Enough Already!

[Crimsontothecore]

I'm fed up with this "The sky is falling" attitude because some recruits want to back out. I guess I didn't realize the OU b-ball program was so fragile that the entire future hinged on Scotty Reynolds and this recruiting class. If they don't want to be here..let them go. Be finished with it. I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that OU will still have mens b-ball in five years even if these "Saviors" go elsewhere. Look at it this way, even if Sampson had stayed, Reynolds most likely would leave after one season anyway. That last statement is based on Kelvin's track record with McDonald's All-Americans. Besides, Sampson was successful without a bench full of blue-chippers. Who's to say Capel won't do the same...or better? I know this will come as a shock to some of you, but there are still lots of capable and talented players out there who would be thrilled to come to OU and play for our new coach. It's not like these scholarships can't be filled with good players.

[OUGreg723]

I agree with you on most of this. Except for the part about Scottie leaving. He wouldnt have left. I know there wasnt a good track record, but Scottie loved Kelvin. Scottie also is alot different type player and person than the previous AA's we've had around here. He's a clean cut kid, and an extremely hard worker. He wouldnt have had the off the court problems our AA's have had in the past. I dont see him leaving the program he goes to. He is very careful in making his decisions.

[Scott D]

I'm fed up with this "The sky is falling" attitude because some recruits want to back out. I guess I didn't realize the OU b-ball program was so fragile that the entire future hinged on Scotty Reynolds and this recruiting class. If they don't want to be here..let them go. Be finished with it. I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that OU will still have mens b-ball in five years even if these "Saviors" go elsewhere. Look at it this way, even if Sampson had stayed, Reynolds most likely would leave after one season anyway. That last statement is based on Kelvin's track record with McDonald's All-Americans. Besides, Sampson was successful without a bench full of blue-chippers. Who's to say Capel won't do the same...or better? I know this will come as a shock to some of you, but there are still lots of capable and talented players out there who would be thrilled to come to OU and play for our new coach. It's not like these scholarships can't be filled with good players.

you do realize that most of the good players already agreed to scholarships with other school earlier in the year right? At this stage you are in essence talking about losing an entire season of recruiting at this stage in the game.

[birddog]

I'm fed up with this "The sky is falling" attitude because some recruits want to back out. I guess I didn't realize the OU b-ball program was so fragile that the entire future hinged on Scotty Reynolds and this recruiting class. If they don't want to be here..let them go. Be finished with it. I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that OU will still have mens b-ball in five years even if these "Saviors" go elsewhere. Look at it this way, even if Sampson had stayed, Reynolds most likely would leave after one season anyway. That last statement is based on Kelvin's track record with McDonald's All-Americans. Besides, Sampson was successful without a bench full of blue-chippers. Who's to say Capel won't do the same...or better? I know this will come as a shock to some of you, but there are still lots of capable and talented players out there who would be thrilled to come to OU and play for our new coach. It's not like these scholarships can't be filled with good players.
I agree with you about them leaving a year or two down the line if KS was still here. some jerk-hole negged me and didn't have the tools in the tool bag to let me know who it was. KS could get talent and then would proceed to read a handbook on how to utilize talent. We'll see what capel can do. we are a top notch big 12 program and we should give capel a few years to develop talent. if any of you saw vcu play at all, some of those dudes can actually ball. i think that says alot for what capel can do when he has a few years with players. there's no way those guys he was coaching were near as talented as the players he can bring in to the sooner program. sure, it's disappointing some of these guys wanna bail on us, let's just look forward to what he can do for us. we've gotta a helluva good year of football ahead of us before we switch our attention to a new face to our bball program. damn it's good to be a sooner.

[poke4christ]

Hey Crimson,

Good to see you again. (assuming you are the same person) we mis you over on the bedlam boards on OP.com. We don't have many sooners over there now. Just OUGuru.

As for the current discussion, I think OU will be alright, but it might take them a few years with hit this has done. It might even screw up Capel for his career. If he can't overcome this (make it to the tourney) in the next 3 years, he is most likely done. I wasn't a big fan of the hire from the beginning, but we'll just have to wait and see how he does. He shows confidence, and that a definite plus.

Zach

[oumartin]

hmm, i like the post about all the good recruits being signed. wouldn't that mean most big time programs have used their scholarships leaving scottie, and damion probably looking at programs no better than OU's..

To say scottie is not of the same mold as the former big recruits that played for sampson let me say this.
Scottie is the one that claimed he would honor his letter then backed out the next week.

[runner1182]

scout.com wrote here "Darrell Arthur Profile

Darrell Arthur, one of the top unsigned players in the senior class, will take a visit this weekend to LSU and it appears as though the Tigers, who have sold "Slim Shady" on being the next Tyrus Thomas, is leaning towards committing to John Brady's program.
``They're probably the perfect fit," said Arthur, who said he is also still considering Kansas, Oklahoma and Baylor."
so oklahoma is somewhat still in the mix and we have scholarships to offer and practice against courtny paris if he wanted

[Crimsontothecore]

Hey Crimson,

Good to see you again. (assuming you are the same person) we mis you over on the bedlam boards on OP.com. We don't have many sooners over there now. Just OUGuru.

As for the current discussion, I think OU will be alright, but it might take them a few years with hit this has done. It might even screw up Capel for his career. If he can't overcome this (make it to the tourney) in the next 3 years, he is most likely done. I wasn't a big fan of the hire from the beginning, but we'll just have to wait and see how he does. He shows confidence, and that a definite plus.

Zach
Hey sis! (i'm joking). yeah, it's me. I guess I was too vocal about drunk drivers over at OP and I got banned for life. I think i'll be ok though.

[Crimsontothecore]

hmm, i like the post about all the good recruits being signed. wouldn't that mean most big time programs have used their scholarships leaving scottie, and damion probably looking at programs no better than OU's..

To say scottie is not of the same mold as the former big recruits that played for sampson let me say this.
Scottie is the one that claimed he would honor his letter then backed out the next week.
I agree. It's also a myth that "All the players worth having have already committed to other schools". It's absurd to believe that every decent high school player has a scholarship in hand right now. Am I saying that there are lots of "Scotty Reynolds" still left? Of course not. But there are many good players who simply lack the hype. If you look back through history, You'll find that there have been many college All-Americans who were unheralded recruits out of high school. You'll likewise find tons of players who never lived up to their reputations when they played at the college level. Capel and his staff will simply have to look a little harder to find the good players still out there.

[Stoop Dawg]

I'm fed up with this "The sky is falling" attitude because some recruits want to back out. I guess I didn't realize the OU b-ball program was so fragile that the entire future hinged on Scotty Reynolds and this recruiting class. If they don't want to be here..let them go. Be finished with it. I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that OU will still have mens b-ball in five years even if these "Saviors" go elsewhere.

How many players that actually stood on the court this year will be there next year? The coach? The recruits? Yep, pretty much the whole team is gone. Maybe they'll all be replaced with something better. Maybe.


Look at it this way, even if Sampson had stayed, Reynolds most likely would leave after one season anyway. That last statement is based on Kelvin's track record with McDonald's All-Americans. Besides, Sampson was successful without a bench full of blue-chippers.

Dude, Kelvin's gone. Let it go.


there are still lots of capable and talented players out there who would be thrilled to come to OU and play for our new coach. It's not like these scholarships can't be filled with good players.

Let's hope we get some.

[Crimsontothecore]

Dude, Kelvin's gone. Let it go.



.
I let it go weeks ago. I'm just recognizing the historical fact that Kelvin NEVER kept a McDonalds AA on campus for more than one season. It may bode well for the future, I'll bet that the blue-chippers Capel recruits will stay.

[poke4christ]

I let it go weeks ago. I'm just recognizing the historical fact that Kelvin NEVER kept a McDonalds AA on campus for more than one season. It may bode well for the future, I'll bet that the blue-chippers Capel recruits will stay.

If he can recruit the blue-chippers. Getting a blue chip is a big deal for anybody besides the big dogs like duke and NC. If OU goes into the tubes next season, how hard will it be to get those guys? Unproven coach, bad season, football school, ect. I've said it before (just not here) and I'll say it again. OU fans don't know how good they had it with Kelvin. There is a reason he got the Idiana job, and that's because he did very well with the situation he was presented with. I'm not saying Capel won't succeed, I'm just saying that the odds are stacked against him right now.

Zach

[Stoop Dawg]

I've said it before (just not here) and I'll say it again. OU fans don't know how good they had it with Kelvin.

Some of us do.

[Crimsontothecore]

I've said it before (just not here) and I'll say it again. OU fans don't know how good they had it with Kelvin.

Zach
Every time I see a statement like this, It seems to insinuate Sampson was "run off" by critical fans. His leaving had nothing to do with the criticism, he left for what is considered to be one of the top 5 jobs in the nation....period. Indiana is a Basketball school, and Kelvin's a basketball coach..enough said. He would be just as gone had OU made it to the final four and fans were singing his praises. He was a good coach, not great, but good. Is he irreplaceable? Not by any means. While it's obvious OU b-ball may face some down time next year, I choose to be optimistic about the future. There's really no reason to not be. The situation with the current recruits backing out has nothing to do with Capel's ability as a coach or a recruiter. This situation is out of his control.

[poke4christ]

Every time I see a statement like this, It seems to insinuate Sampson was "run off" by critical fans. His leaving had nothing to do with the criticism, he left for what is considered to be one of the top 5 jobs in the nation....period. Indiana is a Basketball school, and Kelvin's a basketball coach..enough said. He would be just as gone had OU made it to the final four and fans were singing his praises. He was a good coach, not great, but good. Is he irreplaceable? Not by any means. While it's obvious OU b-ball may face some down time next year, I choose to be optimistic about the future. There's really no reason to not be. The situation with the current recruits backing out has nothing to do with Capel's ability as a coach or a recruiter. This situation is out of his control.

I didn't mean to insinuate that. Sorry if I did. However, I have to say that I don't think OU is a top 25 program (overall) in basketball. I would place them around 35-40.

That being said, I am not an OSU fan who wants OU to suck. I want them to be good and I want the basketball rivalry to be strong. I just want OSU to always win :D .

Zach

[Crimsontothecore]

I didn't mean to insinuate that. Sorry if I did. However, I have to say that I don't think OU is a top 25 program (overall) in basketball. I would place them around 35-40.

That being said, I am not an OSU fan who wants OU to suck. I want them to be good and I want the basketball rivalry to be strong. I just want OSU to always win :D .

Zach
OU not a top-25 B-ball program? Maybe not throughout their history, but definitely during the Tubbs and Sampson tenures over the last 25 years. I don't think it's realistic to expect OU to be mentioned in the same breath as Duke, Indiana or North Carolina but I think it's very reasonable to see them as a consistent top-25 (or maybe 20) team. 35-40? Please! :eddie:

[poke4christ]

OU not a top-25 B-ball program? Maybe not throughout their history, but definitely during the Tubbs and Sampson tenures over the last 25 years. I don't think it's realistic to expect OU to be mentioned in the same breath as Duke, Indiana or North Carolina but I think it's very reasonable to see them as a consistent top-25 (or maybe 20) team. 35-40? Please! :eddie:

I think I'm just gonna let this one stay right where it is. Let's just say we disagree.

Zach

[SleestakSooner]

The fact is, since the inception of the Big XII, OU has been one of the best teams in basketball and has definately had as good if not better track record than OSU during that time span.

Kelvin left OU because INDIANA came calling. Would he have been run out of here after subjecting OU to NCAA sanctions? Good possibility. But bottom line, until we know what, if any, those sanctions will be we can't blame that dark cloud alone as the sole reason for his departure or for the recruit's waffling.

It's all just bad timing for OU but as coach Caple has said, what's meant to be will be. He has the reigns now and until he shows otherwise I will give him all the support he deserves as the OU head coach!

At least he hasn't committed any felonies.:eddie:

[poke4christ]

What I was posting about was the program as a whole. That has a to do with more than just a win loss record. Do I think OU has been good? Yes. In fact, I think that Kelvin overachieved in the situation he was in. Then when OU went looking for a new coach, I knew they would have trouble. None of us know what Capel is Capable of, but he wasn't even on the long list of possibles. Capel could do just as well as kelvin did (or better), but he obviously wasn't the first choice for the job. I think that is the telling aspect of how this isn't actually a top 25 program. It's still a good program, but not an elite one.

Guess I didn't really leave it alone. Oh, well.

Zach

[birddog]

Greg??? Have you talked to scottie? have we definitely lost him at this point? it would be nice to know where we stand with all our recruits. i know kelvin recruited these guys but it seems like they would relish the opportunity to ALL come in and turn our team into a powerhouse. they would all be able to say they built something special at ou and sheet, who knows, maybe even win a national championship.

[birddog]

What I was posting about was the program as a whole. That has a to do with more than just a win loss record. Do I think OU has been good? Yes. In fact, I think that Kelvin overachieved in the situation he was in. Then when OU went looking for a new coach, I knew they would have trouble. None of us know what Capel is Capable of, but he wasn't even on the long list of possibles. Capel could do just as well as kelvin did (or better), but he obviously wasn't the first choice for the job. I think that is the telling aspect of how this isn't actually a top 25 program. It's still a good program, but not an elite one.

Guess I didn't really leave it alone. Oh, well.

Zach
we ARE a top 25 program. you're crazy if you don't think that.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I didn't mean to insinuate that. Sorry if I did. However, I have to say that I don't think OU is a top 25 program (overall) in basketball. I would place them around 35-40.

That being said, I am not an OSU fan who wants OU to suck. I want them to be good and I want the basketball rivalry to be strong. I just want OSU to always win :D .

Zach

list the schools in front of us (UTEP, texas, and san francisco had better not make the list).

[C&CDean]

Like I said a while back, all you haters are gonna be missing Kelvin real, REAL bad here in a little while.

[poke4christ]

Like I said a while back, all you haters are gonna be missing Kelvin real, REAL bad here in a little while.

got to agree.

Zach

[Crimsontothecore]

Like I said a while back, all you haters are gonna be missing Kelvin real, REAL bad here in a little while.
There's always someone throwing out a statement like this. What about the people who LOVED Kelvin? Why don't you tell them that if they think their hearts are broken now, they should just wait till the fall when they will really, really, REALLY be crying? I just don't get why there's this finger pointing and "See there?" attitude. Sampson wasn't persuaded to leave because of the "Haters" any more than he was inclined to stay because of his supporters. Here's a statement to Kelvin: If you think OU fans were critical, just wait a little while.

[GDC]

Like I said a while back, all you haters are gonna be missing Kelvin real, REAL bad here in a little while.

I agree.:kelvin:

[poke4christ]

There's always someone throwing out a statement like this. What about the people who LOVED Kelvin? Why don't you tell them that if they think their hearts are broken now, they should just wait till the fall when they will really, really, REALLY be crying? I just don't get why there's this finger pointing and "See there?" attitude. Sampson wasn't persuaded to leave because of the "Haters" any more than he was inclined to stay because of his supporters. Here's a statement to Kelvin: If you think OU fans were critical, just wait a little while.

Do I think it was the primary factor in his leaving? Absolutly not, but you got to admit that it was probably a factor. And I'm not just talking about "Haters". I'm talking about a lack of overall support. Heck, the Women's team got more support this year than Kelvin's team did, and this OU team was in the top25 for most of the year.

Zach

[Crimsontothecore]

Do I think it was the primary factor in his leaving? Absolutly not, but you got to admit that it was probably a factor. And I'm not just talking about "Haters". I'm talking about a lack of overall support. Heck, the Women's team got more support this year than Kelvin's team did, and this OU team was in the top25 for most of the year.

Zach
Let's make one thing clear, There was a lack of attendance, not a lack of support. Every seat was paid for, problem is, Too many people didn't show up for the games. Yes, I agree that showing up is a form of support but from a financial standpoint, the b-ball program was very much supported. I also know that the athletic department is trying to address the attendance issue so that those empty, paid-for seats are available for those who want to go to the games. I still don't think any of that had anything to do with Sampson leaving. Why is it so hard for people to believe that IU was a job offer he wouldn't have turned down under any circumstances?

[Stoop Dawg]

Why is it so hard for people to believe that IU was a job offer he wouldn't have turned down under any circumstances?

Why is it so hard for some people to understand that being disappointed that KS left has nothing to do with WHY he left?

I also don't understand why people respond to posts that clearly weren't meant for them. If you're not a "hater" then C&CD wasn't talking about you.

These aren't advanced concepts.

[poke4christ]

Let's make one thing clear, There was a lack of attendance, not a lack of support. Every seat was paid for, problem is, Too many people didn't show up for the games. Yes, I agree that showing up is a form of support but from a financial standpoint, the b-ball program was very much supported. I also know that the athletic department is trying to address the attendance issue so that those empty, paid-for seats are available for those who want to go to the games. I still don't think any of that had anything to do with Sampson leaving. Why is it so hard for people to believe that IU was a job offer he wouldn't have turned down under any circumstances?

The reason that every seat is paid for is because it is a requirement for getting good football seats. Many of the seats are bought to improve their position for football tickets. Then they don't show up because they don't care. Why does Joe C. do that? To get the tickets sold. I've heard some say that this might be a good idea for OSU except in reverse (to get good basketball tickets you must buy football tickets). I would agree with them. I think that would help our football ticket sales. As for what you mentioned about making paid for seats available, I think that's a great idea. OSU should implement that too.

Zach

edit: I was thinking about this a little bit more. The ticket buying requiremtent might improve ticket sales, but it might also hurt attendance. With this, there might be less people who really want to go that are ablet to get tickets.

[okienole3]

Hey Zach,

Will you do two things for us?

1. Name the 25-30 teams that are an overall better basketball school than OU.

2. Go back to the poke board.

[poke4christ]

Hey Zach,

Will you do two things for us?

1. Name the 25-30 teams that are an overall better basketball school than OU.

2. Go back to the poke board.

Do you guys just want sunshine pumpers? Is that the deal? I know I'm a little biased agains OU, but I try to set that aside when I look at their sports. Most of the time I end up being right. I was right about AP struggling last year because of the o-line, I was right about OU having trouble getting a coach. Oh, and I hope I'm not right about AP now, because I think that with the addition of an experienced line and a good passing game, he has a good shot at the heisman this year.

Finally, I'm not going to take a couple hours out of my life to try to rank the basketball programs in the NCAA. Sorry.

Zach

[jdsooner]

Like I said a while back, all you haters are gonna be missing Kelvin real, REAL bad here in a little while.

Right. I really miss that CHEATER/NCAA CHOKER! NOT!!

I already like Capel's style and hopefully we have a guy who will get it done the right way.

[poke4christ]

Oh, and Crimson. My last post was not reffering to you. I think we're having a good conversation here.

Zach

[MojoRisen]

Every time I see a statement like this, It seems to insinuate Sampson was "run off" by critical fans. His leaving had nothing to do with the criticism, he left for what is considered to be one of the top 5 jobs in the nation....period. Indiana is a Basketball school, and Kelvin's a basketball coach..enough said. He would be just as gone had OU made it to the final four and fans were singing his praises. He was a good coach, not great, but good. Is he irreplaceable? Not by any means. While it's obvious OU b-ball may face some down time next year, I choose to be optimistic about the future. There's really no reason to not be. The situation with the current recruits backing out has nothing to do with Capel's ability as a coach or a recruiter. This situation is out of his control.

Clearly- he got us in trouble and when you put it up on a chalk board- he had power to do what he wanted to do- he chose to leave just after he said he would retire with OU- clearly this was a negoitiation to me.

Capel is the new coach- some recruits may stay or they may go- I am of the opinion that Jeff will be an excellent recruiter and coach- and things will be fine for the long run- not the same old **** year in year out-

Good luck to Sampson and his decision to leave was entirely his- critical fans don't pay him 10 million dollars.

[okienole3]

Do you guys just want sunshine pumpers? Is that the deal? I know I'm a little biased agains OU, but I try to set that aside when I look at their sports. Most of the time I end up being right. I was right about AP struggling last year because of the o-line, I was right about OU having trouble getting a coach. Oh, and I hope I'm not right about AP now, because I think that with the addition of an experienced line and a good passing game, he has a good shot at the heisman this year.

Finally, I'm not going to take a couple hours out of my life to try to rank the basketball programs in the NCAA. Sorry.

Zach


I don't want sunshine pumpers and I think anyone that reads this board will tell you that I am far from a sunshine pumper. I don't care if you are right or wrong about anything. I just want you to back up your statement. You said it, so back it up.

[okienole3]

Oh and what does Antonio Perkins have to do with anything?

[Stoop Dawg]

Finally, I'm not going to take a couple hours out of my life to try to rank the basketball programs in the NCAA. Sorry.

Zach

You're the one that said OU was 30-40. Evidently you've already ranked them. We just want you to share, that's all.

[Stoop Dawg]

Most of the time I end up being right. I was right about AP struggling last year because of the o-line, I was right about OU having trouble getting a coach. Oh, and I hope I'm not right about AP now, because I think that with the addition of an experienced line and a good passing game, he has a good shot at the heisman this year.

Where is this "experienced line" coming from? We graduated pretty much everyone from the o-line last year.

[Rock Hard Corn Frog]

Finally, I'm not going to take a couple hours out of my life to try to rank the basketball programs in the NCAA. Sorry.

Zach

I don't know that it would take that long but I'll give you list of programs that I think it is pretty safe to rate above OU all-time.

Kentucky
UCLA
North Carolina
Duke
Indiana
Kansas
Louisville
UConn
Cincy
Syracuse
Arkansas
Ohio St
Georgetown
Michigan St
Arizona
Illinois
NC State

I think those 17 you couldn't argue are higher rated programs

Utah
St Johns
Villanova
Marquette

Those 4 I'd probably concede as well

After that I'll compare what OU has done with any other program, especially in the last 25 years and please don't try to convince me that San Francisco,CCNY,Loyola or Holy Cross are higher ranked programs because they won 1-2 titles over 50 years ago. That same logic would mean that Princeton,Yale, Harvard, Cornell,Dartmouth, Lafayette and Penn all have superior football programs to OSU.

[okienole3]

I would take issue with Cincy and Utah.

[Rock Hard Corn Frog]

I would take issue with Cincy and Utah.

Possibly. Of course I rated those 2 programs ahead of OU. We are somewhere in that 20-25 range. Not 35-40.

[Crimsontothecore]

Oh, and Crimson. My last post was not reffering to you. I think we're having a good conversation here.

Zach
No offense taken, But after thinking about it, I would rather be in the category of "Sunshine Pumper" as opposed to the people who are digging a fresh grave for the OU B-ball program.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

After that I'll compare what OU has done with any other program, especially in the last 25 years and please don't try to convince me that San Francisco,CCNY,Loyola or Holy Cross are higher ranked programs because they won 1-2 titles over 50 years ago.

the irony of this is killing me

[william_brasky]

Like I said a while back, all you haters are gonna be missing Kelvin real, REAL bad here in a little while.

Don't tell me how I'm going to feel. :twinkies:

[Landthief 1972]

Dude, Kelvin's gone. Let it go.

Yeah, too bad he didn't take his NCAA infractions with him. :kelvin: :chicken:

[stoopified]

Hmm,an OSU fan saying OU is not top 25 because Capil is not a name coach?What does that say about Drunk Jr. taking over for Drunk sr?I don 't believe Sean has any Ws to his name.