A good theory

[Rooster]

even if a horn wrote it.

Texas-OU trends and changes

The offseason is long and boring and I have some time on my hands. There’s been a lot of discussion about the position matchups in this years Texas-OU game. It’s not my intent to rehash most of that. Instead I wanted to address the Sooner fans who are predicting that OU will dominate that game on the basis of the past. I think those folks relying on highly simplistic and faulty reasoning and this analysis will explain the basis for that conclusion. Read and decide for yourself.

History
From 2000-2003, OU had a major edge in the RRS. These four years included 2 blowouts that have scarred some Longhorn fans for life. The past 2 seasons have seen a tough defensive struggle won by OU and blowout win by Texas. Yet some (not all) Sooners insist that with Vince gone, things will now return to “business as usual” by which they seem to mean this anomalous four year period. That won’t happen and I’ll explain why but to really understand we have to examine the causes of OU’s successful run in the first place. Here’s my take:

Bob Stoops became head coach at Oklahoma in 1999 and immediately implemented a program of dramatic change throughout the team. Players tired of losing bought into the system as it brought immediate improvement in the first season. With Stoops came a corps of hungry, young coaches who were unproven but later showed themselves to be outstanding. But most important, IMO he introduced schemes on both the offensive and defensive sides of the ball that were aggressive, well designed and radically different from anything that the Big XII had seen up to that point.

System
Because the schemes were such a departure, opposing teams were completely unprepared for them. In terms of personnel (recruiting) and design, the existing teams were poorly positioned to counteract the new OU. Because they were well designed, the weaknesses of the new schemes were not apparent at first. It took some time to analyze them, then to design countermeasures, recruit the kids and train them to execute. In terms of OU vs the rest of the Big XII, I would expect that this process is now largely complete and the balance has shifted back against OU as much as we can reasonably expect.

The Stoops defense, which has not changed radically since 1999 is a well designed, integrated philosophy which relies on applying quick pressure to shut down the running game and force quick (and hopefully bad) decisions in the passing game. It requires the DTs to engage at least 3 blockers, leaving the DEs with man blocking and freeing the LBs to make plays in the running game. In line with this, the DEs are also the primary source of pressure in the pass rush with additional support provided by blitzing LBs and safeties. They run disguised zone coverages behind the front 7. Overall, it is very sound fundamentally and it took a while to spot its weaknesses.

If you look at the way the DBs are coached, the system clearly relies on getting quick pressure on the QBs. Every OU DB seems to bite on the receiver’s first move (and thus on the pump fake). That works really well if the D can force a quick throw – lots of picks have happened that way. If they can’t then the DBs are going to get beaten deep, a lot in this scheme. The same tendency also applies to play action since the run-first philosophy on defense often has the LBs and safeties taking their first step towards the LOS. These vulnerabilities were first exploited by Les Miles and RC Slocum.

On the other hand, we’ve all seen what can happen when it does work. They will always be strong against the run and usually force you to beat them through the air. They will force your QB into throws that are low percentage but high payoff. The tradeoff is probably worthwhile, it’s just that initially it appeared that there was no tradeoff, only upside.

On the offensive side of the ball, the Leach spread was opposed by defenses designed to stop power rushing attacks. The Big XII was full of big, hard-nosed LBs and run stuffing safeties, exactly the wrong kind of personnel to deal with 4 and 5 WR spread attacks. Not only did defenses have the wrong type of players at many positions, they also had the wrong mix of players. Depth at DL and LB to offset the pounding they would take at the hands of Nebraska, Colorado or KSU was a wise precaution. But few teams had a good nickel back, much less a good 4th coverage man. This offense naturally tore a lot of people a new one.

On both sides of the ball, OU took the league by surprise and with some luck, they won the MNC in 2000. Stoops was an unknown as HC and the whole conference clearly underestimated him. He and his defense are now know quantities.

Changes at Texas
Texas is simply a much better team than during the 2000-2003 period. That starts with the OL and the defense.

Offensive Line – This is the big one. OL play has improved dramatically in the last 3 years. Tim Nunez was a really subpar position coach and was replaced by Mac McWhorter in 2002-2003. Since that transition, the line has shown major improvement each year, becoming one of the best in the country by 2005. In 1999-2002, our line couldn’t create any running room or pass protect well against strong defenses. Not just OU, Kansas State gave us absolute fits, as did Arkansas. The turnaround to date has been dramatic.

The 2006 OL will feature 3 returning 5th year Sr starters, plus another in blocking TE Tweedie. Every lineman has redshirted, even the outstanding talents like Blaylock. This is a mature, seasoned group that is used to playing together. It’s fair to expect them to continue to play at a high level. The Okie defense feasted off of a weak Texas OL for years but that era is over and a strong OL directly attacks one of the foundations of that defense. If they can’t force the quick throw, they are hideously vulnerable to the deep ball. Teams that have beaten the Sooners have all had either superior OL, mobile QBs or both. Either one will buy time for the WRs to beat the coverage deep. We will have at least the one and possibly both this season.

Defensive System – First Robinson and now Chizik are producing better results with less risk. We don’t see 2-3 LBs at the LOS every down now. No straight man coverage every down, plenty of zone gets mixed in. Coverages are disguised well.

Defensive End – Our DEs used to have an impossible assignment under Carl Reese. The scheme neutralized them as a pass rushing threat and often left them in conflict and indecisive. Robinson and now Chizik have simplified their responsibilities and turned them loose on the outside. Coach Giles has done an outstanding job in one year of coaching them up and improving their technique (see playing with leverage).

Offensive Wrinkles – These help to keep teams off balance and have been introduced over the past couple of years. We frequently use a no huddle offense to keep teams on their heels, exploit personnel mismatches and prevent substitutions. The quick count is only used occasionally but now creates a lot of uncertainty on the defense. They will pay for too much shifting and jumping around pre-snap. The snap count used to be too predictable and teams could move around confident that we wouldn’t catch them out of position. This is no longer true. When OU seemed to know the play call and the snap count, they could line up and then run a DB halfway across the field in the last 2 seconds before the snap. If they did that now, they would screw themselves.

Changes at Oklahoma
Offensive Line – Problems here are chronic, systemic and well documented. They need to be mentioned first but I will not dwell on them here. Let’s just say that they would be better off with the grab, hold on and pray blocking techniques that can be used in Leach’s offense.

Muddled Offense – Since Leach’s departure, OU has really lacked a consistent identity on offense. They’ve gone from pass-heavy to run-heavy from the spread. Then they changed to an I-formation power running team with play action and when Peterson couldn’t carry the load they went back towards the spread. The inconsistency has shown in their offensive rankings, as they’ve been #66, #37, #19, #8 (good OL, WR, White and Peterson) and #71 over the last 5 years. For comparison, even with our problems, Texas has been much more consistent, ranked #38, #48, #20, #7 and #3 over the same period.

Coaching – 3 former assistants under Stoops now HCs elsewhere. Other than (still co-) DC Venables, is anyone on the current staff ever mentioned for jobs openings? The young fire breathers are gone. Sumlin as co-OC doesn’t really impress me and Bobby Jack Wright at co-DC just makes me chuckle.


Changes in the Big XII
Offensive Familiarity – Even if Wilson is able to effectively execute the change to more of a run-oriented spread, he won’t have the success that Leach did. In 1999, the dominant teams (Nebraska, K-State, Colorado and Texas) all had power-oriented running games that operated mostly out of the I-formation. Not only was Leach’s spread new, it was a radical departure from what the conference’s defenses had been gearing up to stop. It was pass-oriented and put WRs all over the field at a time when DCs had been designing 8 man fronts and emphasizing the front 7. Defenses have adjusted pretty well now but it was a shock.

Wilson wants to install a run-oriented spread, presumably like what Northwestern used. It won’t be a surprise and DCs will be well-prepared for it. Teams have been trying to stop something very much like it run by Texas for a couple of years now and A&M runs a spread option attack (basically a split back Veer run from the shotgun). Many teams now run some form of the spread, although most are pass-oriented. Even if Wilson turns out to be as good an OC as Leach (doubtful but not yet tested), his results on the field won’t be as good since the opponents will be prepared.

Defenses all over the conference have gotten, smaller and faster, with more DBs to deal with all the 3 and 4 wide passing sets. They are already designed to defend many variations of the spread. Wilson’s switch won’t create any relative advantage, though it may suit their OL better. To achieve the same shock effect as Leach did, Wilson would have to implement some kind of brand-new, innovative power running scheme which would run over lighter, faster defenses.

Conclusion
OU may still beat Texas but I doubt it will be easy as many Okies clearly hope. Whether they want to admit it or not, Mack game planned well to win the RRS this year. Sooner fans have to assume amnesia or complete idiocy on Mack’s part – he will somehow abandon a successful formula and revert to a losing game plan – to make their predictions of a return to the 2000-2003 period make sense. Most of the factors that favored the Sooners in that period are no longer present and Texas has corrected may of their past weaknesses. OU may be tougher than last year but Texas will put an excellent team on the field. OU has serious weaknesses at OL and question marks at DT, DB and RB (injury). Expecting a Sooner blowout in the RRS just isn’t rational.

http://forums.hornfans.com/php/wwwthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=football&Number=4149508&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=

[BASSooner]

Pretty good little article but their are some things on there that I clearly disagree with. I think he fails to realize that losing leadership and putting in a brand new QB will put effect into his team. This year's game will be good. Next year's will be the sooners' "back to business" game. Mark my word on that. Also, I have no idea why he is chuckling about bobby jack wright. saxet had 1st and 3rd best secondary in the country under him @ saxet. Coaching is another thing he is missing. Yes we lost Long and Wyatt BUT...we have guys who have been with Stoops since he arrived at Norman. The following Shipp, Venables, BJW, Schmitty, and Gundy. We've always been fine with coaches here even when we lose them. Now I'm not saying that he was wrong, but that their are some things about the sooners that this guy doesn't know about which is cool because he is a whorn fan. I think both teams are even in 2006. We both have ?s to deal with.

[suncoastsooner7]

What offensive game plan/formula? My wife could call read right, read left, hand off up the middle for 60 minutes an afternoon.

[mrssoonerhubler]

:rolleyes: Oh no USC and Texas will be a strong as ever. Never mind the QB's being green.:rolleyes:
Did I miss the Whorn mentioning AD being out last year, or was that my imagination?

[Octavian]

ehh...the defending national champions are creating formula threads on why they won't get blown out...

someone's gettin antsy...

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

its the same story every year from texas and aTm posters - way, way too much focus on the alignment and not enough on the alignees.

[yermom]

some better red zone efficiency in 2004 and that game is a lot uglier (a dumb penalty, an "interception" and a bad choice scramble took scores off the board)

we may have only won by 12 points, but 225 yards by AD and a goose egg on the other side of the scoreboard is an *** kicking

i think the 2001 game was a lot closer

[snp]

Whether they want to admit it or not, Mack game planned well to win the RRS this year.

How did Mack plan on AD getting injured with a rookie QB at the helm.

Terrible article.

[tbl]

I agree with some of it, but his bias is extremely clear.

"this anomalous four year period"
"and with some luck, they won the MNC in 2000."

Dirty whorn...

[Egeo]

Because the schemes were such a departure, opposing teams were completely unprepared for them. In terms of personnel (recruiting) and design, the existing teams were poorly positioned to counteract the new OU. Because they were well designed, the weaknesses of the new schemes were not apparent at first. It took some time to analyze them, then to design countermeasures, recruit the kids and train them to execute. In terms of OU vs the rest of the Big XII, I would expect that this process is now largely complete and the balance has shifted back against OU as much as we can reasonably expect.

wait a second, leach is still pretty successful at tech
also, i dont see how the big 12 could have been wholly unprepared for OUr techniques since most of our top coaches worked at kstate during one time or another


Offensive Line – This is the big one. OL play has improved dramatically in the last 3 years. Tim Nunez was a really subpar position coach and was replaced by Mac McWhorter in 2002-2003. Since that transition, the line has shown major improvement each year, becoming one of the best in the country by 2005. In 1999-2002, our line couldn’t create any running room or pass protect well against strong defenses. Not just OU, Kansas State gave us absolute fits, as did Arkansas. The turnaround to date has been dramatic.
you do realize that mobile qb's make oline's look better? but i wont lie, the tehas oline last year was very very good
but jkm is exactly right, the alignees dictate the alignment - we play to OUr strengths
the tehas oline was one of the best last year because of the alignees, not any difference in coaching when if i recall correctly, tehas has very highly rated olines during the whole stoops era


The inconsistency has shown in their offensive rankings, as they’ve been #66, #37, #19, #8 (good OL, WR, White and Peterson) and #71 over the last 5 years. For comparison, even with our problems, Texas has been much more consistent, ranked #38, #48, #20, #7 and #3 over the same period.
he's telling us that tehas' 2004 offense ranked #7 was better than the OU 2004 offense ranked #8 - yet they couldnt even score on our defense and they were gifted a redzone turnover in that game - i think they benefited from schedule


Even if Wilson turns out to be as good an OC as Leach (doubtful but not yet tested), his results on the field won’t be as good since the opponents will be prepared.

Defenses all over the conference have gotten, smaller and faster, with more DBs to deal with all the 3 and 4 wide passing sets. They are already designed to defend many variations of the spread. Wilson’s switch won’t create any relative advantage, though it may suit their OL better. To achieve the same shock effect as Leach did, Wilson would have to implement some kind of brand-new, innovative power running scheme which would run over lighter, faster defenses.
i like to call our new power running game #28

nice attempt at an article, but this guy doesnt really know what he's talking about when it comes to OU strengths just like i couldnt write an article about texas

[Bevo-Stevo]

How did Mack plan on AD getting injured with a rookie QB at the helm.

Does Peterson play defense? Does Bomar? And as far as the "antsy" feelings of UT fans, that is wishful thinking on your part. Most Texas fans feel pretty good about the Horns' chances against ou this October....and yes Bassooner...even next year as well.

[Soonerman08]

Does Peterson play defense? Does Bomar? And as far as the "antsy" feelings of UT fans, that is wishful thinking on your part. Most Texas fans feel pretty good about the Horns' chances against ou this October....and yes Bassooner...even next year as well.


Yeah well they're the only ones in the nation who feel good about the Whorns chances against OU. Sometime the lightbulb will come on, oh wait I am talking about a Whorn......nevermind what the heck was I thinking?!

[OUDoc]

I think the title to this thread was misleading.

[crawfish]

What I saw last year was Mack's coaching getting UT in 3rd or 4th-and-long situations, and Vince's legs getting UT out of them.

UT will be very good, of that I have no doubt. I also have no doubt that they face a significant disadvantage against us when depending on their coaching schemes over natural ability.

[Egeo]

Does Peterson play defense? Does Bomar? And as far as the "antsy" feelings of UT fans, that is wishful thinking on your part. Most Texas fans feel pretty good about the Horns' chances against ou this October....and yes Bassooner...even next year as well.
its hard for a defense to step up when the offense goes 3 and out all day

but guess what - from what ive seen from the spring games, comparing this years and last years; ou's oline will be way better than last year
peterson will hopefully be healthy and bomar will improve from experience alone

expect the ou offense to be much much better than you saw last year

then, there is the defense which i expect to be ever so slightly better than last years
the dline should be as good overall, stronger on the ends, weaker in the middle
the lb's about the same, returning 2 starters
and the db's much improved over the db's you saw where we started 2 true frosh at safety last year against you guys

the corners should be very solid with the only worry safety play - and if the starters at safety are jason carter and nic harris, i wont be worried
and our nickel package looks good with either lendy holmes or marcus walker coming in

to me, the db's now sound way better than last year because we have more experience at 3 of the 4 starting spots, a better nickelback and the most talented db of them all mans the other spot

[Rooster]

"I think the title to this thread was misleading"

A theory isnt fact, just an educated guess on the theorist part, and considering he is a horn that makes it a less educated guess..

[Octavian]

What I saw last year was Mack's coaching getting UT in 3rd or 4th-and-long situations, and Vince's legs getting UT out of them.

UT will be very good, of that I have no doubt. I also have no doubt that they face a significant disadvantage against us when depending on their coaching schemes over natural ability.

you mean Greg Davis wasn't the source of horn success?!? :confused:

;)

[yermom]

What I saw last year was Mack's coaching getting UT in 3rd or 4th-and-long situations, and Vince's legs getting UT out of them.

UT will be very good, of that I have no doubt. I also have no doubt that they face a significant disadvantage against us when depending on their coaching schemes over natural ability.

you mean 3rd and 10 scrambling for 80 yards isn't a gameplan? :confused:

[dougsooner]

What a load of $%^&. texASS got lucky to beat Michigan in the Rose Bowl 2 years back and then rode 1 single person (mr. Wonderlickit) to the Rose Bowl where the defense got exposed but they did step up with mr. Wonderlickit and win. They had 1 weapon last year and he's gone. Rookie QB this year means Macky will have to go back to coaching instead of letting the QB just drop back and run it. That doesn't bode well for texASS. It is interesting that all of the former texASS coaches were so bad in this guy's eyes but all the new ones are brilliant. Typical load of shorthorn ^%&#.

[BASSooner]

Some of the games last year were bail outs by Radio. They won't have him to save them this year from OU, loSur, or tOSU.

[Harry Beanbag]

I'm having a hard time understanding why all these Texas fans keep saying our defense was horrible last year. In Total Defense, OU was ranked 13th last year, three whole spots below Texas.

[goodonya]

When I was a kid my grandfather would describe this kind of behavior as "whistling past the graveyard". After reading their boards regularly for the last 6-years or so the false bravado being displayed is more akin to Stuart Smalley's daily affirmation of "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, etc". Their take is that 5-years of domination, championships, and playing for championships are negated by a 1-in-a-row, BXII & NC. It is simply not possible to have a logical discussion with most of them. They likely feel the same about many OU fans and rightfully so. Regardless the facts are facts.

I've been in W. Houston since the early 90's and have cultivated quite a few UT friends. With the exception of the few described above they are realistic about Mack and all that implies. They are hoping against hope that last year was not just VY and the requisite luck it takes to win the NC. They are steeling themselves for a return to the "most 9-win seasons among active coaches" woobie and are tuning up for the chorus of Greg Davis $ucks. A couple of these guys understand fully the unbelievable coaching job done last year in Norman. They also realize that the NC is only going to get them an extra star player or two, not 10.

Because some of the people mentioned are really decent people I got to the point of having to console them in the early 00's with tales of being a Sooner fan under Blake and She$6*(4#3^urger. They know that as long as Mack and UT continue to double down on the "Texas kids" card and forego the national scene they will be relegated to a trophy every few decades with some individual awards thrown in along the way. I really did not understand the pent up frustration these poor souls had until UT won that Rose Bowl. It's like they have been constipated their entire adult lives and now they've found the ex-lax. I've become a much better Sooner fan having lived amongst these people.

The A&M fans are something entirely different in so many ways that they will have to wait for their own post.

[devOUt]

Innovative power running scheme? Now there's an oxymoron. I like the part about running over lighter, faster defenses though. It brings AD to mind.

I'm not predicting a blow out by either team but I like our chances to win. I like our steady improvement over the past year and look for it to continue throughout this season. I like knowing that several key players return. I like knowing that Schmitty will be in charge of our players for the next 3 1/2 months. I like knowing that VY is gone and will be replaced by a qb with very little experience at the RRS. I even like our open date the week before the texas game. Most of all, I like it when arrogance returns to the texas fan base. It makes it so much more fun to beat them back down.

[sooneron]

I'm having a hard time understanding why all these Texas fans keep saying our defense was horrible last year. In Total Defense, OU was ranked 13th last year, three whole spots below Texas.
Which is pretty fuggin good compared to how much the O was on the field!

[Harry Beanbag]

Which is pretty fuggin good compared to how much the O was on the field!


Exactly. The offense was a disaster for most of the season, the defense was fine.

[suncoastsooner7]

I'm having a hard time understanding why all these Texas fans keep saying our defense was horrible last year. In Total Defense, OU was ranked 13th last year, three whole spots below Texas.


Might have also missed where OU was the #3 rushing defense and they were 33rd.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

i'm just so tired of hearing that people beat our defense because of the scheme. they beat it because of the weaknesses of the players in the scheme. they beat it because they are able to see that weakness on film that they are able to feast on for a half. its one of the main reason pokey state loves playing us at the end of the year - all that film and all that practice time.

the interesting thing about last year was it was the first time since 2000 where we have seen our secondary get better as the season progressed.

[NormanPride]

i'm just so tired of hearing that people beat our defense because of the scheme. they beat it because of the weaknesses of the players in the scheme. they beat it because they are able to see that weakness on film that they are able to feast on for a half. its one of the main reason pokey state loves playing us at the end of the year - all that film and all that practice time.

the interesting thing about last year was it was the first time since 2000 where we have seen our secondary get better as the season progressed.

You called it, too. I didn't believe you until the Tech game where we did pretty well. "Holy crap, jkm was right. Son of a bitch." :D

[FaninAma]

On offense Mack is going to have to go back to depending on Greg Davis' game planning which is a huge advantage for OU. No longer will they have VY, the equivalent of an on-the-field Rainman, to freelance their sorry asses out of trouble.

[Texas Golfer]

I think it's funny how Whorns continue to try and disguise their emotions with resemblance of facts. He wants to win so he'll try and justify his desires with pros from the Whorns and cons from the Sooners.

I want to see how this Whorn is going to justify their loss to the Sooners this fall with his "facts".

[The Consumate Showman]

The thing that makes Sexat's offensive ranking so funny is that they were playing the likes of Texas State, Rice, and other weaklings and beating them 63-0, While OU was playing legit non-conference schedules. I've said it again and again, if you want to succeed in any sport, you must get yourself accustomed to playing better teams. Thsi is why teams like loSur, K-state, and Nebbish aren't going to be competing for a NC any time soon...

We saw last year that Radio was INDEED the heart of Saxet's team, not even tehas fans can dispute that. Without him, they would have had losses at tOSU and loSur. Let's face it, Mack is interested in making his employers feel good about him having a HUGE contract and to do that, he goes out and scores 60+ on weaker teams to help boost their statistical numbers. All he ahs to do is point at a sheet that says his O has gotten better every year. I have a "warm" feeling that this year, things will be changing. Sexat will still win games, but expect to see more 21-13, 17-10, 24-21 scores this year and not the 65-0 variety.

I haven't seen their schedule, but I imagine they have some cream puffs....

[yermom]

well, Nebraska is going to USuCk this year... that's a lot ballsier than Maine

Texass doesn't have awful RBs but no VY makes things a LOT easier to deal with

hopefully our LBs aren't blocking each other for Charles this year though :(

[TexasLidig8r]

The thing that makes Sexat's offensive ranking so funny is that they were playing the likes of Texas State, Rice, and other weaklings and beating them 63-0, . . .
I haven't seen their schedule, but I imagine they have some cream puffs....

Point of order!

Texas did not play Texas State last year.. that was our parochial, sheep lovin' aggy.

I'm trying to recall who Texas non-conference schedule included.. it escapes me... who? OH! That's right... Swing State Aggy... before 105,000 drunken, in-bred midwesterners at the infamous SHOE.. at night where they hadn't lost since Hitler was in the Chancellory (or some such non-sense).. which made Texas the only team to beat TWO BCS teams last year.

[yermom]

blah blah blah

maybe if tOSU had found their QB before that game, it would have been different ;)


VY was your savior though it will be funny to see what you guys look like without Radio out there

[Soonerman08]

Let's see here........alright here we go Larry Birdine, CJ Ah You, John Williams, Calvin Thibodeaux, Rufus Alexander, Zach Latimer, Demario Plessant, Reggie Smith, DJ Wolfe, Jason Carter, Carl Pendleton, and Darrien Williams. Those players are our proven commodities. Seems like a strong corps for a defense. Lendy Holmes looks to be a great player as does Nic Harris. Curtis Lofton has shown promise. I would say our defense will be pretty freakin awesome. I am not to sure how Whorns can argue about our defense not being good. I watched the Holiday Bowl on DVD again and was watching our defense and the playcalling was right on, problem in 4 situations was the pressure up front (the tackling) cost us two 4th down situations. I watched Reggie Smith and Lendy Holmes both throughout Spring Practices and they seem to be very good lockdown corners. From the Red-White game I saw the play where Thompson hauled in the deep pass from Bomar, Smith was right next to him the whole time, the only thing I think Reggie needs to work a bit on is his aggressiveness. Other than that he is a very promising cornerback, and has a knack for picking off passes.

[TexasLidig8r]

maybe if tOSU had found their QB before that game, it would have been different ;)


VY was your savior though it will be funny to see what you guys look like without Radio out there

Maybe not... the stats from the game were....

RUSHING: Ohio State- Smith, Troy 13-27; Zwick, Justin 5-11;
PASSING: Ohio State-Zwick, Justin 9-15-0-66; Smith, Troy 5-11-0-78.

Pretty comparable.

Without Vince, the Texas offense will be different.... less zone read... more I back, options, short, safe passing game emphasized.

I do know.. this year's game with OU promises to be competitive as hell.

[yermom]

sorry, i meant might have been

the tOSU defense backing off so that VY could work his magic didn't help much either

[TMcGee86]

If the rest of the Big 12 has us figured out, and has adjusted their personnel accordingly, and 2000-03 was just us being able to surprise teams with our fancy schemes...

Why then have we only lost (legitimately) ONE regular season Big 12 game since 2003.

Silly, silly whorn. :rolleyes:

[TexasLidig8r]

sorry, i meant might have been

the tOSU defense backing off so that VY could work his magic didn't help much either

Ohio State defensed Vince pretty well after the 1st Quarter. They dropped their backers a bit, cut off the running lanes and their linebackers had enough speed to make Vince try to beat them with his arm...

Fortunately, Vince threw for 270 yards and two touchdowns.

This year's Texas - OU game should be a close, low scoring, hard fought, to the wire game....

[yermom]

you have to pressure him, didn't they learn anything in NCAA '06? ;)


This year's Texas - OU game should be a close, low scoring, hard fought, to the wire game....

sounds good... as long as the good guys win ;)

[OUstudent4life]

How texas fans sound now = how OU fans sounded after we won the NC.

I just want to see OU and texas play a coupla' games before I start saying who is gonna beat who.

Or is that whom is going to be who? Who...whom? crap. Whom...whom?

Guh.

[Stanley1]

OU 56
ut 0

:)

[picasso]

I do hope Texas fans realize that you need some luck and good fortune to win a national title. their memories really can't be that short can they?

[Harry Beanbag]

I do hope Texas fans realize that you need some luck and good fortune to win a national title. their memories really can't be that short can they?


Well, 35 years is a long time. :texan:

[Herr Scholz]

Yeah well they're the only ones in the nation who feel good about the Whorns chances against OU.
So, when UT is ranked ahead of OU in all polls before the game in October, your argument will be what?

[The Consumate Showman]

Point of order!

Texas did not play Texas State last year.. that was our parochial, sheep lovin' aggy.

I'm trying to recall who Texas non-conference schedule included.. it escapes me... who? OH! That's right... Swing State Aggy... before 105,000 drunken, in-bred midwesterners at the infamous SHOE.. at night where they hadn't lost since Hitler was in the Chancellory (or some such non-sense).. which made Texas the only team to beat TWO BCS teams last year.


WETAWD, I gave VY props for that, but it ain't gonna happen again....mark that down whorns.....tOSU is gonna beat you guys like a drum....35-7...

[Herr Scholz]

What I saw last year was Mack's coaching getting UT in 3rd or 4th-and-long situations, and Vince's legs getting UT out of them.

Vince ran for 45 yards and threw for 241 last year. Your analysis didn't happen at all.

[yermom]

that game was an anomaly ;)

[Herr Scholz]

Rookie QB this year means Macky will have to go back to coaching instead of letting the QB just drop back and run it.
Please explain how Vince threw for 3,000 yards last year and ran for only 1,000 if this was the offense.

[mojohornfan]

Please explain how Vince threw for 3,000 yards last year and ran for only 1,000 if this was the offense.


Talking to sooners = talking to a wall, scholz. Give it up!

[Herr Scholz]

tOSU is gonna beat you guys like a drum....35-7...
Not gonna happen.

http://pubpages.unh.edu/~nsn/cs403/project/images/bush.jpg

[TexasLidig8r]

WETAWD, I gave VY props for that, but it ain't gonna happen again....mark that down whorns.....tOSU is gonna beat you guys like a drum....35-7...

If we only score 7 points against a defense which lost NINE starters at home... in the heat of September..

It's gonna be a long...... long...... long..... year.

[mojohornfan]

WETAWD, I gave VY props for that, but it ain't gonna happen again....mark that down whorns.....tOSU is gonna beat you guys like a drum....35-7...


I remember you saying that before we played suc!

[Scott D]

Maybe not... the stats from the game were....

RUSHING: Ohio State- Smith, Troy 13-27; Zwick, Justin 5-11;
PASSING: Ohio State-Zwick, Justin 9-15-0-66; Smith, Troy 5-11-0-78.

Pretty comparable.

Without Vince, the Texas offense will be different.... less zone read... more I back, options, short, safe passing game emphasized.

I do know.. this year's game with OU promises to be competitive as hell.

to be fair Lid, one of them was coming off of a suspension that began before their bowl game the prior season.

[Herr Scholz]

to be fair Lid, one of them was coming off of a suspension that began before their bowl game the prior season.
Troy Smith will get another shot in Austin. And before you give the O'brien award to him already, I would like to point out that he played the entire game in their other loss to Penn St. and a putrid Notre Dame defense in the Fiesta Bowl made him look better than he really is.

[picasso]

you'll miss Vincenzo and you know it.

[Harry Beanbag]

If we only score 7 points against a defense which lost NINE starters at home... in the heat of September..

It's gonna be a long...... long...... long..... year.


I'm okay with that. :mack:

[mojohornfan]

I'm okay with that. :mack:


You guys need to worry about Oregon...AT Oregon before you bring up tosu at Austin. Both games should be worth the price of admission!

[n8v_ndn]

Please explain how Vince threw for 3,000 yards last year and ran for only 1,000 if this was the offense.

1) vy's improved passing ability on the short and medium routes.
However, consider how many total plays were Zone Read or some variation of Young waiting for receivers to clear out before running vs. dedicated passing attacks where he was expected to pass 85% or more of the time.

2) Better WR play
Having fast receivers benefitting from the threat of a scramble can work wonders when it comes to getting open. This equals being open with lots of vacant real estate. How many short/medium completions went for big yards vs. long bombs down the field?

3) Bolstered rushing attack, with the addition of a better stable of RBs.
Better RB's to share the rushing yards= lower rushing yards for Radio.

Face it, the majority of the biggest moments for this O were wily nily scrambles by Sidearm McWonderlic, hence the earlier characterization.

[Herr Scholz]

Face it, the majority of the biggest moments for this O were wily nily scrambles by Sidearm McWonderlic, hence the earlier characterization.
I will grant you that the threat of him running helped our passing game. However, his 325 passing attempts vs. 155 rushing attempts don't support the rest of your thread. The oft repeated misconception that our offense was "willy nilly" scrambles is wholly innacurate.

[picasso]

I will grant you that the threat of him running helped our passing game. However, his 325 passing attempts vs. 155 rushing attempts don't support the rest of your thread. The oft repeated misconception that our offense was "willy nilly" scrambles is wholly innacurate.
very true, and I'll be the first to admit I never thought Vince could become such a threat with his arm. still, your comeback against oSu, and Vince's freakish ability to scramble was the ingredient that worked best for you guys. Especially against USC.
take away his legs (like we did in '04) and it's a different story. you guys are back to this world on offense in '06. sorry.:)

[westcoast_sooner]

Fumbles Mcscrambles made that team last year. The fact that ANY UT fan thinks that they will roll into 2006 and have no drop off at QB is amazing. They do return some quality starters on OL, and on D, but anyone that can pressure their QB during the first few games will have an edge, IMO. This guy will at most be a RS Frosh - talented maybe, but still a Freshman. Remember how RB was for the first several games, and even how he looked immature at the end of last season. They aren't seriously thinking that Colt McWhatever is the second coming of Peter the one-game-a-year Great, are they?

Their D returns some solid players, and our OL is somewhat suspect going into the season. However, I think with some seasoning through the first few games, and a healthy AD, a healthy Bomar, we should come out on top.

[shavedmarmoset]

I will grant you that the threat of him running helped our passing game. However, his 325 passing attempts vs. 155 rushing attempts don't support the rest of your thread. The oft repeated misconception that our offense was "willy nilly" scrambles is wholly innacurate.

Dude, 155 rushing attempts is a LOT of rushes for a QB. I'm not sure if you remember, but the play your gangstas won the NC on was a run, not a pass. Maybe not a willy nilly scramble but nonetheless, it was very important throughout the year. I hope Okie st. beats you guys this year and I hope the University of Texas gets hit by a meteor.

That said, good luck in October!

[rhombic21]

What changed between 2003-2005 was players.

That's it. It has nothing to do with schemes or gameplanning. If we'd have had Jason White, Mark Clayton, Jamal Brown, Dan Cody, Antonio Perkins, Brodney Pool, Derrick Strait, Tommie Harris, and Teddy Lehman, we'd have rolled Texas last year too. We lost an insane amount of talent over the two seasons prior to last year, and it finally caught up to us, like it does to most programs.

The only solid theory that you could make is that OU is starting to have some of the problems that Texas did in terms of recruting highly rated guys that never develop, or who never even see the field. Guys like Tony Cade, Mo Dampeer, Akim Millington, Brandon Keith, Tristen Ross, and Quentin Cheaney either didn't pan out, or in Cheaney's case, never progressed to a Division 1A level. Prior to 2005, we've always had younger guys step up and replace those who graduated/left early (Perkins replacing Andre Woolfolk, Pool replacing Everage, Clayton, Jones and Wilson replacing Savage, Fagan and Norman, Jones/Works replacing Quentin, Lehman replacing Calmus, etc...). That didn't happen in 2005, largely because of the well documented problems of the 2003 class. We can recover from that class being a bust, but it set us back a year because we got stung with inexperience by some pretty good teams early in the year last year. But if it becomes a systematic problem, then we'll have something to be concerned about.

The other thing is that we really got blindsided by injuries. Chris Chester is going to be a first day draft pick at center, and he got injured against KState, and didn't come back until late in the year, and wasn't at full strength when he did. Bush broke his hand. ooper got hurt the week before UCLA, or he might have played in that game, and then was lost for the year at Tech. Joseph battled injury problems throughout the middle part of the year. And losing Akim Millington the week of the TCU game was essentially like an injury in that it blindsided the coaching staff. Birdine and Williams both got hurt really early in the season, which coupled with Dotson's academic issues crippled our DE depth. Dusty was coming off a major injury at the start of the year, and wasn't 100% until conference play. Walker got hurt in the preseason, which really hurt our secondary, plus Bassey was hurt during the Texas game. Rankins and Wilson, our only two Senior WRs, both were bothered by injuries all year, and Rankins was also our primary return specialist. Ingram missed the UCLA game with the pulled hamstring, and Latimer fought shoulder problems from the Nebraska game on. Bomar was banged up off and on all year, especially in the middle part of the season (Texas, Kansas, Texas A+M). Then you had Peterson and Hickson both getting injured at the HB slot, which put even more pressure on a banged up Bomar.

None of that stuff had anything to do with any kind of system or changing conditions. They were just freak things that happened to hit us all at once.

[goingoneight]

dude's got a good point there... OU 2006 could be a giant boom, or a slight bust. I would rather drop a season loss than be embarassed in a title game again, though... If I had my way.

[MiccoMacey]

In all fairness, some of what he says is true.

But the part that makes this a fluff piece is that all the things he says about OU are in the negative, doom-and-gloom category. As if we can't have any more success than we've already enjoyed.

All the things he says about Texas are in the positive, up-and-coming category. As if they were still on the rise.

What all this fails to take in is that if we have been "caught" by all the other schools, why are we still beating them?

Even as bad a year as we had last year, we still only lost to Tech and Texas. No one else in our conference beat us. If we are this easy to figure out, we'd have been 3-5 in conference. That didn't happen.

Last year was a result of having all-world talent play for us for waaay too long...eventually it'll catch up with you (ask Miami). Our reserves and back-ups, coupled with the bad recruiting class or two, put is in a very bad situation.

I see it as the anamoly, not the trend. Although we may still feel some backlash this year, we will be favored to compete for the South division against Texas once again.

[Oldnslo]

Okay. Last year wasn't about Radio. It was all the scheme. Devised by Mack and Co.

See, Radio hardly contributed to the whole saxeT phenomenon last year. Bit player, at best. It was all coaching.

What.eva.

[TheGodfather889]

Well, I must say if you're gonna post here atleast you're the most unbiased Horn here.

[Duke o Brewery]

OU - 26
ut - 14

[AzianSooner]

F,,ck Texas. I can't way to see them whorns cry in Oct.

[stoopified]

I think the title to this thread was misleading.True it should be HORN WETDREAMHook 'em Hook 'em

[Herr Scholz]

very true, and I'll be the first to admit I never thought Vince could become such a threat with his arm. still, your comeback against oSu, and Vince's freakish ability to scramble was the ingredient that worked best for you guys. Especially against USC.
take away his legs (like we did in '04) and it's a different story. you guys are back to this world on offense in '06. sorry.:)
He ran well against OSU, no doubt (270 yards). But he also threw for 240 that game. And while he ran in the final 2 TDs in the Rose Bowl (which is very memorable), he drove them down the field both times with passes (threw for 267 that day vs. 200 in rushing). He was a dual threat all year and his arm actually carried us more of the season than did his legs (especially against your team as well as agaisnt tOSU).

Will our new QBs provide the rushing or passing threat VY did? Of course not, but they're more athletic and have better arms than you're giving them credit for. Snead in particular is every bit as athletic as Bomar, just less experienced.

[Herr Scholz]

Fumbles Mcscrambles made that team last year.
Didn't you just insult him and praise him within the confines of a 7-word sentence?


The fact that ANY UT fan thinks that they will roll into 2006 and have no drop off at QB is amazing.
The fact that you think any UT fan remotely thinks this is what's amazing.

[picasso]

He ran well against OSU, no doubt (270 yards). But he also threw for 240 that game. And while he ran in the final 2 TDs in the Rose Bowl (which is very memorable), he drove them down the field both times with passes (threw for 267 that day vs. 200 in rushing). He was a dual threat all year and his arm actually carried us more of the season than did his legs.

Will our new QBs provide the rushing or passing threat VY did? Of course not, but they're more athletic and have better arms than you're giving them credit for. Snead in particular is every bit as athletic as Bomar, just less experienced.
my lord man, I know that. it's like a broken record player here.:confused:
my point is, put any other QB in that situation and they probably won't be able to pass and run with the ability to win the game.

[Herr Scholz]

That said, good luck in October!
Hopefully we're both undefeated for our game (get over the Oregon and tOSU stumbling blocks). Nothing's better than two top-5 teams playing in the RRS.

[Herr Scholz]

my point is, put any other QB in that situation and they probably won't be able to pass and run with the ability to win the game.
So, you're saying we lose those games this year because we don't have VY?
You're assuming the game plan would be the same. Our young QBs won't be asked to put the team on their backs this year like with Vince. All they have to do is spread the ball around to our numerous playmakers and not turn it over.

[soonerhubs]

BLah Blah Blah, Our coaches are immuned to reloading!
Okay Herr, let's be realistic here, Reloading at QB is going to be a detriment your team whether you like it or not.

- New schemes will come to pass, but I highly doubt those rookies who've never taken a snap in a game will be immediate prodigies.

[Herr Scholz]

Okay Herr, let's be realistic here, Reloading at QB is going to be a detriment your team whether you like it or not.

- New schemes will come to pass, but I highly doubt those rookies who've never taken a snap in a game will be immediate prodigies.
It will be a difficult transition for us. I'm not ready to write our season off just yet though if you'll excuse me for that. We've won the RRS several times over the past 15 years with a FR QB: Gardere, Brown, Applewhite.

We have talent and depth across the board. Your team has chinks in its armor as well.

[soonerhubs]

Well that's fair enough, but go ahead and write your season off. ;) :D Save your energy.

[Herr Scholz]

Well that's fair enough, but go ahead and write your season off. ;) :D Save your energy.
You don't realize how blockheaded I am and optimistic. I'm immune to negative talk. I'm a Cubs fan after all. ;)

[soonerhubs]

You don't realize how blockheaded I am and optimistic. I'm immune to negative talk. I'm a Cubs fan after all. ;)
heh

[n8v_ndn]

I will grant you that the threat of him running helped our passing game. However, his 325 passing attempts vs. 155 rushing attempts don't support the rest of your thread. The oft repeated misconception that our offense was "willy nilly" scrambles is wholly innacurate.

So increased passing attempts vs. fewer rushing attempts CANNOT be explained by any of these points I made:

- improved passing ability on the short and medium routes
- better WR play
- bolstered rushing attack, with the addition of a better stable of RBs

:rolleyes: okkay....

And as I said earlier, 'the majority of the biggest moments for this O were wily nily scrambles by Sidearm McWonderlic'...this does NOT mean that scrambles are the norm (the biggest moments do not happen on every play), merely the calling card or signature.

[Herr Scholz]

And as I said earlier, 'the majority of the biggest moments for this O were wily nily scrambles by Sidearm McWonderlic'...
And as I've pointed out, Vince's biggest plays against OU and tOSU were passes, not runs. Those were the two biggest games of the year aside from the Rose Bowl.

If if you're trying to describe the entire season's offense based on one long run vs. OSU and two scrambles at the end of the Rose Bowl, you're not being intellectually honest.

[footballfanatic]

What a load of $%^&. texASS got lucky to beat Michigan in the Rose Bowl 2 years back and then rode 1 single person (mr. Wonderlickit) to the Rose Bowl where the defense got exposed but they did step up with mr. Wonderlickit and win. They had 1 weapon last year and he's gone. Rookie QB this year means Macky will have to go back to coaching instead of letting the QB just drop back and run it. That doesn't bode well for texASS. It is interesting that all of the former texASS coaches were so bad in this guy's eyes but all the new ones are brilliant. Typical load of shorthorn ^%&#.

No team could win the NC with "one weapon." If it was the case, it doesn't say much for OU or the rest of the NCAA, for that matter.

[RedstickSooner]

Man. When a moron is a right, a moron sure is right.

It was *totally* the element of surprise. Nobody had seen our ninja-sweet offense (with its ninja-sweet ninja formation, no less) nor our insane, attacking defense. Caught opponents totally by surprise, almost like the invention of the forward pass.

Which is why we TOTALLY pwned Tejas in 1999. What was the score, like, three hundred to negative eight? Every year since then, the game has gotten tighter & tighter.

This dude is a genius. ESPN should hire him, if Sports Illustrated doesn't snatch him up first.

[Vaevictis]

I will grant you that the threat of him running helped our passing game. However, his 325 passing attempts vs. 155 rushing attempts don't support the rest of your thread. The oft repeated misconception that our offense was "willy nilly" scrambles is wholly innacurate.

Not that I am certain that you are wrong, but I wonder exactly how many of those 325 passes were really scrambling with a release at or just before the line of scrimmage. That seemed to be a HUGE part of his game; he was so fast on the run that someone on the secondary had to commit one way or the other *before* he crossed the line, and he could pass or run as appropriate.

[n8v_ndn]

If if you're trying to describe the entire season's offense based on one long run vs. OSU and two scrambles at the end of the Rose Bowl, you're not being intellectually honest.

Biggest moments and biggest plays do not make up and entire season's worth of offense, how do you not get that?

[jackal42601]

Fellow Sooners it's simple we still KICK Hook 'em A$$ and begin a new streak.

[Partial Qualifier]

The fact is, Stoops made Texas better. He forced Mack to stop hiring his good-ole-buddies as coordinators and he struck gold with Chizik.

Texas' D may have laid an egg in the Rose Bowl but they had lightning in a bottle with VY to bail them out. VY was their offensive saviour of the century but Texas' D is why they made it to the rose bowl and we can expect their D to be almost-as-good this year.

VY was the one guy in the world who could add life to the Greg Davis offense. So now they're back to the same old situation at QB. It should feel familiar to them; They'll leave all the offensive starters in 'til 4 minutes left in the game vs. North Texas and Rice and Sam Houston State to pad the score..

wait a minute: Sam Houston State?? :eek:

I like how they've forgotten what a RS Freshman QB looks like. They'll get beaten by their one strong OOC opponent, and OU will feast on that rookie QB like he's a State Fair Turkey Leg. Hello Holiday Bowl.

[Herr Scholz]

Biggest moments and biggest plays do not make up and entire season's worth of offense, how do you not get that?
I was refuting the statement that Texas' offense was primarily scrambling by Vince. That's simply not true. Vince threw for 3K and ran for 1K, not the other way around. Vince beat most teams with his arm last year, not his legs.