CIA seems to have had knowledge that Iraq's WMD were virtually nonexistent

[JohnnyMack]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11927856/

Talk about your shock and awe. Hussein's foreign minister tells the CIA that the WMD's might be a tad overstated but no one seems to pay attention. Oh well, I'm sure this'll be spun into him being untrustworthy and unreliable faster than Dick Cheney can shoot someone.

[usmc-sooner]

why don't you pm tuba and yall can have your political arguments via pm.

[BeetDigger]

Oh they're over there. It's just that we forgot where we planted them, what with all the sand and the wind.




Seriously, the Russians seemed to think that they had them too. They didn't agree that it was a good reason to invade them however.

[jk the sooner fan]

damn near the whole world thought they had the WMD's......if they didnt have them, they had many nations fooled

i've always believed that if they did exist, they were moved to syria before the war

who knows....there had to be some reason why the french, russians and the rest of the arab nations believed they had them

[OklahomaTuba]

oops..

Sabri said Iraq had stockpiled weapons and had "poison gas" left over from the first Gulf War.

I guess thats what he meant by "non-existent" WMD???

pfft.

[OklahomaTuba]

Funny the article didn't mention the 500 tons of enriched uranium we found in Iraq either.

Hmm...

[picasso]

that's funny. there's a new book out quoting Iraqi generals saying many thought they had them leading up to the U.S. invasion.

[OklahomaTuba]

that's funny. there's a new book out quoting Iraqi generals saying many thought they had them leading up to the U.S. invasion.

Also there are the new recordings with Saddam himself talking about them in 2000.

But its painfully obvious that Saddam, these other Iraqi generals, the world intel services just don't hold the cred that this heroic baathist whistleblower does.

Perhaps there is a REAL reason the CIA stopped listening to him???? :P

[Ike]

damn near the whole world thought they had the WMD's......if they didnt have them, they had many nations fooled

i've always believed that if they did exist, they were moved to syria before the war

who knows....there had to be some reason why the french, russians and the rest of the arab nations believed they had them


ya know, if I was a dictator who was hell bent on maintaing my grip on my own country through fear, and who didn't exactly get christmas cards from the dictators in surrounding countries, I'd probably be pretty focused on trying to get my hands on some of them WMD's. But in the meantime, if it turned out to be pretty difficult to actually get some of them, I'd probably also do everything in my power to make it look like I already had the WMD's, just to give my neighbors pause if they decided to get all uppity.


not that any of this has any relation to anything anywhere.

[usmc-sooner]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11927856/

Talk about your shock and awe. Hussein's foreign minister tells the CIA that the WMD's might be a tad overstated but no one seems to pay attention. Oh well, I'm sure this'll be spun into him being untrustworthy and unreliable faster than Dick Cheney can shoot someone.


Oh you're so condescending
Your gall is never ending
We don't want nothin', not a thing from you
Your life is trite and jaded
Boring and confiscated
If that's your best, your best won't do

[OklahomaTuba]

So, I think this shows the war was more than justified if you consider the weapons the this guy said Saddam had, and the support he was giving to AQ terrorist groups like this one (not to mention the dozen other reasons congress voted for)...


SADDAM HUSSEIN'S REGIME PROVIDED FINANCIAL support to Abu Sayyaf, the al Qaeda-linked jihadist group founded by Osama bin Laden's brother-in-law in the Philippines in the late 1990s, according to documents captured in postwar Iraq. An eight-page fax dated June 6, 2001, and sent from the Iraqi ambassador in Manila to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Baghdad, provides an update on Abu Sayyaf kidnappings and indicates that the Iraqi regime was providing the group with money to purchase weapons. The Iraqi regime suspended its support--temporarily, it seems--after high-profile kidnappings, including of Americans, focused international attention on the terrorist group.http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/011/990ieqmb.asp

[picasso]

I've got WMD right now. my brother's chili and some Bass ale.

[usmc-sooner]

I've got WMD right now. my brother's chili and some Bass ale.

JM thinks you're a liar, so please fart in his direction so he doesn't post articles for the next three years doubting the existance of your WMD's

[JohnnyMack]

Funny the article didn't mention the 500 tons of enriched uranium we found in Iraq either.

Hmm...

It was yellowcake. Unrefined yellowcake. Just so ya know.

[picasso]

JM thinks you're a liar, so please fart in his direction so he doesn't post articles for the next three years doubting the existance of your WMD's
there will be no farting. the secret of the secret....weapon, is to draw the enemy in and then pounce at the right moment. kinda like the Oglala did at the Fetterman massacre.
yep, it's straight to the can when the time is right.

[OklahomaTuba]

It was yellowcake. Unrefined yellowcake. Just so ya know.

and just so YOU know:


About 1.8 metric tons of "yellow cake" and 500 tons of unrefined uranium went missing as the Iraqis left Tuwaitha unattended during the war.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3009082.stm

[picasso]

I've read reports saying that Saddam had up to 25 fully loaded cans in his various palaces in Iraq. that's some serious stockpiling of WMD if you ask this warrior.

do they use curry you think?

[SCOUT]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11927856/

Talk about your shock and awe. Hussein's foreign minister tells the CIA that the WMD's might be a tad overstated but no one seems to pay attention. Oh well, I'm sure this'll be spun into him being untrustworthy and unreliable faster than Dick Cheney can shoot someone.

Saddam's top military advisor Georges Sada says the WMD's were moved to Syria via commericial airliners and truck conveys. he even goes so far as to give the names of the pilots. This happened during the year plus lead up to the invasion. It doesn't seem to be getting much traction in the media either. I am both in awe and shocked that something that significant is being largely ignored.

I guess the emphasis in reporting has been on hunting reports.

[picasso]

all I seem to be getting from the media is how many die each day and then pending civil war.
whatever happened to journalism and stories and stuff?;)

[Harry Beanbag]

Saddam's top military advisor Georges Sada says the WMD's were moved to Syria via commericial airliners and truck conveys. he even goes so far as to give the names of the pilots. This happened during the year plus lead up to the invasion. It doesn't seem to be getting much traction in the media either. I am both in awe and shocked that something that significant is being largely ignored.

I guess the emphasis in reporting has been on hunting reports.


That is most perplexing. The media refusing to go after that story with the same vigor as the hunting accident has the appearance of incompetence and/or bias,...if not treason.

[jeremy885]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11927856/

Talk about your shock and awe. Hussein's foreign minister tells the CIA that the WMD's might be a tad overstated but no one seems to pay attention. Oh well, I'm sure this'll be spun into him being untrustworthy and unreliable faster than Dick Cheney can shoot someone.

The contact was brokered by the French intelligence service, sources say. Intelligence sources say that in a New York hotel room, CIA officers met with an intermediary who represented Sabri. All discussions between Sabri and the CIA were conducted through a "cutout," or third party. Through the intermediary, intelligence sources say, the CIA paid Sabri more than $100,000 in what was, essentially, "good-faith money." And for his part, Sabri, again through the intermediary, relayed information about Saddam’s actual capabilities.

Since the French were the intial contact on this guy and they never had one on one talks with him, I would be doubtful too. They should have used him to find out where Saddam was before the war started and taken him out.

Did they ever figure out what went wrong with the air strike that started the war and why saddam wasn't there?

[slickdawg]

The real weapon of mass destruction is our own government.

Both parties are out of control, and PAC's/lobbyists/corporations really
run America.

[OklahomaTuba]

The real weapon of mass destruction is our own government.

Speaking of our mass destructive government, hows the hurricane rebuilding going?

[JohnnyMack]

Saddam's top military advisor Georges Sada says the WMD's were moved to Syria via commericial airliners and truck conveys. he even goes so far as to give the names of the pilots. This happened during the year plus lead up to the invasion. It doesn't seem to be getting much traction in the media either. I am both in awe and shocked that something that significant is being largely ignored.

I guess the emphasis in reporting has been on hunting reports.


"It is true that many nations believed that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. But much of the intelligence turned out to be wrong."

Who said that?

[jk the sooner fan]

probably george bush, but what else can he say? nothing's been found, and until something mysteriously poofs out of nowhere, you have to go on the assumption that the intelligence was wrong and say that

but realistically, the chance is greater that "something was out there"...

[OklahomaTuba]

but realistically, the chance is greater that "something was out there"...

Well, since saddam did use it on his own people, that would be a good possibility.

[JohnnyMack]

probably george bush, but what else can he say? nothing's been found, and until something mysteriously poofs out of nowhere, you have to go on the assumption that the intelligence was wrong and say that

but realistically, the chance is greater that "something was out there"...

I think my big problem with this hole mess is that W was dead set on going into Iraq no matter what. Come hell or high water he was going in. I believe (and this is just my opinion) that he made a colossal error in invading Iraq. The fact that one of his strongest arguments for invading Iraq was smoke and mirrors is offensive to me.

Hussein was a bad d00d. But there are lots of bad d00ds out there. We can't take 'em all out. Not our job. Not our problem.

[slickdawg]

Speaking of our mass destructive government, hows the hurricane rebuilding going?


Unfortunately, very slow. Many of the people that were flooded can't
get a straight answer from their local governments and FEMA on the
new flood elevations and the required height their homes must be at,
so they can't start rebuilding.

A co-worker broke down in my office yesterday, her place was 100%
destroyed, she and her husband and two teenagers have been living in a
travel trailer for almost six months. She's about to break, and that's
the hardest thing in the world to watch someone go through.

The latest numbers for Hancock County, MS

4,329,466 cubic yards of debris removed, estimated to be 59% of the
total amount of debris

8,698 FEMA trailers occupied

4,000 SBA loans approved (home and business) for $408,548,700

[jk the sooner fan]

i have an opinion, i've shared it before, i'll just keep it to myself at this point.....really no sense in it

[OklahomaTuba]

Hussein was a bad d00d. But there are lots of bad d00ds out there. We can't take 'em all out. Not our job. Not our problem.

Appeasement is a great thing.

I guess the next country that supports terrorism, has weapons and breaks a cease-fire with the US should just be ignored huh?

Chamberlain would be proud of you.

[slickdawg]

Well, since saddam did use it on his own people, that would be a good possibility.

That is a fact - he certainly had WMD's, and very likely wanted more if
he did not have them.

Another fact is that over 90% of the house and senate, both parties,
fully agreed that, based on the intelligence, Iraq had WMD's and they
were seeking more. This isn't a single party or person problem, it's a total
failure in the intelligence community.

We became too reliant on satellite technology, and nothing beats good
information from the ground.

Example? Right before the war started, we missed, by an hour or less, killing Saddam with a few cruise missles. No satellite told us where he was,
good ground intelligence did.


a few cruise missles

[OklahomaTuba]

Unfortunately, very slow. Many of the people that were flooded can't
get a straight answer from their local governments and FEMA on the
new flood elevations and the required height their homes must be at,
so they can't start rebuilding.

A co-worker broke down in my office yesterday, her place was 100%
destroyed, she and her husband and two teenagers have been living in a
travel trailer for almost six months. She's about to break, and that's
the hardest thing in the world to watch someone go through.

The latest numbers for Hancock County, MS

4,329,466 cubic yards of debris removed, estimated to be 59% of the
total amount of debris

8,698 FEMA trailers occupied

4,000 SBA loans approved (home and business) for $408,548,700

I can't imagine whats going on down there. Simply amazing. Hope something gets going soon.

[OklahomaTuba]

That is a fact - he certainly had WMD's, and very likely wanted more if
he did not have them.

Another fact is that over 90% of the house and senate, both parties,
fully agreed that, based on the intelligence, Iraq had WMD's and they
were seeking more. This isn't a single party or person problem, it's a total
failure in the intelligence community.

We became too reliant on satellite technology, and nothing beats good
information from the ground.

Example? Right before the war started, we missed, by an hour or less, killing Saddam with a few cruise missles. No satellite told us where he was,
good ground intelligence did.


a few cruise missles

No kidding, I agree with that 100%.

Hopefully thats being fixed.

[slickdawg]

I can't imagine whats going on down there. Simply amazing. Hope something gets going soon.

On behalf of all of us here, thank you. It's been surreal and extremely taxing
on everyone here.

I can't say how proud I am of the help from individuals and church organizations. There are countless volunteers that are coming in for
one week periods to help people clean up and try to rebuild.

And just when I was about to give up on the generation of kids in college
these days, they stepped up big time. There have been hundreds of
kids that came here for spring break, slept in tents, and worked
their butts off helping people. One group of about 20 came
from the U of Wyoming - a 31 hour drive. I applaud all these kids as well.

[JohnnyMack]

Appeasement is a great thing.

I guess the next country that supports terrorism, has weapons and breaks a cease-fire with the US should just be ignored huh?

Chamberlain would be proud of you.

Based on this attitude, why aren't we waging a land war with Iran right now? Why haven't we dropped some payload on Syria? Why didn't we send a Tomahawk into the Saudi royal palace after 09/11?

[jk the sooner fan]

Based on this attitude, why aren't we waging a land war with Iran right now? Why haven't we dropped some payload on Syria? Why didn't we send a Tomahawk into the Saudi royal palace after 09/11?

my guess is that its because they didnt break a cease fire with us......read exactly what he wrote, not just some of it

[JohnnyMack]

my guess is that its because they didnt break a cease fire with us......read exactly what he wrote, not just some of it

Wait, but we didn't go to war with Iraq because they broke a cease fire, it was the WMD's right? But it's gotta be all three?

Weird litmus test.

[OklahomaTuba]

Based on this attitude, why aren't we waging a land war with Iran right now? Why haven't we dropped some payload on Syria? Why didn't we send a Tomahawk into the Saudi royal palace after 09/11?

Common sense should answer that for you.

[OklahomaTuba]

Wait, but we didn't go to war with Iraq because they broke a cease fire, it was the WMD's right?

Ever read the authorization to go to war that congress voted on?

[OklahomaTuba]

Wait, but we didn't go to war with Iraq because they broke a cease fire, it was the WMD's right? But it's gotta be all three?

Weird litmus test.

I think it explains a lot about your thinking when another nation breaks a cease-fire and you call that a "wierd litmus test".

[JohnnyMack]

Common sense should answer that for you.

Iran: because it would make Iraq look like a picnic with my grandmother. We can't even stabilize Iraq, Iran would be a lot of fun. :rolleyes:

Saudi Arabia: because the Bush family is in bed with the Saudi royal family.

Syria: no strategic advantage. not enough oil.

[JohnnyMack]

I think it explains a lot about your thinking when another nation breaks a cease-fire and you call that a "wierd litmus test".

I think it explains a lot about your thinking that you think we invaded Iraq because they broke a cease-fire.

[Harry Beanbag]

Iran: because it would make Iraq look like a picnic with my grandmother. We can't even stabilize Iraq, Iran would be a lot of fun. :rolleyes:

Saudi Arabia: because the Bush family is in bed with the Saudi royal family.

Syria: no strategic advantage. not enough oil.


Damn, you must have a kool-aid IV.

[OklahomaTuba]

Just a FYI, since you obviously haven't bothered to read this before JM:


The Resolution cited several factors to justify a war:

-Iraq's noncompliance with the conditions of the 1991 cease fire
-Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, and programs to develop such weapons, posed a "threat to the national security of the United States and international peace and security in the Persian Gulf region"
-Iraq's "brutal repression of its civilian population"
-Iraq's "capability and willingness to use weapons of mass destruction against other nations and its own people"
-Iraq's hostility towards the United States as demonstrated by the 1993 assassination attempt of former President George H. W. Bush, and firing on coalition aircraft enforcing the no-fly zones following the 1991 Gulf War
-Iraq's alleged connection to terrorist groups including Al Qaeda
Fear that Iraq would provide weapons of mass destruction to terrorists for use against the United States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Resolution_to_Authorize_the_Use_of_United_St ates_Armed_Forces_Against_Iraq

So I guess Iran, Syria and Saudi has done all of this?

Oh, thats right, you actually believe that "war for oil" BS Micheal Moore feeds you.

[JohnnyMack]

Damn, you must have a kool-aid IV.

What part of that post didn't work for you?

[OklahomaTuba]

Here is some more good reading JM.

The Iraq Liberation Act
October 31, 1998

STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT

THE WHITE HOUSE

Office of the Press Secretary

For Immediate Release

October 31, 1998

STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT

Today I am signing into law H.R. 4655, the "Iraq Liberation Act of 1998." This Act makes clear that it is the sense of the Congress that the United States should support those elements of the Iraqi opposition that advocate a very different future for Iraq than the bitter reality of internal repression and external aggression that the current regime in Baghdad now offers.

Let me be clear on what the U.S. objectives are: The United States wants Iraq to rejoin the family of nations as a freedom-loving and law-abiding member. This is in our interest and that of our allies within the region.

The United States favors an Iraq that offers its people freedom at home. I categorically reject arguments that this is unattainable due to Iraq's history or its ethnic or sectarian make-up. Iraqis deserve and desire freedom like everyone else. The United States looks forward to a democratically supported regime that would permit us to enter into a dialogue leading to the reintegration of Iraq into normal international life.

My Administration has pursued, and will continue to pursue, these objectives through active application of all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions. The evidence is overwhelming that such changes will not happen under the current Iraq leadership.

In the meantime, while the United States continues to look to the Security Council's efforts to keep the current regime's behavior in check, we look forward to new leadership in Iraq that has the support of the Iraqi people. The United States is providing support to opposition groups from all sectors of the Iraqi community that could lead to a popularly supported government.

On October 21, 1998, I signed into law the Omnibus Consolidated and Emergency Supplemental Appropriations Act, 1999, which made $8 million available for assistance to the Iraqi democratic opposition. This assistance is intended to help the democratic opposition unify, work together more effectively, and articulate the aspirations of the Iraqi people for a pluralistic, participa--tory political system that will include all of Iraq's diverse ethnic and religious groups. As required by the Emergency Supplemental Appropriations Act for FY 1998 (Public Law 105-174), the Department of State submitted a report to the Congress on plans to establish a program to support the democratic opposition. My Administration, as required by that statute, has also begun to implement a program to compile information regarding allegations of genocide, crimes against humanity, and war crimes by Iraq's current leaders as a step towards bringing to justice those directly responsible for such acts.

The Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 provides additional, discretionary authorities under which my Administration can act to further the objectives I outlined above. There are, of course, other important elements of U.S. policy. These include the maintenance of U.N. Security Council support efforts to eliminate Iraq's weapons and missile programs and economic sanctions that continue to deny the regime the means to reconstitute those threats to international peace and security. United States support for the Iraqi opposition will be carried out consistent with those policy objectives as well. Similarly, U.S. support must be attuned to what the opposition can effectively make use of as it develops over time. With those observations, I sign H.R. 4655 into law.

WILLIAM J. CLINTON

THE WHITE HOUSE,

October 31, 1998.

http://www.library.cornell.edu/colldev/mideast/libera.htm

Hmmm, I sure don't recall an Iran Liberation Act, or a Syrian Liberation Act, but maybe thats just me?

[Harry Beanbag]

What part of that post didn't work for you?


The part about Iran was fine. I've stated many times that our military is far too small for what is coming up down the road. Of course all the bickering and cat fighting by the politicians and the media has made it virtually impossible to sell any further advancement of the GWOT to the American people.

The parts about Saudi Arabia and Syria are just liberal talking points and propaganda.

[JohnnyMack]

The part about Iran was fine. I've stated many times that our military is far too small for what is coming up down the road. Of course all the bickering and cat fighting by the politicians and the media has made it virtually impossible to sell any further advancement of the GWOT to the American people.

The parts about Saudi Arabia and Syria are just liberal talking points and propaganda.

:P

[Harry Beanbag]

:P


Oh yeah? Well http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/images/icons/bsgtongue.gif!

[crawfish]

We had ample justification to invade Iraq, regardless of whether or not we should have.

[OklahomaTuba]

We had ample justification to invade Iraq, regardless of whether or not we should have.

The Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 set the stage.

9-11 just hurried it along.

Unfortunatly, I believe Clinton and Bush are wrong on Iraq not having a civil war.