Now this African activism I agree with

[Howzit]

Wonder if Bono is listening?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060425/en_afp/safricabritainafricaaidgeldof




Irish rocker-activist Geldof takes aim at corruption in Africa

JOHANNESBURG (AFP) - Billions of dollars in aid will achieve "zero" in Africa unless governments on the continent are serious about fighting corruption and poverty, Irish rocker and humanitarian Bob Geldof (http://search.news.yahoo.com/search/news/?p=Bob+Geldof) said.

The 54-year-old political activist, who will be performing in Johannesburg and Cape Town this week, said he saw "many, many optimistic signs and just as many crap signs" that African governments were cleaning up their act.

"The rich world can pour endless billions into the continent of Africa but none of this will work unless African governments are serious," Geldof told a news conference in Johannesburg.

"Corruption is a byproduct of poverty. We have corruption in France, Germany and Ireland. ... We are rich enough so that it doesn't kill us.
"In sub-Saharan Africa, it kills people. And it must stop," he said.
Nominated five times for a Nobel peace prize, Geldof singled out Benin, Mozambique, Tanzania and South Africa as countries that have earned "plus points" for their good governments.

Tony Blair (http://search.news.yahoo.com/search/news/?p=Tony+Blair)'s Commission for Africa, Geldof singled out as progress the Group of Eight's decision to cancel the debt owed by some of the poorest countries and double assistance by 2010.

But he added: "None of this works, none, zero, unless the governments of Africa are equally serious about trying to pull their people out of poverty."
The creator of Live 8, a series of concerts held worldwide last year that raised awareness about Africa's plight, will be performing for the first time in South Africa.

[crawfish]

Why do you hate the victim?

[Okla-homey]

When I was in staff college years ago, I had a guy named Maj. Reggie Moatshe in my seminar group from Botswana. Because Reggie was a cool guy, I became interested in the place. Its widely considered the best credit risk in sub-Saharan Africa. Stable, republican, civilian controlled gov't since independence in 1966. Strong respect for the rule of law. Real courts.

That said, they have an enormous AIDS/HIV problem, but they are aggressively dealing with it and may well turn it around. Methinks all the disfunctional African states could take lessons from Botswana.

They do have interesting anti-poaching laws. See, they understand their native wildlife is a big tourism draw and is critical to their economic well-being. Especially their elephant herds.

Thus, they have laws that allow the game wardens to shoot on sight anyone observed armed or in possession of elephant tusks on any of their several federally administered wildlife preserves. They even patrol their preserves by helicopter and will attack poachers by assault from the air. Before they had such laws, they were losing elephants to ivory poachers like crazy. Now, poaching has almost been eliminated.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/bc.html

[yermom]

seems a tad extreme... i'll bet PeTA loves them ;)

and AIDS/HIV is BAD in Africa in general, they have some ****ed up customs and ideas on hygeine/medical practices

will take a huge culture shift to beat AIDS over there

[BeetDigger]

Where are the Hollywood activists on all of this? You know, the one's who jump on every trendy and cool bandwagon, the one's who were out protesting apartied. I guess when it's not whitey doing the oppressing, it's just not worth the publicity.

[Howzit]

Not sure about the protesting apartheid part - never been a big fan of the whole institutioanlized racism thang myown self. But it is refreshing to hear a 'celebrity' (I know this is debatable but he did organize Live Aid) recognizing and speaking out to the fact that systemic corruption is a root of the problems in Africa.

As he says, all this money isn't going to do much good without addressing it.

[yermom]

yep, when they give out the food based on politics... or just sell it there are problems

[Scott D]

It’s dollar day in New Orleans,
It’s where water everywhere and baby’s dead in the stree (ee eets),
It’s enough to make you holler out,
Like where the **** is Sir Bono and his famous friends now,
Don’t get it twisted man I dig U2,
But if you aint about the ghetto, Then **** You Too,
Who care bout Rock N’ Roll when babies can’t eat food,
Listen homie that **** ain’t cool,

I just had to quote Mos Def's Katrina Klap for that one line. Just substitute Africa for New Orleans. :D

[dolemitesooner]

seems a tad extreme... i'll bet PeTA loves them ;)

and AIDS/HIV is BAD in Africa in general, they have some ****ed up customs and ideas on hygeine/medical practices

will take a huge culture shift to beat AIDS over there


That is not turn in the civalized parts of africa.

[Scott D]

Actually there are large areas of the continent that have little to no health care short of foreign doctors going over there to try and do something. Lots of areas with no running water as well.

[dolemitesooner]

Actually there are large areas of the continent that have little to no health care short of foreign doctors going over there to try and do something. Lots of areas with no running water as well.

Let them do there own thing. They got vodoo doctors and ****.

and running water ...**** who needs water? Give them beer

[Jeopardude]

Where are the Hollywood activists on all of this? You know, the one's who jump on every trendy and cool bandwagon, the one's who were out protesting apartied. I guess when it's not whitey doing the oppressing, it's just not worth the publicity.

I don't pay attention to celebs, but Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt were just over there for charity. Don Cheadle just did a documentary short about "Midnight's Children" in Uganda. Quick check shows George Clooney works with ONE (name, not number of) foundation, Salma Hayek's visited for HIV/AIDS prevention. That was found with one second's research.

You doth protest too much, methinks.

[dolemitesooner]

speaking of running water....I know a guy who has guniness on tap at his sink.....we could just flood that **** with lakes of coors light.

[jacru]

Why do you hate the victim?
what hate? victim of what? :confused:

way out in left field is right. :rolleyes:

[Harry Beanbag]

Africa is a disgrace to humankind in the 21st century.

[yermom]

That is not turn in the civalized parts of africa.

ok, maybe my generalization was a little broad, but i meant a LOT of Africa not all of it, i think it's mostly in the central and Southern countries

[Scott D]

Africa is a disgrace to humankind in the 21st century.

or maybe humankind is a disgrace to itself for a twisted value system.

[dolemitesooner]

Africa is a disgrace to humankind in the 21st century.
Lol. Your gandfathers made it what it is now.
Africa is still being raped by americans today. We can act like we care but you cant just throw money at problems like aids and brutal wars and make them go away. Yes money helps..but money is not everthing. Thats why I laugh at things like Liveaid and ****.

[yermom]

Americans are raping them? i think they are doing just fine by themselves

[Mjcpr]

Lol. Your gandfathers made it what it is now.
Africa is still being raped by americans today. We can act like we care but you cant just throw money at problems like aids and brutal wars and make them go away. Yes money helps..but money is not everthing. Thats why I laugh at things like Liveaid and ****.

We know life has been hard for you growing up a black man in America.

[dolemitesooner]

Americans are raping them? i think they are doing just fine by themselves
I am not taling littarle rape jackass.

I am talking wars that never end due to Conflict diamonds. Communication can change Quality of life and due to telecommunications monopolys communication does not exsit in many areas. America has been very Country specific in Africa and has not help Africa as a whole. America needs to come up with Sollutions and actions and use them not just throW money.

[yermom]

i can hear the Kanye in the background of this post

[Harry Beanbag]

or maybe humankind is a disgrace to itself for a twisted value system.


Meaning what? The rest of the planet should be like Africa?

[Harry Beanbag]

Lol. Your gandfathers made it what it is now.
Africa is still being raped by americans today. We can act like we care but you cant just throw money at problems like aids and brutal wars and make them go away. Yes money helps..but money is not everthing. Thats why I laugh at things like Liveaid and ****.


I'm not sure what you're getting at, but my family never owned slaves if that's it.

[dolemitesooner]

i can hear the Kanye in the background of this post
The only thing Knaye talks about is the diamonds. I studied alot on Africa in high school for Model un for 3 years.

I also work with a ton of guys from the congo who I am consitently agrueing with

[dolemitesooner]

I'm not sure what you're getting at, but my family never owned slaves if that's it.
Thats one part ...but not all of it ..if you are going to be SO about it ...I dont want to waste me breath. Just keep on keepin on being ignorant on the whole situtation which you dont seem to know much about.


By the way I love you harry I ain't got no beef wit you. I just get hawt under the collar about certain things

[Mjcpr]

...I dont want to waste me breath.

So which is it.......are you black or Irish?

:confused:

[dolemitesooner]

half Cacausion/ half latino from germany

[Scott D]

Meaning what? The rest of the planet should be like Africa?

More along the lines of how people are generally concerned with themselves and their immediate surroundings and those whom immediately surround them. Anything else that goes on while it may be unfortunate they consider to have no bearing on their lives therefore it's not anything they feel they should be concerned about.

It's a thing of if everyone looked more at everything as 'we' instead of 'me', and humanity before nationalism everyone would likely be in a much better position than they are in today. It's probably the one idea that the original star trek got right...well that and having the women wearing very very short skirts ;)

[Mjcpr]

half Cacausion/ half latino from germany

Those German Latinos have always been troublemakers.

[Widescreen]

Our former president explained all this.

http://snltranscripts.jt.org/92/pics/92hmcdonalds2.jpg


See, right now, we're sending in.. [ holds us McMuffin ] ..food.. [ puts McMuffin in front of Male Customer ] ..to Somalia.. but it's not getting to the people who need it because.. [ brings McMuffin back to himself ] ..it's being intercepted by the warlords.. [ chews McMuffin some more ] And it's not just us. It's other countries, too.. [ grabs a McNugget from another customer ] Your McNugget is aid from Great Britain.. [ takes it to other customer, then gibbles it down ] ..intercepted by warlords! [ grabs someone's Filet-o-Fish ] This man's Filet-o-Fish over here is relief from Italy.. [ pops it in his mouth ] ..warlords! And you can send all the food you want.. [ grabs different items ] ..a McDLT, hot apple pie.. it's just gonna end up with.. [ puts it all in his mouth ] ..the warlords! Now, with a broad-based international military force, we can make sure that the McRib sandwich.. [ grabs one and places it on someone's tray ] ..gets to the people who need it. [ picks it up and gobbles it anyway ] Can I get a Coke?

[yermom]

how exactly are Americans raping Africans again?

is it the US's job to build infrastructure in the whole world?

these places have much bigger problems than that

[Scott D]

I think doleo is more referring to the taking of natural resources for less than fair market value due to the low income nature of most of the locales from which the resources are gained.

[Harry Beanbag]

More along the lines of how people are generally concerned with themselves and their immediate surroundings and those whom immediately surround them. Anything else that goes on while it may be unfortunate they consider to have no bearing on their lives therefore it's not anything they feel they should be concerned about.

It's a thing of if everyone looked more at everything as 'we' instead of 'me', and humanity before nationalism everyone would likely be in a much better position than they are in today. It's probably the one idea that the original star trek got right...well that and having the women wearing very very short skirts ;)


I guess I just don't understand why 'we' have to look on Africa as being full of pitiful people who are unable to help themselves and must be looked after like children. That idea is offensive to me as a responsible human being. Thinking of Africa as a gigantic welfare state is sickening. Why can't the people or their leaders stand up out of the tribal middle ages and create even a halfway civilized society on their own? Even the countries who should have a head start on the others, like Nigeria with its oil and email scammers(;)), are a disaster.

It's just perplexing to me, and I'll be forever grateful that I was fortunate enough to be born in the U.S..

[dolemitesooner]

how exactly are Americans raping Africans again?

is it the US's job to build infrastructure in the whole world?

these places have much bigger problems than that

HMMM. I think that we as america's are the worlds police. Being as stable as we are I think the YES it is our job to help other contries or in this case a whole contenint build the infrastructure that they need. And it is our job to do it in the right way.

My first example I think you are talking about is the telecommincation companys. In many countires (one I know for sure bring the congo) America has give money to put these Infastructures in place for the betterment of the people of said counties. What is happen is is that Greddy *** Americans are puting their companys in place and absoring the "aid money given" for such things are not putting them to use in the right ways. These buiness owners have many connections to the same politicans who put them in place.

[dolemitesooner]

Why can't the people or their leaders stand up out of the tribal middle ages and create even a halfway civilized society on their own?



Because these guys are living the nice lifestyle. Not many of them care about the many poor in there area. They only care about themselves. and
http://images2.clinicaltools.com/images/tobaccofree/money.jpg

The same reason many africans were part of rounding up slaves for the white man to take back to america.

[sooneron]

Bob Geldof and the Boomtown Rats - I Don't Like Mondays

[Okla-homey]

Ever notice how the former British colonies tend to have turned out better both in the short term and over the long haul than the French, Belgian, Dutch and German colonies?

I've always believed it was mostly because the Brits insisted that the natives take part in the administration of the colony thru development of a civil service structure populated by natives. IOW, they said to the natives, "you are now British subjects" -- but stopped short of declaring them Britons. Therefore, the Crown reasoned, "as subjects of Her Majesty in the Crown colony, you shall learn to run this country by filling all the lesser bureaucratic posts, post office, public utilities, etc."

The French, Belgian, Dutch and German colonial masters said, "This land is now an extension of our homeland. You are now French, Belgian, Dutch or German." BUT, "since we don't let black folks run our country, we white guys shall administer this extension of our country the way we see fit using civil servants we'll bring over from Paris, Brussels, Amsterdam or Berlin."

That set up a system in which newly independent British colonies could administer themselves pretty well but the Francophone colonies were utterly unprepared to take over when the masters split.

[Howzit]

Ever notice how the former British colonies tend to have turned out better both in the short term and over the long haul than the French, Belgian, Dutch and German colonies?

I've always believed it was mostly because the Brits insisted that the natives take part in the administration of the colony thru development of a civil service structure populated by natives. IOW, they said to the natives, "you are now British subjects" -- but stopped short of declaring them Britons. Therefore, the Crown reasoned, "as subjects of Her Majesty in the Crown colony, you shall learn to run this country by filling all the lesser bureaucratic posts, post office, public utilities, etc."

The French, Belgian, Dutch and German colonial masters said, "This land is now an extension of our homeland. You are now French, Belgian, Dutch or German." BUT, "since we don't let black folks run our country, we white guys shall administer this extension of our country the way we see fit using civil servants we'll bring over from Paris, Brussels, Amsterdam or Berlin."

That set up a system in which newly independent British colonies could administer themselves pretty well but the Francophone colonies were utterly unprepared to take over when the masters split.

I have noticed that, and assumed it was the tea and crumpets.

[Scott D]

I guess I just don't understand why 'we' have to look on Africa as being full of pitiful people who are unable to help themselves and must be looked after like children. That idea is offensive to me as a responsible human being. Thinking of Africa as a gigantic welfare state is sickening. Why can't the people or their leaders stand up out of the tribal middle ages and create even a halfway civilized society on their own? Even the countries who should have a head start on the others, like Nigeria with its oil and email scammers(;)), are a disaster.

It's just perplexing to me, and I'll be forever grateful that I was fortunate enough to be born in the U.S..

Well I'm not saying to look at it from a perspective of being childlike and pitiful in that regard, however the earmarks of Colonialism have been very very slow to receed from the area. The countries taht get pointed out as being viewed as the most advanced, also had a very long history of being dominated by Europeans for centuries prior to today.

That being said, does it really seem like much of a strain on the world at large (notice I'm not saying only the US) to assist in building the proper infrastructure in these places in reference to such things as running water, irrigation, electricity, education? It needs to be a worldwide effort, and the effort should be something that benefits more than just the continent of Africa, but rather anywhere that these kinds of deficiencies in quality of life exist.

The big problem as Americans when we look at the problems of another nation especially one that seems to be impoverished and 'backwards' is that as a nation it's like we're say, a 3rd generation rich kid born into a ridiculously wealthy family, and trying to relate our experiences to a kid who was born via a midwife in a shack to a family in the mountains who has an outhouse about a mile away from their shack and draws their water out of a well and doesn't wear shoes until they are in their 30s.

[BeetDigger]

I don't pay attention to celebs, but Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt were just over there for charity. Don Cheadle just did a documentary short about "Midnight's Children" in Uganda. Quick check shows George Clooney works with ONE (name, not number of) foundation, Salma Hayek's visited for HIV/AIDS prevention. That was found with one second's research.

You doth protest too much, methinks.


No. I don't doubt that celebrities are focusing on issues dealing with Africa. Most of them are on the Aids bandwagon. What I am talking about is that 15 or so years ago (which may be reaching too far back for you) the cause du jour of the moment was apartheid. You know, boycott South Africa. I'm not saying it was necessarily wrong you know. But where is the push for all of the overthrow of the horrible governments that are still there? When race is involved, its time to get active it appears. But when it's not race but rather just corrupt government, then its not nearly as "worthy". Glad to Bob working on this (as he has done for many years). I'm just asking where are all the anti-apartheid folks from Hollywood and the liberal colleges? I'd hate to think it was just, you know, fashion, but I'm afraid it was.

[Widescreen]

...a kid who was born via a midwife in a shack to a family in the mountains who has an outhouse about a mile away from their shack and draws their water out of a well and doesn't wear shoes until they are in their 30s.
Who of us can't relate to that? It's like you were stalking me as a child.

[yermom]

HMMM. I think that we as america's are the worlds police. Being as stable as we are I think the YES it is our job to help other contries or in this case a whole contenint build the infrastructure that they need. And it is our job to do it in the right way.

My first example I think you are talking about is the telecommincation companys. In many countires (one I know for sure bring the congo) America has give money to put these Infastructures in place for the betterment of the people of said counties. What is happen is is that Greddy *** Americans are puting their companys in place and absoring the "aid money given" for such things are not putting them to use in the right ways. These buiness owners have many connections to the same politicans who put them in place.

and you call yourself a Rebublican...

[Jeopardude]

No. I don't doubt that celebrities are focusing on issues dealing with Africa. Most of them are on the Aids bandwagon. What I am talking about is that 15 or so years ago (which may be reaching too far back for you) the cause du jour of the moment was apartheid. You know, boycott South Africa. I'm not saying it was necessarily wrong you know. But where is the push for all of the overthrow of the horrible governments that are still there? When race is involved, its time to get active it appears. But when it's not race but rather just corrupt government, then its not nearly as "worthy". Glad to Bob working on this (as he has done for many years). I'm just asking where are all the anti-apartheid folks from Hollywood and the liberal colleges? I'd hate to think it was just, you know, fashion, but I'm afraid it was.

Point taken. I would say that apartheid probably seemed more relevant and tangible to our society (segregation by law ending in 50s after our own civil rights struggle) and beating it more achievable than the corruption of third world governments. And I think bagging on celebrities for which issues they're trumpeting inflates their already grotesque self-worth.

[Harry Beanbag]

Who of us can't relate to that? It's like you were stalking me as a child.


No kidding. Doesn't he know this board is awash in hillbillies? ;)

[Harry Beanbag]

Well I'm not saying to look at it from a perspective of being childlike and pitiful in that regard, however the earmarks of Colonialism have been very very slow to receed from the area. The countries taht get pointed out as being viewed as the most advanced, also had a very long history of being dominated by Europeans for centuries prior to today.

That being said, does it really seem like much of a strain on the world at large (notice I'm not saying only the US) to assist in building the proper infrastructure in these places in reference to such things as running water, irrigation, electricity, education? It needs to be a worldwide effort, and the effort should be something that benefits more than just the continent of Africa, but rather anywhere that these kinds of deficiencies in quality of life exist.

The cost of what you are suggesting is uncalculable with little to no benefit for the rest of the world. If Africans were running around to other continents and flying airplanes into buildings, blowing up restaurants, or sat on top of 3/4's of the planet's energy supply, then the clamor to do something would probably be greater.

There is also no political benefit to helping Africa, to anyone really. And as sad as it may be, I think race probably has quite a bit to do with it as well.




The big problem as Americans when we look at the problems of another nation especially one that seems to be impoverished and 'backwards' is that as a nation it's like we're say, a 3rd generation rich kid born into a ridiculously wealthy family, and trying to relate our experiences to a kid who was born via a midwife in a shack to a family in the mountains who has an outhouse about a mile away from their shack and draws their water out of a well and doesn't wear shoes until they are in their 30s.

I don't think that view is limited only to Americans in this instance. And I don't really fault it anyway. Earth ain't Utopia.

[BeetDigger]

And I think bagging on celebrities for which issues they're trumpeting inflates their already grotesque self-worth.


Probably so. Not that they listen to me, or any other non-celelbrity, anyway.

[Scott D]

The cost of what you are suggesting is uncalculable with little to no benefit for the rest of the world. If Africans were running around to other continents and flying airplanes into buildings, blowing up restaurants, or sat on top of 3/4's of the planet's energy supply, then the clamor to do something would probably be greater.

There is also no political benefit to helping Africa, to anyone really. And as sad as it may be, I think race probably has quite a bit to do with it as well.

I don't think that view is limited only to Americans in this instance. And I don't really fault it anyway. Earth ain't Utopia.

Oh I would concur that it's unlikely to happen, however if people were into making it happen the cost wouldn't matter.

I also think Homey really hit the nail on the head with his post in terms of how the Colonialism of major portions of Africa really screwed with things there.

And the world view is probably nearly as backwards now as it was in the 1700s in regards to Africa.

[Okla-homey]

Oh I would concur that it's unlikely to happen, however if people were into making it happen the cost wouldn't matter.

I also think Homey really hit the nail on the head with his post in terms of how the Colonialism of major portions of Africa really screwed with things there.

And the world view is probably nearly as backwards now as it was in the 1700s in regards to Africa.

The thing is, karma is a beyotch. Those European colonial powers who used the French model of colonial administration made the natives of their colonial possessions citizens of the mother country. That meant a guy in French Guyana, French Morocco, Ivory Coast, etc. was legally just as French as a guy born in Paris.

When those colonies eventually gained independence and the natives were incapable of running the country because the colonial master hadn't allowed them an opportunity to learn, those former colonists who had a few francs to book passage could head to France and could not be denied entry because they were FRENCH. The really crappy part is the best and brightest were the ones who bailed.

Those people's kids are the ones raising hell in France right now because the white French crap all over them.

It would be kinda amusing if it were'nt such a tragedy.

The Brits, OTOH, left their colonies with a reasonable chance at success in running their newly independent nations and since those folks were'nt Britons but merely British subjects, the ones who might have wanted to split to Britian could be denied residency in the UK. That meant the best and the brightest couldn't bail to the UK and instead, they nutted-up and committed to making their new nation function.

Its more complicated than that, but its basically the reason Africa is a phenomenally f-ed up continent.

This is one situation where its fair to blame the non-English whitey for the ginormous cluster-fark that is Sub-Saharan Africa.

Just saying.