Who cares if Al Gore invented the internet?

[OUstudent4life]

The government's goal was the iPod (http://www.engadget.com/2006/04/20/bush-government-research-developed-ipod/)

if Bush says it, it MUST be true! :D;):D;):D;):D;)

[OUAndy1807]

was it said in jest?

[OUAndy1807]

from a similar speech:
And so here are two ideas that I intend to work with Congress on to make sure that we're still the technological capital of the world -- for the benefit of our people, by the way, so that the standard of living in America continues to improve for everybody.

One is that we must increase federal support for vital basic research.

I don't know whether you realize it or not, but the Internet began as a Defense Department project to improve military communications. In other words, that was an area where the federal government spent research money. And out of that research and development came the Internet, which has substantially change the way we live.

The iPod, interestingly enough, was built on years of government- funded research in microdrive storage and electrochemistry and signal compression
.
Isn't that interesting? I find it interesting.

In other words, investment at the federal level in research has led to practical applications which improved the lives of our citizens.

[OUAndy1807]

From the actual speech:
Here's another interesting example of where basic research can help
change quality of life or provide practical applications for people. The
government funded research in microdrive storage, electrochemistry and
signal compression. They did so for one reason: It turned out that those
were the key ingredients for the development of the Ipod. I tune into the
Ipod occasionally, you know? (Laughter.) Basic research to meet one set of
objectives can lead to interesting ideas for our society. It helps us
remain competitive. So the government should double the commitment to the
most basic -- critical research programs in the physical sciences over the
next 10 years. I look forward to Congress to doubling that commitment.

[SoonerBorn68]

Who cares if Al Gore invented the internet?

I don't, as long as I get credit for planning the D-Day invasion. :D

[OklahomaTuba]

The government's goal was the iPod (http://www.engadget.com/2006/04/20/bush-government-research-developed-ipod/)

if Bush says it, it MUST be true! :D;):D;):D;):D;)

Problem is, Bush didn't say that. :D

[OUstudent4life]

Oh, c'mon. I've got to take SOME shots :D. However roundabout they are.

I DO wish that the government, and this goes for any administration, would back up the "basic research is the key to our economy" claims that are always made during a trip to a university that conducts basic research.

'cause for once, they're right.

...of course, we on the other side could probably do better to try and get products based on that basic research to the market a wee bit faster...but the dropoff in innovation isn't OUR fault. Oh no. Not us. Nothing to see here. :D

[TopDawg]

Problem is, Bush didn't say that. :D

Similar to Al Gore in that respect.

[OUAndy1807]

BLITZER: I want to get to some of the substance of domestic and international issues in a minute, but let's just wrap up a little bit of the politics right now.
Why should Democrats, looking at the Democratic nomination process, support you instead of Bill Bradley, a friend of yours, a former colleague in the Senate? What do you have to bring to this that he doesn't necessarily bring to this process?
GORE: Well, I will be offering -- I'll be offering my vision when my campaign begins. And it will be comprehensive and sweeping. And I hope that it will be compelling enough to draw people toward it. I feel that it will be.
But it will emerge from my dialogue with the American people. I've traveled to every part of this country during the last six years. During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system.

[OklahomaTuba]

Similar to Al Gore in that respect.

Actually, he did say that. See above.

[soonerscuba]

What Al Gore said was for the most part, fairly accurate. People like to make fun of him for it, instead of being a ***** about it he should have vigorously defended his statement. For the record, Kahn and Cerf publicly defended his statement for him.

Kudos to Bush for stating the need for basic research.

[crawfish]

Why should we let mere facts get in the way of a good negative soundbite?

[OUAndy1807]

What Al Gore said was for the most part, fairly accurate. People like to make fun of him for it, instead of being a ***** about it he should have vigorously defended his statement. For the record, Kahn and Cerf publicly defended his statement for him.

Kudos to Bush for stating the need for basic research.
That's kind of my take on the thing. What Gore said is basically true, but he was making the statement to bolster himself. Bush basically said "gov't research is useful to everyone because the technology trickles down to the average American consumer" and people jump on it. He didn't even say that it was research under his administration that made it possible, or that it was research that rep's wanted and dem's fought.

Don't get me wrong, I think the guy is a dufus, but on this matter he's done nothing wrong.

And I'm not trying to argue or anything with Student4life, it's the internet media outlets that are being ridiculous.

[picasso]

I heard an Al Gore speech once but I didn't make it through without taking a nap and then cleaning my house.

[OUstudent4life]

oh, I'm not even trying to really start a major discussion. I just thought the quote was humorous/true. I've never really been a political crazy, except on healtcare/science issues. :D

[TopDawg]

Actually, he did say that. See above.

From snopes.com (http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp):


Despite the derisive references that continue even today, Al Gore did not claim he "invented" the Internet, nor did he say anything that could reasonably be interpreted that way. The "Al Gore said he 'invented' the Internet" put-downs were misleading, out-of-context distortions of something he said during an interview with Wolf Blitzer on CNN's "Late Edition" program on 9 March 1999. When asked to describe what distinguished him from his challenger for the Democratic presidential nomination, Senator Bill Bradley of New Jersey, Gore replied (in part):

During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system.

Clearly, although Gore's phrasing was clumsy (and perhaps self-serving), he was not claiming that he "invented" the Internet (in the sense of having designed or implemented it), but that he was responsible, in an economic and legislative sense, for fostering the development the I also invented the microphone technology that we now know as the Internet. To claim that Gore was seriously trying to take credit for the "invention" of the Internet is, frankly, just silly political posturing that arose out of a close presidential campaign. Gore never used the word "invent," and the words "create" and "invent" have distinctly different meanings — the former is used in the sense of "to bring about" or "to bring into existence" while the latter is generally used to signify the first instance of someone's thinking up or implementing an idea.

That part I bold-faced is key. I guess you can interpret what Gore said however you want, but I'll stay over here with the reasonable people.

[Beano's Fourth Chin]

From snopes.com (http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp):



That part I bold-faced is key. I guess you can interpret what Gore said however you want, but I'll stay over here with the reasonable people.

Also from snopes:

many of the components of today's Internet came into being well before Gore's first term in Congress began in 1977.

I guess we know what he was doing before he ran for office, now.

[OUAndy1807]

You highlighted the opinion of a contributor for Snopes.

Comparing the two quotes is like comparing apples and oranges. The quote from Gore was spun against him, and it worked because he was self-promoting. Bush's comment was nothing like that, he wasn't even trying to push the republican party. People are trying to reach and pin it on him out of context.

If Bush's statement was anything like Gore's, don't you think the media would be attacking him like the did Gore? He's not exactly the most popular guy and the media tends to like to pile on.

[OklahomaTuba]

From snopes.com (http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp):



That part I bold-faced is key. I guess you can interpret what Gore said however you want, but I'll stay over here with the reasonable people.

I'll do a favor for you and post the quote again, since you said he never said it.


During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet.

I am sure I can find the audio of it if you would like?

[dolemitesooner]

TUBA WHO ASKED YOU?

[OklahomaTuba]

TUBA WHO ASKED YOU?
You did.

[dolemitesooner]

BULL ****

[TopDawg]

You highlighted the opinion of a contributor for Snopes.

You take Tuba's opinion about liberals, and I'll take this snopes contributors' opinion and we'll see which is least biasesd.


Comparing the two quotes is like comparing apples and oranges.

If you'll read what I'm saying more closely you'll see that I'm not comparing the quotes. Tuba said that Bush didn't say what OUs4l (jokingly it seems) alleged he said. I was saying that the same is true of those that allege that Gore said he invented the internet. Whether or not Gore was self-serving and Bush was not does not change the fact that neither of them said what some are accusing them of having said.

One problem is that the astonishingly large number of people who accuse Gore actually think it's true while the only people I've seen accusing Bush are joking (although I concede that there may be some out there who are not).

[OUAndy1807]

You take Tuba's opinion about liberals, and I'll take this snopes contributors' opinion and we'll see which is least biasesd.



If you'll read what I'm saying more closely you'll see that I'm not comparing the quotes. Tuba said that Bush didn't say what OUs4l (jokingly it seems) alleged he said. I was saying that the same is true of those that allege that Gore said he invented the internet. Whether or not Gore was self-serving and Bush was not does not change the fact that neither of them said what some are accusing them of having said.

One problem is that the astonishingly large number of people who accuse Gore actually think it's true while the only people I've seen accusing Bush are joking (although I concede that there may be some out there who are not).

whatever. I'm agreeing with Tuba here because I think he's right. Gore's quote being compared to Bush's is the message of the thread (read the first post)

As to the problem with the astonishingly large number of people being wrong, there's a simple explanation:
"The masses are asses"

so to sum up: I agree with you about Gore's quote being spun unfairly by people with an agenda, but I also think that anyone trying to use this quote against Bush clearly has an agenda.

and, I'm done here.

[TopDawg]

whatever. I'm agreeing with Tuba here because I think he's right.

...

so to sum up: I agree with you about Gore's quote being spun unfairly by people with an agenda,

Isn't that where Tuba and I disagree?

[OklahomaTuba]

Actually, you said Gore never said this:


During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet.

I was simply correcting you.

[TopDawg]

Actually, you said Gore never said this:



I was simply correcting you.

Show me where I said that.

[OklahomaTuba]

Might start at the beginning or top of the thread and read towards the end.

In response to Bush not saying something:

Similar to Al Gore in that respect.

And then your bolded qoute:

Al Gore did not claim he "invented" the Internet, nor did he say anything that could reasonably be interpreted that way.

And just for ****s and giggles, heres the quote again:

During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet.

[TopDawg]

Might start at the beginning or top of the thread and read towards the end.


Let me walk you through it, then, because you seem to get lost somewhere between the beginning and the end.

You said Bush didn't say the thing about Ipod's. Then I responded that he was similar to Gore in that respect, meaning that Gore never said he invented the internet.

Then you "proved" that Gore claimed he invented the interent by posting a quote in which Gore does not claim that he invented the internet. Another example of the type of facts you use in your arguments.

I never claimed, as you have accused me of claiming, that Gore did not say what he's been quoted as saying. I merely stated that people who think that what Gore said is the same as "I invented the internet" are wrong or unreasonable or both. That's why I boldfaced the thing that I did.

[OUstudent4life]

c'mon, peeps, this is s'posed to be a lighthearted thread. The Prez made a funny comment...I'm not saying Bush said he invented the iPod or anything, he said:


the government funded research in microdrive storage, electrochemistry and signal compression. They did so for one reason: It turned out that those were the key ingredients for the development of the iPod.

All that electrochemistry stuff you studied in Gen Chem I led up to the iPod, people!!! There were NO other applications! It's FUNNY! In a sad and nerdy way to me, 'cause I find stuff like this funny, but still...:D The government's WHOLE GOAL in funding all that research was the iPod!!!

I figured if I started this with a potshot at Gore's statement, more people would read it than if I was making fun of a Bushism in the subject. I guess I was right :O:D I never even really meant to compare the two. Law of unintended consequences, I guess...

[OklahomaTuba]

Then I responded that he was similar to Gore in that respect, meaning that Gore never said he invented the internet.

And this is why I am correcting you.

Because infact, Gore said this.



During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet.

[TopDawg]

And this is why I am correcting you.

Because infact, Gore said this.


Ok, well if you want to continue to claim that 2+2=5, I'll let you.

[OUstudent4life]

Can we get something out in the open real quick, just to make sure I'm not missing anything?

Tuba, you're saying "creating" = "inventing," right?

and TD disagrees?

[OklahomaTuba]

Thats your math, not mine.

[OUstudent4life]

Wait, whose math?

Who's on first?

...okay, NOW I'm just trying to be annoying. It's a boring day at work so far. :D

[OklahomaTuba]

Can we get something out in the open real quick, just to make sure I'm not missing anything?

Tuba, you're saying "creating" = "inventing," right?

and TD disagrees?

No, I am saying that this was Al Gore's quote.

TD seems to live in denial about this. Not sure why. The quote has been well known about for years. Yet he keeps going on and on saying that Gore didn't say this.

Well, the quote is very easy to read and understand.


During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet.

I wonder, whats the point in using the word initiative if he didn't claim to do anything?

[TopDawg]

Can we get something out in the open real quick, just to make sure I'm not missing anything?

Tuba, you're saying "creating" = "inventing," right?

and TD disagrees?

Sorry we mucked up your thread. That's the jist of our debate in a nutshell. Although "I created the internet" is still different than "I took the initiative in creating the internet" especially when you don't take into context the rest of the conversation.

I guess what I'm saying is that anyone who is okay with saying "Gore claims he invented the internet" should have no problems with you making similar claims about Bush's statement.

[OUstudent4life]

OK, now the extended discussion makes sense...you were both arguing from different starting points. My old speech/debate teacher would be angry, or something. Actually, he wouldn't care...:D And again, I'm not making claims that Bush invented the iPod, I'm making fun of the fact that he said that all government research into those electronic components was focused on making the iPod.

[TopDawg]

No, I am saying that this was Al Gore's quote.

TD seems to live in denial about this. Not sure why. The quote has been well known about for years. Yet he keeps going on and on saying that Gore didn't say this.

Well, the quote is very easy to read and understand.


I wonder, whats the point in using the word initiative if he didn't claim to do anything?

Tuba, you can continue to cloud your mistake by waving your hands wildly about, but just because you SAY I claim that Gore never said " During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet" does not make it true. I have openly admitted that he said that.

But he did not say "I invented the Internet." In fact, I'm not sure he ever used the words "invented" and Internet" in the same sentence. You continue to claim that he did, although he did not. You have shown a quote that appears to be close, but it is not the same thing.

Just to be clear, this is the same rationale you are using against OUs4l's allegations against Bush.

[OklahomaTuba]

In fact, I'm not sure he ever used the words "invented" and Internet" in the same sentence. You continue to claim that he did, although he did not.

I did? Where did I say this?

[Scott D]

where's yermom to hasslehoff this thread.

[OklahomaTuba]

Hmm, still not finding where I said Gore claimed to "invent" the internet.

[TopDawg]

I said Gore did not say he invented the Internet and you said:


Actually, he did say that. See above.

But you've failed to show where he said he invented the internet. All you've shown is where he said " During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet."

If you want to claim that what Gore said is the same as if he had said "I invented the Internet" then I think you should have no problem with someone claiming that what Bush said is the same as if he had said "The gov't's goal was the Ipod."

[OUstudent4life]

edit...never mind, I'll stop butting in and just watch...

[OklahomaTuba]

But you've failed to show where he said he invented the internet. All you've shown is where he said " During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet."

Wait a tick.

You just accused me of saying that Gore did "invent" the internet (which I never said BTW), and now your saying I failed to show where he said it?

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

[TopDawg]

Wait a tick.

You just accused me of saying that Gore did "invent" the internet (which I did not), and now your saying I failed to show where he said it?

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Tuba (referring to the claim that Bush said the gov't's goal was the Ipod): Bush did not say that.

Me (referring to the claim that Gore said he inventend the Internet): Similar to Gore in that respect.

Tuba (referring to a quote where Gore said he took the initiative in creating the Internet): Actually he did say that. See above.

This is interesting because it's kind of running parallel to the point of the debate (if it has a point). You never (at least in this thread) typed the words "Gore said he invented the internet" but you did type the words "Actually he did say that" in response to my claim that Gore did not say he invented the internet.

So while you continue to make the huge jump from what Gore said to what you want to claim he meant, you won't allow me to make the small step from what you said to what I want to claim you meant.

[TopDawg]

Unfortunately, it's not as slow a day for me at work so I'll have to leave for now. Always a pleasure, Tuba.

[OUstudent4life]

OK. Let's check the scorecard...

I started the thread with the "invented" comment in the subject.

Tuba says "bush didn't actually say that, either"

TD says "well, neither did Gore"

Tuba says "yes he did, see the above quote"

and now Tuba thinks it's funny that TD accused Tuba of saying Gore invented the internet, which granted Tuba didn't directly say but seemed to imply, and so it's funny that Tuba can't show where Gore said it?

So, really, who's on first :D?


edit...well, crud. TD beat me to the running commentary. Stupidest. Thread. Evar.

[OklahomaTuba]

I'm still trying to find where I claim Al Gore said he "invented" the internet!

[OklahomaTuba]

Oh, and no one ever answered what "I took the Initiative" means.

Got any ideas?

[OklahomaTuba]

OK. Let's check the scorecard...

I started the thread with the "invented" comment in the subject.

Tuba says "bush didn't actually say that, either"

TD says "well, neither did Gore"

Tuba says "yes he did, see the above quote"

and now Tuba thinks it's funny that TD accused Tuba of saying Gore invented the internet, which granted Tuba didn't directly say but seemed to imply, and so it's funny that Tuba can't show where Gore said it?

So, really, who's on first :D?


edit...well, crud. TD beat me to the running commentary. Stupidest. Thread. Evar.

You left out the part where TD actually denies Gore said that he created the internet, even after posting the quote that came right from Gore's mouth multiple times.

But the funniest part is where TD pings me for claiming something I never claimed, yet "infers" what I said based on a quote, which is exactly what he is arguing against in the first place defending Gore. Classic stuff, you can't make this stuff up.

[picasso]

my lord let it go.

[BeetDigger]

I used to think that Snopes was unbiased and just there to try to point out fact from fiction. But in the Gore debate, Snopes seems to go out of it's way to give Gore the benefit of the doubt at every point.


Despite the derisive references that continue even today, Al Gore did not claim he "invented" the Internet, nor did he say anything that could reasonably be interpreted that way. The "Al Gore said he 'invented' the Internet" put-downs were misleading, out-of-context distortions of something he said during an interview with Wolf Blitzer on CNN's "Late Edition" program on 9 March 1999. When asked to describe what distinguished him from his challenger for the Democratic presidential nomination, Senator Bill Bradley of New Jersey, Gore replied (in part):

During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system.

Clearly, although Gore's phrasing was clumsy (and perhaps self-serving), he was not claiming that he "invented" the Internet (in the sense of having designed or implemented it), but that he was responsible, in an economic and legislative sense, for fostering the development the I also invented the microphone technology that we now know as the Internet. To claim that Gore was seriously trying to take credit for the "invention" of the Internet is, frankly, just silly political posturing that arose out of a close presidential campaign. Gore never used the word "invent," and the words "create" and "invent" have distinctly different meanings — the former is used in the sense of "to bring about" or "to bring into existence" while the latter is generally used to signify the first instance of someone's thinking up or implementing an idea.


I am not trying to get into the debate about Gore vs. Bush. I am more interested in the point that Snopes is biased.

He specifically says that he created the Internet. And then Snopes says that "Clearly, although Gore's phrasing was clumsy (and perhaps self-serving), he was not claiming that he "invented" the Internet (in the sense of having designed or implemented it), but that he was responsible, in an economic and legislative sense, for fostering the development the I also invented the microphone technology that we now know as the Internet."

If Snopes wants to appear unbiased, perhaps they should change this to "Gore probably didn't mean to say he invented the Internet. He meant to imply that he helped increase funding for the Internet." because he clearly said "I took the initiative in creating (read: inventing) the Internet."