View Full Version : BORDER PATROL UNDERMINING MINUTEMEN
RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
5/9/2006, 03:25 PM
I just heard this on radio, Fox News. They said the Mex. govt. and our US Border Patrol have been working together to steer entering illegals away from areas where the Minutemen are stationed. If this is true, Bush's rating of 31% will look like overwhelming support.
1stTimeCaller
5/9/2006, 03:29 PM
U.S. tipping Mexico to Minuteman patrols
By Sara A. Carter, Staff Writer
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While Minuteman civilian patrols are keeping an eye out for illegal border crossers, the U.S. Border Patrol is keeping an eye out for Minutemen -- and telling the Mexican government where they are.
According to three documents on the Mexican Secretary of Foreign Relations Web site, the U.S. Border Patrol is to notify the Mexican government as to the location of Minutemen and other civilian border patrol groups when they participate in apprehending illegal immigrants -- and if and when violence is used against border crossers.
A U.S. Customs and Border Protection spokesman confirmed the notification process, describing it as a standard procedure meant to reassure the Mexican government that migrants' rights are being observed.
"It's not a secret where the Minuteman volunteers are going to be," Mario Martinez said Monday.
"This ... simply makes two basic statements -- that we will not allow any lawlessness of any type, and that if an alien is encountered by a Minuteman or arrested by the Minuteman, then we will allow that government to interview the person."
Minuteman members were not so sanguine about the arrangement, however, saying that reporting their location to Mexican officials nullifies their effectiveness along the border and could endanger their lives.
"Now we know why it seemed like Mexican officials knew where we were all the time," said Chris Simcox, founder of the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps. "It's unbelievable that our own government agency is sending intelligence to another country. They are sending intelligence to a nation where corruption runs rampant, and that could be getting into the hands of criminal cartels.
"They just basically endangered the lives of American people."
Officials with the Mexican consulate in Washington, D.C., could not be reached for comment Monday.
Martinez said reporting the location of immigrant apprehensions to consulate representatives is common practice if an illegal immigrant requests counsel or believes they have been mistreated.
"Once an illegal alien is apprehended, they can request counsel," he said. "We have to give their counsel the information about their apprehension, and that includes where they are apprehended, whether a Minuteman volunteer spotted them or a citizen."
Martinez said Mexico's official perception of the civilian groups is that they are vigilantes, a belief the Border Patrol hoped to allay by entering into the cooperative agreement.
One of the documents on the Web site, "Actions of the Mexican Government in Relation to the Activities of Vigilante Groups," states that Mexican consulate representatives stay in close contact with Border Patrol chiefs to ensure the safety of migrants trying to enter the U.S., those being detained and the actions of all "vigilantes" along the border.
"The Mexican consul in Presidio also contacted the chief of the Border Patrol in the Marfa Sector to solicit his cooperation in case they detect any activity of `vigilantes,' and was told to immediately contact the consulate if there was," according to the document.
"Presidio" refers to Presidio County, Texas, which is in the Big Bend region and a gateway to northern Mexico.
The document also describes a meeting with San Diego Border Patrol sector chief Darryl Griffen.
"(Griffen) said that the Border Patrol will not permit any violence or any actions contrary to the law by the groups, and he is continuously aware of (the volunteer organizations') operations," according to the document. "Mr. Griffen reiterated to the undersecretary his promise to notify the General Consul right away when the vigilantes detain or participate in the detention of any undocumented Mexicans."
The documents specifically named the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps and its patrols, which began monitoring Arizona's southern border in April 2005, as well as Friends of the Border Patrol, a Chino-based nonprofit.
TJ Bonner, president of the National Border Patrol Council, a union representing more than 10,000 Border Patrol agents, said agents have complained for years about the Mexican consulate's influence over the agency.
"It worries me (that the Mexican government) seems to be unduly influencing our enforcement policies. That's not a legitimate role for any foreign nation," Bonner said, though he added, "It doesn't surprise me."
Border Patrol agents interviewed by the Daily Bulletin said they have been asked to report to sector headquarters the location of all civilian volunteer groups, but to not file the groups' names in reports if they spot illegal immigrants.
"Last year an internal memo notified all agents not to give credit to Minuteman volunteers or others who call in sightings of illegal aliens," said one agent, who spoke on the condition he not be identified. "We were told to list it as a citizen call and leave it at that. Many times, we were told not to go out to Minuteman calls."
The document also mentions locations of field operations of Friends of the Border Patrol, which patrolled the San Diego sector from June to November 2005. Mexican officials had access to the exact location of the group founded by Andy Ramirez, which ran its patrols from the Rough Acre Ranch, a private property in McCain Valley.
Ramirez said that for safety reasons, he disclosed the location of his ranch patrol only to San Diego Border Patrol and law enforcement officials. The group did not apprehend or spot any undocumented migrants in that area.
"We did not release this information ... to the media or anyone else," Ramirez said. "We didn't want to publicize that information. But there it is, right on the Mexican government's Web site, and our government gave it to them."
Visit the Mexican Government's Secretary of Foreign Relations Web Site. Third Report on the Activities of Vigilantes. http://www.sre.gob.mx/eventos/minuteman/reporte3.htm
mdklatt
5/9/2006, 03:38 PM
You say "undermining", I say "warning a neigboring country about armed citizens that we have no control over operating along our common border". Potayto, potahto.
If the illegals know where the Minutemen are doesn't that help their effectiveness? Isn't their goal to cut down on border crossings in their areas? Won't this do that? :confused:
Jimminy Crimson
5/9/2006, 03:39 PM
Build a fence already.
:mad:
sounds to me like the minutemen are spinning this in exactly the wrong direction. they should be saying that because of the *help* they are getting from the federal government, their actions are working, and thus, they need to get many many more members to post them all along the border. Pretty soon there won't be anyplace to steer the illegals then.
RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
5/9/2006, 04:12 PM
sounds to me like the minutemen are spinning this in exactly the wrong direction. they should be saying that because of the *help* they are getting from the federal government, their actions are working, and thus, they need to get many many more members to post them all along the border. Pretty soon there won't be anyplace to steer the illegals then.First they have to get past the anger and shock of finding out their own govt. is trying to undermine their efforts to stop illegal entry.
First they have to get past the anger and shock of finding out their own govt. is trying to undermine their efforts to stop illegal entry.
But you have to ask the question of whether or not they are really effective in stopping illegal entry. without complete coverage of the border, no they aren't really. Because the illegals they detain just get shipped back to try again later. But, with complete coverage of the border, this kind of notification works to their advantage. The messican gov't would have to tell its people "dont cross illegally, these ****ers are everywhere!"
RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
5/9/2006, 04:33 PM
But you have to ask the question of whether or not they are really effective in stopping illegal entry. without complete coverage of the border, no they aren't really. Because the illegals they detain just get shipped back to try again later. But, with complete coverage of the border, this kind of notification works to their advantage. The messican gov't would have to tell its people "dont cross illegally, these ****ers are everywhere!"You are right in that we are FAR from containing illegal immigration. I'm just saying it's SHOCKING to see the fed. govt. pointing out locations of US citizens trying to help the fed. govt. uphold the law to the govt. of the lawbreakers of US law. Doesn't reflect well on Bushy with his base.
slickdawg
5/9/2006, 04:36 PM
It gives the appearance that the US Government, headed by Jorge Booosh
is trying to aid illegal immigration so his corporate buddies can have more
slave labor.
You are right in that we are FAR from containing illegal immigration. I'm just saying it's SHOCKING to see the fed. govt. pointing out locations of US citizens trying to help the fed. govt. uphold the law to the govt. of the lawbreakers of US law. Doesn't reflect well on Bushy with his base.
I'll grant you that it can be shocking to your base, but being the lemons-to-lemonade type of person that I am, I also see it as a great oppurtunity for the minutemen to recruit, expand, and make a real difference in their stated mission. Not that I get all giddy about their stated mission, but I tend to recognize these kinds of oppurtunities when they arise.
RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
5/9/2006, 04:39 PM
It gives the appearance that the US Government, headed by Jorge Booosh
is trying to aid illegal immigration so his corporate buddies can have more
slave labor.Yeah, and/or he's too chicken to tackle the open border problem at all, for whatever reason(s).
Yeah, and/or he's too chicken to tackle the open border problem at all, for whatever reason(s).
most likely reason is that many of the big businesses that helped get him elected in the first place would whine and sob if the supply of illegals dried up....
at least, thats my hunch.
etouffee
5/9/2006, 04:58 PM
most likely reason is that many of the big businesses that helped get him elected in the first place would whine and sob if the supply of illegals dried up....
at least, thats my hunch.Ok...but why would he care if they got a little irked? It's not like he needs their help to get elected again, nor does he really need their help with anything after he leaves office.
RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
5/9/2006, 05:04 PM
most likely reason is that many of the big businesses that helped get him elected in the first place would whine and sob if the supply of illegals dried up....
at least, thats my hunch.I disagree for 2 reasons. One is that he's not running for anything. Second, and more important is that the republican base, including lots of business owners, is solidly against illegal immigration. He's thumbing his nose at the base. I believe the overriding concern of most people, libs included(except for lib politicians), is NATIONAL SECURITY, and in my case, also that illegals simply shouldn't be here.
n8v_ndn
5/9/2006, 05:16 PM
We need Hands Across America™ II, with lawn chairs and side arms thrown in. Or human pyramids at least, facing South.
Ok...but why would he care if they got a little irked? It's not like he needs their help to get elected again, nor does he really need their help with anything after he leaves office.
who knows? but its been my observational experience that politicians do not frequently think rationally. Like I said, just my hunch. nothing more, nothing less.
opksooner
5/9/2006, 05:22 PM
Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
That wants it down." I could say "Elves" to him,
But it's not elves exactly, and I'd rather
He said it for himself. I see him there
Bringing a stone grasped firmly by the top
In each hand, like an old-stone savage armed.
He moves in darkness as it seems to me,
Not of woods only and the shade of trees.
He will not go behind his father's saying,
And he likes having thought of it so well
He says it again, "Good fences make good neighbors."
--Robert Frost
stoopified
5/9/2006, 05:35 PM
All this illegal immigrant cr*p makes me gratefull that big OL' TEXA$$ is between us and the Messican border.We have more than enough illegals as is but imagine how much worse it would be if Texas wasn't there as a buffer zone.
slickdawg
5/9/2006, 05:50 PM
Yeah, and/or he's too chicken to tackle the open border problem at all, for whatever reason(s).
Well, if he attacks the problem, Messicans don't vote for Republicans, and
his corporate buddies lose slave labor.
RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
5/9/2006, 05:52 PM
All this illegal immigrant cr*p makes me gratefull that big OL' TEXA$$ is between us and the Messican border.We have more than enough illegals as is but imagine how much worse it would be if Texas wasn't there as a buffer zone.Out here in Phoenix, it's at the top of everyone's list of concerns. The issue (lack of govt. action) is a puzzle to most people I've talked with.
TRAINED GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS UNDERMINING CRACKPOT BANDS OF VIGILANTIES
There, I fixed it for you.
RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
5/9/2006, 06:33 PM
There, I fixed it for you.Hope you're joking.
Collier11
5/9/2006, 06:37 PM
Heaven forbid that a group of people that are acting completely under the law try to enforce the LAW, you come over ILLEGAL, that makes you ILLEGAL! Until we do something about the border, I hope they stay there
Hope you're joking.
Why?
I find ALL "citizens' militia" groups to be creepy and worth keeping a watchful eye on. Anytime a group of individuals become so dissatisfied with the goverment that they arm and take action...well, I get the creeping heebie-jeebies.
It kind of concerns me that YOU don't.
OklahomaTuba
5/9/2006, 07:07 PM
It concerns me that millions of illegals are streaming into this country and we don't know who the **** they are personally.
At least this "crackpot band of vigilantes" actually has some sort of solution. Something we will never hear from the people who rather slander them.
RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
5/9/2006, 07:13 PM
Why?
I find ALL "citizens' militia" groups to be creepy and worth keeping a watchful eye on. Anytime a group of individuals become so dissatisfied with the goverment that they arm and take action...well, I get the creeping heebie-jeebies.
It kind of concerns me that YOU don't.All are worth examination, I agree. The Minutemen have had extensive scrutiny since their beginnings, and have proven to be (so far) above rapproach. I am not only dissatisfied with the govt. on this open borders issue, I am mystified by the unwillingness of both parties to do anything. Aren't you?
Scott D
5/9/2006, 07:17 PM
you really need to get on prozac.
At least this "crackpot band of vigilantes" actually has some sort of solution. Something we will never hear from the people who rather slander them.
"Solution", "international incident waiting to happen"...it's all the same. :D
Standard Operating Procedure for Minuteman Civil Defense Corps.
1Minutemen are courteous to everyone with whom they come into contact, and never discriminate against anyone for any reason.
2Minutemen do not respond to any taunts or harassment from outside agitators, and must never be present for duty or serve in any capacity if intoxicated.
3Minutemen Observe, Report,Record, and Direct Border Patrol or other appropriate emergency or law enforcement agencies to suspected Illegal Aliens or Illegal Activities.
4Minutemen do not verbally contact, physically gesture to or have any form of communications with suspected Illegal Aliens.
5Minutemen follow the Standard Operating Procedures to the letter and spirit.
6Minutemen follow all federal, state and local laws, understanding that we are being held to a higher standard by all.
7Minutemen understand that, while our actions cannot stop illegal activities along the border, we can change world perception and national thought concerning Homeland and Border Security.
8Minutemen monitor their behavior, the behavior of the people around them and the group as a whole to ensure compliance with the SOP and any instruction given by Minuteman Corps Leadership.
9Minutemen leave no garbage behind and follow strict pack-in / pack-out procedures.
10Minutemen respect the property rights of everyone, start no fires, never drive off road, and follow the directions of all law enforcement personnel.
They dont arm themselves, they contact La Migra to report location. Where did you hear that they arm themselves?
RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
5/9/2006, 07:26 PM
you really need to get on prozac.You are my prozac substitute.
Scott D
5/9/2006, 07:48 PM
is there any other disturbing news you'd care to share with the rest of the class?
RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
5/9/2006, 07:56 PM
is there any other disturbing news you'd care to share with the rest of the class?Sooners didn't win the MNC since 2000!
OklahomaTuba
5/9/2006, 07:57 PM
Can you feel the love tonight...
Okla-homey
5/9/2006, 07:59 PM
People, I mean this with all sincerity and I've said it before. A fence won't cut it. Enhanced border surveillance won't cut it. The only thing that will stop it is deadly force.
Who here thinks there exists sufficient national will to fire on these people? Not me.
IMHO, until we get there as a nation, we're just p1ssin' and moanin' to no effect. Let's face it, desperate people are incredibly resourceful. There is no way to seal that border without arming it and putting the folks on the other side on notice penetration attempts will be dealt with "extreme prejudice."
I think W knows it, and the Congress (both sides of the aisle) knows it, and no one is willing to say it out loud.
Not saying I favor shooting them, just saying that is what is required to keep 'em out.
OklahomaTuba
5/9/2006, 08:01 PM
They dont arm themselves, they contact La Migra to report location. Where did you hear that they arm themselves?
What about the torchuring and genocide of illegals at abu graib, gitmo and occupied new orleans! YOU FORGOT TO POST THAT!!!!
What about the torchuring and genocide of illegals at abu graib, gitmo and occupied new orleans! YOU FORGOT TO POST THAT!!!!
I would post that if i relied on political emotions and lack of facts.
RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
5/9/2006, 08:07 PM
Welcome to NORTH AMERICA. All future govt. business to be conducted in 3 languages, and citizens of Guatemala and all points south are welcome. NAFTA is hereby declared useless.
Scott D
5/9/2006, 08:55 PM
Welcome to NORTH AMERICA. All future govt. business to be conducted in 3 languages, and citizens of Guatemala and all points south are welcome. NAFTA is hereby declared useless.
you insinuate that NAFTA was ever useful. Surely not even a staunch 'pub' like you would fall for that.
Beano's Fourth Chin
5/9/2006, 08:57 PM
Vigilanties are only welcome in the DC universe. And even then, Batman had a heck of a time before Gordon finally installed that red phone.
Unfortunately for these guys, we live in a Marvel world. Are these guys better than Spiderman, I don't think so.
picasso
5/9/2006, 09:38 PM
one of my best friend's lives in Bisbee, AZ. his roomie is a border patrol guard.
I'm sure it's good times man.
At least this "crackpot band of vigilantes" actually has some sort of solution. Something we will never hear from the people who rather slander them.
I can never get my head around you guys' preoccupation with "having a solution". It's an INTERNET SPORTS MESSAGE BOARD, for crying out loud. Do you think that anyone of any consequence (i.e. policymakers) is out trolling college sports fansites for the next big breakthrough in policy? Do you guys ACTUALLY think that Dubya will read one of your diatribes and go, "That guy's got a really good idea! I'm gonna go make it law, right after I spek him."
'Cause you KNOW he's probably one of the Horn lurkers...:D
picasso
5/9/2006, 09:47 PM
Bush is watchin titty flicks.
Then my opinion of him just ticked up a couple notches. ;)
Octavian
5/9/2006, 10:16 PM
I agree w/ Tuba and favor :eek:
The US govt not actively trying to enforce border security is one thing....I like buying cheap clothes and groceries, I enjoy my paved roads...
But the US Fed Govt handing out information to the crime syndicate infused Mexican govt on the location of American citizens (even if I may think said citizens may be a little nutty) and directly placing them in potential danger? Thats bull****.
FaninAma
5/9/2006, 11:26 PM
Why?
I find ALL "citizens' militia" groups to be creepy and worth keeping a watchful eye on. Anytime a group of individuals become so dissatisfied with the goverment that they arm and take action...well, I get the creeping heebie-jeebies.
It kind of concerns me that YOU don't.
Yeah, like that wild-eyed bunch of radicals back in the 1700's....Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington and a few of their crackpot friends.;)
Are you saying we need to overthrow the US government? Because if you are, Mister, that's TREASON!!
:P
Scott D
5/9/2006, 11:37 PM
I agree w/ Tuba and favor :eek:
The US govt not actively trying to enforce border security is one thing....I like buying cheap clothes and groceries, I enjoy my paved roads...
But the US Fed Govt handing out information to the crime syndicate infused Mexican govt on the location of American citizens (even if I may think said citizens may be a little nutty) and directly placing them in potential danger? Thats bull****.
no you are being sane that isn't the same as agreeing with favor. you aren't being outraged enough ;)
No one has proved that these "gun totin' militia men" have actually shot, pointed a gun, or pistol whipped a messican. They are just angry that a group of activists has protested the governments reactions( or lack of) to the issue of ILLEGAL immigrants. This protest in action does not fit the liberal/messican/lesbo/gay protest format. If they prove by fact from a credible source that the "Minutemen" use weapons to combat illegals, then I'll listen.
Scott D
5/9/2006, 11:40 PM
No one has proved that these "gun totin' militia men" have actually shot, pointed a gun, or pistol whipped a messican. They are just angry that a group of activists has protested the governments reactions( or lack of) to the issue of ILLEGAL immigrants. This protest in action does not fit the liberal/messican/lesbo/gay protest format. If they prove by fact from a credible source that the "Minutemen" use weapons to combat illegals, then I'll listen.
Thanks Bruce.
I'm not Bruce, and you are stumped
give facts not emotions you lib:D
SoonerBorn68
5/9/2006, 11:50 PM
I offer no "solution" to this problem, but it seems if these illegals can't work or get housing here they won't stay. Therefore:
institute large (that's a 5 or 6 zero figure) fines and jail time for anyone who employs them, and or rents to them. Going after the enablers would be a nice start.
RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
5/10/2006, 12:24 AM
T'will be interesting to see and hear what the US govt. says about their reporting the minutemen locations to the Mex. govt. I haven't heard much explanation, yet.
Scott D
5/10/2006, 12:17 PM
I'm not Bruce, and you are stumped
Wouldn't I have to be well, discussing the matter at hand to be stumped? Or could I possibly not care enough about the issue. The government will likely use doubletalk to get out of the situation, and in about a month 99% of the public will forget about this.
They won't do anything about the illegals because they comprise too much of a base workforce for the morons in Washington and their lobbyist buddies.
slickdawg
5/10/2006, 12:22 PM
I offer no "solution" to this problem, but it seems if these illegals can't work or get housing here they won't stay. Therefore:
institute large (that's a 5 or 6 zero figure) fines and jail time for anyone who employs them, and or rents to them. Going after the enablers would be a nice start.
Excellent idea!
Widescreen
5/10/2006, 01:00 PM
Much of the gubment dislikes the Minutemen because the gubment doesn't like the light shined on its failures - particularly failures they have no intention of correcting.
NormanPride
5/10/2006, 01:14 PM
Wouldn't I have to be well, discussing the matter at hand to be stumped? Or could I possibly not care enough about the issue. The government will likely use doubletalk to get out of the situation, and in about a month 99% of the public will forget about this.
They won't do anything about the illegals because they comprise too much of a base workforce for the morons in Washington and their lobbyist buddies.
Why do you hate intelligent debate? ;)
RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
5/10/2006, 01:17 PM
Much of the gubment dislikes the Minutemen because the gubment doesn't like the light shined on its failures - particularly failures they have no intention of correcting.OUCH! So right...but I'm still interested in hearing the spin. Betcha they'll just ignore it, and hope the expose' will die a quiet death.
CShine
5/10/2006, 01:46 PM
I offer no "solution" to this problem, but it seems if these illegals can't work or get housing here they won't stay. Therefore:
institute large (that's a 5 or 6 zero figure) fines and jail time for anyone who employs them, and or rents to them. Going after the enablers would be a nice start.
Whadda pipe dreamer you are. Do you really think the GOP is gonna crack down hard on big business? Dream on, baby. They're too busy trying to figure out how to get their guest worker program through. Hauling business execs into court is the last thing that'll ever happen.
Scott D
5/10/2006, 02:59 PM
Why do you hate intelligent debate? ;)
because I always feel like it lowers my IQ...and I desperately don't want to be a prozac needing all caps title making individual ;)
NormanPride
5/10/2006, 04:35 PM
because I always feel like it lowers my IQ...and I desperately don't want to be a prozac needing all caps title making individual ;)
:dolemite:?
OklahomaTuba
5/10/2006, 04:47 PM
I can never get my head around you guys' preoccupation with "having a solution".
I think this statement explains a lot. :D
OklahomaTuba
5/10/2006, 04:56 PM
Whadda pipe dreamer you are. Do you really think the GOP is gonna crack down hard on big business? Dream on, baby. They're too busy trying to figure out how to get their guest worker program through. Hauling business execs into court is the last thing that'll ever happen.
Those dirty evil capitalists handing out jobs like crack to school kids. This must end, no doubt.
By simply outlawing "big business" and democratizing the economy, we can put all those millions
left unemployed and homeless by the Bushhitler economy to work instead of forced into military
service in Halliburton's wars for oil. Only then will the soup lines end. Only then.
NormanPride
5/10/2006, 04:59 PM
Those dirty evil capitalists handing out jobs like crack to school kids. This must end, no doubt.
By simply outlawing "big business" and democratizing the economy, we can put all those millions
left unemployed and homeless by the Bushhitler economy to work instead of forced into military
service in Halliburton's wars for oil. Only then will the soup lines end. Only then.
You forgot the part about the free abortions and godlessness.
OklahomaTuba
5/10/2006, 05:00 PM
You forgot the part about the free abortions and godlessness.And equals rights for the gay/bi/tri/queer/transgendered/multigendered/scottish
I have an idea!
We agree to give California to Mexico and in return Mexico agrees to supply cheap labor to build a 30 feet high wall along the Texas, NM, AZ, Nevada, and Oregon borders. We keep railroad rights and the rights to the naval and commercial ports in San Deigo and San Franscisco.
OklahomaTuba
5/10/2006, 05:03 PM
Ahh hell, then that means the calitexans will want into nevada.
mdklatt
5/10/2006, 05:37 PM
You forgot the part about the mandatory abortions and godlessness.
Fixed.
RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
5/10/2006, 08:06 PM
Those dirty evil capitalists handing out jobs like crack to school kids. This must end, no doubt.
By simply outlawing "big business" and democratizing the economy, we can put all those millions
left unemployed and homeless by the Bushhitler economy to work instead of forced into military
service in Halliburton's wars for oil. Only then will the soup lines end. Only then.POWER TO THE PEOPLE!...except, how do we "democratize the economy"? HOW will you put those millions to work, and how do we perpetuate the myth of conscription into today's military? IOW, tighten up the program, and then try it again. Yeah, stick it to the man! From each according to his means, to each according to his needs, or something like that.
POWER TO THE PEOPLE!...except, how do we "democratize the economy"?
By gunpoint seems to be the prefered method of communists.
SoonerBorn68
5/10/2006, 10:03 PM
Whadda pipe dreamer you are. Do you really think the GOP is gonna crack down hard on big business? Dream on, baby. They're too busy trying to figure out how to get their guest worker program through. Hauling business execs into court is the last thing that'll ever happen.
I don't care about the GOP or Godless libs in this case. This is an issue that affects every American when these illegals go to the doctor or get financial help in any way or our dimes. The states do have rights in this matter and I'm hoping one or more of the border states pass legislation that will help curb the influx of illegals.
Another simple solution is impose a flat income tax on these folks, period. 15% Federal & 15% state. Let's see then how far $5.00 an hour goes.
Oh, and don't go after the big executives. Procecute and fine the actual people who hire the illegals. It'll stop when the "hands on" people get busted.
However, I do admire your ability to finger point and bitch instead of offering up a solution.
OklahomaTuba
5/10/2006, 10:11 PM
I say ditch the income tax BS. All it does is penalize people who actually work and pay taxes.
Tax the consumption, not the earnings. That will capture a lot.
RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
5/11/2006, 12:24 AM
I say ditch the income tax BS. All it does is penalize people who actually work and pay taxes.
Tax the consumption, not the earnings. That will capture a lot.Uh oh, NEW SUBJECT! Consumption tax discourages economic activity by all people. Flat-rate income tax is the best way to go, I'm convinced.
Scott D
5/11/2006, 03:57 AM
While we're at it, let's turn the United States into a parking lot..that'll show those commie bastards who is in charge here!.....oh wait.... :)
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