherwise.

I will wait here for you to spread more of your lies.
I usually agree with you on loits of stuff, but really, WTF is McCain supposed to talk about? If they wanted some bland old schmaltz about "your future is all ahead of you" they could have got [insert one of a zillion names here]. Or maybe they should just write a script for him and have him read it. I don't see how he did anything wrong. If you hire me to talk, be ready to hear what I have to say. (Which probably explains why nobody hires me to talk.)

[Sooner24]

i wasn't aware clinton, gore, and kerry spoke at this commencement in addition to McCain. You know the one we are actually talking about?


I wasn't aware that McCain spoke at a black church. :rolleyes:

[OklahomaTuba]

Maybe defend itsn't the right word, perhaps making excuses for them rather?

Either way, its sickening.

Its obvious the whole idea of respect, class and history is missing to these thumbsucking prettyboy elitists dumb***ks, wouldn't you say Hat?

[NYSooner1355]

and I agree with some of the students that were angered that he tried to use their commencement as his platform....jerk you shouldn't give mccain a free pass to wax political at their commencement regardless of his past. That is every bit as disrespectful as what they were doing to him.

give me an effing break...if you invite a pol to your commencement what do you expect to get? of course you're going to get a "platform"

when Hillary spoke at my graduation last week, do you not think it was political??? You're damn right it was, and more than half the idiot-sheeple at my commencement were LOVING IT...

my wife is the least into politics person I know and she even stated that Hillary gave a "campaign speech" - lots of sunshine-y promises she was going to push for us new graduates...

The best comment I saw about this McCain speech was someone said to a reporter after the commencement and said that "It's not uncommon on a liberal campus that free speech is a theory in the classroom only,"

[olevetonahill]

It donmeannuthin.
Ive come to the conclusion that several would have been on the Berkley Protest agenda , 1 or 2 would have defended the Returning vets , The majority would have just not said a damn thing .
thanks for supporting OUR troops Now :cool:

[Scott D]

I find it completely ironic that the same people who were so against Katie Couric speaking at OU's commencement come out of the woodwork to defend McCain using a commencement speech as a platform for politics, which is exactly what pre-speech they were accusing Couric of allegedly planning to do.

[Sooner24]

Is Katie a politician and did they throw anything at Katie?

[Scott D]

I'm not even going to bother to defend their actions, I know they are pathetic and spineless. I just always think it's amusing to pile on someone when it suits partisanship, and to ignore the hypocracy when the shoe is on the other foot.

Hat never defended what they did. All he said was that they MAY have used the paper airplane shapes because from an aerodynamic viewpoint they would go FARTHER than paper crumpled into balls, which is completely viable. That may not have been the case, and it may very well be based on the conspiracy theory that is going on in this thread.

Either way the finger pointing that goes on here is so laughable, it could almost be SNL content....because nobody laughs at that crap either.

[Sooner24]

I never once said it was because he was shot down in Nam. And I'm not pointing any fingers I just wondered what office Katie is running for.

[Scott D]

I'm not referring to you with the accusations, but rather the 'usual suspects' (aka Jerk, Tuba, william favor) whom were up in arms over Couric being the commencement speaker, and them being positive that she was going to use the moment to further her 'dirty libz agenda' and make her speech all political and take multiple shots at the administration..because you know, that's what 'dirty libz' do.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I'm not referring to you with the accusations, but rather the 'usual suspects' (aka Jerk, Tuba, william favor) whom were up in arms over Couric being the commencement speaker, and them being positive that she was going to use the moment to further her 'dirty libz agenda' and make her speech all political and take multiple shots at the administration..because you know, that's what 'dirty libz' do.The criticism was aimed at OU, for hiring an open lib as commencement speaker. If she didn't take political shots, the graduates got lucky.
Anytime someone takes an unfair shot at Limbaugh, or mischaracterizes his polularity or fans, I will endeavor to point out the error. If he ever becomes the extremist his detractors wish he was, I will stop defending him. As you know, I've started Limbaugh threads, and will likely do it again if conditions warrant.

[Jerk]

I'm not referring to you with the accusations, but rather the 'usual suspects' (aka Jerk, Tuba, william favor) whom were up in arms over Couric being the commencement speaker, and them being positive that she was going to use the moment to further her 'dirty libz agenda' and make her speech all political and take multiple shots at the administration..because you know, that's what 'dirty libz' do.

I don't think I had anything to say about the Couric address.

Hey, scott, speaking of the OU/Couric thing, you didn't see any right wingers going down there and acting like arsehats, did you? I mean, I didn't see no one throwing stuff, yelling, heckling, or whatever it is that pothead hippie commies do at a conservative's speach.

'The usual suspects' , eh? - Sounds like canidates for re-education camp in a future socialist America.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

so you really think they were throwing airplanes as a sign of his being shot down?

more telling about you really.

if you are going to throw something (which I don't condone) and that something is paper....the best course is the airplane to ensure it goes to your target.

and I agree with some of the students that were angered that he tried to use their commencement as his platform....jerk you shouldn't give mccain a free pass to wax political at their commencement regardless of his past. That is every bit as disrespectful as what they were doing to him.

Yes, but the pointy tips of the airplanes could put your eye out! ;)

[sooner n houston]

'Let Us Argue'
The speech the Angry Left tried to suppress.

BY JOHN MCCAIN
Monday, May 22, 2006 12:01 a.m. EDT

(Editor's note: Mr. McCain delivered this commencement address at the New School in New York Friday. A related editorial appears here.)

Thank you, Bob [Kerrey, president of the New School]. Thank you, faculty, families and friends, and thank you New School Class of 2006 for your welcome and for your kind invitation to give this year's commencement address. I want to join in the chorus of congratulations to the Class of 2006. This is a day to bask in praise. You've earned it. You have succeeded in a demanding course of instruction. Life seems full of promise as is always the case when a passage in life is marked by significant accomplishment. Today, it might seem as if the world attends you.

But spare a moment for those who have truly attended you so well for so long, and whose pride in your accomplishments is even greater than your own--your parents. When the world was looking elsewhere, your parents' attention was one of life's certainties. So, as I commend you, I offer equal praise to your parents for the sacrifices they made for you, for their confidence in you, and their love. More than any other influence in your lives, they have helped make you the success you are today and might become tomorrow.

Thousands of commencement addresses are given every year, many by people with greater eloquence and more original minds than I possess. And it's difficult on such occasions to avoid resorting to clichés. So let me just say that I wish you all well. This is a wonderful time to be young, and to have your opportunities. Make the most of them.

When I was in your situation, many, many years ago, an undistinguished graduate--barely--of the Naval Academy, I listened to President Eisenhower deliver the commencement address. I admired President Eisenhower greatly. But I remember little of his remarks that day, impatient as I was to enjoy the less formal celebrations of graduation, and mindful that given my class standing I would not have the privilege of shaking the President's hand. I do recall, vaguely, that he encouraged his audience of new navy ensigns and Marine lieutenants to become "crusaders for peace."

I became an aviator and, eventually, an instrument of war in Vietnam. I believed, as did many of my friends, we were defending the cause of a just peace. Some Americans believed we were agents of American imperialism who were not overly troubled by the many tragedies of war and the difficult moral dilemmas that constantly confront soldiers. Ours is a noisy, contentious society, and always has been, for we love our liberties much. And among those liberties we love most, particularly so when we are young, is our right to self-expression. That passion for self-expression sometimes overwhelms our civility, and our presumption that those with whom we have strong disagreements, wrong as they might be, believe that they, too, are answering the demands of their conscience.

When I was a young man, I was quite infatuated with self-expression, and rightly so, because, if memory conveniently serves, I was so much more eloquent, well-informed, and wiser than anyone else I knew. It seemed I understood the world and the purpose of life so much more profoundly than most people. I believed that to be especially true with many of my elders, people whose only accomplishment, as far as I could tell, was that they had been born before me, and, consequently, had suffered some number of years deprived of my insights. I had opinions on everything, and I was always right. I loved to argue, and I could become understandably belligerent with people who lacked the grace and intelligence to agree with me. With my superior qualities so obvious, it was an intolerable hardship to have to suffer fools gladly. So I rarely did. All their resistance to my brilliantly conceived and cogently argued views proved was that they possessed an inferior intellect and a weaker character than God had blessed me with, and I felt it was my clear duty to so inform them. It's a pity that there wasn't a blogosphere then. I would have felt very much at home in the medium.

It's funny, now, how less self-assured I feel late in life than I did when I lived in perpetual springtime. Some of my critics allege that age hasn't entirely cost me the conceits of my youth. All I can say to them is, they should have known me then, when I was brave and true and better-looking than I am at present. But as the great poet Yeats wrote, "All that's beautiful drifts away, like the waters." I have lost some of the attributes that were the object of a young man's vanity. But there have been compensations, which I have come to hold dear.

We have our disagreements, we Americans. We contend regularly and enthusiastically over many questions: over the size and purposes of our government; over the social responsibilities we accept in accord with the dictates of our conscience and our faithfulness to the God we pray to; over our role in the world and how to defend our security interests and values in places where they are threatened. These are important questions; worth arguing about. We should contend over them with one another. It is more than appropriate, it is necessary that even in times of crisis, especially in times of crisis, we fight among ourselves for the things we believe in. It is not just our right, but our civic and moral obligation.
Our country doesn't depend on the heroism of every citizen. But all of us should be worthy of the sacrifices made on our behalf. We have to love our freedom, not just for the private opportunities it provides, but for the goodness it makes possible. We have to love it as much, even if not as heroically, as the brave Americans who defend us at the risk and often the cost of their lives. We must love it enough to argue about it, and to serve it, in whatever way our abilities permit and our conscience requires, whether it calls us to arms or to altruism or to politics.

I supported the decision to go to war in Iraq. Many Americans did not. My patriotism and my conscience required me to support it and to engage in the debate over whether and how to fight it. I stand that ground not to chase vainglorious dreams of empire; not for a noxious sense of racial superiority over a subject people; not for cheap oil--we could have purchased oil from the former dictator at a price far less expensive than the blood and treasure we've paid to secure those resources for the people of that nation; not for the allure of chauvinism, to wreak destruction in the world in order to feel superior to it; not for a foolishly romantic conception of war. I stand that ground because I believed, rightly or wrongly, that my country's interests and values required it.

War is an awful business. The lives of the nation's finest patriots are sacrificed. Innocent people suffer. Commerce is disrupted, economies damaged. Strategic interests shielded by years of statecraft are endangered as the demands of war and diplomacy conflict. Whether the cause was necessary or not, whether it was just or not, we should all shed a tear for all that is lost when war claims its wages from us. However just or false the cause, however proud and noble the service, it is loss--the loss of friends, the loss of innocent life, the loss of innocence--that the veteran feels most keenly forever more. Only a fool or a fraud sentimentalizes war.

Americans should argue about this war. It has cost the lives of nearly 2,500 of the best of us. It has taken innocent life. It has imposed an enormous financial burden on our economy. At a minimum, it has complicated our ability to respond to other looming threats. Should we lose this war, our defeat will further destabilize an already volatile and dangerous region, strengthen the threat of terrorism, and unleash furies that will assail us for a very long time. I believe the benefits of success will justify the costs and risks we have incurred. But if an American feels the decision was unwise, then they should state their opposition, and argue for another course. It is your right and your obligation. I respect you for it. I would not respect you if you chose to ignore such an important responsibility. But I ask that you consider the possibility that I, too, am trying to meet my responsibilities, to follow my conscience, to do my duty as best as I can, as God has given me light to see that duty.

To be cont.

[sooner n houston]

Continued:

Americans deserve more than tolerance from one another, we deserve each other's respect, whether we think each other right or wrong in our views, as long as our character and our sincerity merit respect, and as long as we share, for all our differences, for all the noisy debates that enliven our politics, a mutual devotion to the sublime idea that this nation was conceived in--that freedom is the inalienable right of mankind, and in accord with the laws of nature and nature's Creator.
We have so much more that unites us than divides us. We need only to look to the enemy who now confronts us, and the benighted ideals to which Islamic extremists pledge allegiance--their disdain for the rights of man, their contempt for innocent human life--to appreciate how much unites us.

Take, for example, the awful human catastrophe under way in the Darfur region of the Sudan. If the United States and the West can be criticized for our role in this catastrophe it is because we have waited too long to intervene to protect the multitudes who are suffering, dying because of it.

Twelve years ago, we turned a blind eye to another genocide, in Rwanda. And when that reign of terror finally, mercifully exhausted itself, with over 800,000 Rwandans slaughtered, Americans, our government, and decent people everywhere in the world were shocked and ashamed of our silence and inaction, for ignoring our values and the demands of our conscience. In shame and renewed allegiance to our ideals, we swore, not for the first time, "never again." But never lasted only until the tragedy of Darfur.

Now, belatedly, we have recovered our moral sense of duty, and are prepared, I hope, to put an end to this genocide. Osama bin Laden and his followers, ready, as always, to sacrifice anything and anyone to their hatred of the West and our ideals, have called on Muslims to rise up against any Westerner who dares intervene to stop the genocide, even though Muslims, hundreds of thousands of Muslims, are its victims. Now that, my friends, is a difference, a cause, worth taking up arms against.

It is not a clash of civilizations. I believe, as I hope all Americans would believe, that no matter where people live, no matter their history or religious beliefs or the size of their GDP, all people share the desire to be free; to make by their own choices and industry better lives for themselves and their children. Human rights exist above the state and beyond history--they are God-given. They cannot be rescinded by one government any more than they can be granted by another. They inhabit the human heart, and from there, though they may be abridged, they can never be wrenched.

This is a clash of ideals, a profound and terrible clash of ideals. It is a fight between right and wrong. Relativism has no place in this confrontation. We're not defending an idea that every human being should eat corn flakes, play baseball or watch MTV. We're not insisting that all societies be governed by a bicameral legislature and a term-limited chief executive. We are insisting that all people have a right to be free, and that right is not subject to the whims and interests and authority of another person, government or culture. Relativism, in this contest, is most certainly not a sign of our humility or ecumenism; it is a mask for arrogance and selfishness. It is, and I mean this sincerely and with all humility, not worthy of us. We are a better people than that.

We are not a perfect nation. Our history has had its moments of shame and profound regret. But what we have achieved in our brief history is irrefutable proof that a nation conceived in liberty will prove stronger, more decent and more enduring than any nation ordered to exalt the few at the expense of the many or made from a common race or culture or to preserve traditions that have no greater attribute than longevity.

As blessed as we are, no nation complacent in its greatness can long sustain it. We, too, must prove, as those who came before us proved, that a people free to act in their own interests, will perceive those interests in an enlightened way, will live as one nation, in a kinship of ideals, and make of our power and wealth a civilization for the ages, a civilization in which all people share in the promise and responsibilities of freedom.

Should we claim our rights and leave to others the duty to the ideals that protect them, whatever we gain for ourselves will be of little lasting value. It will build no monuments to virtue, claim no honored place in the memory of posterity, offer no worthy summons to the world. Success, wealth and celebrity gained and kept for private interest is a small thing. It makes us comfortable, eases the material hardships our children will bear, purchases a fleeting regard for our lives, yet not the self-respect that, in the end, matters most. But sacrifice for a cause greater than yourself, and you invest your life with the eminence of that cause, your self-respect assured.

All lives are a struggle against selfishness. All my life I've stood a little apart from institutions I willingly joined. It just felt natural to me. But if my life had shared no common purpose, it would not have amounted to much more than eccentricity. There is no honor or happiness in just being strong enough to be left alone. I have spent nearly 50 years in the service of this country and its ideals. I have made many mistakes, and I have many regrets. But I have never lived a day, in good times or bad, that I wasn't grateful for the privilege. That's the benefit of service to a country that is an idea and a cause, a righteous idea and cause. America and her ideals helped spare me from the weaknesses in my own character. And I cannot forget it.
When I was a young man, I thought glory was the highest attainment, and all glory was self-glory. My parents tried to teach me otherwise, as did my church, as did the Naval Academy. But I didn't understand the lesson until later in life, when I confronted challenges I never expected to face.

In that confrontation, I discovered that I was dependent on others to a greater extent than I had ever realized, but neither they nor the cause we served made any claims on my identity. On the contrary, they gave me a larger sense of myself than I had before. And I am a better man for it. I discovered that nothing in life is more liberating than to fight for a cause that encompasses you but is not defined by your existence alone. And that has made all the difference, my friends, all the difference in the world.

Let us argue with each other then. By all means, let us argue. Our differences are not petty, they often involve cherished beliefs, and represent our best judgment about what is right for our country and humanity. Let us defend those beliefs. Let's do so sincerely and strenuously. It is our right and duty to do so. And let's not be too dismayed with the tenor and passion of our arguments, even when they wound us. We have fought among ourselves before in our history, over big things and small, with worse vitriol and bitterness than we experience today.

Let us exercise our responsibilities as free people. But let us remember, we are not enemies. We are compatriots defending ourselves from a real enemy. We have nothing to fear from each other. We are arguing over the means to better secure our freedom, promote the general welfare and defend our ideals. It should remain an argument among friends; each of us struggling to hear our conscience, and heed its demands; each of us, despite our differences, united in our great cause, and respectful of the goodness in each other. I have not always heeded this injunction myself, and I regret it very much.

I had a friend once, who, a long time ago, in the passions and resentments of a tumultuous era in our history, I might have considered my enemy. He had come once to the capitol of the country that held me prisoner, that deprived me and my dearest friends of our most basic rights, and that murdered some of us. He came to that place to denounce our country's involvement in the war that had led us there. His speech was broadcast into our cells. I thought it a grievous wrong then, and I still do.

A few years later, he had moved temporarily to a kibbutz in Israel. He was there during the Yom Kippur War, when he witnessed the support America provided our beleaguered ally. He saw the huge cargo planes bearing the insignia of the United States Air Force rushing emergency supplies into that country. And he had an epiphany. He had believed America had made a tragic mistake by going to Vietnam, and he still did. He had seen what he believed were his country's faults, and he still saw them. But he realized he had let his criticism temporarily blind him to his country's generosity and the goodness that most Americans possess, and he regretted his failing deeply. When he returned to his country he became prominent in Democratic Party politics, and helped elect Bill Clinton president of the United States. He still criticized his government when he thought it wrong, but he never again lost sight of all that unites us.

We met some years later. He approached me and asked to apologize for the mistake he believed he had made as a young man. Many years had passed since then, and I bore little animosity for anyone because of what they had done or not done during the Vietnam War. It was an easy thing to accept such a decent act, and we moved beyond our old grievance.

We worked together in an organization dedicated to promoting human rights in the country where he and I had once come for different reasons. I came to admire him for his generosity, his passion for his ideals, for the largeness of his heart, and I realized he had not been my enemy, but my countryman--my countryman--and later my friend. His friendship honored me. We disagreed over much. Our politics were often opposed, and we argued those disagreements. But we worked together for our shared ideals. We were not always in the right, but we weren't always in the wrong either, and we defended our beliefs as we had each been given the wisdom to defend them.

David remained my countryman and my friend, until the day of his death, at the age of 47, when he left a loving wife and three beautiful children, and legions of friends behind him. His country was a better place for his service to her, and I had become a better man for my friendship with him. God bless him.
And may God bless you, Class of 2006. The world does indeed await you, and humanity is impatient for your service. Take good care of that responsibility. Everything depends upon it.

And thank you, very much, for the privilege of sharing this great occasion with you.


http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110008409

[Scott D]

He didn't stump as much politically as the thread led people to believe, but he really didn't need to tie the last few paragraphs together as an impetus to be involved in politics.

Regardless, the kids were idiots for what they did, and unfortunately I doubt they'll be punished in any sort of way.

[Scott D]

The criticism was aimed at OU, for hiring an open lib as commencement speaker. If she didn't take political shots, the graduates got lucky.
Anytime someone takes an unfair shot at Limbaugh, or mischaracterizes his polularity or fans, I will endeavor to point out the error. If he ever becomes the extremist his detractors wish he was, I will stop defending him. As you know, I've started Limbaugh threads, and will likely do it again if conditions warrant.

Or it was just presumptiously wrong of you to outright assume that she would use the platform as an attempt to take those shots, and further an agenda that apparently only lives in the minds of the paranoid conservative. Keep Limbaugh out of this thread, I certainly didn't mention him here and he has no relevance to this discussion.


I don't think I had anything to say about the Couric address.

Hey, scott, speaking of the OU/Couric thing, you didn't see any right wingers going down there and acting like arsehats, did you? I mean, I didn't see no one throwing stuff, yelling, heckling, or whatever it is that pothead hippie commies do at a conservative's speach.

'The usual suspects' , eh? - Sounds like canidates for re-education camp in a future socialist America.

Not that we know of, but then again would they be acting like arsehats if they had shown up and booed when she was announced?

Never once have I condoned their behavior at the other speech. As for the 'usual suspects' comment. Hey, I'm not the one with two views...'my view' and 'the wrong view'...you guys are.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Or it was just presumptiously wrong of you to outright assume that she would use the platform as an attempt to take those shots, and further an agenda that apparently only lives in the minds of the paranoid conservative.



As for the 'usual suspects' comment. Hey, I'm not the one with two views...'my view' and 'the wrong view'...you guys are.I don't think you believe Couric is without an agenda.(one that lives only in the minds of the paranoid conservative)
What is your opinion of your own view, is it wrong or is it right?

[Scott D]

my view 'can' be wrong...and I accept that fact. I don't go about galavanting that my view is the only view that can be possibly right.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

my view 'can' be wrong...and I accept that fact. I don't go about galavanting that my view is the only view that can be possibly right.Socialism and appeasement politics have been proven to be unsuccessful, and poor choices, every time they are tried.

[Scott D]

Socialism and appeasement politics have been proven to be unsuccessful, and poor choices, every time they are tried.

yeah..as if those are the only other options besides extreme conservatism that borders on paranoia :rolleyes:

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

yeah..as if those are the only other options besides extreme conservatism that borders on paranoia :rolleyes:What is your definition or explanation of extreme conservatism?

[OhU1]

McCain is in favor of government protectionism for industries that line his pockets. McCain led the campaign to ban the Ultimate Fighting Championship a few years back. Of course McCain is a huge boxing fan and boxing's biggest sponsor Anheuser Busch donates freely to McCain.

I'll never forget McCain getting punked on CNN by Ken Shamrock in an attempted debate over banning the UFC. McCain, perhaps wisely realizing he couldn't defend boxing as being safe, just went silent and didn't respond to Shamrock's question. Or perhaps, wisely, he thought it best not to upset a guy who fights in a cage for a living!

[Scott D]

What is your definition or explanation of extreme conservatism?

certainly you don't believe your views are moderate in any way.

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

I like McCain and I respect him a lot. If Republicans would have given him the nomination in 2000, it is likely I would have voted for him in the general.

While I think it's tacky for anyone to disrupt a speaker by throwing paper airplanes, I can also say that his speech most likely had nothing to do with graduates achieving goals, etc. Last year all he did was defend the Iraq invasion and W.

[TUSooner]

What I don't get is how defensive some people seem to get when a view not like their own is expressed in public. It's like they just have to shout it down or show some kind of outrage. How insecure such people must be. Whatever happened to the days of yore when people liked to listen to other people or to hear something new and different, without needing either to buy into it or condemn it straight away.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

certainly you don't believe your views are moderate in any way.I would like to hear your beliefs on what you think is conservative, ultra-conservative, and moderate. I'll tell ya where I am according to your definitions.

[Hatfield]

What I don't get is how defensive some people seem to get when a view not like their own is expressed in public. It's like they just have to shout it down or show some kind of outrage. How insecure such people must be. Whatever happened to the days of yore when people liked to listen to other people or to hear something new and different, without needing either to buy into it or condemn it straight away.

i think some of their "outrage" was directed at the fact that a large group didn't want him there in the first place.....so it might have happened regardless of what he had to say. (think over 1200 signed a petition calling for his invite to be rescinded.

and tu sadly those days are being left further and further behind. I think it has less to do with being tolerant of opposing views as it does with simple common courtesy....or the lack thereof

[Scott D]

I would like to hear your beliefs on what you think is conservative, ultra-conservative, and moderate. I'll tell ya where I am according to your definitions.

this thread is about the protest at a commencement, and how people on both sides of the matter got overly worked up. This isn't a thread about my perception of your political view.

[TUSooner]

this thread is about the protest at a commencement, and how people on both sides of the matter got overly worked up. This isn't a thread about my perception of your political view.
Sorry Scott, you are very WRONG. Every thread is about william favor's politcal views. Oh yeah, and Rush's, too. :D

[yermom]

What I don't get is how defensive some people seem to get when a view not like their own is expressed in public. It's like they just have to shout it down or show some kind of outrage. How insecure such people must be. Whatever happened to the days of yore when people liked to listen to other people or to hear something new and different, without needing either to buy into it or condemn it straight away.

when were those days exactly?

[Jerk]

He didn't stump as much politically as the thread led people to believe, but he really didn't need to tie the last few paragraphs together as an impetus to be involved in politics.



Yes, it was Hatfield who made the assumption that it was a big political speech. You know....Hatfield, your 'politically moderate' buddy.

(I'm just going by what I bet your definition of moderate is. you know, assuming)

[Mjcpr]

when were those days exactly?

1954 - 55

[Scott D]

Yes, it was Hatfield who made the assumption that it was a big political speech. You know....Hatfield, your 'politically moderate' buddy.

(I'm just going by what I bet your definition of moderate is. you know, assuming)

heh I don't consider Hatfield to be all that moderate...unless it's as a moderately opposite viewpoint to an outspoken handful here.

I shouldn't call Jerk a conservative though...he's more of a personal freedom based isolationist ;)

[Hatfield]

Yes, it was Hatfield who made the assumption that it was a big political speech. You know....Hatfield, your 'politically moderate' buddy.

(I'm just going by what I bet your definition of moderate is. you know, assuming)

Not at all what i said...but carry on slappy

[Jerk]

And another thing, people are assuming that I am angry because I disagree with the protestors' politics. That's bullsh** I just don't think they have any respect or class. THEY are the ones who shout down the opposition. THEY are the ones who express their 'outrage' by throwing things at invited speakers. The arsehat who runs the Baptist church in Kansas that goes to all of the soldiers' funerals to protest might be considered 'right wing,' so am I, yet if I could bash that fuggers head into a curb and get away with it... I would do it.

(but I can't....because I wouldn't last long in jail)

[Scott D]

like I said, you are a personal freedoms based isolationist :)

[TUSooner]

when were those days exactly?
OK. Never. I made it up. :O

Actually, I was thinking about the days before TV, Radio & movies and even in ancient times when people used to listen to debates, speeches, and sermons for entertainment. But I guess mobs have always gotten rowdy when they hear what they don't want to hear. Regardless, the knee-jerk indignation of some folks on this board gets to be pretty annoying.

[Jerk]

I shouldn't call Jerk a conservative though...he's more of a personal freedom based isolationist ;)

Nailed it.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

yeah..as if those are the only other options besides extreme conservatism that borders on paranoia :rolleyes:Scott, we were talking about the subject of the potitical continuum WAY BACK in this thread.(ie. the above quote from you) If you now don't want to talk about it anymore, just say so, instead of scolding.

[Ike]

What I don't get is how defensive some people seem to get when a view not like their own is expressed in public. It's like they just have to shout it down or show some kind of outrage. How insecure such people must be. Whatever happened to the days of yore when people liked to listen to other people or to hear something new and different, without needing either to buy into it or condemn it straight away.

those days ended at about the same time that rational thought ceased to be a trait of the majority of people. In other words, just seconds after we came down from the trees. ;)

[Sooner24]

OK. Never. I made it up. :O

Actually, I was thinking about the days before TV, Radio & movies and even in ancient times when people used to listen to debates, speeches, and sermons for entertainment. But I guess mobs have always gotten rowdy when they hear what they don't want to hear. Regardless, the knee-jerk indignation of some folks on this board gets to be pretty annoying.


I bet Phil would give you your money back if you wanted to leave.