Anyone see the story about "Body armor" on the news last night?

[TopDaugIn2000]

That's our gig. We're manufacturing it. we RAWK.

[TopDaugIn2000]

link (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/body-armor3.htm)
we are the manufacturer
By early 2005 Naval Research Laboratory researchers had developed new flexible arm and leg protective armor for marines and soldiers optimizing blast protection, mobility, weight and comfort. This armor could be useful for vehicle crews, breaching parties in urban operations, security and support operations, sentry and checkpoint duty, and roadside patrols.

The armor is designed to reduce the likelihood of severe injuries by protecting against the large number of smaller blast fragments generated by blast weapons and improvised explosive devices. It provides NIJ Level IIA protection to meet this fragmentation objective, while also providing protection against blast pressure waves and thermal flash. Each arm guard weighs 1.6 pounds and attaches to the standard Interceptor armor vest. The pants weight 6.5 pounds including suspenders. The cost is estimated at $1000 per set in full-scale production. Current efforts are focused on scaling-up production and more extensive evaluation by interested units and warfighters in operational and training environments. Options for higher levels of protection are also available.

NRL, the Army Research Laboratory, FS Technology and Oklahoma State University produced this design. They combined information on blast weapon characteristics, combat casualty trends, advice from the military medical communities treating injured soldiers from Operations Enduring Freedom and Iraqi Freedom, soft armor materials ballistic testing, and warfighter feedback. The program is funded by the Office of Naval Research's "Tech Solutions" program office.

[GDC]

I heard a lot of the Marines are going without because it's too heavy and bulky.

[TopDaugIn2000]

another link (http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/issues/2005/oct/amid_bursting.htm)

The Marines were not entirely satisfied with APES. “It saved Marine lives,” said Daniel M. Fitzgerald, infantry combat equipment program manager at Marine Corps Systems Command. “But it also cut off circulation to arms, and it got hung up in turrets.”

To correct these problems, the Marines have worked with NRL, the Army Research Laboratory, FS Technology and Oklahoma State University to produce a second generation of body armor attachments.

Called QuadGard, this system also is worn with the Interceptor, but it extends protection to entire arms and legs. “The question was what was the appropriate level of protection for arms and legs,” Leimbach said. “We spent a lot of time trying to crack that nut.”

The QuadGard system is designed to reduce severe arm and leg injuries by protecting against the large number of small blast fragment generated by IEDs and other ordnance. Each arm guard, which attaches to the standard Interceptor vest, weighs 1.6 pounds, while the pants add another 6.5 pounds.

Marines wanted the set to be light and flexible enough for soldiers and Marines to shoot, run and climb while wearing it. It was tested extensively at Aberdeen Proving Ground, Md.

The set “looks cumbersome, but I will tell you that looks can be deceiving,” Leimbach said. “I ran the course wearing it. I even climbed up the cargo net and down the other side with no trouble at all.”

QuadGard, however, is heavy enough that it is not for all Marines, Leimbach conceded. But it is considered useful for vehicle crews, breaching parties in urban operations, security and support units, sentry and checkpoint duty, and roadside patrols.

The system was developed quickly to meet an urgent request early this summer from the II Marine Expeditionary Force, Leimbach said. II MEF has ordered 4,500 sets, with delivery to be completed in November.

The Marines developed a small SAPI to fit along both sides of the body within three weeks this summer. Sixty sets already have gone out to especially high-risk deployed units, Leimbach said, declining to name them on the basis of operational security. Another 500 sets will become available within the next couple of weeks, and an additional 10,000 will be produced as soon as possible, he said.

[TopDaugIn2000]

I heard a lot of the Marines are going without because it's too heavy and bulky.

we just got the first contract for "phase 5", which is for the marines. it has a lot of improvements for those reasons.

[TopDaugIn2000]

Version Four of the QuadGard is currently being fielded, but already the Corps has developed and is preparing to produce Version Five, which will offer even greater flexibility to the wearer and can be removed easily.

here (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0IBY/is_8_81/ai_n15699573)

[TopDaugIn2000]

Good article in the local paper about the Body Armor.

http://streaming.cnhi.zope.net/paulsvalleydailydemocrat/pdfsdone/eedition08272006/eedition08272006.pdf

look at page 1 & 3

If you can't get the link to open, go to http://www.paulsvalleydailydemocrat.com/eedition/local_story_238143608.html
and click on "PDF" to download

[homerSimpsonsBrain]

Somebody posted a link several months ago of some Haji's taking pot shots at the good guys in Iraq. Bad guys hit good guy a couple of time in the body and start hollerin "Alluh acbar" (sp). Then the guy pops up and runs for cover. Guys said something in arabic that I think roughly translates to "WTF???"

[Rhino]

Body armor! HUAH!

[StoopTroup]

Is there a plate that protects the boys?

[TopDaugIn2000]

no, but that issue has been raised




(teeheehee)

[sgtboz]

I've been following that story a little. I am an ex-soldier myself. That thing looks like a beast but it's better than taking a hot one. I hope the soldiers are still getting them overseas and that there is a budget for them. Are they pretty expensive? It looks like it could be (but still well worth it!).

[TopDaugIn2000]

the balistic material ALONE for ONE SUIT is $800.

[Jerk]

Will this stuff stop a small caliber pistol bullet?

[sgtboz]

I'm sure topdaugh can speak better to it than I can but I believe it will stop a 9mm as well as .762 (standard M16/AK47 round approximately). It's main purpose though as I understand it is to protect the soldier's extremities from IED fragments at explosion.

[Jerk]

I'm sure topdaugh can speak better to it than I can but I believe it will stop a 9mm as well as .762 (standard M16/AK47 round approximately). It's main purpose though as I understand it is to protect the soldier's extremities from IED fragments at explosion.

It might stop a 7.62x39 with the trauma plate, but I doubt it.

There ain't no way it's stopping a 5.56 (M16 bullet) or 7.62x51 (M-60, M-14, M-240). Even if it did, the energy would severely wound/kill the target. Sure, it might stop 7.62 NATO after it goes into a person's chest and penetrates 7 or 8 inches, but does not puncture the shirt (does that count as a stop?)

ps- ak's and m16's don't shoot the same calibre or round...not even close.

[TopDaugIn2000]

It's main purpose though as I understand it is to protect the soldier's extremities from IED fragments at explosion.

that part is correct. as far as the actual bullet, I'm not sure. When I left, it was still in testing.

[Jerk]

It's a very nice flak jacket.

And probably very expensive too.

I hope it saves lives.

[OU4LIFE]

that's some pretty cool stuff.

[sgtboz]

Thanks for the clarification. I should have been more specific about the ballistics similarities in a broad sense and not the actual round. The global security website says it fragments up to a 7.62 mm round with a muzzle velocity of 2,750 feet per second. An AK47 is only about a third that to my understanding! This armor protection news article was of course talking about the OTV (outer tactical vest) and not the quadguard extremity protection gear.

Either way, the intent of the armor mentioned on the news is to protect primarily against extremity injuries. It attaches to the bulletproof vest.

The significant new threat brought on by Iraq is the vastly increased number of non-fatal injuries and particularly amputations brought about due to IED's. This new armor may help save lives which we can all hope and pray for but beyond that it should vastly improve the likelihood of the soldier remaining bodily intact!!

[TopDaugIn2000]

yes, it attaches to the exiting vest. but now they (Covercraft) are in the process of manufacturing a new, much lighter weight vest as well. Just before I left we did 16 samples to be sent out for testing, last I heard they were doing really well.

[Jerk]

Thanks for the clarification. I should have been more specific about the ballistics similarities in a broad sense and not the actual round. The global security website says it fragments up to a 7.62 mm round with a muzzle velocity of 2,750 feet per second. An AK47 is only about a third that to my understanding! This armor protection news article was of course talking about the OTV (outer tactical vest) and not the quadguard extremity protection gear.

Either way, the intent of the armor mentioned on the news is to protect primarily against extremity injuries. It attaches to the bulletproof vest.

The significant new threat brought on by Iraq is the vastly increased number of non-fatal injuries and particularly amputations brought about due to IED's. This new armor may help save lives which we can all hope and pray for but beyond that it should vastly improve the likelihood of the soldier remaining bodily intact!!

Thanks. I never meant to be rude and you didn't take it that way. There are vest which will stop a 7.52 NATO round (which is the standard machine gun round of the U.S. military- civilian version is called .308 Winchester). These vest, though, are enormous and bulky, making the wearer look like the Michelin Tire man. If someone were to make a vest with the capability to stop a 7.62 NATO round, without rendering the user to the mobility of a concete finisher knee deep in mud, then I'd be very impressed.

[sgtboz]

You obviously are very knowledgeable about this stuff!

Have you seen the new Dragonskin? I think it passed some recent round of important ballistic testing. Before then it was banned by the Army even though soldiers were buying it themselves. Commanders were having to force the gear to be turned in and not used.

Topdaug, about how long did it take to make one of those suits (the later version)? Are you still in Pauls Valley? I am an Ardmore native but live in Edmond now.

[TopDaugIn2000]

Topdaug, about how long did it take to make one of those suits (the later version)? Are you still in Pauls Valley? I am an Ardmore native but live in Edmond now.

Phase 5 had about 3 hours of labor in each suit.

I left there about 2 months ago, now working at Tinker.

[Jerk]

You obviously are very knowledgeable about this stuff!



No, not really. Maybe you're being sarcastic. I'm not an expert at all. I just think it would be amazing if 'body armor' was devoped which was light and flexable, and could stop a high-powered rifle round.

Like a 150 grain bullet traveling at 2700 feet per second...

Or a 55 grain bullet traveling at 3300 feet per second...

Again, even if the bullet is stopped, all of that energy has to go somewhere. Some body armor might stop a slow-moving 12 gauge slug with no penetration of the vest. The problem is, it might come to within a half-inch of contacting the person's spine after being shot into their chest. The round was stopped, but where does the energy go?

[Mjcpr]

WE MUST PROTECT THIS HOUSE!!!

[sgtboz]

No sarcasm intended at all. I've fired more rounds than I care to remember through an M16 (an amazing weapon) but grains/ballistics/etc. never really connected with me. I knew which was the business end and that's what really counts, I suppose!