Immigration Bill

[soonerhubs]

Any thoughts?
I'm seeing lots of protests accross the country. Salt Lake City was chuck full of protestors on both sides of the issue.

I've mixed feelings since I've got family on both sides as well.

What do I do? Edit: What should I think rather?

I've always thought, before I judge and Illegal immigrant I better make sure my ancestors got here legally, but then issues with health care and Medicaid sorta ruffle my tax paying feathers, so I don't know.

[soonerhubs]

We aint touching that with a 60 ft pole
I don't blame you.

[yermom]

more like tired from the other threads...

i haven't really been following the revisions though

i say if they want to be Americans, let them be Americans. pay taxes, be on the grid, etc...

i don't think being born here by illegal parents should make you a citizen though

[dolemitesooner]

here is a bilL i AM TRYING TO PASS

dOLEMITE BILL 1324Z

kIL THOSE MOTHER ****ERS
KILL THEM ON SITE
THEN THEY WONT COME IN OUR COUNTRY
UNLES THEY ARE LOOKING FOR A FIGHT

[jk the sooner fan]

the logistics of rounding all the ones that are already here and sending them back would be a night mare

personally i'd like to make them ALL taxpayers

then i'd like to see a barrier along the border to significantly reduce the number coming over illegally

and i'd like to make it a felony for a citizen to aide/abet in getting illegals over the border

and return those that get across without going thru proper channels

[StoopTroup]

Who is this Immigration Bill guy?

Pics?

[soonerhubs]

here is a bilL i AM TRYING TO PASS

dOLEMITE BILL 1324Z

kIL THOSE MOTHER ****ERS
KILL THEM ON SITE
THEN THEY WONT COME IN OUR COUNTRY
UNLES THEY ARE LOOKING FOR A FIGHT
Don't hold back Dolemite. I want to know how you REALLY feel. ;):twinkies:

[Viking Kitten]

Who is this Immigration Bill guy?

Pics?
I was totally thinking the SO needs a new troll when I saw the thread title.:D

[SicEmBaylor]

the logistics of rounding all the ones that are already here and sending them back would be a night mare

personally i'd like to make them ALL taxpayers

then i'd like to see a barrier along the border to significantly reduce the number coming over illegally

and i'd like to make it a felony for a citizen to aide/abet in getting illegals over the border

and return those that get across without going thru proper channels

Their tax money isn't going to cover the costs of the benefits they will recieve over a lifetime as Americans. It's a net loss for the American tax payer at a time when we need to look for ways to reduce costs not increase them.

Also, suddenly legalizing and putting 15+ million people on a track for citizenship creates a real risk of balkanization. It isn't just that they are here it's that they're here and they're not assimilating into American culture. Suddenly legalizing that many people is going to exacerbate the problem of having a huge segment of the population who have not adopted American culture and have no real loyalty to this country.

You're right that it's almost impossible to deport every illegal immigrant in the country, however we can deport those who break the law while they are here and we're not even doing that. Additionally, when authorities at any level do come into contact with illegal immigrants they should be turned over to ICE and the process for deportation should be streamlined and the number of deportations increased.

[dolemitesooner]

Don't hold back Dolemite. I want to know how you REALLY feel. ;):twinkies:
ok
This is my house, and you are a guest in it -
But please, leave when you are no longer welcome.
I will have no hesitation in using force,
For beneath my smile lies fear and hate.

[bri]

"Immigrant Bill" is my favorite Led Zepplin song.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/images/immigrant.gif

[BajaOklahoma]

I am really sad that they didn't just round up the people protesting today, ask them for their legal identification and send those unable to produce it back to Mexico.

And don't forget the cost of educating the kids. ESOL classes are expensive.

[SicEmBaylor]

I am really sad that they didn't just round up the people protesting today, ask them for their legal identification and send those unable to produce it back to Mexico.

And don't forget the cost of educating the kids. ESOL classes are expensive.

EXACTLY. Look at the trouble ICE has to go to in order to track down and detain small pockets of immigrants (like less than 100 at a time). And here the illegals have gone and rounded themselves up all neat and nice for ICE.

[yermom]

i'm really surprised this hasn't happened

maybe even some Born In East LA action ;)

[soonerhubs]

A funny thought came to me. The protestors here in Utah said they are staying home tomorrow and not buying anything. Does that mean those with medicaid and welfare checks won't be at the hospitals mooching our tax dollars away tomorrow in Utah as well?

Just a thought. :)

[SicEmBaylor]

A funny thought came to me. The protestors here in Utah said they are staying home tomorrow and not buying anything. Does that mean those with medicaid and welfare checks won't be at the hospitals mooching our tax dollars away tomorrow in Utah as well?

Just a thought. :)

Actually since they aren't out doing other things its probably more likely they'll be showing up at the ER for a nosebleed with no insurance expecting someone else to pay the dime.

[Jimminy Crimson]

How about we kill two birds with one stone.

Everyone hears the argument that nobody wants to work the jobs that illegals do. Okay, if that's the case, kick all the illegals out and get rid of welfare. You want some money, we've got jobs for you. Beyonce.

The end! :D

[SicEmBaylor]

How about we kill two birds with one stone.

Everyone hears the argument that nobody wants to work the jobs that illegals do. Okay, if that's the case, kick all the illegals out and get rid of welfare. You want some money, we've got jobs for you. Beyonce.

The end! :D

EXACTLY. I've never understood the argument that there are some jobs Americans won't do. If you are on welfare, some other government aid, homeless, or the like then why exactly are you being picky about what job you take?

[Jimminy Crimson]

Unless you're 100% disabled, get off your :twinkies: and work.

This goes for all of the Katrina people (that aren't still injured) who are still sucking off the gov't teat.

TIA!

[Jimminy Crimson]

...then why exactly are you being picky about what job you take?

Cuz they've got a guaranteed check coming on the 1st and 15th of every month. :mad:

[Jimminy Crimson]

I have a better solution to the illegal problem.

Let's keep all the illegals that are working.

Kick out all the welfare peeps and send them to Mexico!!!! :D

I am smart and stuff.

Take that, Vicente Fox!

[olevetonahill]

I have a better solution to the illegal problem.

Let's keep all the illegals that are working.

Kick out all the welfare peeps and send them to Mexico!!!! :D

I am smart and stuff.

Take that, Vicente Fox!

Take it another step
If you want your family to be US citizens , and you want to be in this country legally ? Join OUR Military serve 4 yrs then you get citizenship.
Nuff said :cool:

[PhxSooner]

A protest with supposedly 100K is gonna happen tomorrow here in Phoenix. High school principals are freaking out because it's state testing week, and if kids aren't in school taking the tests, they lose federal $$ and some seniors won't graduate. I'm not seeing the logic of skipping school to protest about lack of opportunity. Finishing school gives you that.:rolleyes:

[SicEmBaylor]

A protest with supposedly 100K is gonna happen tomorrow here in Phoenix. High school principals are freaking out because it's state testing week, and if kids aren't in school taking the tests, they lose federal $$ and some seniors won't graduate. I'm not seeing the logic of skipping school to protest about lack of opportunity. Finishing school gives you that.:rolleyes:

Because these people aren't the sharpest knife in the drawer. During the last round of protests they went out there protesting when the security-only House bill was dead in the Senate and the Senate Judiciary was putting out a bill that would have given amnesty and a track to citizenship for the 15+million immigrants already here.

I think their protests contributed to the hardening of resolve of enough Senate Republicans to oppose the bill that came out of the judiciary committee which presumably would have given illegal immigrants exactly what they wanted.

What sense that makes I don't know but they aren't helping their cause at all. If a student skips school to engage in these protests he should be suspened or better yet expelled.

[Jimminy Crimson]

Take it another step
If you want your family to be US citizens , and you want to be in this country legally ? Join OUR Military serve 4 yrs then you get citizenship.
Nuff said :cool:

that's a start :thumbs up:

[mrssoonerhubler]

What I don't understand is why we (and the politics) care if the high schoolers and Illegals protest. Their not registered to vote anyway.

[SicEmBaylor]

What I don't understand is why we (and the politics) care if the high schoolers and Illegals protest. Their not registered to vote anyway.

For several reasons,
In order for the Republican Party to have long term electoral viability they need to make inroads with one of the growing minority groups. Blacks are out because they are just too solid a voting block for the Democratic Party. A national Republican candidate would be doing well to get 5% of the national black vote. However, the GOP has made some inroads with hispanic voters. This is due in large part becuase Hispanics are generally socially conservative and have a very good hard work ethic. This represents the GOP's best shot at long term viability. This is why the President and other GOP leaders are working on some sort of amnesty package instead of accepting the security-only package passed by the more conservative House.

The issue is a little bit more complex with the Democratic Party. The blue-collar union portion of their base absolutely does not want amnesty for illegal immigrants because of the threat it poses to their job security. However, these voters are increasingly gravitating toward the Republican Party anyway so the DNC is essentially going to write them off as part of their base. Dick Morriss put it well when he siad that instead of trying to retain their current voters and convince others to join the party, they are going to replace those voters with new Mexican voters that still vote overwhelmingly for Democratic candidates. So in other words the white blue-collar portion of the Democratic base is going to be replaced by these newly legalized illegal immigrants who can now vote.

Also, they may not be able to vote yet but there are rather powerful interest organizations working on their behalf during an election year.

[soonerhubs]

Just out of curiosity did anyone else see the protestors carrying Mexican Flags. Umm... We want to stay here in America, but we still praise Mexico? BS

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

EXACTLY. Look at the trouble ICE has to go to in order to track down and detain small pockets of immigrants (like less than 100 at a time). And here the illegals have gone and rounded themselves up all neat and nice for ICE.This will NEVER happen. The dims drool over the prospect of making the illegals voters(illegal voters, of course), and the repubs are afraid of being ripped to shreds by the mainstream media for cracking down on these criminals. We are stuck with a wide open border policy until the next terror attack at least. Maybe even after that.:(

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that there will be no sincere attempt to either deport these illegals or prevent more from entering. The possibility of buying votes is just too great.

[SicEmBaylor]

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that there will be no sincere attempt to either deport these illegals or prevent more from entering. The possibility of buying votes is just too great.

ding ding ding

[jk the sooner fan]

there is a house bill currently to put a 700 mile fence along the border.....thats the one that gets my support

i find it interesting that sic em doenst want to make any of them tax payers simply because they're input wouldnt cover what we pay for them

this is true for the lower 10-20% of our own income tax bracket.....i read where the top 10% foots the bill for the lower 10-20.....numbers are fuzzy, but thats close

them putting something back into the system is better than ZERO..you can write all the assimilation requirements that please you into the bill, but deporting all of them is an assasinine task to even consider.....

[Harry Beanbag]

For several reasons,
In order for the Republican Party to have long term electoral viability they need to make inroads with one of the growing minority groups. Blacks are out because they are just too solid a voting block for the Democratic Party. A national Republican candidate would be doing well to get 5% of the national black vote. However, the GOP has made some inroads with hispanic voters. This is due in large part becuase Hispanics are generally socially conservative and have a very good hard work ethic. This represents the GOP's best shot at long term viability. This is why the President and other GOP leaders are working on some sort of amnesty package instead of accepting the security-only package passed by the more conservative House.

The issue is a little bit more complex with the Democratic Party. The blue-collar union portion of their base absolutely does not want amnesty for illegal immigrants because of the threat it poses to their job security. However, these voters are increasingly gravitating toward the Republican Party anyway so the DNC is essentially going to write them off as part of their base. Dick Morriss put it well when he siad that instead of trying to retain their current voters and convince others to join the party, they are going to replace those voters with new Mexican voters that still vote overwhelmingly for Democratic candidates. So in other words the white blue-collar portion of the Democratic base is going to be replaced by these newly legalized illegal immigrants who can now vote.

Also, they may not be able to vote yet but there are rather powerful interest organizations working on their behalf during an election year.


I ****ing hate politics. :mad: :mad: :mad:

[SicEmBaylor]

but deporting all of them is an assasinine task to even consider.....

It's an impossible task is what it is, however I stand by the principle of deporting illlegals whenever possible and requiring them to re-enter the country under some sort of guest-worker program.

I don't have a problem turning them into taxpayers either, but I don't think it's too much to ask to require them to have come here legally under a guest worker program. Any guest worker program though has to come after a major strengthening of border security.

And once they're here if they intend to stay on a more permanent basis they need to fulfill a number of assimilation requirements including learning to speak English.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

The dims are actively in process of painting the illegals as citizens of the world that we must absorb, and that THEY ARE VICTIMS. Who delivers the goods to victims better than the dim party? That seems to be their message and ongoing strategy.
Things are lining up for the next elections. Conservative America is in a state of smoldering disbelief(mostly that the repubs in govt. aren't doing anything about all that is happening).The repubs in govt. appear to be in a state of shock and are afraid to do ANYTHING.
I think these marches caught most of us by BIG surprise.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Laws are laws, not meant to be broken...

Legal does not equal illegal...

Start the process properly or face deportation...

[Tailwind]

If it's a misdemeanor to be here illegally, it should be a misdemeanor to shoot them. But only once each.

[mrowl]

every INS agent and school bus in the country should have been in downtown dallas last Sunday checking ID's. I would have chipped in for gas money.

[JohnnyMack]

You wanna live here? Fine. Do these two things:

1. Pay taxes like the rest of us.

2. Speak English like the rest of us.

[Tailwind]

Flagstaff too. Our protest was led by a jackass who works where I do. He has dual citizenship, owns property here(two duplexes and a moblie home and a house) and in Mexico (2 ranches). He makes extra money (I have heard) buy getting falsified documants to his mexican compatriots. I would like to have him shot. I am ****ed!

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

All this while the repub politicians(POTUS included)sit there stunned, with their lower jaws hanging open. The dims saying "WOW, lookit what's come our way-new entitlement voters who will certainly choose us dims, and possible recruits to the unions, whose numbers have been dwindling, and whose member dues go to dim coffers. SUCH A DEAL!"

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Well actually most of the Latino voters tend to vote conservative so that could be a hole in your Dims theory

[leavingthezoo]

The dims are actively in process of painting the illegals as citizens of the world that we must absorb, and that THEY ARE VICTIMS. Who delivers the goods to victims better than the dim party? That seems to be their message and ongoing strategy.
Things are lining up for the next elections. Conservative America is in a state of smoldering disbelief(mostly that the repubs in govt. aren't doing anything about all that is happening).The repubs in govt. appear to be in a state of shock and are afraid to do ANYTHING.
I think these marches caught most of us by BIG surprise.

dude, you do realise the "latino community" was largely pro-repub in the last election, don't you?

and... uh, you do realise that several republican representitives are pushing for amnesty as much as anybody.

and you do realise that some "dims" (i think that's your attempt at wit?) want borders secured, without granting amnesty to people who are willingly breaking the law? [/raises hand]

or do you just enjoy closing your eyes and swinging? :D

[leavingthezoo]

hmmm. gandalf beat me to the partial punch.

[TopDaugIn2000]

word has it that our mexican employees are all headed to a protest in OKC on May 1. we should just shut down. No one will be left in production.


and that will probably be right smack in the middle of our latest Body Armor contract. "NO! YOU CAN'T GO PROTEST....WE NEED YOU TO MAKE ARMOR TO PROTECT THE AMERICAN SOLDIERS!!!!! WAIT!!!!!! COME BAAAAAAAAAAACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Yours was much more elegant ;)

[Harry Beanbag]

word has it that our mexican employees are all headed to a protest in OKC on May 1. we should just shut down. No one will be left in production.


and that will probably be right smack in the middle of our latest Body Armor contract. "NO! YOU CAN'T GO PROTEST....WE NEED YOU TO MAKE ARMOR TO PROTECT THE AMERICAN SOLDIERS!!!!! WAIT!!!!!! COME BAAAAAAAAAAACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


So I guess working in a manufacturing facility making body armor for American soldiers is one of those jobs that Americans are too good for and just won't do, huh?

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

I don't think you understand Harry!!! They took er jobs!!!!!!!

[olevetonahill]

Flagstaff too. Our protest was led by a jackass who works where I do. He has dual citizenship, owns property here(two duplexes and a moblie home and a house) and in Mexico (2 ranches). He makes extra money (I have heard) buy getting falsified documants to his mexican compatriots. I would like to have him shot. I am ****ed!
Whats it Pay ?
Hell I can have a "workin " vacation and meet you and Flag :cool:

[Harry Beanbag]

Whats it Pay ?
Hell I can have a "workin " vacation and meet you and Flag :cool:


I'll be up there this weekend if you need an extra hand.

[SicEmBaylor]

dude, you do realise the "latino community" was largely pro-repub in the last election, don't you?

and... uh, you do realise that several republican representitives are pushing for amnesty as much as anybody.

and you do realise that some "dims" (i think that's your attempt at wit?) want borders secured, without granting amnesty to people who are willingly breaking the law? [/raises hand]

or do you just enjoy closing your eyes and swinging? :D

:Sigh:

As I said earlier the GOP is making more inroads with the Latino community than other minorities, however they were never "laregely pro-republican" anywhere in the country including Texas. The best Bush did was at most 45% but I think it was probably more like 42%. That % also decreases as you work your way down the ticket. Bush is by far the most successful Republican at getting the Latino vote, however that hasn't translated into support for other Republican candidates at a comparable level.

[olevetonahill]

I'll be up there this weekend if you need an extra hand.
Reckon Flag an Tail will hire us ? hell Id do it for treefiddy and beer money:eek:

[Harry Beanbag]

Reckon Flag an Tail will hire us ? hell Id do it for treefiddy and beer money:eek:


Sounds reasonable.

[olevetonahill]

Sounds reasonable.
No peems yet we may have to go lower on the price , but Im sticking to the beer Money ;)

[TopDaugIn2000]

So I guess working in a manufacturing facility making body armor for American soldiers is one of those jobs that Americans are too good for and just won't do, huh?

about 90% of our production is either hispanic or penecolstal.

[jk the sooner fan]

if you have a government contract, i seriously doubt you have illegals working on it.......

[TopDaugIn2000]

no, ours are legal. apparently there were a few illegals several years ago but it got all straightened out.
they just wanna go protest anyway.

[usmc-sooner]

I still don't get it, they fled their country for a better life, now they protest ours? I just don't get it at all.

[Tailwind]

No peems yet we may have to go lower on the price , but Im sticking to the beer Money ;)
It doesn't pay any more than I make, which is why I suspect him having other paying interests. He's our breakfast cook....oh, so nice to the guests faces, but would stab anyof them in the back if they turned it on him.

[Tailwind]

I'll be up there this weekend if you need an extra hand.
we could pro'ly party....if I didn't have to work. Again.:mad:

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

dude, you do realise the "latino community" was largely pro-repub in the last election, don't you?

and... uh, you do realise that several republican representitives are pushing for amnesty as much as anybody.

and you do realise that some "dims" (i think that's your attempt at wit?) want borders secured, without granting amnesty to people who are willingly breaking the law? [/raises hand]

or do you just enjoy closing your eyes and swinging? :DDude, I believe you are wrong about the Latinos. They mostly vote dim. I do realize that there are some Repubs pushing for amnesty. I don't think that's the right thing to do, regardless of party. I also realize that some dims are not wrong on every issue. I hope this helps your understanding of my opinions.Yes, you have one of the best avatars.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Well actually most of the Latino voters tend to vote conservative so that could be a hole in your Dims theoryActually, since most Latinos tend to vote dim(except for the Cuban immigrants in Fla., who know the sting of full-blown socialism), it sort of is why I offered the theory.

[olevetonahill]

It doesn't pay any more than I make, which is why I suspect him having other paying interests. He's our breakfast cook....oh, so nice to the guests faces, but would stab anyof them in the back if they turned it on him.
Is that a YES on the beer money ? or did we get under bid By some dayum Illegal Immigrant ? ;)

[Tear Down This Wall]

Here's my insight. My wife is Mexican. She immigrated here legally in the mid-90s. She got a visa legally. She jumped through all the beaurocratic hoops to get a green card legally. Legal immigrations is possible. But now, p*ssy-whipped Sentors on both sides of the isle want to give people who were sneaking across the border illegally the same opportunity she worked and waited to receive.

The weekend demostrations made her sick. She'll tell you herself, as she's told me, the Mexican immigrants problem isn't America's immigration policy, it's the Mexican government flat indifference to the plight of its own poor. They sit back while their poor stream across our border illegally.

Unlike my wife, I don't simply blame Mexico. They are only one of the players. The remaining cast in the whole mess is comprised of American employers who want cheap labor and the American labor unions who drove wages up too high in the manufacturing sector. Throw in gutless American politicians of all stripe and you've got the whole kit and kaboodle of the problem right there.

F'em all. The Mexican government...the American government...American employers of illegals...and American unions. None of them have the sense of a goat. While they hem and haw, my health insurance bill rises from the cost of covering the impoverished immigrants. And, property taxes rise as the school districts around here in Dallas fall deeper into financial chaos as it is overwhelmed with non-English speaking kids.

It's the biggest cluster fork to come down the pike since the Cold War, and our politicians are about to do the legislative equivalent of a punt, just like they've done for decades with social security. We will revisit this issue again and again and again for decades to come until some generation of legislators is forced to really pass and enforce immigration laws.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

MRs. THA and I are saving our money to BIG time and shopping on May 1. That is supposedly the illegals don't buy nothin' day...

Interesting how it is also May Day and the #1 Socialists/Commie Holiday of the year!!!

True Colors....

[1stTimeCaller]

SI SE PUEDE!!!!
SI SE PUEDE!!!
SI SE PUEDE!!!

[SCOUT]

My question is how does this immigration bill affect immigrants from other countries. We have several people that work at my company that have been here legally for as many as 6 years while working through their green card process. Still others have been working here for years on renewable work visas. Will they be granted citizenship too or this only offered to workers with menial skills from Mexico?

[Tailwind]

Is that a YES on the beer money ? or did we get under bid By some dayum Illegal Immigrant ? ;)
First, what're we talkin' here? I'm a po folk. And there is NO CHANCE in hell that I'd hire an illegal for anything.:mad: :eek: :mad:

[Tear Down This Wall]

My question is how does this immigration bill affect immigrants from other countries. We have several people that work at my company that have been here legally for as many as 6 years while working through their green card process. Still others have been working here for years on renewable work visas. Will they be granted citizenship too or this only offered to workers with menial skills from Mexico?

This is another excellent topic. We are in the midst of a huge socioeconomic era change. This microchip era we live in is akin to living through the Industrial Revolution. Hispanics have the highest dropout rate in America. That means for decades to come, there will be tons of uneducated and undereducated people facing an increasingly technology-based workplace.

This wave of illegal immigrants is wholly different than any other we've had before. All immigration classes have worked hard. However, none have seemed to be as unable to fit into our education system well as the Mexican immigrant. For instance, the Korean and Vietnamese who came here in the 1970s also didn't speak our language. However, their children didn't soar to the top of the dropout list.

Granting unskilled, illegal immigrants the same path to American citizenship in the 21st Century as we grant those with excellent technological skills will do no more than guarantee us a larger welfare class.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

One interested in the upcoming gap in education should read or see the movie "Harrison Bergeron" by Kurt Vonnegut(sp) I know he's a political goof, but this movie is awesome, and eerily prophetic.