Reggie Bush under investigation by Pac-10? [Archive]

View Full Version : Reggie Bush under investigation by Pac-10?

usmc-sooner

4/23/2006, 12:23 PM

is investigating us for phone calls? This kinda stuff gets my blood boiling. Nothing will happen to the trojans.

The NCAA is still ticked at OU over us suing them.

Keyser

4/23/2006, 12:23 PM

Interesting....

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AmXJhDDKHtN6zx43NVPDjB5DubYF?slug=cr-bush042306&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Days before Bush is expected to be the No. 1 pick in the NFL draft, unanswered questions about the residence and how his mother, stepfather and brother came to live in it within the last year have prompted the University of Southern California to refer the matter to the Pacific-10 Conference for an investigation.

usmc-sooner

4/23/2006, 12:24 PM

SPRING VALLEY, Calif. – In this sprawling hilltop community with a breathtaking view of Sweetwater Lake, it was no secret who lived in the 3,000-square-foot house at the corner of Apple Street and Luther Avenue.

That home, residents would tell you, was where Reggie Bush's family lived.

That is, until this weekend, when the family abruptly packed up and vacated the residence – less than 24 hours after Yahoo! Sports approached Bush's mother about information linking the property to Michael Michaels, a man who is alleged to have tried to play a role in steering Bush toward an agent and who also has ties to a sports marketing company.

Days before Bush is expected to be the No. 1 pick in the NFL draft, unanswered questions about the residence and how his mother, stepfather and brother came to live in it within the last year have prompted the University of Southern California to refer the matter to the Pacific-10 Conference for an investigation.

NCAA statutes prohibit student-athletes or their families from receiving extra benefits from professional sports agents, marketing companies or their representatives. A breach of these statutes could result in an athlete being ruled ineligible, and games in which they played could be forfeited.

ADVERTISEMENT

USC finished 12-1 last season, its 35-game winning streak and national championship bid both ending with a loss in the Rose Bowl to Texas. Bush, a junior running back, won the Heisman Trophy and elected to skip his senior season and turn pro in January.

In response to reporters' questions about the matter late last week, USC athletic department officials said they would look into it.

"Rather than jumping to conclusions, we need to determine the facts before commenting on this report," Trojans athletic director Mike Garrett said in a statement released by the school on Friday. "We have asked the Pac-10 to look into this."

State records show the Apple Street home was built in late 2004 and early 2005, then purchased by Michaels on March 29, 2005 for $757,500. Around that time, neighbors say Bush's family moved in. Whether they had visited the house while it was being built is unknown, but there is an inscription in one of the cement slabs in the driveway reading "The Griffins '05."

Michaels is the only person who has been listed on the deed to the home.

Bush's mother, Denise Griffin, was approached in the driveway of the house on Thursday, but declined to comment.

"I have absolutely nothing to say," Griffin said when asked about ownership of the property, which is where Bush's mother, stepfather LaMar and brother Jovan lived during USC's 2005 season.

Before moving to the house on Apple Lane, Bush's family was listed as living in an apartment elsewhere in Spring Valley, a community located about 13 miles east of San Diego.

At some point after Bush's family moved into the residence, Michaels and an associate named Lloyd Lake are said to have contacted San Diego-based sports agent David Caravantes and offered to facilitate Bush's recruitment. A source with intimate knowledge of the meeting said it took place during the 2005 college football season and that Michaels was looking for a local agent to handle the contract negotiations for players he intended to sign to his marketing firm.

Michaels and Lake told Caravantes they were planning to start a sports marketing agency with Bush as their anchor client. It was also during this meeting that Michaels and Lake mentioned the potential name of the agency: New Era Sports & Entertainment.

The pitch to Caravantes was said to have been simple: He would be Bush's agent and Michaels' marketing creation would handle the promotion of the USC star. At some point after pitching this idea, Michaels informed Caravantes that Bush's family was living in a home Michaels owned. Caravantes isn't believed to have met with Bush and was never considered to be in the mix before the USC star hired Reebok adviser Mike Ornstein and agent Joel Segal of Worldwide Football Inc. as his representatives.

Repeated attempts to reach Segal and Bush were unsuccessful.

While it's unclear what official role Michaels played in New Era Sports, indications are that the company barely got off the ground – if at all. According to corporation filings in California, paperwork for New Era Sports & Entertainment was drawn up on Nov. 23, 2005, and records list the business address in Los Angeles under an attorney named Phillip M. Smith Jr.

Contacted late last week, Smith Jr. refused to talk about New Era Sports – even declining to give public details such as a phone number for the company, where the New Era offices were located or who was serving as the company's current president or manager.

Asked why he wouldn't provide such information, Smith ended the brief telephone conversation, saying, "That's really not an issue that I want to deal with." He has failed to return multiple follow-up messages left at his office.

Further attempts to identify New Era produced a single web page with a company logo (http://newerasports.tv/) that contains no active links to indicate where New Era is located, what services are provided or how the company could be contacted. Searches also produced the internet blogs of three self-proclaimed employees of New Era Sports. One such blog included the company logo of New Era and pictures of several NFL players. That blog was taken down shortly after Yahoo! Sports obtained a hard-copy of the page.

Contacted about his alleged meeting with Michaels, Caravantes declined to comment.

Michaels – who is a member of the Sycuan Indian Tribe and works as a business development officer for the tribe's development corporation – failed to return multiple phone calls and was unavailable when Yahoo! Sports visited his home on three occasions this weekend.

The Sycuan tribe, which owns a casino and resort and is engaged in a number of business enterprises in the San Diego area, denied any knowledge of Michaels' relationship with the Bush family.

"The tribe is not aware of his involvement," said spokesman Adam Day, who had been approved to speak for the Sycuan's tribal government. "Any involvement that he has in this situation is his personal involvement. It has no connection or correlation to the tribe, its businesses or Mike's employment by the tribal development corporation.

"What tribal members do on their own time is their own business. It's not the business of the tribe."

Back at the house on Apple Street on Saturday afternoon, the moving trucks had come and gone. A flier offering cleaning services for movers was hung on the front door, and all the shades had been drawn shut. Through a garage window, only a few empty cardboard boxes and straggling trinkets were visible.

Across the street, neighbor Grant Sitton could only shrug.

"I don't know, I guess it didn't work out," Sitton said. "Oh well. They have a big payday coming next week anyway."

Charles Robinson is the national NFL writer for Yahoo! Sports. Send him a question or comment for potential use in a future column or webcast.

jdsooner

4/23/2006, 12:33 PM

Since it is USC, I am sure that there is an explanation. The Trojans wouldn't cheat!!

chriscappel

4/23/2006, 12:40 PM

haha

JohnnyMack

4/23/2006, 12:54 PM

State records show the Apple Street home was built in late 2004 and early 2005, then purchased by Michaels on March 29, 2005 for $757,500. Around that time, neighbors say Bush's family moved in.

Oops.

Soonerus

4/23/2006, 12:59 PM

USC should receive probation for this, they have obviously lost "institutional control" over their football program...

StoopTroup

4/23/2006, 01:03 PM

What the heck is that backround all about?

Very strange...:twinkies:

http://newerasports.tv/

I guess the site doesn't want us to steal bandwidth as they have suddenly lost a client and a renter.

OUGreg723

4/23/2006, 01:10 PM

Son of A...

OUGreg723

4/23/2006, 01:20 PM

This is some shady ****. I wonder if this is only the tip of the USC iceberg...

http://www.earthfuture.com/stormyweather/gallery/19%20-%20Iceberg%202.jpg

Keyser

4/23/2006, 01:39 PM

Front page now lol...

Flagstaffsooner

4/23/2006, 01:41 PM

Does this mean they forfiet the Orange Bowl.:D

olevetonahill

4/23/2006, 01:49 PM

Does this mean they forfiet the Orange Bowl.:D
I was thinking the same thing , That would be some funny shat :D

Sooner24

4/23/2006, 01:51 PM

I wonder if the agent, Michael Michaels, is any kin to this Michaels??? :D

http://www.sportshollywood.com/images/arliss.jpg

Flagstaffsooner

4/23/2006, 01:52 PM

I was thinking the same thing , That would be some funny shat :DGiggle giggle.

StoopTroup

4/23/2006, 01:55 PM

OMG...Auburn will be needing a new trophy too....:D

http://www.pigskinfanpoll.com/images/Trophy_PigskinFanPoll_150.jpghttp://www.pigskinfanpoll.com/images/Trophy_Engraving_Closeup100.jpg

Flagstaffsooner

4/23/2006, 01:56 PM

Looks like showboat boy got caught.

Tailwind

4/23/2006, 01:58 PM

Heh.

StoopTroup

4/23/2006, 01:59 PM

Maybe GW helped them...;)

http://www.lowculture.com/archives/images/rove_bush_home.jpg

Flagstaffsooner

4/23/2006, 02:03 PM

OMG...Auburn will be needing a new trophy too....:D

http://www.pigskinfanpoll.com/images/Trophy_PigskinFanPoll_150.jpghttp://www.pigskinfanpoll.com/images/Trophy_Engraving_Closeup100.jpgThat one looks tarnished enough.:D

SanDiegoSoonerGal

4/23/2006, 02:08 PM

Does this mean they forfiet the Orange Bowl.:D

NCAA statutes prohibit student-athletes or their families from receiving extra benefits from professional sports agents, marketing companies or their representatives. A breach of these statutes could result in an athlete being ruled ineligible, and games in which they played could be forfeited.

Hmmm.

Source (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=cr-bush042306&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)

Instant

4/23/2006, 02:08 PM

This kinda stuff gets my blood boiling.

Then I'm sure your ****ed about the Peterson Lexus deal?

We shouldn't throw rocks...

GottaHavePride

4/23/2006, 02:12 PM

NCAA statutes prohibit student-athletes or their families from receiving extra benefits from professional sports agents, marketing companies or their representatives. A breach of these statutes could result in an athlete being ruled ineligible, and games in which they played could be forfeited.

Too bad it happened after the Orange Bowl. We could've had a backdoor forfeited national championship! ;)

GottaHavePride

4/23/2006, 02:14 PM

Hell, there's two threads about this?

http://www.emblibrary.com/EL/product_images/j1348.jpg

go48

4/23/2006, 02:20 PM

Looks like a NO PEAT now!

Rooster

4/23/2006, 02:26 PM

"Too bad it happened after the Orange Bowl. We could've had a backdoor forfeited national championship"

the article said the house was being built in 2004 and that griffins name was etched in the concrete. sounds like it started before 2005

TripleOption14

4/23/2006, 02:30 PM

yermom

4/23/2006, 02:45 PM

what if VY gets his Heisman :eek:

Soonerus

4/23/2006, 02:45 PM

I don't think it matters much now that Bush is gone. IMO the ncaa is not gonna waste time w/ this since its after the fact and not much they can do about it. If Bush would have stayed for his senior year then maybe but i'm sure he knew he was going pro.

...that misses the point, it happened while he was there...just like NCAA doesn't care about what Kelvin Sampson did at OU since he is gone...I don' t think so...

TripleOption14

4/23/2006, 02:51 PM

I don't think anything is gonna come of the whole Sampson situation either. And if it does haven't they already said they'll punish Sampson not OU. I could be wrong on this point but who knows. To me it just seems like the ncaa does nothing unless its REALLY serious and then they catch it in progress. But like i said who knows.

85Sooner

4/23/2006, 03:33 PM

Maybe they were trying to secure financing. OOOPS!!!!!!!!! jus kiddin.

soonerhubs

4/23/2006, 03:51 PM

I've seen the Yahoo News report. Looks like everyone else (SI, FOXSPORTS, ESPN) got scooped. Any other sources I'm missing on this?

Sooner Among The Pack

4/23/2006, 04:26 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2419079

ESPN reporting it from an interview with the SC AD, referring to the Y! Sports reporter Charles Robinson.

Kudos to him for nailing what could be a HUGE story at the NFL Draft.

birddog

4/23/2006, 04:29 PM

soonerlaw

4/23/2006, 05:29 PM

Well he cheated in that Notre Dame game too, so its no surprise.

JohnnyMack

4/23/2006, 05:33 PM

What if they were RENTING the house from the owner? If they have a stack of cancelled checks dated back for a year would that get them off the hook? That may be illegal too though. I dunno.

OU-HSV

4/23/2006, 05:53 PM

This whole story is hillarious...if everything is true, Reggie's family is stupid..they coulda just waited two years and had whatever dream home they wanted with Reggie's first pro check. Oh well, he'll still be drafted and he'll still be making big NFL money. The only thing I see that could change (but I doubt it will), is USC may end up having a losing record for the '05 season..and that would add to the humor of this! :D

TripleOption14

4/23/2006, 05:55 PM

chris webber was LOOONG gone.

Touche!!! I forgot about that. But when it gets right down to it all Michigan got was a slap on the wrist. "take down your banners and you get two years probation" i think that was about the stint of it. Besides wasn't that a case of a Michigan booster? USC as not been named as any part of this.

stonecoldsoonerfan

4/23/2006, 06:23 PM

the trojans response is....

http://mb25.scout.com/fuscfansfrm1.showMessage?topicID=94575.topic

emoinwinter

4/23/2006, 06:40 PM

the trojans response is....

http://mb25.scout.com/fuscfansfrm1.showMessage?topicID=94575.topic

Those trojans are rediculous. Come on, give me a break! I was sick after reading the first page. Who would RENT a $757,500 home? You buy homes like that.

SanDiegoSoonerGal

4/23/2006, 06:53 PM

I don't think renting a $750K house in SD is that out of the question. The rent house we lived in before is now valued at about $726K, according to zillow.

This is what I find really weird:

If you do a zillow search on Apple or Luther Street in Spring Valley, it's pretty easy to figure out which house it must be.

And the $771K value is MUCH higher than all the other houses in the neighborhood.

Don't believe what those condoms are saying. A 3,000 square foot house is not "average," even in SD.

Jimminy Crimson

4/23/2006, 07:08 PM

Then I'm sure your ****ed about the Peterson Lexus deal?

We shouldn't throw rocks...

I test drove two different cars for a week each time without financing squat, and my name isn't Adrian Peterson.

This is a whole different matter.

StoopTroup

4/23/2006, 07:23 PM

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=apple+and+luther,+spring+valley,+ca&ll=32.71477,-116.98876&spn=0.003083,0.008926&t=h&om=1

SanDiegoSoonerGal

4/23/2006, 07:31 PM

Stoop, I think that satellite picture was taken before the house was built.

Here's something more recent:

http://www.zillow.com/search/Search.z?addrstrthood=9715+Apple+Street&citystatezip=spring+valley%2C+ca&mode=search

StoopTroup

4/23/2006, 07:37 PM

goingoneight

4/23/2006, 08:10 PM

Then I'm sure your ****ed about the Peterson Lexus deal?

We shouldn't throw rocks...

You mean the deal that was ruled legit already, eh? Hmmm, major universities bargaining for good players??? Nah.

The Consumate Showman

4/23/2006, 08:35 PM

This only goes to show how much the NCAA hates programs like OU and only wishes to "stroke" USC's ego....

I wonder how long it will be before the NCAA comes running into Norman to investigate AD and Big Red even though everything has been declared legit. A $15,000 car, or however expensive it was, is one thing, but a $700,000+ house????

Octavian

4/23/2006, 09:03 PM

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/1492/cheer1ks.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

SkipTracer

4/23/2006, 09:05 PM

I read recently that if you go to usc you can get away with murder:rolleyes:

badger

4/23/2006, 09:07 PM

so they cheated. big deal. Rules are set for colleges by the NCAA, not for players. It's up to the schools to enforce these rules with their players, not for the players to be aware of these rules and abide by them.

THEREFORE, let this show the true meaning of "lack of institutional control" and forget about forfeiting the last three seasons - ban USC from the next three postseasons. Motivate them to control their players.

...I can dream, can't I? :D

badger

4/23/2006, 09:08 PM

I read recently that if you go to usc you can get away with murder:rolleyes:
OJ would like to correct you:
http://www.itsalreadysigned4u.com/shop/media/images/product_category/OJ8x10USC.jpg
you can get away with TWO murders, not just "murder." TWO murders.

slickdawg

4/23/2006, 10:58 PM

**** USC
**** BUSH
**** CARROLL
**** LEINART
**** PALMER
**** WHITE
**** OJ
**** ALLEN

**** 'EM ALL

bigdsooner

4/23/2006, 11:06 PM

**** USC
**** BUSH
**** CARROLL
**** LEINART
**** PALMER
**** WHITE
**** OJ
**** ALLEN

**** 'EM ALL

works for me

mrssoonerhubler

4/23/2006, 11:10 PM

Well at least they stayed in the home the minute reports started surfacing to make sure they didn't look suspicious... Oh wait!

BigWillie

4/23/2006, 11:35 PM

I doubt the Bush family could pay fair market rent on a 757k house. The dad's a security guard at a HS, and the mom is a corrections officer. What do you think they make a year? 30-35k before taxes?

GottaHavePride

4/24/2006, 12:09 AM

**** USC
**** BUSH
**** CARROLL
**** LEINART
**** PALMER
**** WHITE
**** OJ
**** ALLEN

**** 'EM ALL
All of them? How about just the cheerleaders?

Desert Sapper

4/24/2006, 01:29 AM

olevetonahill

4/24/2006, 03:48 AM

If there is any way that they can expunge 55-19 completely from the records of college football and it could never be mentioned again in any sports publication, website, or television show, I'm for it. I don't even care that Sheepf***er U might get a 'national championship' out of the deal. As long as the pain and humiliation of the '2005 South Beach Showdown' can disappear forever. Now I remember again why I hate suc.
Wheras I herby declare that suc forfiets all games that aforementioned bush played in , and Hence surrenders all trophys etc: etc : :D
F--k that I would love to see em have to give it ALL up but I dont want # 8 that way I want it fair and square this year :cool:

Desert Sapper

4/24/2006, 04:01 AM

We can only hope that 'if' suc loses its crystal football for 2004-5 (which won't happen in this lifetime), we will have the decency not to put 2004 up in the stadium as a National Championship. We aren't suc, we shouldn't act like they would. Boy would ESPN cry if they took away some of suc's wins. :D

william_brasky

4/24/2006, 06:56 AM

just saw a short piece about it on National News. They mentioned that SC may have to forfeit 2 NC's. Wow.

Eielson

4/24/2006, 07:33 AM

Does this mean they forfiet the Orange Bowl.:DI don't think so. That is the first thing i thought though. They said something like he moved in, in March.

73Easting

4/24/2006, 08:07 AM

OK:

If Bush was inneligeble for the entire '05 season, does the Downtown Athletic Club revoke his Heisman and award it to Vincent Young?

73Easting

4/24/2006, 08:11 AM

My opinion is this:

An offense so egregious as this deserves a fitting sanction by the NCAA so as to set an example for other potential offending universities.

Crimson Kid

4/24/2006, 08:25 AM

i love it that shoe is on the other foot now, but 20 bucks say's they won't get **** done to them.

badger

4/24/2006, 09:07 AM

maybe they'll take down the years just like Michegun did in basketball for the final fours... but they won't award them to others.

At least this could possibly make them shut up for awhile.

(no offense USC fans that reside here, but you really do need to shut up every once in awhile)

caphorns

4/24/2006, 09:12 AM

badger

4/24/2006, 09:18 AM

The NCAA doesn't award national championships. I don't think they'll reconvene the AP and Coaches Poll to revote prior years, so that part is a done deal. Also, the NCAA doesn't award the Heisman.

This is all academic anyway. I can't think of precedent for the NCAA ever forfeiting a past game as a sanction in football. So I'd imagine they'd lay out sanctions for future games or take away schollies. THAT WOULD BE ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC. THANKS REGGIE!!!!!

ah, but they CAN force teams for forfeit past games, whether they are "national championship" games or not.

I think this means Texas' national championship is illegitimate. They played against in ineligible team.

Now if only we can find some dirt on Colorado (hmm....) the "Mack holding all his championship trophies" curse lives on :D

Desert Sapper

4/24/2006, 09:31 AM

Hmmm... take away their post season for the next four years. That would be sweet. Maybe cut their scholly limit by 20. Ouch. Wonder what happens when they find out about the Bentley that VY was driving before the Rose Bowl?;)

Desert Sapper

4/24/2006, 09:37 AM

The NCAA doesn't award national championships. I don't think they'll reconvene the AP and Coaches Poll to revote prior years, so that part is a done deal. Also, the NCAA doesn't award the Heisman.

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't a forfeiture necessitate a win for the other team, National Championship game or no? There may be a star, but a team on the other end of a forfeiture is still the winner by default.

Gandalf_The_Grey

4/24/2006, 09:42 AM

This is actually a valid question too...since Those Fab Five teams had to forfeit all of their games. Does that mean that a 16 seed has in fact beat a 1 seed in the NCAA tournament ;)

caphorns

4/24/2006, 09:44 AM

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't a forfeiture necessitate a win for the other team, National Championship game or no? There may be a star, but a team on the other end of a forfeiture is still the winner by default.

Those championships were determined by the final polls (not by wins and losses). So this is not like basketball or even baseball where the NCAA awards national championships based on the final tournament.

yermom

4/24/2006, 09:48 AM

the BCS is still basically controlled by the wins and losses, the coaches have to vote the winner #1

not that i'm really advocating it, but i could see taking the BCS trophy as a possibility, but the AP probably wouldn't happen

Octavian

4/24/2006, 09:51 AM

I can't think of precedent for the NCAA ever forfeiting a past game as a sanction in football.

Yeah they have.

1972 OU finished 8-4* even though we only lost to Nebraska.

IIRC a conference opponent recently (last decade) had to forfeit a win over us...Im thinking it was Tech in the late 90s.

soonerjoker

4/24/2006, 09:59 AM

72 OU lost only to CO.

they forfeited every game Kerry Jackson played, & i think it was more than 4.

caphorns

4/24/2006, 10:56 AM

Did not know that. Well, I guess we'll see how this develops. I'm not sure it changes the NCs though. Just puts a HUGE asterik by them. Auburn fans have to be happy in their pants right now about the Griffins '05 insignia.

picasso

4/24/2006, 10:57 AM

just saw a short piece about it on National News. They mentioned that SC may have to forfeit 2 NC's. Wow.
but they only won one.

mdklatt

4/24/2006, 12:05 PM

just saw a short piece about it on National News. They mentioned that SC may have to forfeit 2 NC's. Wow.

Which two--2004 and the last one before that in the 70's? That's just not fair. They shouldn't have to forfeit one from before he was even born.

:eddie:

mdklatt

4/24/2006, 12:07 PM

I think this means Texas' national championship is illegitimate. They played against in ineligible team.

I like the way you think!

Pricetag

4/24/2006, 12:22 PM

Didn't USC decide to claim that 1939 NC in the offseason before 2005? Would they have to forfiet that one, too? :D

Big Red Ron

4/24/2006, 12:36 PM

OJ would like to correct you:
http://www.itsalreadysigned4u.com/shop/media/images/product_category/OJ8x10USC.jpg
you can get away with TWO murders, not just "murder." TWO murders.:D

Rock Hard Corn Frog

4/24/2006, 12:49 PM

I don't think the NCAA will be able to ignore this one and ESPN can turn on USC in a heartbeat. If the NCAA starts digging there is no telling what they will find.

Trouble for USC is around the corner.

TexasLidig8r

4/24/2006, 02:19 PM

... Wonder what happens when they find out about the Bentley that VY was driving before the Rose Bowl?;)

It was a Lexus.. and.. he was just test driving it..

Oh.. Wait... :D

Octavian

4/24/2006, 02:25 PM

It was a Lexus.. and.. he was just test driving it..

Oh.. Wait... :D

I remember that....some of el Ced's electronic equipment was in the back

Herr Scholz

4/24/2006, 03:12 PM

I remember that....some of el Ced's electronic equipment was in the back
Ced was a professional baseball player for a minute. ;)

caphorns

4/24/2006, 03:24 PM

Ced was a professional baseball player for a minute. ;)

He did get enough $$$ from the baseball bonus for just 1 plasma TV. As you all probably well know, he couldn't afford to buy a 2nd one. I'm sure he would have loved the AD deal though from Big Red's Rent-A-Center.

Octavian

4/24/2006, 03:24 PM

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/5396/bensongothistv8nj.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

StoopTroup

4/24/2006, 03:57 PM

I just need to see some bank statements showing that Reggie's Parents paid a fair market rent on the property.

Without any proof of payment...USC and RB should suffer the consequences, even if he's deemed ineligible for the NFL Draft.

Harry Beanbag

4/24/2006, 03:59 PM

So what would rent be on a $750,000 house? Six grand or so?

Vaevictis

4/24/2006, 04:09 PM

Prevailing mortgage rate at the time was 6.15% nationwide, so on a 30-year fixed, the monthly on that would be $4570ish. That's obviously the "floor" of the rent, if the owner is willing to take a loss on property taxes and maintenance.

If you include that, it would obviously be higher; how much exactly, I don't know (because I don't know maintenance costs and taxes in that area), but if you assume about 1.25% of value for taxes + maintenance, you're looking at a break-even floor for the owner of $5350ish or so.

I would personally expect it to be higher, given the rather high state of taxation in southern California. Based upon the numbers that people have been throwing around as income for the couple (~$100k/yr), this would essentially eat almost all of their after-tax take home.

Harry Beanbag

4/24/2006, 04:11 PM

That's a big freaking rent check for a security guard and corrections officer.

Vaevictis

4/24/2006, 04:14 PM

No kidding. At one point, I was making quite a bit more than they were, and I never went over $1700/mo in rent. I considered that to be extremely high for *me* at the time, for that matter.

OU-HSV

4/24/2006, 05:46 PM

Maybe they'll penalize USC from having any televised games for the next......well.....infinity. And give more TV coverage for the Big 12 throughout the nation...that would be great. :D

Scott D

4/24/2006, 05:59 PM

That's a big freaking rent check for a security guard and corrections officer.

keep in mind that salaries in San Diego are a little bit higher than most places due to the ungodly high cost of living.

Jello Biafra

4/24/2006, 06:01 PM

I test drove two different cars for a week each time without financing squat, and my name isn't Adrian Peterson.

This is a whole different matter.

was just getting ready to post this. i was planning on trading in the tahoe on an escalade last year. went in on a thursday took it back to them the following monday after putting over 700 miles on it. no charge. no muss no fuss. try getting out a little bit. it depends on what kind of car it is. im sure they don't typically let you take a used KIA over the weekend to drive but if you are looking at spending some jack, im sure they are a little more leniant.

Harry Beanbag

4/24/2006, 06:16 PM

keep in mind that salaries in San Diego are a little bit higher than most places due to the ungodly high cost of living.

I am. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say they make $120,000 a year, I'm guessing the figure isn't nearly that high though. We've already established that a fair rent price on that property would probably be somewhere between $5000 and $6000 a month. That comes out to well over half their gross yearly salary.

Edit:
San Diego median salary for a Senior Security Guard
http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layoutscripts/swzl_compresult.asp?origin=secheader&statecode=&state=&metro=&city=&geo=U.S.+National+Averages&jobcode=SC16000097&jobtitle=Security+Guard%2C+Sr.&search=&narrowdesc=Fire%2C+Law+Enforcement%2C+and+Security&narrowcode=LG01&r=salswz_swzttsbtn_psr&p=050205_psr_495&s=salary&geocode=&pagenumber=&zipcode=&metrocode=155&x=47&y=13

San Diego median salary for a Corrections Officer (could be much higher based on seniority)
http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layoutscripts/swzl_compresult.asp?origin=secheader&statecode=&state=&metro=&city=&geo=U.S.+National+Averages&jobcode=LG12000016&jobtitle=Correction+Officer&search=&narrowdesc=Fire%2C+Law+Enforcement%2C+and+Security&narrowcode=LG01&r=salswz_swzttsbtn_psr&p=050205_psr_495&s=salary&geocode=&pagenumber=&zipcode=&metrocode=155&x=30&y=6

Scott D

4/24/2006, 06:38 PM

tulsaoilerfan

4/24/2006, 06:38 PM

Reggie was on ESPN with Trey Wingo,and basically didn't answer much of anything; imagine that.

Harry Beanbag

4/24/2006, 06:43 PM

SanDiegoSoonerGal

4/24/2006, 06:44 PM

Interesting stuff from this article: (www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/14413481.htm)

According to NCAA guidelines, the relationship between the family and Michaels could constitute a violation, even if Bush had no knowledge of the relationship.

An NCAA rules guide designed for student-athletes states: "Nor may your relatives or friends accept benefits from an agent, financial advisor, runner or any other person associated with an agency business. (Benefits include but are not limited to transportation, money and gifts, regardless of the value of the benefit or if it is used.)"

That refers to NCAA bylaw 12.3.1, which further state that "an individual shall be ineligible if he or she (or his or her relatives or friends) accepts such benefits." Thus, Bush might have been ineligible for the entire season.

The question of whether the family paid a fair-market rent for the 3,002-square foot home with a panoramic view of Sweetwater Lake has not been answered. But that might not matter: The NCAA frowns on any relationships that exist between sports marketing representatives and family members of colleges athletes.

Commensurate rent in that subdivision is at least $2,500 a month, although the mortgage payment on the home Michaels purchased could be significantly higher. LaMar Griffin works in security at a public high school in San Diego. Denise Griffin has worked as a corrections officer and deputy sheriff. The Griffins previously lived in an apartment in Spring Valley before moving into the home, according to public records.

Scott D

4/24/2006, 08:20 PM

I wasn't trying to say that USC had anything to do with it, I was just wondering how in the world they could have paid for it. Without knowing their actual income or if some kind soul was taking it in the shorts so they could pay the rent, it's hard to say. But I'm comfortable with saying that there was no way in hell they could have pulled it off, short of winning the lottery. Which they will be doing this weekend anyway.

Oh I agree, I'm just sort of looking at it from the aspect of how it's going to be difficult to see the situation going to the point where the NCAA would either sanction USC or make them forfeit games that Bush played in that time span.

Vaevictis

4/25/2006, 12:14 AM

San Diego County records show the 3,002-square-foot home has an assessed value of $339,394, including $99,394 for the land. State records showed construction was completed in early 2005 and Michaels purchased it for more than $757,000 in late March.

Hmm... that's interesting. I wonder how it is that you have a home that's been purchased at $750k, but the county tax assayer only puts it at $340k. Normally they push the price up above what you paid to try and collect taxes; I've never ever heard of them halving it inside of a year.

Where did that $400k go? Did the tax assayer undervalue it (unlikely, unless the tax assayer is crooked)... or did the buyer overpay? If he overpaid... well, people don't overpay the value of a house by 100%. That money had to go somewhere.

Dances with Possums

4/25/2006, 01:08 AM

Vaevictus,

Here in Austin, the county tax assessor has my house valued at 267,000, but I believe I could sell it for close to 400k right now if I wanted to. I go down every year and fight my appraisal and every year they cave in and lower my assessed value from whatever they originally had it at to something more reasonable. Plus there is a law here in Texas that the assessed value of your primary dwelling can't go up more than 10% in any given year. The upshot: because I've owned the house for quite a few years and because I fight the appraisal every year my house is currently valued for far less than I could sell it for.

Desert Sapper

4/25/2006, 02:02 AM

Maybe they'll penalize USC from having any televised games for the next......well.....infinity. And give more TV coverage for the Big 12 throughout the nation...that would be great. :D

I wonder how that would work with them playing ND every year? The domers would positively s*** themselves if even one of their games didn't end up on the boob tube, especially the suc game. Wow, this might actually play out against multiple teams. Heh. :D

swardboy

4/25/2006, 08:30 AM

Hmm... that's interesting. I wonder how it is that you have a home that's been purchased at $750k, but the county tax assayer only puts it at $340k. Normally they push the price up above what you paid to try and collect taxes; I've never ever heard of them halving it inside of a year.

Where did that $400k go? Did the tax assayer undervalue it (unlikely, unless the tax assayer is crooked)... or did the buyer overpay? If he overpaid... well, people don't overpay the value of a house by 100%. That money had to go somewhere.

Assessed values are a percentage of the appraised value of a house. Differs from county to county. An assessed value can be as little as 50% of the appraised value. I don't know what the assessed value is in that county, but it's probably in line with the numbers you're seeing.

Rock Hard Corn Frog

4/25/2006, 08:51 AM

so going with the median rather than benefit of the doubt, we'll say that combined they bring in about 71.5k per year. We'd still need to know the terms of the lease, especially in comparison with leases of like sized homes in similar locations there.

I'd say Bush's lack of answers when questioned about it on ESPN makes it seem fishy in a Mark McGwire kind of way, but still a lot that is going to go unanswered. The problem that the NCAA may have in this matter is that I believe they'd have to show somehow that USC was aware of this living situation for his parents if the home was obtained illicitly, then rule on whether or not Bush would have been an eligible student athlete or if the matter made him a professional.

I think at this time it would be real hard to prove that the powers that be at USC had any previous knowledge of any sort of arrangement involving his parents and the home they were staying in.

I think where this can get interesting is that first the Pac-10 is now investigatng this so there is a good chance that some intraconference politics could get involved. There could be a member or two out to stick it to USC.

Legally there aren't any laws that Bush or his family would have broken by getting improper gifts and since Bush is going to go #1 in the draft pretty much regardless of how this shakes out I don't think there is much pressure on him to cooperate if the Pac-10 or the NCAA want answers, BUT: as we well know once the Pac-10 (or the NCAA) get the runaround they may presume guilt on the part of Bush and/or USC until there is some evidence proving they didn't know or were not involved, not to mention that any potential NCAA investigation could uncover all kinds of other things that have nothing to do with this.

I get a kick out of some of the Bush apologists who say he didn't know that his parents were getting this house. For one thing if I were about to make a huge paycheck in the draft and thought anything about my parents I would be making arrangements to buy them a new house. So in that regard money given to Bush's parents is money given to him. Second, don't you think he would notice his parents moved? I think it is more likely that Bush helped put this deal together. I know some media have been downplaying this but this is exactly the sort of thing the NCAA should be cracking down on.

I look for Bush to stonewall the Pac-10, media and possibly NCAA and I hope everyone has the stones to push forward with the investigation.

Harry Beanbag

4/25/2006, 09:11 AM

I think it would be a bigger story if they had moved into the house like 3 years ago in Bush's freshman year.

There are a lot parents of basketball recruits getting new houses now days...

caphorns

4/25/2006, 09:26 AM

What I love is how the original defense (from his attorney) is that he knew nothing about it. Then, last night the joker is on my set saying it was a normal lease. Did he know nothing about it or does he know the facts? Seems like an obvious cover. Oh well. ESPN says its minor so I guess its minor. No problem with a little corruption right?

Vaevictis

4/25/2006, 09:57 AM

Assessed values are a percentage of the appraised value of a house. Differs from county to county. An assessed value can be as little as 50% of the appraised value. I don't know what the assessed value is in that county, but it's probably in line with the numbers you're seeing.

Hmm, maybe my parent's experiences are just bizzare then. They bought a house recently, and the county assayer tacked on $15k to the value of the house, valuing well over what they paid within the first year.

usmc-sooner

4/25/2006, 09:59 AM

I think it would be a bigger story if they had moved into the house like 3 years ago in Bush's freshman year.

There are a lot parents of basketball recruits getting new houses now days...

that doesn't matter unless they got a lot of phone calls. :rolleyes:

caphorns

4/25/2006, 10:50 AM

that doesn't matter unless they got a lot of phone calls.

. . . from hookers (reminds me that we could use a Gary Barnett icon on here)

Taxman71

4/25/2006, 11:21 AM

Hmm, maybe my parent's experiences are just bizzare then. They bought a house recently, and the county assayer tacked on $15k to the value of the house, valuing well over what they paid within the first year.

The tax value can be reassessed when the house is sold or improved. Aside from that, Oklahoma limits annual increases to 5% per year. In a booming market, the tax assessed value can be well less than FMV. Newer houses, not so much.

Harry Beanbag

4/25/2006, 11:47 AM

The assessed value of my three year old house is about $90,000 less than the appraised value. They have some kind of limit on the increase here too since home values have doubled here in the last three years.

caphorns

4/25/2006, 11:52 AM

By the way, is there anything less intimidating that the statement: "You're under investigation by the Pac-10"

SkipTracer

4/25/2006, 11:52 AM

I read that Reggie said he'd only been in that house "maybe" once on Thanksgiving or maybe Xmas.:rolleyes:

Reggie also said he wouldn't quit looking until he found the real renter.:D

Gandalf_The_Grey

4/25/2006, 12:08 PM

Who was it that said, "If the NCAA gets mad at Kentucky....they will put Kentucky St. on probation" ;)

Harry Beanbag

4/25/2006, 12:13 PM

Who was it that said, "If the NCAA gets mad at Kentucky....they will put Kentucky St. on probation" ;)

:eddie: ?

Vaevictis

4/25/2006, 12:23 PM

The tax value can be reassessed when the house is sold or improved. Aside from that, Oklahoma limits annual increases to 5% per year. In a booming market, the tax assessed value can be well less than FMV. Newer houses, not so much.

Well, the house in question (Griffin's) was apparently brand new -- first time purchase in 2005 for $750k, but valued at $340k by the county assayer. Doesn't that seem odd to you? Or is swardboy correct in saying that it's typical?

I can see where an old house's assayed value would lag behind due to caps, but this was a new building assayed at less than 50% of the original purchase price within the first year of construction. I obviously am not an expert in property tax law, but that doesn't seem quite right to me.

Taxman71

4/25/2006, 12:34 PM

The only way I see that is if the $340k value is for the partial completion value at 12/31/04. If the house was completed in 2005, the reassessed value would be done at the end of 12/31/05 and would be higher. It also depends on whether the closing price was documented on the deed or if he purchased the lot and hired a builder to build it. In the case of the latter, no official record would exist as to the cost of the house and the tax assessor would speculate based on comps.

Vaevictis

4/25/2006, 12:39 PM

Well, according to the various articles, it was purchased post-construction by Michaels for $757k, so in theory, the purchase price should be on the deed, yes?

GulfCoastBamaFan

4/25/2006, 02:50 PM

The only way to sort all of this out is to have Phil Fulmer look into it.

Taxman71

4/25/2006, 03:00 PM

Well, according to the various articles, it was purchased post-construction by Michaels for $757k, so in theory, the purchase price should be on the deed, yes?

Yes, unless the assessment does not yet reflect the post-construction sale. They tend to lag behind for some time.

swardboy

4/25/2006, 03:40 PM

The only way to sort all of this out is to have Phil Fulmer look into it.

Gaaahhh! It hurts when I laugh that hard....

emoinwinter

4/25/2006, 06:15 PM

OU-HSV

4/25/2006, 08:01 PM

I wonder how that would work with them playing ND every year? The domers would positively s*** themselves if even one of their games didn't end up on the boob tube, especially the suc game. Wow, this might actually play out against multiple teams. Heh. :D
Yeah, I'd laugh my azz off for a while if they did this to them.

Rock Hard Corn Frog

4/26/2006, 04:43 PM

I just got done watching the ESPN interview of Bush on this. He didn't answer any of the questions! This is so frustrating because they are probably going to get off scott free! It is rediculous! The rules were broken. He wouldn't answer who paid the rent. Do you want to know why? Because his parents didn't pay. All he kept on saying is that when it is done everybody will see it was legitimate. I really hope he doesn't get away free from this.

Well Bush may very well lose a Heisman over this. I still think if he and his family stonewall the Pac-10 and the NCAA it has the potential to get ugly for USC. If not directly, then indirectly.

okienole3

4/26/2006, 06:14 PM

One question. Why is it that Yahoo Sports is scooping ESPN, etc... on this deal?

Sooner Among The Pack

4/26/2006, 06:29 PM

One question. Why is it that Yahoo Sports is scooping ESPN, etc... on this deal?

From this new Y! link:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Ah2Rz.lujRuBXcEq5ba8C2k5nYcB?slug=cr-bush042606&prov=yhoo&type=lgns&expire=1

seems like Charles Robinson, the reporter from Y! who wrote the original piece, is all about playing Law and Order. Now he's dug up parole violation hearings that allegedly tie Bush and Winston Justice to New Era Sports.

Looks like he's doing pretty good. Maybe ESPN will hire him now :D

CatfishSooner

4/27/2006, 12:34 AM

Bush was on Conan tonight......and Conan didn't ask
Reggie one thing about the "little" incident, but he DID do a
little infomercial for his Adidas pants endorsment....

Kinda Lame.

stoops the eternal pimp

4/27/2006, 12:37 AM

Bush was on Conan tonight......and Conan didn't ask
Reggie one thing about the "little" incident, but he DID do a
little infomercial for his Adidas pants endorsment....

Kinda Lame.

Letterman would have harassed him like he did Janet after the SB....

mrssoonerhubler

4/27/2006, 12:44 AM

Letterman would have harassed him like he did Janet after the SB....
Crazy to think that a Bush is sounding more like a Clinton. :)

SoonerAtKU

4/27/2006, 02:21 AM

Well Bush may very well lose a Heisman over this.

Who's taking his Heisman away? The Downtown Athletic Club?

yermom

4/27/2006, 02:25 AM

apparently there is a DAC clause that he has to be in good standing with the NCAA or somesuch

SoonerAtKU

4/27/2006, 02:40 AM

Hmm, is that retroactive? Crazy if it is...

Desert Sapper

4/27/2006, 05:41 AM

Oh please. Nothing will come of this. He doesn't go to OU. He goes to suc. suc always gets off scott free. Just ask Orenthal James Simpson. Last I checked, some obscure violation of NCAA rules through a third party is slightly less criminal than a double homicide.

Rock Hard Corn Frog

4/27/2006, 08:32 AM

Who's taking his Heisman away? The Downtown Athletic Club?

Mark Sanchez has vowed to sexually assault anyone that tries to take Bush's Heisman.

According to one report I heard the Downtown Athletic Club has a rule that requires that the player must be compliant with the NCAA eligibility rules. It could depend on how far the Pac-10 and/or NCAA go with the investigation which will probably be encouraged/discouraged by how much the media stays on it.

badger

4/27/2006, 10:07 AM

One question. Why is it that Yahoo Sports is scooping ESPN, etc... on this deal?

Whenever media outlets try to become bigger, they hire people to do stories like this.

If the Oklahoman was smart, they would hire people to do stuff like this.

...alas, I think ESPN is embarrassed that they were not the ones who broke this news.

SoCal

4/27/2006, 04:16 PM

apparently there is a DAC clause that he has to be in good standing with the NCAA or somesuch

What is a DAC clause?

Harry Beanbag

4/27/2006, 04:19 PM

What is a DAC clause?

Downtown Athletic Club?

StoopTroup

4/27/2006, 05:45 PM

Dumb A$$ Californian?

Keyser

4/28/2006, 10:28 AM

Pic of the house...

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2006/football/ncaa/04/28/reggie.bush.house.ap/p1.bush.house.ap.jpg

We also have a lawsuit now

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/football/ncaa/04/28/reggie.bush.house.ap/index.html

Taxman71

4/28/2006, 10:32 AM

That suit looks like posturing to make the deal look better to the NCAA. No way the free rent was not an enticement for Reggie to sign with the agent.

Vaevictis

4/28/2006, 10:35 AM

It gets better. I'll repost it here, too. (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AtOhVJ7mx5sTNxh9y.W6yoNDubYF?slug=cr-bushsuit042706&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)

Pertinent section:

# November 2004 – LaMar Griffin and Lake approached Michaels about investing in the sports agency. Watkins said Michaels met Reggie Bush and his family for the first time around this date, and was led to believe that the agency would eventually have Bush as a client.

"There was the representation that Reggie would come with his stepfather," Watkins said. "Reggie ratified that."

PAW

4/28/2006, 11:31 AM

Only $54K of the supposed $300K was rent. I wonder what the other $246K went to and if they can back it up.

Keyser

4/29/2006, 11:45 AM

Only $54K of the supposed $300K was rent. I wonder what the other $246K went to and if they can back it up.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2426429

NEW YORK -- The parents of Southern California football star Reggie Bush received $100,000 in cash from investors in a sports marketing company that hoped to sign the running back, an attorney for the investors said in a letter obtained by The San Diego Union-Tribune.

Attorney Brian Watkins told the newspaper on Friday that Bush's parents, LaMar and Denise Griffin, asked for the money partly to resolve financial problems. Watkins said the money included an initial payment of about $30,000 to help start up the New Era Sports and Entertainment agency.

Desert Sapper

4/29/2006, 11:51 AM

You have to wonder with all this, why didn't they just wait? He's going to be a multimillionaire in a few hours here. If his parents could have waited this long, he could have easily given them a really nice house.