** NBA Playoffs Thread ** [Archive] - Page 2 - SoonerFans.com Message Boards

BeetDigger

5/19/2006, 11:04 AM

Truth be told, I'd have an easier time accepting this suspension if the league had nutted up (pun intended) on the Reggie Evans nut grab of Chris Kaman and suspended him for that.

Like it or not, they set the precedent on this kind of action and ignored it when they doled out their punishment for Terry.

Punching someone = one game suspension. That IS the precedent. You can complain all you want, but the NBA is pretty consistent in this regard. Reggie Evans did not punch. You can claim that the punishment for Evans was too light, but you cannot compare the two actions.

Bottom line is that Terry let his team down. I just hope that the Mavs can find a way to stop Duncan. I want the Mavs to win. Everybody talked about this great Mavs bench, now is the time to show it. Griffin, Daniels - now is the time to step up.

Reading through this thread is pretty hilarious. I am just waiting for someone to break out the "Oh yeah, my dad could beat up your dad" line. :D

mrowl

5/19/2006, 11:26 AM

10:00 am yesterday. They update dallasmavericks.com when they are going to go on sale. Keep an out out for the next series, provided we win the series. They go quick, but just try and get 2 right at 10. I did and got $23.00 tickets for Game 3.

there are s-loads on ebay... I may just go up there and get some from scalpers after the game starts.

GrapevineSooner

5/19/2006, 11:40 AM

Well, what's done is done.

Time for Quis, J-Ho, and Stack to really step it up tonight.

sanantoniosooner

5/19/2006, 12:10 PM

BTW, thanks for not resorting to juvenile insults (unlike another Spurs fan here) and actually engaging me in discussing this issue in a civil tone, NP.
Are you totally oblivious the the jabs that I've been taking in this thread prior to Mav-fan getting upset?

I may whine about the officiating, but I haven't bellyached about the fan interaction around here. I enjoy teasing and being teased.

I don't take CVS, mrowl or any of the others personal. This is all good fun until somebody runs out of bran cereal and gets crabby.

sanantoniosooner

5/19/2006, 12:11 PM

Well, what's done is done.

Time for Quis, J-Ho, and Stack to really step it up tonight.
When Artest was suspended the player that took his place has a career night.

The possibility of that happening is about as good as anything else. Teams get jacked up when they play the "us against the world" card, and Cuban has been milking it.

NormanPride

5/19/2006, 12:40 PM

GrapevineSooner

5/19/2006, 01:07 PM

I despise Cuban. He's everything wrong with the NBA, IMO. He's good at what he does, obviously, and I respect his abilities as probably the best owner out there, but I hate his comments, attitude, and lack of respect for anything other than himself.

Can't blame you there.

I respect what he's done for the Mavs, but he goes overboard sometimes with his comments and criticisms.

My biggest bone of contention with him is he's lambasting refs who are human. And while those guys are professionals, you'd hate to think they'd make a call that goes against Dallas late in a game simply because they can't stand Cuban.

Not to mention, he did an awful job of defending Terry's actions by putting this on Fin (my sig, BTW, is a joke) yesterday on The Ticket and on ESPN 103.3 FM.

And a final note on that.

While I may disagree with the decision handed down by Stu Jackson, Terry's the one who put him in that position to make that decision.

So ultimately, JET is responsible. And if San Antonio wins tonight because of his absence, he'll really need to redeem himself Monday night.

NormanPride

5/19/2006, 01:12 PM

BeetDigger

5/19/2006, 01:37 PM

Yeah, I'd sympathise with the ref-bashing if he was just bashing them in general. But he's saying they're favoring the Spurs, which is laughable. They're not favoring ANYONE. It seems like they hate basketball and want it to die.

Well, that is the game that the Spurs are playing. They deliver the ball down low to Duncan who waits for the reaction by the defense. When the double doesn't come, he backs his man down, makes a move to the hoop and shoots. A decent amount of those times he gets a foul call. I am not saying he doesn't deserve the call (although Van Horn couldn't breath without collecting a foul) but he forces the refs to make a decision. SA's style is forcing the refs to be a part of the game.

On the other hand, Dallas either runs its offense through Dirk at the top of the key or swings the ball or runs high pick and roll. That offense generally results in fewer times the refs need to make a call. Now when Dallas drives to the hoop, then SA reacts and trys to block the shot which results either in a non-call or a foul. To me, SA's offensive style is what is forcing the refs to be a part of the game.

Scott D

5/19/2006, 01:41 PM

to be fair you could never convince me that Van Stiff knows what the defensive end of a court is.

colleyvillesooner

5/19/2006, 01:43 PM

The key to this game is getting Harris back to the rim. Ginobli has done a good job at slowing him down. The key for me, as in all ways of life, is penetration. ;)

GrapevineSooner

5/19/2006, 02:02 PM

Add another one:

Grab, but don't punch. ;)

BeetDigger

5/19/2006, 02:21 PM

The key to this game is getting Harris back to the rim. Ginobli has done a good job at slowing him down. The key for me, as in all ways of life, is penetration. ;)

That should open Dirk up for more threes. He has made ONE the entire series - just unbelieveable.

Howeve, I think the key is defense on Duncan. If the dude is shooting seven foot turnarounds all night then Dallas will probably be in trouble.

colleyvillesooner

5/19/2006, 02:22 PM

That should open Dirk up for more threes. He has made ONE the entire series - just unbelieveable.

Howeve, I think the key is defense on Duncan. If the dude is shooting seven foot turnarounds, getting a foul everytime, and making most of FT's all night then Dallas will probably be in trouble.

Fixed :D

GrapevineSooner

5/19/2006, 02:27 PM

I'm hoping to see plenty of Tim Duncan face tonight.

Both from Timmy and the rest of his teammates, complete with the classic palms up. :D

http://www.icicom.up.pt/blog/quarto-arbitro/arquivos/tim%20duncan%20frente%20aos%20suns.jpg

colleyvillesooner

5/19/2006, 02:31 PM

I prefer this one:

http://espn-i.starwave.com/media/apphoto/05b4199d-60c1-4588-9a35-5aa5bb362ac0.jpg

GrapevineSooner

5/19/2006, 02:51 PM

colleyvillesooner

5/19/2006, 02:58 PM

Memo to the refs.

When Duncan does this (leading with his forearm)

http://espn-att.starwave.com/photo/2006/0515/nba_a_duncan_195.jpg

it's a foul. ;)

I'd be willing to bet that somehow, Damp got called for the foul on this for violating the NBA mandated 6-inch perimeter zone around Timmy. :D

So does anything go with the offensive player when the defensive player is inside the arc? Does Damp being inside the arc overrule Tim's forearm?

hurricane'bone

5/19/2006, 03:03 PM

Q: Tim Duncan has developed what I call "the Kareem face" -- whiny, incredulous, "I can't believe you called that on me; I didn't get that call. I hated Kareem for that face and I now dislike Duncan for that. Every play, incessant whining. Somebody slap him!
-- M.R. Kidwell, Spokane Wash.

Q: I've kinda lost track of all of the faces you've come up with but I think it's time for the Tim Duncan face. The "I just got bumped while shooting, hey ref, it's me -- fundamental Tim, the good-guy, you're seriously not gonna call anything, I'm going to sulk my way back down the court now" Face.
-- Eric, Freeport, N.Y.

SG: Done and done. The weird thing about the Spurs is that they're considered the classiest team in the league, but they do more bitching/complaining/eye-rolling after calls than every other playoff team combined. During Game 5, there was one play when Brent Barry got called for a no-question-about-it reach-in on Nowitzki, but he immediately stomped away with his hands turned up in disbelief, almost like he was on auto-pilot. He didn't even sell it that well, like his heart wasn't in it.

The real problem is that the officiating has been so egregiously bad, players now assume that they're getting boned over on every call (even if they were guilty). It's almost like having a date with your girlfriend/wife and promising them that you won't watch sports that night, then they see you glance at your cell phone during dinner and start screaming, "I knew it, I knew it, I knew you couldn't go through the whole night without checking scores," even if you were just looking to see what time it was.

(And by the way, the officials deserve it -- they have been brutal for the entire playoffs, with the notable exception of Danny Crawford, who should officiate a different playoff game every night, much like Marv Albert and Steve Kerr should announce a different game every night. When do you think Dick Stockton will figure out how to announce Anderson Varejao's name correctly in the Cavs-Pistons series? Game 10? Game 11?)

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060519

kelloggOUballa

5/19/2006, 03:06 PM

So does anything go with the offensive player when the defensive player is inside the arc? Does Damp being inside the arc overrule Tim's forearm?

supposedly, the offensive player can truck someone if they are in the arc....but Tim Duncan is allowed to do that anywhere on the court apparently, because he is Tim Duncan I guess?

GrapevineSooner

5/19/2006, 03:09 PM

The restricted area only applies to charge/block situations. You could still get called for pushing off, even if the defending player is inside the restricted area.

GrapevineSooner

5/19/2006, 03:34 PM

It's almost like having a date with your girlfriend/wife and promising them that you won't watch sports that night, then they see you glance at your cell phone during dinner and start screaming, "I knew it, I knew it, I knew you couldn't go through the whole night without checking scores," even if you were just looking to see what time it was.

Bill know's my wife really well.

:D

colleyvillesooner

5/19/2006, 03:40 PM

Bill know's my wife really well.

:D

Heh.

My girlfriend picked me up at the airport yesterday, and we start talking about Game 5. First words out of her mouth is, "I'm about ready for Steve Kerr to stop sucking off the Spurs." :eek:

She's also ready for him to stop calling their coach "Big Pop." And her hate for all things Ginobli rivals only her hate for UT.

Sometimes a sports loving girlfriend is a-ok. :D

mrowl

5/19/2006, 03:43 PM

Heh.

My girlfriend picked me up at the airport yesterday, and we start talking about Game 5. First words out of her mouth is, "I'm about ready for Steve Kerr to stop sucking off the Spurs." :eek:

She's also ready for him to stop calling their coach "Big Pop." And her hate for all things Ginobli rivals only her hate for UT.

Sometimes a sports loving girlfriend is a-ok. :D

don't say that name... bad memories of 3 pointers..... :mad:

colleyvillesooner

5/19/2006, 03:46 PM

don't say that name... bad memories of 3 pointers..... :mad:

I was at that game :(

NormanPride

5/19/2006, 04:26 PM

Well, that is the game that the Spurs are playing. They deliver the ball down low to Duncan who waits for the reaction by the defense. When the double doesn't come, he backs his man down, makes a move to the hoop and shoots. A decent amount of those times he gets a foul call. I am not saying he doesn't deserve the call (although Van Horn couldn't breath without collecting a foul) but he forces the refs to make a decision. SA's style is forcing the refs to be a part of the game.

On the other hand, Dallas either runs its offense through Dirk at the top of the key or swings the ball or runs high pick and roll. That offense generally results in fewer times the refs need to make a call. Now when Dallas drives to the hoop, then SA reacts and trys to block the shot which results either in a non-call or a foul. To me, SA's offensive style is what is forcing the refs to be a part of the game.

That's a really limited account of the SA offense. Half is Duncan backing down his man one on one, and half is getting the guards down low for layups on a dribble drive. That would draw as many fouls as the first, but the only guard good at drawing the foul is Manu, but he kind of makes up for the others. :D

Dallas is not running their typical offense this series, as evidenced by the fact that Dirk is not taking three attempts. It's not that he's being perfectly defended out there, though Bowen is doing a pretty good job, it's the fact that AJ has taken a different game plan into the series. Both lineups are pretty small, the exception is that you guys have a 7 footer that can play small. He's driving to the basket more, which is drawing more fouls.

So blaming the pace on San Antonio is ridiculous, as Dallas is doing much the same thing, getting their guards down low and sending Dirk flying into the lane like, as SAS put it so eloquently "a bull in a china shop". And for you Duncan whiners, if he drew a foul every time down the court, we'd foul your whole team out by halftime. ;) Also, the thing Duncan does with his forearm? It's a foul just like travelling is, just like carrying the ball is, etc... It hasn't been called in years and everyone knows it.

Sooner95

5/19/2006, 05:36 PM

Screw Steve Kerr, we owned his *** in 1988 Final Four..

Lots of talk on the Mavs/Spurs... but what about the other game tonite?

If Clev wins this and eliminates the Pistons, is this a changing of the guard, like Jordan back in 1991?

Sooner95

5/19/2006, 08:48 PM

Offensive Reb and Billups get em... almost had it at the end..

Game 7.. Det/Cle

Scott D

5/19/2006, 08:56 PM

Dear Stupid Announcer,

If you bothered to watch the replay of the final play you would see that Ilgauskus got a lot more of his hand on that tip than Billups did.

Sincerely,
People who can correctly interpret the video in front of them.

tulsaoilerfan

5/19/2006, 09:02 PM

I freakin' HATE the Pistons

sanantoniosooner

5/19/2006, 09:05 PM

Spurs envy is not a pretty thing.

GrapevineSooner

5/19/2006, 09:09 PM

Duncan gets away with a flagrant foul.

And don't bother trying to defend that blown call, SAS.

You and I both know he wasn't going for the ball there.

sanantoniosooner

5/19/2006, 09:10 PM

I missed whatever you are talking about.

sanantoniosooner

5/19/2006, 09:13 PM

geez, I just backed up and looked at it.

You want to call that a flagrant?

I think I might ought to give the board a rest tonight.

GrapevineSooner

5/19/2006, 09:14 PM

His foul on Dirk where he grabbed him by the shoulders.

Not a Flagrant 2, mind you. But the refs convienently missed it. ;)

Well let's see. Was he going for the ball there?

Nope.

Of course, you can't enlighten the unelightenable.

GrapevineSooner

5/19/2006, 09:22 PM

OK, I backed it up.

He almost committed a flagrant there but let up right at the end.

Carry on.

sanantoniosooner

5/19/2006, 09:32 PM

You are commiting flagrant posts.

GrapevineSooner

5/19/2006, 10:01 PM

Jerry &*^%^#$#@@$#@!#^&^ing Stack$%#@^%&**&^house!!

Big Red Ron

5/19/2006, 10:01 PM

Sat. is out...I guess the pistons won...Dallas too?

GrapevineSooner

5/19/2006, 10:08 PM

Dallas up by 6.

Was almost 9, but Quisy didn't quite get that last shot off in time.

sanantoniosooner

5/19/2006, 10:11 PM

Not to mention that flagrant foul he commited.

GrapevineSooner

5/19/2006, 10:12 PM

Find a new bit.

You've run this current one into the ground.

sanantoniosooner

5/19/2006, 10:21 PM

I think you ran it into the ground first, but thanks for the credit. :D

GrapevineSooner

5/19/2006, 10:37 PM

ARRRGGGGH

Stop with the stupid turnovers Mavs. :mad:

sanantoniosooner

5/19/2006, 10:39 PM

For some reason they don't bother me that much.

GrapevineSooner

5/19/2006, 10:49 PM

Ginobli gets bailed out.

GrapevineSooner

5/19/2006, 10:52 PM

12 minute ball game now.

Who wants it more?

sanantoniosooner

5/19/2006, 11:00 PM

That's what the championship came down to last year.

GrapevineSooner

5/19/2006, 11:16 PM

Three and a half minute game now.

How many close games can two teams play in a series?

GrapevineSooner

5/19/2006, 11:23 PM

Spurs dump it down to Duncan and get the calls.

We drive the lane and don't get a damn thing.

jk the sooner fan

5/19/2006, 11:26 PM

welp, unless we pull out a miracle in the next 17 seconds, we'll head south for game 7....unbelievable

sanantoniosooner

5/19/2006, 11:32 PM

I still say San Antonio takes one in Dallas.

For Dallas to win, it will be in 7 in San Antonio.
http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif
posted after Dallas took a 3-1 lead.

GrapevineSooner

5/19/2006, 11:33 PM

Free Throws in the second half.

San Antonio 15
Dallas 3

sanantoniosooner

5/19/2006, 11:35 PM

Free Throws in the second half.

San Antonio 15
Dallas 3
I think similar stats were posted, in the reverse, after the Spurs losses.

What do you think about NP's theory that the refs are screwing the games up?

I certainly agree.

GrapevineSooner

5/19/2006, 11:40 PM

Oh, thank you, Stack, for having a brain dead game tonight. :mad:

I hate basketball.

GrapevineSooner

5/19/2006, 11:49 PM

Alright, Jet.

Make amends on Monday.

colleyvillesooner

5/20/2006, 12:00 AM

http://colleyvillesooner.com/stuff/BigMad.jpg

sanantoniosooner

5/20/2006, 12:07 AM

my...my...how this thread has morphed.

GrapevineSooner

5/20/2006, 12:10 AM

http://colleyvillesooner.com/stuff/BigMad.jpg

My sentiments, exactly.

sanantoniosooner

5/20/2006, 12:12 AM

I know it isn't mutual, but if the Mavs happen to win, I'll be behind them all the way.

GrapevineSooner

5/20/2006, 12:40 AM

Let's also not underrate that play at the end of the second half when Quis just barely missed getting that three off in time.

I daresay the Mavs had the Spurs on the ropes at that point. That 3 combined with a big run to start the second half might have sent the Spurs reeling.

Instead, they weathered the storm and to their credit, hit all their second half free throws.

I do have to tip my hat to them.

sanantoniosooner

5/20/2006, 08:44 AM

But they didn't.

So just **** and moan some more my bitter friend.
:O

colleyvillesooner

5/20/2006, 09:13 AM

okay, I've calmned down a little. Now it's just :mad:

mrowl

5/20/2006, 09:21 AM

I know it isn't mutual, but if the Mavs happen to win, I'll be behind them all the way.

your right, I will go back to hating basketball and questioning why I even paid attention for 2 weeks.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Why Dallas lost?

Team FG: 38.6%

mrowl

5/20/2006, 09:22 AM

BTW, that was a horrible game to watch. Foul, Foul, Foul, Foul, Foul, Foul. There was NEVER a great game flow.

mrowl

5/20/2006, 09:24 AM

and the season ticket holder that bought Terry jerseys for the front row: genius. :D

sanantoniosooner

5/20/2006, 09:48 AM

BTW, that was a horrible game to watch. Foul, Foul, Foul, Foul, Foul, Foul. There was NEVER a great game flow.
The whole series has been that way. It just bugs you less when the scoring is higher and you are winning.

and the season ticket holder that bought Terry jerseys for the front row: genius.

A whole row of nutpuchers is intimidating.

mrowl

5/20/2006, 10:01 AM

The whole series has been that way. It just bugs you less when the scoring is higher and you are winning.

seemed like it was more in the first half last night. but yes, I agree.

A whole row of nutpuchers is intimidating.

Heh.

Scott D

5/20/2006, 10:05 AM

Oh, thank you, Stack, for being brain dead everynight. :mad:

I hate basketball.

Fixed :D

GrapevineSooner

5/20/2006, 11:14 AM

your right, I will go back to hating basketball and questioning why I even paid attention for 2 weeks.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Why Dallas lost?

Team FG: 38.6%

I usually try to root for other pro Texas sports teams when my team isn't in it. But the Spurs are in contention every year. And unless it's my team doing all the winning, I hate dynasties.

I'll tell you right now that unless the Mavericks win Monday night, I won't watch another second of NBA basketball this season. The reason why?

Only 3 different teams have won the NBA championship in 7 years, only 4 different teams have won it in the last 10 years, and only 5 teams have won it in the last 19 years.

What makes the NFL, college football, NHL, and even the MLB exciting to me is that you don't really know who's going to win it year in and year out. Sure with payroll disparities, there are some teams you know will be in contention and some teams you know that won't. But once the playoffs hit, there aren't really any guarantees.

Aside from the NFL, each of the sports I just mentioned has seen more different teams win it's championship in the last six years than the NBA has seen in almost 20.

This isn't to slight the accomplishments of those teams that have been fortunate enough to win titles. And if you're a true fan of those teams (i.e. not a Bulls, Lakers, or Spurs bandwagoner), you have every right to be excited about your team's accomplishments.

The rest of us would just like to get a piece of that action.

Scott D

5/20/2006, 12:29 PM

I usually try to root for other pro Texas sports teams when my team isn't in it. But the Spurs are in contention every year. And unless it's my team doing all the winning, I hate dynasties.

I'll tell you right now that unless the Mavericks win Monday night, I won't watch another second of NBA basketball this season. The reason why?

Only 3 different teams have won the NBA championship in 7 years, only 4 different teams have won it in the last 10 years, and only 5 teams have won it in the last 19 years.

What makes the NFL, college football, NHL, and even the MLB exciting to me is that you don't really know who's going to win it year in and year out. Sure with payroll disparities, there are some teams you know will be in contention and some teams you know that won't. But once the playoffs hit, there aren't really any guarantees.

Aside from the NFL, each of the sports I just mentioned has seen more different teams win it's championship in the last six years than the NBA has seen in almost 20.

This isn't to slight the accomplishments of those teams that have been fortunate enough to win titles. And if you're a true fan of those teams (i.e. not a Bulls, Lakers, or Spurs bandwagoner), you have every right to be excited about your team's accomplishments.

The rest of us would just like to get a piece of that action.

I'm just glad that when the Pistons were bad (Grant Hill/Stackhouse eras) that they were never Knicks of this year, Bulls of 3-4 years ago, Nuggets of many years bad.

GrapevineSooner

5/20/2006, 12:36 PM

I'm just glad that when the Pistons were bad (Grant Hill/Stackhouse eras) that they were never Knicks of this year, Bulls of 3-4 years ago, Nuggets of many years bad.

Or the Mavericks of the early 90's. :D :(

Gandalf_The_Grey

5/20/2006, 01:21 PM

Remember Jay Morningstar :P

sanantoniosooner

5/20/2006, 01:40 PM

But once the playoffs hit, there aren't really any guarantees.

Aside from the NFL, each of the sports I just mentioned has seen more different teams win it's championship in the last six years than the NBA has seen in almost 20.

This isn't to slight the accomplishments of those teams that have been fortunate enough to win titles. And if you're a true fan of those teams (i.e. not a Bulls, Lakers, or Spurs bandwagoner), you have every right to be excited about your team's accomplishments.

The rest of us would just like to get a piece of that action.
There are no guarantees in the playoffs of any sport, though a best of 7 generally produces the best team as the winner. MLB sucks as you can 'almost' buy a title. The NBA sucks because of the egos, pot smoking baby factories, and the obvious agenda type officiating.

Interesting that you would gloss over the Bulls and Lakers fan and go straight to bandwagon Spurs fans. Bitterness indeed, as the Spurs bandwagon would never hold a candle to the others.

Mavs fan reminds me of aggie fan in so many ways.:D

GrapevineSooner

5/20/2006, 02:40 PM

How did I gloss over Bulls and Lakers fans?

And how you can possibly interepret what I wrote as a slam is beyond me.

Why do you hate the Yankees? Surely it isn't just because they have one of the highest payrolls in the league. Now, it's because of their 26 World Championships.

Not that it's necessarily their fault they have the highest payroll in the league. Their fellow owners and the MLBPA permit that to happen with the CBA.

And by the same token, it's not the Spurs fault for being so successful. They're simply taking advantage of the system.

Don't be so sensitive when you look at the screename to see who's writing the post.

Gandalf_The_Grey

5/20/2006, 02:46 PM

Oh dear...please don't lock this ;)

Scott D

5/20/2006, 02:48 PM

There are no guarantees in the playoffs of any sport, though a best of 7 generally produces the best team as the winner. MLB sucks as you can 'almost' buy a title. The NBA sucks because of the egos, pot smoking baby factories, and the obvious agenda type officiating.

Interesting that you would gloss over the Bulls and Lakers fan and go straight to bandwagon Spurs fans. Bitterness indeed, as the Spurs bandwagon would never hold a candle to the others.

Mavs fan reminds me of aggie fan in so many ways.:D

ironically he mentions both the Bulls and Lakers, however focuses on the Spurs because they are a more natural local rival. That'd be like me naming the Bulls, Lakers, and Celtics and ranting on either the Lakers or Celtics but leaving the Bulls alone despite them being the more obviously local rival.

And I'd consider Rocket fan to be more like aggie fan.

Gandalf_The_Grey

5/20/2006, 02:51 PM

After Dirk destroys San Antonio and Dallas is title town...lots of bandwagon fans there too ;)

Gandalf_The_Grey

5/20/2006, 02:52 PM

After Dallas wins it all, you shouldn't be allowed into the arena unless you know Fat Lever's real first name, name 10 players from the the early 90's Mavs

GrapevineSooner

5/20/2006, 02:54 PM

After Dirk destroys San Antonio and Dallas is title town...lots of bandwagon fans there too ;)

I certainly won't deny that will happen.

10 years ago, the Mavericks couldn't give tickets away. Last night, you couldn't get into the building without shelling out several hundred to get tickets on game day.

Which is kind of how it is in any city that has more than one professional sports franchise.

Scott D

5/20/2006, 02:55 PM

After Dallas wins it all, you shouldn't be allowed into the arena unless you know Fat Lever's real first name, name 10 players from the the early 90's Mavs

Lafayette was one of the more overrated Nuggets/Mavs ever ;)

GrapevineSooner

5/20/2006, 02:57 PM

I still remember when Norm Sonju acquired him along with Alex English after the '89 season. Clearly Dallas was making a title run just two years after they came within a win of getting to the NBA Finals in 1988.

Instead, it started the Mavs on an 11-year downward spiral.

Scott D

5/20/2006, 03:01 PM

GrapevineSooner

5/20/2006, 03:03 PM

Well, the problem was that the Mavs were getting English at the tail end of his career. I certainly won't belittle him, either, as he's one of the classiest players to ever grace an NBA hardwood court.

And yes, trading Aguirre for that malcontent was probably the one move that started it all.

Downward spiral for the Mavs while Aguirre was the final piece of the puzzle to the Pistons championship teams.

Scott D

5/20/2006, 03:04 PM

sanantoniosooner

5/20/2006, 04:43 PM

And I'd consider Rocket fan to be more like aggie fan.
Maybe Houston football fans, but they got some championships in the NBA. Even if it was due to MJ's baseball fetish.

sanantoniosooner

5/20/2006, 04:44 PM

And by the same token, it's not the Spurs fault for being so successful. They're simply taking advantage of the system.
How do the spurs take advantage of the system?

San Antonio is a small market and that makes it harder to get or retain top players. They have built their 'dynasty' by bucking the system that is popular. They have had to get players to buy into a system and believe in the mission.

It's atypical.

GrapevineSooner

5/20/2006, 05:06 PM

StoopTroup

5/20/2006, 05:16 PM

GO MAVS!

sanantoniosooner

5/20/2006, 05:34 PM

They have a strong low-post guy.

Something the Mavericks have never had in their team's history.

If you have a talented low post player and a good coach who preaches a good system, thus, making you a contender for a title year in and year out, you could be based in Timbuktu and still attract and retain quality players.

Why?

For the same reason Fin signed with you guys.

To get a shot at a ring.

Just consider yourself very fortunate that you have Tim Duncan and Greg Popovich. As long as you have those guys, you'll be able to attract the talent necessary to win.
Tim stays because David Robinson convinced him to continue his legacy here, and he knows that the orginization makes decisions based on winning not on affection for a player. Even if it means trading someone you love as part of the team. Antonio Daniels and Malik Rose being examples.

They don't attract talent with ego. The guys that come here for a chance to win are willing to take a role position and be part of a team.

yeah, we are fortunate to have Pop and Tim. Just like you are fortunate to have Dirk and Avery. And every other successful team is fortunate to have good coaching and players. Seems like a prerequisite to success to me.

A lot of players in their prime wouldn't come here because they make as much money from endorsements as they do salary, and that potential is limited here.

BeetDigger

5/20/2006, 05:36 PM

Now on the other hand I will never belittle Alex English....I met him more than a few times when we lived in Denver.

I think getting Adrian Dantley for Mark Agguire was what sent the Mavs on that downward spiral ;)

Alex was about unstoppable. You couldn't block that shot. Oh yeah, he deserved to be left off the top 50 NBA players of all time and Scottie Pippen deserved to be on it. :rolleyes:

I think English is still in the top 10 scoring all time.

BeetDigger

5/20/2006, 05:40 PM

Tim stays because David Robinson convinced him to continue his legacy here, and he knows that the orginization makes decisions based on winning not on affection for a player. Even if it means trading someone you love as part of the team. Antonio Daniels and Malik Rose being examples.

They don't attract talent with ego. The guys that come here for a chance to win are willing to take a role position and be part of a team.

yeah, we are fortunate to have Pop and Tim. Just like you are fortunate to have Dirk and Avery. And every other successful team is fortunate to have good coaching and players. Seems like a prerequisite to success to me.

A lot of players in their prime wouldn't come here because they make as much money from endorsements as they do salary, and that potential is limited here.

It really is a toss up who is the more fortunate team with the draft, Orlando or San Antonio. Nice tank job that year Robinson went down. The NBA rewarded them with the first pick of the draft.

sanantoniosooner

5/20/2006, 05:55 PM

It really is a toss up who is the more fortunate team with the draft, Orlando or San Antonio. Nice tank job that year Robinson went down. The NBA rewarded them with the first pick of the draft.
You are so transparent it cracks me up.

BOO HISS.......THE SPURS ARE EVIL

cracks.
me.
up.

Sooner95

5/21/2006, 10:36 AM

Alex English, Fat Lever, Dantley...blasts mfrom the past Midwest Divison Glory days..

Old McNichols Arena, Reunion Arena...course during that time, everyone was playing for 2nd placein the Western Conf behind them Lakers..but it sure was fun to contend with the Nuggets..

remember the 86 season, Nuggets had an awful record.. 35-47? but still made playoffs to get swept by the Lakers..lol 84-85 fell to Lakers in West Conf Finals 4-1 88 season Dallas got them 4-2..

anyhoo... Now that the 2 Monsters have won game 6's onthe roads, I think Detroit finishes off the Cavs now... SPurs will have a more difficult time with Dallas tho... little more experience on the Mavs as too Clev..

Gandalf_The_Grey

5/21/2006, 11:58 AM

Who's team color's did Darth Vader wear....The San Antonio Spurts....enough said ;)

BeetDigger

5/21/2006, 12:42 PM

You are so transparent it cracks me up.

BOO HISS.......THE SPURS ARE EVIL

cracks.
me.
up.

Dude, facts are facts. I am no Mavs fan. Face it, the Spurs were very, very fortunate. How many teams have had the first pick of the draft? How many have had it TWICE? I'm just one of thousands of people who noted it the year that Robinson went down and the Spurs went out of their way to tank it. There were commentators even discussing it. Then the NBA rewards them with the first pick. Was it luck or intervention? Don't know, but it was one of them for sure.

sanantoniosooner

5/21/2006, 02:08 PM

Dude, facts are facts. I am no Mavs fan. Face it, the Spurs were very, very fortunate. How many teams have had the first pick of the draft? How many have had it TWICE? I'm just one of thousands of people who noted it the year that Robinson went down and the Spurs went out of their way to tank it. There were commentators even discussing it. Then the NBA rewards them with the first pick. Was it luck or intervention? Don't know, but it was one of them for sure.
There's a lot of speculation possible. The Spurs got the number one pick by virtue of the lottery and moving up in it. They weren't guaranteed the top pick. They relied on one player more than most teams ever do and when David went down, they were in disarray under Hill, who got fired.

I also "used" to think that it was a crappy way that Pop got the job. Robinson was down for most of the season and Pop fired Hill and took the HC job. I thought it stunk, but all of the thing Pop said when the change happened has come to pass. Hill was fired because they played crappy defense. What did Pop do? He made the Spurs one of the top defenses year in and out. There were other things that Pop preached about changing, and he has proven to do exactly what he said he would.

You are welcome to speculate about the motivations of the Spurs and Pop if you like. I did, and I found out I was wrong. I think you probably are also.

GrapevineSooner

5/21/2006, 02:18 PM

King Crimson

5/21/2006, 02:58 PM

somebody needs to make it clear to Cleveland's Varejao that he's a disaster on the O end.

tulsaoilerfan

5/21/2006, 07:07 PM

You wanna talk about draft lottery conspiracies, what about the Knicks getting Ewing the very first year of the lottery?

Scott D

5/21/2006, 09:38 PM

somebody needs to make it clear to Carlito that he's a disaster on the O end and should stick to wrestling.

fixed :)

bri

5/21/2006, 10:22 PM

Scott, dat's not cool.

;)

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi

5/21/2006, 11:06 PM

Now on the other hand I will never belittle Alex English....I met him more than a few times when we lived in Denver.

I think getting Adrian Dantley for Mark Agguire was what sent the Mavs on that downward spiral ;)

don't forget roy tarpley. fat lever was one of the best rebounding guards i've seen. of course, kevin johnson was always my favorite to watch. i still have the poster of him dunking over mark eaton.

Scott D

5/21/2006, 11:49 PM

Scott, dat's not cool.

;)

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/Bios/carlito.JPG http://nbadraft.net/profiles/headshots/anderson-varejao-hd.jpg

I'm jus' sayin' ;)

Scott D

5/21/2006, 11:50 PM

don't forget roy tarpley. fat lever was one of the best rebounding guards i've seen. of course, kevin johnson was always my favorite to watch. i still have the poster of him dunking over mark eaton.

Mavs coulda gotten more out of Tarpley in practice if they'd left lines for him to snort at each baseline every day :D

GrapevineSooner

5/21/2006, 11:56 PM

The running joke with Tarpley was that if you put a pound of coke on one table and a million dollars on the other, he'd pick the coke.

Perhaps the Mavericks should have paid his salary in coke instead of money?

Scott D

5/22/2006, 12:01 AM

BeetDigger

5/22/2006, 08:54 AM

I don't believe there was any conspiracy involved.

But I do think the Spurs got very lucky. ;)

Mind you, I think all professional drafts are just crapshoots when you get down to it. Who knew that Dirk would turn into the player he is today?

I don't believe in total conspiracy with the NBA. I don't think that Stern figures out ahead of time who is going to win game/series. I do believe that the NBA does play a very heavy hand in player movement however. Not only in the draft "lottery" but in Free Agency.

Three years ago the east was in total decline. Sure Detroit had just beaten "Team USA/LA" with Shaq, Kobe, Malone, Payton,.... but Detroit was the lone marquee team. There were very, very few marquee players in the east and one of the biggest, Kidd, was ready to move. He was looking at all of the top teams in the West, specifically San Antonio. Fast forward four months and what happened - four of the first five picks went to the east, specifically LeBron and Kidd stays in NJ (probably preventing a run of three or four straight championships by the Spurs). A year later, Shaq moves to Miami.

Now, suddenly, the east has a star player infusion and the population heavy east coast has plenty of marquee players. Perhaps it is just luck or natural forces that caused it. What is obvious is that the league is much stronger financially with the way things are today rather than having Shaq, Kidd, LeBron and maybe even Wade out west. Didn't ESPN sign their contract in the last couple of years? Probably just coincidence.

colleyvillesooner

5/22/2006, 09:00 AM

I just found it funny that Lebron was one of the most hyped players ever to enter the Draft, and just happened to go to an NBA team 40 miles from his house that had a 22% chance of getting the first pick.

NormanPride

5/22/2006, 09:19 AM

colleyvillesooner

5/22/2006, 09:24 AM

BeetDigger

5/22/2006, 09:51 AM

What are you saying, colley?! That the NBA is rigged? SURELY YOU JEST! ;)

Also, it's nice to see others are joining in my "refs have ruined this series" crusade. I wonder who will execute best in the last 2 minutes tonight? :rolleyes: I'm getting tired of all the "It's such a great, close series!" yapping from the talking heads. Man, it's like they don't even watch.

The refs may be ruining the series, but SA is not helping it out with their style. You can protest all you want, but look at the last box score. SA's game was to put it in the low post and or to drive to the hoop and get fouled. And that's what happened. I am not saying that the refs are playing favorites, I am saying that the Spurs are playing a style that is forcing the refs to call fouls. You want to complain about the flow of the game, perhaps you should talk to Pop about his game plan. I know that the Mavs would like a more up-tempo game. Either that, or I am just imagining the commentators saying that "The Spurs are playing right into the Mavs game plan" every time it turns into a up-tempo, transistion style game.

NormanPride

5/22/2006, 10:15 AM

Scott D

5/22/2006, 10:24 AM

you ever notice how doleo has been very quiet on this subject...of course now he gets to pretend he's a Heat fan again ;)

BeetDigger

5/22/2006, 11:00 AM

Whatever, man. We've played it all year and never drew this many fouls. And acting like the Mavs weren't doing it before Terry got suspended is stupid. Every time I tuned in, it was one of the guards or Dirk flying into the lane out of control. It's called "The refs are being idiots, so we might as well take what they give us".

I'm beginning to think SAS is right. Why do you hate the Spurs so much?

The bottom line behind this game is that we had three starters have to sit the first half because of fouls. Then in the second half, the calls went the other way. Terrible. Officiating.

So, me not agreeing with you means I hate the Spurs?

You think that the officials are terrible both ways, mainly because they are calling so many fouls both ways. Well, the fact is that Duncan is up 4.5 free throws per game over his season average in this series. The Spurs are up 9.5 FT's per game in this series while the Mavs are up 3.7 FT's per game in this series, vs. their regular season averages.

Seems to me that if you don't like the refs controlling the game, you should talk to Pop about his game plan. If that makes me a Spur hater, then whatever.

NormanPride

5/22/2006, 11:42 AM

So, me not agreeing with you means I hate the Spurs?

You think that the officials are terrible both ways, mainly because they are calling so many fouls both ways. Well, the fact is that Duncan is up 4.5 free throws per game over his season average in this series. The Spurs are up 9.5 FT's per game in this series while the Mavs are up 3.7 FT's per game in this series, vs. their regular season averages.

Seems to me that if you don't like the refs controlling the game, you should talk to Pop about his game plan. If that makes me a Spur hater, then whatever.

Actually, with those numbers it would seem that the Mavs run more of a foul-happy offense, as the shots have evened out mostly with the last couple games being in the Spurs' favor. We haven't changed our gameplan much, and yet the fouls are going higher - so how is it our fault? Our gameplan during the season yielded 9.5 fewer FTs by your own numbers, wouldn't that indicate that the refs are being ticky-tack in this series?

And no, I don't think just because you disagree with me you hate the Spurs. I think that because a lot of your posts go out of their way to point out their faults, that you have something against the team. I mean, Colley and Grapevine are good Mavs fans that talk smack and pump their own team, but you've only talked bad about the Spurs while saying "I'm not a Mavs fan". Well, what the heck am I supposed to think?

colleyvillesooner

5/22/2006, 11:57 AM

Spurs Suck :D

NormanPride

5/22/2006, 12:06 PM

Mavs blow ;)

GrapevineSooner

5/22/2006, 12:11 PM

Duncan Whines. :D

colleyvillesooner

5/22/2006, 12:22 PM

Duncan Whines. :D

I asked the Fark board to make that picture happens. You should go second the motion.

:D

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi

5/22/2006, 12:42 PM

Duncan Whines. :D

http://digitalfilmmaker.net/dv/features/roadMovies/images/sideways.jpg

i don't want no frickin' merlot!!!! :mad:

BeetDigger

5/22/2006, 12:48 PM

Actually, with those numbers it would seem that the Mavs run more of a foul-happy offense, as the shots have evened out mostly with the last couple games being in the Spurs' favor. We haven't changed our gameplan much, and yet the fouls are going higher - so how is it our fault? Our gameplan during the season yielded 9.5 fewer FTs by your own numbers, wouldn't that indicate that the refs are being ticky-tack in this series?

And no, I don't think just because you disagree with me you hate the Spurs. I think that because a lot of your posts go out of their way to point out their faults, that you have something against the team. I mean, Colley and Grapevine are good Mavs fans that talk smack and pump their own team, but you've only talked bad about the Spurs while saying "I'm not a Mavs fan". Well, what the heck am I supposed to think?

I am actually laughing out loud right now. I am a Spurs hater and, according to you, worse than other posters because I don't "pump my own team". Hilarious. So all of the great comments that have gone back and forth between the Spurs and Mavs fans are preferrable to someone trying to objectively analyze some aspects of the series. So, the petty comments and negspeking and the whining about the negspeking is how you prefer the commentary to go. Got it.

Hard to believe that a guy whose team is getting nearly 10 FT's a game higher than their season average is complaining about the officiating. The first half of game 6 the officials appeard to be whistle happy. There was no flow to the game as everything was being called. Don't you think that the emotions that were running up to the game had something to do with the officials calling the first half that way? That they didn't want the game to get out of control had something to do with it? The second half was far different, at least from a Spurs point of view as the final tally of fouls and free throws attests.

To your point about SAS's beef with me, yeah, we should all hail the Spurs for tanking the season, getting the #1 pick of the draft and going out on a limb and taking Duncan with that first pick. There was some fine scouting done there. Dirk was the #8 pick of the draft and was a relative unknown. To me, that pick deserves credit. As does the drafting of Ginobli and Parker by the Spurs. Drafting Duncan was akin to being born and finding out your dad is Donald Trump.

Scott D

5/22/2006, 01:11 PM

speaking of the 97 draft....I don't even remember Scot Pollard playing 33 games for the Pistons. I do however remember the Pistons trading for that gimp Laettner.

NormanPride

5/22/2006, 01:30 PM

I am actually laughing out loud right now. I am a Spurs hater and, according to you, worse than other posters because I don't "pump my own team". Hilarious. So all of the great comments that have gone back and forth between the Spurs and Mavs fans are preferrable to someone trying to objectively analyze some aspects of the series. So, the petty comments and negspeking and the whining about the negspeking is how you prefer the commentary to go. Got it.

Hard to believe that a guy whose team is getting nearly 10 FT's a game higher than their season average is complaining about the officiating. The first half of game 6 the officials appeard to be whistle happy. There was no flow to the game as everything was being called. Don't you think that the emotions that were running up to the game had something to do with the officials calling the first half that way? That they didn't want the game to get out of control had something to do with it? The second half was far different, at least from a Spurs point of view as the final tally of fouls and free throws attests.

To your point about SAS's beef with me, yeah, we should all hail the Spurs for tanking the season, getting the #1 pick of the draft and going out on a limb and taking Duncan with that first pick. There was some fine scouting done there. Dirk was the #8 pick of the draft and was a relative unknown. To me, that pick deserves credit. As does the drafting of Ginobli and Parker by the Spurs. Drafting Duncan was akin to being born and finding out your dad is Donald Trump.

You really don't know the difference between talking smack and just hating? Come on. That's like a Michigan fan coming over and talking crap to us during OU/Texas. You know we wouldn't stand for that, and I'm not doing it now. I'd respect your "objective analysis" if it was more than "the Spurs are the cause of this slow tempo". If you talked about the matchup issues Dirk causes the Spurs, or the emergence of Howard, or the impact that Terry's absence had on game 6, or the injuries that are slowing Parker down and allowing Harris to go off, then I'd pay attention. Instead, all you're doing is saying "the Spurs just dump it low to Duncan and get fouls" when that's not even a close description of the game's dynamic. I don't think you hate the Spurs but it's obvious our style of play is not your favorite, and thus you're concentrating on what you dislike.

Personally, I hate winning with foul shots. But then again, I'm an honorable competitor. Most of all, I was looking forward to a really hard-fought series. Instead, what I'm seeing is refs controlling the game so it's close until the last couple minutes and whoever hits their shots at the end wins. To me, that is boring. If that excites you, then have fun.

Also, I'd believe the refs called the first half close in order to manage high emotions if the officiating hadn't been so bad all series. As it is, I just looked at it as inconsistent officiating. Which is what it was.

colleyvillesooner

5/22/2006, 01:37 PM

Well, you'll be happy to know it's the Game 4 crew that's officiating tonight.
http://www.bbsr.de/images/nba/dick_bavetta_gross.jpg

NormanPride

5/22/2006, 01:38 PM

That guy makes me sad. :(

Scott D

5/22/2006, 01:46 PM

http://compuserve.nba.com/media/cavaliers/bavetta_041104.jpg

heh so much for the game being played tonight...Bavetta will make himself the central focus.

NormanPride

5/22/2006, 01:55 PM

That's exactly what this series needs.

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi

5/22/2006, 02:02 PM

bavetta doing the macarena?

Scott D

5/22/2006, 02:05 PM

doesn't every series need bavetta doing the macarena? :D

BeetDigger

5/22/2006, 02:07 PM

Personally, I hate winning with foul shots. But then again, I'm an honorable competitor. Most of all, I was looking forward to a really hard-fought series. Instead, what I'm seeing is refs controlling the game so it's close until the last couple minutes and whoever hits their shots at the end wins. To me, that is boring. If that excites you, then have fun.

It is not what excites me in the least. I'm just saying that Pop is promoting it. And I posted stats to back it up. (I neglected to post the fact that for the series, Duncan is shooting 34% of the Spurs free throws, up from 29% during the season). You want more stats? Ok, the Mavs are up in their FT's per game during the series vs. the regular season. But that includes game 3 with 50 FT's for the Mavs, which is a large outlier (the rest of their games were 28, 43, 32, 19 and 20). Take away game 3 and the Mavs have averaged 28.4 FT's per game vs. 28.3 for the regular season.

I would be happy to adjust a game or two for the Spurs, but they have shot 30, 37, 32, 32, 31 and 34 FT's in the games respectively. Which one is an outlier? To me, it seems pretty clear that the Spurs game plan is to get to the line and they have, 33 times per game.

You can complain that the refs are controlling the game and the outcome, but if they didn't, I think Pop would be upset. To me, it looks like his plan is to get to the line, and they have, to the tune of 10 + a game over their season average. You can continue to be mad at me and the refs, but I think you're directing your anger in the wrong direction. :D

NormanPride

5/22/2006, 02:16 PM

It is not what excites me in the least. I'm just saying that Pop is promoting it. And I posted stats to back it up. (I neglected to post the fact that for the series, Duncan is shooting 34% of the Spurs free throws, up from 29% during the season). You want more stats? Ok, the Mavs are up in their FT's per game during the series vs. the regular season. But that includes game 3 with 50 FT's for the Mavs, which is a large outlier (the rest of their games were 28, 43, 32, 19 and 20). Take away game 3 and the Mavs have averaged 28.4 FT's per game vs. 28.3 for the regular season.

I would be happy to adjust a game or two for the Spurs, but they have shot 30, 37, 32, 32, 31 and 34 FT's in the games respectively. Which one is an outlier? To me, it seems pretty clear that the Spurs game plan is to get to the line and they have, 33 times per game.

You can complain that the refs are controlling the game and the outcome, but if they didn't, I think Pop would be upset. To me, it looks like his plan is to get to the line, and they have, to the tune of 10 + a game over their season average. You can continue to be mad at me and the refs, but I think you're directing your anger in the wrong direction. :D

Actually, that's a really good point. And now that I think about it, it makes a lot more sense with the lineup we've been choosing. We're running without a center, which is putting more speed on the court. That's getting our guards down low and drawing fouls more. From what I've seen, we're trying to match Dallas' style of play as much as possible, which accounts for the increased foul shots. We run 1/3 - 1/2 our O through Duncan, which means he gets those calls, but without the other big guy in there, there's another guard to draw fouls. The difference in this series has been Tim and Dirk. Dirk is rebounding like I've never seen due to us running with no center, but Tim has stepped up his play in a way I didn't think could be done considering his injury.

Therefore, with the refs calling the games like in the regular season (something I still have an issue with) the scores tend to be closer with all the fouls. While I don't think Pop's sole plan is to get to the line, I do think he's expecting the increased foul shots to make up for the gap in speed and athleticism at the guard position. So, you're right in the respect that we're getting to the line more because of our lineup, but I think "the Spurs are to blame for this pace" is a bit rough since we're just trying to match up with Dallas. :P

sanantoniosooner

5/22/2006, 02:22 PM

For the record.......I got no beef with beetdigger.

I just called out his veiled hating. :D

Aren't all team fortunate when they draft a great player? It still takes a great organization to capitalize on it. How many times have the Clippers had the top pick, and how many championships do they have? Getting a great player isn't enough.

Also, harping on Duncan's increase in FTs is a little silly considering how it's been discussed repeatedly how his season stats were down because they were saving something for the playoffs with his foot injury. He held back during the season and now he's giving it all he's got. Imagine that, his points have increased.

Cuban plays the smack game great, and some of the Mav fans don't even know he's joking.

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi

5/22/2006, 02:28 PM

this thread resembles a double helix

NormanPride

5/22/2006, 02:30 PM

Your mom resembles a double helix... oooh.... burn.

:D

colleyvillesooner

5/22/2006, 02:32 PM

Your mom resembles a double helix... oooh.... burn.

:D

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d40/calland/owned.gif
:D

sanantoniosooner

5/22/2006, 02:34 PM

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d40/calland/owned.gif
:D
I didn't want this to get buried in the middle of the page.

colleyvillesooner

5/22/2006, 02:43 PM

Thanks.

sanantoniosooner

5/22/2006, 02:50 PM

and don't you guys think I didn't catch that macarena jab which is obviously pointed at San Antonio.

GrapevineSooner

5/22/2006, 03:06 PM

Cuban plays the smack game great, and some of the Mav fans don't even know he's joking.

Sometimes he's joking.

Other times, like his defense of Jason Terry on the radio last Thursday after the suspension was handed down, is because he's speaking on raw emotion and can't think logically.

Which led to a sorry-a**ed defense of Jason Terry/Finley bashing session.

And after his encounter with Bruce Bowen the other night, I wonder if the Mavs would be better off if Cuban weren't in the building tonight.

BeetDigger

5/22/2006, 03:40 PM

For the record.......I got no beef with beetdigger.

Good. Chicken, fish, maybe. But not beef.

I just called out his veiled hating. :D

I hate the Mavs too. But less because they have never won a championship. Therefore, I would prefer that they win.

Aren't all team fortunate when they draft a great player? It still takes a great organization to capitalize on it. How many times have the Clippers had the top pick, and how many championships do they have? Getting a great player isn't enough.

True. But put my post in context. It was in direct response to you post discussing Tim and comparing him to Dirk and so forth. True, other teams have had the #1 pick, but not ALL teams, much less teams that have had it more than one time. I give more credit to Dallas with Dirk than I do SA and Duncan. Dirk was a much bigger risk and was taken at #8 in the draft. Its like I wouldn't give Houston for taking Akeem. Same with Chicago for taking Jordan. My 8 year old could make obvious picks like those. :D

Oh, and as far as developing Duncan. The dude averaged 22 and 12 his rookie year. The guy was about as plug and play as they get. The only developing the Spurs did was to stay out of his way and to tell him and Robinson to pass to each other. :D

Also, harping on Duncan's increase in FTs is a little silly considering how it's been discussed repeatedly how his season stats were down because they were saving something for the playoffs with his foot injury. He held back during the season and now he's giving it all he's got. Imagine that, his points have increased.

I'm not harping on them. I am just pointing out that the increase in the fouls being called are due to the style of game SA is playing. I have seen a few calls on both teams that were bad calls. But in my opinion, there haven't been a lot of blatant calls one way or the other. I did not see game 1, so I don't know why Cuban was so upset, but him being upset with the officials is nothing new. And his veiled, "I'm just trying to improve officiating for the entire league" crap is wearing thin. No Mark, you want the Mavs to get more calls, period.

And about the Mavs complaining about Duncan whining. Hey, people harping about Duncan whining is nothing new. See Phil Jackson, circa 2003 or so. Last I checked, Duncan shoots about 7 FT's a game for his career and has averaged about 2.8 fouls a game for his career. I think Tim has gotten more calls for him than against him.

Cuban plays the smack game great, and some of the Mav fans don't even know he's joking.

Cuban has been terrific for the Mavs. I cannot remember too many owners taking over and having such an impact on a pro team. He really does deserve a lot of credit. That said, I wish the guy would go up to his owners box, stay off camera and shut up. Oh I know the Maloofs sit courtside and cheer the team but they don't get nearly as involved as Cuban does. The dude needs to hang out with Jerry Buss and play poker on TV or something.

GrapevineSooner

5/22/2006, 03:52 PM

I'll say this much in defense of Duncan.

Those fouls called on players defending him vs, fouls called on him will tend to be a little skewed in this series because the Mavericks are only asking the centers that Duncan is guarding to do two things.

And neither of those things involve being the focal point of the offense.

Therefore, the only time Duncan's going to get called for fouls in this series is either at the offensive end or when he's sliding over as a help defender when Dirk, Devin, Terry, J-Ho, or Quisy drive the lane.

That having been said, I do wish Duncan would drop his palms up in the air/hug the ball routine on every other whistle against him or when he doesn't get a call at the offensive end. ;)

It's as annoying as Cuban's whining.

Or as annoying as my own whining to some of you. :D

colleyvillesooner

5/22/2006, 04:11 PM

Aren't all team fortunate when they draft a great player? It still takes a great organization to capitalize on it. How many times have the Clippers had the top pick, and how many championships do they have? Getting a great player isn't enough.

Since the lottery in 1985, teams have this many #1 picks:

Orlando - 3
San Antonio - 2
New Jersey - 2
Milwaukee - 2
L.A. Clippers - 2
Cleveland - 2
8 Teams - 1

San Antonio is the only team to win the Championship after having the #1 pick. 1999 after Duncan (97) was the first. The Nets made it to the finals two years in a row 1 year after they had the #1 pick. Orlando made it to the finals the year after they got Shaq and Penny Hardaway (via trade of the #1 pick)

So of the 14 teams that have drafted #1 since 1985, they have made 8 appearances in the finals. It's probably alot higher for those teams making the playoffs.

So Duncan and Shaq, two of the greatest players of all time and no brainer #1 picks, helped their team immediately, and with in two years were in the Finals.

colleyvillesooner

5/22/2006, 04:27 PM

HOLY ****!!!!

ESPN Radio just said it's not Bavetta's crew. It's 3 #1's

Bavetta, Javey and another guy whose name I didn't catch. He hasn't officiated a game in this series they said.

:eek:

NormanPride

5/22/2006, 04:31 PM

Looks like the NBA's bringing out the big guns to make sure that this series turns out how they want. :mad:

colleyvillesooner

5/22/2006, 04:32 PM

Looks like the NBA's bringing out the big guns to make sure that this series turns out how they want. :mad:

That would be a SPURS win. You think they want the Mavs, a wheels off team with no real center, run by Mark Cuban to win?

GrapevineSooner

5/22/2006, 04:33 PM

1998 after Duncan (97) was the first.

Actually, it was that lockout-shortened-not-quite-legit-season of 1999 that they won. ;)

GrapevineSooner

5/22/2006, 04:34 PM

That would be a SPURS win. You think they want the Mavs, a wheels off team with no real center, run by Mark Cuban to win?

David Stern's worst nightmare?

Easily, it's having to hand the Larry O'Brien trophy over to Mark Cuban. :D

No way the NBA wants any part of that. ;)

colleyvillesooner

5/22/2006, 04:51 PM

Actually, it was that lockout-shortened-not-quite-legit-season of 1999 that they won. ;)

heh and fixed

BeetDigger

5/22/2006, 04:58 PM

David Stern's worst nightmare?

Easily, it's having to hand the Larry O'Brien trophy over to Mark Cuban. :D

No way the NBA wants any part of that. ;)

Sheesh, you guys are already blaming a loss on Stern. :D They haven't even played the game.

Besides, the NFL gave the trophy to Al Davis so it's not like the complainers can't win it.

If anything, having this crew is appeasing Cuban by saying that they are having the top referees officiating the game. I don't know how these guys stack up in the "official" ranking system, but I assume that having three veterans who are all crew chiefs means that they are very, very good.

And last I checked, there are TWO more series to go before any trophy is handed out. And you know, a team may win it without any help from the NBA. :eek: :D

colleyvillesooner

5/22/2006, 05:03 PM

Sheesh, you guys are already blaming a loss on Stern. :D They haven't even played the game.

Besides, the NFL gave the trophy to Al Davis so it's not like the complainers can't win it.

If anything, having this crew is appeasing Cuban by saying that they are having the top referees officiating the game. I don't know how these guys stack up in the "official" ranking system, but I assume that having three veterans who are all crew chiefs means that they are very, very good.

And last I checked, there are TWO more series to go before any trophy is handed out. And you know, a team may win it without any help from the NBA. :eek: :D

We're just kidding. Without player involvement, it's impossible to fix a game with just referee influence.

There may be two more rounds left, but the Mav's can't win games they don't play in. ;)

colleyvillesooner

5/22/2006, 05:23 PM

http://images.sportsline.com/u/photos/basketball/nba/img9454336.jpg

Let's get it on!!!!

NormanPride

5/22/2006, 05:24 PM

GrapevineSooner

5/22/2006, 05:34 PM

http://images.sportsline.com/u/photos/basketball/nba/img9454336.jpg

Let's get it on!!!!

After playing a Quintuplet OT Game 7, the Spurs and Mavs decide their series with a winner-takes-all arm wrestle.

BeetDigger

5/22/2006, 05:44 PM

We're just kidding. Without player involvement, it's impossible to fix a game with just referee influence.

There may be two more rounds left, but the Mav's can't win games they don't play in. ;)

I will make you feel better by predicting that the Spurs will win in a walk tonight. Now knowing that I am almost always 180 degrees out in my predictions should give Mavs fans much comfort. Actually, the Spurs had one "let down" game. The Mavs have not had any. Truth be told, the Mavs could be due for one.

BeetDigger

5/22/2006, 05:50 PM

Heh. One of the reasons I think the NBA has been weird with this series is because they're kind of torn on who they want to win. On one hand, you have a small-market, "boring" team that nobody but its die-hard fans cares about. On the other, you've got an owner who REALLY pis$es you off, and a German superstar few people can connect with. Which will earn you more money? Dallas. Which is the least offensive? San Antonio.

I'll also note that since Cuban has been mouthing off, the refs have favored SA more. His whinyness combined with the Spurs trying to play Dallas' tempo means the NBA might have made its decision. :D

Of course, the NBA would never think like this. That would ruin the game! ;)

I'm not sure that the NBA goes so far as to determine the outcome of games. As I mentioned, I think that NBA is very heavy handed in player movement. In that regard, SA has had the #1 pick twice. So, clearly the NBA doesn't hate SA. And both of those players have played their entire career there. Look at Orlando. It was clear that Shaq meant more to the league elsewhere. It's only a matter of time before the next superstar is moved to Boston.

mrowl

5/22/2006, 06:09 PM

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/drbio/Whine.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g134/evilmaggi/SpursFishingTrip.jpg

and just cause I think this is funny:

http://img275.imageshack.us/img275/9537/cubandunk0wr.gif

sanantoniosooner

5/22/2006, 06:38 PM

You guys like Phil Jacksons koolaid when it suits you.:D

Actually, it was that lockout-shortened-not-quite-legit-season of 1999 that they won. ;)

NormanPride

5/22/2006, 08:16 PM

So the Mavs shoot 8 brazillion % and we're down 14. I'd say that isn't apocalyptic, but... holy crap, guys. I've never seen a team shoot 80% in a quarter. Fouls favor us, but we're also the only ones really driving to the basket...

Well, crap.

sanantoniosooner

5/22/2006, 08:27 PM

I'd wager that somebody starts the second half with a run.

Either the Spurs whittle it down, or the Mavs pour it on.

NormanPride

5/22/2006, 08:29 PM

Well sports fans better wish for a Spurs run because the other would be very boring.

Scott D

5/22/2006, 08:37 PM

The Spurs fan who just put up a hasselhoff poster needs to die.

And for good measure....Van Horn appears to be getting worse..he looks lost on the OFFENSIVE end as well as the defensive end. :D

sanantoniosooner

5/22/2006, 08:39 PM

The Spurs fan who just put up a hasselhoff poster needs to die.
you don't know greatness when you see it.

NormanPride

5/22/2006, 08:44 PM

It was you, wasn't it?

Scott D

5/22/2006, 08:45 PM

anything involving Hasselhoff is as far from greatness as Keith Van Horn is from knowing what defense is.

p.s. Jason Terry has that same rat face look as Willie McGee. :D

colleyvillesooner

5/22/2006, 08:51 PM

Looks like the NBA's bringing out the big guns to make sure that this series turns out how they want. :mad:

Sure looks like it now. :mad:

;)

NormanPride

5/22/2006, 08:53 PM

Heck, we're still down 6, but this is a lot more exciting than it was.

colleyvillesooner

5/22/2006, 09:00 PM

Hey, Javy, it is possible for Duncan to get called for the over the back. He does do it.

This is going to be one hell of a quarter.

Spurs have taken 28 FT attempts, Mavs 9. Hmmmmmm.....

NormanPride

5/22/2006, 09:04 PM

I noticed that as well. While I think some is crap, you guys really just aren't putting yourselves in the position to shoot foul shots.

I've noticed over-the-back just isn't called in the NBA like it's called in NCAA.

NormanPride

5/22/2006, 09:05 PM

Psh. As much as I love winning, I don't like some of the fouls they're calling down low.

NormanPride

5/22/2006, 09:11 PM

I think our outside shooters need to stop listening to Foreigner and start listening to Loverboy. :mad:

Scott D

5/22/2006, 09:13 PM

*vomit* game seven of last year's finals *vomit*

Scott D

5/22/2006, 09:19 PM

Dirk, you are nearly 7' tall, and clearly outweigh Parker by at least 70lbs...how can you nearly be upended without leaving the ground?

NormanPride

5/22/2006, 09:22 PM

Because he flops with the best of them?

Scott D

5/22/2006, 09:22 PM

Parker, when you are alone under the basket you do not pass to Bowen on the wing for the 3 when down by 3 with 6 minutes left.

GrapevineSooner

5/22/2006, 09:24 PM

Stack, when you drive the lane and get a good look from 10 feet out...

Please hit it.

BTW, I'm biting my tongue on the officiating right now. ;)

GrapevineSooner

5/22/2006, 09:27 PM

Another Zocor-mandatory game. :D :(

NormanPride

5/22/2006, 09:29 PM

heh.

It's been mediocre both ways. Sure, we're shooting more FTs, but we're also driving a lot more. And I'd say the gift fouls for Duncan down low are negated by the rebounding fouls given to Dirk for his efforts at outrebounding people half his height. ;)

Scott D

5/22/2006, 09:31 PM

bubye Van Gimp.

fwiw, the Mavs should always have at least 4 more fouls called on them than their opponent just because they give Keith Van Horn a paycheck :D

Scott D

5/22/2006, 09:34 PM

Yes Duncan, that was a foul on you....and heh Steve Kerr for calling out his former teammate.

NormanPride

5/22/2006, 09:36 PM

Howard needs to learn how to flop better. :D He already gets the call and then pushes himself halfway across the court.

Scott D

5/22/2006, 09:37 PM

Dampier couldn't stop a cold much less Duncan :D

NormanPride

5/22/2006, 09:38 PM

According to CBS Sportsline, Dampier fouls out with 7 fouls. I love you, CBS.

GrapevineSooner

5/22/2006, 09:38 PM

Wilt couldn't stop Duncan when he keeps getting those kinds of calls down low. :mad:

NormanPride

5/22/2006, 09:39 PM

Could there be any other ending? Close as hell.

Scott D

5/22/2006, 09:40 PM

I hate to say it, but that shot of Cuban after Manu hit that 3 to give the Spurs the lead was priceless

NormanPride

5/22/2006, 09:42 PM

Ugh. There's your call down low, Mavs fans. :D

GrapevineSooner

5/22/2006, 09:43 PM

About damn time.

GrapevineSooner

5/22/2006, 09:45 PM

I'll say this much...

We had a 20 point lead. In spite of what anyone says about the refs, you should not lose a 20 point lead in a Game 7.

NormanPride

5/22/2006, 09:46 PM

Crap. I don't want ANOTHER heart attack...

GrapevineSooner

5/22/2006, 09:47 PM

A little bit of contact on Ginobli's drive...

But STFU, Timmy!! That wasn't even anything close to a foul when you put it up. That's just a conditioned response anytime you miss a shot.

GrapevineSooner

5/22/2006, 09:48 PM

Crap. I don't want ANOTHER heart attack...
I've had 3. How many have you had? :D

colleyvillesooner

5/22/2006, 09:48 PM

Got 911 on speed dial...

Fouls will be a factor down the line for Dallas. Two guys out is big.

NormanPride

5/22/2006, 09:49 PM

I think my last count is at 2. And I'm a young guy... :O

Scott D

5/22/2006, 09:49 PM

I'll say this much...

We had a 20 point lead. In spite of what anyone says about the refs, you should not lose a 20 point lead ever.

:)

Scott D

5/22/2006, 09:50 PM

Got 911 on speed dial...

Fouls will be a factor down the line for Dallas. Two guys out is big.

oh come on....one of them is Van Horn...that's not a loss :P

Scott D

5/22/2006, 09:52 PM

ok now you have two players and a van horn fouled out :P

NormanPride

5/22/2006, 09:54 PM

Wouldn't this game have been better as the NBA finals? I think so.

NormanPride

5/22/2006, 10:01 PM

Again. Those who hit their shots in the end win. Well, there you go.

NormanPride

5/22/2006, 10:03 PM

As a Spurs fan, that was crap.

GrapevineSooner

5/22/2006, 10:11 PM

Spurs fans,

I feel the same way you guys probably did when you finally dethroned the Lakers in 2003.

No smack talk here. Just simple relief at finally beating our nemesis.

hurricane'bone

5/22/2006, 10:11 PM

*phew*

sanantoniosooner

5/22/2006, 10:13 PM

Congrats to Avery.

It took a Spur to take the team to the next level.

Tim missed layups when the team needed him most.

I hope Dallas wins it all inspite of some of the retards that root for them :D

Scott D

5/22/2006, 10:13 PM

Wife is clueless...she tells me she wants Dallas to win, then tells me that Dallas doesn't stand a chance against either the Suns or the Clippers...I just gave her the 'you are crazy' look, and told her it's the other way around.

GrapevineSooner

5/22/2006, 10:17 PM

sanantoniosooner

5/22/2006, 10:19 PM

Dallas can run with PHX.

hurricane'bone

5/22/2006, 10:19 PM

sanantoniosooner

5/22/2006, 10:20 PM

Duncan cost us the game.

When did he play for the Mavs?

NormanPride

5/22/2006, 10:21 PM

Guys, you're gonna be just fine. Keep hitting shots, keep defending well, and keep paying the refs.

;)

jk the sooner fan

5/22/2006, 10:25 PM

Dear San Antonio

SUCK IT

;)

sanantoniosooner

5/22/2006, 10:27 PM

Dear San Antonio

I just can stop you.

;)
.

jk the sooner fan

5/22/2006, 10:29 PM

cant stop you?

puhleeze, you had the benefits of twice the foul calls and still couldnt put us away on your home court........

defending champs.......pffftt......

NormanPride

5/22/2006, 10:32 PM

Dear San Antonio

Why can't I quit you?

;)

Fixed. :D

sanantoniosooner

5/22/2006, 10:32 PM

Perhaps it should have been "quit you".

I'm not good on queer cowboy trivia.

sanantoniosooner

5/22/2006, 10:35 PM

Perhaps it should have been "quit you".

I'm not good on queer cowboy trivia.
I promise NP a truce or I'd comment on his knowledge of said subject:D

BeetDigger

5/22/2006, 10:37 PM

Well, Phoenix might give us a few fits. Even though Nash would be coming off back to back series that went the full distance.

Not to say the one we just finished wasn't physically draining or anything.

I hope that it is the Clippers. They have a deep bench, have the inside/outside threat and have an MVP caliber player. I think that would be a great series to watch. Not sure that the Mavs vs. Suns will be as good. Suns seem to be running on total empty. Oh sure, they may win, but if they do, I just think that the Mavs dominate them.

BeetDigger

5/22/2006, 10:38 PM

Perhaps it should have been "quit you".

I'm not good on queer cowboy trivia.

Given the mood of the wife lately, it might not be a bad idea to study up on the subject. :texan: :D

sanantoniosooner

5/22/2006, 10:40 PM

Given the mood of the wife lately, it might not be a bad idea to study up on the subject. :texan: :D
You typed to lot of crap only to get negged now.;)

bri

5/22/2006, 10:44 PM

Dear San Antonio

SUCK IT

;)

Note to self...when I reform the Soonerfans.com DX, add jk.

:D

colleyvillesooner

5/22/2006, 11:14 PM

Dear San Antonio

SUCK IT

;)

heh

colleyvillesooner

5/22/2006, 11:16 PM

What a game.

Hats off to the Spurs. Best series I can remember. I've been waiting for this day for a long time. Feels good.

I think I'll leave the avatar. :D

GrapevineSooner

5/22/2006, 11:55 PM

And an ex-mav to cause you to lose. ;)
No bashing of Fin, here. He was terrific this series.

So much so that I'm wondering where the hell this Fin was last season for Dallas. And if this Fin had shown up last season, he'd probably still be a Maverick.

mrowl

5/23/2006, 05:49 AM

No bashing of Fin, here. He was terrific this series.

So much so that I'm wondering where the hell this Fin was last season for Dallas. And if this Fin had shown up last season, he'd probably still be a Maverick.

remember, Fin is in a contract year. What a tool.

Awesome series, enjoy the golf.

Bring on Phoenix. Game 1 should be interesting, how can Avery keep the guys from not having a meltdown?

mrowl

5/23/2006, 05:54 AM

http://espn-i.starwave.com/media/apphoto/fb118516-8a3f-4838-8d3b-b9d488aa66dc.jpg

mrowl

5/23/2006, 06:13 AM

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/3281/spursftw2bj.jpg

NormanPride

5/23/2006, 09:16 AM

Ugh. Manu's foul at the end of regulation goes down in my book of "Historical WTF? Moments"

Oh well. We played hard, played well, and were not embarassed. Good job, Mavs. Now go kick the crap out of everyone to make us look good. :D

mrowl

5/23/2006, 12:40 PM

The Avery Bunch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp4CIFfbJZU

NormanPride

5/23/2006, 03:02 PM

Had to. :D

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6120/dirkinchinashop3zd.jpg

colleyvillesooner

5/23/2006, 03:16 PM

Had To. :D

http://www.bobanddan.net/images/gonefishing.jpg

jk the sooner fan

5/23/2006, 03:37 PM

does anybody have the clip of Avery punching Josh Howard in the jewels when he was trying to grab Adrian Griffin at the end of the game?

the guys on the ticket said it was pretty funny

NormanPride

5/23/2006, 03:39 PM

Had To. :D

http://www.bobanddan.net/images/gonefishing.jpg

Niiice! YMSSR...

mrowl

5/23/2006, 03:49 PM

does anybody have the clip of Avery punching Josh Howard in the jewels when he was trying to grab Adrian Griffin at the end of the game?

the guys on the ticket said it was pretty funny

still looking for it.

mrowl

5/23/2006, 03:50 PM

nevermind, found it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUHIfOicCbU

LMAO! :D

colleyvillesooner

5/23/2006, 04:10 PM

nevermind, found it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUHIfOicCbU

LMAO! :D

Good thing his fist wasn't closed or that would have been a game suspension.

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi

5/23/2006, 04:20 PM

Good thing his fist wasn't closed or that would have been a game suspension.

and a felony

NormanPride

5/24/2006, 09:48 AM

So. Detroit = pwned?

Can't wait for the game tonight. With all the pressure off, I can now really enjoy the playoffs objectively.

Scott D

5/24/2006, 10:06 AM

So. Detroit = pwned?

Can't wait for the game tonight. With all the pressure off, I can now really enjoy the playoffs objectively.

nah...I figured last night one of two things would happen. Either Miami would look rested (and they did coming out hot), or Miami would look rusty. We dropped Game 1 of the Conference finals to them last year too.

colleyvillesooner

5/24/2006, 10:24 AM

nah...I figured last night one of two things would happen. Either Miami would look rested (and they did coming out hot), or Miami would look rusty. We dropped Game 1 of the Conference finals to them last year too.

You see the stat last night that 90% of the teams that win Game 1 of the Conference Final, win the series. You guys were in that 10% last year, are you this year?

Scott D

5/24/2006, 10:26 AM

never know....I hope we are. But, on the other hand Pat Riley sold what little of his soul remained to assemble a team that was built for no other purpose than to try and beat the Pistons in a best of 7 series.

colleyvillesooner

5/24/2006, 01:26 PM

nah...I figured last night one of two things would happen. Either Miami would look rested (and they did coming out hot), or Miami would look rusty. We dropped Game 1 of the Conference finals to them last year too.

psst, you won that game.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=250523014

;)

Scott D

5/24/2006, 01:30 PM

heh...I only really remember having to win games 6 and 7 to advance :P

now I think it's eerie that the games are being played on the same dates one year later.

Scott D

5/24/2006, 06:39 PM

You see the stat last night that 90% of the teams that win Game 1 of the Conference Final, win the series. You guys were in that 10% last year, are you this year?

oh it was 2004 against the Pacers I was thinking of in terms of losing Game 1 of the Conference Finals.

mrowl

5/24/2006, 07:52 PM

ready for Game 1.

http://bobanddan.net/forums/Smileys/default/beer.gif

mrowl

5/24/2006, 08:00 PM

looks like there may be a mavs letdown tonight...

BTW, phoenix is FAST.

Stanley1

5/24/2006, 10:44 PM

And that is what bad defense gets you.

colleyvillesooner

5/24/2006, 11:35 PM

Not a good way to start. Hope Howard is ok.

Can someone explain to me why the one guy Avery doesn't trust in the playoffs is inbounding the ball with .5 second left?

Oh, and Steve Nash, I hate you. With the fire of a thousand suns, I hate you.

GrapevineSooner

5/24/2006, 11:56 PM

Standard disclaimer: Dallas had a 9 point lead late and blew it. That's essentially why they lost this one.

With that out of the way...

Like Avery, I'm trying to figure out how Devin could blow by Steve Cash, have Cash grab the back of his jersey, and the foul somehow be on...Devin?

I don't buy into conspiracy theories. But the NBA could go a long way to ensuring these kind of theories don't have legs by not making such ridiculous foul calls down the stretch.

Of course, that may have been a makeup call for what should have been an obvious flagrant foul against Damp earlier in the second half when he pulled some Suns player down by the shoulder blades.

Oh well, I'd equate this win on the same level as our win over San Antone in 2003. Phoenix stole one in our house, but they still won't win the series.